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KokkinosVasilias
03-23-2007, 12:22 PM
Which teams will qualify?

PAO-Dynamo 85-15
CSKA-Macabbi 80-20
Malaga-Barcelona 40-60
Tau-Olympiakos 80-20

wardjdim
03-23-2007, 01:27 PM
If the games took place today?

CSKA-Maccabi 2-0 65%, 2-1 20%, 1-2 5%, 0-2 10% (85-15)
Tau-Olympiacos 2-0 60%, 2-1 25%, 1-2 5%, 0-2 10% (85-15)
Panathinaikos-Dynamo 2-0 45%, 2-1 35%, 1-2 5%,0-2 15% (80-20)
Unicaja-Barcelona 2-0 25%, 2-1 25%, 1-2 25%, 0-2 25% (50-50)

AssAsin
03-23-2007, 02:03 PM
Cska-Maccabi 2-0
Tau-Olympiakos 2-0
Panathinaikos-Dynamo 2-0
Unicaja-Barcelona 1-2

PHILIPeurobasket
03-23-2007, 04:08 PM
PAO vs. Dynamo 2:1
CSKA vs. Macabbi 2:1
Malaga vs. Barcelona 0:2
TAU vs. Olympiakos 1:2

Victorious
03-23-2007, 04:43 PM
PAO
TAU
CSKA

These are the favourites to go to the F4. Either Malaga or Barca can go through. Neither would be a surprise for me since Malaga has the home-court advantage.

There is always one surprise.
So one of the above three will be eliminated. Which is it?:D

turkishpower
03-23-2007, 06:07 PM
PAO vs. Dynamo 2:1
CSKA vs. Macabbi 2:1
Malaga vs. Barcelona 1:2
TAU vs. Olympiakos 2:0

I think the most predictable match-up is between TAU and Oly. I'm expecting a domination of TAU in both games.
TAU has better chances of qualifying than any other match-up. On the other hand, I'm expecting a Dynamo win in Moscow and a Maccabi win in Israel.
Barca should make it to the F4 but it won't be easy. The most unpredictable match-up...

SK rulez
03-23-2007, 06:23 PM
PAO vs Dynamo: 2-0, PAO is much stronger and Dynamo hasn't homecourt factor.
CSKA vs Maccabi: 2-1, Maccabi can win at home but will lose in Russia.
Malaga vs Barcelona: 1-2, Barça is stronger and i think that can win in Malaga. But if Malaga goes to F4, it cannot be a surprise.
Tau vs Oly: i really don't know, very very tough matchup, i expect the first 2 games dominated by home teams and a tough game-3 in Vitoria.

DanMajerle
03-23-2007, 06:34 PM
Panathinaikos- Dynamo 2-1 I think it will be a very close series. Both teams can play similar style, Ivkovic vs Obradovic on bench.

CSKA- Maccabi 2-0 Absolutely no chance for Maccabi.

Malaga- Barcelona 2-1 Really don't know, bot teams are absolutely unpredictable. As Malaga has Homecourt advantage I'll go for them.

Tau- Olympiakos 2-1 Tau is clearly the better team, but they often have some problems in Quarterfinals.

Levenspiel
03-23-2007, 06:46 PM
Panathinaikos - Dynamo 2-0

- Easiest to predict, imo. Two comfortable wins by PAO.

CSKA - Maccabi 2-0

- Other seemingly easy match-up.

Malaga - Barcelona 1-2

- Two antipathic teams. I hope neither can reach the final.

Tau - Olympiakos 2-1

- The most exciting series. It may sound weird but I think Oly has all the means to get the title this year. I'd say 51-49 to TAU.

FRANKY 13
03-23-2007, 06:59 PM
I don t know why but I have a strong feeling that Oly will go to the final 4:confused:

Seriously it doesn t come from anywhere , it can t be explained, since TAU is clearly the best team but i just don t know:confused:

And believe me I don t want to see 2 greek teams---sorry these 2 greek teams in the final 4--, I want to see basketball not war.

So go TAU:D

PHILIPeurobasket
03-23-2007, 07:13 PM
I see that we will have Pireus derby in next round - great :rolleyes: :)

Buducnost PG
03-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Tau-Oly

Tau is in a very good shape. Sergi Vidal is giving them a lot, especially in defense. They are better on every positon then Oly and have excelent players as backups. And at least they have greek Killer Serkan Erdogan.:D He is always on fire against greek teams.

rikhardur
03-23-2007, 07:24 PM
Panathinaikos vs Dynamo

CSKA vs Maccabi

Unicaja vs Barcelona (this one could be the other way around, with Unicaja you never know)

TAU vs Olympiacos

wardjdim
03-23-2007, 07:36 PM
[/I]TAU vs Olympiacos

Are you usually successful in your predictions? :D

rikhardur
03-23-2007, 07:42 PM
Are you usually successful in your predictions? :D
Damn it, I meant TAU :D Work is beginning to kill me :/ :p

Victorious
03-23-2007, 10:36 PM
Tau-Oly

Tau is in a very good shape. Sergi Vidal is giving them a lot, especially in defense. They are better on every positon then Oly and have excelent players as backups. And at least they have greek Killer Serkan Erdogan.:D He is always on fire against greek teams.

really?

I only remember him on fire in the third game against PAO last year. He also played a rather good game against the Greek NT in Japan, but there he lost some big shots in the end.

I wouldn't mind him being hot against Oly. I wouldn't like Oly and Pao to play against each other in the F4. Too much energy, mentally and phyically, will go into that game which will be bad for any of them in the final.
Remember the F4 in 1994 and 1995?

And this time it's in Athens.

wardjdim
03-23-2007, 10:44 PM
Oh c'mon guys. Tau is the clear cut favorite here. It will probably need more than Erdogan to be out of shape in order for them to lose to an unstable team like Olympiakos with two games in Vitoria..

Fanos
03-24-2007, 09:50 AM
Tau may be the sure favourite but don't underestimate Pinhi Gehrson and his team! We have some excellent players that on their good day, with some pressure from Pinhi can play excellently. For example Vassilopoulo, in my opinion is a top-3 defender in the league and he can lockdown any player of Tau. Big Sofo can lead Oly to the victory if the referees play str8 and not like our last fame with tau in spain. Also Alex Acker imo is one of the leagues greatest sf and we also have a constantly good player such as Zizic, and two great shooters/scorers like Pen and Domercant.

V@Roxe##13
03-24-2007, 11:31 AM
I am sure that OLY will be in the F4. I have a feeling that they will beat TAU.

jaka13
03-24-2007, 01:02 PM
Cska-Maccabi 2-0
Tau-Olympiakos 2-1
Panathinaikos-Dynamo 2-0
Unicaja-Barcelona 1-2

Markoishvili
03-24-2007, 03:05 PM
CSKA vs. MACCABI




Marquee Matchup: Matjaz Smodis vs. Nikola Vujcic
possibly two best inside-outside bigmens in Europe, Vujcic has more legacy and his numbers are somewhat superior to Smodis`s, but Matjaz is currently better player of two and for me a top bigmen in Europe at the moment - more polished than Scola. Slovenian averages modest 3.5 rebounds per game for a PF, but as he showed during last Final 4 he can be superb interior player too when his team needs him in that kind of role. CSKA plays terrific defense, and their guards do a great job at cleaning the glass, while bigmen box-out thier opponents that is the reason why Smodis`s, Andersen`s and Savrasenko`s rebound rate in not high. I dunno if we will see them going up straight againts each other, because Messina will be using Savrasenko a lot in this series. Alexey, who is big and physical abused Nikola during the Euroleague Final last year forcing him into 1 of 6 shooting and 4 turnovers. Another interesting matchup will be between two athletic forward Lior Eliyahu and David Andersen, who is slowly returning to the level he had before suffering an injury. CSKA has superior talent in the backcourt, Theo Papaloukas is a doctor of basketball for the likes of Will Bynum and Goran Jeretin. If Maccabi wants to have any chance, Tal Burstein and Yotam Halperin must be on top of thier game.

When it`s all said and done CSKA is the best team in Europe, well maybe not by far, but with significant edge over the Panathinaikos and Tau Ceramica, Green fans may not neccesaraly agree with me. Maccabi would need a huge individual effort from thier top guys to have any chance in this quarterfinal. In my opinion there will be no 3rd game, because the difference between these two teams is too big to overcame even in Nokia Arena. CSKA has more quality on its roster, they have better game directing, longer bench, play superior defense compared to Maccabi. The only way they can lose the game is if Maccabi shoots around 60% from the field.
PREDICTION: 2:0

PANATHINAIKOS vs. DYNAMO MOSCOW

Marquee matchup: Mike Batiste vs. Antonis Fotsis
While im not sold on Fotsis just yet, much heralded Greek talent seems to finally taking good use of his natural talents and delievering kind of effort everyone expected him to. Athletic and fundamentaly sound Fotsis will be defended by a shorter, but extremely strong Mike Batiste who is exactly kind of player that Fotsis had problems in the past with. Batiste will need to play good perimeter defense and take away Fotsis shot, while Antonis can put the ball on the floor he is not as prolific driving to the basket, as he is shooting the rock. For Dynamo to be competitive, thier frontcourt duo of Fotsis and Papadoupolos must stay on the floor for as long as possible. While PAO has more depth on its bench, their starting frontcourt is not as good as those of Dynamo. Since both Lazaros and Antonis played for PAO before in thier careers it will be interesting how will they react playing under pressure in OAKA arena. The big blow for Dynamo was the injury of all-around swingmen Travis Hansen, who was very important piece for them with his ability to defend and hit shots from the perimeter. His replacement Taquan Dean did a solid job, but is simply not on that level. Dynamo doesn`t have much speed and athleticism in their backcourt, thier team is slow in general and they will do anything possible to turn this series in ground-it-out slow paced affair. For those of you who love to bet, under is the safest option. Sure, PAO win is even safer, but you won`t get a good odd for that. Bojan Popovic was known to got into the foul-trouble before, and since he is Dynamo`s only real playmaker - Eddie Gill is more of a SG, and Khvostov is way to young, it will be extremely important for them to have him on the floor.

While i think PAO`s deeper bench, better backourt and home-court advantage will prevail, i think it will be in a 3 tightly contested games. Look for Sani Becirovic to be a very important man for Obradovic in these games.
PREDICTION: 2:1

TAU CERAMICA vs. OLYMPIACOS
Marquee matchup: Zoran Planinic vs. Alex Acker

Two of most versatile players in European basketball, Tau has an advantage, even if very important, Planinic can be replaced with one of thier superiorly talented swingmens in House, Rakocevic, Erdogan and Vidal, while Acker is indispensible for Olympiacos since he is thier only outside player besides Penn who can create his own shot. Luis Scola is major weapon for which Pini Gershon will have a hard time finding soultion, Sofoklis Schortsianitis is having extremely erratic season, and he is not a good defensive player to start with. Andrija Zizic is too slow to defend Scola, while Bouroussis has physical tools to counter Argentinian, but not neccesaraly the mental toughness to do it. Olympiacos will have to get some good post produciton from thier bigmens if they want to have a shot at qualifiying for the Final 4, honestly i don`t see Zizic and Bouroussis scoring a lot with Splitter, Scola and Peker around. Sofoklis is "secret" weapon of Gershon, but not a very dependable one, while he can put the points up in a hurry, he can also commit quick fouls and glue himself on the bench.

I think it will be a 3 games decision, with Olympiacos hardly earning thier home-court victory, while Tau Ceramica will celebrate relatively easy in Vittoria. Spaniards have more talented roster, better balance in the team, home-court advantage and are in a good momentum. Even with healthly and in-form Macijauskas i wouldn`t expect Pireus to advance, they will need to seriously invest in thier frontcourt to join European elite.
Prediction: 2:1

UNICAJA MALAGA vs. BARCELONA

Marquee matchup: Jiri Welsch vs. Juan Carlos Navarro

Czech has been a big disappointment for Unicaja this season, coming from the NBA as a former first round pick and even a starter during his stint with Boston Celtics, Welsch has been expected to be the first among evens and replace Jorge Garbajosa as a leader of this squad. That didn`t happen however, because Jiri is first and foremost a role player. In this series his main goal will be to limit Navarro`s effectivness and force him to take bad shots from perimeter. Welsch ceratinly has the ability to do it, his defensive potential and awareness are quite good. Unicaja has a considerable size advantage in thier backcourt....Barcelona plays with three small guards Jaka Lakovic, Navarro and Gianluca Basile, while Malaga can feature 6-foo-8 Carlos Jimenez at 3, and has reasonable tall guards like Vasileiadis and Berni Rodriguez. Still, i believe Barcelona has more quality, is shooting much better from downtown and has a tougher and stronger power under the boards. The return of 7-footer Mario Kasun will give them another man to send at Unicaja`s top post option Daniel Santiago. Fran Vazquez is certainly capable of stopping Portorican, and Jordi Trias has been a pleasent surprise and important man for Barca this season.

Even if Unicaja has home-court advantage, Barca is clear favorite in this matchup for me, if pretty sure they are capable of winning one of two games in Malaga. Unicaja is tough to predict though, they are capable of anything, but i just don`t see them making the Final 4 after eveything they gone through in this season.
PREDICTION: 1:2

lover
03-24-2007, 05:05 PM
CSKA-Maccabi 2-0
Tau-Olympiacos 2-0
Panathinaikos-Dynamo 2-1
Unicaja-Barcelona 0-2

Marble
03-24-2007, 05:16 PM
Tau - Oly 60% - 40%
Cska - Maccabi 70% - 30%
Pao - Dynamo 70% - 30%
Unicaja - Barca 49% -51%

gravity
03-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Panathinaikos - Dynamo Moskow 1 - 2
CSKA Moskow - Maccabi Tel Aviv 2 - 0
Unicaja Malaga - Barcelona 2 - 1
Tau Ceramica - Olympiakos 2 - 0

CG
03-24-2007, 06:59 PM
Cska-Maccabi 2-0.CSKA is surely better team and for me after the recent performances the favorite of the euroleague.Maccabi is not like last year.Easy series

Tau-Olympiakos TAU is better team than OLY.But i am not sure that will qualify so easily.They know each other very well after their match up early this season.So there are no secrets.I expect 3 games in this serie.TAU for me is the favorite.But maybe OLY has another opinion...

Panathinaikos-Dynamo PAO is more experience,better team,hasnt lost any signiicant game untill now.Better roster and bench.I think PAO will qualify.

Unicaja-Barcelona Barca has better team of course but who can bet with this UNICAJA.I am hoping that Barca will qualify in order to see a good F4 and not a silly semifinal.Two teams knows each other very well.No secrets at all.Barca is favorite.

elaj
03-24-2007, 10:10 PM
Panathinaikos - Dynamo Moscow 2 - 0 (Panathinaikos just needs to win, period.)

CSKA Moscow - Maccabi Tel-Aviv 2 - 1 (I think CSKA wont have an easy job, I expect Maccabi to win the game in Israel)

Unicaja Malaga - Barcelona 0 - 2 (it can be also other way around, you never know at this team from Malaga - I hope Jiri Welsch will show all his knowledge in this matchup, should be an interesting matchup)

Tau Ceramica - Olympiacos 2 - 1 (objective looking TAU is a better team, but I expect Olympiacos to win the game in Greece)

Digdis
03-25-2007, 09:13 AM
Pao-Dynamo 2-1: Pao is better, but Dynamo can snatch a game at home.

CSKA-Maccabi 2-0: CSKA is way better. 2 more games before this nightmarish season is over for Maccabi. :(

Malaga-Barcelona 1-2: Anyone's series. Barcelona is better, but Malaga is in good shape and has the home court advantage. Still think Barcelona should take it.

Tau-Oly 2-1: Tau is much better. Oly can only hope to win in its arena.

qiangdade
03-25-2007, 11:39 AM
Pao - Dynamo 2-0
Tau - Oly 2-0
Malaga - Barca 0-2
Cska - Maccabi 2-0

semis:

Pao - Tau 2
Cska - Barca 1

final:

Cska - Tau 1

Pennywise
03-26-2007, 04:18 PM
Panathinaikos- Dynamo 2-1 I think it will be a very close series. Both teams can play similar style, Ivkovic vs Obradovic on bench.

CSKA- Maccabi 2-0 Absolutely no chance for Maccabi.

Malaga- Barcelona 2-1 Really don't know, bot teams are absolutely unpredictable. As Malaga has Homecourt advantage I'll go for them.

Tau- Olympiakos 2-1 Tau is clearly the better team, but they often have some problems in Quarterfinals.

Do you know what are you talking about?? thay have never lost a quarter-final series (those are being played for the last two seasons).

Two years ago thay beated Bennetton (0-2) winning by 40 or so the first game in Treviso (Super-Luis) and then in a really close game in Vitoria...

But last year's was even more impressive, i guess everybody will remember it.

Besides (that's for superstitious and statistics fans), in 2001 (TAU's first impressive performance in the Euroleague) they beat Dino Radja's Olympiacos (0-2) in a really good series also. But that time Oly was the clear favourite, and this year things have changed

Gytaz
03-31-2007, 11:58 AM
PAO - Dynamo 80-20
CSKA - Macabbi 85-15
Malaga - Barcelona 49-51
Tau - Olympiakos 70-30

I'm rooting for Oly now. Hope to see Macas in Euroleague again...

ziv
03-31-2007, 01:39 PM
the head coach for our national football team said once (it was before a match against poland...) that "the team is like a bride on her wedding night. she knows she's gonna get nailed, she just doesn't know how much..." - playing against cska that kinda how i feel as a maccabi fan...

ArkadiosV2
03-31-2007, 04:15 PM
If Euroleague doesn't want dead fans in its hands they better knock out a Greek team from now.

T.W.Is.M.
03-31-2007, 06:17 PM
If Euroleague doesn't want dead fans in its hands they better knock out a Greek team from now.

I don't think the f4 has 2 do with having dead people.If these people wanna arrange a fight they will do it no matter what.But if u think that hosting the f4 could b a danger 4 fights and trouble, then ULEB should knock out both greek teams!That's the only way that nothing will happen during the f4.

C02
03-31-2007, 06:46 PM
The final 4 should be held in Greece as planned as long as the Greek side does not officially announce that they can't assure the fans' security. What happened is very unfortunate incident, but it's Greek internal matter which ULEB should not be involved in or concerned about.

Arik
04-02-2007, 12:41 PM
the head coach for our national football team said once (it was before a match against poland...) that "the team is like a bride on her wedding night. she knows she's gonna get nailed, she just doesn't know how much..." - playing against cska that kinda how i feel as a maccabi fan...

I really respect Shlomo Sharf, his sense of humor and CSKA, but IMHO we'll find tomorrow on the court in Moscow only 5 professional players in blue-red and the same number of professionals with yellow-blue jerseys (and I still don't speak about the game in Tel Aviv where MTA will receive the support of more than 10000 fans). :D
I understand we're underdogs in Moscow, but I expect from our professional players and from Neven to respect the club, Maccabi's fans and their occupation and not to become innocent bride with wide open legs. :)

CG
04-02-2007, 04:37 PM
to all Maccabi fans
even if it is way too difficult its not impossible,so trust to your team

rikhardur
04-02-2007, 07:13 PM
Tomorrow Unicaja vs Barcelona online broadcast might be available here (http://www.tv3.cat/su/tvc/tvcConditionalAccess.jsp?ALTERNATE=YES&ID_BACKUP=222222155&ID=222222255&QUALITY=B&FORMAT=WM).

KokkinosVasilias
04-02-2007, 07:18 PM
to all Maccabi fans
even if it is way too difficult its not impossible,so trust to your team


that goes for Dynamo fans as well... :D

Zachos
04-02-2007, 08:26 PM
Tau-Oly 70-30 (Tau being too uncontested a team in the latest games is something for the Basques to worry about)

Pao-Dynamo 80-20

CSKA-Maccabi 80-20 (20% to maccabi only because the same holds here)

Malaga-Barcelona 60-40

As a fan I hope both Greek teams pass, as a human being wish I they don't because more people will probably die. ((

Let the games begin!!!!!

PHILIPeurobasket
04-03-2007, 04:34 AM
We will have today a big day :) yeah! I wait only for these games !!! :rolleyes:

HIGHLANDER
04-03-2007, 06:24 AM
I am thinking of going to the Olympiakos game on Thurs, my dad is over from Scotland and i want to take him.
Does anyone think there will be trouble at the game? I would not want to give him an introduction to Euro ball with a mass fight:cool:

Calvin
04-03-2007, 07:21 AM
Compared to the Elite Eight and the NCAA tournament. The Euroleague tournament is much more exciting.

bolo
04-03-2007, 07:33 AM
I am thinking of going to the Olympiakos game on Thurs, my dad is over from Scotland and i want to take him.
Does anyone think there will be trouble at the game? I would not want to give him an introduction to Euro ball with a mass fight:cool:

Inside the Arena nothing will happen. Outside however it is best you'll be carefull. Take a cab to PFS.

each way
04-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Compared to the Elite Eight and the NCAA tournament. The Euroleague tournament is much more exciting.


Agree - this season's NCAA tournament was boring

ziv
04-03-2007, 11:56 AM
all of a suden marcus brown is coming back. it's a pity we don't have too many spaniards around here to fill us in about his actual condition. the malaga-barna series shouldn't be the best quality-wise but i'd say it seems like the most even one.
as for maccabi - i was kinda joking with the expression i mentioned. i see maccabi is the biggest underdog of this QF (bigger than dynamo) which takes the pressure of the team. nevertheless i excpect the players (and coach) to give it a try. maccabi has some qualities and it can hurt cska in some ways. i won't be dissapointed if we lose but at least i want to see a fight.

CG
04-03-2007, 12:37 PM
that goes for Dynamo fans as well... :D


yea it also goes there..but we all know in the end the best teams will qualify..
you can cheer by the way for Dynamo tonight

CG
04-03-2007, 12:39 PM
I am thinking of going to the Olympiakos game on Thurs, my dad is over from Scotland and i want to take him.
Does anyone think there will be trouble at the game? I would not want to give him an introduction to Euro ball with a mass fight:cool:


ask the red fans like kokkinosvasilias and bolo to tell you...

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 04:06 PM
It's gonna b a big bball day tonight and an even bigger one on Thursday.I hope we r gonna have 2 or 3 3-game series because it's very exciting if we have a knockout game 4 the qualification.
It's also nice 2 c Marcus Brown and Macijauskas returning even 4 a few minutes.Brown's return lifts Unicaja's chances(I considered Barcelona a favorite there, in fact I still do but with a 55-45 edge now).So does Macas' return 4 Olympiacos, although the real benefit 4 Oly is psychological only.
I can make no predictions about these matches even though there r favorites in 3 out of 4 series.I can't rule out Maccabi(no matter their condition they have a huge name) nor a team having Acker, Penn, Big Sofo and Macijauskas nor a team coached by Dusan Ivkovic!I know most people think none of these teams can make it, but it's a 3 game series, it's all decided in 10 days and one game can change everything.I just hope we will c 4 great matches tonight.

Markoishvili
04-03-2007, 04:12 PM
http://supertv.superonline.com/playsky.php

stream for CSKA-Maccabi; Tau Ceramica - Olympiacos

Buducnost PG
04-03-2007, 04:36 PM
No chance for Maccabi so far. 21-6 for CSKA.

Nikoo
04-03-2007, 04:37 PM
Its over, hit the showers:o

re5pectas
04-03-2007, 04:48 PM
come on Maccabi!!!! stop doing shit! fight them!!!!

PHILIPeurobasket
04-03-2007, 04:53 PM
36:16 after 18 minutes for CSKA :eek:

Maccabi 3/17 for 2 and 1/8 for 3 :eek:
CSKA 8/15 for 3

Victorious
04-03-2007, 05:11 PM
Maccabi has no chance to win the series. They are outperformed by CSKA. If they continue like this. The'yll brake down mentally and won't be able to rebound in two days.

Calvin
04-03-2007, 05:42 PM
CSKA is a superior team because their organization practices more. Even their cheerleaders. http://images.one.co.il/images/d/gg743607.jpg

Jan van Grabski
04-03-2007, 06:02 PM
guys, please, any link for Pao-Dynamo video live broadcast ? :(


P.S. Am i dreaminfck or Siskauskas is having a good day.
Popovic Bojan 3rd foul in 10 minutes :(

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 06:14 PM
game over in Athens too.26-11 for PAO in the 11.minute and Papadopoulos has already 3 fouls.of course PAO has 3/4 3p too...

C02
04-03-2007, 06:35 PM
http://supertv.superonline.com/playsky.php

stream for CSKA-Maccabi; Tau Ceramica - Olympiacos
I watch tau - oly, but you can barely see something on this stream :(

Levenspiel
04-03-2007, 06:42 PM
If you have the means, SkyTürk broadcasts TAU-Oly game.

Intense game in Baskonia. Both teams are shooting awful till now. Scola started terribly, but the worst is he wasted Prigioni's superb pass...

rikhardur
04-03-2007, 06:44 PM
guys, please, any link for Pao-Dynamo video live broadcast ? :(
Not available NaF :/


Well CSKA totally trashed Maccabi, no chances for them anymore. Indeed Maccabi this year is not *the* Maccabi.

HT: PAO 46 Dynamo 27

PHILIPeurobasket
04-03-2007, 06:46 PM
http://images.one.co.il/images/d/gg743607.jpg

Nice russian girls :rolleyes: ;)
But 2nd team from Moscow play bad basket today - 46:27 for PAO after 1st half...

C02
04-03-2007, 06:47 PM
If you have the means, SkyTürk broadcasts TAU-Oly game.

Intense game in Baskonia. Both teams are shooting awful till now. Scola started terribly, but the worst is he wasted Prigioni's superb pass...
This feed IS SkyTurk, it's just the feed is low quality, but better than nothing :rolleyes:

PHILIPeurobasket
04-03-2007, 06:49 PM
TAU vs. Olympiakos 13:9 after 7 minutes and Igor Rakocevic have 11 points :eek: :)

rikhardur
04-03-2007, 06:50 PM
It's quite watchable imo, lo-fi but it is.

C02
04-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Well, Rakocevic came to work :rolleyes:

sashikas
04-03-2007, 06:56 PM
20-12 after 1st quater in Vitoria.

Macijauskas is on court, but yet didn't have a chance to prove himself.

Markoishvili
04-03-2007, 07:32 PM
Barca is killing me, from +9 to -6 in a 3 and half minutes.

Victorious
04-03-2007, 07:32 PM
Still waiting for a surprise. CSKA PAO and TAU are doing their jobs. Seems to me that there is no surprise:confused: :confused:

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 07:34 PM
Final score in Athens:
PAO beats Dynamo 80-58.Exactly same score as CSKA-Maccabi!Let's c if Tau-Olympiacos finishes with this score too:p From what I hear(unfortunately I can't c the match) there seems no way out 4 Oly in Vitoria tonight:(

sashikas
04-03-2007, 07:36 PM
Rakočevič is on fire today 3pt - 4/4

rikhardur
04-03-2007, 07:40 PM
Final score in Athens:
PAO beats Dynamo 80-58.Exactly same score as CSKA-Maccabi!
Well that's one hell of a coincidence lol Incredible.

sashikas
04-03-2007, 07:59 PM
Fred House beats the buzzer of the third quater and the lead is increased to 19 points: 59:40

Macas have missed all threepoint shots so far (0/3).

sashikas
04-03-2007, 08:14 PM
This is too boring. Oly is hopeless. I'm swithching to PSV - FC Liverpool

C02
04-03-2007, 08:22 PM
So, it was not far from 3 identical scores. :D

woma
04-03-2007, 08:33 PM
Markoishvili - it took me a several days, but you did a really good job with yout Final8 preview, nice read.

There is not much I can write about CSKA-Maccabi game, basketball-wise it looked like some FIBA Europe team came to Moscow, I expected easily CSKA win, but maybe not so easily...

Just finished watching Unicaja vs Barcelona - Unicaja had probably their best game this season, they IMHO played at 95% of their potential, I doubt that they can repeat it and on the other side Barcelona should play much better in next 2 games. But Unicaja still can advance, having home court advantage and just being Unicaja - the most unpredictable team in Europe.

It was great to see Marcus Faison playing so well - since my interest in european basketball is more into middle level than high level players, I love to see "middle level" guy perform so well on the top european level. I always liked Faison in Charleroi, than he got seriously unjured, he didn't play so well in Koeln, but he had some good games for Unicaja. And today he was simply outstanding...his teammates were pretty damm good too :).

CG
04-03-2007, 08:43 PM
TAU,CSKA and PAO keep win the serius games untill now very easily.We are going to see one of the toughest F4 of all time.these 3 teams are outstanding.

CG
04-03-2007, 08:45 PM
i am expecting some chickens to go out of their holes...

bolo
04-03-2007, 08:46 PM
TsApoU as we say in Greece. :D
Score doesn't matter though. We still have two games. Unfortunately the witch-hunt against us Olympiacos fans has affected everyone. I don't know if there are going to be spectators in the second game.

Civilis
04-03-2007, 08:53 PM
My theory of Euroleague becoming more boring each year was proven 100 per cent tonight. So do you, guys, call this "play-offs" - all 4 games ending at +20 margin or so? :) I guess, next year we could start the Euroleague staight from Final Four to get something exciting happening :D

I am not happy with the direction EL is taking - the richest teams getting all the cake... :mad:

Although I enjoyed watching Tau Ceramica tonight, but.... only one Spanish player on the team.... come on! :o

Buducnost PG
04-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Although I enjoyed watching Tau Ceramica tonight, but.... only one Spanish player on the team.... come on!

Yes on spanish player in Vidal. But Scola and Splitter are Tau´s player which have gone through their basketball school.

CG
04-03-2007, 09:00 PM
My theory of Euroleague becoming more boring each year was proven 100 per cent tonight. So do you, guys, call this "play-offs" - all 4 games ending at +20 margin or so? :) I guess, next year we could start the Euroleague staight from Final Four to get something exciting happening :D

I am not happy with the direction EL is taking - the richest teams getting all the cake... :mad:

Although I enjoyed watching Tau Ceramica tonight, but.... only one Spanish player on the team.... come on! :o


agree with the last thing that you say.only one spanish in TAU.And also the same occur for CSKA.I think the european basketball have changed but the level has been increased so much.Unfortunately the other teams cannot follow but this is not the fault of the big ones but of the smaller team which have given the best players to the NBA and to top europeans teams only to take their presidents some cash...and some other make wrond decision on signings.so you must blame the smaller teams not the top.each easily for me to accuse Barca on football for destoying last year CL.We all knew last year that Barca was going to take it as she did.But they played so well that i loved their game.So then what can i say that Barca destroyed football and PAO (on soccer) has some kind of excuse?You decide stay where you are or take your chance and increase your performance?dont stay behind excuses.
but i am totally agree that its pity to see russians and spanish teams with one or two local players..one of the things OLY pays the last few years..

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 09:02 PM
I'd like 2 say that difference doesn't matter and the score is just 1-0, but the games themselves don't allow such conclusions.But when u play without a pg u can't do much.Fortunately I didn't c my team's game, but I think it was one of the worst games of the season.We need big improvement in our game 2 win on Thursday and return 2 Vitoria.But of course, nothing is over until the fat guy sings:p

CG
04-03-2007, 09:02 PM
Yes on spanish player in Vidal. But Scola and Splitter are Tau´s player which have gone through their basketball school.


so Tarlac,Tomic are products of OLY and Stojakovic products of PAOK .And all of them of Greek school...
be careful with your words

Civilis
04-03-2007, 09:14 PM
agree with the last thing that you say.only one spanish in TAU.And also the same occur for CSKA.I think the european basketball have changed but the level has been increased so much.Unfortunately the other teams cannot follow but this is not the fault of the big ones but of the smaller team which have given the best players to the NBA and to top europeans teams only to take their presidents some cash...and some other make wrond decision on signings.so you must blame the smaller teams not the top.each easily for me to accuse Barca on football for destoying last year CL.We all knew last year that Barca was going to take it as she did.But they played so well that i loved their game.So then what can i say that Barca destroyed football and PAO (on soccer) has some kind of excuse?You decide stay where you are or take your chance and increase your performance?dont stay behind excuses.
but i am totally agree that its pity to see russians and spanish teams with one or two local players..one of the things OLY pays the last few years..

come on, crazy green, you don't believe things you are saying, do you? :)

Do you imagine a club from minor European market with basketball tradition(Lithuania, Slovenia, Serbia) ever assembling the team worth 20 million euros and competing on a sustainable basis against the multimillionaire-owned clubs like CSKA or PAO or Maccabi or Barca? Even if they had the most wonderful management possible! The answer is one and clear - NO! :) So would you, please, stop declaring that it is small and "corrupt" clubs that should be blamed for the situation. We all know that the ULEB competition format favours the strong and provides almost nothing to the weak.

At least, I am starting to lose interest in Euroleague despite all the gourmet basketball Tau Ceramica provided us with tonight.

Buducnost PG
04-03-2007, 09:15 PM
so Tarlac,Tomic are products of OLY and Stojakovic products of PAOK .And all of them of Greek school...
be careful with your words

Stojakovic went to Greece with 16 so he is a product of PAOK. About Tarlac and Tomic i have no idea how old they were when they went to Greece. That what i want to say is that players like Stojakovic, Splitter and Scola are foreingers, but on the other side they are these players because PAOK and Tau trust in them and now benefit from them.

rikhardur
04-03-2007, 09:16 PM
Definitely weird game one for all of the teams. I sure hope that the next game will be more even, it's not fun like this, the margins are just too big right from the start and the games lose interest. Still, one thing has to be highlighted: Unicaja beat Barça by a 16-point margin :eek: :D Unicaja at its best, let's see how they behave in game two.

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 09:18 PM
Definitely weird game one for all of the teams. I sure hope that the next game will be more even, it's not fun like this, the margins are just too big right from the start and the games lose interest. Still, one thing has to be highlighted: Unicaja beat Barça by a 16-point margin :eek: :D Unicaja at its best, let's see how they behave in game two.

Probably they will lose by more than 16:p

rikhardur
04-03-2007, 09:20 PM
Probably they will lose by more than 16:p
:D Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all :p

bolo
04-03-2007, 09:20 PM
@ Civilis
Money makes the world go around. Show me one sport where this is not the fact. (except curling and snooker.. :D )
Unfortunately the big fish eats the little fish.

CG
04-03-2007, 09:21 PM
come on, crazy green, you don't believe things you are saying, do you? :)

Do you imagine a club from minor European market with basketball tradition(Lithuania, Slovenia, Serbia) ever assembling the team worth 20 million euros and competing on a sustainable basis against the multimillionaire-owned clubs like CSKA or PAO or Maccabi or Barca? Even if they had the most wonderful management possible! The answer is one and clear - NO! :) So would you, please, stop declaring that it is small and "corrupt" clubs that should be blamed for the situation. We all know that the ULEB competition format favours the strong and provides almost nothing to the weak.

At least, I am starting to lose interest in Euroleague despite all the gourmet basketball Tau Ceramica provided us with tonight.



i respect your opinion respect mine too
if there was not CSKA and TAU level the europe wouldnt beat NBA teams and wouldnt have such impressive performances as you saw tonight. but as i said its my opinion

C02
04-03-2007, 09:23 PM
My theory of Euroleague becoming more boring each year was proven 100 per cent tonight. So do you, guys, call this "play-offs" - all 4 games ending at +20 margin or so? :) I guess, next year we could start the Euroleague staight from Final Four to get something exciting happening :D

I am not happy with the direction EL is taking - the richest teams getting all the cake... :mad:

Although I enjoyed watching Tau Ceramica tonight, but.... only one Spanish player on the team.... come on! :o

I'd specifically talk about CSKA, with the monstrous budget they have, plus they are already established super-club. They could be winning the Euroleague for the next quite some number of years. That of course if nothing drastically changes in crazy Russia.

CG
04-03-2007, 09:24 PM
@ Civilis
Money makes the world go around. Show me one sport where this is not the fact. (except curling and snooker.. :D )
Unfortunately the big fish eats the little fish.


thats life too

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 09:31 PM
It may seem kind of irrelevant and it's no excuse 4 any team but is it a coincidence that in 3 of 4 games the winner shot better from 3p line?(in CSKA-Maccabi both teams shot with the same pct).I'm having this thought about 3p after seeing the NCAA final(with Florida shooting over 50% and winning and Ohio St shooting awfully).How many times did the team that shot better lose the game?

Civilis
04-03-2007, 09:34 PM
I've just come back from the future and these are the results from ULEB Euroleague TOP-8 from 2010 (don't tell the betting agencies!!! :D):

London "Towers-Chelsea" - Berlin "Alba-Die Hoopsmasters" 95-75
Moscow "CSKA" - Paris "Saint Germain-Racing" 65-55
Athens "Panathinaikos" - FC "Barcelona" 75-68
Roma "Virtus-Macaronni de la Casa" - Istanbul "Efesfenerulkertrabzonspor" 82-63

Besides, the latest ULEB marketing survey has revealed a dramatic rise in the consumption of potato chips and sales of T-shirts. Basketball performance is becoming GREAT FUN, though few spectators seem to know the rules of this crazy game that is being played on stage.

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 09:40 PM
I've just come back from the future and these are the results from ULEB Euroleague TOP-8 from 2010 (don't tell the betting agencies!!! :D):

London "Towers-Chelsea" - Berlin "Alba-Die Hoopsmasters" 95-75
Moscow "CSKA" - Paris "Saint Germain-Racing" 65-55
Athens "Panathinaikos" - FC "Barcelona" 75-68
Roma "Virtus-Macaronni de la Casa" - Istanbul "Efesfenerulkertrabzonspor" 82-63

Besides, the latest ULEB marketing survey has revealed a dramatic rise in the consumption of potato chips and sales of T-shirts. Basketball performance is becoming GREAT FUN, though few spectators seem to know the rules of this crazy game that is being played on stage.

I'm pretty sure this tournament will b a failure!Where is the team from Amsterdam???:D

Civilis
04-03-2007, 09:48 PM
I'm pretty sure this tournament will b a failure!Where is the team from Amsterdam???:D

Amsterdam "Ricoh Astronauts" have only reached Top-16 that year after losing the decisive match to Birmingham "Marsians", owned by Vladimir Pizdelin, the main fellow competitor to Roman Abramovich, owner of London "Towers-Chelsea". :D

T.W.Is.M.
04-03-2007, 09:58 PM
Amsterdam "Ricoh Astronauts" have only reached Top-16 that year after losing the decisive match to Birmingham "Marsians", owned by Vladimir Pizdelin, the main fellow competitor to Roman Abramovich, owner of London "Towers-Chelsea". :D

Don't tell me that the swedish champions were eliminated too because I will not watch this euroleague!I will prefer 2 watch the FIBA Eurocup Challenge where Apollon Limassol will surprise by beating ICBS(greek A2) in the final by 42-39!!:D

qiangdade
04-03-2007, 10:25 PM
Anyone noticed that pao used cheerleaders for the first time?? It was never accepted from the fans to have a cheerleading team so far, but it was pretty well accepted tonight and they did a nice job also. As for the game, watching the various happenings that the direction has prepared for the 15000 crowd was far more exciting than the game itself. The game was so easy and boring that even papanikolaou played over 18 minutes(!!!).

C02
04-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Anyone noticed that pao used cheerleaders for the first time?? It was never accepted from the fans to have a cheerleading team so far, but it was pretty well accepted tonight and they did a nice job also. As for the game, watching the various happenings that the direction has prepared for the 15000 crowd was far more exciting than the game itself. The game was so easy and boring that even papanikolaou played over 18 minutes(!!!).
What was the fan's problem with cheerleaders before :confused:

Joško Poljak Fan
04-03-2007, 11:24 PM
I agree that this were the most weak Top-8 game series of the last 10 years but that's because there are 3 incredibly strong teams this year. PAO, CSKA and TAU will give us some amazing games. :)
I think it's due to Pao, Tau and CSKA being strong as well as "strong but not as strong" cathegory of the teams dissapearing... just as much as Tau, Pao and CSKA improved Barca, Efes, Maccabi... got worse, while teams like Dynamo, Unicaja and Olympiakos aren't good enough to fill the gap

I agree with Civilis, when Fiba was in charge eventhough both Bologna's clubs, Pao, Oly or some others had just as big or even bigger advantage money wise like todays clubs have, teams continously managed to surprise achieving the final four (Efes in (?i think) 95, Olimpija, Asvel in 97, Partizan in 98, Žalgiris in 99), nevermind the surprises qualifying in quarterfinals (which team actually surprised getting among top8 since Uleb is in charge?? or even better: since top8 actually matters??)... with Uleb, all that's gone and I don't think the competition system is the only thing to blame for that... :mad:

qiangdade
04-04-2007, 12:29 AM
What was the fan's problem with cheerleaders before :confused:

The idea of having a cheerleading squad was never liked by the hardcore fans of pao. I think it was, cause back in the 90's oly introduced it first. Pao didn't have a mascot either till last year. But the cheerleaders today were great. I think they actually got some gymnastics athletes cause the routines they did were well organized and looked pretty good. And a couple of male cheerleaders did some breakdance stuff. I for one, liked the whole thing and i believe going to a pao game is getting better and better all the time.

qiangdade
04-04-2007, 12:46 AM
I think it's due to Pao, Tau and CSKA being strong as well as "strong but not as strong" cathegory of the teams dissapearing... just as much as Tau, Pao and CSKA improved Barca, Efes, Maccabi... got worse, while teams like Dynamo, Unicaja and Olympiakos aren't good enough to fill the gap

I agree with Civilis, when Fiba was in charge eventhough both Bologna's clubs, Pao, Oly or some others had just as big or even bigger advantage money wise like todays clubs have, teams continously managed to surprise achieving the final four (Efes in (?i think) 95, Olimpija, Asvel in 97, Partizan in 98, Žalgiris in 99), nevermind the surprises qualifying in quarterfinals (which team actually surprised getting among top8 since Uleb is in charge?? or even better: since top8 actually matters??)... with Uleb, all that's gone and I don't think the competition system is the only thing to blame for that... :mad:

I think the trend of nba teams getting all euro talent at a very young age is gonna pull back, leaving players to develop first in europe. That should bring a little more balance in the league. Also alot of teams are getting wiser puting a higher buy-out term in their talent signings.
It is true that the second level teams got weaker this year, but this could be an exception year. Teams like Barca, Real, Efes, Maccabi, Oly, Dynamo have all the means and money to be in the same level as Tau, Pao and Cska.
I am not defending ULEB here, I too believe they're doing a crappy job. All i am saying that we can at least have a descent top 8 round the years to come. And once again get on with the expansion, 3 russian teams are needed, places to be cut from italy and france, second team for lithuania(remember how many surprises rytas achieved last year?)...

It should kinda look like this:
4 spots spain
3 spots italy, greece, russia
2 spots lithuania, turkey, serbia, israel, croatia
1 spots slovenia, germany, france, poland.............(rest not important)

Uleb sucks while uefa does a great job...

C02
04-04-2007, 01:08 AM
The idea of having a cheerleading squad was never liked by the hardcore fans of pao. I think it was, cause back in the 90's oly introduced it first.
This is hilarious :)

PHILIPeurobasket
04-04-2007, 03:59 AM
Easy games for all home teams...this is TOP8 and all teams won games by +20 points WOW! Where is defence :confused:

Suprise for me is Barcelona, and Im also in little shock with Olympiakos...but I still hope that I will see Barca in F4 :rolleyes:

Civilis
04-04-2007, 06:07 AM
Don't tell me that the swedish champions were eliminated too because I will not watch this euroleague!I will prefer 2 watch the FIBA Eurocup Challenge where Apollon Limassol will surprise by beating ICBS(greek A2) in the final by 42-39!!:D

The Swedish champions from Stockholm "BVRS (Bloody Vikings Red Socks)" have failed the EL 2010 entirely by only defeating "Olympia" Ljulbljana and "Cibona" Zagreb (last place holders, their future participation in question). But next year (ie 2011) they aim as high as Final Four because my already mentioned Vladimir Pizdelin has some business/political interest in Sweden (related with Baltic energy network) and he is interested in giving extra 50 million euros from the potential 1 billion energy deal to the Stockholm club. The only problem - it may not be enough time to melt the ice in Stockholm "Globen arena" after the hockey matches... However, Bartomeu welcomed the new sponsor in emerging major European basketball market and said it would not be a problem :)

bolo
04-04-2007, 07:53 AM
What was the fan's problem with cheerleaders before :confused:

They like little boys instead. :)

CG
04-04-2007, 10:08 AM
Anyone noticed that pao used cheerleaders for the first time?? It was never accepted from the fans to have a cheerleading team so far, but it was pretty well accepted tonight and they did a nice job also. As for the game, watching the various happenings that the direction has prepared for the 15000 crowd was far more exciting than the game itself. The game was so easy and boring that even papanikolaou played over 18 minutes(!!!).


the truth is that we liked the dressing of the girls...and not the show itself:)so i dont think that we will see many times cherrleaders in the following games even if i would like to see this kind of entertainment.
PAO used almost for about 15-20 minutes Javtokas,Papanikolaou,Vujanic and some minutes Sakota.If everyone was playing their usual times the difference would be around 40!!!but even that i dont think that this is the real image of the two teams..

CG
04-04-2007, 10:19 AM
They like little boys instead. :)


exactly..
PAO fans never wanted cheerleaders cause the last 7 years we have enough entertainment with the red boys as my friend BOLO said.You see whenever we played with them we laugh a lot, made joks on sites and on cafes and even more things i dont have time to tell you.RED BOYS are indeed laughable and create great atmosphere.i suggest them also to CSKA.ALso after PAO which has celebrate so many times with them (customers=pelates (πελατες) ) this season some other teams continue this tradition and the entertainment like Efes :D (huge show especially when they are playing in SEF) and TAU of course which is becoming more party than a show.Also coach Messina participates on domestic and abroad parties with the super guest "coach Gershon".
So remember if RED BOYS are in your town YOU MUST GO THERE AND PARTY WITH THEM.They will make your day wonderful...

dedicated to BOLO:D

FRANKY 13
04-04-2007, 10:22 AM
I wonder why is every body disappointed by the big margins and blame ULEB.

I guess that in the WC where all the top 8 games finished with +20, it was FIBAs fault.

Come on guys get serious. Sometimes and some years, there are some teams that are that good, that nobody can reach them. Stuff like that happen. Perhaps it makes the top 8 boring, but we will probably have the best final 4 ever.

wardjdim
04-04-2007, 10:24 AM
The first quarter-final series proved what many of us were claiming before even the beginning of the season. It's a three-team deal this year and all the three heavy favorites (CSKA, Panathinaikos, Tau) have no opponent for the final four.

Now, does this mean that they will sweep their opponents in the second game? I say, without a doubt, yes. Maccabi, Dynamo and Olympiacos are not in a comparable level to that of the three powerhouses and, despite of the flashes of potential the Olympiacos showed in the regular season, Maccabi's strong tradition in such games and Dynamo's winning character, I don't see how these three teams are going to lose. I am not going into details concerning the players and coaches. The games are taking place tomorrow. I think all these series will be swept. And easily..

The real issue is always the fourth one. The only multi-dimensional match-up, the one with some interest and reason to talk for long. With Unicaja dominating the 2nd half and with even the long-injured Marcus Brown being a factor, there might not be a huge surprise if we see this scenario taking place, if the series move to a 3rd game in Malaga. I am writing "if", because all games here look so fragile and the Barcelona experience doesn't even guarantee a win at home tomorrow, although ULEB's favorite team is slightly favored for that game. Still, when it comes to team sacrifice and better ball movement, Unicaja has the edge and the timing right now and Barca will need to dominate the game rhythm and gain back the psychological advantage for the (potential) third game next week. If... :p

DanMajerle
04-04-2007, 10:30 AM
I also don't understand it. Teams like Efes or Maccabi got really weak, butit's the fault of their scouting departments in case of Efes (ego Americans) and problems with the war in case of Maccabi. Barcelona has good players, but Ivanovic does not manage to use this potential. Treviso had big management problems this season.
The reason some people are dissatisfied is that their lithuanian and serbian teams do no more compete for Euroleague Playoffs like in the 80's + 90's (the spots have been taken by western european teams now) and it's normal you lose some interest if your club is not that good anymore. But no need to say the whole Euroleague is boring. It may be boring for the fans from these countries, but in the 80's it was boring for fans from other countries;).

CG
04-04-2007, 10:37 AM
i think that also is a fault of UEFA by allowing MILAN,REAL,BARCA,CHELSEA,BAYERN,INTER,YEVENTUS,MAN UTD, of buying the best players in the world.because dont let PAO sign some of them.I think we must put salary cap in football and the top of it will be 1.000.000 euros in order to teams like Flamourtari, Edesaikos, Kamena Vourla, Union Berlin and York City can reach the final of CL and take it.Then i am sure we are going to see very anxious games :D
we have another saying in greece that goes

"things that fox cant reach, she makes them hooks" (osa den ftanei i alepou ta kanei kremastaria).

lets drop the level of world football in order to see our teams take the CL

CG
04-04-2007, 10:41 AM
I also don't understand it. Teams like Efes or Maccabi got really weak, butit's the fault of their scouting departments in case of Efes (ego Americans) and problems with the war in case of Maccabi. Barcelona has good players, but Ivanovic does not manage to use this potential. Treviso had big management problems this season.
The reason some people are dissatisfied is that their lithuanian and serbian teams do no more compete for Euroleague Playoffs like in the 80's + 90's (the spots have been taken by western european teams now) and it's normal you lose some interest if your club is not that good anymore. But no need to say the whole Euroleague is boring. It may be boring for the fans from these countries, but in the 80's it was boring for fans from other countries;).


exactly my friend
and another thing
ask their presidents how much money taken for the sale of the top ex players.Ask Zalgiris fans why they didnt keep their big team when some year ago won EC.Ask Partizan why was one step before top 8 this season (to be exactly one minute in the game against OLY) and their difference against Zalgiris (so many bad signings),Cibona (loosers), Olympia (nice team with so many economic problems)

jaka13
04-04-2007, 10:42 AM
the truth is that we liked the dressing of the girls...and not the show itself:)so i dont think that we will see many times cherrleaders in the following games even if i would like to see this kind of entertainment.
PAO used almost for about 15-20 minutes Javtokas,Papanikolaou,Vujanic and some minutes Sakota.If everyone was playing their usual times the difference would be around 40!!!but even that i dont think that this is the real image of the two teams..
+1.:D

wardjdim
04-04-2007, 11:07 AM
Every competition needs its heavy favorites and this is the only way to move onwards.

The point is that the less equipped and organized teams find a way to strengthen themselves via the system. And this strengthening is possible now and has been possible for many years.

What was Panathinaikos in the early 90s? Tau even later? Did they really exist in the basketball map of Europe? Was CSKA a top European team in the late 80s? Of course not.

Still, they learnt the system well, spent their money effectively and waited for many years before reaching the top.

They system allows improvement of the weak. They just need to have the smarts and the abilities to take advantage of the improvement at the right time...

Joško Poljak Fan
04-04-2007, 12:33 PM
Every competition needs its heavy favorites and this is the only way to move onwards.
true, the top teams are the ones setting up a new standards for the others... but I am not concerned with few teams dominating as much as they do, not even with unproportional budgets, I don't care if Žalgiris, Olimpija or Partizan aren't competitive, what I'm worried about is where exactly is Uleb headed for...
I don't care one bit about championsleague- it's basketball we're talking about here and some things just aren't comparable... like unproportional number of teams from each country that isn't exactly the case in CL, like it is in euroleague!?


They system allows improvement of the weak. They just need to have the smarts and the abilities to take advantage of the improvement at the right time...
improvement in which way exactly?


Ask Partizan why was one step before top 8 this season (to be exactly one minute in the game against OLY) and their difference against Zalgiris (so many bad signings),Cibona (loosers), Olympia (nice team with so many economic problems)
the difference was that Partizan was 4-24 in last two years in order to develope it's players ;) while they wouldn't be that much better (if even...) if Cibona would be healthy or if Olimpija would be on it's at least average last years financial level...

I don't wanna start about buyouts, but the picture is far from ideal, and wardjdim you out of all people here, should know that precisely...

qiangdade
04-04-2007, 01:15 PM
i think that also is a fault of UEFA by allowing MILAN,REAL,BARCA,CHELSEA,BAYERN,INTER,YEVENTUS,MAN UTD, of buying the best players in the world.because dont let PAO sign some of them.I think we must put salary cap in football and the top of it will be 1.000.000 euros in order to teams like Flamourtari, Edesaikos, Kamena Vourla, Union Berlin and York City can reach the final of CL and take it.Then i am sure we are going to see very anxious games :D


:rolleyes: :D :D

enypnio
04-04-2007, 01:41 PM
I hope that the seconds matches will be more intersting

Nikoo
04-04-2007, 02:33 PM
:rolleyes: :D :D
Its hard to play on Alte Forsterei:D The Iron FTW.

BTW they played in UEFA Cup and they werent embarrassed

wardjdim
04-04-2007, 02:55 PM
true, the top teams are the ones setting up a new standards for the others... but I am not concerned with few teams dominating as much as they do, not even with unproportional budgets, I don't care if Žalgiris, Olimpija or Partizan aren't competitive, what I'm worried about is where exactly is Uleb headed for...
I don't care one bit about championsleague- it's basketball we're talking about here and some things just aren't comparable... like unproportional number of teams from each country that isn't exactly the case in CL, like it is in euroleague!?
I am, indeed, against ULEB, when they try to separate themselves from the Champions League. A team needs to prove that it belongs somewhere and qualify for it. Contracts are a wrong mentality, long-term wise, but it secures early interest in the local market. Yet, if there is no progress in every single local league, then the number of teams of this country in the Euroleague just won't increase and ULEB's time/money investment in such markets will be gone.
The more the teams - with ULEB's support - press the local league and competition improvement, the more effort you will see coming from the rest of their local competitors as well.
ULEB just needs to press the teams from their side as well. Make the participation in the Euroleague and Uleb Cup look like a dream, so that the team owners and managers realize that it is all a matter of investment, marketing and mental coherence. If they understand that they will earn further money in the future, then they will invest. Otherwise they won't. It's that simple, indeed.


I don't wanna start about buyouts, but the picture is far from ideal, and wardjdim you out of all people here, should know that precisely...
Of course, it is far from ideal. But it's also far from the FIBA years as well.
FIBA is a non-dimensional organization. They are making no efforts, no step forwards. We can carefully claim here and now that they have never made any steps forward when it comes to club competitions. We won't be wrong there. ;)

ULEB, on the other hand, acts like a young teenager, who has a monopolistic mentality, hates the NBA, the Champions League (because they are both better organized and much older in existence), snubs FIBA, but, in the meantime, they have open-minded people in there and, given the money they have on their hands (which isn't much), they are doing a fairly good, step-by-step, professional job.

Hey, we can't expect miracles from a 7-year old organization. Unfortunately...

Buducnost PG
04-04-2007, 02:58 PM
the difference was that Partizan was 4-24 in last two years in order to develope it's players while they wouldn't be that much better (if even...) if Cibona would be healthy or if Olimpija would be on it's at least average last years financial level...

What are you talking? Partizan played by far the best basketball of the 3 teams from NLB-Leauge this season. Partizan had only one weak game in the first round and this was against Joventut in Badalona. Partizan could ended up 4th in the groupe, but Vujosevic knowed the result from the game in Roma (Roma-Cibona) and after Roma won with a big margin Partizan lost against Malaga, because Vujosevic wanted that Cibona not qualify for the Top16. Partizan played 7 games this season again Cibona and won 4 and one was on the road. Against your Olimpija they won 4 of 4 games. And Cibona had a healthy squad during the first round of the EL. Partizan also played some very good games on the road in the EL. Cibona was not able to win a single game on the road this year. The resulsts are more then clear in favour of Partizan. Olimpija had his problems with the money, but the budegt is still higher then the from Partizan. The advantage from Partizan this season against Olimpija and also Cibona was that they are clearly better at C/PF. Olimpija was never able to control the Frontcourtplayers from Partizan.

@crazy green
Partizan is not selling their playes because the president want to get some money. The situation is very difficult in wohle serbia and not only by the profesional sportclubs. Partizan have no real sponsor and in Serbia it is not allowed that privat persons buy sportclubs for now. So if Roman Abramovich wants to buy Partizan, he couldn´t do this. Partizan had the smallest budget with Cologne this season in the EL and for that they played a very good season and with some luck they could have reached the Quarterfinal. So after this season it is almost sure that Kosta Perovic will leave the team, because he would earn 500.000€ next season and this is to much. Partizan is not able to pay him this money. So he will leave the team. He will also leave, because the money which they will get from his transfer will be a part of the budget for the next season. Rumors say that he will go to the NBA and Partizan will get 500.000€+750.000€ (splitted in 250.000€ per year). So with 750.000€ Partizan will be able to pay the salaries of (Tepic, Pekovic, Borovnjak, Velickovic, Bozic, Bakic, Tripkovic and Bogdanovic). A player like Bozic gets only 40.000€ for the whole season and the salary from Borovnjak and Bakic is not higher then 60.000€.

qiangdade
04-04-2007, 03:50 PM
Its hard to play on Alte Forsterei:D The Iron FTW.

BTW they played in UEFA Cup and they werent embarrassed

At union it's not so much about results. It's a cult club in germany. Imagine that Nina Hagen sings their anthem:D. Only St. Pauli has reached a bigger cult status having fan clubs all over germany.

Sorry for the OT.

About Fiba and Uleb, the matter has been discussed in SO many threads so far, maybe we should merge all of them and make one called "All about Uleb and Fiba Euroleagues: discussion, suggestions, how to make it better, etc" or smth...

Joško Poljak Fan
04-04-2007, 03:53 PM
I agree I've putted too many "if's" in my statement... Partizan was definately a better team this season (results show it), but not by far (eventhough they've completely dominated on PF/C- true), situation could switch other way around either with Cibona keeping McCoullough, having healthy Morović and Vrbanc or Olimpija signing Jurak at the begining of the season and actually paying most of the players... again if's, but I wouldn't consider Partizan that dominant against both teams...
I don't want to lower the succes Partizan had- I'm glad they played on this level and hope they'll continue on with it, just wanted to say that developing players has lots of negative impacts on the teams game.

Regarding the budget, I am not aware of Koln's budget this season, but most of clubs in BBL are over 3 mio € (overall) and I doubt german team playing in euroleague and BBL could survive with less... anyway i'd be glad to hear what's happening from the germans.

I'm not really sure Olimpija had bigger budget than Partizan, at least i'm sure 2 seasons ago Partizan announced bigger budget, but afterall after our GM thought that he aquired some new sponsors for the total ammount of 1.5 mio €, the team got 300.000€ from those promises only... so no need to say the real budget isn't 3.5 mio € as planned... altogether increasing the debts to somewhere around 4 mio €. We'll see what the new management will do... and I wouldn't mind for switching the tax policy in sport either.

I thought Partizan would keep their players for a bit longer, but anyway if they don't keep Perovič they still have enough talented big man, to keep up the next season... at least I hope they'll get a bit more money than 750.000 $ for him, he is worth more than that...

elaj
04-04-2007, 04:17 PM
Olimpija had his problems with the money, but the budegt is still higher then the from Partizan.
That ofcourse it is not true. Union Olimpija is the team with the smallest budget in Euroleague.

Joško Poljak Fan
04-04-2007, 04:38 PM
I am, indeed, against ULEB, when they try to separate themselves from the Champions League. A team needs to prove that it belongs somewhere and qualify for it. Contracts are a wrong mentality, long-term wise, but it secures early interest in the local market.
...also contract is the only power in hands of Uleb, since without those contracts, how many non-spanish/italian teams would actually support them?
100% agreed on the CL part... euroleague isn't supposed to be a showcase, but a competition, and you need the best teams to create one...


Yet, if there is no progress in every single local league, then the number of teams of this country in the Euroleague just won't increase and ULEB's time/money investment in such markets will be gone.
doesn't look this way + Uleb doesn't have any sort of investment, other than offering an euroleague spot to a country, and considering that, they've done really badly managing their resources...


ULEB just needs to press the teams from their side as well. Make the participation in the Euroleague and Uleb Cup look like a dream, so that the team owners and managers realize that it is all a matter of investment, marketing and mental coherence. If they understand that they will earn further money in the future, then they will invest. Otherwise they won't. It's that simple, indeed.
they won't achieve anything with pressing on the teams, absolutely not with little power in their hands they can't even establish a 10.000 seated rule unless "the bigs" agree with that.
It's a matter of providing a healthy enviroment, it's not all matter of investment of the clubs, the spectacles, tense games, surprises is what make the competition more desireable... and except for the same teams appearing at F4 over and over again, Uleb has done nothing in that direction, I'd even dare to say in some countries they achieved a massive fall of interest for the euroleague, which is clearly showed by their TV income as well...



Of course, it is far from ideal. But it's also far from the FIBA years as well.
FIBA is a non-dimensional organization. They are making no efforts, no step forwards. We can carefully claim here and now that they have never made any steps forward when it comes to club competitions. We won't be wrong there. ;)
Knowing that Fiba sucks won't make me like Uleb instead... the only thing I like with Fiba is their demands towards Uleb, that would prevent Uleb from concentrating basketball in 13 (or preferable 10 countries) which would prevent Uleb from artificially expanding to London, Berlin and Paris ;)



ULEB, on the other hand, acts like a young teenager, who has a monopolistic mentality, hates the NBA, the Champions League (because they are both better organized and much older in existence), snubs FIBA, but, in the meantime, they have open-minded people in there and, given the money they have on their hands (which isn't much), they are doing a fairly good, step-by-step, professional job.

Hey, we can't expect miracles from a 7-year old organization. Unfortunately...
money in their hands? 15 mio € of annual budget= laughable
honestly I seriously doubt in their marketing skills... not expecting miracles, but let's say a 10% annual growth isn't a miracle but a mere sign of competence, while 0% annual growth actually is a miracle of it's own.
With such result in a company people get fired instantly, while I'd at least expect Uleb aknowledging their startegy was wrong and try a new one with new people...
Let them expand to London, Paris or Berlin- the results will be exactly the same as they are now, with one difference, they'll keep european club basketball on the same level, preventing it from grow... but still, have to be honest, they'll improve the percantage of genuine popcorn eaters among the overall euroleague attendance...

Or in the other case they can easily say, we want a close type league with Berlin, Koln, Paris, Lyon, Rome, Napoli, Milano, Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Istanbul, Moscow, Warshaw, Prague, Budapest, Moscow, Belgrade, Munchen, London, Manchester, Amsterdam and Bruxeless involved (with a great percentage of 95% of genuine popcorn eaters attending), so other teams can pack the luggage right now instead of developing the league for Uleb...
sorry I prefer f... fiba than Berlin, Paris and London taking wildcards.
If I'd like to see a show, popcorn and nice lookin jerseys to buy and a complete statistics coverage to help me argue on who is the better player I guess I don't have to wait for Uleb to establish it, I can immediately switch to NBA already...


sorry qiang for repeatedly bringing this thing up, but I don't think i'll stop with it in any near future, eventhough after a month you'll all get sick of my anti-uleb war...

FRANKY 13
04-04-2007, 05:36 PM
To involve big cities is a necessity matiz, like it or not.

You cant claim that you aim to compete the NBA , when some teams have less than a 5000 people attendance.

NBA is big, so you have to aim big if you want to compete. And don t tell me that we don t need to compete with tha nba, because closing the gap is the only way to keep at least some of the euro talent in europe.

I m sorry, I also like surprises and small teams competing with big ones but thats just not possible.
And nobody said that basket would be limited to 10 countries. Every single country in europe has at least one city with 1 M inhabitants.

And popcorn fans are also a necessity, if you want to fill a 10.000 seat arena. with only true basketball fans, you want fill even a 2500 seat arena( at least not in regular seaso games)

Joško Poljak Fan
04-04-2007, 06:29 PM
To involve big cities is a necessity matiz, like it or not.

dissagree, but I'd like to hear the reasons why do you think so...


You cant claim that you aim to compete the NBA , when some teams have less than a 5000 people attendance.
definately, that's why I supported that 10.000 seated arena rule from the begining... which still doesn't mean all the teams will be coming from the biggest cities in europe- as wardjdim said: increase the devotion and the wish for the title among people/club owners/sponsors etc.


NBA is big, so you have to aim big if you want to compete. And don t tell me that we don t need to compete with tha nba, because closing the gap is the only way to keep at least some of the euro talent in europe.
true, but if you think you can only achieve big by moving to big city where they couldn't care less if they have an euroleague team or not than imo you're wrong.
First create "the devotion" than sell it further and expand it to big markets if possible (which should btw. come along by itself, simply by progress), with such artificial clubs in euroleague, you aren't exactly improving the devotion anywhere, imo quite the opposite.
And a better competition system compared to a close-type league as NBA should help as well, with more people being interested in it...


I m sorry, I also like surprises and small teams competing with big ones but thats just not possible.
it was possible with Porto in CL (I'd like to give some more examples, but I admit you'll hardly find a person that pays less attention to CL than me ;)), it was damn possible in the old Fiba competition and yet somehow (I agree) unpossible with Uleb... and I don't accept it's because of budget differences...


And nobody said that basket would be limited to 10 countries. Every single country in europe has at least one city with 1 M inhabitants.
I know I like to exaggerate from time to time can't help myself, but Uleb seems to have some issues with it when Fiba demands at least 16 countries competing at highest level.
and if you have 10 countries + England +Sweden +Netherlands +Belgium +Norway +Danmark that doesn't exactly mean you've got 16 bball countries either...


And popcorn fans are also a necessity, if you want to fill a 10.000 seat arena. with only true basketball fans, you want fill even a 2500 seat arena( at least not in regular seaso games)
well the term popcorn fans might be a bit too easy, while if a team can't fill a 2500 seat arena, they've got nothing to seach for in basketball at highest level and can switch to curling as far as I am concerned. I don't demand 20.000 basketball fanatics either, but arena with people that actually care for basketball and won't go to a game only because Dion Glover once played in NBA or because the previous game both teams combined dunked for 65x times :eek: ... Uleb actually uses the term "devotion" as their moto...

wardjdim
04-04-2007, 06:34 PM
money in their hands? 15 mio € of annual budget= laughable
honestly I seriously doubt in their marketing skills... not expecting miracles, but let's say a 10% annual growth isn't a miracle but a mere sign of competence, while 0% annual growth actually is a miracle of it's own.
With such result in a company people get fired instantly, while I'd at least expect Uleb aknowledging their startegy was wrong and try a new one with new people...
You know my opinions in the past years, you have read some of them in the thread we started with qiang some months ago and also many people in ULEB know them.

Believe me, it is not easy for things to change. I would like to see basketball in Europe the way I prefer it, but this is impossible right now for various reasons which do not only have to do with money. Popularity of basketball in many European countries is simply too low to consider potential interest growth immediate, especially in the small markets that do not affect the general growth in some significant extent.

When it comes to the marketing part, I have main reasons to believe that ULEB is not doing the job the way they should be doing it. But this is my opinion, your opinion, qiang's opinion and anyone else's opinion, who is not working for ULEB and doesn't have the responsibility to get the job done. When you have a specific task to accomplish, when the money is not enough, when some of your people are not both marketing and basketball people and when you mainly talk to managers of the teams and you don't have a department talking to people outside those departments, then new ideas and its accomplishment is not coming smoothly and quickly. Sometimes it's tough to come at all..


Let them expand to London, Paris or Berlin- the results will be exactly the same as they are now, with one difference, they'll keep european club basketball on the same level, preventing it from grow... but still, have to be honest, they'll improve the percantage of genuine popcorn eaters among the overall euroleague attendance...

Or in the other case they can easily say, we want a close type league with Berlin, Koln, Paris, Lyon, Rome, Napoli, Milano, Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona, Lisbon, Athens, Istanbul, Moscow, Warshaw, Prague, Budapest, Moscow, Belgrade, Munchen, London, Manchester, Amsterdam and Bruxeless involved (with a great percentage of 95% of genuine popcorn eaters attending), so other teams can pack the luggage right now instead of developing the league for Uleb...
sorry I prefer f... fiba than Berlin, Paris and London taking wildcards.
If I'd like to see a show, popcorn and nice lookin jerseys to buy and a complete statistics coverage to help me argue on who is the better player I guess I don't have to wait for Uleb to establish it, I can immediately switch to NBA already...
I think they are close to taking this direction, but not in that extent. It is definite that they need to grow the European market, but they have realized that they cannot move without the big countries. When they have already started expanding to Asia (although I am of a different opinion about the fundamentals in these types of move), it is absolutely rational to believe that Europe is not enough for them.

What does "enough" mean for ULEB? It means that they want to sell the product outside today's boundaries, because the existing audience is simply limited. Now, when it comes to the "internal" boundaries, there is a need of attracting the uninterested so far markets of Berlin, Paris and especially London, but in the "external" ones, they may even have more success (some Chinese import players would be necessary here) with less attempts.

So, I answer with a yes. It is correct for ULEB to want to have the big countries into the game, even if they will need to sacrifice a number of contracts in the beginning, or even in cases that some traditional, but smaller markets become dissatisfied. The point of disagreement is not the contract existence for the teams of those cities, but how much time will they need to use these contracts for. If the contracts remain one for each city and there is no other system confirming the systematic and progressive rise of interest in those markets after some time, then we have again a tactical error in the marketing development of the product.


after a month you'll all get sick of my anti-uleb war...
We are all getting sick of your wars (buyouts, players in the NBA, anti-ULEB) :p from time to time, but it doesn't last long. :D

We like you again after some time ;)

rikhardur
04-04-2007, 07:04 PM
Tomorrow Olympiacos vs TAU and Dynamo vs PAO online broadcast might be available here (http://supertv.superonline.com/playsky.php) and Barça vs Unicaja here (http://www.tv3.cat/su/tvc/tvcConditionalAccess.jsp?ALTERNATE=YES&ID_BACKUP=222222155&ID=222222255&QUALITY=B&FORMAT=WM).

jaka13
04-04-2007, 08:56 PM
Guys cut it off..Don't write your autobiography here. Damn it!

CG
04-04-2007, 09:18 PM
Partizan is not selling their playes because the president want to get some money. The situation is very difficult in wohle serbia and not only by the profesional sportclubs. Partizan have no real sponsor and in Serbia it is not allowed that privat persons buy sportclubs for now. So if Roman Abramovich wants to buy Partizan, he couldn´t do this. Partizan had the smallest budget with Cologne this season in the EL and for that they played a very good season and with some luck they could have reached the Quarterfinal. So after this season it is almost sure that Kosta Perovic will leave the team, because he would earn 500.000€ next season and this is to much. Partizan is not able to pay him this money. So he will leave the team. He will also leave, because the money which they will get from his transfer will be a part of the budget for the next season. Rumors say that he will go to the NBA and Partizan will get 500.000€+750.000€ (splitted in 250.000€ per year). So with 750.000€ Partizan will be able to pay the salaries of (Tepic, Pekovic, Borovnjak, Velickovic, Bozic, Bakic, Tripkovic and Bogdanovic). A player like Bozic gets only 40.000€ for the whole season and the salary from Borovnjak and Bakic is not higher then 60.000€.



at least they try to keep their team in a good level again next year.thats why i like this team a lot.(the other reason is that we are brothers with them :) )for me the most improved team and the best surprise this year was PARTIZAN.So others must follow their path even if after 2 years they will not manage to keep most of them cause of economic problems.
Smaller teams must build their teams based on youth teams like it or not.

turkishpower
04-04-2007, 09:29 PM
I was surprised about the Unicaja-Barça game, but the others were as I expected. Barça should win the next game and the other 3 match-ups should be done by 2-0 tomorrow :)

Pennywise
04-05-2007, 12:17 PM
My theory of Euroleague becoming more boring each year was proven 100 per cent tonight. So do you, guys, call this "play-offs" - all 4 games ending at +20 margin or so? :) I guess, next year we could start the Euroleague staight from Final Four to get something exciting happening :D

I am not happy with the direction EL is taking - the richest teams getting all the cake... :mad:

Although I enjoyed watching Tau Ceramica tonight, but.... only one Spanish player on the team.... come on! :o


Yeah, you are right. Vidal is the only spanyard in Vitoria...well, but that is just part of TAU's politic.

First you have to consider that Vitoria is a small city (250.000 inh.) and that even if people loves basketball (it's of course sport Nş1 in the city), you won't find a lone brilliant player in the whole region. I know it's weird but it seems that youngsters' habilities for basketball are directly proportionall with club's management success.

Here comes my second point: TAU's reserve is worlwide (well, specially in southamerica). As they don't have good local players they look around many countries untill they find potential stars (Check this out, players like Nocioni, Garbajosa, Calderon, Scola, Splitter...were signed by TAU when they were less than 15 years, then came to Vitoria and played with TAU's inferior teams (except Scola). Most of them are not Spanish (but you have to admit they are TAU's and formed in Vitoria).

This leads me to my third point and the key of TAU's increasing success.
They search the whole word in to find such players, and of course they buy them cheap. You can't compare TAU's budget with that of PAO, CSKA, Oly... the city is much smaller, and the enterprise that represents Baskonia (original name), that is to say TAU CERAMICA, doesn't pay so much money for the publicity (they have always been together (first TAUGRES) and have a loyal relationship, but they don't help too much economically). Here is were impressive and admirable TAU's management takes part. Apart from the reserve (bringing young) thing. They have now a name in europe, and take advantage of it when it comes to sign young but not too known talents (Macijauskas, Teletovic, Prigioni...).
Tau is becoming bigger every year and this year they have given the definitive step in their assault to the euroleague, signing already recognized big talents such as Zoran or Rakocevic, and then completing the team with underdogs, hard workers and big defenders (Peker, Fred House).

It's gonna be as hard as ever (CSKA seems undefeatable, and pressure in Athens will also be unbearable), but this could be TAU's year, I really hope so.

I say that because probably next year, europe's best frontcourt player (:p ) will departure to the NBA.

jaka13
04-05-2007, 01:58 PM
Yeah, you are right. Vidal is the only spanyard in Vitoria...well, but that is just part of TAU's politic.

First you have to consider that Vitoria is a small city (250.000 inh.) and that even if people loves basketball (it's of course sport Nş1 in the city), you won't find a lone brilliant player in the whole region. I know it's weird but it seems that youngsters' habilities for basketball are directly proportionall with club's management success.

Here comes my second point: TAU's reserve is worlwide (well, specially in southamerica). As they don't have good local players they look around many countries untill they find potential stars (Check this out, players like Nocioni, Garbajosa, Calderon, Scola, Splitter...were signed by TAU when they were less than 15 years, then came to Vitoria and played with TAU's inferior teams (except Scola). Most of them are not Spanish (but you have to admit they are TAU's and formed in Vitoria).

This leads me to my third point and the key of TAU's increasing success.
They search the whole word in to find such players, and of course they buy them cheap. You can't compare TAU's budget with that of PAO, CSKA, Oly... the city is much smaller, and the enterprise that represents Baskonia (original name), that is to say TAU CERAMICA, doesn't pay so much money for the publicity (they have always been together (first TAUGRES) and have a loyal relationship, but they don't help too much economically). Here is were impressive and admirable TAU's management takes part. Apart from the reserve (bringing young) thing. They have now a name in europe, and take advantage of it when it comes to sign young but not too known talents (Macijauskas, Teletovic, Prigioni...).
Tau is becoming bigger every year and this year they have given the definitive step in their assault to the euroleague, signing already recognized big talents such as Zoran or Rakocevic, and then completing the team with underdogs, hard workers and big defenders (Peker, Fred House).

It's gonna be as hard as ever (CSKA seems undefeatable, and pressure in Athens will also be unbearable), but this could be TAU's year, I really hope so.

I say that because probably next year, europe's best frontcourt player (:p ) will departure to the NBA.
I couldn't agree more with you.
I like the politics of Baskonia (as you prefer:) ) and the way thay manage to emanate new talents in the basketball surface.

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 02:06 PM
it was possible with Porto in CL (I'd like to give some more examples, but I admit you'll hardly find a person that pays less attention to CL than me ;)), it was damn possible in the old Fiba competition and yet somehow (I agree) unpossible with Uleb... and I don't accept it's because of budget differences...



r u sure?I still don't know yesterday's scores:D

Joško Poljak Fan
04-05-2007, 02:14 PM
r u sure?I still don't know yesterday's scores:D
i'm not sure I've ever looked up for a CL scores this season :D
...if you ask me to name some teams participating... it would all be based on guessing...
I probably watched more snooker than CL this season- beat that :D

LuDux
04-05-2007, 02:14 PM
r u sure?I still don't know yesterday's scores:D

I still don't know who won last european club championship

qiangdade
04-05-2007, 03:04 PM
The last thing i remember from the CL is the final Real-Leverkusen. I i can't even remember what year it was;)

CG
04-05-2007, 03:17 PM
some minutes before the first game of the day...

Levenspiel
04-05-2007, 03:22 PM
Imo, you guys a bit overrating those 3 teams. They have been absolutely better than the rest this year, but there are at least 4-5 other clubs who might top them next year.


r u sure?I still don't know yesterday's scores:DI remember almost all games and scores in CL and in other major football tournaments that took place in the last 9-10 years, sometimes even earlier. I had a "world cup book" when I was a child, and I've learned all the champions, finalists, scoring leaders, etc. from 1930 on.

my motto: Watch bball, play football! :P

enypnio
04-05-2007, 03:30 PM
some minutes before the first game of the day...

I think that PAO not win very easy

Victorious
04-05-2007, 03:33 PM
The Skyturk stream is not working for me.I receive a blue image. They are not broadcasting.:confused:

Levenspiel
04-05-2007, 03:40 PM
The Skyturk stream is not working for me.I receive a blue image. They are not broadcasting.:confused: At the moment, no. And I have the same blue screen.

They'll broadcast Oly-TAU game. If you download the attached small program, and select Skytürk from the menu, you can watch it - when it works of course (probably the same stream, but quality is very good here - for me, at least).

Victorious
04-05-2007, 04:16 PM
At the moment, no. And I have the same blue screen.

They'll broadcast Oly-TAU game. If you download the attached small program, and select Skytürk from the menu, you can watch it - when it works of course (probably the same stream, but quality is very good here - for me, at least).

If the quality is better I'll take it.:)

CG
04-05-2007, 04:19 PM
I think that PAO not win very easy

untill now its an easy match for PAO.

Victorious
04-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Congrats!!!!!
PAO is in the Final Four.:) :) :) :)

jaka13
04-05-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeeeehawwwwww!!
We are the first team to reach the f4.:)

CG
04-05-2007, 05:23 PM
congratulations to both teams for reaching top8.they were deserved this.
PAO was just one level better and qualified very easily.I think from today performance CSKA must not be so sure for taking the cup...
SISKA is great great player.

turkishpower
04-05-2007, 05:24 PM
d@mn, it was so easy for PAO. Won't be that easy in F4 though :cool:

jaka13
04-05-2007, 05:36 PM
i think CSKA is already in the final.

Buducnost PG
04-05-2007, 05:39 PM
I agree I've putted too many "if's" in my statement... Partizan was definately a better team this season (results show it), but not by far (eventhough they've completely dominated on PF/C- true), situation could switch other way around either with Cibona keeping McCoullough, having healthy Morović and Vrbanc or Olimpija signing Jurak at the begining of the season and actually paying most of the players... again if's, but I wouldn't consider Partizan that dominant against both teams...
I don't want to lower the succes Partizan had- I'm glad they played on this level and hope they'll continue on with it, just wanted to say that developing players has lots of negative impacts on the teams game.

Regarding the budget, I am not aware of Koln's budget this season, but most of clubs in BBL are over 3 mio € (overall) and I doubt german team playing in euroleague and BBL could survive with less... anyway i'd be glad to hear what's happening from the germans.

I'm not really sure Olimpija had bigger budget than Partizan, at least i'm sure 2 seasons ago Partizan announced bigger budget, but afterall after our GM thought that he aquired some new sponsors for the total ammount of 1.5 mio €, the team got 300.000€ from those promises only... so no need to say the real budget isn't 3.5 mio € as planned... altogether increasing the debts to somewhere around 4 mio €. We'll see what the new management will do... and I wouldn't mind for switching the tax policy in sport either.

I thought Partizan would keep their players for a bit longer, but anyway if they don't keep Perovič they still have enough talented big man, to keep up the next season... at least I hope they'll get a bit more money than 750.000 $ for him, he is worth more than that...


Cibona replaced McCullgoh with Andrew Wisnewski and Wisnewski showed that he is a much better player then Jamal. Groan Vrbanc? Who is Goran Vrbanc? He came from Rijeka this season and was a nothing before. We can easily compare him to Boris Bakic which was also injured for a long time. And for Vedran Morovic they got Ivan Tomas. Perhaps Morovic is better, but not that much. Cibona was weaker then Partizan this year and we could see that the wohle season. For me Cibona has to change their players politic. They are a team of foreigners. The best players are Winsewksi (USA), Warren (USA), Wright (USA), Bader (HUN) and at least one from Croatia in Davor Kus. Yes a lot teams have foreigners in their team. But there is so much talent in Croatia and Cibona has nothing. They have the most money compared to all teams from ex-yugoslavia and the budget will get higher next season. The city Zagreb is the biggest sponsor of them as also from all other big clubs in Zagreb (Dinamo, Badel and Mladost). So if they would work better with their youth they would have great chances for the Quarterfinal in every year.

And about the budget from Partizan and Cologne. I read that very often on serbian sites this season. They were writing about the player budget there.

And if Perovic leaves Partizan will get 500.000 plus 750.000€.

Victorious
04-05-2007, 05:48 PM
At the moment, no. And I have the same blue screen.

They'll broadcast Oly-TAU game. If you download the attached small program, and select Skytürk from the menu, you can watch it - when it works of course (probably the same stream, but quality is very good here - for me, at least).

Still no stream.
Damn!:mad:

turkishpower
04-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Which team PAO will play in the F4? Pao-Unicaja/Barca?, Pao-CSKA or Pao-TAU? :confused:

Victorious
04-05-2007, 06:11 PM
they will play TAU

re5pectas
04-05-2007, 06:12 PM
on line games? Oly-Tau I see on tv, but others? :)

And, why I see emty seats in SEF?

Markoishvili
04-05-2007, 06:17 PM
Maccabi solid so far.

rikhardur
04-05-2007, 06:31 PM
HT: Olympiacos 41 TAU 44

Oly seems to be a different team today, as Maljković wisely pointed out yesterday.


@ re5pectas: Check a few posts back :p

sashikas
04-05-2007, 06:33 PM
on line games? Oly-Tau I see on tv, but others? :)

And, why I see emty seats in SEF?
Maccabi - CSKA is on Viasat Sport 3.

sashikas
04-05-2007, 06:35 PM
Oly-TAU 41-44. HT
Domercant cuts the lead with a 8,5 meter shot just before the half time buzzer. Splitter is unstoppable so far for TAU.

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 06:35 PM
i think CSKA is already in the final.
Don't be so fast - 35:25 to Maccabi after first half - and it's CSKA's luck it's only 10...
It's still open, mind you, but Maccabi looks solid...

Markoishvili
04-05-2007, 06:36 PM
Maccabi 35:25 CSKA halftime
Nikola Vujcic 8pts, 6rebs, 2ast; Oscar Torres 12pts, 7rebs, 2steals

CG
04-05-2007, 06:36 PM
d@mn, it was so easy for PAO. Won't be that easy in F4 though :cool:


do you have internet on Tobaccos islands?:p
are you going to watch the games of F4 from your new brand sofa?

ziv
04-05-2007, 06:37 PM
i'm certanily not sure maccabi will win this one (inspite of the double digit margin it has) but i sure does put on a fight. that all we - maccabi fans - were asking. after the pathetic performence on tuesday and with spahija's chair shaking like hell - this is what we needed. each and every player on the court is fighting (and cska missed some easy shoots).

CG
04-05-2007, 06:39 PM
nothing special from TAU untill now.OLY play no defence and with bad decisions on offence.
great performance from Maccabi...we will see if they are going to keep it..

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 06:41 PM
[QUOTE=re5pectas

And, why I see emty seats in SEF?[/QUOTE]

1)after a government decision the "organized" fans have been suspended, therefore Olympiacos could not provide them with tickets(officially).the organized fans took 4000 tickets per game
2)easter(great thursday)
3)disappointment by the team's performance in game 1

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 06:43 PM
nothing special from TAU untill now.OLY play no defence and with bad decisions on offence.
great performance from Maccabi...we will see if they are going to keep it..

I wouldn't call the defence bad.It's rather unstable though.The difference is:1st quarter TAU 1/7 3p, 2nd quarter 5/7 3p...Olympiacos keeps making to's and this explains the score so far.

ziv
04-05-2007, 06:58 PM
OMFG - lior elyahu just took over the 3rd quarter.

Markoishvili
04-05-2007, 07:05 PM
Maccabi definitely forcing game 3, +21 with 12minutes to go.

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 07:06 PM
55:35 to Maccabi end of 3rd half

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 07:10 PM
That's a Maccabi from the old. I can't believe CSKA's playing that bad !
They sure have very bad day from 3, but Maccabi playing killer defense...

ziv
04-05-2007, 07:10 PM
that would be a huge surprise if this series will be the only one to go to a third match - espcially after tuesday's game but even before the first game it was the series everyone thought is a no-match.

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 07:32 PM
68:56 To Maccabi!!! Final!

turkishpower
04-05-2007, 07:37 PM
do you have internet on Tobaccos islands?:p
are you going to watch the games of F4 from your new brand sofa?


lol :D

rikhardur
04-05-2007, 07:45 PM
Oly says bye:

Olympiacos 89 TAU 95 (Alex Acker 19 pts + 3 steals (Bourousis 13 rebs ) | Luis Scola 20 pts + 10 rebs + 3 steals (Splitter 18 pts + 9 rebs))

sashikas
04-05-2007, 07:45 PM
Oly-TAU 90:95

The last minute lasted i guess longer than 9 previous.

Domercant cut the lead with deep two, which was counted as thee-pointer with few seconds left 90:93. The comentator brought the idea, that the famous Maccabi-Žalgiris scenario could retake place, but Rakočevič unlike Giedrius Gustas scored both FTs, and TAU took well deserved win.

SHARP
04-05-2007, 07:47 PM
Super:)

Dookie
04-05-2007, 07:56 PM
The comentator brought the idea, that the famous Maccabi-Žalgiris scenario could retake place, but Rakočevič unlike Giedrius Gustas scored both FTs, and TAU took well deserved win.

:) :) :)

Thank god for D.Sharp.

;) ;)

ziv
04-05-2007, 08:04 PM
elyahu just humiliated the best pf of the EL this season - on both sides of the floor. this kid has done some amazing things in his first EL season.
beside him maccabi played a real intense game. in the likely event that maccabi will lost next week i suggest the f4 opponents of cska to take a good look at this game. maccabi contested every shoot, every rebound, it did some incredible job guarding papaloukas - mainly burstein and jeretin who took him off his balance in the first half. the game will probably be soon on sportbit, i recomend watching it.

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 08:11 PM
TAU was clearly better in the series and advanced logically and fairly.I have 2 congratulate them, but also I have 2 congratulate a great player on the losing side:Arvydas Macijauskas!He gave everything he could(and he could not do much because of his long-term absence).He was clearly unready 4 such a match, but he gave everything he had, he kept fighting till the last second and I can say he was better than many of his "ready" teammates.He made many turnovers, at some points he couldn't help the team, but he showed more passion and will than any other.The european season is not successful 4 my team, I c problems still unsolved in our game, but Macas' effort gives me hope 4 the future of the team.
I have a feeling TAU will win the EL this year!No matter what happens at game 3 in Moscow, no matter that they face PAO in Athens.I had that feeling before the q/f(with an if-clause, if they make it 2 the f4, they will win it all I thought).I consider PAO a better team than them, I think CSKA is even better, but I just believe it's their time.BTW, congratulations 2 Maccabi, no matter what happens in game 3, in my eyes they r a big team.
Unicaja shows us a familiar face:they lose again by 20 on the road:D
And again in all 4 games the team that shot better from 3p won the game!

rikhardur
04-05-2007, 08:19 PM
Unicaja made sure to keep being Unicaja :D:

Barcelona 80 Unicaja 58 (JC Navarro 25 pts (5/6 3pt) (Trias 11 pts + 6 rebs) | Marcus Faison & Carlos Cabezas 11 pts)

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 08:19 PM
According to EL site 56 points are new QF defense record:)
It will be hard next week, and CSKA will not return on their awful performance from 3 (4/24...), but at least I hope it will be close game.

ziv
04-05-2007, 08:22 PM
mmm... 80-58... sounds fimilar...

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 08:23 PM
According to EL site 56 points are new QF defense record:)
It will be hard next week, and CSKA will not return on their awful performance from 3 (4/24...), but at least I hope it will be close game.

I think it will but CSKA will probably win.Today it was the "law of Yad".
Barca-Unicaja 80-58???Again 80-58????For the third time in 8 matches!!!

rikhardur
04-05-2007, 08:24 PM
Barca-Unicaja 80-58???Again 80-58????For the third time in 8 matches!!!
Hey I hadn't noticed that, what a coincidence...

sashikas
04-05-2007, 08:25 PM
Barcelona 80 Unicaja 58
This result is somewhat cursed. Third time in 8 quaterfinal games...

AssAsin
04-05-2007, 08:34 PM
I am sure that OLY will be in the F4. I have a feeling that they will beat TAU.
Most favorite question of this forum:What do you smoke??:D

MikeMaccabiFan
04-05-2007, 09:01 PM
elyahu just humiliated the best pf of the EL this season - on both sides of the floor. this kid has done some amazing things in his first EL season.

Yep, Smodis gave catastrophic performance - 0/9 from court, 2 points... Andersen was not much better, by the way - 1/8, 3 points...

final countdown
04-05-2007, 09:17 PM
I’ve just returned from SEF.

It was a great feeling to watch such an important game.

At 1st ht I felt like I was present in a “surgical operation”.

TAU is a great team – so obvious at 2nd ht-

and doesn’t need so much “protection”.

I’m sure that the semifinal game PAO – TAU would be a great game.

final countdown
04-05-2007, 09:26 PM
BTW, a question to all our friends from Israel.
I was sitting next to a pretty young girl, which PG came and kissed before the game. Is she his daughter?

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 09:26 PM
I’ve just returned from SEF.

It was a great feeling to watch such an important game.

At 1st ht I felt like I was present in a “surgical operation”.

TAU is a great team – so obvious at 2nd ht-

and doesn’t need so much “protection”.

I’m sure that the semifinal game PAO – TAU would be a great game.

didn't the atmosphere look like "a final countdown" for oly?
I wouldn't complain about the refs though.The big mistake was made in the summer; u can't do anything in the EL without a top pg.

final countdown
04-05-2007, 09:41 PM
didn't the atmosphere look like "a final countdown" for oly?
I wouldn't complain about the refs though.The big mistake was made in the summer; u can't do anything in the EL without a top pg.

The thing i hated the most was that the crowd was against PG all the time.
OK today wasn't his best day as a coach, but he didn't deserve this attitude.

Penn wasn't so bad today.

About the refs i can't agree with u (although i don't like OLY so much). Splitter had set a nice "camp" inside OLY's paint not for >3 sec, but almost the whole 24 sec and not one time.

Dookie
04-05-2007, 09:45 PM
BTW, a question to all our friends from Israel.
I was sitting next to a pretty young girl, which PG came and kissed before the game. Is she his daughter?

This girl ? http://www.tam.co.il/7_5_2004/images/pini_girlfriend.jpg

She's his girlfriend... :]

final countdown
04-05-2007, 09:50 PM
This girl ? http://www.tam.co.il/7_5_2004/images/pini_girlfriend.jpg

She's his girlfriend... :]

The one i saw him with had black coloured hair, but looked like the one in the picture.
Lucky PG :D

dont panic
04-05-2007, 09:50 PM
Gershon had a really tough night.. Almost half of the fans yelled at him for his decisions. I agree this is not fair. However his coaching was disapointing tonight.. I expected much more from a coach with his experience.

final countdown
04-05-2007, 09:53 PM
Gershon had a really tough night.. Almost half of the fans yelled at him for his decisions. I agree this is not fair. However his coaching was disapointing tonight.. I expected much more from a coach with his experience.

and what about the obsession of OLY's fans with Macas???
The guy just scored three or four shots before the game and the whole arena was shouting like he scored the winning shot in the EL's final :D

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 09:54 PM
The thing i hated the most was that the crowd was against PG all the time.
OK today wasn't his best day as a coach, but he didn't deserve this attitude.

Penn wasn't so bad today.

About the refs i can't agree with u (although i don't like OLY so much). Splitter had set a nice "camp" inside OLY's paint not for >3 sec, but almost the whole 24 sec and not one time.

Maybe he wasn't so bad, but that's not what we should expect from our point guard.My problem with him is not tonight's match, but his general performance.
I didn't like either the treatment Gershon had.I consider him responsible 4 most of Oly's weaknesses, but I'm crazy enough 2 want hims 2 stay 4 next year too!!!

final countdown
04-05-2007, 10:02 PM
Maybe he wasn't so bad, but that's not what we should expect from our point guard.My problem with him is not tonight's match, but his general performance.
I didn't like either the treatment Gershon had.I consider him responsible 4 most of Oly's weaknesses, but I'm crazy enough 2 want hims 2 stay 4 next year too!!!

imo the main problem with Penn is that he can't set the tempo of a game (like Prigioni for example did today) and just follows.

About PG i agree he should stay, cause i can't see any other option in the market.
Although imo the best coach for OLY is his Lith ex. He did an excellent job with less than 1/3 of this year's budget.

dont panic
04-05-2007, 10:02 PM
Most of fans know little about basketball, they just come to see Oly. Since the marketing department has turned him into the symbol of the renaissance of OLY, the fans have turned him into a god. And MAce tonight ran a lot, he played with great passion, and he showed that he wanted to win. Since most of the fans cant recognise technical aspects of the game, they appreciated it a lot. However i think Mace deserved this, because he has just been through 6 terrible months, another thing appreciated by the fans.

dont panic
04-05-2007, 10:06 PM
imo the main problem with Penn is that he can't set the tempo of a game (like Prigioni for example did today) and just follows.

About PG i agree he should stay, cause i can't see any other option in the market.
Although imo the best coach for OLY is his Lith ex. He did an excellent job with less than 1/3 of this year's budget.

There are many options in the market. David Blatt will leave Benetton this summer, i guess. Personally, i would prefer to have as first coach Sfairopoulos (Assistant coach now), than Gershon.

T.W.Is.M.
04-05-2007, 10:09 PM
imo the main problem with Penn is that he can't set the tempo of a game (like Prigioni for example did today) and just follows.

About PG i agree he should stay, cause i can't see any other option in the market.
Although imo the best coach for OLY is his Lith ex. He did an excellent job with less than 1/3 of this year's budget.

The reason I prefer Gershon staying is not lack of options,I just feel he can improve the team(and himself).And I would change him with one coach right now, the same one u say too.There is another reason:he managed 2 control Sofo!Unfortunately the Olympics take place in 2008 and until then he is unavailable:(
As 4 Penn, I just think Olympiacos had a better PG and released him and of course there r even better than him too.

Joško Poljak Fan
04-05-2007, 10:17 PM
Eliyahu played a great game, but imo he didn't really do much to humiliate Smodiš (except for that humiliaing block shot, and that referee whistle that didn't exist). Smodiš humiliated himself without much help... didn't shoot forced shots, didn't have enforced mistakes, but plainly "pulled out a Nesterovič" playing without passion for 90% of the game along with rookie mistakes unimaginable for a 10 year vet. couldn't believe how fast he was able to irritate Jamie Arnold :D -pure Zoran Savić style...-and that is the only good thing (together with 2 defensive actions in first 3 minutes) he managed to do in a whole game...
Not to mention Anderson and Papa... Anderson will probably have nightmares about his fadeaway jumper.

Maccabi did a really good job defending CSKA's inside-out, without CSKA delivering the ball in the paint their offense became much more onedimensional. And it wasn't CSKA's ussual pace in defense either, not finishing succesfully in the offense resulted in some Maccabi's succesfull fastbreaks, while even with stopped half-fast breaks CSKA wasn't exactly defending- as if they were surprised... Maccabi enforced their pace of the game, dominated the paint and CSKA couldn't do anything about it...
Calvin, Messina got owned by someone :rolleyes:

qiangdade
04-05-2007, 10:36 PM
Eliyahu played a great game, but imo he didn't really do much to humiliate Smodiš (except for that humiliaing block shot, and that referee whistle that didn't exist). Smodiš humiliated himself without much help... didn't shoot forced shots, didn't have enforced mistakes, but plainly "pulled out a Nesterovič" playing without passion for 90% of the game along with rookie mistakes unimaginable for a 10 year vet. couldn't believe how fast he was able to irritate Jamie Arnold :D -pure Zoran Savić style...-and that is the only good thing (together with 2 defensive actions in first 3 minutes) he managed to do in a whole game...
Not to mention Anderson and Papa... Anderson will probably have nightmares about his fadeaway jumper.

Maccabi did a really good job defending CSKA's inside-out, without CSKA delivering the ball in the paint their offense became much more onedimensional. And it wasn't CSKA's ussual pace in defense either, not finishing succesfully in the offense resulted in some Maccabi's succesfull fastbreaks, while even with stopped half-fast breaks CSKA wasn't exactly defending- as if they were surprised... Maccabi enforced their pace of the game, dominated the paint and CSKA couldn't do anything about it...
Calvin, Messina got owned by someone :rolleyes:

Maybe by the most hated person amongst the maccabi fans this year: Neven Spahija. I am curious what they would say if maccabi won next week in moscow:rolleyes:

brc
04-05-2007, 10:38 PM
Bye bye Oly!The first quarter was great for Oly.I expected that Oly could beat Tau.But this dream didn't materialized.Tau beat Oly!My favourite team is Tau because of Serkan and Kaya.But I must accept that Pao is better than Tau or CSKA:( So Pao will be the EL champion(I think:rolleyes:).What do u think about f4??

Arik
04-05-2007, 11:25 PM
I believe Ettore Messina is the best coach in Euroleague by now. He said after the game: CSKA surprised the rival in Moscow, Maccabi did it in Tel Aviv. Neven Spahija used less players in the rotation. And there were some other small changes.
All what he said is absolutely right (except the "political correct" beginning with "CSKA surprised Maccabi in Moscow"). Maybe the wave of criticism in Israeli sports media had an influense on Neven, that gave the keys to his 6 best players with a little support from the bench, in opposite to his former policy, when almost nobody in Maccabi's roster wasn't secured with playing time. Spahija has received huge feedback from his main players today. IMHO the psychology was important part of the victory. The players of CSKA, their fans, and even many fans of Maccabi didn't believe to what they saw today on the court. Just to read the headline of the article in Russian on official CSKA Moscow's site - Before 2nd game: Relaxed CSKA and "depressive" Maccabi.. :) Maybe our main players after humiliation in Moscow have asked themselves : What happens with us? Do we professional basketball players with million dollars contracts or we are just piece of s...?

jaka13
04-05-2007, 11:59 PM
Don't be so fast - 35:25 to Maccabi after first half - and it's CSKA's luck it's only 10...
It's still open, mind you, but Maccabi looks solid...
You are right i was totally wrong.:) And you know what?..I like it.:)
I hope Maccabi reaches the f4.
Go Maccabi!! Go!!

PHILIPeurobasket
04-06-2007, 04:07 AM
So now in semi-finals PAO will be fight with TAU and Maccabi/CSKA with Barca/Unicaja :confused: Yes :confused:

gravity
04-06-2007, 06:48 AM
So now in semi-finals PAO will be fight with TAU and Maccabi/CSKA with Barca/Unicaja :confused: Yes :confused:

If Uleb use same rule with Fiba, Tau must play with Barca/Unicaja winner.
Because two spanish team in F4.

so, Panathinaikos - CSKA/Maccabi winner
Tau Ceramica - Barca/Unicaja winner

We can watch a great final with Tau Ceramica and CSKA Moskow then those matches.Best teams of europe

Buducnost PG
04-06-2007, 07:26 AM
If Uleb use same rule with Fiba, Tau must play with Barca/Unicaja winner.
Because two spanish team in F4.

so, Panathinaikos - CSKA/Maccabi winner
Tau Ceramica - Barca/Unicaja winnder

We can watch a great final with Tau Ceramica and CSKA Moskow then those matches.Best teams of europe

But they not use the rule from FIBA. PAO will play against Tau in the semifinal.

CG
04-06-2007, 07:27 AM
I wouldn't call the defence bad.It's rather unstable though.The difference is:1st quarter TAU 1/7 3p, 2nd quarter 5/7 3p...Olympiacos keeps making to's and this explains the score so far.


most of the times TAU players were shooting alone...nad when you were closing down always they were putting the ball inside when Skola and Splitter were playing one on one your shorter guys...without help from some other player...it was obvious OLY will lose.

CG
04-06-2007, 07:39 AM
lol :D


what is the lowest point that a fan of a team can reach?
ofcourse to pray and want the failure of a specific team not against there one but against some else.and when this specific team disqualify one after another the other teams he is going to pray again and again in order to say something genius in the end without knowning that he is being rediculus to others...
making TP rediculus...PRICELESS

CG
04-06-2007, 07:47 AM
This girl ? http://www.tam.co.il/7_5_2004/images/pini_girlfriend.jpg

She's his girlfriend... :]



WHAT?we are dating together the last 2 months :D :D :D

lafa
04-06-2007, 08:10 AM
I loved the way OLY fans supported Macas. The guy should really appreciate it. BTW he didn't look as bad as I expected. Of course he made some mistakes, but he was playing after 6 months of rehab. and before that after a year on a bench... damn you byron scott..

CG
04-06-2007, 08:14 AM
so after the yesterday games i have been thinking the following things.
CSKA although they are the favorite of the EL they surely after the yesterday match dont look unbeatable thnks to Maccabi.maybe it is way to difficult for MB to qualify against them but they got our respect again.they are surely one of the top teams in europe and the most respectful team for PAO fans.If CSKA will go to the final maybe they will face PAO.There they will not have only the crowd and the most organised team in europe but also Ivkovic...the best man of Obradovic who knows them so well.so for the best of them TAU must qualify with them..

TAU has huge talent.Especially Rako,Skola are hugely players who can take their team in their owns.They know when they will put the ball inside and they can do it so well and when they will shot from outside.As i saw them yesterday and on Tuesday have same styles with PAO.But if they are going to win the semi must shot much better.You see PAO is not OLY like it or not.Yesterday they had easy task with OLY tall guys but this might not happened with PAO.On the other hand they beat last year PAO and thy have the experience and the attitude to do it again.They look stronger than ever and i am sure we are going to see one of the best semi in the recent history

PAO to winning by 17 in the 3 quarter in Moscow says it all.They play really good this kind of time and all the signs are good for them.But now we all know that they cannot depend on DELK and JAVTOKAS.So minus 2 players.But even without them PAO plays better.If they keep the rythm untill then they have good chances.They are unbeleivable in the paint and they are strong on guards too.Their play is similar to TAU and they know them from last year very well.also they want revenge..strong motive which can go to the opposite ofcourse.For me its the only team that can stop CSKA for not winning the title.We will see if PAO still win all the important games.

we all talk about these 3s but you see there will be another..and on F4 there is always a surprise.So if Barca qualify Navaro and Lacovic will surely have another opinion on the semi against CSKA..

MikeMaccabiFan
04-06-2007, 09:10 AM
BTW, a question to all our friends from Israel.
I was sitting next to a pretty young girl, which PG came and kissed before the game. Is she his daughter?
Probably - he has three of them

bolo
04-06-2007, 09:17 AM
I asked this long before. "
"How do we say Goodbye in Hebrew?

A team with an average of 100 points in the start of the season has become this "crap team" called Olympiacos. I am sure the Angelopoylos brothers will find the way to number one position where we belong.

Anyways. We got more serious things to deal with right now, than the F4.

woma
04-06-2007, 09:24 AM
I asked this long before. "
"How do we say Goodbye in Hebrew?

A team with an average of 100 points in the start of the season has become this "crap team" called Olympiacos.

This is indeed a problem and it really shows poor effects of Gershon job as Olympiacos HC. His team played their best basketball during first two months of the season - it surprised me then, how good they are, and now I am even more surprised that they look much, much worse after a few months. A few months which should be used to help all new players to find their place in Gershon's game plan. This didn't happen and Gershon should take big part of criticism for that.

Spahija is another story and personally I wouldn't be very hard on him for the way Maccabi is playing this season. But I am not MTA fan, so...

ziv
04-06-2007, 09:24 AM
i must say i'm dissapointed with oly's loss. i realy excpected more - espcially at home. oly might not be the most talented team in europe but it has many tools to use and i don't think they mad the best out of it.
in general - we have to keep in mind that oly actually did better less year with much smaller budget (well - tau and last year's maccabi aren't the same teams but still). well yes, macas injury hurt the team but still you'd excpect more - at least i would.
much of it rests on pini's shoulders. now that he have macas back i look forward to the team to do better in the league against pao. and i realy think it has the ability to make it difficult on them.

Victorious
04-06-2007, 11:25 AM
Great week.

My conclusions:
Respect for PAO. They are becoming better and better. And what's more important. One can clearly see that, unlike last year, they can handle the pressure. I think the MAIN reason for this is that the team now has one cold blooded Lithuanian (Siskauskas) except an unpredictable Lakovic.

CSKA are the European champions. We all know what they can do, but we didn't know that they can screw up as well. Whatever they'll do in the third game. No one will forget what happened in Tel Aviv.

TAU has beaten an Olympiakos team which is out of shape for months and has underperformed in the top 16 and the top 8. True, part of this is because of the great quality this team has. But to me this showed that a victory in Greece did not come all to easy.
As for their next opponents: They beat PAO last year, but many people forget that in the play-offs they also lost a game in OAKA.So the standings are 1-1 in Athens where the F4 will be played. What most fans also don't know was that PAO played a hard game against Olympiakos two days before they lost game 3 against TAU.
In any case, If they'll beat PAO in the semi's I will give them all the credit and won't be dissapointed at all. Cause they'll be the better team. But I don't think Obradovic and co will allow them to do that.

Pennywise
04-06-2007, 11:40 AM
Well, the third F4 in a row!!! pretty impressive, isn't it??

We played the game we wanted. Intense in defence, closing the rebound and with a fluent offence, we were irregular at 3pt shooting, but Serkan showed us the way. Players have a lot of confidence in themselves, they know how strong they are and it's gonna be really hard to beat them...how could I say, I'm almost scared of TAU's potential...I don't want to make too many illusions, because the way to the tittle is gonna be incredibly hard. We managed to beat PAO last year, but this year does not have anything to do with last's. They look pretty the same as TAU (thay are confident, consistent, aware of their potential)...sooo it's going to be a close and critical game.

I really hope that both teams will have all their players, no injuries...so the spectacle will be completed.

Congrats to all PAO fans, see ya in tha pit!!

dont panic
04-06-2007, 11:52 AM
Great week.

My conclusions:
Respect for PAO. They are becoming better and better. And what's more important. One can clearly see that, unlike last year, they can handle the pressure. I think the MAIN reason for this is that the team now has one cold blooded Lithuanian (Siskauskas) except an unpredictable Lakovic. They still have an unpredictable Slovenian (Becirovic)!:D
However i agree that Siskauskas can help much more than Lacovic or Spanoulis. Great player..

jaka13
04-06-2007, 11:53 AM
But I don't think Obradovic and co will allow them to do that.
I hope so!:D

Joško Poljak Fan
04-06-2007, 12:05 PM
WHAT?we are dating together the last 2 months :D :D :D
really? :confused: ... I was just starting to wonder how is she doing since I dumped her a while ago...

p.s. now my gf choosed the same haircut I have (bald :rolleyes: ) and with all that drugs and alcohol, with attending the "help clinic" prooving out unsuccesful... I'll dump her as well... I have to finally stop dating celebreties:D... and stop showing off as well

wardjdim
04-06-2007, 12:30 PM
Well, Tau wasn't exactly dominant neither yesterday nor on Tuesday.

This means that they know what it takes to win, even when they aren't at top form, exactly as it happens with Panathinaikos. Usually it takes three players to be in a good night in order to beat an opponent of a lower level, even when this team has been playing well both sides, for long stretches, like Olympiacos did yesterday.

Apparently, Tau will need more than that to qualify against Panathinaikos in a filled OAKA stadium. But, we all know that they have exactly 50% chances of achieving it. Especially, when both Prigioni and Planinic are focused on offense (I don't have any complaints on their amazing defensive flexibility and persistence) and healthy and when both back-up big men (Peker and Teletovic) are willing to sacrifice themselves on defense, backing up the Scola-Splitter duo.

This is the point that I should state once again that, talent-wise, Tau presents the best rotation both sides of the court and more potential than both Panathinaikos and CSKA at the present time. But, besides its excellent organization, coaching and the long time that many of these players have been together for, the team is still less experienced than CSKA and lacks the homecourt advantage of a really talented team like Panathinaikos.

It's going to be an amazing final four..


EDIT: It is really so stupid to write about the refs all the time. It is becoming really pathetic not to accept a loss as it is. Refs were very good yesterday.

CG
04-06-2007, 01:47 PM
really? :confused: ... I was just starting to wonder how is she doing since I dumped her a while ago...

p.s. now my gf choosed the same haircut I have (bald :rolleyes: ) and with all that drugs and alcohol, with attending the "help clinic" prooving out unsuccesful... I'll dump her as well... I have to finally stop dating celebreties:D... and stop showing off as well


:D :D :p

EverGreen
04-06-2007, 02:13 PM
I asked this long before. "
"How do we say Goodbye in Hebrew?

A team with an average of 100 points in the start of the season has become this "crap team" called Olympiacos. I am sure the Angelopoylos brothers will find the way to number one position where we belong.

Anyways. We got more serious things to deal with right now, than the F4.

Gershon never singed half the players at Oly. It's not all his fault. Sacking him will be a mistake. Give him complete control and it would be a differant story. But 1st of all you need to sign some Greek NT playing to challenge PAO in a couple years. You will go nowhere without a strong Greek base of 5-6 players. Until then, you will remain customers.

T.W.Is.M.
04-06-2007, 03:14 PM
Gershon never singed half the players at Oly. It's not all his fault. Sacking him will be a mistake. Give him complete control and it would be a differant story. But 1st of all you need to sign some Greek NT playing to challenge PAO in a couple years. You will go nowhere without a strong Greek base of 5-6 players. Until then, you will remain customers.

I partly agree with u, we need a couple of greek NT players(Zisis would b perfect, unfortunately Papaloukas isn't leaving Moscow).I also agree about Gershon because if we hire a new coach he will probably rebuild the team again, which will bring us one year back and give PAO another greek title.There is also another way of coming on top of PAO in the next years but I won't reveal it!:p

MikeMaccabiFan
04-06-2007, 03:16 PM
Gershon never singed half the players at Oly. It's not all his fault. Sacking him will be a mistake. Give him complete control and it would be a differant story. But 1st of all you need to sign some Greek NT playing to challenge PAO in a couple years. You will go nowhere without a strong Greek base of 5-6 players. Until then, you will remain customers.
Unfortunately those are two problems , which Pini has - 1. Finding good players (we all know that scouting of Acker was done by Maccabi and Machas hardly needed any... And before that most scouting and good signings were done by Blatt - McDonals, Huffman, Parker, Baston) and 2. Giving his faith in local players - he never did it Maccabi... And whatever anyone can say about Spahija (I won't say bad things about him though), he really gives faith and develops local players. After yesterday game, everyone should agree that he was right about Eliyahu - he can do defense and do it very well, so Spahija's demand from him to do it wasn't exaggregated.

T.W.Is.M.
04-06-2007, 04:52 PM
Planting a bomb into PAO's bus or Giannakopoulos car, I guess ? Because I cannot think another way.:p

haha, no, it has nothing 2 do with violence(or refs if someone thinks so)!It's about signing playersI just don't wanna say names because there might b no actual interest from oly.(ευσεβεις ποθοι as we say in greek)

Zachos
04-06-2007, 08:27 PM
Pennywise, I have a question for you.


How do you manage over there in Basque country to make 12 foreign players to behave and fight like Basques? I have heard that Basque people are very special. Is it the atmosphere there that chages people?

It is incredible how passionate the players of Tau are when they play...

I hope they get dissapointed for a third time in about a month thought.:D

I don't recal such an interesting final 4, ever. It seems that there are 3 teams that lose only when they want (Especially PAO). Now some of them must lose.

Civilis
04-07-2007, 08:03 AM
I think it has to do with selection and "corporate culture" of Tau Ceramica management. I remember an interview with Dusko Ivanovic back then in which he said "I only train players who have been born with flame in their eyes". When they got Macas back then it was a clear sign of this policy (no other Lithuanian player of his generation but Saras and Macas have this winner's flame in the eyes!) Even though Dusko is no longer Tau's coach they anyway manage to get young players who are internally passionate about playing bball. Maybe there are some exceptions, but, as always, if you get the critical mass of devoted players, others also get emotionally charged.

Restpect to Tau :) I wish they finally win this Euroleague :)

ziv
04-07-2007, 08:25 AM
i must say i realy don't like what boza is doing with the team.
for some reason he refuses to play with both planinic prigioni on court at the same time and that something tau did quite a lot till he got to the team. in a way i feel as if he's trying to slow down the team - but even he can't stop the rythm. tau plays so well atm. it would be interesting to see them against pao and cska.

Pennywise
04-07-2007, 01:36 PM
Pennywise, I have a question for you.


How do you manage over there in Basque country to make 12 foreign players to behave and fight like Basques? I have heard that Basque people are very special. Is it the atmosphere there that chages people?

It is incredible how passionate the players of Tau are when they play...

I hope they get dissapointed for a third time in about a month thought.:D

I don't recal such an interesting final 4, ever. It seems that there are 3 teams that lose only when they want (Especially PAO). Now some of them must lose.

Well, thanks a lot!! It's always nice to listen that people from other countries recognize the Basque Country and set it apart from Spain. I recognize it, I'm independentist and I dream with a free Basque nation... now I'll try to answer the question...

In this case, I wouldn'y say that players' special effort or character is related to the fact that they play for a Basque team (that doesn't happen with other basketball teams in ACB (Bilbao or San Sebastian) neither with football teams (apart from Athletic Bilbao, where all players are basque).

It has more to do with TAU's politics, TAU always tries to find players that are involved with the club, that will fight hard for it. When you come hear you know that if you don't give your best you will be out, from the coach to the 12th player. They create this special atmosphere, and media in Spain has even given it a name (Caracter Baskonia), because it works year after year. It is another characteristic of our glorious management team: as much as the playing skills or abilities, they take into account the degree of compromise toward the team that players have. It's a "dangereous politic", but it's the key of the success of this "small" team, without this character we would be fighting for just playing in europe one year after the other. I don't know...TAU's president (Querejeta) is basque and undoubtedly has tried to transmit his pride and consistency to the club, something he has managed with spectacular results.

Pennywise
04-07-2007, 01:44 PM
i must say i realy don't like what boza is doing with the team.
for some reason he refuses to play with both planinic prigioni on court at the same time and that something tau did quite a lot till he got to the team. in a way i feel as if he's trying to slow down the team - but even he can't stop the rythm. tau plays so well atm. it would be interesting to see them against pao and cska.

Well Zoran and Prigioni didn't share too many minutes with perasovic neither...
When Boza came I was partly confused (I used to hate him when he was Madrid's coach and thay "stole";) that ACB league with Herreros' 3pter in that unbealivable ending of tha 5th game).
But now, I'm everyday more happy with his signing, he's a really good coach, he's got experience and has won many tittles. Besides, for me, his rotation is perfect, he knows when to mantain the key players and how to conbine thaem. Ok, the squad is wonderfull, but he manages to take the best out of everybody.

Besides, imagine a F4 semifinal, a coach like Boza transmits much more respect (twards referees, players...) than any other that TAU could find in the market. People said that Natxo Lezcano (the coach that replaced Perasovic for a month or so with impressive results) should have stayed, but once again, Querejeta made a great move just for things like those that I have explained (experience, respect...).

I believe in Boza because he hasn't changed many things since he has come, he hasn't tried to impose his particular tachtics or soo, the team is playing pretty the same but with an old wise dinosaur in the bench.

EverGreen
04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
haha, no, it has nothing 2 do with violence(or refs if someone thinks so)!It's about signing playersI just don't wanna say names because there might b no actual interest from oly.(ευσεβεις ποθοι as we say in greek)

If you are talking about Papanikolaou, he is all your my friend. For free! :)

T.W.Is.M.
04-09-2007, 06:59 PM
If you are talking about Papanikolaou, he is all your my friend. For free! :)

Yes that's exactly what I meant!!!:D :D :D :D
But I won't accept him 4 free!I trade him with Stefanov:p

Roy M
04-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Maccabi's fans shaw against CSKA:

http://www.tapuz.co.il/tapuzforum/main/Viewmsg.asp?forum=91&msgid=96670326

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA-Mavi38r4&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7VqZKhCrMg&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mpr4YKdCAQ&mode=related&search=

Montepaschi
04-10-2007, 09:18 AM
You call it a show?:D :D :D :D wake up.our fans are doing more than that!

jaka13
04-10-2007, 09:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rMe2Vyb9E
That's what fans means.XORTO MAGIKO!!
If you find sth better than this send me an SMS...:D :D :D

Montepaschi
04-10-2007, 10:08 AM
NO NO maccabi fans doing better show:D :D :D

guyOFK
04-10-2007, 11:25 AM
I don't know Montepaschi.. but I see lots of empty seats in PAO arena.. did u see any at NOKIA arena?? ho sorry... you can't.. just another ULEB CUP team.. :p

Zachos
04-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Yes you are right admitting Maccabi is just another uleb cup team... Arenas with 12.000 people or less belong to uleb cup teams, so that they can fill them out easily...

:p

guyOFK
04-10-2007, 07:52 PM
Yes you are right admitting Maccabi is just another uleb cup team... Arenas with 12.000 people or less belong to uleb cup teams, so that they can fill them out easily...

:p


Montepaschi is ULEB team dude...

FRANKY 13
04-10-2007, 10:43 PM
dudes chill out:cool:

PAO and Maccabi are great teams. Nothing else matters

jaka13
04-10-2007, 11:01 PM
I don't know Montepaschi.. but I see lots of empty seats in PAO arena.. did u see any at NOKIA arena?? ho sorry... you can't.. just another ULEB CUP team.. :p
Can any other team in the whole europe provide the show we provide?
If you could have a 18.000 seat stadium full we could talk about your writings...:)
P.S.:We respect you anyway...

MikeMaccabiFan
04-11-2007, 03:52 AM
Hey guys, why have this pissing contest? We really respect each other, so let's not go down to "Who has bigger..."

Anyway I think this is Quarter Finals thread, not "Who has bigger arena in Europe?":p

CG
04-11-2007, 04:12 PM
both teams have the best fans in europe.its true that Maccabi fans have a lot of respect and very high the green atmosphere and as they told in the past here in this forum and after some conversations in our last game in OAKA they even think it as the best in the world but i have also to admit that they make terrific atmosphere too as for example the game against CSKA.So its better to leave it behind and focus to the next 2 great matches.
Go MACCABI GO GO;) :D

rikhardur
04-11-2007, 04:32 PM
Tomorrow CSKA vs Maccabi online broadcast might be available here (http://supertv.superonline.com/playsky.php) and Unicaja vs Barcelona here (http://supertv.superonline.com/playsky.php) and/or here (http://www.tv3.cat/su/tvc/tvcConditionalAccess.jsp?ALTERNATE=YES&ID_BACKUP=222222155&ID=222222255&QUALITY=B&FORMAT=WM).

T.W.Is.M.
04-12-2007, 04:49 PM
CSKA is already the third team of the f4.They lead Maccabi affter 17 mins 52-23!:eek:
CSKA has 8/12 3p, Langdon is shooting from everywhere and he is just making everything...It has already become annoying although I'm not a Maccabi fan.

elaj
04-12-2007, 05:12 PM
I kind of expected something like this to happen (59:37 after HT) considering the bad performance (could we say shameful?) CSKA showed in Tel-Aviv. :D

Update: game ended, CSKA easily over Maccabi with 92-71.

ziv
04-12-2007, 06:14 PM
once again - a shameful loss for maccabi.
congrats to cska (once again an opertunity to wish there were more russains here). eventhough pao is the home team - cska is the team to beat and it was real fun watching them for most of the game.