Clubs Merging

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

In the last few years there have been many proposals for 2 existing clubs to merge into a new club so that the financial stability of the one to be intergrated with the large fanbase of the other, in order for a new, healthy, and promising club to emerge.

Initally it was Peristeri to be merged with the financially sound Panellinios. Then when this proposal failed, it was Near East to be merged with Peristeri, a proposal that also failed. Another recent proposal was for struggling Makedonikos Kozani to merge with also struggling and recently relegated Iraklis, and move back to Thessaloniki. This scenario also seems too unlikely to materialise (fortunately IMO). Now after the recent promotion of Olympiada Patras, there have been suggestions that they should merge with Apollon Patras as the city of Patras will not be able to sustain at a high level two teams. A similar proposal has been around for quite awhile about the two teams of Larissa, namely Olympia and Gymnastikos, both of which are currently in A1.

However none of the above proposals ever worked out. Why this is the case I don't know. A number of reasons sound plausible, one of which is the desire for years of history behind a club not be lost by the incorporation into a brand new club. Today however I read that Gymnastikos Larissas is about to merge with Athlitiki Enosi Larissas, which is the basketball branch of the big football club of the town (AEL), and which has been moving between the 4th and the amateur divisions for years. This will make Gymnastikos the official basketball branch of AEL and hopefully offer them the backing of the enormous fanbase of AEL (who will identify more with the new club than with the, albeit local but not AEL-ian, Gymnastikos). Will this happen this time? I don't know. Will it work out as an idea? Hopefully. I really look forward to see a maroon-clad Larissean team with the rearing horse on the chest, taking on the rest of the A1 teams.

[Trifilli]

Imo it's a bit difficult for cities of the size of Patras and Larissa (both way below 200.000 inhabitants) to have more than one successful 1st division team, especially given the sportive dominance of Athens (and partially Saloniki). With the recent basketball development in Larissa, with the future for Olympia being unknown atm (after the Malakos brothers left the club), it seems like a good solution imo to have both clubs - GS and Olympia - merging with AEL, not just GS. This could lead to a pretty strong team from Larissa, with a solid fanbase, a decent financial basis and a nice arena (which both teams use atm anyways). I'm sceptical if this is going to happen though, things like these failed too often in the past.
As for Patras: Apollon and Olympiada are both clubs with a decent tradition, a merge might do them good, but I don't think that the fans would accept something alike.

Looking at the A1 in general for next season one can only hope that Aigaleo will lose another match in the A2 until the end of the season and that AGOR wins all remaining matches, otherwise we'd have an A1 with 7 teams from Athens, 2 from Saloniki, 2 from Larissa, 2 from Patras and 1 from Kozani next season - I don't think that this would be good at all for basketball interest in Greece. The best possible scenario would be to have AGOR as 2nd team of the A2 and Kolossos Rhodes coming back in with a wildcard because of two other teams merging - but this once again looks to be unlikely imo, sadly.

[Trifilli]

As one can read here, the merge between AEL and GS Larissa became a reality, the new name of the team is AEL-1964 GS. Does anybody here know something about the acceptance of this merge by the AEL fans (somebody from Larissa here maybe?)?. I didn't read anything about this yet on the AEL fansites. One can only hope that the idea will work out and that the AEL fans will accept the merge and support the new team.

[hellenic]

I heard that Iraklis want to build one team with Makedonikos and MENT!It would be a good idea cause all tehse teams are not very rich and powerfull!In Larisa the Malakos Brothers will stay but with a smaller budget!And Larisa and Patra have a population over 200000!!!

[Trifilli]

And Larisa and Patra have a population over 200000!!!

The official website of Larissa mentions 150.000 residents (here). I couldn't find anthying alike for Patras this year, but this census (7 MB) says that the Dimos Patreon had a population of exactly 171.616 residents in 2001 (the same census reports that the Dimos Larissas had 132.779 residents in 2001).

I also found this site (quotes the real population numbers of said census, but is way easier to read than the official version), which claims that Patras and Larissa have a population of 161.114 and 124.786 people.

[hellenic]

The official website of Larissa mentions 150.000 residents (here). I couldn't find anthying alike for Patras this year, but this census (7 MB) says that the Dimos Patreon had a population of exactly 171.616 residents in 2001 (the same census reports that the Dimos Larissas had 132.779 residents in 2001).

I also found this site (quotes the real population numbers of said census, but is way easier to read than the official version), which claims that Patras and Larissa have a population of 161.114 and 124.786 people.

Do you ever go to Greece?Many people have their official residence in their villages like mine near Larissa!I know at least 30 persons which live 10months in a year in Larissa but have their seat in the village!In every town in Greece its like that!They just came back for the election!

[Trifilli]

Do you ever go to Greece?Many people have their official residence in their villages like mine near Larissa!I know at least 30 persons which live 10months in a year in Larissa but have their seat in the village!In every town in Greece its like that!They just came back for the election!

Man, I hate people like you. People who answer fact based arguments with stupid populism. Did you actually read the census? Do you know what permanent and real population means? How old are you - 14? Get lost boy, and don't annoy me again.

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

Guys chill out and get back on topic if possible.

[hellenic]

Man, I hate people like you. People who answer fact based arguments with stupid populism. Did you actually read the census? Do you know what permanent and real population means? How old are you - 14? Get lost boy, and don't annoy me again.

Now im 11 but still 8 years older then you!Listen im from Larissa my self and i now whats going on there and i not that the official number of the popoulation of Larissa is smaller then the real population!Believe it or not!Maybe you have to visit Greece one more time and go to any village and ask where the young people are!

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

I'd hate to lock this thread, but I will, should another post of this kind be posted.

[Trifilli]

Now im 11 but still 8 years older then you!Listen im from Larissa my self and i now whats going on there and i not that the official number of the popoulation of Larissa is smaller then the real population!Believe it or not!Maybe you have to visit Greece one more time and go to any village and ask where the young people are!

Ok, your age very well explains your replies and why you don't know much about empirical studies. Let me explain it to you: what you're talking about is the number of registered citizens in a greek city, which is quite different from the population the city really has. This census however is being done every 10 years and doesn't give numbers about the registered citizens or the municpal roll but rather about the permanent and real population. To make that easier to understand I'll give you an example in a smaller dimension: the community of Antikithira has an active municipal roll of about 200 individuals. However, the permanent population of the island/community doesn't exceed the number of 45 atm - 39 permanent residents are mentioned in said census from 2001. The people who're not living on the island any more, the people who are only returning for elections and holidays are therefore not included.
Now on topic again (sorry JCN ): No matter if the numbers are way below 200.000 for Patras and Larissa, or close to that number or even short above - my point stays: imo both of these cities are too small for two A1 teams.

[Aris Salonica B.C.]

It is not reasonable for Patra and Larissa to have two teams...
Imagine AEL 1964 playing in front of 4000 people...
Or Apollon having a full stadium...
Otherwise this would do nothing but hurt the future of Greek Basketball...
Trifylli you have right...

[hellenic]

I never said that it good for Larissa or Patra to have 2 teams!And if you imagine that Larissa have 3 professional teams in football and basketball!I always was saying that 2teams are too much or that 7 teams for Athens are too much!But if we watch the statistics we will see that Apollon,Olympia and GSL had sold more tickets than AEK(!!!!!),Panionios,Marousi....!So i prefer a second team from Larissa then Aigaleo!

[Aris Salonica B.C.]

Of course...
The same thing happens at football as well...
For me,the ideal A1 would be:
ARIS
Panathinaikos
Olympiakos
Aek
Paok
Iraklis
Panionios
Maroussi
Peristeri
Apollon
Ael 1964
Irakleio
Makedonikos
Kolossos

All the above are considered especially by the fans,the organization and the city of each team...

[Trifilli]

I agree, 7 teams from Athens are way too much and I'd also prefer a 2nd team from Larissa or Patras over Aigaleo. I hoped all the time that Rethymno would still make it - but sadly they didn't and now we have 7 teams from Athens.
Rhodos should be back in the A1 soon (hopefully), while one can only hope that Makedonikos surpasses the clubs current problems, otherwise the A1 might lose the last team not being located in one of the 4 cities of Athens, Saloniki, Patras and Larissa in the upcoming season.