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Is Fiba serious?
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Matiz
09-16-2004, 06:47 AM
Yesterday at Czech republic - Slovenia game the "arena" the game took place in or let say court sorounded with 3 benches was pathetic- and arena didn't fullfill standards for 95% of european first division clubs. My guess would be those guys at Fiba aren't worried about populisation of basketball AT ALL?? well there is a news for you.. (I intentionaly restrained myself from using comments about Fiba's inteligence right here)... full arena with 800 people from a stone age won't really help to inrease interest for basketball- quite the opposite, Fiba's attitude towards international game is very obvious here...
...there should be licenses for arena's just like in soccer (and we again came to this soccer part- but obviously Fifa & Uefa are light years infront of Fiba regarding organization) And if some place wouldn't fullfill all the demands, no international game should be played there. as simple as that. WAY TO GO FIBA!!!
and it's not only this particular game- I believe many more games of this EC qualifications will be played behind the god's back in "industry-production hall" with 2 baskets and 4 benches...
once again Fiba is prooving they are total amateurs- they haven't improved one bit since Uleb was created and they obviously learned NOTHING from it
...my guess would be they are trying real hard to stay dumb&poor...
09-16-2004, 06:47 AM
Yesterday at Czech republic - Slovenia game the "arena" the game took place in or let say court sorounded with 3 benches was pathetic- and arena didn't fullfill standards for 95% of european first division clubs. My guess would be those guys at Fiba aren't worried about populisation of basketball AT ALL?? well there is a news for you.. (I intentionaly restrained myself from using comments about Fiba's inteligence right here)... full arena with 800 people from a stone age won't really help to inrease interest for basketball- quite the opposite, Fiba's attitude towards international game is very obvious here...
...there should be licenses for arena's just like in soccer (and we again came to this soccer part- but obviously Fifa & Uefa are light years infront of Fiba regarding organization) And if some place wouldn't fullfill all the demands, no international game should be played there. as simple as that. WAY TO GO FIBA!!!
and it's not only this particular game- I believe many more games of this EC qualifications will be played behind the god's back in "industry-production hall" with 2 baskets and 4 benches...
once again Fiba is prooving they are total amateurs- they haven't improved one bit since Uleb was created and they obviously learned NOTHING from it
...my guess would be they are trying real hard to stay dumb&poor...
Sigma
09-16-2004, 08:10 AM
As always Fiba is root of all evil
09-16-2004, 08:10 AM
As always Fiba is root of all evil
Sigma
09-16-2004, 08:21 AM
When speaking about Fiba vs. Uleb everybody is forgeting Nebl. I miss that league 
Damn Fiba for eating it
09-16-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Matiz
...there should be licenses for arena's just like in soccer
there are licenses for arenas or something similar in Fiba competitions. I know that Tartu Rock had to do some upgrade to their home arena before it was up to Fiba Cup (weakest international league) standards. Maybe there ain't any regulations in NT competitons, i don't know.
...there should be licenses for arena's just like in soccer
there are licenses for arenas or something similar in Fiba competitions. I know that Tartu Rock had to do some upgrade to their home arena before it was up to Fiba Cup (weakest international league) standards. Maybe there ain't any regulations in NT competitons, i don't know.
Damn Fiba for eating it
Matiz
09-16-2004, 08:27 AM
This IS (or at least should be) Fiba's responcibility- but instead they let national basketball ass-ociations decide where the games will be played... it's same in Slovenija- one game will be played in Skofja Loka in front of maybee 500 spectators (I can't remember exactly how many seat that "hall" has, J-will would know better about that...)
Uefa for example cares for "image" of football- that's why they don't let games to be played at inapropriate stadiums...
there are licenses for arenas or something similar in Fiba competitions. I know that Tartu Rock had to do some upgrade to their home arena before it was up to Fiba Cup (weakest international league) standards. Maybe there ain't any regulations in NT competitons, i don't know.
I believe there aren't any regulations for NT competitions imo... even if those regulations exist, it looks like my back-yard would suit them with some work
When speaking about Fiba vs. Uleb everybody is forgeting Nebl. I miss that league Damn Fiba for eating it
What happened there?
09-16-2004, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Sigma
As always Fiba is root of all evil
As always Fiba is root of all evil
Uefa for example cares for "image" of football- that's why they don't let games to be played at inapropriate stadiums...
there are licenses for arenas or something similar in Fiba competitions. I know that Tartu Rock had to do some upgrade to their home arena before it was up to Fiba Cup (weakest international league) standards. Maybe there ain't any regulations in NT competitons, i don't know.
I believe there aren't any regulations for NT competitions imo... even if those regulations exist, it looks like my back-yard would suit them with some work
When speaking about Fiba vs. Uleb everybody is forgeting Nebl. I miss that league Damn Fiba for eating it
What happened there?
Sigma
09-16-2004, 10:03 AM
I'm sure there are people on this board that know a lot more about this subject than i do. My understanding is that Nebl wanted co-operation with Fiba but instead of co-operation Fiba just swallowed it. Maybe sponsors moved away or their vision was bigger than reality, i don't know.
09-16-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Matiz
What happened there?
I tought Fiba ate it.
What happened there?
I tought Fiba ate it.
K-2 Young
09-18-2004, 12:29 PM
hmmmmm
Option D... All of the above
09-18-2004, 12:29 PM
hmmmmm
Option D... All of the above
hagakure
09-10-2005, 06:25 PM
I totally agree. FIFA and UEFA are much more organized than FIBA will ever be.
Another thing that bothers me about FIBA is that they're going to hand wildcards to four teams that dont qualify for the World Championship in Tokyo next summer.
Doesn't anyone else think that's unfair?
And don't those idiots understand that by doing that they're making the continental competitions less interesting because many stars who know their teams will not qualify will not play in those games.
09-10-2005, 06:25 PM
I totally agree. FIFA and UEFA are much more organized than FIBA will ever be.
Another thing that bothers me about FIBA is that they're going to hand wildcards to four teams that dont qualify for the World Championship in Tokyo next summer.
Doesn't anyone else think that's unfair?
And don't those idiots understand that by doing that they're making the continental competitions less interesting because many stars who know their teams will not qualify will not play in those games.
Matiz
09-11-2005, 02:23 AM
I guess they want to attract some economically strong countries... and have an assurance in case a major owers like Spain, France, Usa, Russia, China would get leftout...
they want to popularise it in the wrong way... they have loads of unnused options of popularising the game more but they're sticking to the most unfair one= "who cares if you finished 12th in eurobasket, you still have 100 mio population with strong economy, you'll get your wildcard"
09-11-2005, 02:23 AM
I guess they want to attract some economically strong countries... and have an assurance in case a major owers like Spain, France, Usa, Russia, China would get leftout...
they want to popularise it in the wrong way... they have loads of unnused options of popularising the game more but they're sticking to the most unfair one= "who cares if you finished 12th in eurobasket, you still have 100 mio population with strong economy, you'll get your wildcard"
Sigma
09-11-2005, 02:42 AM
Doesn't anyone else think that's unfair?
And don't those idiots understand that by doing that they're making the continental competitions less interesting because many stars who know their teams will not qualify will not play in those games.
I disagree 100%.
Since when is EC about qualifing to the WC? EC is about best team in Europe.
09-11-2005, 02:42 AM
Another thing that bothers me about FIBA is that they're going to hand wildcards to four teams that dont qualify for the World Championship in Tokyo next summer.
And don't those idiots understand that by doing that they're making the continental competitions less interesting because many stars who know their teams will not qualify will not play in those games.
I disagree 100%.
Since when is EC about qualifing to the WC? EC is about best team in Europe.
Zalgirinis
09-11-2005, 03:49 AM
Agree here with Sigma.
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
IMHO thats a big bull----, tourney in June with all champs just finished? Also you must prepare for qualification with the best squad and what next in those 2 free months to OG, let players rest and make another camp. Pathetic...
09-11-2005, 03:49 AM
Since when is EC about qualifing to the WC? EC is about best team in Europe.
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
IMHO thats a big bull----, tourney in June with all champs just finished? Also you must prepare for qualification with the best squad and what next in those 2 free months to OG, let players rest and make another camp. Pathetic...
kestas
09-11-2005, 06:38 AM
if this were to be accepted, FIBA could split imho. I mean, this would be the only logical solution for FIBA Europe, - no one in their right mind in FIBA Europe will vote for such a decision. I'd say if this decision would go through, the Pekin tournament would be in danger of boycott from some of the greatest teams in the world and FIBA would be screwed for good.
Who wants that?
sure, USA probably wants that badly - it would make European representatives weaker for the Olympic games (more tired). furthermore, it would undoubtedly hurt the image of international competition and that plays well with American idea that these competitions are bull---- and the only thing that matters is NBA. seing that fair playing rules are not in their favour (and that their spots in the world rankings are doomed), some big countries try to harm the competition itself.. to me it's strange that only Europe is against such suicidal (for the whole international basketball and FIBA) decision.. that's how I see that.. (a bit radically, as always
)
if FIBA wants to survive, they will not pass those changes imho..
btw, the wild-card system will be tested this year imho. although I too as hagakure tend to think its more "bad" than it is "good". for the sport at least.. we'll see who gets the first wildcards.
on the related matter, I think that FIBA rankings system, which gives 5 time more points in the Worlds and in the Olympic games than it does in Eurochamps, is stupid.
k
09-11-2005, 06:38 AM
Agree here with Sigma.
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
Who wants that?
sure, USA probably wants that badly - it would make European representatives weaker for the Olympic games (more tired). furthermore, it would undoubtedly hurt the image of international competition and that plays well with American idea that these competitions are bull---- and the only thing that matters is NBA. seing that fair playing rules are not in their favour (and that their spots in the world rankings are doomed), some big countries try to harm the competition itself.. to me it's strange that only Europe is against such suicidal (for the whole international basketball and FIBA) decision.. that's how I see that.. (a bit radically, as always
)if FIBA wants to survive, they will not pass those changes imho..
btw, the wild-card system will be tested this year imho. although I too as hagakure tend to think its more "bad" than it is "good". for the sport at least.. we'll see who gets the first wildcards.
on the related matter, I think that FIBA rankings system, which gives 5 time more points in the Worlds and in the Olympic games than it does in Eurochamps, is stupid.
k
Zalgirinis
09-11-2005, 08:24 AM
btw, the wild-card system will be tested this year imho. although I too as hagakure tend to think its more "bad" than it is "good". for the sport at least.. we'll see who gets the first wildcards.
I also agree its more bad than good, but I disagree with his view that stars choose to skip this champ knowing they will get wildcards. I really doubt that they their decisions were influenced by wildcards thing.
09-11-2005, 08:24 AM
btw, the wild-card system will be tested this year imho. although I too as hagakure tend to think its more "bad" than it is "good". for the sport at least.. we'll see who gets the first wildcards.
I also agree its more bad than good, but I disagree with his view that stars choose to skip this champ knowing they will get wildcards. I really doubt that they their decisions were influenced by wildcards thing.
akis71
09-14-2005, 06:18 AM
I think it correct to have qualification tournament before olympics so in olympics would be the best european teams of that period and not teams that were good a year ago. That system exist in past and I remember well the preolympics of 1988 and 1992. In both cases the best teams went USSR won gold at 1988, Croatia silver which was equal to gold concerning that there was the dream team.
Why should leagues finish in June? Leagues could start 2-3 weeks earlier and finish 15 of May. Does same happen in football at years that there is World Cup or Euro ?
About wid cards I find it unfair. Why should 4 teams that didnt manage to qualify to take part in the competiton? Better give one spot to each area.
I also believe that teams that take part at World Cup should not earn spot from previous year area competitions but for qualification tournaments. Only host country, ex-champion and maybe area winners should qualify automatically. All rest teams should play qualification games and should not have specific spots for each area
09-14-2005, 06:18 AM
Agree here with Sigma.
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
IMHO thats a big bull----, tourney in June with all champs just finished? Also you must prepare for qualification with the best squad and what next in those 2 free months to OG, let players rest and make another camp. Pathetic...
Also I think its a good thread to talk about other thing. Have you heard about new qualification system for Pekin OG? I might not remember well, but something like the only 2 first teams of EC07 goes straight to OG. Another 4 teams from Europe battle in 12 teams qualification tournament made in 2008 June (3 teams make to OG from there). It hasnt been set yet as FIBA-Europe is against it, but other continents agree.
IMHO thats a big bull----, tourney in June with all champs just finished? Also you must prepare for qualification with the best squad and what next in those 2 free months to OG, let players rest and make another camp. Pathetic...
Why should leagues finish in June? Leagues could start 2-3 weeks earlier and finish 15 of May. Does same happen in football at years that there is World Cup or Euro ?
About wid cards I find it unfair. Why should 4 teams that didnt manage to qualify to take part in the competiton? Better give one spot to each area.
I also believe that teams that take part at World Cup should not earn spot from previous year area competitions but for qualification tournaments. Only host country, ex-champion and maybe area winners should qualify automatically. All rest teams should play qualification games and should not have specific spots for each area
kestas
09-16-2005, 02:32 AM
I think it correct to have qualification tournament before olympics so in olympics would be the best european teams of that period and not teams that were good a year ago.
well, in that case you surly must agree that Americas, Asia and Africa (let's not talk about the joke that Oceania is..) should have such tournament as well. either all continents get to the Olympic under this system, or none.
now try to pass the above idea (ok, try to pass the idea with Americas only). Americans will rather die than let this come true.
on the other hand, I suppose they understand that such system is doomed and simply want to test Europe's (and FIBA's) nerve, maybe gain something in a short term.. I mean, everybody understands that Europe is the strongest basketball continent and that consistent level is the middle name of European squads. obviously additional tournament idea is absurd in such sircumstances. Americas, on the other hand, is the different matter. those folks tend to come up different teams all the time.. however, imho nobody should have those tournaments, coz it would obviously harm the international basketball even further.
k
09-16-2005, 02:32 AM
I think it correct to have qualification tournament before olympics so in olympics would be the best european teams of that period and not teams that were good a year ago.
well, in that case you surly must agree that Americas, Asia and Africa (let's not talk about the joke that Oceania is..) should have such tournament as well. either all continents get to the Olympic under this system, or none.
now try to pass the above idea (ok, try to pass the idea with Americas only). Americans will rather die than let this come true.
on the other hand, I suppose they understand that such system is doomed and simply want to test Europe's (and FIBA's) nerve, maybe gain something in a short term.. I mean, everybody understands that Europe is the strongest basketball continent and that consistent level is the middle name of European squads. obviously additional tournament idea is absurd in such sircumstances. Americas, on the other hand, is the different matter. those folks tend to come up different teams all the time..
however, imho nobody should have those tournaments, coz it would obviously harm the international basketball even further.k
hagakure
09-18-2005, 05:55 PM
Say that to Gasol, Stojakovic, Macijauskas, Jasikevicius etc.
09-18-2005, 05:55 PM
I disagree 100%.
Since when is EC about qualifing to the WC? EC is about best team in Europe.
Since when is EC about qualifing to the WC? EC is about best team in Europe.
Say that to Gasol, Stojakovic, Macijauskas, Jasikevicius etc.
hagakure
09-18-2005, 05:56 PM
Aki, I agree with what you say about wildcards but not with the qualifying tournaments. I think the regional competitions are a much better way to pick teams for the world championship and the olympics.
09-18-2005, 05:56 PM
I think it correct to have qualification tournament before olympics so in olympics would be the best european teams of that period and not teams that were good a year ago. That system exist in past and I remember well the preolympics of 1988 and 1992. In both cases the best teams went USSR won gold at 1988, Croatia silver which was equal to gold concerning that there was the dream team.
Why should leagues finish in June? Leagues could start 2-3 weeks earlier and finish 15 of May. Does same happen in football at years that there is World Cup or Euro ?
About wid cards I find it unfair. Why should 4 teams that didnt manage to qualify to take part in the competiton? Better give one spot to each area.
I also believe that teams that take part at World Cup should not earn spot from previous year area competitions but for qualification tournaments. Only host country, ex-champion and maybe area winners should qualify automatically. All rest teams should play qualification games and should not have specific spots for each area
Why should leagues finish in June? Leagues could start 2-3 weeks earlier and finish 15 of May. Does same happen in football at years that there is World Cup or Euro ?
About wid cards I find it unfair. Why should 4 teams that didnt manage to qualify to take part in the competiton? Better give one spot to each area.
I also believe that teams that take part at World Cup should not earn spot from previous year area competitions but for qualification tournaments. Only host country, ex-champion and maybe area winners should qualify automatically. All rest teams should play qualification games and should not have specific spots for each area
kestas
09-18-2005, 08:42 PM
well, Sigma was talking about the best team. not the best brainlessnbastareverybodyhasheardof.
and why Macijauskas? he had an injurie.
k
09-18-2005, 08:42 PM
Say that to Gasol, Stojakovic, Macijauskas, Jasikevicius etc.
and why Macijauskas? he had an injurie.
k
akis71
09-19-2005, 05:48 AM
Why shouldnt be qualification tourmanent and pick teams from regional competitions? Qualifications tournament would be a kind of a small regional tournament before the world or olympics tournament. Also that way you have surely the teams that deserve to be there and will be competive. For example if Germany qualify to world championship and Dirk wants to rest next year we will just have an average to bad team in tourmanent instead of having a more competive team.
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
09-19-2005, 05:48 AM
Aki, I agree with what you say about wildcards but not with the qualifying tournaments. I think the regional competitions are a much better way to pick teams for the world championship and the olympics.
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
kestas
09-19-2005, 06:20 AM
akis, man, be consistent! Europe can not be treated differently in this case. either we have additional quallification tournaments for all continents, or for none. period. if you really want, you can have a world wide quallification tournament, but let's not be ridiculous, shall we?
and FIFA is not an example. besides, football is the sport of fortune. and it is way too poppular to resits the temptation of additional matches. I personally think this system is stupid. no way a basketball national team could gather several times during the season for a single match. and this is the only way it can work for football - scattered matches throughout the year. if there was a tournament right before the Cup in FIFA (as FIBA suggests), no one would accept that, that's just uncomparable. besides, don't forget that footballers do not participate in the Olympics.
sure, some reforms probably shoudl be taking palce sometime in the future, but this suggestion with Europe is an antireform and a suicide for FIBA.
k
09-19-2005, 06:20 AM
Why shouldnt be qualification tourmanent and pick teams from regional competitions? Qualifications tournament would be a kind of a small regional tournament before the world or olympics tournament. Also that way you have surely the teams that deserve to be there and will be competive. For example if Germany qualify to world championship and Dirk wants to rest next year we will just have an average to bad team in tourmanent instead of having a more competive team.
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
and FIFA is not an example. besides, football is the sport of fortune. and it is way too poppular to resits the temptation of additional matches. I personally think this system is stupid. no way a basketball national team could gather several times during the season for a single match. and this is the only way it can work for football - scattered matches throughout the year. if there was a tournament right before the Cup in FIFA (as FIBA suggests), no one would accept that, that's just uncomparable. besides, don't forget that footballers do not participate in the Olympics.
sure, some reforms probably shoudl be taking palce sometime in the future, but this suggestion with Europe is an antireform and a suicide for FIBA.
k
hagakure
09-19-2005, 09:18 AM
Why shouldnt be qualification tourmanent and pick teams from regional competitions? Qualifications tournament would be a kind of a small regional tournament before the world or olympics tournament. Also that way you have surely the teams that deserve to be there and will be competive. For example if Germany qualify to world championship and Dirk wants to rest next year we will just have an average to bad team in tourmanent instead of having a more competive team.
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
It isn't the same. In basketball teams play many games and are very tired already. There's also the issue with NBA players who won't be able to play.
09-19-2005, 09:18 AM
Why shouldnt be qualification tourmanent and pick teams from regional competitions? Qualifications tournament would be a kind of a small regional tournament before the world or olympics tournament. Also that way you have surely the teams that deserve to be there and will be competive. For example if Germany qualify to world championship and Dirk wants to rest next year we will just have an average to bad team in tourmanent instead of having a more competive team.
Since football is most popular sport in world basketball should copy some structures from football. Wouldnt be easier for FIFA not to have qualification games for world cup but just pick the best of regional tournaments? But FIFA wants qualifications, no wildcards, no automatic qualification even for the holder!!
It isn't the same. In basketball teams play many games and are very tired already. There's also the issue with NBA players who won't be able to play.
akis71
09-19-2005, 06:05 PM
It isn't the same. In basketball teams play many games and are very tired already. There's also the issue with NBA players who won't be able to play.
The amount of games of top european basketball teams and top european football teams are almost same.
Maybe the top spanish and italian basketball teams play some more games than the top football teams in those countries but it is just in that 2 countries. In rest top basketball countries the teams in league are less. Also the nature of games is different. In basketball time is less, players can relax during games, they dont suffer from weather conditions and the most important is that basketball games except playoffs are not must win games when in football every point is important.
NBA almost ends same period to european leagues usually at end of june while basketball competitions are at september. Supposing that there are 6 spots for european teams for next world championship is it so hard to have 6 groups of 4 teams to play to qualify? it is just 3 games and same happened for eurobasket and isreal got the last spot. it is not big deal
09-19-2005, 06:05 PM
It isn't the same. In basketball teams play many games and are very tired already. There's also the issue with NBA players who won't be able to play.
The amount of games of top european basketball teams and top european football teams are almost same.
Maybe the top spanish and italian basketball teams play some more games than the top football teams in those countries but it is just in that 2 countries. In rest top basketball countries the teams in league are less. Also the nature of games is different. In basketball time is less, players can relax during games, they dont suffer from weather conditions and the most important is that basketball games except playoffs are not must win games when in football every point is important.
NBA almost ends same period to european leagues usually at end of june while basketball competitions are at september. Supposing that there are 6 spots for european teams for next world championship is it so hard to have 6 groups of 4 teams to play to qualify? it is just 3 games and same happened for eurobasket and isreal got the last spot. it is not big deal