Is Efes Pilsen an elite team?

[Victorious]

3 Years ago ? I thought it was last year.Anyway , you cannot compare teams like Efes with PAO...

Maybe the right thing to say is: You can not compare this years Efes with last years PAO.


Sorry Victorious, I separated a portion of the messages from "Second Round Game 4" thread to talk about Efes Pilsen, and the first post had to be yours... Sariss

[gravity]

3 Years ago ? I thought it was last year.Anyway , you cannot compare teams like Efes with PAO...

Why i dont compare Efes with Pao Are they god or something?????

I dont see any difference between their rosters or strength. only Efes have played bad, Panathinaikos have played good.

so, Efes can play good too. example?? They played good against Tau twice. And in my opinion Tau far better team than Pao. (CSKA is best) And they played good against Olympiakos too.

i think their problem is "concentration for team play". because of Jenkins virus.

we must wait match..

ps. yes, last year. i wrote another thing but i deleted. i think this part left...

[turkishpower]

3 Years ago ? I thought it was last year.Anyway , you cannot compare teams like Efes with PAO...

Maybe the right thing to say is: You can not compare this years Efes with last years PAO.

I agree with Victorious.

Yeah, that was what I meant. But still, PAO is a level higher than Efes in European Basketball.
But I am staying stable on what I said. Efes cannot do a 3-0 in the second round for 2 reasons :
1)The way they play. Sorry , but Efes is very bad this year.


2)PAO may had a 0-3 loosing streak but the margin was a -12 or something ,not -40. Even with a 3-3 it's still difficult to qualify.


I partially agree with that. PAO is one of the for biggest, TAU-CSKA-Maccabi-PAO. where as teams like Efes, Barca follow them but the gap is very small. If you take a look at the last decade, you can not say PAO is far better than Efes, except this year.

C'mon. That's ridiculous.You cannot compare PAO's roster and strength with Efes' ,at least this year.PAO is the greatest favorite to win Euroleague . On the other hand,Efes is struggling to make a victory in TOP-16.

At least this year is the keyword and you are right about this year. PAO's overall roster strength is better than Efes' this year, even though Efes has the edge about the inside players.(frontcourt)
If you consider the last decade though, I can count you names where Efes would dumb PAO's roster at anygiven time, Mehmet Okur, Hedo Turkoglu, Mirsad Turkcan, Ibrahim Kutluay, Huseyin Besok, Naumoski, Drobnjak and many others... In the last decade or so, you can not say PAO has been stronger.
This year, you are right but only this year...


PAO is not the greatest favorite this year, like other years. CSKA and TAU (CSKA for sure) are ahead of PAO.

Now, that's a silly comment. We all know Efes will at least get a win or 2. There is no such thing (even now) for Efes not to get a victory.


All in all, I strongly believe Efes will win this game, either easily or it'll be hard for Efes. But PAO is definitely not the favorite...

[c_fish]

If you consider the last decade though, I can count you names where Efes would dumb PAO's roster at anygiven time, Mehmet Okur, Hedo Turkoglu, Mirsad Turkcan, Ibrahim Kutluay, Huseyin Besok, Naumoski, Drobnjak and many others... In the last decade or so, you can not say PAO has been stronger.
This year, you are right but only this year...

Roster alone isn't a guarantee that your team will play good (see Efes this year).Still,I guess Vrankovic,Dinkins,Radja,Scott,Bodiroga,Koch,Wilkin s,Ibo ,Rebracca,Alvertis,Katash,Mulaomerovic etc (most in their prime unlike Okur or Turkoglou) dont ring a bell?
More importantly,what has Efes managed these last 10 years with its superior roster,and what has Pao with his inferior?I rest my case

PAO is not the greatest favorite this year, like other years. CSKA and TAU (CSKA for sure) are ahead of PAO.

At this time true,but teams dont play with the same efficiency throughout the year.Pao fans should remember last year.We don't know how good these teams will be playing in a couple of months though.

[gravity]

C'mon. That's ridiculous.You cannot compare PAO's roster and strength with Efes' ,at least this year.PAO is the greatest favorite to win Euroleague . On the other hand,Efes is struggling to make a victory in TOP-16.

Before euroleague started, Efes one of the favorite of euroleague with Pao or others which they only looking to rosters.
Today Efes is in a bad shape because of some problems. But every team can live same problems... This doesnt mean, this team can lose their strength. They only need to fix their problems. i think, they fix their problems at the last quarter of Prokom match. When jenkins out!

We saw this against Barcelona too. it's a normal lose, not Efes's bad game lost...

But interesting point, while everybody clearly say "CSKA and TAU favorite" , how can you say "Pao greatest favorite" ???




ps. i dont want to make here a Turkish-Greek thread. so, I'll not write again until end of the games...

[CG]

I dont see any difference between their rosters or strength. only Efes have played bad, Panathinaikos have played good....

man are you kidding me same rosters?

so, Efes can play good too. example?? They played good against Tau twice. And in my opinion Tau far better team than Pao. (CSKA is best) And they played good against Olympiakos too. ...

i respect your opinion but in the end will see who is right.But TAU and CSKA are really looking good.They are really very strong

[CG]

But interesting point, while everybody clearly say "CSKA and TAU favorite" , how can you say "Pao greatest favorite" ???

everybody?...thats strange i thought only 2 turks said that

[Victorious]

Atm CSKA looks to be the favourite, though I believe that PAO can beat them. Pao beat them twice last year (Athens+Moscow) and I believe that PAO is the only team that CSKA really fears. Not because PAO is better overall, nothing of the kind, but simply because the chemistry of both teams is in favour of PAO.

I remember that CSKA fans were really relieved last year when PAO was eliminated by TAU. They were correct. Barcelona and TAU were a better match for them.

In my opinion, TAU would worry PAO more than CSKA. Even so, since they play the F4 in Athens, I would still go for PAO.

CSKA, TAU and PAO are the favourites. No doubt about it.

[FRANKY 13]

PAO is at the same level with CSKA and TAU.

However PAO is the favorite because OAKA is a decisive factor. So simple as that.

[turkishpower]

Before the beggining of the Eroleague the favorites were PAO,CSKA,TAU,Barca and OLY. And don't talk about rosters.Efes roster is clearly one step below of that of PAO. That's for sure. I may respect Efes as a team but this year they are playing pretty bad. And Barca isn't that strong team.



"Everybody" ? Who's "everybody" ? Clearly not you or the other 2 persons who hate PAO in this forum.



I agree. I'll end this here too.

Well, before the season, if you are putting Barca and Oly as the favorites, Efes is definitely up there also. I was laughing my @ss off when I saw especially Oly up on your list, but not Efes

[Juan Carlos Nadal]

Guys, the above few pages are a perfect demonstration of one's subjectiveness and centrism around their own team. You guys understandably know a lot about your team, but arguably very little about other teams. As a concequence, there is a distortion of reality in your perception of teams' strength and potential. "Team A cannot afford to lose this game because such and such". Ok, fair enough. But what about Team B? Are they going to be a passive factor?

Of course Olympiacos was a greater favourite than Efes at the begging of the season and with the only criterion the names in their roster. I honesty don't see what is so bizzare about that. TP, if you wish you can go and find the prediction threads before the beggining of the season and see which teams people labelled as "favourites". Oly was there almost every time, Efes (especially after they signed Jenkins and lost Granger to a long-term injury) did not feature in these lists. And if you don't "trust" IBN's poll, check the EL.net's poll that feature the player's opinions.

As for whether PAO is in the same level as TAU and CSKA and whether the fact that the F4 is taking place at their home gives them any advantage... Well, my personal opinion is that no it doesn't. I would still rank CSKA and TAU a slight touch above the Athenians, evenmoreso due to the lack of pressure (or relative pressure compared to PAO).

[Zachos]

Guys, the above few pages are a perfect demonstration of one's subjectiveness and centrism around their own team. You guys understandably know a lot about your team, but arguably very little about other teams. As a concequence, there is a distortion of reality in your perception of teams' strength and potential. "Team A cannot afford to lose this game because such and such". Ok, fair enough. But what about Team B? Are they going to be a passive factor?


As for whether PAO is in the same level as TAU and CSKA and whether the fact that the F4 is taking place at their home gives them any advantage... Well, my personal opinion is that no it doesn't. I would still rank CSKA and TAU a slight touch above the Athenians, evenmoreso due to the lack of pressure (or relative pressure compared to PAO).

I admit that I have not seen TAU this year, and only saw CSKA against Oly. My impression from following PAO and reading about these teams is that they seem to be better than PAO, on average, because PAO's performance has a high variance.

IMO, lot deppends on if PAO will apprear good in the final four. In a war of attrition (with very strong defence on both ends of the court), I hope-I am not objective- that the team with the deepest roster prevails.

[jaka13]

I just read the comments and giggled without sence...
How can one say that efes has the same roster with Panathinaikos?
Are you kidding me?
As said above Pao is a light year in front of efes.
And not only this year my turk friends. every year.
I can't find a single game that Panathinaikos lost to efes and had problems after it.
Nevertheless i can find numerous games, that Pao won efes, and that cost them.As an example you can take the two participations of efes in the f4s.
From whom lost?
You can talk ---- (no masking please) without having facts.
as far as the best roaster thing, you can advise the IBN's roaster.
Guess whose first.
As far as the thursday's game, thinkins as much impartial as i can,
i think that the percentages are so:
Efes - Panathinaikos 40 - 60

P.S.: You can't also say that efes had better players in the past.
Players like these mentioned, can't be concerned with players like Radja,Vrankovic,Galis,Giannakis,Bodiroga,Scot,Volk ov,Kattash,Rebraca and even Alvertis,Diamantidis and many more contemporary players of our team.
Even Drazen Perovic could have played in Pao the time that efes was a mediocre team.
In addition, the history of the two teams talks on its own.

[turkishpower]

whatever, we should all talk about this after thursday's game Then, the loser side won't be able to post for a day or two I guess

[wardjdim]

P.S.: You can't also say that efes had better players in the past.
Players like these mentioned, can't be concerned with players like Radja,Vrankovic,Galis,Giannakis,Bodiroga,Scot,Volk ov,Kattash,Rebraca and even Alvertis,Diamantidis and many more contemporary players of our team.
Even Drazen Perovic could have played in Pao the time that efes was a mediocre team.
In addition, the history of the two teams talks on its own.

Efes has been a great team for a longer stretch, but Panathinaikos is a top-3 Euro team for the last 10 years.
However, guys like Galis and Yannakis (joined Pana at the end of their time), Alvertis (that was a joke, right?), Kattash (never significant for them) and Petrovic (if there is no contract, then there is just interest. Drazen was no crazy to return to Europe at that stage of his career in the NBA. Only Greek/Green newspapers were thinking of it as realistic).