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View Full Version : The upcomimg merger between oceania and asia, FIBA is destroying bball



sexylebanese69
09-29-2015, 08:49 PM
The next world cup is going to be held in 2019 with an increase to 32 teams.

7 teams from asia-pacific, 5 from africa, 7 from americas.

I dont think this is good for the world cup to have 5 teams from asia and africa each, 3 is the best number imo. Oceania should have 2 and stay by themselves.

Also americas is argentina, brazil, now emerging canada. With periodic good teams from PR, but not 7 teams! I think 5 is fair.

Now this is NOT the biggets problem, but the Olympics!

Fiba and the ioc is STILL insisting to have 12 teams in the olympics.

Now with the merger of oceania and asia you will have only ONE team (australia most likely) from asia-pacific. 1 from africa, 1 from americas, 1 from europe PLUS the first seven teams in the world cup in 2019 , plus the host in 2020!

Why SEVEN first teams from the world cup and not Six ?

Six first (mostly euros+usa)
Host
Africa
Europe
Americas
Asia
Oceania

Having SEVEN is like saying screw Asia we dont need you! Just bring the aussies from asia-pacific, which is a terrible terrible idea to merge the 2.

Just like having TOO many teams from one continent is bad, its WORSE than not having a single team from asia in the olympics !

Joško Poljak Fan
09-29-2015, 09:17 PM
Fiba has no say regarding the number of teams for the Olympics, they wanted to reach 16 teams in the past, but the olympic comitee disagreed. I do understand your point there in case Oceania and Asia get merged, Australia is in an advantage there.

I dissagree about 7 teams from Asia or America's is too much though.
The same has been said about eurobasket being enlarged from 16 to 24 teams, yet those 8 new teams offered some great upsets out there.
Macedonia 4th in 2011 and Finland 9th
Ukraine 6th in 2013 and Belgium 9th
Czech republic 7th in 2015
...and probably none of those teams would have made it to the eurobasket if it wasn't for that expansion.
There was a lot of talk back than that by expanding the tournament the quality level will drop, now there is basicaly noone that would want it to switch back as those 17th-24th team are prooving to be competitive when given a chance. Fiba was encouraged by the succes of the enlarged eurobasket and I believe they rightfully expect the same outcome from enlarged world championship.

I believe Mexico, Venezuela, Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico deserve a chance there just as numerous Asian teams do, for the same reason.

locdogjr
09-30-2015, 01:12 AM
With the new qualifying format, who knows? The Aussies may not be able to get their NBA players for the mid-season qualifying games, but perhaps the other Asian countries without NBA players will be able to get their best players together.

ctongco
09-30-2015, 04:52 AM
Expanding the tournament and giving teams to higher level of competition elevates their own skill. This isn't a bad thing.

Mindozas
09-30-2015, 05:55 AM
Fiba and the ioc is STILL insisting to have 12 teams in the olympics.

Now with the merger of oceania and asia you will have only ONE team (australia most likely) from asia-pacific. 1 from africa, 1 from americas, 1 from europe PLUS the first seven teams in the world cup in 2019 , plus the host in 2020!

Why SEVEN first teams from the world cup and not Six ?

Six first (mostly euros+usa)
Host
Africa
Europe
Americas
Asia
Oceania

Having SEVEN is like saying screw Asia we dont need you! Just bring the aussies from asia-pacific, which is a terrible terrible idea to merge the 2.

Just like having TOO many teams from one continent is bad, its WORSE than not having a single team from asia in the olympics !

8168

Look at this

judasmartel
09-30-2015, 06:04 AM
8168

Look at this

That only means AUS and NZL cannot directly qualify for the Olympics at the same time, and practically only one Asian team can be in the Olympics, because there's no way an Asian team will ever win an Olympic Qualifying Tournament.

Sure, more Asian slots have been opened with the Asia-Oceania merger, but more EU and Pan-American slots have been opened as well.

On the brighter side, it will expose more Asian teams to higher level of competition.

Mindozas
09-30-2015, 06:21 AM
That only means AUS and NZL cannot directly qualify for the Olympics at the same time, and practically only one Asian team can be in the Olympics, because there's no way an Asian team will ever win an Olympic Qualifying Tournament.

Sure, more Asian slots have been opened with the Asia-Oceania merger, but more EU and Pan-American slots have been opened as well.

On the brighter side, it will expose more Asian teams to higher level of competition.

Well, I posted this cause OP thought that Asia won't have any place in Olympics at all, after merging with Oceania, but nothing will change in this direction, regarding any continent - just direct qualification will go throught World Cup instead of continental champs. I actually find this change quite dumb - selecting best continent teams in world wide event... The luck factor comes into play even more.
Regarding number of places, if we are talking about 12 teams tournament, I'm sorry, but that's all that Asia can ask for (for now). Europe f.e. could complain more here

judasmartel
09-30-2015, 06:32 AM
Well, I posted this cause OP thought that Asia won't have any place in Olympics at all, after merging with Oceania, but nothing will change in this direction, regarding any continent - just direct qualification will go throught World Cup instead of continental champs. I actually find this change quite dumb - selecting best continent teams in world wide event... The luck factor comes into play even more.
Regarding number of places, if we are talking about 12 teams tournament, I'm sorry, but that's all that Asia can ask for (for now). Europe f.e. could complain more here

It gives the unwanted risk of Asian teams playing only good enough to qualify for the Worlds (top 3 in each group in Round 2 + winner of the 7th place game among #4 teams will qualify, after all), then go BEAST MODE from there to try and get that lone Olympic spot via the WC.

Mindozas
09-30-2015, 06:42 AM
It gives the unwanted risk of Asian teams playing only good enough to qualify for the Worlds (top 3 in each group in Round 2 + winner of the 7th place game among #4 teams will qualify, after all), then go BEAST MODE from there to try and get that lone Olympic via the WC.

Yes, but it's like that in any continent. FIBA tried hard to make World Cup more valuable and they did so

Steadysoul
09-30-2015, 06:22 PM
Bottom line,
something had to be done about the nonsense that was FIBA Oceania. For the longest time only two teams have regularly participated.

sexylebanese69
09-30-2015, 06:59 PM
8168

Look at this


8168

Look at this


8168

Look at this

Ok! I thought the first 7 finishers from the 2019 WC will directly qualify to the olympics and asia would be excluded (more or less) if it was asia-pacific qualifiers with australia. I thought it was the champions from 4 zones, africa, euro,americas,asia-pacific + host + 7 teams from WC, in the order they finish from each zone.

Now it makes more sense to include 5 teams from africa and asia each, and 7 from americas and 12 from europe in WC. So the world cup will serve as olympic qualifier. But the honor of winning your continental championship will only be every 4 years instead of every 2 years.

But the chart says every team plays 1 home game and 1 away game, it only takes 2 games to qualify to the world cup ? And the qualification span is 2 years! So they're trying to copy FIFA ?

Mindozas
09-30-2015, 07:57 PM
Ok! I thought the first 7 finishers from the 2019 WC will directly qualify to the olympics and asia would be excluded (more or less) if it was asia-pacific qualifiers with australia. I thought it was the champions from 4 zones, africa, euro,americas,asia-pacific + host + 7 teams from WC, in the order they finish from each zone.

Now it makes more sense to include 5 teams from africa and asia each, and 7 from americas and 12 from europe in WC. So the world cup will serve as olympic qualifier. But the honor of winning your continental championship will only be every 4 years instead of every 2 years.

But the chart says every team plays 1 home game and 1 away game, it only takes 2 games to qualify to the world cup ? And the qualification span is 2 years! So they're trying to copy FIFA ?

Hm, don't know what chart did you look at, but in Asian World Cup qualifiers there will be two rounds, at first 4 groups of 4 (6 games for each team), then 2 groups of 6 (another 6 games)

locdogjr
10-01-2015, 01:07 AM
Before this thread, I thought I had it figured out.

I am even more confused now.

I wish the NBA would come in and takeover international basketball, cut this FIBA bullshit. I put up with it because I love international basketball but FIBA reffing, planning, and systems all seem so confused and unprofessional.

Federoy
10-01-2015, 01:36 AM
Expanding the tournament and giving teams to higher level of competition elevates their own skill. This isn't a bad thing.

I agree. Expanding the tournament allows countries that otherwise wouldn't get an opportunity to play against elite level competition a chance to grow and improve.

judasmartel
10-01-2015, 04:03 AM
Before this thread, I thought I had it figured out.

I am even more confused now.

I wish the NBA would come in and takeover international basketball, cut this FIBA bullshit. I put up with it because I love international basketball but FIBA reffing, planning, and systems all seem so confused and unprofessional.

And then what, do a QUADRUPLE ROUND ROBIN for every single basketball NT in the world in an NBA-style home-and-away format?

That's insane, man.

locdogjr
10-01-2015, 05:14 AM
And then what, do a QUADRUPLE ROUND ROBIN for every single basketball NT in the world in an NBA-style home-and-away format?

That's insane, man.

lol

Well, my main concern is that if FIBA wants to have qualifying during the NBA season, no NBA players will be able to participate.

With no NBA, NCAA, or possibly even Euroleague players, how is this new qualifying format going to work? Maybe Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Angola, etc can shut down their nationally leagues to do it, but the best players for the most part will not be allowed to participate. How will this new qualifying work if that is the case?

eshmawi
10-01-2015, 05:21 AM
Let me get this right, there are 7 spots to qualify to world cup from Asia????
lol. This is good for us, i think... But not good for others, because reality is Asia is the weakest basketball region.Every world cup, our teams finish dead last.

If Australia, New Zealand join... its still 5 spot...

judasmartel
10-01-2015, 05:25 AM
lol

Well, my main concern is that if FIBA wants to have qualifying during the NBA season, no NBA players will be able to participate.

With no NBA, NCAA, or possibly even Euroleague players, how is this new qualifying format going to work? Maybe Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Angola, etc can shut down their nationally leagues to do it, but the best players for the most part will not be allowed to participate. How will this new qualifying work if that is the case?

Not happening in our case. Our national league is like 10 months long, and the new FIBA schedule smacks right into the middle of the season.

I don't get why FIBA has to make FIVE separate qualifying windows spanning 18 months, when the entire EuroBasket qualification tournament only takes ONE time window spanning like 1-3 months iirc, and that's a lot of home and away games compared to the current qualifiers with only one host nation.

judasmartel
10-01-2015, 05:26 AM
Let me get this right, there are 7 spots to qualify to world cup from Asia????
lol. This is good for us, i think... But not good for others, because reality is Asia is the weakest basketball region.Every world cup, our teams finish dead last.

If Australia, New Zealand join... its still 5 spot...

Yes, still 5 Asian spots with OZ and NZ joining us. Still good for Asia, it will up the level of competition, though it doesn't look apparent at first.

locdogjr
10-01-2015, 06:09 AM
Not happening in our case. Our national league is like 10 months long, and the new FIBA schedule smacks right into the middle of the season.

I don't get why FIBA has to make FIVE separate qualifying windows spanning 18 months, when the entire EuroBasket qualification tournament only takes ONE time window spanning like 1-3 months iirc, and that's a lot of home and away games compared to the current qualifiers with only one host nation.

I love the theory of it. Such as in soccer, we would get to see meaningful national basketball year round. Every 3 months you'd get a Gilas game someplace in the Philippines, this increasing every national teams' visibility in their home country. The Jones cup in Taiwan is great for a week, but if FIBA could have 5 more games throughout the year here then it keeps FIBA on our minds as opposed to an every 2 years for 2 weeks in the summer thing.

judasmartel
10-01-2015, 06:14 AM
I love the theory of it. Such as in soccer, we would get to see meaningful national basketball year round. Every 3 months you'd get a Gilas game someplace in the Philippines, this increasing every national teams' visibility in their home country. The Jones cup in Taiwan is great for a week, but if FIBA could have 5 more games throughout the year here then it keeps FIBA on our minds as opposed to an every 2 years for 2 weeks in the summer thing.

At least we have something else to watch back home other than the NBA and the PBA all year round.

I love the theory, too, but I just don't know how the NBA players could suit up for their home nations during the WC qualifiers that way, considering the qualifiers is now the first step for Olympic qualification, and NBA players WANT to play in the Olympics.

locdogjr
10-01-2015, 06:33 AM
At least we have something else to watch back home other than the NBA and the PBA all year round.

I love the theory, too, but I just don't know how the NBA players could suit up for their home nations during the WC qualifiers that way, considering the qualifiers is now the first step for Olympic qualification, and NBA players WANT to play in the Olympics.

Exactly. I have heard very little discussion of how this is actually going to work. FIBA actually hired a FIFA dude to takeover and implement this system when they were thinking about it, so he just copied the FIFA model essentially. By the time the 2019 qualifiers come around, we shall see what happens. We can all enjoy the current system until 2016 and hope there is a plan in place to make this actually work.

mojo13
10-02-2015, 04:45 PM
Bottom line,
something had to be done about the nonsense that was FIBA Oceania. For the longest time only two teams have regularly participated.

Very much in agreement with this comment. FIBA Oceania has been a joke for a very long time.


The new format does hurt the teams with the most NBA players as you can be very sure they won't be released in mid-season to play for their national teams. Countries with good depth and domestic leagues that they can bully into releasing players will have an advantage. National teams with strong coaching and systems in place will be at an advantage as well. It is going to be tough for countries to try to drag guys from all over the world to come home mid-season for training and a game or two. Was the current system so bad? I know it is not perfect, but summer tournaments when the main leagues are offseason seems to be doing ok.

I am truly disappointed as a Canadian to see this format change just when we have a large crop of young NBA players. They will do us little good now - fortunately we have some growing depth too and maybe the players in Europe will be released to play. Perhaps the low level NBA players / borderline d-leaguers will be released to play as well?

judasmartel
10-02-2015, 05:11 PM
Very much in agreement with this comment. FIBA Oceania has been a joke for a very long time.


The new format does hurt the teams with the most NBA players as you can be very sure they won't be released in mid-season to play for their national teams. Countries with good depth and domestic leagues that they can bully into releasing players will have an advantage. National teams with strong coaching and systems in place will be at an advantage as well. It is going to be tough for countries to try to drag guys from all over the world to come home mid-season for training and a game or two. Was the current system so bad? I know it is not perfect, but summer tournaments when the main leagues are offseason seems to be doing ok.

I am truly disappointed as a Canadian to see this format change just when we have a large crop of young NBA players. They will do us little good now - fortunately we have some growing depth too and maybe the players in Europe will be released to play. Perhaps the low level NBA players / borderline d-leaguers will be released to play as well?

FIBA probably wants basketball all year round, not just every summer or so.

But then again, FIBA will never be like FIFA, even if they try to be like FIFA.

Mindozas
10-02-2015, 05:56 PM
FIBA probably wants basketball all year round, not just every summer or so.

But then again, FIBA will never be like FIFA, even if they try to be like FIFA.

All they wanted was to make World Cup as prestigious as possible. For that they made it Olympic qualifiers as they realises that they can't compete with Olympics itself and secondary quite drastically downgraded the prestige of continental championships

judasmartel
10-02-2015, 06:04 PM
All they wanted was to make World Cup as prestigious as possible. For that they made it Olympic qualifiers as they realises that they can't compete with Olympics itself and secondary quite drastically downgraded the prestige of continental championships

If anything, since the continental championships right after the Olympic years is now non-bearing, it at least has some use for development of young players, at least in the Asia Pacific anyway.

Mindozas
10-02-2015, 06:24 PM
If anything, since the continental championships right after the Olympic years is now non-bearing, it at least has some use for development of young players, at least in the Asia Pacific anyway.

In Europe or Americas interest in post-Olympics tournaments decreased heavily in last decade, basically with salaries goin' up so drastically, more and more players started simply to skip those, cause wanted to save themselves for clubs and play for NT only when it matters the most. The same fate happened to World Cup. As I remember, 2002 probably was the last tournament that brought all the stars, in 2006 even if it still was really good, but there were first worrisome signs that players preffer to rest, and save themeselfes for more important 2007 as Olympic qualifier. Lithuania was good example of that with atleast few of our star player missing. Now the situation in even worse. In 2013 there were so many missings that it was hard to count, probably some 30 players, who could make some noise missed it, including some big stars like Dirk, Pau, Kirilenko. Now I don't know what's gonna happen. There'll be two places to OQT, but how much players will care for that, when you will quite easily grab it via World Cup, atleast for European sides. Afterall 16 teams from there will make it...

judasmartel
10-02-2015, 06:31 PM
In Europe or Americas interest in post-Olympics tournaments decreased heavily in last decade, basically with salaries goin' up so drastically, more and more players started simply to skip those, cause wanted to save themselves for clubs and play for NT only when it matters the most. The same fate happened to World Cup. As I remember, 2002 probably was the last tournament that brought all the stars, in 2006 even if it still was really good, but there were first worrisome signs that players preffer to rest, and save themeselfes for more important 2007 as Olympic qualifier. Lithuania was good example of that with atleast few of our star player missing. Now the situation in even worse. In 2013 there were so many missings that it was hard to count, probably some 30 players, who could make some noise missed it, including some big stars like Dirk, Pau, Kirilenko. Now I don't know what's gonna happen. There'll be two places to OQT, but how much players will care for that, when you will quite easily grab it via World Cup, atleast for European sides. Afterall 16 teams from there will make it...

That's why I said the now non-bearing continental championships after Olympic years might have some use for developing young players. Doesn't matter if the stars are not there, but since EC is EC and AC is AC, well, yeah. Continental championships are now pretty useless otherwise anyway.

Modis
10-03-2015, 07:12 PM
Bottom line,
something had to be done about the nonsense that was FIBA Oceania. For the longest time only two teams have regularly participated.


Australia wins every year this oceania tournament. Literally every year .

Steadysoul
10-03-2015, 11:16 PM
Australia wins every year this oceania tournament. Literally every year .

Even when it doesn't matter who wins. Literally win or lose both qualify for the World Cup.

Kokey Fanatic
10-04-2015, 07:46 PM
The most BS thing about this major overhaul is the change in schedule, it literally clashes with major professional leagues of participating countries, its like they want to go back to the time when only amateur players are allowed to play which will just degrade the level of competition and lose more fans