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mojo13
07-23-2015, 07:01 PM
Can we get a subforum started?!? About time we start talking about it!

usagre
07-24-2015, 12:11 PM
It will be interesting to see if a Canadian roster loaded with young nba talent can translate into a great team.

Andy7984
07-24-2015, 02:44 PM
Talent wise, I would say Canada and Brazil are the favorites assuming both have their full squads. If Brazil officially gets that automatic host country berth, we may not see their full squad in this tournament.

Mindozas
07-24-2015, 03:00 PM
Any news about preliminar rosters/missings? So far saw only Uruguaian one with 15 players there, tho Batista bein' doubtfull due to insurance problems. Also some month ago there were Panamas and DR lists with around 30+ players each, but after that nothing

Dtown
07-24-2015, 03:28 PM
Canada is highly interesting, they have the talent to win but the international experience is a question. If Brazil gets an auto-spot I can see them qualifying for the Olympics, if not...well it will be something to watch.

JGX
07-25-2015, 03:31 AM
FIBA playing games with the Brazil auto-spot like they did with GB is a total joke.

Hard to say anything before we know the rosters but never count out Argentina.

usagre
07-25-2015, 03:55 AM
FIBA playing games with the Brazil auto-spot like they did with GB is a total joke.

Hard to say anything before we know the rosters but never count out Argentina.

Let me be the first to count out Argentina. I think they are finished and will not qualify no matter who their roster consists of.
It was a wonderful run for them but they are still relying on players from a decade ago.

Mindozas
07-25-2015, 04:50 AM
FIBA playing games with the Brazil auto-spot like they did with GB is a total joke.

I guess everything will be solved when (if) Brazil will pay the debt to FIBA

guilherme.rcf
07-26-2015, 08:06 PM
I guess everything will be solved when (if) Brazil will pay the debt to FIBA

The brazilian basketball confederation is a shame. But Nike and Bradesco (2nd biggest brazilian private bank), the sponsors of the team, will pay the debt.

If we get the automatic berth, I hope we send the squad that played the pan games to Mexico with just 2 or 3 changes.

Raulzinho, Alex Garcia and Marquinhos would be fine.

Steadysoul
07-26-2015, 10:41 PM
FIBA playing games with the Brazil auto-spot like they did with GB is a total joke.

Hard to say anything before we know the rosters but never count out Argentina.

I can understand FIBA's position in both situations. GB doesn't really have a basketball team and after the Olympics they seemingly cut funding for the National Team.

Brazil needs to pay what it owes. plain and simple.

JGX
07-31-2015, 05:11 AM
Dominican training camp invites. Some players have not yet confirmed their participation. Horford is out.


Francisco García y Eulis Báez lideran el grupo de los que hasta ahora han dado el sí al llamado de la Selección, donde también se incluyen Eloy Vargas, Víctor Liz, Edgar Sosa, James Feldeine, Orlando Sánchez, Gerardo Suero, Manuel Fortuna y Edward Santana.

También Luis Flores, Rigoberto Mendoza, Ronald Ramón, Juan Miguel Suero, Dagoberto Peña, Juan José García y Kelvin Peña. Algunos de ellos ya se encuentran en Atlanta participando en entrenamientos voluntarios.

El resto de los convocados pendientes a confirmar su participación son: Karl-Anthony Towns, Al Horford, Juan Coronado, Luis David Montero, Ronald Roberts, Charlie Villanueva y Manny Quezada.

http://www.cdn.com.do/noticias/2015/07/28/rd-convoca-a-24-con-miras-al-preolimpico-2015/

JGX
07-31-2015, 05:24 AM
Puerto Rico squad for training camp in Louisville:


El grupo quedó compuesto por los bases José Juan Barea, Carlos Rivera, Guillermo Díaz; los escoltas: Larry Ayuso, John Holland, Isaac Sosa, Mike Rosario, los aleros: Maurice Harkless, Ángel Vassallo y Richard Chaney; los delanteros: Ramón Clemente, Devon Collier, Renaldo Balkman y Kevin Young; los centros: Luis Villafañe y Jorge Bryan Díaz.

http://fibaamericas.com/noticiasread4.asp?r=36077E0E6E33480A87A4374F128458 AF

Mindozas
07-31-2015, 05:38 AM
Puerto Rico squad for training camp in Louisville:



http://fibaamericas.com/noticiasread4.asp?r=36077E0E6E33480A87A4374F128458 AF

No Arroyo? Or he will join later?

Andy7984
07-31-2015, 02:07 PM
No Arroyo. I think I read somewhere that the coach, Rick Pitino, did not see Arroyo on the team since Arroyo is already 36 years old.

mojo13
07-31-2015, 07:38 PM
Mo Harkless is a nice add. I never knew he was from PR.
When did that happen? Is he naturalized? Wouldn't he need to live there for that?

Andy7984
07-31-2015, 08:08 PM
Mo Harkless is a nice add. I never knew he was from PR.
When did that happen? Is he naturalized? Wouldn't he need to live there for that?

He was born in New York, but his grandmother is from Puerto Rico.

mojo13
07-31-2015, 09:58 PM
He was born in New York, but his grandmother is from Puerto Rico.

One grandparent gets you the right to play for another country? Interesting.
Seems a little desperate maybe? Maybe Lebron or Durant has a Canadian granny in their past - I should do some digging.

On a serious note - it may be worthwhile to do that research on some midlevel players that may never play for Team USA. Perhaps they do have some Canadian history that can be exploited. However, Canada is not to apt to dishing out citizenship quite so disgracefully as some of these countries. I am looking at you Philippines!

Is PR even a country? Do you they have separate or distinct citizenship (or any identification) from the US? Or can they really just snag anyone who may have a loose thread or two to the island?

Just curious - not hating. Do what you gotta do as long as it is in the rules...

Andy7984
07-31-2015, 10:41 PM
Harkless' situation is actually not uncommon in FIBA tournaments. If I remember correctly, Nick Calathes is a similar situation. Calathes plays for the Greek national team because his great-grandfather was born in Greece, even though he, his parents, and his grandparents were born in the US. There is a whole thread debating this type of situation: http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?27726-Player-naturalisations

mojo13
07-31-2015, 11:09 PM
Harkless' situation is actually not uncommon in FIBA tournaments. If I remember correctly, Nick Calathes is a similar situation. Calathes plays for the Greek national team because his great-grandfather was born in Greece, even though he, his parents, and his grandparents were born in the US. There is a whole thread debating this type of situation: http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?27726-Player-naturalisations

It is pretty crazy and loads of grey area.
This is from a couple years ago, but an article showing leading up to the 2014 World Cup no less than 66 US born players played for 37 different national teams (than the USA). It is almost free agency.
http://hoopshype.com/2013/09/04/plenty-of-americans-in-fiba-tournaments/

JGX
08-01-2015, 07:23 PM
Is PR even a country? Do you they have separate or distinct citizenship (or any identification) from the US? Or can they really just snag anyone who may have a loose thread or two to the island?


FIBA Eligibility regulations for dependent territories:


Special Provisions for Players from Dependent Territories

25. In order to represent the territory in the Competitions of FIBA or in other international
competitions organised within their Zones, subject to other following provisions, a player
must fulfill the following conditions:

a. Have the legal nationality of the country on which the territory is dependent (the “main
territory”); and

b. Have:
i. been born in the dependent territory; or
ii. been born in the main territory of at least one parent born in the dependent
territory; or
iii. been born of parents both of whom were born in the dependent territory,
regardless of the place of birth of the player; or
iv. at least one grandparent who was born in the dependent territory, regardless of
the place of birth of the player.

c. Be able to demonstrate traditional or customary residency in the territory.

mojo13
08-03-2015, 04:35 PM
Brazil roster announced.
No Splitter, Raul Neto, Nene, Barbosa or Varajao.
I assume this means they are confident they will get the autobid, but see nothing saying they made the payment due on the 31st.

From Fibaamericas.com website:
#FIBAAmericas2015 - Magnano convokes the National Team and Marquinhos joins Pan American Champion

RIO DE JANEIRO (2015 FIBA Americas Championship) - The celebration of the conquest of the Gold Medal at the Pan American Games 2015 was shortened for the Brazilian National Team and their coach Ruben Magnano.

With one month to go for the 2015 FIBA Americas Championship, the Brazilians began their route to their next continental commitment, by unveiling the list of players that will be part of the Preliminary Squad.

Keeping most of the players who were in Toronto, the experienced coach added recognized names, such as Marquinhos, to this new stage of the team.

The Brazilian National Federation has clear intentions for this team.

"Within the plan prepared by the Technical Department and the Technical Commission of the Brazilian team, the 2015 season will be used to improve the development and the experience of some athletes, already thinking about the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games and the future of the national team.”

The Brazilians will begin preparing for the FIBA Americas C’ship on August 4 and the first preparatory commitment will be at home in the Super Desafio in Brasilia from August 7- 9.

The team will then travel to Argentina for the Cuatro Naciones tournament from August 13 - 15.

The next stop for the Pan American champions will be San Juan, where they will face the national teams of Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico in the Jenaro "Tuto" Marchand Continental Cup, from August 23 to 27.

After the Tuto Cup, the Brazilians will move to Mexico where they will be part of Group A and will begin their participation in the 2015 FIBA Americas Championship against Uruguay on August 31. In addition, the team will face the Dominican Republic, Mexico and Panama during the First Round of the 2015 FIBA Americas C’ship.

The 2015 FIBA Americas Championship will qualify the two teams that reach the gold-medal match to the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games, while the teams that finish third, fourth and fifth will classify to the FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament.

Brazilian Preliminary Squad: Derek Evandro Ramos, Larry James Taylor Júnior, Ricardo Fischer, Rafael Freire Luz, Vitor Alves Benite, Danilo Fuzaro Siqueira, Leonardo Simões Meindl, Marcus Vinicius Vieira de Souza “Marquinhos”, Carlos Alexandre Rodrigues do Nascimento “Olivinha”, Marcus Vinicius Urban Toledo dos Reis, Augusto Cesar de Lima Brito, João Paulo Lopes Batista, Rafael Ferreira de Souza, Rafael Hettsheimeir, Ronald Rudson Rodrigues dos Reis.
- See more at: http://www.fibaamericas.com/en/noticiasread4.asp?r=EF965001113B48029387779D12ED6D 33#sthash.RGL0WNVE.dpuf

JGX
08-04-2015, 02:09 AM
Venezuela and Mexico are playing in the Stankovic Cup in China, but it seems like B team rosters for both. Mexico beat China 92-80 in their first game while Venezuela lost 72-65 against New Zealand.

mojo13
08-04-2015, 04:48 PM
Argentina preliminary roster announced.
Similar to PanAms with the addition of Scola, Nocioni, Campazzo and Safar. No Delfino (hurt) no Ginobili (too old)...anyone else of substance missing?


FIBAAmericas2015 - Argentina in fine fettle as veterans join squad
8/4/2015


BUENOS AIRES (2015 FIBA Americas Championship) - Argentina did not make it to the podium of the Pan American Games but the national team nevertheless has an extra bounce in its step with the FIBA Americas Championship in Mexico City less than a month away.

Stalwarts Luis Scola and Andres Nocioni were missing in Toronto but are now with the squad, along with Facundo Campazzo and Selem Safar.

All four were members of last year's squad at the FIBA Basketball World Cup in
Spain, where Argentina made it to the Round of 16.

Argentina coach Sergio Hernandez was left encouraged by what he saw from the latest training session.

"I thought it would be much more of a grind and that I would have to intervene many more times," Hernandez said.

"But it went very smoothly.

"I am very happy with what we are doing."

Argentina have a coupe of warm-up games coming up in Brasilia against the Brazil and Uruguay, games that will be played 7 and 9 August.

Hernandez's side will then take part in a four-team tournament 14- 15 August in Tecnópolis, Brazil, Mexico and Venezuela participating.

Argentina take on Uruguay in another friendly in Buenos Aires two days later before traveling to San Juan, Puerto Rico, for more games.

Brazil, Canada, the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico will be present with the Argentinians.

Hernandez's Argentina will play in Group B at the FIBA Americas Championship (31 August - 12 September) against Canada, Cuba, Puerto Rico and Venezuela.

The sides that reach the Final of the even will clinch places in the Rio de Janeiro Games while the teams that come in third, fourth and fifth will claim berths in the FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament.

Argentina preliminary squad: Federico Aguerre, Nicolas Aguirre, Matias Bortolin, Nicolas Brussino, Facundo Campazzo, Gabriel Deck, Marcos Delia, Pablo Espinoza, Tayavek Gallizi, Patricio Garino, Franco Giorgetti, Nicolas Laprovittola, Leo Mainoldi, Marcos Mata, Andres Nocioni, Nicolas Richotti, Selem Safar, Luis Scola, Juan Manuel Torres and Luca Vildoza.

Go to fiba.com/Americas2015 for more coverage of the 2015 FIBA Americas Championship.
- See more at: http://www.fibaamericas.com/en/noticiasread4.asp?r=F498A14B1C2444C6BE1FFF9E7B6E66 C0#sthash.yNrmPf3e.dpuf

JGX
08-08-2015, 12:58 AM
Uruguay beat Argentina 84-78 in the opening game of a tournament that also includes Brazil. Argentina rested some of their better players:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxkb2NzY2JifGd4OjQ5NDBkMzE3 MmUyMTNmODI

Puerto Rico is hosting Louisville for a few games next week:
http://www.cardchronicle.com/2015/8/6/9111025/changes-made-to-louisvilles-puerto-rico-schedule

mojo13
08-09-2015, 02:22 PM
good news for all other FIBA americas teams as FIBA has granted the autobid to Brazil.
Not surprising.

Dtown
08-09-2015, 02:37 PM
good news for all other FIBA americas teams as FIBA has granted the autobid to Brazil.
Not surprising.

Canada's my favorite to take the most advantage of this, but we'll see how it goes.

Andy7984
08-09-2015, 03:19 PM
Canada's my favorite to take the most advantage of this, but we'll see how it goes.

Yeah, I would also say Canada is the favorite. Cuba is the next favorite. Both Canada and Cuba played with their full senior national team at the recent Pan Am games where Canada finished 1st and Cuba finished 3rd.

JGX
08-10-2015, 01:18 AM
Uruguay beat Argentina 84-78 in the opening game of a tournament that also includes Brazil. Argentina rested some of their better players:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxkb2NzY2JifGd4OjQ5NDBkMzE3 MmUyMTNmODI
]

Brazil beat Uruguay 83-81 and Argentina 67-61 to win the tournament.

JGX
08-11-2015, 01:03 AM
Canada named a 16-man Training Camp Roster. The main absence is Thompson who is signing a one-year qualifying offer with the Cavs:

http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/mens-national-team-announces-2015-fiba-americas-training-camp-ro

mojo13
08-11-2015, 03:37 AM
Canada named a 16-man Training Camp Roster. The main absence is Thompson who is signing a one-year qualifying offer with the Cavs:

http://basketball.ca/en/news-article/mens-national-team-announces-2015-fiba-americas-training-camp-ro

Good talent but young and inexperienced in fiba.


Bennett, Anthony
F
6'8
Brampton, ON
Minnesota Timberwolves (NBA)

Bhullar, Sim
C
7'5
Mississauga, ON
Sacramento Kings (NBA)

Doornekamp, Aaron
F
6'7
Odessa, ON
Braunschweig (Germany)

Ejim, Melvin
F
6'6
Toronto, ON
Orlando Magic (NBA)

English, Carl
SG
6'5
Paradise, NFLD
Athens AEK (Greece)

Hanlan, Olivier
G
6'4
Aylmer, QC
BC Zalgiris (Lithuania)

Heslip, Brady
G
6'2
Burlington, ON
Pallacanestro Cantù (Italy)

Joseph, Cory
PG
6'3
Pickering, ON
Toronto Raptors (NBA)

Murray, Jamal
G
6'3
Kitchener, ON
University of Kentucky (NCAA)

Nicholson, Andrew
F
6'9
Mississauga, ON
Orlando Magic (NBA)

Olynyk, Kelly
C
7'0
Kamloops, BC
Boston Celtics (NBA)

Powell, Dwight
F
6'9
Toronto, ON
Dallas Mavericks (NBA)

Sacre, Robert
C
7'0
Vancouver, BC
Los Angeles Lakers (NBA)

Scrubb, Phil
G
6'3
Richmond, BC
AEK Athens (Greece)

Stauskas, Nik
SG
6'6
Mississauga, ON
Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)

Wiggins, Andrew
F
6'8
Vaughan, ON

JGX
08-13-2015, 02:34 AM
Puerto Rico beat Louisville 89-81 and 96-62 in the first two games of their series.

carlo
08-13-2015, 07:57 AM
Puerto Rico vs Louisville series games are doubleheaders played between A and B (or Jr) teams, so I have understood from Louisville B'ball site.
As a matter of facts some of Cardinals players were fielded in both games.
2nd day results: PUR B - Louisville B 79-77, PUR A - Louisville A 96-62

http://www.gocards.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/081315aac.html

mojo13
08-20-2015, 05:00 PM
Good talent but young and inexperienced in fiba.


Bennett, Anthony
F
6'8
Brampton, ON
Minnesota Timberwolves (NBA)

Bhullar, Sim
C
7'5
Mississauga, ON
Sacramento Kings (NBA)

Doornekamp, Aaron
F
6'7
Odessa, ON
Braunschweig (Germany)

Ejim, Melvin
F
6'6
Toronto, ON
Orlando Magic (NBA)

English, Carl
SG
6'5
Paradise, NFLD
Athens AEK (Greece)

Hanlan, Olivier
G
6'4
Aylmer, QC
BC Zalgiris (Lithuania)

Heslip, Brady
G
6'2
Burlington, ON
Pallacanestro Cantù (Italy)

Joseph, Cory
PG
6'3
Pickering, ON
Toronto Raptors (NBA)

Murray, Jamal
G
6'3
Kitchener, ON
University of Kentucky (NCAA)

Nicholson, Andrew
F
6'9
Mississauga, ON
Orlando Magic (NBA)

Olynyk, Kelly
C
7'0
Kamloops, BC
Boston Celtics (NBA)

Powell, Dwight
F
6'9
Toronto, ON
Dallas Mavericks (NBA)

Sacre, Robert
C
7'0
Vancouver, BC
Los Angeles Lakers (NBA)

Scrubb, Phil
G
6'3
Richmond, BC
AEK Athens (Greece)

Stauskas, Nik
SG
6'6
Mississauga, ON
Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)

Wiggins, Andrew
F
6'8
Vaughan, ON


Canada cuts Carl English, Jamal Murray and Sim Bhullar today to get the roster to 13 going into the Tuto Marchand Cup.

Mindozas
08-22-2015, 07:53 AM
Uruguay announced final squad

Martín Osimani
Bruno Fitipaldo
Luciano Parodi
Santiago Vidal
Mauricio Aguiar
Demian Álvarez
Hernando Cáceres
Marcel Souberbielle
Mathías Calfani
Nicolás Borsellino
Reque Newsome
Kiril Wachsmann

Notable missings Esteban Batista, Jayson Granger, Gustavo Barrera

CKR13
08-27-2015, 10:25 PM
According to the news, Dominican Republic's Luis Montero will miss this campaign due to him focusing in on making the Portland Trailblazers squad.

Silvio A.
08-29-2015, 08:55 PM
I don't understand why Peter John Ramos and Ricky Sanchez do not play with PuertoRico national team.
And I don't understand why Arroyo is old and not Ayuso!
I would also called Alex Galindo, Mike Rosario and David Huertas

CKR13
08-30-2015, 01:27 PM
Great read about this tournament. Grab a coffee and it makes for a great Sunday reading.
http://www.solobasket.com/internacional/todo-lo-que-tienes-que-saber-sobre-el-fiba-americas-2015

Silvio A.
08-30-2015, 06:25 PM
Canada in pole position, then the Dominican Republic, Argentina, Mexico and Brazil.
PuertoRico is an enigma, too many important players out, for different reasons, even Harkless.

Playground Heaven
08-31-2015, 08:55 AM
Interesting, Jack Martinez out for the DR, Kobes Cousin is playing for Venezuela and Rick Pitino is coaching Puerto Rico

http://popgates.com/kobes-cousin-rick-pitino-the-fiba-americas-championship-everything-you-need-to-know/

Dtown
08-31-2015, 09:44 PM
Wow so little talk and it's Day 1. No prediction game or anything. (Why don't you make one dtown? Cause I'm lazy)

Brazil looks bad, like really bad but I guess that's to be expected.

edit: Hard fought win by Argentina

CKR13
09-01-2015, 02:14 AM
Wow, Ruben Garces in the Panama NT. I think he started his career before Andrew Wiggins was born.

CKR13
09-01-2015, 03:10 AM
Edgar Sosa is on fire but his teammates are not. Three of Mexico's starters are now in double figure scoring.

Mojado
09-01-2015, 09:40 AM
Wow, Ruben Garces in the Panama NT. I think he started his career before Andrew Wiggins was born.
He participated in the 1993 edition of the FIBA Americas while playing for Navarro CC in the US...crazy.

Dtown
09-01-2015, 10:35 AM
Not sure if Mexico is that good, or this edition of Dominican Republic is that bad. Either way Mexico has a legit homecourt advantage, trips to the free throw line reminded me of Azteca in soccer.

judasmartel
09-01-2015, 12:55 PM
Not sure if Mexico is that good, or this edition of Dominican Republic is that bad. Either way Mexico has a legit homecourt advantage, trips to the free throw line reminded me of Azteca in soccer.

No Horford, and is Francisco Garcia around?

Mindozas
09-01-2015, 01:25 PM
No Horford, and is Francisco Garcia around?

Garcia is in, but besides Horford there're no Karl Towns, Jack Michael Martinez, Montero too

Steadysoul
09-01-2015, 10:04 PM
Scola really never gets the credit he deserves for being so good for so long for ARG

CKR13
09-01-2015, 10:16 PM
Good win for Argentina, Luis Scola so fundamentally sound that it's very difficult to stop him on what he wants to do. Also, brilliant play by Laprovittola off the bench. I do feel that Canada settled for too many threes where they could just have attacked the 1-3-1 defensive unit employed by Argentina. Canada can get better still with their execution.

Steadysoul
09-01-2015, 10:36 PM
Good win for Argentina, Luis Scola so fundamentally sound that it's very difficult to stop him on what he wants to do. Also, brilliant play by Laprovittola off the bench. I do feel that Canada settled for too many threes where they could just have attacked the 1-3-1 defensive unit employed by Argentina. Canada can get better still with their execution.

I think in part Canada figured those Exhibition games were barometers for the real thing forgetting that none of those games really mattered.

Dtown
09-01-2015, 10:46 PM
Canada reminds me somewhat of US teams prior to 06. They have talent, but they definitely lack experience and there's no worse team to be inexperienced against than Argentina. Hopefully it will wake them up.

Hepcat
09-01-2015, 10:49 PM
Arrrrgggghhhh!!! Just like 2003(?). Canada looked great in exhibition games and simply fell short when the real tournament started.

:(

Dtown
09-01-2015, 10:55 PM
Arrrrgggghhhh!!! Just like 2003(?). Canada looked great in exhibition games and simply fell short when the real tournament started.

:(

Bit early for that, especially given the loss was against Argentina, but given wins/loses carry over Canada desperately needs to win out.

Steadysoul
09-01-2015, 11:06 PM
Canada reminds me somewhat of US teams prior to 06. They have talent, but they definitely lack experience and there's no worse team to be inexperienced against than Argentina. Hopefully it will wake them up.

A bit worse really. The US was great outside of that game with Greece. Canada spent too much time making a big deal out of exhibition games.

CKR13
09-02-2015, 12:24 AM
I think in part Canada figured those Exhibition games were barometers for the real thing forgetting that none of those games really mattered.

Yeah that could also be a possibility. Now Canada has a grasp of what veteran teams do in the Americas tournament. Hopefully this makes them better and not shake their composure. They are too talented for that but there are room to grow for this young Canadian team.

It will be interesting on how Canada adjust after this where they can manage better composure on close games against much more experienced teams. Argentina provided a good lesson as a learning curve.

Dtown
09-02-2015, 12:40 AM
A bit worse really. The US was great outside of that game with Greece. Canada spent too much time making a big deal out of exhibition games.

Oh that's why I said 'prior' meaning the '02 and '04 teams. Nothing wrong with the '06 team except that they got beat by a good Greece team.

judasmartel
09-02-2015, 06:24 AM
Luis Scola 35pts 13rebs vs Canada.

Damn, Scola, BEAST MODE ON.

Hepcat
09-02-2015, 03:36 PM
Yeah. No doubt that Scola came to play!

mojo13
09-02-2015, 07:10 PM
Yeah. No doubt that Scola came to play!

Probably a good loss for Canada if there is such a thing. Better against ARG with Scola in BEAST MODE than getting surprised by someone like Venezuela. The media in Canada got quite cocky from going undefeated at the Tuto Marchand Cup. I am sure that bled over to the team too as they believed their own hype. They were very flat and did not play well at all. There is lots of room for improvement and luckily they roll into a game against Cuba which should help them compose themselves. Our guard play is awful for the past few games and hopefully that gets cleaned up quickly.

I believe.

Steadysoul
09-02-2015, 08:00 PM
Probably a good loss for Canada if there is such a thing. Better against ARG with Scola in BEAST MODE than getting surprised by someone like Venezuela. The media in Canada got quite cocky from going undefeated at the Tuto Marchand Cup. I am sure that bled over to the team too as they believed their own hype. They were very flat and did not play well at all. There is lots of room for improvement and luckily they roll into a game against Cuba which should help them compose themselves. Our guard play is awful for the past few games and hopefully that gets cleaned up quickly.

I believe.

They forgot that none of those games mattered. Argentina always shows up when it counts.

CKR13
09-03-2015, 12:55 AM
In two games, the alternating PG for Canada in Joseph and Scrubb have been efficient. Lots of assists and very low turnovers. Good win tonight over Cuba.

greenarcher
09-03-2015, 05:38 AM
Is this the weakest FIBA Americas in recent years? Almost all the big name players are not playing.

Canada with their "all-star" line-up really should take advantage.

Steadysoul
09-03-2015, 02:32 PM
Is this the weakest FIBA Americas in recent years? Almost all the big name players are not playing.

Canada with their "all-star" line-up really should take advantage.

Well for Brazil there really isn't a reason to go all out. Most of the well known Argentinian players retired from FIBA. The rest of the teams never really had much star power.

Mindozas
09-03-2015, 02:52 PM
Well for Brazil there really isn't a reason to go all out. Most of the well known Argentinian players retired from FIBA. The rest of the teams never really had much star power.

Nonetheless, missing players like Batista, Granger (URU), Greivis Vasquez (VEN), Horford, Towns, Martinez, Villanueva (DR), Harkless, Arroyo, Ramos (PR), Forbes (PAN), maybe I forgot someone else, hurts the level of competition a lot

Mika Hakinen
09-03-2015, 04:15 PM
I really like Jamal Murray, he is also out, at the panamerican games he was the best player of Canada

Hepcat
09-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Is this the weakest FIBA Americas in recent years? Almost all the big name players are not playing.

Canada with their "all-star" line-up really should take advantage.

I agree!

:)

Hepcat
09-03-2015, 11:52 PM
Well, well, well! It's

Canada 47 Venezuela 28

at the half! This Canadian team may be very good indeed.

:cool:

Dtown
09-04-2015, 01:33 AM
Good win by Canada, despite some of the drama of losing to Argentina (and there was a lot on some boards I visit.) if they win tomorrow they are actually in good shape.

Terrorizer
09-04-2015, 05:23 AM
Well, well, well! It's

Canada 47 Venezuela 28

at the half! This Canadian team may be very good indeed.

Frankly, I don't think that Canada is something really good. Venezuela is just a mediocre team (out of their players only John Cox built a solid career in Europe) which gave everything to defeat struggling PR, so they came to this game without much hope for the win.

Olynyk is surprisingly non-stupid for a white North American big man and Cory Joseph looks like he is capable of improving and progressing but that's all considering good surprises in this Canadian squad. So far Bennett lives up to the fame of one of the worst first draft picks of recent times, Wiggins' shooting mechanics and basketball IQ are cringe inducing (he will prosper in NBA neverthteless but he looks like a great definition of an NBA star who is doomed to struggle in FIBA competitions), Nicholson plays less and less in lousy Orlando of today, Tristan Thompson is solid at where he is the strongest but his sloppiness will never go away. And talking about sloppiness - God, I haven't watched many of Virtus Roma games this season but now I understand why if not for idiots from Orlando Magic then Melvin Ejim would play for a team of Bayreuth caliber. It looks like this guy had grown up in some Gabon instead of Canada since he's so rusty and sloppy with the ball that it seems he started to play organized basketball in his late teens.

What else? A lot of Canadian future depends on Tyler Ennis and Olivier Hanlan progress but either way with most of the recent Canadian lottery picks slowly but steadily drifting their way into being considered busts (I mean, a one-trick pony like Nick Stauskas who can only shoot threes gets drafted eighth overall... gimme a break) I doubt that they can do something really good on international scene outside of their continent. They would be one of the most athletic teams in any tournament they play, no doubt about that, but if Canada will face an experienced opponent who can apply some antidote to their transition offense... eh, I think their future isn't as bright as some fellas started to believe after a lot of hype about their prospects.

Hepcat
09-04-2015, 01:46 PM
Olynyk is surprisingly non-stupid for a white North American big man....

:eek:

Must have been the cleaner mountain air in Kamloops, British Columbia where he grew up. Didn't kill as many of his brain cells.

;)

mojo13
09-04-2015, 03:45 PM
Frankly, I don't think that Canada is something really good. Venezuela is just a mediocre team (out of their players only John Cox built a solid career in Europe) which gave everything to defeat struggling PR, so they came to this game without much hope for the win.

Olynyk is surprisingly non-stupid for a white North American big man and Cory Joseph looks like he is capable of improving and progressing but that's all considering good surprises in this Canadian squad. So far Bennett lives up to the fame of one of the worst first draft picks of recent times, Wiggins' shooting mechanics and basketball IQ are cringe inducing (he will prosper in NBA neverthteless but he looks like a great definition of an NBA star who is doomed to struggle in FIBA competitions), Nicholson plays less and less in lousy Orlando of today, Tristan Thompson is solid at where he is the strongest but his sloppiness will never go away. And talking about sloppiness - God, I haven't watched many of Virtus Roma games this season but now I understand why if not for idiots from Orlando Magic then Melvin Ejim would play for a team of Bayreuth caliber. It looks like this guy had grown up in some Gabon instead of Canada since he's so rusty and sloppy with the ball that it seems he started to play organized basketball in his late teens.

What else? A lot of Canadian future depends on Tyler Ennis and Olivier Hanlan progress but either way with most of the recent Canadian lottery picks slowly but steadily drifting their way into being considered busts (I mean, a one-trick pony like Nick Stauskas who can only shoot threes gets drafted eighth overall... gimme a break) I doubt that they can do something really good on international scene outside of their continent. They would be one of the most athletic teams in any tournament they play, no doubt about that, but if Canada will face an experienced opponent who can apply some antidote to their transition offense... eh, I think their future isn't as bright as some fellas started to believe after a lot of hype about their prospects.


You are wrong on many points here so it is hard to know where to start (you might be right on a couple). First off this is a really, really young team that is completely inexperienced in FIBA. I think they are showing some really good signs that they could be a very competitive team. Team Canada management (Steve, Nash, Jay Triano, and Rowan Barratt) have constantly stated this is a very young team and expectations should be tempered. Really it is 2020 Olympics where we will be a threat. We are just too young for 2016 to do much. We also have young guys like Jamal Murray and Trey Lyles coming up behind this group as well - two more NBA lottery picks.

Anthony Bennett so far per 36: 19.8 ppg 12.4 rpg 70% FG and he just turned 22 - if he stayed in school this would be his Sr year of college. Yes he shouldn't have been the number 1 pick overall - everyone knows that, but it was not his choice and people gave up on this guy way too soon. If he was picked in the 8-15 range I am not sure he would be considered a but (yet at least). He is playing pretty good at the FIBA Americas.

Stauskas has played fairly well despite his biggest strength, outside shooting, abandoning him for the first few games. We saw him find some rhythm against VEN and he will be quite dangerous the rest of the tournament if he shoots well. He has defended better than expected (what I thought would be his primary weakness), has passed decently and gotten to the rim on occasion. He is 21 - has had one bad year in the NBA and to call him a bust at this point is stupid.

Wiggins is 20 and has looked like the best player on the floor at all times - his speed, quickness and athleticism have him one a whole other level than anyone else in the tournament. The critique on Wiggins is he floats, letting his teammates do more than they should and doesn't impose himself on games like he is capable off. This is something that we see changing over time and will only get better. He seems to be getting more and more aggressive with every year. His shot mechanics are fine but he does need to tighten up his handle which is improving. Again, he is only 20, obviously worthy of a #1 pick and will be an NBA Allstar. Ricky Rubio recently claimed Wiggins will be an MVP one day - possibly just a teammate complimenting a team mate but I am sure he knows better than most. I doubt Wiggins will struggle in FIBA competition for long (I don't think he isn't struggling now at 20).

Dwight Powell has look good too, 23 years old, and will be a solid FIBA player. It is shame he was the victim of a cheap intentional foul against VEN, I hope he is not hurt too badly (no word on the injury so far).

Nicholson, I suspect you are right. He is a pretty good offensive player, but he can't defend and rebound at an NBA PF level. His offense is not needed with this team (we need a rim protector, rebounder) and I suspect he will be off to Europe in a year or two. That will likely make him more valuable to the Canadian National Team down the road. He may be replaced by Trey Lyles or Tristan Thompson going forward, but the depth will be needed in the new WC qualifications.

Ejim I didn't watch at Roma. But he was an excellent NCAA player, but he played PF. He is trying to transition to SF for his professional career as he is seemingly too small for a NBA PF. We didn't expect much from him and he is not considered a foundational piece for Canada, but I think he is playing pretty well in the FIBA Americas. I'd be surprised if he sticks with the Magic and might be better off honing his game in Europe. De does need to improve ball handling and shooting to be an effective SF.

I agree Tristan Thompson is limited offensively, but my guess is he was the only Canadian that could have stopped Scola from embarrassing us. Plus we see how super athletic guys like Kenneth Faried can be used to decimate unathletic Euro teams - so Thomson could end up being an important piece for Canada.

Anyways despite your views, I think this is a team with tremendous potential. They are no where near where they can be, but even at this young age, I think they can win this tournament.

Terrorizer
09-04-2015, 03:57 PM
:eek:

Must have been the cleaner mountain air in Kamloops, British Columbia where he grew up. Didn't kill as many of his brain cells.

;)
Yeah, looks like it is the case. I've googled some photos of Kamloops and while I can't get how a young man growing up there could become a pro basketballer instead of lumberjack or at least ice hockey player, it's clear that surrounded by forests and hills he was far from all those mentally debilitating effects of basketball surroundings typical for places like Toronto.

Joking aside, he sees court really well for his height and it's a rare thing for NBA bigs. He's no Tomic or Khryapa considering his passing culture but he tries to involve his teammates when opponents aren't ready for this. A bad thing is that he tries to put the ball on the floor much more often than he has to, especially in the face-to-the-basket situations. His dribbling is very sloppy and a team better than Venezuela can punish for such an insolence. Was he a backcourt player when he was a child? Well, overall he's sloppy offensively but this sloppiness makes him kinda unpredictable and surprisingly he is able to finish around the basket with a good rate (yet in a very unorthodox way) thanks to his moderately soft touch. So he kinda reminds me Walter Herrmann in his prime, only bigger, more versatile and with much better passing skills. Hell, in addition to unorthodox dribbling and shooting technique both have some similarity even in their appearance :)

By the way, is Kevin Pangos a Canadian? I hope that he has all the tools to evolve into elite point guard if he has enough of wisdom to stay out of NBA where his athletic limitations will be exploited to the full and where most probably he would never have a chance to play a decent role and, hence, to progress. If he represents Canada internationally (too lazy to google), then it is a huge plus in my book even though most probably you'll continue to have Triano-like coaches who aren't clever enough to trust Kevin and apply more intelligent yet less athletic and flashy gameplay mode.

It would be interesting to watch Puerto-Rico against Canada today :) Boricuas aren't as good as they used to be but nevertheless they have their backs against the wall, so I hope that they'll try to give Canadian team a good fight.

mojo13, quite surprisingly I agree with you on many points but I'll reply in more detail later. Truth is that this Canadian team is very young and it's too early to judge about their ceiling. Right now with some of their most hyped recent prospects struggling with transitioning to pro basketball this team's future looks significantly less bright than it was a year or two ago but things can go either way here. I also agree that Canada can win this tournament (athough Argentina and maybe even hosts are not heavy underdogs against them) but the quality of players pool in FIBA Americas took a big dip down recently. It's not that good of a tournament as less Latin American players are able to become successful either in NBA or in Europe than it was the case some 10-15 years ago.

Joško Poljak Fan
09-04-2015, 04:17 PM
Pangos is half Dutch half Slovenian Canadian iirc.

mojo13
09-04-2015, 06:03 PM
Pangos is half Dutch half Slovenian Canadian iirc.

Pangos is fully Canadian. Born and raised. Played international for Canada at U16/U17/U18/U19 etc. Likely would have been the back up PG for this team but entering his first pro contract with Gran Carnia it was decided it best for him to skip FIBA Americas and get to Spain. However, I did hear a rumor he holds Slovenian passport. No one has confirmed this though and I would be very, very surprised if he did not play for Canada in the future. Pangos is a very proud Canadian.

Terrorizor - good guess on Kelly Olynyk, he was a point guard in high school until he hit a massive growth spurt. He actually has great handles and passing ability for a big man. At least relative to his North American counterparts.

I look forward to your counterpoints - you have a good eye.

I don't think anyone who knows the Canadian team AND has an idea of FIBA ball ever thought Canada would become a team to dominate the world (outside of the US). I think we just believe that their is enough talent here to overcome North America's inherent disadvantages in FIBA ball to become one of 6-8 medal contenders in the Olympics or WCs. Some of the recent lottery picks have been disappointing in the NBA for the first couple years, but there are so many, and more coming that the talent will be there.

tres equis
09-04-2015, 07:00 PM
Yeah, looks like it is the case. I've googled some photos of Kamloops and while I can't get how a young man growing up there could become a pro basketballer instead of lumberjack or at least ice hockey player, it's clear that surrounded by forests and hills he was far from all those mentally debilitating effects of basketball surroundings typical for places like Toronto.

Joking aside, he sees court really well for his height and it's a rare thing for NBA bigs. He's no Tomic or Khryapa considering his passing culture but he tries to involve his teammates when opponents aren't ready for this. A bad thing is that he tries to put the ball on the floor much more often than he has to, especially in the face-to-the-basket situations. His dribbling is very sloppy and a team better than Venezuela can punish for such an insolence. Was he a backcourt player when he was a child? Well, overall he's sloppy offensively but this sloppiness makes him kinda unpredictable and surprisingly he is able to finish around the basket with a good rate (yet in a very unorthodox way) thanks to his moderately soft touch. So he kinda reminds me Walter Herrmann in his prime, only bigger, more versatile and with much better passing skills. Hell, in addition to unorthodox dribbling and shooting technique both have some similarity even in their appearance :)

By the way, is Kevin Pangos a Canadian? I hope that he has all the tools to evolve into elite point guard if he has enough of wisdom to stay out of NBA where his athletic limitations will be exploited to the full and where most probably he would never have a chance to play a decent role and, hence, to progress. If he represents Canada internationally (too lazy to google), then it is a huge plus in my book even though most probably you'll continue to have Triano-like coaches who aren't clever enough to trust Kevin and apply more intelligent yet less athletic and flashy gameplay mode.

It would be interesting to watch Puerto-Rico against Canada today :) Boricuas aren't as good as they used to be but nevertheless they have their backs against the wall, so I hope that they'll try to give Canadian team a good fight.

mojo13, quite surprisingly I agree with you on many points but I'll reply in more detail later. Truth is that this Canadian team is very young and it's too early to judge about their ceiling. Right now with some of their most hyped recent prospects struggling with transitioning to pro basketball this team's future looks significantly less bright than it was a year or two ago but things can go either way here. I also agree that Canada can win this tournament (athough Argentina and maybe even hosts are not heavy underdogs against them) but the quality of players pool in FIBA Americas took a big dip down recently. It's not that good of a tournament as less Latin American players are able to become successful either in NBA or in Europe than it was the case some 10-15 years ago.

Our basketball right now is in bad shape, but in general we are hitting rock bottom, i would not be surprised if we lose badly today, but we'll see about that.

Joško Poljak Fan
09-04-2015, 07:47 PM
Mojo13, never wanted to argue that and I've never heard about anyone talking about naturalisations anywhere either, just read it somewhere on some bball site, I should've probably said Canadian of Dutch and Slovenian origin ;)

mojo13
09-04-2015, 10:08 PM
Mojo13, never wanted to argue that and I've never heard about anyone talking about naturalisations anywhere either, just read it somewhere on some bball site, I should've probably said Canadian of Dutch and Slovenian origin ;)

No worries. I am hyper sensitive considering the amount of Canadian football players that have decided to play for their "European origin" country instead of Canada! We will never come close to the World Cup until that stops. Even then...

Happily it is a different story for bball though.

Dtown
09-05-2015, 01:28 AM
Another solid win by Canada, and the more I'm watching this tournament the more I have a feeling it will come down to Argentina/Mexico/Canada for the last spot. Argentina vs Mexico I feel might determine who advances easily and who has a tough fight with the Canadians.

mojo13
09-05-2015, 03:17 AM
well...J.J. Barea says Canada can “keep going up.” Says “if they keep together for the next couple of years, they can be the best team."

"best team" is a stretch. But at least he is impressed.

Hepcat
09-05-2015, 02:46 PM
Another solid win by Canada....

I was particularly pleased to see that it was one of my two favourite players, Phil Scrubb, who was running the offence at PG for most of Canada's 46-16 run during the last two and a half minutes of the first half and the third quarter that took Canada to victory. Scrubb played for the Carleton University Ravens and I believe is the only player on the team to have attended a Canadian university.

:cool:

Hepcat
09-05-2015, 02:58 PM
Evidently the round advertising decals FIBA has on the floor are proving to be a safety hazard. Kelly Olynyk nearly ended up doing the spits during yesterday's game against Puerto Rico when he came down on one of the decals. Nobody's gotten injured - yet, but FIBA should rough up those decals somehow to make them less slippery.

:mad:

JGX
09-05-2015, 03:15 PM
Is this the weakest FIBA Americas in recent years? Almost all the big name players are not playing.


Doesn't seem any weaker than 2013.

2003 was the best FIBA-Americas, it's been downhill from there.

mojo13
09-05-2015, 06:58 PM
I was particularly pleased to see that it was one of my two favourite players, Phil Scrubb, who was running the offence at PG for most of Canada's 46-16 run during the last two and a half minutes of the first half and the third quarter that took Canada to victory. Scrubb played for the Carleton University Ravens and I believe is the only player on the team to have attended a Canadian university.

:cool:

Aaron Doornekamp played for Carlton too.
Scrubb has played well thankfully, as his choice was questioned by us Team Canada fans.

Hepcat
09-06-2015, 07:12 PM
Aaron Doornekamp played for Carleton too.

Yes, you're very correct. Bad oversight on my part. Aaron Doornekamp starred at Carleton. He was a member of Carleton's Canadian championship teams in 2005, 2006 and 2007 and was the Championship Tournament MVP in 2007. He was also the Canadian University Player of the Year in 2008.

Interesting that during Phil Scrubbs' years with the Carleton Ravens beginning with the 2010-11 season, the team won five Canadian championships in a row with a cumulative 102-3 record in regular season and playoff games! Scrubbs won the Jack Donohue Trophy as MVP of the CIS Championship Tournament in 2012 and 2015, won the Mike Moser Memorial Trophy as the Outstanding Player in the CIS three years in a row from 2012 to 2014 and was selected First Team All-Canadian four consecutive years from 2012 to 2015!

:)

Playground Heaven
09-07-2015, 05:01 AM
Great interview with John Holland of the Puerto Rico team, breaking down the first round http://popgates.com/los-doce-magnificos-john-holland/

Dtown
09-08-2015, 12:00 AM
Even though they have that loss to Argentina on their record Canada is starting to look like the best team in this tournament. They're routinely dominant and a clear cut above everyone not named Mexico or Argentina. Tomorrow against Mexico will be real interesting. If they lose they help cement the reputation that they can't beat good teams, if they win they go into the knock out round confident no matter who they play.

Mika Hakinen
09-08-2015, 12:19 AM
If Canada would play at the Eurobasket, with this game it would be in the medal winners!

usagre
09-08-2015, 01:33 AM
Even though they have that loss to Argentina on their record Canada is starting to look like the best team in this tournament. They're routinely dominant and a clear cut above everyone not named Mexico or Argentina. Tomorrow against Mexico will be real interesting. If they lose they help cement the reputation that they can't beat good teams, if they win they go into the knock out round confident no matter who they play.

I think if they get another crack at Argentina they will destroy them.

Dtown
09-08-2015, 02:12 AM
Mexico perhaps looking ahead to Canada and Argentina? Trailing Venezuela at half time and not looking good.

Mojado
09-08-2015, 11:44 AM
Mexico perhaps looking ahead to Canada and Argentina? Trailing Venezuela at half time and not looking good.
I see us losing to Canada today. Now the question is how good is Argentina who barely got away with a win over Uruguay. That's the important match for MX.

mojo13
09-08-2015, 11:06 PM
I see us losing to Canada today. Now the question is how good is Argentina who barely got away with a win over Uruguay. That's the important match for MX.

CAN v MEX should be an interesting game to say the least. Quite the hostile environment for the young, inexperienced Canadians. They are playing well, getting better and Mexico seems to be using a very short rotation that seem to be tiring. I hope the refereeing does not become an issue - that could become quite a frustrating experience for the Canadians.

Dtown
09-09-2015, 01:51 AM
Canada's depth puts them head and shoulders above the others, the only other team I see doing a full five player swap and keep up their level of play is the United States.

EDIT: 52-30 Canada. They're on a whole different level.

Canada wins by 21. Don't think they'll fear facing anyone in the knockout stage.

CKR13
09-09-2015, 03:01 AM
Good win for Canada against a rugged Mexico team. Loved Ejim's hustle, tipping in missed shots and getting Canada second chance points.

Federoy
09-09-2015, 03:36 AM
I think the Argentines caught Canada flat-footed in the first round, but Canada has gotten progressive better as the tournament has proceeded. Argentina won't be able to sneak up on them like they did in the first meeting should the two meet in the gold medal game. Canada's depth and athleticism is unlike any previous Canadian team I've ever seen, surpassing a solid 2000 Olympic squad with Rowan Barrett, Michael Meeks, Steve Nash and Co.

Terrorizer
09-09-2015, 04:42 AM
Well, as they say, it's better to be late than the late. So here is my extremely late answer to mojo13's post.



I don't think anyone who knows the Canadian team AND has an idea of FIBA ball ever thought Canada would become a team to dominate the world (outside of the US). I think we just believe that their is enough talent here to overcome North America's inherent disadvantages in FIBA ball to become one of 6-8 medal contenders in the Olympics or WCs.

Here I do agree with you. I don't see Canadian team as an Olympic/WC medals contender right now but since the core of the team is very young, a lot depends on the progress of the individual players and of this squad as a whole (which is also very important). So if the things will turn good for Canada with this, then it certainly can become a potent competitor even at the highest FIBA level.

First of all, before continuing I have to remark that, most probably, you know all these players (aside from Doornekamp :)) better than me since I don't like to watch NBA and do it only episodically and while NCAA is much more interesting for me, I never haven't watched it really extensively.



Anthony Bennett so far per 36: 19.8 ppg 12.4 rpg 70% FG and he just turned 22 - if he stayed in school this would be his Sr year of college. Yes he shouldn't have been the number 1 pick overall - everyone knows that, but it was not his choice and people gave up on this guy way too soon. If he was picked in the 8-15 range I am not sure he would be considered a but (yet at least). He is playing pretty good at the FIBA Americas.

His stats kinda declined since then but as long as I've totally missed second group stage I won't comment on it. I think that Bennett is tremendously gifted athletically but he is too short for being PF (physical strength-wise it won't be a problem for him to play as a proper PF in NBA) but he has no strong outside game and no adequate ball-handling to play SF. And he is seriously overweight which hurts his quickness and also makes him unable to contain quick slashing wingers. Not the highest basketball IQ out there and hence we get a player desperately stuck between positions and lacking something to prosper in any of them. I think that it's still probable for him to find a niche in NBA but chances high that this would be a niche of decent role player.


Stauskas has played fairly well despite his biggest strength, outside shooting, abandoning him for the first few games. We saw him find some rhythm against VEN and he will be quite dangerous the rest of the tournament if he shoots well. He has defended better than expected (what I thought would be his primary weakness), has passed decently and gotten to the rim on occasion. He is 21 - has had one bad year in the NBA and to call him a bust at this point is stupid.

Yes, you're right. Stauskas defense also was a positive surprise for me. For a player severely lacking lateral quickness he played quite rationally, showing solid defensive instincts, and was able to stay in front of his opponent most of the time. But what I've seen so far from him in this tournament hasn't made me any more positive towards his terrible one-dimensionality (is there such a word?) in offense. He is a brilliant spot-up shooter who also can be moderately good at shooting off-the-screen threes when he is 'in tune' but he can't create offense for himself, he is a below average slasher who shies away from the contact and against better competition he would struggle to secure many trips to charity stripe (where he is excellent, by the way). I don't know how he collected so many assists but from the games I've seen he can involve his teammates from time to time (thanks to his good discipline as his shot selection is mostly good and he would pass more oftne than forse the shot) but he lacks passing skills and court vision to be effective as an offense distributor. So Stauskas is really a one-trick pony, I suspect. He does that trick exceptionally well but even such pure shooters in Europe like Jaycee Carroll are capable of playing much more diverse offense than Stauskas.



Wiggins is 20 and has looked like the best player on the floor at all times - his speed, quickness and athleticism have him one a whole other level than anyone else in the tournament. The critique on Wiggins is he floats, letting his teammates do more than they should and doesn't impose himself on games like he is capable off. This is something that we see changing over time and will only get better. He seems to be getting more and more aggressive with every year. His shot mechanics are fine but he does need to tighten up his handle which is improving. Again, he is only 20, obviously worthy of a #1 pick and will be an NBA Allstar. Ricky Rubio recently claimed Wiggins will be an MVP one day - possibly just a teammate complimenting a team mate but I am sure he knows better than most. I doubt Wiggins will struggle in FIBA competition for long (I don't think he isn't struggling now at 20).

In fact, I don't like players of Wiggins type. Extremely individualistic, often retardedly so, highly turnover prone, he is very far from being a likeable player for me. Maybe, he can shy away from the responsibility leaving clutch plays to teammates (I haven't seen this though) but he ain't insufficiently aggresive, imho, he is overly aggressive already. It would hurt his team much more often than it does now if Wiggins wasn't such a terrific athlete. His speed (for his size), explosiveness, tremendous body control and ability to finish strong close to the rim (and, my oh my, his strides when running with the ball in transition offense seem to be miles long) are making his NBA future very bright. Most probably he would flourish as an NBA star, maybe even of an All-Star caliber. But he is soooo inconsistent in his shooting (in this very tournament he airballed a free throw, a guy with good shooting mechanics could never do this), so stupid and so prone to force things on a major scale - and these are exactly the qualities for which you can get punished in a premier level of FIBA competition.



Dwight Powell has look good too, 23 years old, and will be a solid FIBA player. It is shame he was the victim of a cheap intentional foul against VEN, I hope he is not hurt too badly (no word on the injury so far).

I liked him too when I saw him before in NCAA. He is still kinda lanky but he is fluid and not overly sloppy for an NBA big, can even put the ball on the floor. He would even be dangerous in face-up situations if he wasn't such a streaky shooter. He looks coachable and eager to help his team in any way he can (maybe, I'm mistaken but I've got such an impression from watching him playing). But Powell does nothing really well and can be viewed only as a role player for the elite level competition. Maybe, if he would continue to struggle in NBA, it's better for him to come to Europe as here he can diversify his game, learn something different from typical NBA mould of playing and maybe even develop into much more fundamentally sound and effective player than he is now.



Nicholson, I suspect you are right. He is a pretty good offensive player, but he can't defend and rebound at an NBA PF level. His offense is not needed with this team (we need a rim protector, rebounder) and I suspect he will be off to Europe in a year or two. That will likely make him more valuable to the Canadian National Team down the road. He may be replaced by Trey Lyles or Tristan Thompson going forward, but the depth will be needed in the new WC qualifications.

I doubt that Nicholson offense is anything flashy even though I haven't see him that much. But right now even you agree with me about his perspectives and who can guess how many of all these first round Canadian draftees of a last 2-3 years will follow his career trajectory. Also I don't like Trey Lyles at all and I've watched a lot of him in Kentucky. Thompson is another matter. He's really good at the things he specializes in and when playing a limited role in a sensibly organized team he could do a lot of damage in FIBA competition due to his athleticism and rebounding instincts, but only if a coach can secure him being involved in some simple plays. Nevertheless, he's very limited offensively so he also needs a good PG in order to be effective cause his offensive usefulness would rapidly declne if there won't be enough transition offense and, even more importantly, some good lobs or drop offs from PG after which Tristan could just dunk without much of a second thought.



Ejim I didn't watch at Roma. But he was an excellent NCAA player, but he played PF. He is trying to transition to SF for his professional career as he is seemingly too small for a NBA PF. We didn't expect much from him and he is not considered a foundational piece for Canada, but I think he is playing pretty well in the FIBA Americas. I'd be surprised if he sticks with the Magic and might be better off honing his game in Europe. De does need to improve ball handling and shooting to be an effective SF.

Strangely I don't remember that much about him from his Iowa State days. But if he played a PF there, then I don't know a situation of a player suffering the worst from being a tweener (Bennett is a blessed man compared with him). He's no Kyle Hines to get away with playing PF in Europe having size like this. He is undoubtedly too small to play PF even in Europe let alone NBA. And you can't teach a guy to shoot or dribble in a manner adequate for modern SF when he is already 24 years old. He could be a fundamentally sound PF (even though he is sloppy even for this position) if not for his severe lack of size but I just don't see Ejim becoming a good SF for Europe. He is just too sloppy in face-to-the-basket mode. I suspect that it would be much easier for his NCAA teammate (and another 3/4 tweener) Niang to transform into SF either in Europe or in NBA than it would be for Melvin. It seems that he has a good work ethic and in fact he is a really a sympathetic player since he really tries to play the hardest and brings a lot of energy and effort to the court (so I wish him to prove me wrong) but it's such a pity that he is stuck between two positions.



Anyways despite your views, I think this is a team with tremendous potential. They are no where near where they can be, but even at this young age, I think they can win this tournament.

I think it's too early to judge about where they can be :) And, you know, a lot of NBA-obsessed people here in Europe already proclaimed Canada as the only possible rival of the team US for the next decade or so. And they base this estimation solely on the fact that Canada has a lot of hyped up NBA-potential prospects in recent years. But most of these recent prospects (and all of the current also) need to prove themselves both in NBA and in FIBA competitions and it doesn't look at the moment that transition to pro basketball would be totally seamless for most of them. Truth to be said, I don't like overly athletic yet not really clever teams and so far Canada looks like a team at least partially guilty of that.

I think that a lot of Canada's chances to become a FIBA basketball powerhouse (i.e., one of those 6-8 medal contenders in Olympics/WC, as you outlined) depends on how their backcourt prospects will develop. All of the guys like Tyler Ennis, Kevin Pangos and Olivier Hanlan have a terrific upside exactly for international basketball but how they will be able to translate it into international success is still a big question mark. By the way, I really liked what I've seen from Carleton product Phillip Scrubb in this tournament. It would be very interesting to see him in Europe this coming season. Excellent off-the-dribble shooter and overall an example of clever combo guard who is perfectly suited for European game.

And also since I don't follow Canadian basketball that much... who are the best Canadian prospects at the moment aside from Dillon Brooks and Rowan Barrett Jr. (the latter one is still too young to judge, I guess)?

mojo13
09-09-2015, 07:19 AM
Well, as they say, it's better to be late than the late. So here is my extremely late answer to mojo13's post.


Here I do agree with you. I don't see Canadian team as an Olympic/WC medals contender right now but since the core of the team is very young, a lot depends on the progress of the individual players and of this squad as a whole (which is also very important). So if the things will turn good for Canada with this, then it certainly can become a potent competitor even at the highest FIBA level.

First of all, before continuing I have to remark that, most probably, you know all these players (aside from Doornekamp :)) better than me since I don't like to watch NBA and do it only episodically and while NCAA is much more interesting for me, I never haven't watched it really extensively.


His stats kinda declined since then but as long as I've totally missed second group stage I won't comment on it. I think that Bennett is tremendously gifted athletically but he is too short for being PF (physical strength-wise it won't be a problem for him to play as a proper PF in NBA) but he has no strong outside game and no adequate ball-handling to play SF. And he is seriously overweight which hurts his quickness and also makes him unable to contain quick slashing wingers. Not the highest basketball IQ out there and hence we get a player desperately stuck between positions and lacking something to prosper in any of them. I think that it's still probable for him to find a niche in NBA but chances high that this would be a niche of decent role player.


Yes, you're right. Stauskas defense also was a positive surprise for me. For a player severely lacking lateral quickness he played quite rationally, showing solid defensive instincts, and was able to stay in front of his opponent most of the time. But what I've seen so far from him in this tournament hasn't made me any more positive towards his terrible one-dimensionality (is there such a word?) in offense. He is a brilliant spot-up shooter who also can be moderately good at shooting off-the-screen threes when he is 'in tune' but he can't create offense for himself, he is a below average slasher who shies away from the contact and against better competition he would struggle to secure many trips to charity stripe (where he is excellent, by the way). I don't know how he collected so many assists but from the games I've seen he can involve his teammates from time to time (thanks to his good discipline as his shot selection is mostly good and he would pass more oftne than forse the shot) but he lacks passing skills and court vision to be effective as an offense distributor. So Stauskas is really a one-trick pony, I suspect. He does that trick exceptionally well but even such pure shooters in Europe like Jaycee Carroll are capable of playing much more diverse offense than Stauskas.


In fact, I don't like players of Wiggins type. Extremely individualistic, often retardedly so, highly turnover prone, he is very far from being a likeable player for me. Maybe, he can shy away from the responsibility leaving clutch plays to teammates (I haven't seen this though) but he ain't insufficiently aggresive, imho, he is overly aggressive already. It would hurt his team much more often than it does now if Wiggins wasn't such a terrific athlete. His speed (for his size), explosiveness, tremendous body control and ability to finish strong close to the rim (and, my oh my, his strides when running with the ball in transition offense seem to be miles long) are making his NBA future very bright. Most probably he would flourish as an NBA star, maybe even of an All-Star caliber. But he is soooo inconsistent in his shooting (in this very tournament he airballed a free throw, a guy with good shooting mechanics could never do this), so stupid and so prone to force things on a major scale - and these are exactly the qualities for which you can get punished in a premier level of FIBA competition.


I liked him too when I saw him before in NCAA. He is still kinda lanky but he is fluid and not overly sloppy for an NBA big, can even put the ball on the floor. He would even be dangerous in face-up situations if he wasn't such a streaky shooter. He looks coachable and eager to help his team in any way he can (maybe, I'm mistaken but I've got such an impression from watching him playing). But Powell does nothing really well and can be viewed only as a role player for the elite level competition. Maybe, if he would continue to struggle in NBA, it's better for him to come to Europe as here he can diversify his game, learn something different from typical NBA mould of playing and maybe even develop into much more fundamentally sound and effective player than he is now.


I doubt that Nicholson offense is anything flashy even though I haven't see him that much. But right now even you agree with me about his perspectives and who can guess how many of all these first round Canadian draftees of a last 2-3 years will follow his career trajectory. Also I don't like Trey Lyles at all and I've watched a lot of him in Kentucky. Thompson is another matter. He's really good at the things he specializes in and when playing a limited role in a sensibly organized team he could do a lot of damage in FIBA competition due to his athleticism and rebounding instincts, but only if a coach can secure him being involved in some simple plays. Nevertheless, he's very limited offensively so he also needs a good PG in order to be effective cause his offensive usefulness would rapidly declne if there won't be enough transition offense and, even more importantly, some good lobs or drop offs from PG after which Tristan could just dunk without much of a second thought.


Strangely I don't remember that much about him from his Iowa State days. But if he played a PF there, then I don't know a situation of a player suffering the worst from being a tweener (Bennett is a blessed man compared with him). He's no Kyle Hines to get away with playing PF in Europe having size like this. He is undoubtedly too small to play PF even in Europe let alone NBA. And you can't teach a guy to shoot or dribble in a manner adequate for modern SF when he is already 24 years old. He could be a fundamentally sound PF (even though he is sloppy even for this position) if not for his severe lack of size but I just don't see Ejim becoming a good SF for Europe. He is just too sloppy in face-to-the-basket mode. I suspect that it would be much easier for his NCAA teammate (and another 3/4 tweener) Niang to transform into SF either in Europe or in NBA than it would be for Melvin. It seems that he has a good work ethic and in fact he is a really a sympathetic player since he really tries to play the hardest and brings a lot of energy and effort to the court (so I wish him to prove me wrong) but it's such a pity that he is stuck between two positions.


I think it's too early to judge about where they can be :) And, you know, a lot of NBA-obsessed people here in Europe already proclaimed Canada as the only possible rival of the team US for the next decade or so. And they base this estimation solely on the fact that Canada has a lot of hyped up NBA-potential prospects in recent years. But most of these recent prospects (and all of the current also) need to prove themselves both in NBA and in FIBA competitions and it doesn't look at the moment that transition to pro basketball would be totally seamless for most of them. Truth to be said, I don't like overly athletic yet not really clever teams and so far Canada looks like a team at least partially guilty of that.

I think that a lot of Canada's chances to become a FIBA basketball powerhouse (i.e., one of those 6-8 medal contenders in Olympics/WC, as you outlined) depends on how their backcourt prospects will develop. All of the guys like Tyler Ennis, Kevin Pangos and Olivier Hanlan have a terrific upside exactly for international basketball but how they will be able to translate it into international success is still a big question mark. By the way, I really liked what I've seen from Carleton product Phillip Scrubb in this tournament. It would be very interesting to see him in Europe this coming season. Excellent off-the-dribble shooter and overall an example of clever combo guard who is perfectly suited for European game.

And also since I don't follow Canadian basketball that much... who are the best Canadian prospects at the moment aside from Dillon Brooks and Rowan Barrett Jr. (the latter one is still too young to judge, I guess)?

Thanks for your feedback. Quite an interesting perspective.

As far as prospects I think the top Canadians with NBA level potential include the following NCAA players:
Jamal Murray - Kentucky. Likely a 2016 lottery pick. Possibly top 5 pick.
Kyle Wiltjer - Gonzaga. Likely all American this year, but maybe too unathletic for the NBA. Probably second round pick in 2016.
Dillon Brooks - Oregon. Possible late first or 2nd rounder in 2017.
Xavier Rathan Maynes - Florida State. Possible late first or 2nd rounder.

lots of others that could surprise as no one thought much of guys like Olynyk, Stuaskas, Sacre, Ejim, Nicholson, Hanlan etc when they entered their freshman year. Guys like Joseph, Thompson, Bennett and Wiggins were all top 20 ranked players in high school.

However there are no sure thing NBA players in the next 3 to 4 years besides Jamal Murray.

Current high school players:
Rowan Barrett jr and Simi Shittu seem most promising as both are Top level prospects in North America for their ages. But as you said it is too far off to say for certain as they are 15 and 16. Others with hope include Justin Jackson, Abu Kigab, Koby Mckewan, who are in the 17-18 range.

You'll get your wish with Scrubb as he signed with AEK. Another to keep an eye on that no one mentioned is Khem Birch - he led the D league in blocks last year and has signed with Usak Sportif in Turkey. Amazing defender, horrible offensive player.

And I think Ejim was the first Big 12 Player of the Year to go undrafted in a long time. He was very good against Mexico tonight.

Dtown
09-09-2015, 10:03 PM
Down to some very simple scenarios
Argentina wins: Argentina vs. Venezuela /Canada vs. Mexico
Mexico wins by less than 35: Canada vs Venezuela / Mexico vs. Argentina
Mexico wins by more than 35: Mexico vs. Venezuela / Canada vs. Argentina.

JGX
09-10-2015, 12:37 AM
Really disappointing showing from the Dominicans today. They were probably out of the top five anyway but they just didn't show up for their last-chance game. Would be crazy if Venezuela snags one of the Olympic spots.

ncjazz
09-10-2015, 02:53 AM
Argentina starting to pull away now. Their point guards are quite good and you still have old man Scola performing great. Definitely looking like a Argentina/Canada final.

ncjazz
09-10-2015, 03:13 AM
Arg/Mexico turned out to be a real barnburner.

locdogjr
09-10-2015, 03:25 AM
Canada vs VEnezuela
Mexico vs Argentina

gonna be some GOOOODDD games!

locdogjr
09-10-2015, 03:26 AM
Thanks for your feedback. Quite an interesting perspective.

As far as prospects I think the top Canadians with NBA level potential include the following NCAA players:
Jamal Murray - Kentucky. Likely a 2016 lottery pick. Possibly top 5 pick.
Kyle Wiltjer - Gonzaga. Likely all American this year, but maybe too unathletic for the NBA. Probably second round pick in 2016.
Dillon Brooks - Oregon. Possible late first or 2nd rounder in 2017.
Xavier Rathan Maynes - Florida State. Possible late first or 2nd rounder.

lots of others that could surprise as no one thought much of guys like Olynyk, Stuaskas, Sacre, Ejim, Nicholson, Hanlan etc when they entered their freshman year. Guys like Joseph, Thompson, Bennett and Wiggins were all top 20 ranked players in high school.

However there are no sure thing NBA players in the next 3 to 4 years besides Jamal Murray.

Current high school players:
Rowan Barrett jr and Simi Shittu seem most promising as both are Top level prospects in North America for their ages. But as you said it is too far off to say for certain as they are 15 and 16. Others with hope include Justin Jackson, Abu Kigab, Koby Mckewan, who are in the 17-18 range.

You'll get your wish with Scrubb as he signed with AEK. Another to keep an eye on that no one mentioned is Khem Birch - he led the D league in blocks last year and has signed with Usak Sportif in Turkey. Amazing defender, horrible offensive player.

And I think Ejim was the first Big 12 Player of the Year to go undrafted in a long time. He was very good against Mexico tonight.

Simi is a beast! I expect big things from that kid!

Dtown
09-10-2015, 03:28 AM
Mexico wins, and Canada now finishes a top of play.

Canada vs. Venezuela

Mexico vs. Argentina

CKR13
09-10-2015, 04:03 AM
The most dominating performance I've seen for Ayon. Let's see how Argentina will adjust in their rematch.

Hepcat
09-10-2015, 01:56 PM
Canada's depth and athleticism is unlike any previous Canadian team I've ever seen, surpassing a solid 2000 Olympic squad with Rowan Barrett, Michael Meeks, Steve Nash and Co.

Here's the stat sheet for Team Canada so far this tournament:

Canada Player Stats (http://www.americas2015.com/en/sequipos2.asp?t=&team=257&n=Canada&c=CAN&xtab=3)

My nightmare scenario is for Canada to be nipped by one or two points in the semi after having rolled over its last seven opponents.

:eek:

Here's hoping Canada beats Venezuela tomorrow and qualifies for the Olympics!

:cool:

mojo13
09-11-2015, 04:44 PM
Here's the stat sheet for Team Canada so far this tournament:

Canada Player Stats (http://www.americas2015.com/en/sequipos2.asp?t=&team=257&n=Canada&c=CAN&xtab=3)

My nightmare scenario is for Canada to be nipped by one or two points in the semi after having rolled over its last seven opponents.

:eek:

Here's hoping Canada beats Venezuela tomorrow and qualifies for the Olympics!

:cool:

The odds are pretty far in Canada's favor, but as we all know anything can happen in a single elimination game.
Canada's first 5 are vastly outplaying their competition, so I expect Coach Triano to shorten the rotation a bit more and not take any chances by playing the back-ups for extended stretches. Guys like Brady Heslip are still a liability out there unless his shot is falling and draining 3s.


MEX v ARG is going to bet an epic, no-holds barred game. That one is going to be fun to watch. Where my nerves are hoping the CAN v VEN game is a boring blowout in favor of Canada.

Hepcat
09-11-2015, 05:22 PM
The Venezuelans upset and knocked a Leo Rautins' led Team Canada out of the Olympics in 1992.

:mad:

Well it's payback time now!

:cool:

Hepcat
09-11-2015, 11:51 PM
So at the half it's:

Venezuela 38 Canada 37

Starting PG Cory Joseph has not been that effective and has played less than eight minutes. Troubling indeed.

:eek:

judasmartel
09-12-2015, 12:08 AM
54-53 Canada so far in the 3rd.

Will this be an upset for Venezuela, or will Canada find a way to win this game and qualify outright for the 2016 Rio Olympics?

Stay tuned.

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 12:17 AM
So after three quarters it's Canada 60 Venezuela 58.

Kelly Olynyk is beasting with 28 points and 9 rebounds in less than 27 minutes but everybody else seems to be sleepwalking.

:confused:

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 12:50 AM
What the hell? How can a foul be called with zero time on the clock?

:mad:

Unbelievable!

Venezuela 79 Canada 78

:eek:

Dtown
09-12-2015, 12:52 AM
Canada got robbed! What the hell was that foul?

Mika Hakinen
09-12-2015, 12:52 AM
OMFG What a loosers!:D

judasmartel
09-12-2015, 12:55 AM
79-78 Venezuela. They got to beat Canada after they ROFL-stomped them in the first round. They now have an automatic spot for the 2016 Rio Olympics.

Wow, what an upset, but anyone else sees home cooking here?

Steadysoul
09-12-2015, 01:03 AM
I just started giving Canada credit and they go and do this. C'mon Canada

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 01:04 AM
Other than Olynyk, the Venezuelans absolutely shut out Canada's starters. Here are the Efficiency numbers:

Joseph 5
Wiggins 2
Stauskas 2
Bennett 2
Olynyk 40

And Andrew Wiggins played over 26 minutes!

:eek:

Dtown
09-12-2015, 01:06 AM
79-78 Venezuela. They got to beat Canada after they ROFL-stomped them in the first round. They now have an automatic spot for the 2016 Rio Olympics.

Wow, what an upset, but anyone else sees home cooking here?

The foul call was suspect, especially given how many calls were let go over the game, HOWEVER Canada shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. They were up by 7 with something like 3 minutes to go and just couldn't score. Canada really has no one to blame but themselves. Best suck it up and get ready for next year.

cagney
09-12-2015, 01:15 AM
I don't like the foul call after watching it a number of times on a hi-def replay. Doornekamp got his hand on Vargas' shoulder with a fraction of a second on the clock and there was no way the latter would have been able to get to the ball in time. Considering what was at stake here, it would have been much better for the refs to let it go to OT.

That said, the Canadians put themselves in this position by not playing the way they could/should have and suffered the consequences. It was obvious the pressure got to them. They could have a very tough time making the Olympics now given potential match ups they could face in whichever qualifying tournament they get slotted into.

Steadysoul
09-12-2015, 01:18 AM
I don't like the foul call after watching it a number of times on a hi-def replay. Doornekamp got his hand on Vargas' shoulder with a fraction of a second on the clock and there was no way the latter would have been able to get to the ball in time. Considering what was at stake here, it would have been much better for the refs to let it go to OT.

That said, the Canadians put themselves in this position by not playing the way they could/should have and suffered the consequences. It was obvious the pressure got to them. They could have a very tough time making the Olympics now given potential match ups they could face in whichever qualifying tournament they get slotted into.

I'm still confused on how that is set up. Wouldn't they end up with the 5 closest countries?

tres equis
09-12-2015, 01:18 AM
What a shame, i wanted to see canada with their best players in the olympics, now they have to go to the olympic qualifying tournament, and it's going to be very difficult.

saalsapr
09-12-2015, 01:19 AM
I cant help but feel happy for Nestor Garcia. Guy is as humble as they come. Dude isnt even venezuelan but he celebrates this like he was born in Caracas. And Venezuela, never to be found in the Top 4 in the past 2 tournaments despite having guys like Greivis and Donta, while hosting a tournament, qualify for the semis with a seemingly weak team, and today they get an Olympic berth. You cant write this stuff up.

Terrorizer
09-12-2015, 01:24 AM
What a game! What a thriller! What an ending! That's why I'm a basketball fan :)


Canada got robbed! What the hell was that foul?
A controversial call (even though Venezuelan who fought for rebound was shoved down before the final whistle, so it's not THAT controversial, it's only controversial since this kind of off-the-ball fouls rarely got whistled in dying seconds of regulation time - and for a good reason, I have to add) but that doesn't make Canadian players behaviour after the final whistle any more justified. Such a bad attitude, such an abysmal, infamous conduct... sore losers who haven't shook hands with Venezuelans. It looks like Northern American national teams often have no moral dignity to show some respect to their victorious international opponents even if the loss was bitter and, according to them, unjust.

By the way, I rooted for Venezuela all the way long since this game looked like a perfect David vs Goliath story. The fact that I liked the way this Venezuelan team was playing under the reasonable guidance of husky-voiced coach Nestor Garcia only added to this feeling. And they shown that they deserve this win much more than Canadians. Venezuela outhustled, outworked, outwilled (he-he, just coined a term) Canada. While being nothing near Canada in terms of individual talent, they were much more hard-working and efficient as a team. After all, they played much smarter and Garcia just totally outwit Triano. In those moments when Canada was able to fire up a game and get into transition, it was quite obvious that Venezuela would have nothing to set off against Canada in such an uptempo game. But Venezuelans were successful in imposing 'their' game on disoriented and lacking mental strength and stamina Canadians. This win is really, really logical. Yes, Guillent have nailed some otherworldly threes to keep Venezuela in the game but wasn't Canada also overrelying on Kelly Olynyk's individual heroics too much?

What Venezuela lacks in pure individual talent (and they are inferior not only to Canada or Argentina, teams like Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico are also clearly better if only this parameter is concerned), it makes up with an excellent team chemistry, winning mentality and smart, team-oriented way of playing.

Congratulations, Venezuela! You're a tough nut to crack for gringos in any way - political or sportive :) No offense, North American basketball fans, but I guess that Canadians not shaking hands with the opposing team after the game gives me a moral right to add some spicey, un-PC joke here :)

Vamos, Venezuela!

tres equis
09-12-2015, 01:27 AM
Venezulea won without their best players, Greivys Vazquez(NBA), Gregory Echenique, Donta Smith, Luis Bethelmy...this just show you that having nba players do not necessarily mean success.

Terrorizer
09-12-2015, 01:27 AM
I'm also happy that Venezuela had this historic success without Greivis Vazquez. With this guy, whose primadonna mentality in NT I definitely don't like, on board there would be no such a brilliant team chemistry and most probably, they would have failed.

judasmartel
09-12-2015, 01:29 AM
-snip-

Here's to hoping we beat China and Iran in FIBA Asia in this similar fashion.

Basically, only 5 players from our WC team made it back to the team this year, mostly due to injuries and BS basketball politics (causing local pro team owners to hoard our nation's best players for their respective PBA championship runs). Most of our guys are new, and yeah, Blatche is back, but his WC form is pretty much gone.

What we lack in talent we WILL make up with HARD work and TEAM work.

Anyways, congratulations, Venezuela. You really deserved this win and the Olympic berth.

Vamos Venezuela! Laban Pilipinas!

Dtown
09-12-2015, 01:32 AM
One thing about Canada losing is it potentially sets up a group of death next summer for the OQT. Think of a group with 2 European teams and Canada potentially in Toronto? Still possible.

judasmartel
09-12-2015, 01:33 AM
One thing about Canada losing is it potentially sets up a group of death next summer for the OQT. Think of a group with 2 European teams and Canada potentially in Toronto? Still possible.

Oh, dear. Canada really has the worst luck in FIBA Americas.

tres equis
09-12-2015, 01:36 AM
The qualifiying tournament next year is going to be pretty crazy, i dont see my team making it to rio, even with our best players.

Steadysoul
09-12-2015, 01:37 AM
One thing about Canada losing is it potentially sets up a group of death next summer for the OQT. Think of a group with 2 European teams and Canada potentially in Toronto? Still possible.

Well there is always 2019 and 2020.

Terrorizer
09-12-2015, 01:41 AM
One thing about Canada losing is it potentially sets up a group of death next summer for the OQT. Think of a group with 2 European teams and Canada potentially in Toronto? Still possible.
Yep, but there is a positive aspect to it. If Canada will manage to go through this OQT 'group of death', it would give them a huge confidence boost and medal finish would be not that unlikely for them. If they fail, then it would be a clear indication that they are not ready for Olympic medals contender role they are groomed for. Many people say that this Canadian team could be especially dangerous in 2020 Olympics, maybe, they are right, who knows.

Steadysoul
09-12-2015, 01:45 AM
Yep, but there is a positive aspect to it. If Canada will manage to go through this OQT 'group of death', it would give them a huge confidence boost and medal finish would be not that unlikely for them. If they fail, then it would be a clear indication that they are not ready for Olympic medals contender role they are groomed for. Many people say that this Canadian team could be especially dangerous in 2020 Olympics, maybe, they are right, who knows.

For me their first test of their long term success will be the first time that they play Team USA in a game that matters and for now I don't think that's going to be in Brazil next year.

Dtown
09-12-2015, 01:52 AM
Canada reminds me of an, admittedly less talented, 2006 USA team. Young, full of potential, but not ready to play in hard fought games. Both games that were not settled by the fourth quarter they lost. That shows a distinct lack of leadership and experience. Given that they have an average age of about 23 that's forgivable, but they're not winning shit until they address that. USA in 2014 is the exception and not the rule, and even they had close games through 3 games, you will play tight games in the 4th quarter you need to know what to do.

Dtown
09-12-2015, 02:26 AM
Mexico 40 Argentina 35...If Argentina loses, I will admit to being extremely excited about next year's OQT.

JGX
09-12-2015, 02:26 AM
Canada just wasn't ready to play a championship-intensity game after a bunch of 50%-intensity group stage games where the opponents didn't really play defense. They don't have the talent required to play a Team USA-style offense in a serious game against a decent team. Corazon y huevos gap between the teams was massive as well.

This is where Venezuela was at the start of the summer, getting blown out by Spain's U18 team:
http://www.feb.es/Documentos/Archivo/Upload/final_espa%C3%B1a_venezuela_u18.pdf

Dtown
09-12-2015, 03:16 AM
congrats to those old Wiley vets Argentina. Even if it was for one last ride it was well deserved. Bad night for North America, though Mexico City is another attractive host.

ncjazz
09-12-2015, 04:39 AM
Must say did not see Venezuela winning this one. Wiggins only 8 points and not bringing a game the Canadians needed. Will be interesting to see if Canada can get its NBA guys to play in the QTs. Steve Nash has to be fuming right now after getting this team together. Almost Mexico and Venezuela advancing that would have been crazy.

Federoy
09-12-2015, 05:02 AM
By the way, I rooted for Venezuela all the way long since this game looked like a perfect David vs Goliath story. The fact that I liked the way this Venezuelan team was playing under the reasonable guidance of husky-voiced coach Nestor Garcia only added to this feeling. And they shown that they deserve this win much more than Canadians. Venezuela outhustled, outworked, outwilled (he-he, just coined a term) Canada. While being nothing near Canada in terms of individual talent, they were much more hard-working and efficient as a team. After all, they played much smarter and Garcia just totally outwit Triano. In those moments when Canada was able to fire up a game and get into transition, it was quite obvious that Venezuela would have nothing to set off against Canada in such an uptempo game. But Venezuelans were successful in imposing 'their' game on disoriented and lacking mental strength and stamina Canadians. This win is really, really logical. Yes, Guillent have nailed some otherworldly threes to keep Venezuela in the game but wasn't Canada also overrelying on Kelly Olynyk's individual heroics too much?

I agree. The Canadians could've been a little more gracious in how they handled defeat. But I wouldn't go as far as suggesting that their behavior is indicative of American & Canadian athletes. You never want to see bad sportsmanship, but it happens from time to time in all sports, encompassing all nationalities, particularly when there's a controversial end to a contest. Players and coaches get so emotionally invested that they lose perspective that these are just games, not a matter of life or death.

As far as the controversial ending, it's the old adage: don't allow the game to get close enough for the referees to influence the outcome. For Canada, for all its dominance throughout the tournament, when it mattered most, they didn't perform well enough to execute down the stretch in a tight game. I still like their chances in next year's OQT...they'll have a year of experience playing together under their belt, and with the addition of Tristan Thompson, they should be pretty formidable, even for the Europeans.

ncjazz
09-12-2015, 05:27 AM
I agree. The Canadians could've been a little more gracious in how they handled defeat. But I wouldn't go as far as suggesting that their behavior is indicative of American & Canadian athletes. You never want to see bad sportsmanship, but it happens from time to time in all sports, encompassing all nationalities, particularly when there's a controversial end to a contest. Players and coaches get so emotionally invested that they lose perspective that these are just games, not a matter of life or death.

As far as the controversial ending, it's the old adage: don't allow the game to get close enough for the referees to influence the outcome. For Canada, for all its dominance throughout the tournament, when it mattered most, they didn't perform well enough to execute down the stretch in a tight game. I still like their chances in next year's OQT...they'll have a year of experience playing together under their belt, and with the addition of Tristan Thompson, they should be pretty formidable, even for the Europeans.

Jamal Murray should help out a lot, better than having a Scrubb as backup PG.

Mindozas
09-12-2015, 05:30 AM
Woke up to watch results and I'm literally shocked from what I saw :eek: How Canada managed to screw up this way is beyond me. Reminds me of FIFA World CUp 1954. When Hungary were huge favorites, beat Germans 8-3 in group like Canada did with Venezuela winning by 20, but the same like Canadians, managed to lose in final 2-3, after leading 2-0 in 8mins... Unbelievable stories. Also bad news whoever will get Canada from Fiba Americas part in OQT, especially if it'll be held in Canada. Congrats to Venezuela and Argentina for making Olympics!

judasmartel
09-12-2015, 06:41 AM
Woke up to watch results and I'm literally shocked from what I saw :eek: How Canada managed to screw up this way is beyond me. Reminds me of FIFA World CUp 1954. When Hungary were huge favorites, beat Germans 8-3 in group like Canada did with Venezuela winning by 20, but the same like Canadians, managed to lose in final 2-3, after leading 2-0 in 8mins... Unbelievable stories. Also bad news whoever will get Canada from Fiba Americas part in OQT, especially if it'll be held in Canada. Congrats to Venezuela and Argentina for making Olympics!

Things like these MAY BE the reasons why we hate sports, but things like these ARE the REAL reasons why we love sports.

David and Goliath matches are awesome, but it's the best when little David actually beats big guy Goliath.

Can we start a thread for the best David vs Goliath matches in the history of international basketball, like right now?

Mindozas
09-12-2015, 08:18 AM
Things like these MAY BE the reasons why we hate sports, but things like these ARE the REAL reasons why we love sports.

David and Goliath matches are awesome, but it's the best when little David actually beats big guy Goliath.

Can we start a thread for the best David vs Goliath matches in the history of international basketball, like right now?

Of course you can, feel free to do this, it should be interesting

Steadysoul
09-12-2015, 02:53 PM
Woke up to watch results and I'm literally shocked from what I saw :eek: How Canada managed to screw up this way is beyond me. Reminds me of FIFA World CUp 1954. When Hungary were huge favorites, beat Germans 8-3 in group like Canada did with Venezuela winning by 20, but the same like Canadians, managed to lose in final 2-3, after leading 2-0 in 8mins... Unbelievable stories. Also bad news whoever will get Canada from Fiba Americas part in OQT, especially if it'll be held in Canada. Congrats to Venezuela and Argentina for making Olympics!

Well it's all about strategy. Group play is about getting enough wins to advance.

Jon_Koncak
09-12-2015, 04:04 PM
I'm all for upsets and cinderella stories but let's be honest here.Canada got robbed big time .You just dont call such a soft foul off the ball at this occasion.If it was a eurobasket game with qualification to Rio on stakes there would be blood.Canadians were very stoic on their reactions all things considered.And yes Canada choked big time and have only themselves to blame for turning what should have been an easy win into a close game but still they didnt deserve to lose on such a call.

Mindozas
09-12-2015, 04:25 PM
Well it's all about strategy. Group play is about getting enough wins to advance.

Of course there're cases like that, but I don't think it was one of these. Under current format, every game is important, cause wins carries to next stage, to qualify is not enough, so I'm sure both did their best in group stage too and Canada was much better

JGX
09-12-2015, 06:02 PM
Can we start a thread for the best David vs Goliath matches in the history of international basketball, like right now?

This box score should be sufficient: http://www.fibaamericas.com/box.asp?g=B&n=4&r=7875&t=MQVYHCKTOL

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 06:58 PM
My nightmare scenario is for Canada to be nipped by one or two points in the semi after having rolled over its last seven opponents.

:eek:

And so it transpired! But you know I wasn't even really afraid it could happen until well into the second half yesterday.

:(

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 07:08 PM
The odds are pretty far in Canada's favor, but as we all know anything can happen in a single elimination game. Canada's first 5 are vastly outplaying their competition, so I expect Coach Triano to shorten the rotation a bit more and not take any chances by playing the back-ups for extended stretches. Guys like Brady Heslip are still a liability out there unless his shot is falling and draining 3s.

You know it proved just the opposite yesterday as the Venezuelans took four out of Canada's five high-priced starters right off their game. Coach Triano had to dig deeper and extend his bench to get any results on the floor. Look at the numbers of Canada's starters on the stat sheet for yesterday's game:

Stat Sheet (http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/18/16/33/50/94wMw7r5sybw/)

:mad:

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 07:27 PM
The foul call was suspect, especially given how many calls were let go over the game, HOWEVER Canada shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. They were up by 7 with something like 3 minutes to go and just couldn't score. Canada really has no one to blame but themselves.

You are absolutely correct! Venezuela succeeded in slowing the pace of the game right down and taking Canada right out of the fast paced transition game the Canadian team had been playing. The Venezuelan team imposed its will on Canada's NBA stars and forced Canada to play a half court game to which it just wasn't well suited. And Coach Triano just couldn't find an answer. He was quite simply outcoached by his Venezuelan counterpart.

Here Leo Rautins succinctly explains what happened:

Rautins on Canada-Venezuela (http://www.tsn.ca/video/canada-coughs-up-olympic-berth-to-venezuela~702757)

:(

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 07:43 PM
Jamal Murray should help out a lot, better than having a Scrubb as backup PG.

Are you out of your cotton picking mind? Look at the stats from yesterday's game:

Canada-Venezuela Stats (http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/18/16/33/50/94wMw7r5sybw/)

While Phil Scrubbs didn't exactly star yesterday in the first game where anything was on the line, high priced NBA star Cory Joseph delivered even less! Scrubbs had an efficiency number of 7 in just less than 20 minutes, while Joseph had a number of only 5 in just over 21 minutes.

:mad:

ncjazz
09-12-2015, 11:16 PM
Are you out of your cotton picking mind? Look at the stats from yesterday's game:

Canada-Venezuela Stats (http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/18/16/33/50/94wMw7r5sybw/)

While Phil Scrubbs didn't exactly star yesterday in the first game where anything was on the line, high priced NBA star Cory Joseph delivered even less! Scrubbs had an efficiency number of 7 in just less than 20 minutes, while Joseph had a number of only 5 in just over 21 minutes.

:mad:

You apparently did not watch the one Pan Am game where Murray went wild and also must not realize that he is a big time NBA prospect.

Hepcat
09-12-2015, 11:34 PM
Excuse me but the reason Team Canada lost yesterday was not due to a lack of NBA hotshots. It was due to not being able to play FIBA ball when the chips were down.

:(

Terrorizer
09-13-2015, 12:46 AM
Excuse me but the reason Team Canada lost yesterday was not due to a lack of NBA hotshots. It was due to not being able to play FIBA ball when the chips were down.

:(
I rarely agree with you but here you've nailed it. In FIBA basketball it doesn't work like a team with bigger percentage of legit NBAers (or big time NBA prospects) would win against a team which severely lacks those players. Even on a different level it's quite obvious. Many teams from Western Africa (Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Cameroon and so on) have enough of players with solid NCAA pedigrees and top-level European (or even NBA) experience yet Angola always finds its way into AfroBasket finals due to supreme organization, solid coaching and better team chemistry on- and off-court.

By the way, Scrubb is definitely a good fit for international style and in this very tournament he was really some sort of unsung hero for Canada.

Well, at least, Canada was able to win one thriller out of three in this tournament. Not that Cory Joseph's buzzer-beater really mattered but still, as they say, bronze medal is better than no medal.

Steadysoul
09-13-2015, 12:54 AM
I rarely agree with you but here you've nailed it. In FIBA basketball it doesn't work like a team with bigger percentage of legit NBAers (or big time NBA prospects) would win against a team which severely lacks those players. Even on a different level it's quite obvious. Many teams from Western Africa (Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Cameroon and so on) have enough of players with solid NCAA pedigrees and top-level European (or even NBA) experience yet Angola always finds its way into AfroBasket finals due to supreme organization, solid coaching and better team chemistry on- and off-court.

By the way, Scrubb is definitely a good fit for international style and in this very tournament he was really some sort of unsung hero for Canada.

Well, at least, Canada was able to win one thriller out of three in this tournament. Not that Cory Joseph's buzzer-beater really mattered but still, as they say, bronze medal is better than no medal.

Too be fair Nigeria use to have mostly players direct form there. 2012 they scrapped the entire team save two or three players and went after players with NCAA experience.

MZT Skopje
09-13-2015, 08:49 AM
Venezuela won the americas. But this is a big suprise to me. Venezuela did not look good against Macedonia 3 weeks ago, as they lost against us.

Hepcat
09-13-2015, 01:52 PM
My full congratulations to Team Venezuela! Among nobody's favourites heading into the Tournament, they didn't show their full stuff until the playoffs when it really counted. Both Canada and Argentina were then very much surprised by the additional elements the Venezuelans had introduced to their game plans since the group stage. Very well done indeed!

:)

JGX
09-13-2015, 05:38 PM
Venezuela won the americas. But this is a big suprise to me. Venezuela did not look good against Macedonia 3 weeks ago, as they lost against us.

They didn't look good all summer, until the last few games--but those were the games that mattered. I wouldn't expect much from them at the Olympics though.

I don't know what to expect from Canada in the future. They are deep in pretty good players, but no real top-level players and quite likely no one who will become one. They might just end up as a poor man's France. On the other hand, they are fortunate to have their players entering their prime at a time when most of the top non-US teams are in decline. The new qualifying system is going to be difficult for them.

Steadysoul
09-13-2015, 06:34 PM
They didn't look good all summer, until the last few games--but those were the games that mattered. I wouldn't expect much from them at the Olympics though.

I don't know what to expect from Canada in the future. They are deep in pretty good players, but no real top-level players and quite likely no one who will become one. They might just end up as a poor man's France. On the other hand, they are fortunate to have their players entering their prime at a time when most of the top non-US teams are in decline. The new qualifying system is going to be difficult for them.

Outside of Wiggins its mostly role players. Canada was severely overhyped the last few years and it's not all their fault. A variety of people were ready to crown them the next big thing in FIBA without any real evidence to support it. Will they play in more big events? probably. Will they manage to medal in them? not likely.
But I think again this proves a point that I've been making for years, going all out in every game is a waste. You play close games but you don't go all out for a game in group play that you don't need to advance.

mojo13
09-13-2015, 08:02 PM
Outside of Wiggins its mostly role players. Canada was severely overhyped the last few years and it's not all their fault. A variety of people were ready to crown them the next big thing in FIBA without any real evidence to support it. Will they play in more big events? probably. Will they manage to medal in them? not likely.
But I think again this proves a point that I've been making for years, going all out in every game is a waste. You play close games but you don't go all out for a game in group play that you don't need to advance.

Canada went 16-3 for the summer and routinely beat their opponents by 20plus points. The average age of this team is 23. As we see, with youth and inexperience comes the good and the bad.

I watched every single game they played this summer and the game against Venezuela was horrific to watch. Everyone to the man played about as bad as I saw all summer. It all came together at once. Yet they still had many opportunities to blow the game open. However their self inflicted incompetence, dodgy reffing and tremendous luck by their opponent kept the game close to the final shot. That allowed them to be victimized by the ever present Latin American corruption that permeates these third world countries in every aspect, and most sadly sports. If it is close enough, we all know a call like that it's likely to happen. Regardless it was Canada's implosion that put them in that position - poor coaching by Canada and one of their best players hospitalized by food poisoning didn't help. As I said, everything that could go wrong went wrong. As can happen in a single elimination game.

This is still a very, very good team that I think right now can beat anyone outside of the World's three or so elite countries. And they will get better and better.

European teams should be wary in the the pre Olympic qualifiers. I wouldn't want to be in Canada's pool if I was you.

Hepcat
09-13-2015, 08:08 PM
...Canada and one of their best players hospitalized by food poisoning didn't help.

Who was actually hospitalized, when and for how long?

:confused:

mojo13
09-13-2015, 08:16 PM
Who was actually hospitalized, when and for how long?

:confused:

Nik Stauskas was hospitalized for food poisoning the entire day before.
Thus he played very few minutes in that game. We couldn't figure out why the heck Triano was not playing him.
Still don't understand why Wiggins sat for a big portion of the second half.

mojo13
09-13-2015, 09:12 PM
Nik Stauskas was hospitalized for food poisoning the entire day before.
Thus he played very few minutes in that game. We couldn't figure out why the heck Triano was not playing him.
Still don't understand why Wiggins sat for a big portion of the second half.


Supposedly Anthony Bennett had food poisoning as well. What the hell? I thought it was an unwritten fiba Americas rules that you don't eat the local food the final week of competition!

Federoy
09-14-2015, 01:25 AM
Congrats to Venezuela. I don't think anyone predicted they'd be standing at the top of the podium when it was all said and done. To their credit, they managed to shake off some early training camp issues and peak at the right time. It's no secret that over the last several years Venezuela has poured money into their national program's training budget, sending the team across the globe to train against top flight competition. It looks like all of those preparations finally paid off with a title.

Federoy
09-14-2015, 01:36 AM
Canada went 16-3 for the summer and routinely beat their opponents by 20plus points. The average age of this team is 23. As we see, with youth and inexperience comes the good and the bad.

I watched every single game they played this summer and the game against Venezuela was horrific to watch. Everyone to the man played about as bad as I saw all summer. It all came together at once. Yet they still had many opportunities to blow the game open. However their self inflicted incompetence, dodgy reffing and tremendous luck by their opponent kept the game close to the final shot. That allowed them to be victimized by the ever present Latin American corruption that permeates these third world countries in every aspect, and most sadly sports. If it is close enough, we all know a call like that it's likely to happen. Regardless it was Canada's implosion that put them in that position - poor coaching by Canada and one of their best players hospitalized by food poisoning didn't help. As I said, everything that could go wrong went wrong. As can happen in a single elimination game.

This is still a very, very good team that I think right now can beat anyone outside of the World's three or so elite countries. And they will get better and better.

European teams should be wary in the the pre Olympic qualifiers. I wouldn't want to be in Canada's pool if I was you.

I agree with most of what you said. I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest that Canada has more talent now then they've ever had, and with proper cultivation and maturity, this team can easily vault itself into the Top 10 best NTs in the world. Certainly the refereeing can be scrutinized, but that ultimately didn't cost them the game. They just didn't perform well enough to beat a very game Venezuela team that was allowed to play at their pace. There's much to look forward to with this team, and they have as good a shot as anybody to win a qualifying birth next year.

Arsonist
09-03-2016, 09:51 AM
I'm all for upsets and cinderella stories but let's be honest here.Canada got robbed big time .You just dont call such a soft foul off the ball at this occasion.If it was a eurobasket game with qualification to Rio on stakes there would be blood.Canadians were very stoic on their reactions all things considered.And yes Canada choked big time and have only themselves to blame for turning what should have been an easy win into a close game but still they didnt deserve to lose on such a call.

I think you're okay here have the wrong picture of the lack they did to Vargas and lack Gregory was called at the right time, very good arbitral decision, deserved victory in Venezuela

9185

wwwacek
04-27-2017, 09:31 PM
I loved the 2015 tournament! Very happy for Venezuela!