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View Full Version : Group A, Day 6: Serbia vs. Spain



JGX
09-04-2014, 03:24 AM
I haven't checked the odds but surely Spain is below 1.10 to win the tournament by now.

DunkOnYou
09-04-2014, 06:08 AM
Milos Teodosic loves to play against spain. He just loves to break hearts. Its going to be interesting i think.

Khalid80
09-04-2014, 07:33 AM
Spain won't back down.. They'll get the win and I think the point difference will be between 15-20 points for Spian

Darrell Armstrong
09-04-2014, 09:53 AM
It's a rest day for Spain. Anything can happen, but I think it's a great opportunity to let the least experienced members of the team face a challenge and learn how to deal with close matches. Spain couldn't handle those without Pau and Navarro last Eurobasket, it was either a blowout or a narrow defeat.

Oly_fan
09-04-2014, 10:04 AM
If Serbia loses, are they 4th no matter what?

Joško Poljak Fan
09-04-2014, 10:08 AM
I think Serbian players won't actualy start playing untill the 1/8 finals. When they get there they'll be the toughest opponent possible (apart from Spain of curse). Just a hunch I have while watching them.

Mindozas
09-04-2014, 10:09 AM
It's a rest day for Spain. Anything can happen, but I think it's a great opportunity to let the least experienced members of the team face a challenge and learn how to deal with close matches. Spain couldn't handle those without Pau and Navarro last Eurobasket, it was either a blowout or a narrow defeat.

So there's possibility that Pau, Navarro might be rested?



If Serbia loses, are they 4th no matter what?

No. They might be 3rd if France will lose against Iran up to 26pts

Dr. Martin
09-04-2014, 10:32 AM
I think Serbian players won't actualy start playing untill the 1/8 finals. When they get there they'll be the toughest opponent possible (apart from Spain of curse). Just a hunch I have while watching them.

I can't believe they are doing that. If so, shame on them.

Pero
09-04-2014, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by Oly_fan
If Serbia loses, are they 4th no matter what?


No. They might be 3rd if France will lose against Iran up to 26pts
So Serbia will be 99% 4th :p and will play against the winer of the ARG-GRE game.

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 10:40 AM
So there's possibility that Pau, Navarro might be rested?

No. They might be 3rd if France will lose against Iran up to 26pts

Hah, if that happens a lot of people in fantasy leagues will be pissed :D

Or we might be third if France loses by exactly 7 from Iran (losing by 26 is kinda impossible IMHO). I mean, France can lose against Iran only if they tank (and have to set up the score to lose by max 7, above that and they fall out of the championship).


I can't believe they are doing that. If so, shame on them.

It is possible, but not much probable. But everybody will be happier with us losing games in this group stage if we manage to win games in the playoff stage.

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 10:41 AM
So Serbia will be 99% 4th :p and will play against the winer of the ARG-GRE game.

If France tanks so they don't optionally meet Spain before semis (scenario: losing by 1-7 against Iran), Serbia will play with the second place finisher of that group (Gre/Arg/Cro).

Pero
09-04-2014, 10:58 AM
If France tanks so they don't optionally meet Spain before semis (scenario: losing by 1-7 against Iran), Serbia will play with the second place finisher of that group (Gre/Arg/Cro).

I don't believe that such a disgrace is an option for them.

Mindozas
09-04-2014, 10:59 AM
Hah, if that happens a lot of people in fantasy leagues will be pissed :D

I sold every player I had, whos team plays for nothing in this round: Pau, Blatche, Splitter :) I know it's risky, cause Pau or Blatche can play up to 15-20mins and still collect decent numbers, but well, if there's even a small chance that they won't play at all, I can't count on them :) We'll see what happens, but now I'm hoping for Pau to rest in this game :p


I don't believe that such a disgrace is an option for them.

Remember France-Greece in 2009 :)

Darrell Armstrong
09-04-2014, 11:11 AM
So there's possibility that Pau, Navarro might be rested?


I think it's quite likely. In 2011, Spain's last first round match was a loss against Turkey, with all the starters benched in the last quarter.

Pero
09-04-2014, 11:40 AM
Remember France-Greece in 2009 :)
This is about a game between France and ....Iran (not that I have something against Iran of course)

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 11:40 AM
I don't believe that such a disgrace is an option for them.

There is no cavalry or shame in competitions. I learned that the hard way.


I sold every player I had, whos team plays for nothing in this round: Pau, Blatche, Splitter :) I know it's risky, cause Pau or Blatche can play up to 15-20mins and still collect decent numbers, but well, if there's even a small chance that they won't play at all, I can't count on them :) We'll see what happens, but now I'm hoping for Pau to rest in this game :p


Ooooh, you shouldn't have sold Blatche, I think he will play except if he is hurt. And he will put up a lot of points Senegal is the type of team that he can dominate.

HeinrichMohr
09-04-2014, 11:42 AM
I doubt that the Gasols and Navarro will rest but in case the game goes fine for the Spanish interests, they will count with less minutes. Besides, it's time to use Abrines and Claver a bit more.

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 11:42 AM
This is about a game between France and ....Iran (not that I have something against Iran of course)

They have Haddadi, who is not easy to guard. They could just play so it looks like they can't contain him, play a bit aggressively on him, "foul out" a lot of tall players because they can't contain him and there you go. France loses by 5, goes on as 4th, Serbia is 3rd.

Joško Poljak Fan
09-04-2014, 11:46 AM
I can't believe they are doing that. If so, shame on them.
I wasn't thinking they're tanking games, just that they aren't yet putting in the maximum effort and when the tournament will be on the line they'll somewhat squeeze out all their is to squeeze imo :)

miloje
09-04-2014, 11:48 AM
spain has motivation vs serbia always so i expect 15 points +, they didnt forgot teo in 2010 and ricky remembers serbia-lithuania tanking comedy from youth competition :D

Pero
09-04-2014, 11:59 AM
There is no cavalry or shame in competitions. I learned that the hard way.


They have Haddadi, who is not easy to guard. They could just play so it looks like they can't contain him, play a bit aggressively on him, "foul out" a lot of tall players because they can't contain him and there you go. France loses by 5, goes on as 4th, Serbia is 3rd.

Ok, but still I think you should agree that this is a long shot.

Raze Lupin
09-04-2014, 12:04 PM
Serbia will beat Spain by +4! That is my hope anyways.

either that or they lose a close game, I think the Serbs will make it interesting!

Raze Lupin
09-04-2014, 12:05 PM
I think Serbian players won't actualy start playing untill the 1/8 finals. When they get there they'll be the toughest opponent possible (apart from Spain of curse). Just a hunch I have while watching them.

I believe this too

Dr. Martin
09-04-2014, 12:37 PM
I wasn't thinking they're tanking games, just that they aren't yet putting in the maximum effort and when the tournament will be on the line they'll somewhat squeeze out all their is to squeeze imo :)

Maybe, but I don't believe, I believe that they will be squeezed if they continue like this.

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 02:30 PM
Ok, but still I think you should agree that this is a long shot.

Of course it is, but look at the Australians :D :D :D

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 04:15 PM
Iran leading against France by 8 at the end of the 1st quarter

mayteromanl
09-04-2014, 08:48 PM
19 pts difference for us. Love it! Lets hope for the 3rd quarter, Serbia is not an easy opponent, but trust in my guys

KORADZ
09-04-2014, 09:02 PM
LINK
Basketball World Cup - Serbia Vs Spain
http://www.koradz11.com/2014/07/blog-post_15.html

miloje
09-04-2014, 09:39 PM
spaniards protected like polar bears

ThePeraCar
09-04-2014, 09:51 PM
Yepp i hope they lose

HeinrichMohr
09-04-2014, 09:55 PM
Can't understand the way that Orenga is using Ibaka.

Mr Chacho
09-04-2014, 09:58 PM
Thanks referees for the win, no serbians? I have ever thought that say you lose for the referees is from looser, when my team loose, it wasn't for the referees, is because you played worse than the opponent. If you say that you lose thanks to the referees, you won't improve.

PD: Djorjevic is a boss, I don't understand why he didn't hit Orenga hardly.

DunkOnYou
09-04-2014, 10:01 PM
This game was a disgrace. You know, i wasnt paying too much attention to the haters of coach Orenga. I was quite happy with his job, in fact. But todays game was like seeing the light. This game belonged to the bench guys, they should've played the whole game.Instead he burns the starters to ashes making everyone unhappy. The face of ibaka was priceless. And then this absolutely pathetic, ridiculous , depressing to see shouting fight with sasha djordjevic with 30 seconds till the end of the game. And this was the game that Orenga wanted to use as spring for "good sensations towards the meaningful games"... This is crazy absurd.

miloje
09-04-2014, 10:02 PM
Thanks referees for the win, no serbians? I have ever thought that say you lose for the referees is from looser, when my team loose, it wasn't for the referees, is because you played worse than the opponent. If you say that you lose thanks to the referees, you won't improve.

you missed the point, but nevermind. we saw in last tournaments how spain plays when the match is tie... you wont win the gold ;)

DunkOnYou
09-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Dont worry, it wont be against serbia. You lack talent.

usagre
09-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Thanks referees for the win, no serbians? I have ever thought that say you lose for the referees is from looser, when my team loose, it wasn't for the referees, is because you played worse than the opponent. If you say that you lose thanks to the referees, you won't improve.

I agree with you 100 percent. Blaming the refs is a loser mentality and the easiest way to avoid responsibility for a loss.

DunkOnYou
09-04-2014, 10:04 PM
you missed the point, but nevermind. we saw in last tournaments how spain plays when the match is tie... you wont win the gold ;)

All you see is spaniards smashing serbs out there in the court. Must be painful to watch! Poor sasha was having seizures in the bench.

Darknemo2000
09-04-2014, 10:05 PM
I agree with you 100 percent. Blaming the refs is a loser mentality and the easiest way to avoid responsibility for a loss.

You have to admit though, that officiating in this world cup is almost as bad as it was in FIFA's World Cup.

DunkOnYou
09-04-2014, 10:11 PM
How ironic is that greece is going to kick serbia out of the wc? its gonna be raining chairs in madrid. if someone goes to the game, take an umbrella!

Mr Chacho
09-04-2014, 10:15 PM
How ironic is that greece is going to kick serbia out of the wc? its gonna be raining chairs in madrid. if someone goes to the game, take an umbrella!

We will see Kristic vs Bourousis?

usagre
09-04-2014, 10:15 PM
You have to admit though, that officiating in this world cup is almost as bad as it was in FIFA's World Cup.

I agree it has been very inconsistent but I think if you are on the wrong side of it you just got to work thru it.
Even if it is the last play of the game and let's say a call goes against you I still refuse to attribute a loss to one call instead of the entire game.

ThePeraCar
09-04-2014, 10:17 PM
Yep i cant wait for Greece to kick us out,BTW u miss the point we don't blame the refa but why do refs favor this much spainards at +20 cmon lol

Raze Lupin
09-04-2014, 10:23 PM
Yep i cant wait for Greece to kick us out,BTW u miss the point we don't blame the refa but why do refs favor this much spainards at +20 cmon lol

Why do you want to lose to Greece??

ThePeraCar
09-04-2014, 10:36 PM
Maybe something will change in serbiN bball then...

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 10:37 PM
We will see Kristic vs Bourousis?

Well, probably, but with Krstic being injured before the WC he is not in his top shape, so I don't think he can really throw a chair. Shoes on the other hand - I can see that could happen.


How ironic is that greece is going to kick serbia out of the wc? its gonna be raining chairs in madrid. if someone goes to the game, take an umbrella!

Stop trolling.


I agree it has been very inconsistent but I think if you are on the wrong side of it you just got to work thru it.
Even if it is the last play of the game and let's say a call goes against you I still refuse to attribute a loss to one call instead of the entire game.

Where did you see anyone blaming the refs for the loss? You totally took what people were saying out of context, they're just complaining that as always Spaniards are protected by the refs. We are all well aware that we are the weaker team, but when you as the weaker team, trailing by 15-20, have the refs calling nonexistent calls against you, of course people will be pissed off, you would be happy with that? I don't know if you ever played organized sports, but let me put it this way - imagine yourself playing against the Dream team (Jordan, Shaq, Malone, etc. in their best years), and they are winning against everyone by a lot, and now also they are winning against you. And referees are calling nonexisting calls. And dream teams coach is pressuring the referees. It's similar to getting bullied.
And of course the team should react to it and the coach should react to it, and I am happy that Djordjevic and Markovic did react.

And officiating in this tournament (for now it may get worst) is on the level of the Fifa WC group phase at least (that bad).


Why do you want to lose to Greece??

That was probably sarcasm as DunkOnYou is trolling/flaming.

HeinrichMohr
09-04-2014, 10:44 PM
The officials had some bad calls, but it was kinda stupid to see Djordjevic and Orenga arguing when the game was absolutely decided.

mchale
09-04-2014, 10:50 PM
Spain as always in the last 10 years gets all the calls.This basketball junta has become very annoying

Milos.Djuric
09-04-2014, 10:55 PM
The officials had some bad calls, but it was kinda stupid to see Djordjevic and Orenga arguing when the game was absolutely decided.

I don't know what was that about. I think Djordjevic was maybe trying to make a statement for the future.
EDIT: Now I read Djordjevic's statement, he wants respect for our team as we are trying to win fairly, and Orenga was complaining because of a foul committed by Claver when they were leading 15-20, 1:30 seconds before the. He said that behavior is unacceptable and that he wanted to protect the team. This Spanish team doesn't need additional help from referees. Further more he said the message is clear, it's not a problem like with the referee from the second game (against France), Spanish victory is a deserved one, but we're here to fight until the end and I want respect that my players deserve.

Joško Poljak Fan
09-04-2014, 11:11 PM
I don't know what was that about. I think Djordjevic was maybe trying to make a statement for the future.
EDIT: Now I read Djordjevic's statement, he wants respect for our team as we are trying to win fairly, and Orenga was complaining because of a foul committed by Claver when they were leading 15-20, 1:30 seconds before the. He said that behavior is unacceptable and that he wanted to protect the team. This Spanish team doesn't need additional help from referees. Further more he said the message is clear, it's not a problem like with the referee from the second game (against France), Spanish victory is a deserved one, but we're here to fight until the end and I want respect that my players deserve.
Sale got my respect with what he said!

HeinrichMohr
09-04-2014, 11:18 PM
Spain as always in the last 10 years gets all the calls.This basketball junta has become very annoying

The solution is very simple. In two words: Boris Stankovic.

Dule_Vujosevic
09-04-2014, 11:26 PM
7156
Don't forget who tought you basketball, Spaniards :p

HeinrichMohr
09-04-2014, 11:29 PM
7156
Don't forget who tought you basketball, Spaniards :p

Oh wait... you mean that wasn't Orenga?????????????

Mr Chacho
09-05-2014, 12:17 AM
7156
Don't forget who tought you basketball, Spaniards :p

WTF!!!! So Bodiroga, Fucka and Saras have tought basketball. Why everybody is whinig about a game which doesn't matter? Spain first and Serbia fourth. It wouldn't change although Serbia would have won.:mad::mad::mad:

Milos.Djuric
09-05-2014, 01:06 AM
WTF!!!! So Bodiroga, Fucka and Saras have tought basketball. Why everybody is whinig about a game which doesn't matter? Spain first and Serbia fourth. It wouldn't change although Serbia would have won.:mad::mad::mad:

Mr Chacho right on the money! The game that doesn't matter! The game in which if Serbia won, absolutely nothing would change, Spain would be 1st, Serbia would be 4th! So why does Orenga complains when he is winning in this unimportant match? Why does he complains several times in the last 2 minutes? And why does he complains to referees that already called bad calls that helped his team?!? Spain acts like they are the one who is losing! The other team is a weaker team, but they are playing their best and giving all they've got even though they are down by 20. Rubio throws the ball out of bounds and then acts up like it wasn't from him. And then he argues about it. Same with Orenga. That is disrespectful to the other team, and it's bullying tactics.
If you don't get that, what can I do.

DunkOnYou
09-05-2014, 05:54 AM
How ridiculous in a scale of 1 to 10 is the statement that spaniards are protected by refs for the last 10 years? I would say a 11. Or that we are awarded non existent calls. Pure BS. When you run the floor like that, and the bigs are that much more skilled, theres only one thing to do: drop the hammer. Having said that, Orenga should pack his stuff and go. Today better than tomorrow.

GuTO
09-05-2014, 06:03 AM
How ridiculous in a scale of 1 to 10 is the statement that spaniards are protected by refs for the last 10 years? I would say a 11. Or that we are awarded non existent calls. Pure BS. When you run the floor like that, and the bigs are that much more skilled, theres only one thing to do: drop the hammer. Having said that, Orenga should pack his stuff and go. Today better than tomorrow.

refs are pathetic, the same happened against my team.

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 08:04 AM
The other team is a weaker team, but they are playing their best and giving all they've got even though they are down by 20.

In the second half Serbia was fouling left and right without a clear purpose. Some of the fouls were pure nonsense, like Katic hacking Marc at half court early on the clock. Also, Djordevic took out some key players and didn't overplay them trying to squeeze out a win. I didn't see them like trying to win the game, but trying to make a statement in case both teams meet again later in the tournament. I reckon the argument with Orenga and the two technicals went along this line, too.

Having said that, it's true Spain's side is complaining too much. I don't care about Orenga, because he's such a poor coach there's nothing else he can do to help the team. I doubt he really understands what's happening in the court, he just automatically challenges every call with or without reason. I bet some day he'll protest a call in Spain's favour, just out of habit. But the players should know better.

Didn't anyone notice how Pau went to his coach and told him to put Claver in the court instead? Hilarious.

DunkOnYou
09-05-2014, 08:41 AM
Your team got smashed and it wasnt because of refs. Everyone gets bad calls. Not ONLY spain's rivals.

LjutiKrilo
09-05-2014, 09:30 AM
i expected 30 mins for claver, at least 15 mins for abrines, rejes... whats the problem, you still cannot forget 1/4-finals in turkey, or is it orenga?
i also expected defeat around 25-30 points difference and i didn't had any illusions that we can win this one.
but behavior of most spanish players, even when they had 20+ lead ... :facepalm:
rubio's argument, claver's foul, flopping, referees help, grandma's in the audience... is that necessary? you cannot finish the game without brawls and stuff?
true champions doesn't act like that.

marc was the only one who acted as a true gentleman and sportsman. rest of the simply deserves scariolo, so the annoying poker is back on the road. rudy, golden boy navarro, rubio...

fasoulaki
09-05-2014, 10:08 AM
Thats Spain. It was always like that and it will be always like that.
After so many years now this is a well known fact and the oppoents have to be aware of that and try to keep calm.
If your are affected by the spanish soap opera it is your own fault.

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 10:39 AM
(...) grandma's in the audience... is that necessary?

Complaining about our innocent grandmas.... oh boy boy, that's such a low blow... :D


you cannot finish the game without brawls and stuff?
true champions doesn't act like that.

Just like the good old Yugoslavia. With the exception of Delibasic and Dalipagic they never had problems to start a brawl.


rest of the simply deserves scariolo

That's cruel.


Having said that, it's true Spain's side is complaining too much. I don't care about Orenga, because he's such a poor coach there's nothing else he can do to help the team. I doubt he really understands what's happening in the court, he just automatically challenges every call with or without reason. I bet some day he'll protest a call in Spain's favour, just out of habit. But the players should know better.

Agreed. That's a bad business because when players should be thinking about the next move or play to perform in the next possession, they are still thinking about the previous action. Soon or later will face a tight game and it's essential to keep calm. Orenga should know that and motivate better his own crew.


Didn't anyone notice how Pau went to his coach and told him to put Claver in the court instead? Hilarious.

Yeah. Why do you think they put Orenga in charge? Because of his professional record?

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 10:43 AM
grandma's in the audience... is that necessary? you cannot finish the game without brawls and stuff?
true champions doesn't act like that.

marc was the only one who acted as a true gentleman and sportsman. rest of the simply deserves scariolo, so the annoying poker is back on the road. rudy, golden boy navarro, rubio...

What do you have against grannies? :p

Jokes aside, I saw a lot more bitching from Marc than Navarro yesterday. And less flopping than usual. Also, the team being blown up is the one usually roughing it up and looking to start a brawl. There's little benefit for the winning team to get tangled in a fight.

Mr Chacho
09-05-2014, 10:56 AM
I have a question, the people hated Spain when we used to lose on quaterfinals or semifinals? Or only the people hate somebody while is winning?

Raze Lupin
09-05-2014, 11:11 AM
I have a question, the people hated Spain when we used to lose on quaterfinals or semifinals? Or only the people hate somebody while is winning?

Yes many people are jealous and haters, They hate Spain because Spain is strong. USA has the same problem everyone most hates the USA. Spain wins now they hate Spain

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 11:14 AM
I have a question, the people hated Spain when we used to lose on quaterfinals or semifinals? Or only the people hate somebody while is winning?

OMG... what have you said... now you'll get a legion of bitter Yugos and Greeks knocking at your door.

Pero
09-05-2014, 11:28 AM
Yes many people are jealous and haters, They hate Spain because Spain is strong. USA has the same problem everyone most hates the USA. Spain wins now they hate Spain
I don't think that people hate the USA team. Most people admire them.
p.s. I personally don't hate the Spanish team either but they certainly have a bad attitude sometimes.

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 11:51 AM
I have a question, the people hated Spain when we used to lose on quaterfinals or semifinals? Or only the people hate somebody while is winning?

Hate is too strong a word. I think many people are annoyed or turned off by the attitude of some Spanish players and coaches toward the refs, past instances of flopping (haven't seen any in this tournament) and an arrogant attitude that sometimes manifests itself after a play. But I think you will be hard-pressed to find a single basketball fan on the planet who does not admire the brilliant, imaginative, skillful play of the Spanish team on the court.

Milos.Djuric
09-05-2014, 12:39 PM
In the second half Serbia was fouling left and right without a clear purpose. Some of the fouls were pure nonsense, like Katic hacking Marc at half court early on the clock.


Katic, who can play some OK games, is often a tree. I know the foul, and I facepalmed. That is classic Katic nonsense foul.



Also, Djordjevic took out some key players and didn't overplay them trying to squeeze out a win. I didn't see them like trying to win the game, but trying to make a statement in case both teams meet again later in the tournament.


I never said he was trying to squeeze a win, I said he was giving an effort against overwhelming odds (I'm abusing this term a bit in the last hour :)) and yes that was a statement, "even if you are beating us down (score vise) we will give it our best shot". It was practically a warm up game if meet up in the tournament again, there was no need to bite for a victory for either team, and yeah it is a statement that Serbia will fight.

Teodosic played 30, he usually plays about 25-26, Raduljica played 25, that's his normal court time. Bogdanovic was on field 26 minutes, more or less his standard (and a player I wouldn't call our key player), but Kalinic was more on the field he is a better defender. Please don't say Krstic is our key player, the guy who is still searching for his rhythm with this team, who missed 7 field goals and 4 free throws against Brazil. I feel sorry for people who have him in their fantasy teams. Markovic played 26 minutes. Bjelica was the only player that was rested a bit, 4-5 minutes more than usual. I don't really agree that he didn't use the players to try and compete in this game, but I would say he did try some combinations for the future.

Milos.Djuric
09-05-2014, 12:48 PM
I have a question, the people hated Spain when we used to lose on quaterfinals or semifinals? Or only the people hate somebody while is winning?

Hate is a strong word here, "irritation" would be more appropriate, though in many occasions it graduates into hate. And I would say yes, people used to be irritated with the spanish team non the less when they were not the top dog. It's all about image, if you are a dirty player and act bad, don't expect other people to like you/respect you. I respect the USA I do, I feel a bit of sorrow as there is not enough teams that can compete with them and I was kinda happy that Spain could take this team out, but in these 5 games Spanish NT was trying really hard to lose fans like me (and probably succeeded). I know, you don't really care about if we like your team, but trust us, the rationale behind our irritation comes from real facts, or said in a different way "the problem is not in us, the problem is in you (spanish team)". And that's it.

CHBB
09-05-2014, 12:59 PM
Hate is too strong a word. I think many people are annoyed or turned off by the attitude of some Spanish players and coaches toward the refs, past instances of flopping (haven't seen any in this tournament) and an arrogant attitude that sometimes manifests itself after a play. But I think you will be hard-pressed to find a single basketball fan on the planet who does not admire the brilliant, imaginative, skillful play of the Spanish team on the court. This pretty much sums it up for me. 2012 was particularly disgraceful.

LjutiKrilo
09-05-2014, 01:07 PM
But I think you will be hard-pressed to find a single basketball fan on the planet who does not admire the brilliant, imaginative, skillful play of the Spanish team on the court.

thats true, but its simply not enough for spaniards. at some reason it has to go in same package with flopping, arrogance, conflicts with opposing players, mugging referees and dirty play overall... not always, but very oftenly.
maybe its just a scariolo's influence. 3 years on the bench... its gonna affect a next generation. it will take decades for spanish NT to become something sociological acceptable :p

@raze lupin - i dont hate anyone. not even croats. animosity towards US team exists, mostly because american colloquial disrespect to any non US objects. when you beat US NT, american public simply dont give a shit about that. they see it as some mickey mouse competition, played by god knows who...
englanders had same attitude with football till the end of the '50s






about grannies and their cheering... maybe i'm too touchy with that issue. it did reminded me a bit on croat audience back in 1997, when croat grannies screamed '' hang all serbs''... maybe im overextending but this agressive behaviuor is inappropriate. except in monty python sketches :p

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 01:09 PM
about grannies and their cheering... maybe i'm too touchy with that issue. it did reminded me a bit on croat audience back in 1997, when croat grannies screamed '' hang all serbs''... maybe im overextending but this agressive behaviuor is inappropriate. except in monty python sketches :p

does anyone have any footage of the screaming grannies? I missed the game. Although on second thought, screaming Spanish grannies my haunt my nightmares. :eek:

CHBB
09-05-2014, 01:21 PM
thats true, but its simply not enough for spaniards. at some reason it has to go in same package with flopping, arrogance, conflicts with opposing players, mugging referees and dirty play overall... not always, but very oftenly.
maybe its just a scariolo's influence. 3 years on the bench... its gonna affect a next generation. it will take decades for spanish NT to become something sociological acceptable :p

@raze lupin - i dont hate anyone. not even croats. animosity towards US team exists, mostly because american colloquial disrespect to any non US objects. when you beat US NT, american public simply dont give a shit about that. they see it as some mickey mouse competition, played by god knows who...
englanders had same attitude with football till the end of the '50s






about grannies and their cheering... maybe i'm too touchy with that issue. it did reminded me a bit on croat audience back in 1997, when croat grannies screamed '' hang all serbs''... maybe im overextending but this agressive behaviuor is inappropriate. except in monty python sketches :p I like the way Spain has played in this tournament, minus the flopping, dirty play, and mugging referees. They have dominated the teams that are inferior to them and they're the only non US team who has such a killer instinct that when they're ahead they put on a show by throwing alley oops and things like that. I like the arrogance because unlike with the US it comes from playing solid basketball and going right at their opponents with crazy efficient offense and pestering defense. I have always hated players who argue calls even when they're obvious calls and always feel the need to "talk" to the refs though. Basketball is a man's game, not a boy's game where you argue calls all day long and try to talk to the ref as if you're teaching him how to call the game just because you can't stand being wrong. Let the coaches do that, but not the players.

And I absolutely despise US "fans" like the ones you describe. They're not real basketball fans, just casual fans. How can one call oneself a true basketball fan if one doesn't respect the legitimate competition and players around the world? Especially Spain, who with Ibaka added and Llull coming into his own are just that much better. Our big men might be able to dominate many of the big men of the other countries but no other team has three legitimate big men the way Spain does.

LjutiKrilo
09-05-2014, 01:21 PM
@christodoulou76

7165

miloje
09-05-2014, 01:26 PM
how many tie matches spain won last ten years? so if things wont go they way they will choke, not very optimistic about their chances for gold :P

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 02:45 PM
how many tie matches spain won last ten years? so if things wont go they way they will choke, not very optimistic about their chances for gold :P

Lots. Discounting last year's B team, just in 2012 they won three close games: against UK in the first round, against France in quarterfinals and against Russia in semis. Even in the golden days of 2006 WC they had a thriller against Argentina that wasn't decided until the last shot.

fasoulaki
09-05-2014, 02:56 PM
Even in the golden days of 2006 WC they had a thriller against Argentina that wasn't decided until the last shot.

This game was really a delicacy!

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 03:22 PM
By the way, I've read several posters repeating the expression "mugging the referees". Just to be precise, that doesn't mean what you think it does. Mugging is a form of robbery where you use force to take something away from the victim. Something coaches and players never do, at least with the cameras on :p. Better say "(verbally) harassing the referees" (that's what Djordevic did to be awarded the first technical).

Milos.Djuric
09-05-2014, 03:40 PM
By the way, I've read several posters repeating the expression "mugging the referees". Just to be precise, that doesn't mean what you think it does. Mugging is a form of robbery where you use force to take something away from the victim. Something coaches and players never do, at least with the cameras on :p. Better say "(verbally) harassing the referees" (that's what Djordevic did to be awarded the first technical).

But he didn't mug them!

(and you could have just changed one letter m to b)

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 03:43 PM
But he didn't mug them!

Bingo. He did harass them. A slightly slang equivalent for this expression is jawing. Mug is a completely different thing and I don't know why anyone would use it in this context.

CHBB
09-05-2014, 03:56 PM
Bingo. He did harass them. A slightly slang equivalent for this expression is jawing. Mug is a completely different thing and I don't know why anyone would use it in this context. Jawing is different. It means simply talking back and/or running your mouth. Mugging when used as a figure of speech means to basically physically try to get the ref's attention or maybe even physically enclose on the ref and to basically try to tell him how to do his job and educate him. It's worse than jawing because it's players trying to take over how the game is called and tilt it in their favor simply by not being able to accept being in the wrong.

It's endemic in the NBA and I hope it doesn't become endemic in international play as well. It's absolutely appalling to me the way this is accepted in the NBA, even by commentators, like "so and so is going to have a word with the referee here" or "so and so is going to just talk to the referee here", often when that player is completely in the wrong, as if the player is in a ref conference or something.

Refs should be questioned but it should be done by expressions or arguing rather than a player acting like he's a ref telling another ref how to do his job or like he's in a ref conference. Coaches are the only ones who should be able to "mug" referees that way, because they're speaking on behalf of their players.

fasoulaki
09-05-2014, 04:06 PM
Wow this thread develops to a study of English philology. I did not know that we have so much proficiency in Anglistics in this forum. :D

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 05:25 PM
Coaches are the only ones who should be able to "mug" referees that way, because they're speaking on behalf of their players.

I'd be much more strict. Not even coaches should be allowed to shout at referees. Speak, yes. Trying to reason, as often as possible. Shouting, never. Putting a foot into the court, technical. Fortunately we don't see that many instances of physical harassing (mugging), but those should award an automatic suspension.

Gaff
09-05-2014, 05:41 PM
Wooohooo.... serbs and greeks talking of sportivity, refs respect and other forms of "be a gentleman" in a game. :rolleyes:

When you forget your own history, the arguments turn excuses. The Yugo's of the eighties, with Kikanovic chasing Meneghin with a few scissors in the hand for example, brawls in the field, brawls in the crowd, games suspended by dangerous disturbances .... but hey, this spanish guys are really dirty (and very pussies, only blame on the refs and rivals, not launch a chair to Djordjevic head like Kristic to Bouroussis... LOL)
.
The same thing with the Greeks, fast to forget what was to play in this country years ago, which it was managing to see, launch of chairs, coins, razors, stones... But hey, this spanish guys are really dirty (and very pussies, the crowd only scream, not launch razors and the other team no need run to escape of the arena), yes.

Cool :cool:

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 05:44 PM
Wooohooo.... serbs and greeks talking of sportivity, refs respect and other forms of "be a gentleman" in a game. :rolleyes:

When you forget your own history, the arguments turn excuses. The Yugo's of the eighties, with Kikanovic chasing Meneghin with a few scissors in the hand for example, brawls in the field, brawls in the crowd, games suspended by dangerous disturbances .... but hey, this spanish guys are really dirty (and very pussies, only blame on the refs and rivals, not launch a chair to Djordjevic head like Kristic to Bouroussis... LOL)
.
The same thing with the Greeks, fast to forget what was to play in this country years ago, which it was managing to see, launch of chairs, coins, razors, stones... But hey, this spanish guys are really dirty (and very pussies, the crowd only scream, not launch razors and the other team no need run to escape of the arena), yes.

Cool :cool:

Well, you're right. I would prefer a screaming granny to a coin in the head. :D

CHBB
09-05-2014, 05:48 PM
Wow this thread develops to a study of English philology. I did not know that we have so much proficiency in Anglistics in this forum. :D I should have been more clear about the fact that this is what I understand mugging the ref to be, not necessarily that it's what the other poster meant or that it's the accepted definition. It's just the term I would use for it.

CHBB
09-05-2014, 05:52 PM
I'd be much more strict. Not even coaches should be allowed to shout at referees. Speak, yes. Trying to reason, as often as possible. Shouting, never. Putting a foot into the court, technical. Fortunately we don't see that many instances of physical harassing (mugging), but those should award an automatic suspension. When I say mugging, I don't mean shouting. It can be done in an overtly disrespectful, loud way, but most often it is done calmly with only subtle disrespect. When Marc Gasol walked right up to the ref and put his index finger up in his face and talked down to him, that is what I'm referring to as mugging, or when the second a call a player doesn't like is made the player goes and walks right up to the ref and speaks to him as if he's in a ref conference trying to state his case to the other ref like you see when two refs disagree on a call.

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 06:30 PM
King of the Bongos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SjxJcqHIWo

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 07:17 PM
When I say mugging, I don't mean shouting. It can be done in an overtly disrespectful, loud way, but most often it is done calmly with only subtle disrespect. When Marc Gasol walked right up to the ref and put his index finger up in his face and talked down to him, that is what I'm referring to as mugging, or when the second a call a player doesn't like is made the player goes and walks right up to the ref and speaks to him as if he's in a ref conference trying to state his case to the other ref like you see when two refs disagree on a call.

If you say mugging, for me it implies physical violence. What you mean is more like lecturing: telling the referees how to do their work. Also, in english and spanish there's the expression working the refs, which is what most players and coaches do by chatting with them after a call is whistled or when the game is paused. And that's quite acceptable in my book. It can even work against the player, as experienced referees dislike being worked over all the time and can influence them in a bad way.

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 07:25 PM
King of the Bongos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SjxJcqHIWo

I don't even need the title to know the video was edited by a Serbian. He mixed unconnected plays and reactions. For example, when Marc kicks the ball, the referees called it right and there was no fuss about it. And the slow motion in Rubio's out of bounds is quite helpful: Markovic knees his left leg, so there's contact and maybe a foul.

CHBB
09-05-2014, 07:27 PM
If you say mugging, for me it implies physical violence. What you mean is more like lecturing: telling the referees how to do their work. Also, in english and spanish there's the expression working the refs, which is what most players and coaches do by chatting with them after a call is whistled or when the game is paused. And that's quite acceptable in my book. It can even work against the player, as experienced referees dislike being worked over all the time and can influence them in a bad way. Yes, working the refs is what I'm referring to. I thought that was only a US/NBA term so I didn't use it. Mugging sometimes can be used to imply pestering and constantly trying to draw the attention of somebody or something. That's how I was using it, and I was really only using it because the other poster did.

Personally I don't think it's acceptable. I don't think the players should have any influence on the game that way and should only influence it through their play. I don't like that in the NBA for example, players with better "relationships" with the refs will get the calls or players who are bigger names. To me, you make the right call no matter who it is against. It's this ridiculous influence that is the reason we have instant replay to an extreme in the NBA, because refs aren't depended upon or even asked to do their job the way they did for decades before it. I would prefer it be more like MLB where coaches can argue within reason but players can not argue and can only ask for clarification, and can not overdue that either.

I've also been in plenty of pickup games where players spent more time arguing over calls than actually playing the game, and that's not an exaggeration.

miloje
09-05-2014, 07:55 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2459172/Spanish-basketball-team-pretended-disabled-win-Paralympic-gold-guilty-fraud.html

:eek:

CHBB
09-05-2014, 08:05 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2459172/Spanish-basketball-team-pretended-disabled-win-Paralympic-gold-guilty-fraud.html

:eek: That's really despicable. I've known people who compete in the Special Olympics though not the Paralympics, and they work hard and deserve to feel like winners, not cheaters like them.

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 09:12 PM
King of the Bongos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SjxJcqHIWo

I don't know what is worse, the typical silly video that the Greeks and Serbs use to post each time they lose to Spain to justify how they got robbed, sacked and looted or the racist comments that you can see when you watch it in youtube.

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 09:52 PM
I don't know what is worse, the typical silly video that the Greeks and Serbs use to post each time they lose to Spain to justify how they got robbed, sacked and looted or the racist comments that you can see when you watch it in youtube.

Thank you for pointing me there. They're hilarious! Between their broken english and their lack of wits it's like a clown parade. Best one so far it's the guy who says he was happy to see Nederland beat Spain by 6-0, but didn't watch the game with enough interest to even remember the score. Another one claiming Batum hit Rudy in the groin (it was Navarro, as everyone knows here) was also particularly uninformed.

But I don't think it has anything to do with Spain. I bet you can find those kind of videos after a Serbian loss against any opponent. Of course, you won't find a compilation of 2002's final between Argentina and Yugoslavia, even after the main referee Nikos Pitsilkas, accepted publicly that he made crucial mistakes in the final minutes of the match. Boris Stankovic was on charge and Serbian basketball was respected everywhere. I wonder how that respect was lost in the last decade.

miloje
09-05-2014, 10:06 PM
wau they read youtube comments and generalize about whole nations. nice job guys :)

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 10:14 PM
But I don't think it has anything to do with Spain. I bet you can find those kind of videos after a Serbian loss against any opponent. Of course, you won't find a compilation of 2002's final between Argentina and Yugoslavia, even after the main referee Nikos Pitsilkas, accepted publicly that he made crucial mistakes in the final minutes of the match. Boris Stankovic was on charge and Serbian basketball was respected everywhere. I wonder how that respect was lost in the last decade.

That final is impossible to forget, but unfortunately wasn't the only rare thing under Stankovic's reign of terror. In fact, there is a legend that says that when you say Boris Stankovic three times, an innocent kid misses a free throw. ;)

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 10:16 PM
wau they read youtube comments and generalize about whole nations. nice job guys :)

Ouch, i never generalize about nations, just about the sore losers that whine every time they lose.

miloje
09-05-2014, 10:25 PM
well you just imply that srj won their medals by cheating which makes yous sore loser too. explain, which are won by cheating and which with honest work :confused: also there is no youtube video without milion imbecils writin bullshits

c-myers
09-05-2014, 10:26 PM
Yes many people are jealous and haters, They hate Spain because Spain is strong. USA has the same problem everyone most hates the USA. Spain wins now they hate Spain

Argentina's golden generation were so strong as well maybe stronger than Spania but no one wasn't talk shitty stuffs. Simply this spanish team antipathetic.

Darknemo2000
09-05-2014, 10:30 PM
Thank you for pointing me there. They're hilarious! Between their broken english and their lack of wits it's like a clown parade. Best one so far it's the guy who says he was happy to see Nederland beat Spain by 6-0, but didn't watch the game with enough interest to even remember the score. Another one claiming Batum hit Rudy in the groin (it was Navarro, as everyone knows here) was also particularly uninformed.

But I don't think it has anything to do with Spain. I bet you can find those kind of videos after a Serbian loss against any opponent. Of course, you won't find a compilation of 2002's final between Argentina and Yugoslavia, even after the main referee Nikos Pitsilkas, accepted publicly that he made crucial mistakes in the final minutes of the match. Boris Stankovic was on charge and Serbian basketball was respected everywhere. I wonder how that respect was lost in the last decade.

Part of that hatred goes because spain is stronger and it makes it better knowing that refs help them out just like refs dont try on catching every traveling violation against usa. Even if its bloody obvious that USA or spain would win in any case.

But you cant blame it on just being better. Noone hated golden Argentina despite their dominance or DreamTeam.

Another part goes to Rudy. He brought the perception that spaniards are floppers, actors, cheats and so on. If there were flopping before, Rudy brought it on the whole different level. Which is bit unfair as Spain has many classy guys but everyone perception is affected by the perception of Rudy and Rudy is a an asshole despite being a great basketball player and even better actor.

LjutiKrilo
09-05-2014, 10:40 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2459172/Spanish-basketball-team-pretended-disabled-win-Paralympic-gold-guilty-fraud.html

:eek:


eric cartman style :cool:


@gaff - its kićanović.. kikanović elmedin was too young to chase even andrea meneghin, dino's son


@darrell - dont read youtube comments. mature people never scroll down. i'm ashamed with comments like this, but thats just frustrated kids.


@HeinrichMohr - when bora stanković was in ˝power˝, FIBA was working properly, today Fiba is a joke. ok last second foul was not called in 2002, and we had OT to solve gold medal question. find any bball referee and ask him: will you blow your whistle in that kind of situation?

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 10:49 PM
Argentina's golden generation were so strong as well maybe stronger than Spania but no one wasn't talk shitty stuffs. Simply this spanish team antipathetic.

You may know little about Argentina's golden generation. I have watched (and admired) them since 2002. Many of them have grown in the spanish league (Scola, Nocioni, Prigioni). I can understand what they say on the court. And I can tell you they are ultimate competitors, willing to do anything to get the win, not above the occasional dirty play, and as adept at trash-talking as any other strong-willed team to ever play the game. Nocioni has a well deserved reputation for being hot tempered and hacking with just too much enthusiasm. Scola has become a master of dirty tactics capable of getting on the nerves of almost anyone. A simple search at Youtube will show you many instances of argentineans protesting calls, flopping, starting fights, and whatnot.

Ask any brazilian fan about Argentina. They'll tell you much more about "shitty stuff" than I can do.

miloje
09-05-2014, 10:52 PM
darrell explains how deceived we all are by loving arg golden generation

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 10:59 PM
... knowing that refs help them out ...

And why are all the referees helping Spain, if I may ask? Are we giving them money? Then I want it back, because they're not fulfilling their part. 2007's gold could have been ours with just a single whistle blown. Also, 2013 semis were a coin flip. Just one more free throw and we'd be golden. 2010 quarterfinals defeat was also a downer. Were we late with our payment? Was FIBA way of asking for a raise?

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 10:59 PM
well you just imply that srj won their medals by cheating which makes yous sore loser too. explain, which are won by cheating and which with honest work :confused: also there is no youtube video without milion imbecils writin bullshits

I wasn't talking about all medals, just about some specific situation that is publicly notorious and that was extremely important because decided a title. Not like an unimportant game that was already solved and some people dedided to start a drama about it... and i'm not only pointing at youtube.


Argentina's golden generation were so strong as well maybe stronger than Spania but no one wasn't talk shitty stuffs. Simply this spanish team antipathetic.

Not shitty stuff about Argentina.... maybe because THEY were the ones that got stolen.

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 11:03 PM
darrell explains how deceived we all are by loving arg golden generation

Deceived? I love them too! My favourite game of all times was that Argentina - USA in Indianapolis, even if I had to get out of bed really early to be able to watch it. Just saying, those same traits that put off some people when considering Spain's NT, Argentina has them too.

miloje
09-05-2014, 11:05 PM
darrell explains how deceived we all are by not loving esp golden generation

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 11:17 PM
By the way, antipathetic does not mean what you think it does. It means "averse" or "contrary to". You could say Joan is antipathetic to traveling alone, if you wanted to sound like a snotty pedant when you want to say Joan doesn't like to travel on her own. I suppose you really want to say Spain's attitude causes people to dislike them. Depending on the strength of your feelings, you could say Spain is unsavoury, unlikable, or hateful.

Darrell Armstrong
09-05-2014, 11:18 PM
darrell explains how deceived we all are by not loving esp golden generation

Deceived? Why would you need to love them? Like they cared.

HeinrichMohr
09-05-2014, 11:25 PM
Another part goes to Rudy. He brought the perception that spaniards are floppers, actors, cheats and so on. If there were flopping before, Rudy brought it on the whole different level. Which is bit unfair as Spain has many classy guys but everyone perception is affected by the perception of Rudy and Rudy is a an asshole despite being a great basketball player and even better actor.


Rudy Fernández...



7169

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 11:33 PM
By the way, antipathetic does not mean what you think it does. It means "averse" or "contrary to". You could say Joan is antipathetic to traveling alone, if you wanted to sound like a snotty pedant when you want to say Joan doesn't like to travel on her own. I suppose you really want to say Spain's attitude causes people to dislike them. Depending on the strength of your feelings, you could say Spain is unsavoury, unlikable, or hateful.

I agree that antipathetic is the wrong term. It is defined as having antipathy toward something rather than inviting antipathy from others. I want to add to your list of alternatives the terms despicable, detestable, loathsome. Anyway, I think most people admire ESP for their wonderful play on the court and do not hate them as much as are annoyed by some of their antics.

panteluke
09-06-2014, 04:34 PM
I don't even need the title to know the video was edited by a Serbian. He mixed unconnected plays and reactions. For example, when Marc kicks the ball, the referees called it right and there was no fuss about it. And the slow motion in Rubio's out of bounds is quite helpful: Markovic knees his left leg, so there's contact and maybe a foul.

Rubio's case is maybe a foul?? Are you kidding?? If not, then just lol..

Darrell Armstrong
09-06-2014, 05:06 PM
Rubio's case is maybe a foul?? Are you kidding?? If not, then just lol..

Why should I be kidding? Markovic places himself in front of Rubio, an his knee hits Rubio's left leg. There's contact, and a foul could be called on the defender. Would I have called it? No, I don't see it clearly enough to blow the whistle. Maybe from another angle it would be different.

panteluke
09-06-2014, 05:27 PM
Why should I be kidding? Markovic places himself in front of Rubio, an his knee hits Rubio's left leg. There's contact, and a foul could be called on the defender. Would I have called it? No, I don't see it clearly enough to blow the whistle. Maybe from another angle it would be different.

Well, I 'm sorry, but I think you are clearly biased. If this is a foul, then in every basketball game, all 24 players would be fouled out in around 2-3 minutes.

Darrell Armstrong
09-06-2014, 06:01 PM
Well, I 'm sorry, but I think you are clearly biased. If this is a foul, then in every basketball game, all 24 players would be fouled out in around 2-3 minutes.

Biased? Switch the players and I would say exactly the same. Please note the difference between "it's a foul" and "it could be called as a foul". What I know for certain is that sometimes when the ball goes out of bounds after a possible foul, instead of calling it, they give the ball to the fouled player.

Darrell Armstrong
09-06-2014, 06:20 PM
eric cartman style :cool:

@HeinrichMohr - when bora stanković was in ˝power˝, FIBA was working properly, today Fiba is a joke. ok last second foul was not called in 2002, and we had OT to solve gold medal question. find any bball referee and ask him: will you blow your whistle in that kind of situation?

Let me see if I understand: when serbs where in charge, everyone was treated fairly, even though there's evidence on the contrary. But now FIBA is a mafia, even though the only proof comes from serbians claiming their team is being cheated. Interesting. Tell me more.

ThePeraCar
09-06-2014, 06:29 PM
Soon when Bodiroga becomes president of Fiba europe FIBA will be once again rightfully hand of Justice!!!

panteluke
09-06-2014, 06:35 PM
Biased? Switch the players and I would say exactly the same. Please note the difference between "it's a foul" and "it could be called as a foul". What I know for certain is that sometimes when the ball goes out of bounds after a possible foul, instead of calling it, they give the ball to the fouled player.

We just have to agree that we disagree.