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View Full Version : Group A, Day 6: Iran vs. France



Buran
09-04-2014, 02:47 AM
Can a resilient, yet much lower ranked Iran pull off the biggest upset of their history over the talented French team and advance to the next round?

manu_bol
09-04-2014, 02:52 AM
i think iran can do it.

france is vulnerable. they don't have parker or de colo.

if the smaller pinoys can lead france for 3 qters, how much more for a more discplined team like iran?

CKR13
09-04-2014, 02:52 AM
Will be rooting for Iran to win this.

Buran
09-04-2014, 02:58 AM
I guess Iran's chances of advancing will be extremely low even if we win, since Serbia will most likely lose to Spain and goal average among tied teams/group games will decide the team that qualifies to the next round, and Iran won't fare favorably in those categories against the other two.
Even if their chances of advancing are close to none, they should fight for a win and bow out in style.
Go Team Melli!

sinobball
09-04-2014, 03:05 AM
I guess Iran's chances of advancing will be extremely low even if we win, since Serbia will most likely lose to Spain and goal average among tied teams/group games will decide the team that qualifies to the next round, and Iran won't fare favorably in those categories against the other two.
Even if their chances of advancing are close to none, they should fight for a win and bow out in style.
Go Team Melli!
1. If Serbia beats Spain, Iran only needs to beat France to advance
2. If Serbia loses to Spain, Iran needs to beat France by 7pts to advance if I'm not mistaken.

mohsena2631
09-04-2014, 03:10 AM
Can a resilient, yet much lower ranked Iran pull off the biggest upset of their history over the talented French team and advance to the next round?

No they can't but I hope at least they try. this is their last game here, nothing to lose.

durden_tyler
09-04-2014, 03:12 AM
France is vulnerable so Iran has a chance. But we wouldn't want our Asian rivals to feel good about themselves with the Asian Games near, so yeah, GO FRANCE :D

Buran
09-04-2014, 03:13 AM
1. If Serbia beats Spain, Iran only needs to beat France to advance
2. If Serbia loses to Spain, Iran needs to beat France by 7pts to advance if I'm not mistaken.

If that's the case,7 pts is not that bad actually. how did you come up with that number sinobball? Apparently "Goal average on games among tied teams" is what matters.
France won Serbia by +1, Iran Lost to Serbia by -13. So I guess Iran has to win France by more than +12 to have a chance? is that right?

Buran
09-04-2014, 03:16 AM
No they can't but I hope at least they try. this is their last game here, nothing to lose.

I think if we win by >+12 we will advance,assuming Serbia loses. "shayad nekbat 13 garyban farancaro gereft mohsen!:)" (translation: 13pts might bring bad luck for France)

Buran
09-04-2014, 03:17 AM
France is vulnerable so Iran has a chance. But we wouldn't want our Asian rivals to feel good about themselves with the Asian Games near, so yeah, GO FRANCE :D

hahaha, good one, true to some extent. Good luck against Senegal man!

sinobball
09-04-2014, 03:27 AM
If that's the case,7 pts is not that bad actually. how did you come up with that number sinobball? Apparently "Goal average on games among tied teams" is what matters.
France won Serbia by +1, Iran Lost to Serbia by -13. So I guess Iran has to win France by more than +12 to have a chance? is that right?
No, doesn't need to be +12, since you have to consider both teams. 1-(-13)=14, 14/2=7
FIBA's tie breaker is based on ratio rather than +/- I believe, but it should be a reasonably close approximation. 7 or 8 points.

Edit: pretty sure 7 points is enough, doesn't even need to be 8. If Iran wins by 7, then Iran is -6, France also -6. But France scored 74 against Serbia, Iran 70, since 74/80<77/83 Iran has the edge.

reamily
09-04-2014, 03:50 AM
From what I observe with Iran, when they play hard they get injured. (From Samad, to Veisi, to Davoudi). Due to there physique maybe .. So they can play hard with this game but Asian Games is the only jewel that they didn't have...

But history says Lebanese did it, our team almost done it..Iran a far from finish product team beat Serbia in 2008..so possible..

durden_tyler
09-04-2014, 04:03 AM
hahaha, good one, true to some extent. Good luck against Senegal man!

Thanks, we need luck now :D

reamily
09-04-2014, 04:21 AM
I have a feeling that Iran might win it but not enough to enter 2nd round..

sinobball
09-04-2014, 04:18 PM
Iran up 23-13, maybe they could actually pull it off?

Edit: Nightmarish 2nd quarter for Iran. Too many amateurish mistakes killing them, like Haddadi putting the ball on the floor around midcourt. That said, it's still a ballgame but gotta reduce the turnovers.

KORADZ
09-04-2014, 05:10 PM
LINK LIVE
Basketball World Cup - Iran Vs France
http://www.koradz11.com/2014/08/9-ch.html

KORADZ
09-04-2014, 05:12 PM
44 ira 55 fra

mohsena2631
09-04-2014, 05:49 PM
typical Iran in this tournament, we are good as long as our starters are not tired.

but we almost had a come back in 4th quarter because of Spanish fans. damn why they didn't support us like that from the start. LOL it was like playing at home in front of 5000 die hard fans LOL

0 minutes for Kazemi ! very interesting

thank you guys. they tried their best but it wasn't just enough.

Khalid80
09-04-2014, 06:03 PM
Iran fought hard but unfortunately it wasn't enough for them to win... At least they can leave the WC with their heads high

Rostam
09-04-2014, 06:07 PM
Not a disastrous ending for Iran but still not enough. Like Mohsen alluded to, conditioning seems to be an issue for this team. Seems to be the pitfall of Iranian sports in general. Volleyball team ran out of gas today too. They can't sustain their level and always come out flat at the start of 3rd quarter.

Darknemo2000
09-04-2014, 06:47 PM
Respect for Iran. They are certainly not an Egypt and as was said - can leave the tournament with their heads held high. They and philipines show that you should never underestimate opponents.

CHBB
09-04-2014, 06:55 PM
France should've dominated Iran. Respect to Iran, they have a solid future if they can develop young players other than Kazemi, but France is in trouble in the second round if they keep this up.

FrankieJB
09-04-2014, 07:12 PM
France should've dominated Iran. Respect to Iran, they have a solid future if they can develop young players other than Kazemi, but France is in trouble in the second round if they keep this up.

France dominated them the bigger part of the game, don't be deceived by their last push, from +20 to +5 in the final 5 minutes, when garbage players entered for France. Btw, I don't understand why people seem to treat Iran like "just another retard Muslim country". Iran is a respectably developed country and this basketball team is not made of lame ducks. It's more or less equivalent to Angola, a tad below because not as athletic, but definitely a disciplined troublemaker. I didn't expect less from them in this tournament and I'll say that if they hadn't been drawn in this group they could have reached the KO stage, as NZ or Dominican Republic did for example. Kamrani is a heck of a playmaker - he's the Iranian Marcelinho Huertas! - and Haddadi one of the most dominating centers in the competition...

Buran
09-04-2014, 07:13 PM
proud of Team Melli and all the players! They didn't advance, which is disheartening, but it was extremely hard taking a spot away from those top 4 teams that did advance, yet we were so close to doing so. They would have had a much better chance of advancing, had they been in any other group.
All the foreign commentators and pundits have also been full of praise for our team despite the losses.
This team has been constantly and consistently improving throughout the years and that's what matters.
Looking forward to seeing them shine in the Rio Olympics in 2016!

Buran
09-04-2014, 07:20 PM
0 minutes for Kazemi ! very interesting


The only players that didn't play in this game were the injured Mashayekhi and Kazemi!
I feel like more than anything else, this had something to do with disciplinary issues . We don't know what has been going on behind the scene.

CHBB
09-04-2014, 07:32 PM
France dominated them the bigger part of the game, don't be deceived by their last push, from +20 to +5 in the final 5 minutes, when garbage players entered for France. Btw, I don't understand why people seem to treat Iran like "just another retard Muslim country". Iran is a respectably developed country and this basketball team is not made of lame ducks. It's more or less equivalent to Angola, a tad below because not as athletic, but definitely a disciplined troublemaker. I didn't expect less from them in this tournament and I'll say that if they hadn't been drawn in this group they could have reached the KO stage, as NZ or Dominican Republic did for example. Kamrani is a heck of a playmaker - he's the Iranian Marcelinho Huertas! - and Haddadi one of the most dominating centers in the competition... I don't think Iran is like Angola. I think Iran is just moreso a team for the future rather than right now in 2014. They should be improved by 2016 for sure. They just need to develop their young players, but given how the Iranian Superleague is now following in the Turkish League's footsteps and how large of a country Iran is, I would say they should definitely be able to continue to improve as both a basketball country and as a national team.

My beef with France is they don't dominate when they have a chance to and they don't rise to the occasion against tougher competition, the two things not being mutually exclusive. They may have looked dominant at times in this game but the players who they need to step up had horrible games statistically compared to what they can do. I'm not a fan of stats as they don't tell anything about the game, the team, or the player but in France's case the statistics fit perfectly with my own observations. There is nobody on France who steps up when they need it. In the beginning it was Batum and Diaw with Edwin Jackson providing a spark but now I don't see anybody doing it. Batum should be dropping 20 easily and Gobert and Louvergne should be cleaning the glass and getting blocks while scoring 20-30 points combined if not more, but you don't see that. Terrorizer and I have both called France a European Brazil/Dominica but at the end of the day Brazil has put a whooping on teams they were superior to and while France has done that once with Egypt, I've yet to see a killer instinct from them otherwise.

usagre
09-04-2014, 07:35 PM
I don't think Iran is like Angola. I think Iran is just moreso a team for the future rather than right now in 2014. They should be improved by 2016 for sure. They just need to develop their young players, but given how the Iranian Superleague is now following in the Turkish League's footsteps and how large of a country Iran is, I would say they should definitely be able to continue to improve as both a basketball country and as a national team.

My beef with France is they don't dominate when they have a chance to and they don't rise to the occasion against tougher competition, the two things not being mutually exclusive. They may have looked dominant at times in this game but the players who they need to step up had horrible games statistically compared to what they can do. I'm not a fan of stats as they don't tell anything about the game, the team, or the player but in France's case the statistics fit perfectly with my own observations. There is nobody on France who steps up when they need it. In the beginning it was Batum and Diaw with Edwin Jackson providing a spark but now I don't see anybody doing it. Batum should be dropping 20 easily and Gobert and Louvergne should be cleaning the glass and getting blocks while scoring 20-30 points combined if not more, but you don't see that. Terrorizer and I have both called France a European Brazil/Dominica but at the end of the day Brazil has put a whooping on teams they were superior to and while France has done that once with Egypt, I've yet to see a killer instinct from them otherwise.

that's very open minded and fair of you to use stats when they "fit perfectly with your observations" and discard them as useless when they don't.
dude give us a break.

CHBB
09-04-2014, 07:50 PM
that's very open minded and fair of you to use stats when they "fit perfectly with your observations" and discard them as useless when they don't.
dude give us a break. First of all, there's no "us". There's just you, so be a man and stand on your own two.

Second, stats don't tell the whole story as has been pointed out to you by more than just me. What matters is taking stats in context, and in France's case the stats match the way the team has played. Spain's best players dominate, as do the best players of the top teams in the World Cup. Not only is this shown in the games but it's shown in the stats. France on the other hand has had their players do the opposite. Against the best teams, you need players you can count on when everything else is going wrong and France has yet to show that it has them. You can see it even just in the facial expressions of teams like Spain, Argentina, and at times a few others and then looking at the facial expressions of France. Spain's players look determined and serious, especially when the chips are down, and their play reflects that. France on the other hand always pretty much looks the same, just like Brazil and the Dominican Republic tend to.

You on the other hand try to use stats to determine things like "talent", skill, and ability, which is ridiculous.

usagre
09-04-2014, 07:53 PM
First of all, there's no "us". There's just you, so be a man and stand on your own two.

Second, stats don't tell the whole story as has been pointed out to you by more than just me. What matters is taking stats in context, and in France's case the stats match the way the team has played. Spain's best players dominate, as do the best players of the top teams in the World Cup. Not only is this shown in the games but it's shown in the stats. France on the other hand has had their players do the opposite. Against the best teams, you need players you can count on when everything else is going wrong and France has yet to show that it has them. You can see it even just in the facial expressions of teams like Spain, Argentina, and at times a few others and then looking at the facial expressions of France. Spain's players look determined and serious, especially when the chips are down, and their play reflects that. France on the other hand always pretty much looks the same, just like Brazil and the Dominican Republic tend to.

You on the other hand try to use stats to determine things like "talent", skill, and ability, which is ridiculous.

you are right it is just me. it seems like i am the only one who thinks the usa is gonna win this thing. and you have made it clear that stats don't tell the whole story. they tell only the part of the story that suits you.

CHBB
09-04-2014, 08:02 PM
you are right it is just me. it seems like i am the only one who thinks the usa is gonna win this thing. and you have made it clear that stats don't tell the whole story. they tell only the part of the story that suits you. Sorry but stats are nothing more than numbers, whether you like it or not. When taken it context, they can be useful, but the fact is that there are far too many variables that affect the stats for them to be able to stand on their own. In France's case, the variables are now constants, that France's most important players don't step up when their team needs it most and that nobody actually dominates for France. They are given all the chances in the world to do it and they don't. Their best players have been inconsistent to the point where it's become the norm for them. You're the one who only uses the part of the story that suits you, not me.

And most of us think the US will win. We just have no problem pointing out the flaws in our team as any good fan and any objective basketball observer would.

usagre
09-04-2014, 08:04 PM
Sorry but stats are nothing more than numbers, whether you like it or not. When taken it context, they can be useful, but the fact is that there are far too many variables that affect the stats for them to be able to stand on their own. In France's case, the variables are now constants, that France's most important players don't step up when their team needs it most and that nobody actually dominates for France. They are given all the chances in the world to do it and they don't. Their best players have been inconsistent to the point where it's become the norm for them. You're the one who only uses the part of the story that suits you, not me.

And most of us think the US will win. We just have no problem pointing out the flaws in our team as any good fan and any objective basketball observer would.

they stepped up in a pretty big game last year.

mohsena2631
09-04-2014, 10:32 PM
The only players that didn't play in this game were the injured Mashayekhi and Kazemi!
I feel like more than anything else, this had something to do with disciplinary issues . We don't know what has been going on behind the scene.

yes I think it's very obvious, nobody with a brain benches Kazemi for Zangeneh ! Arsalan had a good game against Serbia but Becirovic dropped him to the bench right after that !

what a pity, he was a key player 4 years ago when he was just 19, look where is he now ! they said they will announce the Asian Games squad on Saturday, I wonder if Memi even picks Arsalan for Incheon !

Khalid80
09-04-2014, 10:47 PM
yes I think it's very obvious, nobody with a brain benches Kazemi for Zangeneh ! Arsalan had a good game against Serbia but Becirovic dropped him to the bench right after that !

what a pity, he was a key player 4 years ago when he was just 19, look where is he now ! they said they will announce the Asian Games squad on Saturday, I wonder if Memi even picks Arsalan for Incheon !

This is very bad for Kazemi who is still hoping that he will get called back by the 76ers and head back to the NBA... but clashing with the coach or doing something that shouldn't have been done from his side is very bad and shows a lack of maturity and no professionalism... I hope Kazemi is given another chance because he is a very good player for Iran and can definitely help the Iranian NT

reamily
09-04-2014, 11:06 PM
yes I think it's very obvious, nobody with a brain benches Kazemi for Zangeneh ! Arsalan had a good game against Serbia but Becirovic dropped him to the bench right after that !

what a pity, he was a key player 4 years ago when he was just 19, look where is he now ! they said they will announce the Asian Games squad on Saturday, I wonder if Memi even picks Arsalan for Incheon !

He can't hoot long jumpers to save his life.Although he did a good job in backing up Haddadi there..Oishin is too good of asystem player to be disregarded..

mohsena2631
09-04-2014, 11:21 PM
He can't hoot long jumpers to save his life.Although he did a good job in backing up Haddadi there..Oishin is too good of asystem player to be disregarded..

Oshin is my favorite player, I'm talking about his backup, Zangeneh ! Zangeneh wasn't even supposed to be there but he played valuable minutes while Kazemi was on the bench the whole game !

I think we will find the truth when they come back home, there are more mysteries about this team, mostly in Nasajpour's case. having only one point guard really hurt us here. I say maybe 10pts or more in each game. now our federation claims they paid the money for him (via H. Khajirian) and FIBA cleared him to play for Iran (they even published a document about it) I still can't believe Memi dropped him just because of technical reasons ! he was a regular player during the friendlies while Zangeneh wasn't usually in 12-man squad. and if Becirovic didn't want him, why the hell they even paid money ?

CHBB
09-05-2014, 12:21 AM
they stepped up in a pretty big game last year. This isn't last year, and that wasn't the World Cup. They did the exact same thing in the Olympics. They had plenty of chances to beat Spain and advance and they never stepped up.

usagre
09-05-2014, 04:21 PM
This isn't last year, and that wasn't the World Cup. They did the exact same thing in the Olympics. They had plenty of chances to beat Spain and advance and they never stepped up.

so let us minimize the European championships because it is not the Olympics or world cup. as if they did not have to "step up" in that tournament to eliminate spain and Lithuania. your logic as usual is flawless.

christodoulou76
09-05-2014, 04:25 PM
so let us minimize the European championships because it is not the Olympics or world cup. as if they did not have to "step up" in that tournament to eliminate spain and Lithuania. your logic as usual is flawless.

Most ppl in Europe would agree with usagre on this one. Despite P. Gasol's absence, France's victory last year was historic and well-deserved.

CHBB
09-05-2014, 06:04 PM
so let us minimize the European championships because it is not the Olympics or world cup. as if they did not have to "step up" in that tournament to eliminate spain and Lithuania. your logic as usual is flawless. Nobody is diminishing it. How many teams haven't had major victories at their respective confederations' championships? How many of those teams who had major victories at that level have stepped up at the next level, the World Cup or the Olympics? Do you think Spain or the other true European powers rest on their laurels or their past accomplishments? Hell no they don't. You're actually insulting France by acting like winning against those teams is not what they're supposed to do.

It is flawless, but you can't accept it so you talk nonsense and throw around generic buzzwords and insults like "logic". Besides, you're the one diminishing everybody other than the US.