Which teams have not a 9000 arena ?

[Fortitudo]

Benetton already said to Eruoleague that won't build a new arena for 2009,also Bologna is without an arena and Fortitudo and Benetton are planning to develop a new european league.
In Russia there are small arena (and they have low attendance,iwatched some games on Planeta Sport and the attendance was 200-300 ).
In France have wonderful arena but small,Germany has the better arena in Europe (thanks to his great ice hockey league) but they have low attendance.
What his your opinion about 9000 limit for Euroleague arena ?

[boki]

Isn't there minimum of 10.000 capacity from 2009? At least this number is spoken in Slovenia regarding building a new hall in Ljubljana.

[DanMajerle]

Germany has the better arena in Europe (thanks to his great ice hockey league) but they have low attendance.
What his your opinion about 9000 limit for Euroleague arena ?

Both wrong. Most arenas are no Ice Hockey arenas, some like Berlin, Bonn, Bamberg, Trier are basketball- only used arenas, no handball or so. Average attendance last year in BBL was 3.619 with no arena having less than 3.000 places.

Link

In about two yearsboth, Berlin and Cologne will have two Euroleague arenas each, Cologne is building a new arena and has 20.000 Kölnarena, Berlin as Max- Schmeling Halle and a new 20.000 Anschütz arena is built.

[Picek]

Dražen Petrović hall is only for 6000 people..
but for the handball WC in 2009. Zagreb will get a new arena big enough for 15-18 000 people..
but I doubt Cibona will ever play in it..

[SK rulez]

Well, I think that this limit is a bit difficult to be approved.
Spain (4): Tau has, Malaga has, Badalona has, Real has, but Barça has only the Palau St. Jordi, and i don't know if they will play in. But many teams also have.
Italy (4): In Italy there are only 4 arenas of more 9000: Milan, Rome, Pesaro (i think it could be a solution for Fortitudo and Virtus teams), and Turin. But Treviso, Siena and Napoli haven't.
Greece (3): PAO has, Oly has, Thessaloniki i don't know. Stop.
Turkey (2): Efes has, Fener has. Stop.
France (2): Only Paris has an arena 9000+.
Germany (1): Many cities have, but german teams can't fill it, and i think it will be a loss of money.
Poland (1): Any arena.
Adriatic zone: Slovenia hasn't, Croatia will have, but too big, Serbia has but too big.
Russia (1): Only Luxhniki in Moscow.
Israel has only Nokia Arena.
Lithuania has Siemens Arena and in future new Kaunas Arena.
Well, there are many countries without many big arenas.

[elaj]

According to (new) mayor of Ljubljana the new arena (10.000 people) should be built untill 2009/2010 season.

[SK rulez]

According to (new) mayor of Ljubljana the new arena (10.000 people) should be built untill 2009/2010 season.

Well, OK.
But i think that this limit will not approved, because ULEB is not a federation, ULEB is formed by clubs. Many important clubs will suffer for this decision, and ULEB can't make an EL with many teams which don't play in it, because they don't have the arena.
(well, i'm not completely objective because i'm treviso fan, and treviso risks to lose the EL, but i think that this limit is impossible to be approved).

[ArnoldPettybone]

stupid and unrealistic rule, 5000 limit is just fine(not that i agree with both)

[DanMajerle]

I also think 5.000 is ok, especially s the basketball experienece is much bett IMO in a up to 10.000 arena than in a 20.000 arena.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

it's not 9.000, but 10.000
...and a person I've spoken about this once, that was quite a decent level coach at his prime, after I said that is just for irritating the small clubs, said 10.000 was selected on purpose so some bigger clubs (Tau, Alba, Virtus, Pau, Barcelona) would be forced to build up more modern facilities or to move to bigger available arenas (as with Barcelona, Partizan and someothers).
He also claimed stepping down to 9.000 doesn't seem likely, but in case this happens it happened stricktly because of blackmailing of such clubs as mentioned above...

moving to bigger arenas is logical, since euroleague expects bigger attendancies because of that, which consequently brings a lot of things along it... and 10.000 seeated arena is nothing compared to some cities are investing in football stadiums...

with 10.000 instead of 9000, suddenly there are much less candidates...

[Joško Poljak Fan]

Well, OK.
But i think that this limit will not approved, because ULEB is not a federation, ULEB is formed by clubs. Many important clubs will suffer for this decision, and ULEB can't make an EL with many teams which don't play in it, because they don't have the arena.
(well, i'm not completely objective because i'm treviso fan, and treviso risks to lose the EL, but i think that this limit is impossible to be approved).

not really, I don't think Uleb cares about clubs not building arenas with enough capatibilities. Their message is clear: you want to watch top european basketball- yes? than start investing in it.

Even if some big clubs fall out for some period, other teams will fill the gap, in the midterm, get the best players and afterfew years noone will remember them, just as noone "remembers" Cantu or Varese right now...

[SK rulez]

But you have to consider 1 thing. Generally, the stadiums are of clubs, the arenas are of cities. Why Koln plays in Dusseldorf and not in Koln where they have the most beautiful arena in the Europe? Because it's too big. Koln will have to renting an 18000 state-of-the-art arena, but they will have at least 8000 people watching their game. This will be a very huge loss of money for Koln. And for many other teams (why Treviso will build a 9000 arena, if in Palaverde has 3500 people watching EL games? Also Cibona, Lubiana, French teams...)

[SK rulez]

not really, I don't think Uleb cares about clubs not building arenas with enough capatibilities. Their message is clear: you want to watch top european basketball- yes? than start investing in it.

Even if some big clubs fall out for some period, other teams will fill the gap, in the midterm, get the best players and afterfew years noone will remember them, just as noone "remembers" Cantu or Varese right now...

But ULEB knows that basketball is never the 1. sport in a country. Here in Italy only Benetton is a billionaire that has interest in basketball. Other teams will not fill the gap. But it's not only an italian problem, also in France, Germany. Or in Russia and Turkey have a lot of money, but small interest of the crowds.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

But you have to consider 1 thing. Generally, the stadiums are of clubs, the arenas are of cities. Why Koln plays in Dusseldorf and not in Koln where they have the most beautiful arena in the Europe? Because it's too big. Koln will have to renting an 18000 state-of-the-art arena, but they will have at least 8000 people watching their game. This will be a very huge loss of money for Koln. And for many other teams (why Treviso will build a 9000 arena, if in Palaverde has 3500 people watching EL games? Also Cibona, Lubiana, French teams...)

again, it's 10.000, not 9.000
as I said, Uleb's principle is: you wan euroleague- invest in order to play in it, if you're not willing to move to Koln arena- bad luck, enjoy Uleb cup.

and do you honestly think Uleb cares about Treviso, Ljubljana, Zagreb, Pau? or some historical bball towns like Cantu, Varese, Zadar, Split, Sarajevo, Limoges, Thessaloniki and so on... no, they want to increase the marketing possibilities of euroleague and they put this principle infront of old traditional powerhouses, that most of the people won't miss in the long term anyway.

btw. I forgot to mention one thing that is rumoured lately, that is 10.000 seated arena if you want to get the 3 year contract and something less (I believe that would still be more than recent 5000 demand) if the team qualifies from their national league that year- that is rumoured, by some, to be a temporary solution for few years in order to keep some teams in the euroleague, but in the long term I doubt euroleague would bow down.

According to (new) mayor of Ljubljana the new arena (10.000 people) should be built untill 2009/2010 season.

that was before he realised the city budget that has an annual deficit anyway will be deprieved for about 50 mio € annually
guess where (among other things) he'll spare those 50 mio € per year

[Joško Poljak Fan]

But ULEB knows that basketball is never the 1. sport in a country. Here in Italy only Benetton is a billionaire that has interest in basketball. Other teams will not fill the gap. But it's not only an italian problem, also in France, Germany. Or in Russia and Turkey have a lot of money, but small interest of the crowds.

...yes BUT the Uleb's idea is:"if you think you can't fill the 10.000 arena and you won't build one because of that, we'll give an euroleague spot to someone who can." and I believe that's the end of story for them...

...survival of the fittest only the strong survive... the marketing capitalism in it's clearest form