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Straight forward
12-12-2012, 07:58 PM
My salute to upcoming international event in Slovenia. Plenty of time left as well as a lot of if, but it's fun to speculate and to predict from the distance. So let's count the favourites.

1. RUSSIA. They are red hot currently! IMO, the strongest Russian NT since Soviet Union NT (filled with Lithuanians as the key players ;)). I picked Russia as the main condender because of the fact I somehow feel they might come full-roster in this event while some other teams likely to miss some leadership. Even if their star Kirilenko would decide to rest, they are having a strong wave rising with Alexey Shved (having a great Rookie year in NBA), Kaun, Voroncevič and Karasev. Like it wouldn't be enough, they have a very strong core of proven players - Fridzon, Monia, Khryapa, Mozgov. Great ballance and probably the best frontline of the tournament (if Kirilenko included). The questionmark is the coach - but who wouldn't want to coach this team? They will get a solid option, though Blatt was a perfect fir for them. Not the team to beat as full roster Spain was/is since 2006, but really strong team indeed. Having in mind this Eurobasket might be a little bit thin, I choose Russia as the team to win it all.

2. SPAIN. All depends on the roster. I can easily see Pau, Navarro and Calderon skipping the tournament. Despite that I still dear to put them in the second place as Ibaka is going up strong, Marc Gasol should be there and they have a fronline which will be very hard to stop. And we know Spain has guards - Rudy, Rubio, Llull and solid bench players as Sada and Claver. I expect big tournament for Rubio as international fans will be reminded how much talented he is.

3. GREECE. Somewhat being in a shaddow and silence after the fiasko in Olympic qualification, Greece might bounce back with the noise. At least they won't feel the pressure and they are still one of the deepest teams Europe. Spanoulis should be their franchise player while Nick Calathes should complement him. Papanikolaou should look good at 3 and they will have a very solid fronline with lately great Printezis and currently deepest center position in Europe:
Ioannis Bourousis, Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Kosta Koufos (Ian Vougioukas, Dimitrios Mavroeidis). Defenetly a medal contender.

4. FRANCE. I have a strange feeling Parker might want this! He's playing his best basketball in career and is surrounded by Batum (who is rocking NBA big time), Noah, De Colo. They might feel like they can take it all finally and they might come with full strenght. They have a very deep roster as well. Despite that, it's France and you can't count on them. Besides a lot will depend on Parker's shape, motivation and so on. Never trusted theyr coaching culture and team spirit while they can gather best team on the paper.

5. LITHUANIA. New coach, new generation, new story. Well, not exactly new generation as the core should be the same as in Turkey 2010. Our star Kleiza, main point guard Kalnietis and athletic shooting guard Pocius. However, the biggest intrigue is how much Jonas Valanciunas will be able to contribute already and how another great hope Donatas Motiejunas fit in (will he finally be there anyway!?). Quality roster mentiong Mačiulis, Jasaitis, Javtokas and Jankūnas. I'm a little bit pushing my expectations, but it is that kind of a team. We are the only basketball country in Europe afterall :D Warm wellcome to Jonas Kazlauskas!

6. SERBIA. Two years behind all talked about them as the new powerhouse in international basketball. Do they still have it all in them? Some of the prised players seem to be pretty average. Without a single doubt still very strong team that can rock it out if their mind, temper and seperate parts will in right place. Everything depends on Teodosič. I should probably be higher on them, but I don't feel like trusting them.


7. SLOVENIA. Show some respect for hosts!!! I put them here, just 1 step bellow Serbia not only because it's their event, but they can be actually good with big time leader Goran Dragič, his brother Zoran Dragič, Lorberk and hopefully Beno Udrih finally. Why shouldn't you invite Nachbar and Lakovič as well? And why not to give a shot for ex- Lakers super star? A good coach could make a team from that and it's a good chance for Slovenia to win the medal. However, Slovenia is know to underperform and these days they are not so deep as they used to be.

8. TURKEY. Turkey has great frontline with Ašik, Kanter and Iiasova. But will they have anyone to help them? We'll see. However, Turkey is the team that can go high or instantly to give it up after a bad start. I wouldn't trust them, but it will be fun to see Ašik and Kanter braking some boards. Unless the latter would decide to play in NBA summer league :p

9. CROATIA. If they could bring veterans back, they could be very interesting team. But it's a question. However, they do have Ukič, Bogdanovič, Tomas and Tomič. The biggest intrugue: how their upcoming big thing Sarič will do next year already? I expect him to make a rotation and to have few nice games. Croatia will have to wait at least few years to expect big things though. Dangerous team as always, but seems like two levels behind than it used to be in 00's. Future is bright though.

Other teams:

10. Montenegro.
11. Great Britain.
12. Italy.
13. Germany.
14. Poland.
15. Bosnia and Herzegovina
16. F.Y.R. of Macedonia
17. Georgia.
18. Israel.
19. Latvia.
20. Belgia.
21. Czech Republic.
22. Ukraine.
23. Finland
24. Sweden.

Tasos Peiraias
12-12-2012, 08:42 PM
GREECE:I agree with Straight forward.After the BIIIIIIIIG fiasko in the OQT in the summer,Greece MUST take a medal,if she wants to be in the best european teams.I believe she can do it of course with the same roster with the previous season,but better coaches(Giannakis,Blatt,Obradovic) and better preperation.
RUSSIA:I have a bad enstict for them.I am not sure what they are capable to do.
TURKEY:If they manage to escape from this Group,I recognise them!!!!!!
FYROM:No hope!!They will fight with Latvia for the 5th position in the Group.The fairy-taile finished in Venezuela and now it is going to be completed.
FRANCE:If finally have luck,they will take a medal.
SWEDEN:No comment.Basically,no win,-1000000000 goal average
FINLAND:Surpise!!!!!!

Dtown
12-12-2012, 09:01 PM
I expect Spain to have a down tournament with most of their stars taking the summer off, they're already qualified for the World Cup and three straight years of international competition/lengthy NBA seasons is a bit much to ask.

With a weakened Spain and probably a depleted France as well (for similar reasons), I expect Russia to be the team to beat.

A few more other bold predictions. Montenegro becomes the FYR of Macedonia for this tournament, Turkey fails to make it out of the first round, Italy surprises and makes the World Cup.

Mindozas
12-12-2012, 09:12 PM
7. SLOVENIA. Show some respect for hosts!!! I put them here, just 1 step bellow Serbia not only because it's their event, but they can be actually good with big time leader Goran Dragič, his brother Zoran Dragič, Lorberk and hopefully Beno Udrih finally. Why shouldn't you invite Nachbar and Lakovič as well? And why not to give a shot for ex- Lakers super star? A good coach could make a team from that and it's a good chance for Slovenia to win the medal. However, Slovenia is know to underperform and these days they are not so deep as they used to be.

Not that long ago Vujabitch rejected the offer to play for NT. I'm not sure it's true (I mean an offer), cause I was sure he won't be invited anymore after all the bullshit in previous years. But anyway that's great for Slovenia IMO. He is a great example how a "star" player can ruin the team. We also have one in the making as it seems...

What comes to Russia, they might be seriously weakened. Blatt already gone, he was huge in their recent success, the succesor will have hard time to fill his boots. Kirilenko might not comeback to NT anymore, Khryapa also said he is thinking to take summer off as he is tired as hell. Another two huge losses. Not sure about Monya too. Kaun, Mozgov, Vorontsevich all injury prones... Who knows how they'll look.

Overall, not very interesting Eurobasket as always after Olympics, expect lot of players to take summer off, might be lot of surprises. And waaaaay too early for predictions. Probably only in some July/August we'll see the shapes of NTs

Straight forward
12-12-2012, 09:32 PM
Not that long ago Vujabitch rejected the offer to play for NT. I'm not sure it's true (I mean an offer), cause I was sure he won't be invited anymore after all the bullshit in previous years. But anyway that's great for Slovenia IMO. He is a great example how a "star" player can ruin the team. We also have one in the making as it seems...

What comes to Russia, they might be seriously weakened. Blatt already gone, he was huge in their recent success, the succesor will have hard time to fill his boots. Kirilenko might not comeback to NT anymore, Khryapa also said he is thinking to take summer off as he is tired as hell. Another two huge losses. Not sure about Monya too. Kaun, Mozgov, Vorontsevich all injury prones... Who knows how they'll look.

Overall, not very interesting Eurobasket as always after Olympics, expect lot of players to take summer off, might be lot of surprises. And waaaaay too early for predictions. Probably only in some July/August we'll see the shapes of NTs

Thanks, I didn't hear that about Vujačič. I just read that Dragič trying to convince Udrih to play.

Russia is deep and very talented. Even only Shved and Fridzon can make a lot of trouble, can score big time. If they will have more or less the same roster as in Olympics (and such player as Shved is really rising), they should be among top contenders.

And I disagree shapes are so gloomy. I mean Lithuania's roster you can predict figure by figure unless some injuries. Maybe you'll miss 1 or 2 figures. The same with Greece, Russia, Serbia, Croatia, Turkey. I mean the quality of the teams are pretty much predictable in most cases.



A few more other bold predictions. Montenegro becomes the FYR of Macedonia for this tournament, Turkey fails to make it out of the first round, Italy surprises and makes the World Cup.

I agree Montenegro can qualify for the suprise or dark hourse of the tournament.

Mindozas
12-12-2012, 10:04 PM
Thanks, I didn't hear that about Vujačič. I just read that Dragič trying to convince Udrih to play.

I actually thought Udrih also lost case for Slovenia after he left the camp in 2010 not bein' satisfied with his role, then last summer was some lame exuse, marriage or smth. But he is not Vujacic (hopefully), so should be big boost if will decide to join. Slovenia is one of my favorite NTs in Europe, so hopefully they will be able to bring all the big guns. Atleast Nachbar surely deserves recognition, he proved that he still can contribute on highest level in Europe, even Bamberg is not the best club there. Plus they has some promising youngsters, so they should be really interesting team.


Russia is deep and very talented. Even only Shved and Fridzon can make a lot of trouble, can score big time. If they will have more or less the same roster as in Olympics (and such player as Shved is really rising), they should be among top contenders.

They has talent, no doubt. But if there'll be no Kirilenko - they are in deep trouble already. See CSKA this season. They are totally different team without him. Kirilenko's influence is huuuge on and off the court. Khryapa can take his place and compensate a little bit this loss, but if even he won't be there... I seriously doubt about Russia. Of course, they will be contenders, but not sure how big, depends on other NTs.


And I disagree shapes are so gloomy. I mean Lithuania's roster you can predict figure by figure unless some injuries. Maybe you'll miss 1 or 2 figures. The same with Greece, Russia, Serbia, Croatia, Turkey. I mean the quality of the teams are pretty much predictable in most cases.

Well, if it'd be Eurobasket before Olympics, then yes, but now - I'm not so sure. You can't tell how many players from NBA, top European clubs will play. So even those 1 or 2 figures might mean a lot and change the whole picture. As previous experience shows - Eurobasket after Olympics is usually a great excuse to take the summer off. I'm not talking only about top contenders, but also even such teams like Sweden can be different if they will have their key guys in tournament like NBAers Jerebko and Taylor f.e. That won't make them contenders of course, but overall prediction might change. However, we'll see what will happen, I hope the tournament will bring as many top players as possible ;)

turk-jugoslav
12-12-2012, 10:25 PM
My salute to upcoming international event in Slovenia. Plenty of time left as well as a lot of if, but it's fun to speculate and to predict from the distance. So let's count the favourites.

1. RUSSIA. They are red hot currently! IMO, the strongest Russian NT since Soviet Union NT (filled with Lithuanians as the key players ;)). I picked Russia as the main condender because of the fact I somehow feel they might come full-roster in this event while some other teams likely to miss some leadership. Even if their star Kirilenko would decide to rest, they are having a strong wave rising with Alexey Shved (having a great Rookie year in NBA), Kaun, Voroncevič and Karasev. Like it wouldn't be enough, they have a very strong core of proven players - Fridzon, Monia, Khryapa, Mozgov. Great ballance and probably the best frontline of the tournament (if Kirilenko included). The questionmark is the coach - but who wouldn't want to coach this team? They will get a solid option, though Blatt was a perfect fir for them. Not the team to beat as full roster Spain was/is since 2006, but really strong team indeed. Having in mind this Eurobasket might be a little bit thin, I choose Russia as the team to win it all.

2. SPAIN. All depends on the roster. I can easily see Pau, Navarro and Calderon skipping the tournament. Despite that I still dear to put them in the second place as Ibaka is going up strong, Marc Gasol should be there and they have a fronline which will be very hard to stop. And we know Spain has guards - Rudy, Rubio, Llull and solid bench players as Sada and Claver. I expect big tournament for Rubio as international fans will be reminded how much talented he is.

3. GREECE. Somewhat being in a shaddow and silence after the fiasko in Olympic qualification, Greece might bounce back with the noise. At least they won't feel the pressure and they are still one of the deepest teams Europe. Spanoulis should be their franchise player while Nick Calathes should complement him. Papanikolaou should look good at 3 and they will have a very solid fronline with lately great Printezis and currently deepest center position in Europe:
Ioannis Bourousis, Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Kosta Koufos (Ian Vougioukas, Dimitrios Mavroeidis). Defenetly a medal contender.

4. FRANCE. I have a strange feeling Parker might want this! He's playing his best basketball in career and is surrounded by Batum (who is rocking NBA big time), Noah, De Colo. They might feel like they can take it all finally and they might come with full strenght. They have a very deep roster as well. Despite that, it's France and you can't count on them. Besides a lot will depend on Parker's shape, motivation and so on. Never trusted theyr coaching culture and team spirit while they can gather best team on the paper.

5. LITHUANIA. New coach, new generation, new story. Well, not exactly new generation as the core should be the same as in Turkey 2010. Our star Kleiza, main point guard Kalnietis and athletic shooting guard Pocius. However, the biggest intrigue is how much Jonas Valanciunas will be able to contribute already and how another great hope Donatas Motiejunas fit in (will he finally be there anyway!?). Quality roster mentiong Mačiulis, Jasaitis, Javtokas and Jankūnas. I'm a little bit pushing my expectations, but it is that kind of a team. We are the only basketball country in Europe afterall :D Warm wellcome to Jonas Kazlauskas!

6. SERBIA. Two years behind all talked about them as the new powerhouse in international basketball. Do they still have it all in them? Some of the prised players seem to be pretty average. Without a single doubt still very strong team that can rock it out if their mind, temper and seperate parts will in right place. Everything depends on Teodosič. I should probably be higher on them, but I don't feel like trusting them.


7. SLOVENIA. Show some respect for hosts!!! I put them here, just 1 step bellow Serbia not only because it's their event, but they can be actually good with big time leader Goran Dragič, his brother Zoran Dragič, Lorberk and hopefully Beno Udrih finally. Why shouldn't you invite Nachbar and Lakovič as well? And why not to give a shot for ex- Lakers super star? A good coach could make a team from that and it's a good chance for Slovenia to win the medal. However, Slovenia is know to underperform and these days they are not so deep as they used to be.

8. TURKEY. Turkey has great frontline with Ašik, Kanter and Iiasova. But will they have anyone to help them? We'll see. However, Turkey is the team that can go high or instantly to give it up after a bad start. I wouldn't trust them, but it will be fun to see Ašik and Kanter braking some boards. Unless the latter would decide to play in NBA summer league :p

9. CROATIA. If they could bring veterans back, they could be very interesting team. But it's a question. However, they do have Ukič, Bogdanovič, Tomas and Tomič. The biggest intrugue: how their upcoming big thing Sarič will do next year already? I expect him to make a rotation and to have few nice games. Croatia will have to wait at least few years to expect big things though. Dangerous team as always, but seems like two levels behind than it used to be in 00's. Future is bright though.

Other teams:

10. Montenegro.
11. Great Britain.
12. Italy.
13. Germany.
14. Poland.
15. Bosnia and Herzegovina
16. F.Y.R. of Macedonia
17. Georgia.
18. Israel.
19. Latvia.
20. Belgia.
21. Czech Republic.
22. Ukraine.
23. Finland
24. Sweden.

Great analys. Congrats to you!

JRS Bonnet
12-12-2012, 10:48 PM
2. SPAIN. All depends on the roster. I can easily see Pau, Navarro and Calderon skipping the tournament. Despite that I still dear to put them in the second place as Ibaka is going up strong, Marc Gasol should be there and they have a fronline which will be very hard to stop. And we know Spain has guards - Rudy, Rubio, Llull and solid bench players as Sada and Claver. I expect big tournament for Rubio as international fans will be reminded how much talented he is.

8. TURKEY. Turkey has great frontline with Ašik, Kanter and Iiasova. But will they have anyone to help them? We'll see. However, Turkey is the team that can go high or instantly to give it up after a bad start. I wouldn't trust them, but it will be fun to see Ašik and Kanter braking some boards. Unless the latter would decide to play in NBA summer league :p


Serge Ibaka probably won’t play for Spain anymore. Spanish media reported that, during the Olympics, Ibaka was even shunned by his «teammates». Nikola Mirotic will take his place.

I paid particular attention to Turkey throughout the 2013 qualifiers (they were in group F alongside Portugal). They were a bit inconsistent: pathetic one day, repulsive another. Their backcourt was a joke. They won’t get past the first group stage.

As for your other predictions, you seem to be underestimating Lithuania (how very decent of you…), Italy (medal contenders), and Finland.

Straight forward
12-13-2012, 12:35 PM
As for your other predictions, you seem to be underestimating Lithuania (how very decent of you…), Italy (medal contenders), and Finland.

Hopefully you're right about Lithuania :D If Turkey's WC key players will be in a good shape and Valančiūnas will dominate the boards (he already can do that on not a regular basis), we might very well look good. However, we are looking for a new, young back-up point guard and we don't know how and if Motiejūnas will help us. From what I've seen in Olympics, Lithuania really needs more energy and more sources for offence. Motiejunas exactly expected to give that offensive spark, but he's an enigma. Besides, new system of Kazlauskas so it's very natural to lower expectations a little bit.

I don't believe in Italy at all. Don't even want to say anything else about it. While I'm going to search why people are high on Finland so much. I kinda missed that.

c-myers
12-13-2012, 02:06 PM
Unfortunatelly we are still have too bad guards ender arslan, kerem tunçeri this both clown. therefore perhaps ıt will be disapointment.

In fact I trust our big mans Ilyasova,kanter, asık and sf emir preldzic and sg ömer etc. If we had a Spanoulis, shved etc. everything would be different :D

Toxicity
12-13-2012, 02:36 PM
I think you're overestimating Greece and underestimating Italy... our usual problem is among big men but if we really can add Travis Diener as starter PG while maintaining the team play of the last summer (without selfishness)... watch out.

Straight forward
12-13-2012, 03:54 PM
I think you're overestimating Greece and underestimating Italy... our usual problem is among big men but if we really can add Travis Diener as starter PG while maintaining the team play of the last summer (without selfishness)... watch out.

Interesting. I was basically referring to IMO horrible leadership of Belineli and Bargnani. Gallinari is better and I think most talented of all 3 players, but he's not a glue for making a team either. Also, Italy is lacking true, physical center right? And lastly, since 2005 I guess, Italy belongs to the same category of teams as France, Slovenia, Croatia. No matter how talented you can be, you can easily underperform.

Toxicity
12-13-2012, 09:24 PM
Interesting. I was basically referring to IMO horrible leadership of Belineli and Bargnani. Gallinari is better and I think most talented of all 3 players, but he's not a glue for making a team either. Also, Italy is lacking true, physical center right? And lastly, since 2005 I guess, Italy belongs to the same category of teams as France, Slovenia, Croatia. No matter how talented you can be, you can easily underperform.

I think we can say goodbye to the one-man-show of the recent past... obviously we need some scoring in the low--post and Bargnani has shown he can do it pretty well at Euro level but we have finally a good bunch of talented players who can play as a team so i think that we don't need Bargnani and Belinelli to be the savers especially if they don't play smart.

I think guys like Datome (MVP of the italian league so far in a surprising low-budget team like Roma) and Aradori (Top 10 in Euroleague scorers) will help a lot our offensive game... with Diener we could have a good PG at Euro level, coupled with the toughness and leadership of Daniel Hackett.

We still lack a true physical center even if Cusin is improved a lot in the last 2 years and Crosariol is playing a good season in Pesaro... we have some good young players like Polonara and Melli but they're forwards mainly... i think in the end our starting center will be Bargnani (with Cusin and Gigli as backups) and Gallinari will play PF together with Datome at SF. I think we'll be a tough team to defend, at very least...

Victorious
12-14-2012, 12:50 PM
I agree with you most of Straight Forward predictions.
Spain is probably going to loose its first place. They are still playing with their old generation and their best players are not at their best anymore. Not to mention that other teams have new players who play faster and more modern basketball. Spain was ahead on that in previous years. But the difference was declining in every tournament.
Russia is one of the best teams around lately. You have to give them that, because they have been consistent over the last couple of years, but the truth remains that I am not sure that they have what it takes to make the extra leap and be the best team in the tournament. They have to do that in order to win Eurobasket, because they are now playing as favorites and this makes it harder to perform well in important games. Moreover, the loss of coach Blatt is going to make it harder. Not because the next coach will be bad, but a change always needs some time to be absorbed.
France While Russia and Spain will battle as favorites, the French may finally have a chance to go all the way through the back door. They are playing better and more mature each and every year and it could be so that (if complete) they finally reach the top. As long as if - of course - they won't meat their nemesis, Greece, in a knockout game. Speaking of which, Greece with arguably its weakest roster in the decade, almost managed to beat France in the quarter finals in Lithuana. However, Greece today looks like it has one of the best rosters ever. A very strong front line in Sofo, Koufos who gets a lot of playng time, Bourousis which seems to be at his best. Very respectable forwards like Fotsis, Papanikolaou, Printezis, Kaimakoglou, Perperoglou. And some very good potential guards like Spanoulis, Calathes, Mantzaris, Vassiliades, Zisis, Sloukas, Pappas. And this is the critical question we should ask about Greece. Are their guards good enough to win medals? Sure Spanoulis is good, and while Zisis is moderate, most of the other guards are simply excellent prospects. I can see Calathes, Sloukas, Mantzaris and Pappas carry Greece in the future, but for now they could be just one step behind beating teams like Russia and Spain. If I were the coach of Greece, I would still try to ad Diamantidis on that roster. In which case you would have a clear gold medal contender.
Lithuania will not be a gold medal contender though, but they are surely stronger than many people think. Even after Saras, they seem to have a lot of options. Players like Macioulis, who may be one of the best in Europe, but still needs some time to proove it. Only medal contenders will be able to beat Lithuania in the coming tournament.
Besides the teams I listed above, I see very few medal contenders. Serbia is surely a team you want to avoid though. They can beat anyone if they are in good shape. Perhaps Slovenia can surprise, but I am not sure they can handle the pressure. Italy and Turkey are big question marks. Italy is becoming better each year and Turkey can pull of a stunt like Japan, when they had a lot of youngsters and no pressure. Perhaps Turkey will decide to bring its veterans and battle for a medal, but I think it will fail. I would start over with a new young team. Onan, Tunceri, Turkoglou, Gonlum are a thing of the past.

Pero Antic
01-26-2013, 02:12 PM
GREECE:I agree with Straight forward.After the BIIIIIIIIG fiasko in the OQT in the summer,Greece MUST take a medal,if she wants to be in the best european teams.I believe she can do it of course with the same roster with the previous season,but better coaches(Giannakis,Blatt,Obradovic) and better preperation.
RUSSIA:I have a bad enstict for them.I am not sure what they are capable to do.
TURKEY:If they manage to escape from this Group,I recognise them!!!!!!
MACEDONIA:No hope!!They will fight with Latvia for the 5th position in the Group.The fairy-taile finished in Venezuela and now it is going to be completed.
FRANCE:If finally have luck,they will take a medal.
SWEDEN:No comment.Basically,no win,-1000000000 goal average
FINLAND:Surpise!!!!!!


Never trust a Greek who's broke......why should greece win a medal and macedonia fight with some Latvia for the 5th place in our group? where is your logic we both didnt manage to qualfiy in venezuela because of a bad game (nigeria or Dom rep.) But i know you guys are crazy about seeing us loosing in every game in this tourney to come. Same Story: The almighty Greeks who dares to contradict their prediction. I remember as it was yesterday when you guys were laughing at us how we managed to qualify and how we even left the B division in which your greek fiba official put us whitout any reason in 2001 with the likes of Albania, Austria, Hungary etc. it was a big shame for FIBA but the whole federation is corrupt. There was even a atempt of the Greek Federation not to show up against MAcedonia in 2009 with the reason that "Greeks dont play against slavo bulgarians with no history" and some other headlines in the newspapers. Changing names on the tv screen because it has the word "macedonia" and a million other things you do to feel better are just one of many examples how obsessed you are with us. So since 2008 we are getting every year better and better and Basketball is two levels higher today than 2011 and you still laugh and undestemate us like we are nation in the 3rd world and not your neighbours with whom you share a border....enoug said

PS: Ales Pipan is our new coach and he said that he will bring back Gecevski and Ilievski and some young talented guys adding to the standard Roster which means we will play with the strongest possibly team in Slovenia and BIG fan support which again means THERE IS HOPE........

Straight forward
01-29-2013, 10:20 PM
Official Eurobasket web started power ranking of Eurobasket 2013, every week. There's first:

www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_wDYZ10kCJ8U3KgH0-Kjye3.articleMode_on.html

Toxicity
02-01-2013, 07:53 AM
According to Sportando, Ettore Messina is very close to coaching Turkey NT... it would be the first time in history, i believe, with 3 national teams coached by 3 italians in the same group... :eek:

Joško Poljak Fan
02-01-2013, 04:23 PM
Thanks, I didn't hear that about Vujačič. I just read that Dragič trying to convince Udrih to play.
Staff from NT tried to convience Vujačič to play this year once again, but he once again refused and said he is done with NT isn't on the wider player list accordingly. Udrih confirmed he is in.
To be honest with G.Dragič, Udrih and Lakovič at PG, Udrih will undoubtebly get quite some minutes at SG, at some spans considering Nachbar and E.Murič will play at SF, Zoran Dragič should mostlikely get a portion of SG minutes as well, especially to screw with nerves of some top-scorers there in defense. For what is probably left with minutes on SG than, I don't think there are many that would consider taking Vujačič over Blažič, who is showing potential to become one of the best SG's we've ever had, if not the best, during this season.
Defensive wise both Dragič's, Murič and Blažič are a good upgrade on the past, not to mention their deadly open court game, if they'll have a chance to play it.

Slovenia will be relatively weak inside, or weaker than we've been used to. Begić and Lorbek are able to repeat their previous performances with the NT, while Vidmar and Slokar although decent are still liability compared to the level we were used to with Nesterovič, Brezec, Smodiš in the past.

I'd really love to make some predictions, yet I can't help myself but wait for the final rosters.
All I can say right now is that Spain has the talent to overcome the absence of some of their top stars and France wasn't a coincidence, as the new ruls are as if written especially for them.

Straight forward
02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Staff from NT tried to convience Vujačič to play this year once again, but he once again refused and said he is done with NT isn't on the wider player list accordingly. Udrih confirmed he is in.
To be honest with G.Dragič, Udrih and Lakovič at PG, Udrih will undoubtebly get quite some minutes at SG, at some spans considering Nachbar and E.Murič will play at SF, Zoran Dragič should mostlikely get a portion of SG minutes as well, especially to screw with nerves of some top-scorers there in defense. For what is probably left with minutes on SG than, I don't think there are many that would consider taking Vujačič over Blažič, who is showing potential to become one of the best SG's we've ever had, if not the best, during this season.
Defensive wise both Dragič's, Murič and Blažič are a good upgrade on the past, not to mention their deadly open court game, if they'll have a chance to play it.

Slovenia will be relatively weak inside, or weaker than we've been used to. Begić and Lorbek are able to repeat their previous performances with the NT, while Vidmar and Slokar although decent are still liability compared to the level we were used to with Nesterovič, Brezec, Smodiš in the past.


Udrih should surely give you offensive boost that Slovenia was lacking, specially when Dragič gets locked and that happens time to time even if he still as a player only going forward. The backourt seems really impressive, specially if Blažič already can play well in Eurobasket. Seems like Slovenia will be deeper than I expected, you surely don't need Vujačič. Maybe frontline isn't that spectacular, but Slovenia looks really good on the paper. The question is can you biuld the team out of this and can Dragič and Udrih (or maybe some other player?) bring Slovenia on their shoulders when the ball is hot. I think it's save to say that Slovenia was lacking balls in 00's. Something what seperated you from elite teams while the roster was always looked nice and there even was chemistry. It's just that Slovenia used to collapse in most imprtant games, and I'm talking not only about miracles in 2007 Eurobasket...

Joško Poljak Fan
02-01-2013, 07:30 PM
Udrih should surely give you offensive boost that Slovenia was lacking, specially when Dragič gets locked and that happens time to time even if he still as a player only going forward. The backourt seems really impressive, specially if Blažič already can play well in Eurobasket. Seems like Slovenia will be deeper than I expected, you surely don't need Vujačič. Maybe frontline isn't that spectacular, but Slovenia looks really good on the paper. The question is can you biuld the team out of this and can Dragič and Udrih (or maybe some other player?) bring Slovenia on their shoulders when the ball is hot. I think it's save to say that Slovenia was lacking balls in 00's. Something what seperated you from elite teams while the roster was always looked nice and there even was chemistry. It's just that Slovenia used to collapse in most imprtant games, and I'm talking not only about miracles in 2007 Eurobasket...
Some collapses were epic. For me in a different direction than "epic" ussualy means, but to a large degree onedimensional playmaking had a big part of it and after sleeping over it most of those had some sense considering what was going on on court. Losing vs. Israel due to Petrov unable bringing the ball up court (the time when Vujačič would actuay be worth gold but was cut as 13th player), next championship Dirk completely screwed us over, Greece due to Lakovič being over-forced till exhaustion and than again when we got Dragič in Poland, his injury basicaly repeated the Greek scenario vs. Serbia in semi's. The last championship was more of actual lacking of quality along with long-range shooting than anything else.
If staying healthy playmaking shouldn't be a concern this time. 3point shooting might though with some damn injury or two that love to happen to our NT recently.

I think this time Slovenia will mostlikely play much different than the ussual slow paced controled game (even if that's bold to claim with Maljković on bench), but it's still bball, one possesion changes it all without much philosophy :). No host has won it all since Germans in 92' so I guess pressure will as ussual play a big part. Hopefully the younger generation will proove themselves better than the old one did.

Terrorizer
02-02-2013, 12:46 PM
Interesting thread here. I think it's still too early because rosters can change drastically with time. Overall, I shall rate teams potentially into some broad groups.

Group I. Favourites: Spain and Russia.

Maybe these teams will be the most depleted in their rosters since Spain will automatically qualify for WC-2014 as a host and many Russian players already voiced their possible absence due to fatigue, personal reasons, slime characters and so on. Spain has a deeper pool of players, so they can get away with it more successfully than Russia. If absences will be limited to Kirilenko and Shved (the latter one I want to never wear our NT jersey again for his atrocities against spirit of basketball commited in the last Olympics) I'll go with our team as a team to beat in this tourney. But if some other players will skip this Eurobasket then it can cause us really big problems. Especially if Khryapa will be one of them as rumoured. And how Katsikaris will manage to coach this team also is a giantic question mark. Also our young prospects stagnate in this last season, so players whom I once saw as a possible good rotation players for NT like Semen Antonov, Artem Yakovenko, Valeri Likhodey, Pavel Sergeev, Evgeni Voronov (truly a defensive beast) can't break it to the next level as I expected them to do, mostly due to a really bad situation with coaching and management in Russia. And this situation will become much worse in the near future as scum Ivanov lifted the limit on foreign players. We have a great talent in our players selection, especially bball IQ-wise, but most of it gets wasted in a painfully stupid manner. Some absences can be even beneficial to Spain also (like Slowlderon, Bricky, Ibaka or even Pau) as without these players they will be depleted of some offensive firepower but instead will most probably play in a much more varied, team-oriented and senseful basketball.

Group II. Powers to reckon with: France, Greece, Serbia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Croatia, Italy.

These team are level or two below the first two but most of them can be seen as the medal contenders. Still it all depends on actual rosters and many other things which remain uncertain today.

I never trust France if they tend to rely on brainless NBA retards like glamour star Tony Longoria (has no real floor general mentality and always forces things in the retarded J.R. Holden or 'Mr. Hyde-mode of Teodosic' manner) or homo-looking idiot Noah. Fat-ass Diaw who was a great player back in the day but now he has Sofo's speed and none of his heftyness, some talentless but massive NBA bench-warmers at C posiiton and injury-prone degraded Gelabale - well, it doesn't look like a good core of players. Beaubouis is so injury-prone also and rarely plays for NT. If they will be smart enough to base their game on solid European-based players (with possible addition of de Colo) with only other NBAer present being the go-to guy for the team Nicolas Batum who made an astonishing progress lately then they will be among the favourites. If they will include Parker, Noah, Diaw, Pietro, Gelabale, Turiaf, etc. then I hope they will be eliminated with shame. At least it will happen if God will care about this Slovenian EuroBasket. Oh, I forgot about Kevin Seraphin. He also must be included as he is their best option under the basket alongside with Ali Traore (but what's with the latter's injury?).

If France will be present in their retarded mode (which is a shame as their early 2000s pre-T.P. team was one of the most clever all around) then most probable fav for the podium finish will be Greece. Right now their possible squad looks rich on offensive prowess and able to play reasonably - Spanoulis as a leader, Vasileiadis, Printezis, Bourousis, Sofo, Mavrokefalidis (if he will be called after all this recent bs), athletic Bramos, some old guys like Fotsis and Zisis, some decent role players (Kaimakoglou, Perperoglou, Vougioukas, Kalathes) and some young prospects ready to step up in Papanikolaou, Pappas and possibly some others... well, it looks like a good pool of players to select from.

Others are less deep or if deep then have some other problems which seriously weaken their capabilities. Those Serbian talents who shocked the world in Poland-2009 and groomed to be the next big thing here in Europe mostly underperform and some of them are shades of their former selves instead of the upgraded and more developed players, team's leader Teodosic plays worse and worse lately with his retarded Hyde-half overcoming Dr. Jekyll's one. And, keep it in mind, their recent European qualification campaign was really shameful. Still Serbia has tons of talented players (comparable to the continent's best like Spain, Russia and France) and can be very dangerous but they are a huge gamble. Croatia lacks a great leader (maybe we must wait till Saric and Hezonja grow up as Bogdanovic looks like he isn't suited for this role despite his offensive talent) and some of its core players took the change for worse (especially among PGs where it was one of the best in Europe - all of Planinic, Popovic and especially Ukic look so much worse than they were some 2-3 years ago). Not to talk about their habit of underperforming, aura of off-court scandals and sudden bursts of stupidity on the floor in the most clutch moments. Croatia has a deep pool of solid players (like Zoric, Tomic, Banic, Simon and so on) and a dead-eye scorer in Bogdanovic but I'll be surprised to see 'em in semis even if their level of talent clearly can afford them to go there. Their neigbour Slovenia is past their peak as most of their recent best players are in their mid-30s right now (Lakovic, Milic, Brezec, Becirovic and so on) and looks much less deep with their rotation. If they will bring His Stupidity Udrih it could be a catastrophe for this team. And I never trust G. Dragic who is a typical example of European underachiever prospering in NBA's much less clever basketball. Imho, his brother Zoran is the more talented of two and look how he plays in Malaga. In fact Goran played even worse when he was in Europe - really overrated player. Their future looks brighter than their present is as they have some very promising guys like Jaka Blazic and Alen Omic but right now Slovenia can be seen only as a really long-shot medal contender even if Nachbar, Lorbek, Vidmar and Begic with possible help from SLokar and Zupan do constitute a solid and experienced frontline. Lithuania is similar to Slovenia but has much more of mental toughness and determination. Their best players of the last decade are too old right now and their substitutes don't look like ready to fill those big shoes of all these players like Kaukenas, Siskauskas, Macijauskas, Jasikevicius, Lavrinovic bros, Stombergas who formed such a formidable power in the mid 2000s. Valanciunas doesn't look like a player ready right now to lead the team, Motiejunas plays mostly garbage minutes in NBA even after great preformance in the summer league and Kleiza can't fully recover from his injuries as they continue to affect his playing style. While their possible roster has some very sympathetic players like Maciulis, Pocius, Seibutis and some others I put them behind some 6-7 teams quality-wise. But Lithuania is (almost) always strong in its mentality and fighting spirit, so they can surprise positively in this tournament. The remaining team which is Italy is a huge question mark. They can be seen as some sort of 'France Jr.' If they will play once again with five egoistical players spending 35+ minutes on the floor then they most probably will be eliminated early like it was in EuroBasket-2011. But if they will go back to the clever Italian style with defensive hustle, mobility and great shooting from behind the arc they can go far in Slovenia, especially if they will be appreciated as some sort of perennial underachiever. Brilliant Datome, forceful Mancinelli, natural-born shooter Aradori, great even for his fighting spirit alone floor general Daniel Hackett - cream of their possible roster looks impressive. And if they will add Travis Diener then they have a crafty pass-first top class PG, much needed for organization of this set of players into cohesive and intelligent whole. Out of their NBAers I shall choose only Danilo as two others hurt more than they help - especially in defense.

Group III. Dark horses: Germany, Turkey, Macedonia, Montenegro, Finland, Georgia.

Out of these Germany looks like a most probable positive suprise. Most probably they will lack any NBAers but overall this squad is packed with coachable and intelligent players, so they should not be underestimated. Combination of Schaffartzik, Benzing, Pleiss, Hamann, Schwethelm, Zirbes, Guenther and many others looks like a really promising squad with the moderately bright future ahead of them. Turkey will have the most massive frontcourt with Asik, Kanter and Erden but the fact that this frountcourt simultaneously will be one of the most dumb ones mostly negates this advantage. Turkey lacks a really bright offenisve talent, especially in their backcourt (where there are always some very promising players in youth categories but their talents get wasted due to bad coaching and management parallelling Russian situation), and basketball IQ to be a real threat. Macedonia, a fairytale come true of the last EuroBasket, most probably won't be as strong as it was in Lithuania. Some rumours about Ilievski and Antic absences, overaged and thin squad (though their possible SF of McCalebb - Ilievski - V.Stojanovski - Antic - Samardziski looks very respectable) - well, even McCalebb's presence could be not enough to go into the play-off stage. Montenegro gets really overrated as of late - nice squad overall with the great qualification campaign behind them but they lack brains (Omar Cook is not enough) and experience to be something more than a possible collector of some giants' scalps unable to go far. And Pekovic&Vucevic frontcourt can rival Turkish one in both stupidity and massiveness. I can't see them as a real QF contender. Finland and Georgia are both kinda thin with their rosters but they have some quality in their ranks (Koponen, Rannikko, Salin, Lee, Kotti, Huff for the first and Sanikidze, Markoishvili, Shermadini, Shegelia,Tsintsadze and even J-Pullz for the latter) and, most importantly, nice and clever playing styles, so they can be actually more dangerous than most of us will predict.

Group IV. All the others: Bosnia And Herzegovina, Czech Republic, Ukraine, Israel, UK, Latvia, Poland, Belgium, Sweden.

These are the teams whom I doubt to make a big positive buzz in this tournament but most of them are decent overall and some has solid European and NBA players in their rosters (but these rosters are mostly thin).

Also I must add that some of the teams which missed this EuroBasket (like Hungary, Estonia, Bulgaria, Azerbaijan, Austria, Netherlands, Belarus, Switzerland) can be of course competitive in it and that's another indication of how much European basketball improved in its middle and lower ranks - luckily for us, it became much more even and intriguing to watch with massive blowouts being a rare feat here.

Straight forward
02-02-2013, 01:27 PM
I If absences will be limited to Kirilenko and Shved (the latter one I want to never wear our NT jersey again for his atrocities against spirit of basketball commited in the last Olympics) I'll go with our team as a team to beat in this tourney

No disrespect, but you are delusional if you think that Russia without both Kirilenko and Shved remains the team to beat. At this point, I'm not even sure who is more important because if there is no Shved, Russia has no reliability and talent at 1. Bykov and Pankrašov is not competition here at elite level. Shved was exactly the reason why Russia was able to step forward in terms of wuality in London. You had no world class guard for decades fella and you like it or not Russia without Shved would most likely fall to category of "decent teams"...Russia won 2007 Eurobasket because they had back Russian Holden.

Maybe Russia can win the title (which I don't believe) without world class guard (and the only real world calss in your team is Shved), but you better have Kirilenko because fronline will have to do a lot.

Actually except Shved no-one in Russia can make his own shot in the clutch time. Even Kirilenko is not that type of a player. It was Shved who nailed some extremely important individual shots in Olympics and it was Holden who won the final for Russia...

JRS Bonnet
02-02-2013, 07:30 PM
Sportando reports that Travis Diener is on the brink of receiving an Italian passport. If that’s the case, Italy has found the PG they desperately need and is now a title contender.

Link: http://www.sportando.net/eng/italy/serie-a/50420/travis-diener-is-close-to-obtain-the-italian-passport.html

Mindozas
02-03-2013, 11:55 AM
Sportando reports that Travis Diener is on the brink of receiving an Italian passport. If that’s the case, Italy has found the PG they desperately need and is now a title contender.

Link: http://www.sportando.net/eng/italy/serie-a/50420/travis-diener-is-close-to-obtain-the-italian-passport.html

Bargnani and his team "title contender" - feels kinda awkward :)

Joško Poljak Fan
02-03-2013, 12:53 PM
In my opinion Italy is actualy right up there with medal contenders with or without a PG. Just that Bargnani and Belinelli should stop jacking up shots, play for team and pay attention to defensive rotations to the same level most of their teamates do - yet to see that happen, possible although it would need some better coaching than in the past. Offensive talent of the individuals isn't questionable, their coherence within the team imo is though, at least judging from last championship and pre-champ games. I personaly would prefer a smaller lineup with Gallinari and players as DaTome, Melli, Aradori, Hacket, Cusin, Gentile etc playing a traditional Italian passing game.

One thing you guys are forgetting though. Slovenia and Lithuania were imo the countries that noticably exploited those oppurtunities in the past as they've traditionaly had big and loud fan support, this time it could be said that 4-5 other countries might have the fan support on bigger scale than these two had in the past on most occasions. Sure that's not entirely decisive, a team still can't win with big fan support while sucking all the way, but I think we all agree it makes it whole lot easier for them.

Italy will be playing 15 minutes away from the border, less than an hour by foot that is. Consider them having the fan support of a host basicaly, without the pressure on the team that comes along that. On a home court Italy is likelier to pass over Greece, Turkey or Russia - one of those teams will be eliminated after 1st group stage already and that team is pretty unlikely to be Italy, even with Bagnani and Belinelli screwing it up. In the 2nd stage teams from group D will mostlikely face Spain, Slovenia and Croatia, first one still extremely talented no matter their missing stars and other two having "the host" like support. As far as I've been told tickets for 2nd stage will be sold individualy, meaning that could as well mean those teams might face 10.000 Croatian crowd hypotethicaly if they won't completely dissapoint as in Lithuania.
This said imo most of the Greece, Turkey, Russia supporters are unlikely to be satisfied with the outcome at the end of the championship as they have one of the worst schedules in the last decade or even further.

Other fan supported teams are packed in baltic-balkan group B, in case Serbia or BiH survive it they can normaly reach a host-like atmosphere in Ljubljana in the 2nd round.

This said bare in minds that Italy, Croatia and balkan teams that'll survive the group B should get a noticable boost from the fans, making some of their weaknesses rather less significant as they'd normaly be. If some of them find theirself in more than just "a decent shape" they're becoming the favorites for the medals much faster than the ussual. With as many teams expected to have loud fans behind their back this time, winning it all without fan support makes it all that less likely as well, which should be a noticable counterbalance for teams as France, Russia or Spain whose fans normaly don't really appear untill semi's.

JRS Bonnet
02-03-2013, 03:52 PM
In my opinion Italy is actualy right up there with medal contenders with or without a PG. Just that Bargnani and Belinelli should stop jacking up shots, play for team and pay attention to defensive rotations to the same level most of their teamates do - yet to see that happen, possible although it would need some better coaching than in the past. Offensive talent of the individuals isn't questionable, their coherence within the team imo is though, at least judging from last championship and pre-champ games. I personaly would prefer a smaller lineup with Gallinari and players as DaTome, Melli, Aradori, Hacket, Cusin, Gentile etc playing a traditional Italian passing game.


Italy’s starting five could be impressive:

PG Travis Diener
SG Pietro Aradori
SF Luigi Datome
PF Danilo Galinari
C Andrea Bargnani

Off the bench:
Andrea Cinciarini (PG)
Daniel Hackett (G)
Marco Bellineli (SG)
Stefano Mancinelli (F). Cantů’s latest signing (finally!)
Marco Cousin (C)
And 2 more players that Boyd20 will certainly point out (Polonara? Vitali? Melli? Gentile? Poeta?)

Straight forward
02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Italy’s starting five could be impressive:

PG Travis Diener
SG Pietro Aradori
SF Luigi Datome
PF Danilo Galinari
C Andrea Bargnani

Off the bench:
Andrea Cinciarini (PG)
Daniel Hackett (G)
Marco Bellineli (SG)
Stefano Mancinelli (F). Cantů’s latest signing (finally!)
Marco Cousin (C)
And 2 more players that Boyd20 will certainly point out (Polonara? Vitali? Melli? Gentile? Poeta?)

So what exactly this fronline would be doing against Ašik's and Kanter's fronline for example? They lucky Montenegro is not in their group. However, pretty interesting case. This Eurobasket gonna be interesting despite few superstars like Pau Gasol and Kirilenko probably missing...

Toxicity
02-04-2013, 11:17 PM
So what exactly this fronline would be doing against Ašik's and Kanter's fronline for example? They lucky Montenegro is not in their group. However, pretty interesting case. This Eurobasket gonna be interesting despite few superstars like Pau Gasol and Kirilenko probably missing...

Asik is a not-factor on offense, he's a great rebounder and decend defender but i doubt he can guard 1on1 Bargnani (well, a healthy Bargnani)... Kanter is very talented on offense and under the boards and i fear him the most but, still, has a long way to go on difense against Gallo since he has to follow Danilo on the perimeter... the usual problem with italian bigs is the toughness and rebounding skills under the basket, but that's against pretty much every opponent and not just Turkey... :rolleyes:

Pero Antic
02-06-2013, 02:07 PM
http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_wDYZ10kCJ8U3KgH0-Kjye3.articleMode_on.html

this ranking ist total bullshit......Great Britain Sucks MOntenegro overrated as always Macedonia underrated as always this is not gona happen.

turk-jugoslav
02-06-2013, 08:24 PM
Asik is a not-factor on offense, he's a great rebounder and decend defender but i doubt he can guard 1on1 Bargnani (well, a healthy Bargnani)... Kanter is very talented on offense and under the boards and i fear him the most but, still, has a long way to go on difense against Gallo since he has to follow Danilo on the perimeter... the usual problem with italian bigs is the toughness and rebounding skills under the basket, but that's against pretty much every opponent and not just Turkey... :rolleyes:

I totally agree with your statements about Kanter. I must admit that Italy is strong medal contender for 2013.Beside that,you are underrating Ömer Aşık's offensive performance and IMO Italy can do nothing against good frontcourts like Greece, Spain and Lithuania( with Donatas and Jonas) with Bargnani's defense. I am still remembering Bargnani from Kanter and Aşık's match-ups from NBA and both destroyed him at their offenses. He is very weak at defence and as an example,Gasol brohers can easily make +35 together against Barg. :D Italy's biggest problem is weak frontcourt. Others are perfect and you have offensive machines like Gallinari and Bargnani.

Toxicity
02-06-2013, 09:58 PM
I totally agree with your statements about Kanter. I must admit that Italy is strong medal contender for 2013.Beside that,you are underrating Ömer Aşık's offensive performance and IMO Italy can do nothing against good frontcourts like Greece, Spain and Lithuania( with Donatas and Jonas) with Bargnani's defense. I am still remembering Bargnani from Kanter and Aşık's match-ups from NBA and both destroyed him at their offenses. He is very weak at defence and as an example,Gasol brohers can easily make +35 together against Barg. :D Italy's biggest problem is weak frontcourt. Others are perfect and you have offensive machines like Gallinari and Bargnani.

As usual... nothing really new here. I think we have finally a decent Euroleague caliber C in Cusin (even if not consistent and fouls prone) but beyond that we're pretty weak and of course Bargnani will have to play much harder than he usually does (but i'm confident this mediocre season in Toronto will motivate him). I think we have to force other teams to adapt to us... we can play in many different ways... just to remember, we won the game in Turkey last summer playing with Gallinari at C and Datome at PF in the final minutes... and it worked! :)

Terrorizer
02-08-2013, 11:46 PM
No disrespect, but you are delusional if you think that Russia without both Kirilenko and Shved remains the team to beat.

Ok, Kirilenko presence is highly beneficial to the team's confidence and defensive intensity but harmful to variativity of play - overall, a slight plus for the team (in psychological terms a big plus and psychology is one of the Achilles' heel for any Russian team). Shved makes any team he plays a worse one but he is especially atrocious in the NT jerseys. Retarded run-n-gun streetballer with not even a shard of intellect left in his neanderthal brains. He has decent dribbles and can create his own shot but his shot selection is no much better than Bryant's and he hasn't Bryant's offensive prowess - in fact, he is a very streaky shooter. You mentioned that Russia was 3rd in London only due to Shved and Kirilenko. Maybe, you're right - as without Kirilenko and especially Shved we simply must be in finals. Just look at semifinals stats - Shved was 1 out of 6 from the field and Kirilenko was 2 out of 12 with the latter ugly retard missed 5 free throws also. How can you dare to talk about Shved's performance in Olympics is beyond my comprehension because it maybe his worst tournament in years. Once again just look at the statsheet - he made 3.1 turnovers per game, scored only 7 out of 31 attempts from the three-points range before the last game with Argentina (less than one in four), missed more than a half of his free throws (8 out of 14 - how about that for so-called natural born shooter?) and played like a real imbecile which in fact he is. And that's even without talking about his defense. Not only does he look like gay but he also plays like gay. What's the secret with this idiotic Shved? The fact that he had 1 good season in top competition (2011/2012, but even in that season his idiocy was painfully obvious), has contract in NBA and scores some 10 points+ there in shitty Minnesota this season makes you all drooling over this homo-looking retard? A typical player for the shitty NBA team - decent offensive 1-on-1 plays, complete lack of brains, half-assed defense and the habit of forcing things in every possession.


At this point, I'm not even sure who is more important because if there is no Shved, Russia has no reliability and talent at 1. Bykov and Pankrašov is not competition here at elite level. Shved was exactly the reason why Russia was able to step forward in terms of wuality in London.

I won't even argue with that absurdic statement but to call Shved a reliable player is... well, I'm at loss for words. He can shine offensively in some games but 'reliable Shved' sounds like virgin prostitute. Shved is no PG by the way - just a combo guard, mentally much more suited for playing a two. Bykov is similar and he has less offensive prowess than Shved but is much better in defense and luckily is not an idiot. Ponkrashov, while being hugely unstable and getting wasted on CSKA bench, is much better as a floor general than this glamour braindead. Ponkrashov was second in assits in Poland-2009 with 4.9 per game and shared a sixth place in Turkey-2010 with 5.1 assists per game - clearly no competitor at the top level. I have one answer - how many games of Russian national team have you seen in London? Cause this was the tournament where Shved sucked plain and simple aside from the bronze medals game.



You had no world class guard for decades fella and you like it or not Russia without Shved would most likely fall to category of "decent teams"...Russia won 2007 Eurobasket because they had back Russian Holden.

I shall understand you if you wrote 'decade' instead of 'decades', PG instead of 'guard' and by 'world class' understand a player of Prigioni/McCalebb/Spanoulis caliber but as of now your statement looks like another example of pure unadulterated bullshit. Fridzon is no world class? Karasev the elder was no world class? Chikalkin, who was second only to Basile in 'tiro ignorante', was no world class? Even Samoylenko as a PG or Kudelin as a pure shooter were the players of the class which Shved can only dream in vain to become. 'Russia won EuroBasket-2007 due to Holden' statement (similar to 'Oly won EuroLeague only because of Printezis') makes even less sense than 'Russia was in medals in London due to Shved'. Monkey Holden (this characteristics has nothing to do with racism as some of my absolutely fav players are black and as a whole I have a great affinity towards Afro-American people and their struggle against discrimination but Holden just behaved like a monkey on- and most probably off-court and a really retarded one at that) was as stupid as Shved but at least he played some defense yet as a PG (not as a scorer where he was decent) he was an utter failure both in club and in the national team.



Maybe Russia can win the title (which I don't believe) without world class guard (and the only real world calss in your team is Shved), but you better have Kirilenko because fronline will have to do a lot.

Fridzon is hugely better and light years more useful than your girly idol Shved. Fridzon-Bykov-S. Karasev - our SG spot rotation looks very good. We have big problems at the PG as we have a lot of talents (Ponkrashov and Pasha Sergeev are the brightest among them) but they are degrading in the last pair of seasons and none of them looks reliable at the moment. But dumbfuck Shved is no solution to this problem. I hope that I shall never see him again in Europe or in the international competitions but this hope is sadly slim.



Actually except Shved no-one in Russia can make his own shot in the clutch time. Even Kirilenko is not that type of a player. It was Shved who nailed some extremely important individual shots in Olympics and it was Holden who won the final for Russia...
Which ones? Aside from one game (yes, important game but still it was a lone one in which Shved didn't suck) for the bronze medals? It was Shved who shot a game-winning buzzer-beater against Brazil in recent Olympics! It was Shved who was crucial in the thriller win against Spain in the group stage there! It was Shved who shined in another hard-fought game - quarterfinals against Lietuva! Just look up here: http://london2012.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/12/olym/p/eid/6232/gid/A/grid/68/rid/9103/sid/6232/game.html#BUKWA_P4 What a clutch performance - especially around one minute left mark in the fourth quarter! And do you remember those crazy Shved's last-second three-pointers from the last EuroBasket - against Slovenia (where Shved really shined in the tense fourth quarter) and against Macedonia? Fucking Shved is fucking clutch! The only clutch player in the mediocre Russian NT! Where they will be without him and Kirilenko? Eliminated in the first group stage, I guess :)

Well, it seems that your knowledege of the Russian NT is greatly limited for reasons unknown, so just like your compatriots gave me an advice not to write about Lithuanian basketball in such a confident tone, I also shall tell you - не знаешь? не пиши! which roughly translates as 'you don't need to write on topics with which you aren't familiar'.

JPF, I think that you exaggerating the home factor in this kind of tournaments. Just remember Belgrad-2005 and Lithuania-2011 - those recent EuroBaskets played in the tough home surroundings. How do the host teams and other teams from neighbouring countries did in those tournaments? Italy has a solid roster, I agree, but if they will overplay their NBAers (two of whom are black holes in defense) like they did in Lithuania then they are doomed.

Joško Poljak Fan
02-09-2013, 12:16 PM
Not really exaggerating. You can notice quite some adjectives "cooling down" the heat if you'll read my post carefully once again.
To me the last version of Lithuanian NT was mediocre at best with their talent, as much as I like and respect their basketball they were pretty much like Slovenia the last championship, overperforming due to fans once again. Lack of any extra quality to reckon... and that's not a pickup line to quote me and explain how talented Valanciunas is (as I am sure the idea occured to quite few readers of this post). If it wasn't for the home court the results would actually be even worse. As for Serbia in 2005 that collapse was just waiting to happen and many predicted it right after the preparation stage ended. Although I think you were pretty sloppy reading my post as I believe I've made myself pretty clear with: "If some of them find theirself in more than just "a decent shape" they're becoming the favorites for the medals much faster than the ussual."

There are numerous examples where the crowd, didn't neccesarily bring the team a championship, but enabled the path to at leas fight for it. While if you think playing in Koper in front of 5000 Italians would feel any different than playing in Sassari, Livorno or Pesaro, I guess you're wrong :)

turk-jugoslav
02-09-2013, 09:50 PM
As usual... nothing really new here. I think we have finally a decent Euroleague caliber C in Cusin (even if not consistent and fouls prone) but beyond that we're pretty weak and of course Bargnani will have to play much harder than he usually does (but i'm confident this mediocre season in Toronto will motivate him). I think we have to force other teams to adapt to us... we can play in many different ways... just to remember, we won the game in Turkey last summer playing with Gallinari at C and Datome at PF in the final minutes... and it worked! :)

hmm, you won the match that you mentioned but it is not good comparison becuz you had no Bargnani, we had no Kanter and Aşık. Actually we probably won't play with Kanter in next summer:) I just meant that Italy could become medal contender with offensive power of barg.-gall. but my final prediction is spain-russia.

Straight forward
02-10-2013, 12:50 AM
Terrorizer, first of all Russia would be completely different without both Shved an Kirilenko. You yelling about knock out game of Olympics. You probably wouldn't be there. Shved is not a perfect player, I never said that he is, but he's the best guard you have, live with that. Best players must take their shots and must be intense, that's how it worked and will work (3 TOs? :rolleyes:). Shved might be a chucker at times, I agree, but no-one is even near by ability to creat for others and for him selve. Even Fridzon who is very good player, I like him, can't create, as simple as that, can't control the tempo, can't take the game in his hands. Your hate of Shved is childish. Shved is most gifted Russia's guard by far and IQ wise as well (that will be more and more obvious with time, as he is still young).

Victorious
02-10-2013, 10:20 PM
We shouldn't forget that the next Eurobasket is in Slovenia which means that Italy, and some bordering ex Yugoslav countries like Croatia and Serbia will be playing practically at home.

pohani komarac
02-10-2013, 10:33 PM
We shouldn't forget that the next Eurobasket is in Slovenia which means that Italy, and some bordering ex Yugoslav countries like Croatia and Serbia will be playing practically at home.

Croatia no, atleast not at begnig...Maybe if they show promise trough tournamet, but this days pople dont give fuck abot national basketball team

Rest ex yu teams yes...Especially B&H since there is huge Bosnian population in that city where they will play.....But police must be redy to for this event to.

And Italy should have good base of fans at eurobasket to

Straight forward
02-18-2013, 03:37 PM
Power Rankings 2 edition: http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_CbIs-d5aHUYiIwLgkI7zB0.articleMode_on.html

Hyping up Slovenia before the event is not the best way to help them. Slovenia had way more intriquing rosters to underperform in the past and leaving them in the safe and respectable 5-8 spots would be reasonable in my opinion, no matter the fact Udrih and some youngsters might give them a lot.

I would be amazingly suprised if Calderon would play in Eurobasket 2013, so the argument is pretty weak for Spain this time. Mentioning slow, but britghful comeback of Rubio would make more sense.

I missed Kalnietis' late strong performances in Lithuanian section, while N. Calathes mentioned for the Greece.

I found all Montenegro, Italy and Turkey a little bit weird in front of Serbia and Croatia. Despite the feeling that Montenegro might be really good this time, Serbia and Croatia still way more fundamental European teams and more consistent.

pohani komarac
02-18-2013, 03:39 PM
Rumours say Bobby Brown will play for Montenegro

MZT Skopje
02-18-2013, 04:26 PM
http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_wDYZ10kCJ8U3KgH0-Kjye3.articleMode_on.html

this ranking ist total bullshit......Great Britain Sucks MOntenegro overrated as always Macedonia underrated as always this is not gona happen.

Montenegro is a good team, have no clue what you talk about.

The day Macedonia are favorite thats the day we will lose for sure. Underdog style suits our team just like 2007, 2009, 2011. We can not play with pressure.

My guess is that we will beat Bosnia as useal, Latvia too. Lithuania suits us very welll we beat them 2011 but also 2012. So 2-0 Macedonia against Lithuania.

We will lose against Serbia and Montenegro so key game against Lithuania.

But the group is very strong. Greek lobist who else. Macedonia are getting Serbia (Medal contender) from the 6th seeding.

MZT Skopje
02-18-2013, 04:35 PM
GREECE:I agree with Straight forward.After the BIIIIIIIIG fiasko in the OQT in the summer,Greece MUST take a medal,if she wants to be in the best european teams.I believe she can do it of course with the same roster with the previous season,but better coaches(Giannakis,Blatt,Obradovic) and better preperation.
RUSSIA:I have a bad enstict for them.I am not sure what they are capable to do.
TURKEY:If they manage to escape from this Group,I recognise them!!!!!!
FYROM:No hope!!They will fight with Latvia for the 5th position in the Group.The fairy-taile finished in Venezuela and now it is going to be completed.
FRANCE:If finally have luck,they will take a medal.
SWEDEN:No comment.Basically,no win,-1000000000 goal average
FINLAND:Surpise!!!!!!


Venezuela wos a joke for Macedonia. But dude be realistic. Players tired after long season but also 7 days preperations are way to littel, 2 days need for time acclimatization.

We have no superstars but our strength is that we play as a team and have plad with same players for long time so they know each other inside out on the court. And that is worth more than a super star. Macedonia will be dangerous again count on it.

Straight forward
02-18-2013, 05:30 PM
Rumours say Bobby Brown will play for Montenegro

This is becoming really pathetic. It ruins all the spirit of FIBA tournaments. I will never really respect teams that naturalizing players.

Mindozas
02-18-2013, 05:37 PM
This is becoming really pathetic. It ruins all the spirit of FIBA tournaments. I will never really respect teams that naturalizing players.

Now we can only hope that FIBA won't allow 2 naturalized players per NT... I heared they are (or hopefully already were) thinking about it. If I recall correctly, there were times, not that long ago, when in European clubs competitions only 2 foreigners were allowed :rolleyes: Really shame

pohani komarac
02-18-2013, 06:31 PM
To early for predictions, but I'm wating for Cibona so I have some time to write some b...s..t:D

1.Spain....with full rooster clear favorite. Without goldenboys they are not without chances to take it all as they still have Rubio, Rudy, M. Gasol and Ibaka or Mirotic + some solid players in Llull, San Em., Vasquez (P. Gasol's bitch), Suarez...Depends on how good they will be coached

2. France with full roster (Parker and Noah)....without them they are still good, but not big favorite

3. Russia.....without AK thir chances are less good, but despite all hate from Terrorrizer Shved is big key for this team as he is only guy who can create things and despite nut being tru PG he can handle that position and must since Russia lack of PG badly

4. Greece....Despite some crisis in results, Greece still has clear top 4 roosters in Europe

5. Slovenia...They are host, so they will do well. I'm sure, becuse Slovenians play great at home and still has very good roster. Imo Maljkovic does not fit their rooster. Dragic, Udrih and Blazic can beat any defense in drive, so Maljkovic slower basketball does not fit their guards. They need more Spanish like basketball, fast agresive drive and kick with lot of outside shoots

6. Montenegro (if they hire B. Brown). They have monster big man rotation in Pekovic, Vucevic and Dubljevic + solid Bjelica and Dragicevic (there were some rumours they might bring back Mirotic, but I don't belive in Santa) they only need get rid of Dasic. Bobby is what they need, more then Cook (Rochestie, not good) as they need some scorer. Ivanovic is to young, wille other outside players Mihailovic, popovic, Sehovic bros. are only athletic defenders, spot up shooters and strght lane drivers so Bobby would it them like face slap fits idiot. Withot bobby, they are just averge team with good bigs

7. Serbia....key for them is their coach ego wich I don't trust. Duda realy needs call players such as Micov without whoo Serbia lacks of depth and is forced to play with bad players suc as Paunic

8. Italy....With Diner they could score 300pts per game with their scoring potential. now NBA-ers finaly have some help around. Key is somebody needs explain Delineli he is not Jordan and low post defense

9.. Lithuania....I assume they are bit changing generation so it will take some time, especially to find PG as Kalnietis just is not level. Potential is there, but they need find replacment for Saras

10. Israel...pretty much they could make best team in their history, but desperetley missing center

11. Turkey...their guards just dont go along with bigs. Tuncheri only one with some high level game. So without Hedeo their cration is in hands of poor man Hedo emir Preldzic, wich is like give nuke bomb in hands of clown. Not promising situation.

12. GB....overall that team full roster even has medal potential, but they lacked plamaking and discipline so far. Hope to se Van Oostrum in big role. He is so fun to watch and huge prospect that just needs to click it to be star

13. Poland...nice team overall for them, rasing evrey year. Still must wait 93. boys to mature

14. Germany....They are changing generation and have lot of potential (togh no Dirk level player), still to young....even it's would not be first time Pesic, one of my favorite makes huge surpise (atleast to me)

15. Czech Republic.....geting back on basketball map. Nice mix of expiriance of Welch and Barton and yuth in Satoransky (big favorite of him), Vesely, Jelinek, Balvin, Kudlachek. + some decent Nymburk boys And they will stay on Eurobasketlevel with nice future as they show promis in yuth categoris. Very glad for them

16. Bosnia and Herzegovina....can be nightmare for anyone with Aco Petrovic jack 3's tactics and Mirza "3poit" Teletovic on crazy shooting day. Also we eill se who will they be abele to bring back to thei flag. They will also have "home court"...I would not be supres if they make surprise and even make to QF in weak draw, but they lack of depth and have bad coach

17. Georgia....they have nice potential, bu very unstable team with not good coach

18. Macedonia...well so far rumors say lot plays won't play, so cindarella isabout to end.....With full roster they might make something, but no semifanals for sure

19.. Latvia...so sad such basketball countrie doing so bad for so many years. Always had few nice players, but never anuff depth in recet years. Hope better in future for them.

20. Finland...Getting better and better in in basketball and is well coached team. Imo, they still lack of qualty and depth

21. Ukraine...Few decent bigs, that's it

21. Bulgaria

22. Sweden...Imo, seeing lot of Swedish kids in Spain doing well so there is nice future for them, just not now

23. Belgium

Not rated. Croatia...Some players performance in EL give me some hope, but so far evrything is unknown. Not even who will coach our team, let alone who will play. One thing is sure. If Draper, Anderson or LeBron James will be in team I won't waste my money for trip to Slovenia to watch Basketball Club Croatia.

pohani komarac
02-18-2013, 06:32 PM
This is becoming really pathetic. It ruins all the spirit of FIBA tournaments. I will never really respect teams that naturalizing players.

Agree

MZT Skopje
02-18-2013, 07:18 PM
18. Macedonia...well so far rumors say lot plays won't play, so cindarella isabout to end.....With full roster they might make something, but no semifanals for sure




Agree no semifial this time no matter who plays. But quarterfinals or top 12 is more than possible actually and is not a poor result for us. One can not underestimate the fact that we have a team that playd for long time together thats importent on team sport.

Well Bo Makaleb and Pero Antic did give green light 2 weeks ago: http://www.mkd.mk/95320/sport/direktorot-merdzanovski-od-atina-antic-i-mekejleb-so-netrpenie-go-ocekuvaat-nastapot-za-makedonija/

And Ilievski did give green light last night: http://www.ekipa.mk/News.aspx?newsId=15080

Gecevski too.

So Ales Pipan is happy.

Not sure how much playing time he will have this time, not the same Vlado anymore. Maybe 20 min not more.

On the other hand Aleksandar Kostoski who allways wos a tealent exploded this year, 17 PPG in BIBL and 22 PPG in Macedonia. He will sight with Alba Berlin this summer. Since Kumanovo wants to win BIBL.

Roster will be:

Makaleb (Fenerbache)
Gecevski (MZT)
Antic (C) (Olympiakos)
Damjan Stojanovski (MZT)
Vojdan Stojanovski (BC Donesk)
Samadrzitski (Red Star)
Cekovski (MZT)
Ilievski (Cedevita)
Nikolovski (MZT)
Kostoski (Kumanovo/Alba Berlin)
Ivica Dimcevski (Kumanovo)
Riste Stefanov (no clubb at the moment but has playd for clubs such as Union, Besiktas, AEK, Lukoil).

So we might even be stronger on paper this time with Kostoski and return of Stefenov. Bigger rotation for sure.

Toxicity
02-18-2013, 08:26 PM
8. Italy....With Diner they could score 300pts per game with their scoring potential. now NBA-ers finaly have some help around. Key is somebody needs explain Delineli he is not Jordan and low post defense


LOL...

That somebody is Pianigiani and nobody else but i'm confident he will (or bench him)... with Diener we have maybe too much players who like to hold the ball in their hands but if Pianigiani can somehow find a chemistry... watch out.

pohani komarac
02-18-2013, 10:15 PM
LOL...

That somebody is Pianigiani and nobody else but i'm confident he will (or bench him)... with Diener we have maybe too much players who like to hold the ball in their hands but if Pianigiani can somehow find a chemistry... watch out.

i didn't mean literally

rikhardur
02-18-2013, 10:49 PM
Now we can only hope that FIBA won't allow 2 naturalized players per NT... I heared they are (or hopefully already were) thinking about it. If I recall correctly, there were times, not that long ago, when in European clubs competitions only 2 foreigners were allowed :rolleyes: Really shame
So, Spain's dream of putting both Ibaka and Mirotić on the floor is closer to becoming true :rolleyes:
It's pathetic..,. What's the point of having national teams then? If they are becoming more like clubs? Makes no sense at all.

Pero Antic
02-18-2013, 11:13 PM
Agree no semifial this time no matter who plays. But quarterfinals or top 12 is more than possible actually and is not a poor result for us. One can not underestimate the fact that we have a team that playd for long time together thats importent on team sport.

Well Bo Makaleb and Pero Antic did give green light 2 weeks ago: http://www.mkd.mk/95320/sport/direktorot-merdzanovski-od-atina-antic-i-mekejleb-so-netrpenie-go-ocekuvaat-nastapot-za-makedonija/

And Ilievski did give green light last night: http://www.ekipa.mk/News.aspx?newsId=15080

Gecevski too.

So Ales Pipan is happy.

Not sure how much playing time he will have this time, not the same Vlado anymore. Maybe 20 min not more.

On the other hand Aleksandar Kostoski who allways wos a tealent exploded this year, 17 PPG in BIBL and 22 PPG in Macedonia. He will sight with Alba Berlin this summer. Since Kumanovo wants to win BIBL.

Roster will be:

Makaleb (Fenerbache)
Gecevski (MZT)
Antic (C) (Olympiakos)
Damjan Stojanovski (MZT)
Vojdan Stojanovski (BC Donesk)
Samadrzitski (Red Star)
Cekovski (MZT)
Ilievski (Cedevita)
Nikolovski (MZT)
Kostoski (Kumanovo/Alba Berlin)
Ivica Dimcevski (Kumanovo)
Riste Stefanov (no clubb at the moment but has playd for clubs such as Union, Besiktas, AEK, Lukoil).

So we might even be stronger on paper this time with Kostoski and return of Stefenov. Bigger rotation for sure.

Riste Stefanov? No way there is no chance him returning instead i really hope Ogjnen Stojanovski the third brother gets a call up because he is the right guy if Bo, Vlado ilievski and Vojdan are tired and we have a fourth good playmaker option.

Probably the best Macedonian Team ever.......and know they have expierence too

JRS Bonnet
02-19-2013, 01:57 AM
Just a few remarks on Pohani Komarac’s post


10. Israel...pretty much they could make best team in their history, but desperetley missing center

Israel had a great qualification campaign with Alex Tyus as their starting center (12.6 pts, 6.8 reb, 1.4 blk).


11. Turkey...their guards just dont go along with bigs. Tuncheri only one with some high level game. So without Hedeo their cration is in hands of poor man Hedo emir Preldzic, wich is like give nuke bomb in hands of clown. Not promising situation.

I know I’ve been trashing Turkey’s PGs in this thread but… what if Bariş Ermiş is the real deal?


12. GB....overall that team full roster even has medal potential

Luol Deng will not be in Slovenia.

Link: http://www.talkbasket.net/7575-deng-to-skip-eurobasket.html

Shawshank
02-23-2013, 02:37 PM
6. Montenegro (if they hire B. Brown). They have monster big man rotation in Pekovic, Vucevic and Dubljevic + solid Bjelica and Dragicevic (there were some rumours they might bring back Mirotic, but I don't belive in Santa) they only need get rid of Dasic. Bobby is what they need, more then Cook (Rochestie, not good) as they need some scorer. Ivanovic is to young, wille other outside players Mihailovic, popovic, Sehovic bros. are only athletic defenders, spot up shooters and strght lane drivers so Bobby would it them like face slap fits idiot. Withot bobby, they are just averge team with good bigs

7. Serbia....key for them is their coach ego wich I don't trust. Duda realy needs call players such as Micov without whoo Serbia lacks of depth and is forced to play with bad players suc as Paunic

8. Italy....With Diner they could score 300pts per game with their scoring potential. now NBA-ers finaly have some help around. Key is somebody needs explain Delineli he is not Jordan and low post defense

9.. Lithuania....I assume they are bit changing generation so it will take some time, especially to find PG as Kalnietis just is not level. Potential is there, but they need find replacment for Saras



all of those 3 teams you ranked higher than us,if we gonna play them i would bet on my team we gonna win against them.Our team is not changing any generation,we just said goodbye to 3 veterans(that didnt even play in 2010) and 9 players will be back from 2012 + motiejunas,gecevicius,kuzminskas and hopefully still have javtokas defence in the middle.Our 1985 generation owns teodosic serbias youngsters in this decade and brainless italy with leader like bargnani and belineli has small chances outplaying our team game.Montenegro? im not sure they gonna survive group B...About our pointguard position our federation said without even thinking we wont naturalize anybody,we gonna play with our guys.In that position Kalnietis is like 2 heads above any other guard from lithuania,so Mantas will be main pointgurad for Lithuania in all of this olimpic circle.He is not something special,but atleast i believe that he can play lithuania basketball style and this is the most important thing for me.Yes he will have problems in positional game,but he should be able to pass the ball in the middle to valanciunas or kleiza .But no pointguard in europe wants to play fastbreak game with Mantas.

Shawshank
02-23-2013, 02:49 PM
A: 1.France 2.Israel 3.Great Britain very weak group,france gonna have easy time...the only good thing is for B group teams,after war in B group,you will get easier opponents,than in the first round :)
B: 1.Serbia 2.Lithuania 3.anybody...This group i have a feeling maybe even stronger than group D.All those ex-jugoslavian countries knows how to play basketball and they are very tough mentally.Opening night game Serbia vs Lithuania will be game of the first day.I suspect team that will lose it,will have tough road getting out of the group.I think all those little brothers of serbia will try to knocked them down,similiar as latvia is playing against lithuania always very motivated and usually well...
C: 1.Spain 2.Slovenia 3.Croatia finnally it comes time,when one of the slovenia/croatia have to win a medal.Because with such tallent and dont have a single medal in 15 years is ridiculuos...even without gasol and navarro spain still have alot of tallent.
D: 1.Greece 2.Turkey 3.Russia .I have a feeling russia will have alot of presure in this tournament,they won 2 medals in a row,they lost 2 very important things blatt and kirilenko this week anounces he wont play in eurobasket2013.I always felt russia with kirilenka and without him,is 2 different teams.Without kirilenko russia wont win a medal im sure about that.But without him they should be carefull not have a disaster in 2013...Greece and turkey teams looks very strong on paper.Italy and finland can become dark horses,that knocks down one of 3 main favorites in this group.

Group E : 1.France 2.Lithuania 3.Serbia 4.somebody from group B
Group F : 1.Spain 2.Greece 3.Slovenia 4.wow impossible to predict....This group F gonna be way stronger than group E...Because all 6 F teams is top8 material...


If i look from my countries prospect.The main thing is to get top3 in tough group B.Than its obviuos we gonna make 1/4 game.I dont believe that one dimensional teams like israel or germany can knocks us out.

In 1/4 game the only 2 teams im affraid is France (is not possible) and Spain.Againts other we have atleast 50/50 game.We have good results in the past against F group teams like slovenia,croatia,greece.Russia without kirilenko is not same,turkey is home team.

LAst 2 years we lost 2 close 1/4 games against macedonia and russia,and history says lithuania isnt loosing 3 years in a row 1/4 game.We have kazlauskas back and this very important factor(especially if we gonna play greece :) ).All the previuos 3 tournaments when we changed our coaches we won medals in the first tournament with new voice in the loockeroom (2003 sireika, 2007 butautas,2010 kemzura).After all that presure playing at home in 2011,i have feeling our players will suprise many and signs says its gonna be good tournament for Lithuania.I loved the fact than i can see in this forum,how foreigners looks at lithuanias chances.Our biggest wins came when nobody were talking about us.

Lietuva 2013

Kalnietis,Delininkaitis
Pocius,Seibutis,Gecevicius (or Kuzminskas)
Maciulis,Jasaitis
Kleiza,Jankunas,Motiejunas
Valanciunas,Javtokas (10 of these players are bronze winners of 2010 WC)

Coach Jonas Kazlauskas

This is deep solid team,that plays together as unit.I have a feeling we can suprise many basketball fans in 2013 summer.

Jafreeze
02-23-2013, 10:36 PM
I see the favorites as Spain, Greece, and Slovenia. Assuming Spain does not have a different team, which is probably will. But we don't really know what their team will look like. I am going to give Slovenia and Greece the benefit of the doubt. Greece had bad results by their standards lately, but they finally have a really good coach and you cannot question their players, which are top 3 in the world.

Slovenia are underachievers and chokers, but I think I will give the benefit of the doubt to them that it will be really tough to beat them at their home soil. If Spain does not have Calderon, Pau, Navarro, which very probably they might not, then I think chances for the gold are best with Slovenia and Greece.

Straight forward
02-23-2013, 11:22 PM
I see the favorites as Spain, Greece, and Slovenia. Assuming Spain does not have a different team, which is probably will. But we don't really know what their team will look like. I am going to give Slovenia and Greece the benefit of the doubt. Greece had bad results by their standards lately, but they finally have a really good coach and you cannot question their players, which are top 3 in the world.

Slovenia are underachievers and chokers, but I think I will give the benefit of the doubt to them that it will be really tough to beat them at their home soil. If Spain does not have Calderon, Pau, Navarro, which very probably they might not, then I think chances for the gold are best with Slovenia and Greece.

If Greece will have full roster than they surely medal and maybe even title contender, but to say they are top 3 in the world is very brave :) They did nothing in Olympics for decades. And even having Agrentina and Lithuania far from what it used to be, I think Russia and France have stronger rosters on the paper - and actual results says the last word and they are not in favor for Greece to claim such thing.

Toxicity
02-23-2013, 11:29 PM
and brainless italy with leader like bargnani and belineli has small chances outplaying our team game.

Bargnani and Belinelli didn't play last summer and it's not so sure they will be both in Slovenia... if i have to pick a leader i'd say Gallinari for his overall impact on the team and Hackett for his iron will and character... btw i hope with Diener we acquire a good brain as well. :)

Straight forward
02-24-2013, 04:08 PM
6 Eurobasket teams qualify for WC 2014. Since Spain already qualified (as hosts), does it make 5 places for Eurobasket or Spain doesn't count?

Also, there are 4 wildcards...

pohani komarac
02-24-2013, 04:23 PM
6 Eurobasket teams qualify for WC 2014. Since Spain already qualified (as hosts), does it make 5 places for Eurobasket or Spain doesn't count?

Also, there are 4 wildcards...

6 places

Jafreeze
02-24-2013, 07:34 PM
If Greece will have full roster than they surely medal and maybe even title contender, but to say they are top 3 in the world is very brave :) They did nothing in Olympics for decades. And even having Agrentina and Lithuania far from what it used to be, I think Russia and France have stronger rosters on the paper - and actual results says the last word and they are not in favor for Greece to claim such thing.

I didn't say Greece was a top 3 team in the world. I said their players were top 3 in the world, which is true.

Jon_Koncak
02-24-2013, 09:21 PM
A top 3 team in talent doesnt lose against Nigeria.Besides saying that Greece is top 3 in talent (after Usa n Spain i guess) is like saying Western Samoa is top 3 basketball national team in Oceania.Know what i mean?

Straight forward
02-24-2013, 10:49 PM
Kirilenko most likely to retire. That's a huge blow for Russia. And I agree with Kirilenko that Russia's future will depend a lot on Shved and Karasev in longer run.

"[We can all] agree that it would happen sooner or later.

"Especially now in the team it's time for young leaders [to step up], like (Alexey) Shved, (Sergey) Karasev and others".

Shawshank
02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
I didn't say Greece was a top 3 team in the world. I said their players were top 3 in the world, which is true.

O dont buy this.Let say Usa and Spain is clearly better.But I dont see in what positions Greece had better players lets say than France or Brasil? But neither of 3 star teams could win medal in 2012.Its not about players you have,its about how they play together as unit.Greece on paper looks really strong,but when you faced them its different story.They are playing hard nose defence game,but poor and predictable offensive game.Usually we are killing them by 3pointers :)

Peace
02-28-2013, 09:39 AM
I know I’ve been trashing Turkey’s PGs in this thread but… what if Bariş Ermiş is the real deal?





Many people in forum say Bariş Ermiş is the best PG at the moment in Turkey:D

PG- Ender arslan(83), Engin atsur(84), Dogus balbay(89), Safak edge(92), Kenan sipahi(95)

Victorious
02-28-2013, 10:34 AM
O dont buy this.Let say Usa and Spain is clearly better.But I dont see in what positions Greece had better players lets say than France or Brasil? But neither of 3 star teams could win medal in 2012.Its not about players you have,its about how they play together as unit.Greece on paper looks really strong,but when you faced them its different story.They are playing hard nose defence game,but poor and predictable offensive game.Usually we are killing them by 3pointers :)

A whole generation of players changed when Lithuania used to beat Greece with 3 pointers. These are different players with different styles of play.

As for Greece having the third best roster in the world. Actually I don't find that very important. Until 2009 Greek basketball has always been about teamplay rather than individual talent, but ever since the team has been filled with stars Greece has been under performing. Many players declined invitations and some players thought they could win games by their individual talent. This resulted into predictable plays and bad defense. Talented rosters don't guarantee good results. Even team USA found that out the hard way.

The biggest challenge for coach Trinchieri is to take these Greek players and make them a cohesive unit once again.

pimpekaustas
03-09-2013, 01:56 PM
did spain ever won any medal without paul gasol?

i thin croatia is underrated, this year we can be good. france looks best on paper

rikhardur
03-09-2013, 07:06 PM
did spain ever won any medal without paul gasol?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_national_basketball_team#Medal_record

pimpekaustas
03-09-2013, 07:52 PM
ofcourse i meant during the paul gasols years, and the answer is no it seems. they played only two times without him, 2005 and 2010 and didnt won medal. that are only championships in the last ohoho years they didnt won medal

Straight forward
03-11-2013, 10:23 PM
http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_b,NPKondGw2Yn-p,w3uIP0.articleMode_on.html

4th ranking edition.

pimpekaustas
03-12-2013, 12:24 PM
montenegro is overrated. they cant play with 5 centers :)

Victorious
03-12-2013, 04:07 PM
Shouldn't this thread be on the "Eurobasket 2013" section?

rikhardur
03-13-2013, 02:44 AM
Shouldn't this thread be on the "Eurobasket 2013" section?
Done :) More threads will be moved in the future.

rocketstar47
03-13-2013, 03:45 AM
Top 5
1. Spain
2. France
3. Slovenia
4. Lithuania
5. Turkey

darkhorses
greece
bosnia and herzegovina
croatia
serbia
macedonia
italy

Straight forward
03-13-2013, 10:30 AM
Top 5
1. Spain
2. France
3. Slovenia
4. Lithuania
5. Turkey

darkhorses
greece
bosnia and herzegovina
croatia
serbia
macedonia
italy

Turkey is not top 5 material. I'm not saying that they can't reach it, but it's just that they don't have that stability and reliability to put them up so high. Their place should be covered by Greece and and Russia.

Since Russia is about to lose some key players and I don't see how Spain wouldn't, France looks like the most complete team if all players come. Spain is questionable without Pau and Navarro.
And now Slovenia's chances make more sense. Two NBA players (one of them very succesful) in the backourt is the comfort few teams can live with.

euskadi
03-13-2013, 02:48 PM
...neither is lithuania... :o

Straight forward
03-13-2013, 04:24 PM
...neither is lithuania... :o

(you might be right, but just for discussion and for the sake of some values I'll have to disagree with you)

Since when? Which team, maybe aside from Spain, is more consistent in Eurobasket's history since 1992?

If you don't like historical motive - I just don't see how Lithuania 2013 (with Kleiza, Motiejunas, Valančiūnas, Mačiulis) might be worse than Lithuania 2011 (with few solid veterans and 19 yo Valančiūnas as the brightest spot of the tournament). Yet we still finished 5th in the high quality Eurobasket. Theoretically, it's easy to project Lithuania 2013 as top 5 (and specially when it seems there won't be any teams to BEAT). At least for me :)

euskadi
03-13-2013, 05:33 PM
(you might be right, but just for discussion and for the sake of some values I'll have to disagree with you)

Since when? Which team, maybe aside from Spain, is more consistent in Eurobasket's history since 1992?

If you don't like historical motive - I just don't see how Lithuania 2013 (with Kleiza, Motiejunas, Valančiūnas, Mačiulis) might be worse than Lithuania 2011 (with few solid veterans and 19 yo Valančiūnas as the brightest spot of the tournament). Yet we still finished 5th in the high quality Eurobasket. Theoretically, it's easy to project Lithuania 2013 as top 5 (and specially when it seems there won't be any teams to BEAT). At least for me :)

5th place with home court advantage is not something to brag nor defeat in 1/4 finals. maybe i am to subjective because i don't like this lithuania team... i love lithuanian basketball, i love lithuanian bball history. i grow up watching brilliant guards like sarunas, arvydas, ramunas, rimantas... so watching 2013. lithuania guard lineup makes me sad. pocius and gecevicius are 12th players in real/oly rotation, delinikaitis is in some average ukrainian team. kalnietis and seibutis are only notable guards yet nothing more then solid players.

imo, france, spain, slovenia ( home court ) and greece are best teams in eb 2013. jonas, kleiza, maciulis and motiejunas is solid core. but good enough to be rock solid top 5? better then shved, khrijapa, fridzon, monia, karasev... better then teodosic, krstic, bjelica and micov, better then pekovic, vucevic, dubljevic maybe brown, better then bargnani, gallinari, bellineli, diener, aradori... better then planinic, tomic, bogdanovic, ukic, popovic, saric... not sure.


valanciunas, motiejunas and kuzminkas are great prospects but unproven international players. not yet ready to lead lithuanian team. and i don't see kleiza plays so sick like 3 years ago.

Shawshank
03-13-2013, 05:39 PM
...neither is lithuania... :o

basically you are right.Turkey or Greece that didnt was mentione in that top5 have same or even more tallent that lithuania has.But we never had best teams by tallent(nobody was consider us in 2000,2003,2010 to be top 4 by tallent before tournament),but i want to repeat usa coach Mike Krzyzewski words: nobody puts so much heart on basketball court as lithuanians does.When you play game of basketball like that and have some tallent in your team--> you will always have a chance :)

pohani komarac
03-13-2013, 05:47 PM
I think at this moment there are no top-5 teams...we need to wait roosters


it's only march and players alredy canceling NT's day by day....And sine this is not Olypic qualys we will have load of absentes

Nowitzki
Kaman (no Dirk, No Kaman)
AK
Kaun?
Gasol
Navarro
Reyes?
Calderon?
Gortat?

and it's just start, unfortunally

basketball becoming primadona only sport:mad:

Straight forward
03-13-2013, 05:57 PM
5th place with home court advantage is not something to brag nor defeat in 1/4 finals. maybe i am to subjective because i don't like this lithuania team... i love lithuanian basketball, i love lithuanian bball history. i grow up watching brilliant guards like sarunas, arvydas, ramunas, rimantas... so watching 2013. lithuania guard lineup makes me sad. pocius and gecevicius are 12th players in real/oly rotation, delinikaitis is in some average ukrainian team. kalnietis and seibutis are only notable guards yet nothing more then solid players.

imo, france, spain, slovenia ( home court ) and greece are best teams in eb 2013. jonas, kleiza, maciulis and motiejunas is solid core. but good enough to be rock solid top 5? better then shved, khrijapa, fridzon, monia, karasev... better then teodosic, krstic, bjelica and micov, better then pekovic, vucevic, dubljevic maybe brown, better then bargnani, gallinari, bellineli, diener, aradori... better then planinic, tomic, bogdanovic, ukic, popovic, saric... not sure.


valanciunas, motiejunas and kuzminkas are great prospects but unproven international players. not yet ready to lead lithuanian team. and i don't see kleiza plays so sick like 3 years ago.

You make some good points here. At the moment Lithuania is a little bit unpredictable. We don't have any stars in the backcourt. BUT, Lithuania (as Shawshank noticed) usually compensate the lack of world class players in particular positions by team spirit, team working culture, determination, motivation. Most of players playing even better at NT level than they do in the clubs (Kleiza openly said he doesn't regret about the injury as 2010 WC was something special for him). Pocius is different player in the NT. Besides, you never know what these "prospects" will bring as they are playing at the high level already. Eurobasket won't be higher level for them, rather contrary.

So Lithuania might underperform because of young age, but they might even be better than most people expect. The upside is here even with mediocre backourt.

Planinič and Marco Popovič is up to play for Croatia?

Shawshank
03-13-2013, 06:07 PM
5th place with home court advantage is not something to brag nor defeat in 1/4 finals. maybe i am to subjective because i don't like this lithuania team... i love lithuanian basketball, i love lithuanian bball history. i grow up watching brilliant guards like sarunas, arvydas, ramunas, rimantas... so watching 2013. lithuania guard lineup makes me sad. pocius and gecevicius are 12th players in real/oly rotation, delinikaitis is in some average ukrainian team. kalnietis and seibutis are only notable guards yet nothing more then solid players.

imo, france, spain, slovenia ( home court ) and greece are best teams in eb 2013. jonas, kleiza, maciulis and motiejunas is solid core. but good enough to be rock solid top 5? better then shved, khrijapa, fridzon, monia, karasev... better then teodosic, krstic, bjelica and micov, better then pekovic, vucevic, dubljevic maybe brown, better then bargnani, gallinari, bellineli, diener, aradori... better then planinic, tomic, bogdanovic, ukic, popovic, saric... not sure.


valanciunas, motiejunas and kuzminkas are great prospects but unproven international players. not yet ready to lead lithuanian team. and i don't see kleiza plays so sick like 3 years ago.

that 5th place wasnt right one.We were better and are better than macedonia.I can agree that spain,france,russia in 2011 were better teams.But not macedonia we were leading 65-61 1 minutes left and lost by ourselfs.We were leading all 40minutes in that game.But sport is beatifull just because there are some upsets.In 2011-2012 Lithuania were 4th strongest team in europe by shown results when 99% best europe players played.. and everyone knows that in EB 2013 atleast 1/3 of those best europe players wont play...

We didnt play beatifull,but still we won against : turkey,germany,greece,slovenia in eb 2011.Ofcourse all team has up and down,and right now we arent so impressive by tallent,but you cant rule us out just because of that.Because when we are untirestimated,we are bringing our best game.

Our guard line with Kalnietis,Delininkaitis,Pocius,Seibutis,Gecevicius isnt anything special i agree,but still solid 5 euroleague level players,that can play 15- 20minutes in average euroleague team like unicaja or zalgiris .Btw i always thought the best of those5 are Pocius by tallent.He is in bad team with fernandez and lull so dont gets minutes,but im sure he can have 10pts average in euroleague if he would get minutes.
How they play right now its look poor guard line no doubt,but there is some but...When put game on gecevicius he averaged like 14 pts a game in euroleague...pocius and kalnietis in zalgiris were avereging about 10pts in euroleague,seibutis this year averages 15 pts in euroleague for rytas.They can play againts those euroleague guards,but when you get 5 minutes a game its hard to prove something.But when you brign those players together and let them play 20minutes each,you can be suprised that they can give eqaul fight to bakcourts you mentione.And about our frontcourt im not even worried,our opponents shoud be worried more :

Maciulis,Jasaitis,kuzminskas,kleiza,jankunas,motie junas,valanciunas,javtokas will stand they ground under basket...There like 10 teams in europe that can make semifinal and all of them have right to feel like that and lithuania is in that 10 team mix.

pohani komarac
03-13-2013, 06:15 PM
Planinič and Marco Popovič is up to play for Croatia?

Popovic is sure, most probably. Planinic??? He sent Joke Vrankovic to his place when he told him he will be back up for Draper...tough he didn't close door to NT

Reading from what players are sayin they are aware most of our NT players this season have big roles in their clubs and all of them kind sound like they belive they could actally make something...they all sound hungry for NT sucses like rarly in past so I personaly belive we could have full roster if we didn't have such morons in federation....specially considering coach situation

maybe it is time that our players go without coach:o

Shawshank
03-13-2013, 06:49 PM
Popovic is sure, most probably. Planinic??? He sent Joke Vrankovic to his place when he told him he will be back up for Draper...tough he didn't close door to NT

Reading from what players are sayin they are aware most of our NT players this season have big roles in their clubs and all of them kind sound like they belive they could actally make something...they all sound hungry for NT sucses like rarly in past so I personaly belive we could have full roster if we didn't have such morons in federation....specially considering coach situation

maybe it is time that our players go without coach:o

put Tabak as head coach and Perasovic with Kukoc as his assistants atleast your team will have highest by height coach tandems in eb history :) They cant go worse than eb 2011 coaches did with your really good players.

pohani komarac
03-13-2013, 07:10 PM
put Tabak as head coach and Perasovic with Kukoc as his assistants atleast your team will have highest by height coach tandems in eb history :) They cant go worse than eb 2011 coaches did with your really good players.

that would be my dream...Perasovic is there now for quite bit and showing good coachin and Tabak showing some promise....togh it's imposible untill Radic is leading our federation

Imo Repesa and Sunara are not short combination. Repesa is close to 2M while Sunara around 210:D

G&B
03-15-2013, 03:36 PM
TOP-5
Spain, Lithuania;France;Croatia;Serbia

peppetto93
03-16-2013, 01:02 PM
Maybe, for me, you underestimate the italian team. This is a team that do go out the bench players like Hackett, Aradori, Datome, Mancinelli ad other important players. For example, the Russia have a bench very short and more weak Italy. The probable italian team the next eurobasket in Slovenia:

Diener - Hackett - Cinciarini
Belinelli - Aradori
Gallinari - Datome
Melli or Polonara - Mancinelli
Bargnani - Cusin - Gigli

This team physically is very very strong and is very very long with all 12 players that can affect a game.

Toxicity
03-16-2013, 04:48 PM
Maybe, for me, you underestimate the italian team. This is a team that do go out the bench players like Hackett, Aradori, Datome, Mancinelli ad other important players. For example, the Russia have a bench very short and more weak Italy. The probable italian team the next eurobasket in Slovenia:

Diener - Hackett - Cinciarini
Belinelli - Aradori
Gallinari - Datome
Melli or Polonara - Mancinelli
Bargnani - Cusin - Gigli

This team physically is very very strong and is very very long with all 12 players that can affect a game.

We come from some disappointing results in the recent past so of course we are not among favourites... moreover we play better as underdogs... ;)

c-myers
03-16-2013, 08:33 PM
Clearly there are two favourite team spain and france the others almost same strong and unpredictable.

Jon_Koncak
03-17-2013, 12:58 PM
Maybe, for me, you underestimate the italian team. This is a team that do go out the bench players like Hackett, Aradori, Datome, Mancinelli ad other important players. For example, the Russia have a bench very short and more weak Italy. The probable italian team the next eurobasket in Slovenia:

Diener - Hackett - Cinciarini
Belinelli - Aradori
Gallinari - Datome
Melli or Polonara - Mancinelli
Bargnani - Cusin - Gigli

This team physically is very very strong and is very very long with all 12 players that can affect a game.

Good from 1-3,crappy frontcourt.Bargani barely looks like a basketball player anymore.

Theskyisalandfil
04-01-2013, 07:53 PM
Looks like Cleveland Cavs assistant Joe Prunty will be named GB coach

http://www.mvp247.com/2013/03/joe-prunty-favourite/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/american-sports/true-brit-cleveland-cavaliers-assistant-1796066

Would prefer my country had an established european coach personally (the problem has generally been lack of discipline & structure rather than raw talent) - that said, given the funding problems earlier this year - it could be worse -the guy has 15 years in the NBA including working with finals/championship teams.

This will be a difficult tournament for us, although it's nice not to be in the group of death.
Hoping we can find a commercial backer to sustain development for the future.

pimpekaustas
04-02-2013, 09:08 PM
zoran planinić said he will not play on eurobasket

pohani komarac
04-02-2013, 09:36 PM
zoran planinić said he will not play on eurobasket

he said he does not know jet

http://www.hrsport.net/vijesti/459078/kosarka-reprezentacija/planinic-hrvatska-je-sjajna-i-bez-mene-jos-ne-znam-hocu-li-igrati-na-eurobasketu/

pimpekaustas
04-07-2013, 10:29 AM
http://www.jutarnji.hr/kosarkasi-otkazuju-eurobasket--a-izbornik--i-sportski-direktor-postoje-samo-nesluzbeno/1095534/

condemned to failure! says croatian newspapers :D

players are quitting, coach and sport manager of NT are still unknown... same old story :)

HeinrichMohr
04-09-2013, 06:19 PM
It's very soon to think about a possible top 5 of candidates for the title, especially because all of us know very well that things can change depending on the players each team will lose, but anyway we should count with France, Lithuania, Russia, Serbia, Spain and Greece. Croatia, Slovenia and Turkey could take advantage if some of the other teams don't perform well. Italy will come back to the elite in Europe soon or later, but i don't think that will happen in this edition.

naumoski
05-16-2013, 02:26 PM
It seems Spain will display "B" national team without: Pau Gasol, Navarro, Marc Gasol, Calderon, Reyes...World Championship 2014 wil be played at Spain, so these players surely are going to rest this summer.

Therefore forget Spain as a favourite.

Victorious
05-16-2013, 09:25 PM
It seems Spain will display "B" national team without: Pau Gasol, Navarro, Marc Gasol, Calderon, Reyes...World Championship 2014 wil be played at Spain, so these players surely are going to rest this summer.

Therefore forget Spain as a favourite.

Doesn't matter, because they have great replacements. Moreover, this should also take some pressure away from them. In any case, losing Gasol bros and Navarro can make a huge difference.

rikhardur
05-17-2013, 01:49 AM
It seems Spain will display "B" national team without: Pau Gasol, Navarro, Marc Gasol, Calderon, Reyes...World Championship 2014 wil be played at Spain, so these players surely are going to rest this summer.

Therefore forget Spain as a favourite.
Marc and Calderón out too? Didn't see this reported.

Tasos Peiraias
05-17-2013, 08:17 AM
Top 5 candicates:
1.Greece
2.France
3.Russia
4.Spain
5.Slovenia(hosts)

Straight forward
05-17-2013, 06:14 PM
Marc and Calderón out too? Didn't see this reported.

I actually read that Pau and Calderon still under question. I don't think anyone said definite NO yet. However, none of current Spaniards is as good as cold blooded killer Pau was at his prime. Since both Pau and Navarro are already not the same, I don't think Spain will be at the same level anymore. For me Spain is still No.1 team to beat no matter what teams other contenders will bring, but i'm pretty sure they won't be as freakin' good as they were in 2006 for example (for a very long time).

rikhardur
05-17-2013, 07:06 PM
Well for Pau it looks more clear he won't than anything: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/arti.asp?newsid=55524

Straight forward
05-17-2013, 07:10 PM
Well for Pau it looks more clear he won't than anything: http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/lateNews/arti.asp?newsid=55524

Thanks, I missed that. Pau is still best Spain's player, IMO. Unless Marc Gasol will prove me wrong in this Eurobasket.

Straight forward
06-01-2013, 07:42 PM
Russia without Viktor Khryapa in Eurobasket.

Dtown
06-02-2013, 02:56 AM
With no rosters out yet I'm still not ready to make full predictions, but there is one thing I'm pretty confident about.

The three teams that qualify from Group B (and that could be anyone, except maybe Latvia) will make the the final 8, and be in the FIBA World Cup. I just feel the teams in this group will be of the highest quality with the fewest amount of no shows.

Shawshank
06-02-2013, 08:32 AM
With no rosters out yet I'm still not ready to make full predictions, but there is one thing I'm pretty confident about.

The three teams that qualify from Group B (and that could be anyone, except maybe Latvia) will make the the final 8, and be in the FIBA World Cup. I just feel the teams in this group will be of the highest quality with the fewest amount of no shows.

i agree.That group B is stronger than group that gonna become from groups top3 A and top3 B...Basically who gonna qualife from group B + France all are going to 1/4 game .Im little worry about those ex-jusgoslovian countrys.I feel we Lithuanians have best tallent of 12 players in that group,but jugoslavia style was always known for : if they face better team,they arent playing by themselfs,but not allow play basketball to opponent either.We have many battles against those smart ex-jugoslavians and its was nerve war always.Our first game against Serbia will be crusial if we gonna start with win,we gonna win the group because confidience will on our side after such win,but if we gonna lose that first game its can become hard to even qualife,this group is tricky...

About level of 2013 overall no doubt is gonna be weaker than 2011.Already P.Gasol,Nowitzky,Kirilenko,Chriapa,Galinnari,Plani nic is top players of their countries will not play and im sure they gonna be more absiences as summer will go on.

If Parker is playing in my book France is nr1 favourite in this tournament.Argubly Tony was best european this seaon and he has help from 6-7 other nba players.Hard to beat this.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-02-2013, 09:45 AM
I'm kind of thinking the same about France here, however I'd rate Noah as equaly important as Parker for their game. French do have loads of reknown players on inside positions however many of them are pretty limited when it comes to international game either through fundamentals or height. That's what's been keeping the French down for the past decade the most imo.

Straight forward
06-02-2013, 10:10 AM
For the goup stage I agree that it might be one hell in the B section. But I'm not sure about Montenegro's chances in the knock out stage. I mean they have no such experience and having two elite big men might not be enough to fight with very equal and experienced teams down there. I really doubt Macedonia will hold the level of 2011.

Currently it seems like France (agree here) should have a small edge over Spain.

Noah? The same was said about him before Eurobasket 2011, but despite being rather good he didn't impress that much. Now he's even better of course, we'll see.

macleopard13
06-09-2013, 09:53 PM
Lithuania moved up to third place in EuroBasket prediction rankings for the first time, all because good team front courts are diminishing.

Current rankings
1. France
2. Spain
3. Lithuania
4. Greece
5. Slovenia
6. Russia
7. Montenegro
8. Serbia
9. Turkey
10. Italy
11. Croatia
12. Germany
13. Macedonia
14. Israel
15. Bosnia
16. Poland
17. Great Britain
18. Sweden
19. Finland
20. Ukraine
21. Czech Republic
22. Georgia
23. Latvia
24. Belgium

wardjdim
06-10-2013, 01:04 AM
It should be a super interesting (yet not high level) tournament. Many new players will come to the surface since we already know that many big stars won't play this year

According to the current knowledge (that is, coaches, then who is definitely NOT going to play and who we are ASSUMING is also not going to play), there are four levels of teams

Gold Contenders
Greece (1st favorite, full team, depth in every position leads any team but maybe France, most players at career season, very good coach after many years in Trinchieri. Player relationships look alright at the moment. Great chemistry. Worries are Calathes and Spanoulis at PG being turnover prone and maybe some key players being cut at the end of the day. Great frontcourt. Rather easy group)
France (only if Noah plays. Parker essential, but not a must, since they have a very deep backcourt. His presence could make them #1 favorite. Batum, De Colo and their young PGs should be ready to take over if Parker doesn't come. Easiest group should help them find chemistry on time. Gold medal chance maybe for the last time in Parker's generation)
Serbia (worst of these top3 teams. Depth is very good and the Partizan team will have many young players in, but Teodosic's participation is still unknown and his importance to the team will be very key. He has to be healthy and very good for them to have gold shots. If he doesn't play or he becomes a ball hog, they might well finish 8th. Krstic as the top option can make them predictable. Savanovic might not play)

Medal Contenders
Montenegro (depends on Spain and Mirotic as a story. Either way, top notch frontcourt, maybe best in Eurobasket. Thin wings, worry on 3pt shooting. Dasic also a worry after this poor season. PG issue is alright even if Brown plays instead of Cook or Rochestie)
Spain (Pau out, Marc, Navarro and Reyes also likely out. New coach could also be a worry. Ibaka might be a limit in the paint, especially if this means that Mirotic will again not play. Perimeter is elite but not enough for a three-peat, especially since they have already qualified for the 2014 WC. Rubio, Calderon, Sergio are a great PG combination, but none of them can play another position. The Madrid tandem could be the core in the wings and can be very effective)
Croatia (Typical underachievers despite their sick depth, lack of morale and competition mood, always poor coaching should continue again with Repesa. Saric's role should/could be vital. Playing in the toughest group might add further pressure to their typically weak mentality. PG position and locker room could be their biggest worries but they can go far if they start well)
Lithuania (Unimpressive squad but alerts for potential overachieving ala 2010. Donatas-Jonas-Maciulis-Jankunas should headline the frontcourt. Kalnietis and Juskevicius will be the most underrated PG duo. Lack of shooting consistency, especially if Jasaitis isn't called. If Kleiza is important for them, then they might stand no chance)
Slovenia (Hosts. Worries in almost every position apart from PG where Dragic should be well settled. Worries in the frontcourt after Lorbek's injuries and bad shape. Uninstalled wings with Muric's injury. Thin center line offensively. Should struggle a lot schedule-wise till the knock out stage and hopefully they can win a knock out game at home)
Russia (Kirilenko, Khryapa, Kaun and Fridzon out of the competition. Blatt substituted by Katsikaris. Shved, Karasev, Monya, if he plays, Vorontsevich and Mozgov should start for them and backed by Khvostov, Ponkrashov, Kulyagin, Likhodey/Shabalkin and Morgunov. That's not a medal contender but Shved and Karasev might have great tournaments. It's unlikely they'll be steady though. 1st round is a bit tricky for them)
Turkey (Team with a medal chance, though a longshot. Traditionally poor in competitions away from Turkey. Nice frontcourt. Kanter had an operation but might be alright for the competition. Emir Preldzic's importance should vary per lineup. No strength at PG. Onan a worry as their best SG. Defensive liabilities in most positions apart from frontcourt. 1st round, like Russia, can be very tricky)
Germany (Very longshot. Literally last team with a slight chance to the top4. No Dirk is only good for their late 80s born generation. Decent depth in most positions and chemistry. Lack of interior strength. Benzing too thin and weak for the #1 offensive option. Has an upside of overachieving after glimpses of team coherence in the past. Pesic leaving could be a worry for the previous statement though. Very easy 1st round group might help a lot)

Top8 Contenders
Georgia (One of the teams that can get in the picture after the last Eurobasket and qualis. Decent to elite frontcourt. Weak backcourt. Too much dependant on Markoishvilli. Same team for years, such teams usually overachieve at weaker competitions like this one. Great team dedication and stability according to their level)
Poland (Interesting squad with likely all big names participating. The 1993 generation hopefully only 2-3 years away from taking over. Very good frontcourt with Lampe and Gortat being very effective offensive players. Lack of perimeter shooting and PG skills won't allow them to go far)
Macedonia (Impossible to reach 2011's standards. Most players apart from Antic had a fall since then. Gecevski likely to miss Eurobasket. Coach change shouldn't be good for their morale. Tough group to get out of and that should hurt the 2nd stage. Lack of depth became even more evident since 2011. Extremely tough group to overcome, even if McCalebb gets back to full form)
Italy (Gallinari, the country's best basketball player in years is out. Bargnani and Bellineli are just contributors and not leaders let alone their non team-oriented characters. Bargnani had a horrible, career-worst NBA season. Mancinelli might not even be invited to the team. Weak frontcourt. Weak PG position. An underachieving team every single summer. Pianigiani had a career-worst Euroleague season in Istanbul)
Israel (Top12 hopeful, after a topsy turvy qualification stage. Casspi didn't play much this season. Good depth in the top8 of the roster, but that's a long tournament. Easy group that makes top12 qualification rather likely, but hints small traps. A win over Germany might get them very close to top8)

Non-Top 8 Contenders
Ukraine (Interesting team. Good coach. Decent starting lineup, if all their young guys play. Lack of experience, which will be vital in their open for qualification 1st round group. Len and Kravtsov can be an interesting frontcourt in a few years. Gladyr is a talented as their 1st offensive option)
Finland (the 2nd best surprise of the last Eurobasket after Macedonia. Heavy overachievers. Lack of depth in every position but PG and SG. Can steal a game or two and they're proven in that. Has very limited hopes for 2nd round qualification, especially if Koponnen, who had a weak season at Khimki, goes back to last summer form)
Belgium (Finland's partner on the level of persistence in goals. Nice 1st round group makes them hope for a top12 possible reach. Tries their best without any decent depth in any position. Good league that doesn't produce great talent in anywhere but frontcourt, where Hervelle is their best player. Van Rossom is the leader but can't be a go-to player at this stage)
Bosnia (Miserable Teletovic debut NBA season. Team not completely unbalanced, but weak in the perimeter and rather underachieving thus far. Depending too much on Mirza, who goes crazy when with the NT. Unattractive but not bad frontcourt. Extremely difficult 1st round group)
Czech Republic (decent backcourt. Satoransky, Jelinek and Vesely are a young tandem, capable of leading them up to the 2nd round, but it looks as unlikely. Weak frontcourt and none of the previously mentioned players is an offensive go-to guy. Welsh, Barton and Benda might get a tough time with other teams' bigs)
Sweden (Maybe the weakest depth-wise of all Eurobasket participants. Jerebko in a weak NBA season might be alright for the qualifications but can't be the go-to player at this level, especially with this talent around him. Taylor as an addition seems pretty good and could have a great tournament. Maraker had great qualisDifficult first round group makes things even tougher for them)
Great Britain (Poor season for Freeland in the NBA. Deng won't play this summer. Pops is not playing basketball for a good while. Gordon was never committing to the NT. Lack of interest by more than expected players. After the Olympics, the sport has collapsed in the UK. Sole hope the easiest 1st round group of the tournament, where after France and Germany no-one else looks like a lock)
Latvia (Another poor summer. Davis Bertans can emerge as one of the positive surprises of this tournament. Dairis might again overachieve. Right now seems impossible for them to reach the top12, even if Berzins and Biedrins both play and also be good up front, despite lack of depth)

Listas
06-10-2013, 04:40 AM
Lithuania (Unimpressive squad but alerts for potential overachieving ala 2010. Donatas-Jonas-Maciulis-Jankunas should headline the frontcourt. Kalnietis and Juskevicius will be the most underrated PG duo. Lack of shooting consistency, especially if Jasaitis isn't called. If Kleiza is important for them, then they might stand no chance)

What ?

madmax
06-10-2013, 06:03 AM
What ?

you don't agree with that?:rolleyes:
Kleiza is a cancer and always has been one...dude is a certified ballhog

Listas
06-10-2013, 07:31 AM
you don't agree with that?:rolleyes:
Kleiza is a cancer and always has been one...dude is a certified ballhog

So being the 1st option on a team that struggles offensively makes him a ball hog ?

madmax
06-10-2013, 08:13 AM
So being the 1st option on a team that struggles offensively makes him a ball hog ?

him scoring a lot of points never led us to anything apart from that flukey 2010 WC. And he's a much worse player now anyway compared to those days. It's just a fact that he's a black hole offensively who doesn't play a lick of defense - players of this kind usually are very bad "leaders" on court and off court.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-10-2013, 10:14 AM
Nice analysis wardjdim, I'd argue on some ranges now and than though. Although overall I'd agree with a lot of what you've written there :)
I believe you're still underestimating Latvia, while I can't say for sure but I am expecting the young Czechs to make a step forward even if Vesely doesn't find his game back again.
Finn's do play with a rather short rotation, but It should get prolongued (Erik Murphy Uni of Florida has a Finnish mother and reportedly should play), while with the old italian "Myers-Basile" tactics rotation never meant a whole lot with raining three pointers :)

It'll be tough for the "old surprises" to repeat their results, but than again I believe the new surprises will come.

Listas
06-10-2013, 11:06 AM
him scoring a lot of points never led us to anything apart from that flukey 2010 WC. And he's a much worse player now anyway compared to those days. It's just a fact that he's a black hole offensively who doesn't play a lick of defense - players of this kind usually are very bad "leaders" on court and off court.

In 2010 and 2012 Qualifying he averaged 19 points on nearly 60 % from the field. By your logic guys like Navarro, Parker, Scola are ball hogs as well.

Straight forward
06-10-2013, 09:33 PM
him scoring a lot of points never led us to anything apart from that flukey 2010 WC. And he's a much worse player now anyway compared to those days. It's just a fact that he's a black hole offensively who doesn't play a lick of defense - players of this kind usually are very bad "leaders" on court and off court.

That's not exactly true. Actually it's two medals (Eurobasket 2007 bronze and 2010 WC bronze and strong performance in Olympcs 2008). Kleiza is an important contributor since 2007 (10ppg and 5 rebounds, shooting 43% threes). In 2008 Olympics Kleiza was the best scorer in the group stage averaging 14ppg with solid %. That helped us to reach the semis big time. In 2009 he was struggling and out of any position (thank you Butautas) and yet he was one of the best players (9 points, 5 rebounds and 51% 2pts shooting). In 2010 he was just great. In 2012 he was OK.

I enjoy reading wardjdim posts very much, but if Balcan bias fan calls Kleiza a bad luck for Lithuania it doesn't mean it's necessary true. It's rather a lack of closer look and knowledge. I agree that Kleiza's role should be a little bit different this time, but the statement is wrong.

As for contenders, Serbia doesn't stand a chance. Not even close.


Baltic Giants bias fan.

macleopard13
06-11-2013, 04:08 AM
Kleiza has always helped our team. True, he is inconsistent, but when he's done more good than bad in his NT career. Who could forget his clutch three against Argentina in Beijing '08 or his performance at the World Championship? He's not the "nicest" person out there on the court, but he can give a lot of energy to our team. So he's definitely a plus on our team.

But if he underperforms, we're not screwed - we've got nice backup players (Maciulis, Valanciunas, Kalnietis, Pocius, Motiejunas) who can take on the leadership role on any given night. I think we'll do just fine this year, hopefully even better than the last EuroBasket. :)

madmax
06-11-2013, 06:51 AM
That's not exactly true. Actually it's two medals (Eurobasket 2007 bronze and 2010 WC bronze and strong performance in Olympcs 2008). Kleiza is an important contributor since 2007 (10ppg and 5 rebounds, shooting 43% threes). In 2008 Olympics Kleiza was the best scorer in the group stage averaging 14ppg with solid %. That helped us to reach the semis big time. In 2009 he was struggling and out of any position (thank you Butautas) and yet he was one of the best players (9 points, 5 rebounds and 51% 2pts shooting). In 2010 he was just great. In 2012 he was OK.

I enjoy reading wardjdim posts very much, but if Balcan bias fan calls Kleiza a bad luck for Lithuania it doesn't mean it's necessary true. It's rather a lack of closer look and knowledge. I agree that Kleiza's role should be a little bit different this time, but the statement is wrong.

As for contenders, Serbia doesn't stand a chance. Not even close.


Baltic Giants bias fan.

Since I'm not exactly a fan of high scoring one-dimensional players, you should see where I'm coming from here with my Kleiza dislike. He just isn't nowhere near as good as his numbers suggest - think of Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks situation. Although Melo gets sexy numbers and "leader" schtick, team still underperforms heavily. That's the curse of all ball dominant chuckers. I very much prefer well rounded players, especially big guys like Valanciunas, who can win games even without scoring a single bucket with their defense and rebounding. Because at the end of the day all sexy numers mean nothing if a team still loses a game, correct?

Toxicity
06-11-2013, 09:07 AM
Italy (Gallinari, the country's best basketball player in years is out. Bargnani and Bellineli are just contributors and not leaders let alone their non team-oriented characters. Bargnani had a horrible, career-worst NBA season.

Just contributors? Well, Bargnani may be just a contributor but in the last Eurobasket put up stats like 22 ppg and 8 rpg together with a couple of blocks... not too bad for a "just contributor"...

Belinelli is improved a lot this year with Chicago Bulls and i think he's ready to be a key player for our team... if he'll come (it's not sure right now)...


Mancinelli might not even be invited to the team.

Mancio sucks and if he makes the final roster it's just because he's the NT captain...


Weak frontcourt.

As usual...


Weak PG position.

With naturalization of Travis Diener and great improvements of Hackett and Cinciarini i think the PG position isn't weak anymore...


An underachieving team every single summer.

Last summer we had a good start 8-0 in the qualification... i think we can build on that.


Pianigiani had a career-worst Euroleague season in Istanbul)

He's still the same coach that won several championships for Siena...

All in all, i think you're underrating Italy NT... with Beli and Diener we are one of the most talented team in the backcourt... Aradori Top 10 scoring guard in the Euroleague... Datome MVP of the Italian League and in the Italian League Final with Roma (and supposed to be the 4th italian in the NBA next year)... Hackett MVP of the Italian Playoff so far and leader of a renewed MPS Siena... Alessandro Gentile as one of the best '92 born in Europe and already a key player for his team... some intriguing youngsters added in the mix (Polonara, Melli, De Nicolao, ect)... we'll see but i'm confident even without our best player (other teams will miss a lot of key players too)...

G&B
06-18-2013, 10:19 AM
Serbia and Greece has no chance to fight for the gold. Spain, Lithuania and France significantly superior team.

Picek
06-18-2013, 10:56 AM
Serbia and Greece has no chance to fight for the gold. Spain, Lithuania and France significantly superior team.Spain without Pau and possibly Marc..
without Ibaka, with injury prone Navarro who is struggling with injuries throughout the entire season.
yes, they are still deep enough but significantly superior?
Lithuania significantly superior? only a Lith can think that..
because of a lot of cancellations this will be probably the most equal european championship ever, in terms of team strength and direct comparison between the teams..
I wouldn't be surprised if we will see a team(s) winning a medal eventhough they haven't won it before or haven't won it in a long time..

arturcia
06-18-2013, 11:29 AM
I think this championship will be very interesting and unpredictable. most of the strongest teams will be without their previous leaders and young talents will have a chance. I think top 4 teams will be Spain, Greece, Spain and maybe Lithuania. Next 4 will be Croatia, Italy, Slovenia (?), Serbia (?). But this time there is a lot of teams that could upset the favorites: Montenegro, Germany, Czechs, Russia, Turkey. I'm waiting for a very interesting championship :)

Jon_Koncak
06-18-2013, 11:38 AM
France has unbelieveble depth.All those good youth generations finally pay off for them.Parker,Heurteul,Westerman,Caseur,Diot,DeColo, Jackson,Gelabale,Fournier,Pietrus bros,Batum,fatass Diaw,Lauvergne,Noah,Mahimni,Turiaf,Petro,Ajinca,Mo erman,Tillie..and then there are role players like Bokolo,Tchikaboud or Kahouni,Albicy.So many choices for their (mediocre) coach.Shame what happened to Vaty he could be a reliable player in the post.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-18-2013, 12:39 PM
What happened to Ludovic Vaty?

Otherwise apart from France it's really impossible to claim any other team has some significant quality roster advantage. I respect Spain's second team a lot, but they're still a second team, while as for Lithuania, with all due respect as a big fan of your basketball, where exactly is your so-called "name" advantage to the extent you guys should be among the top favourites? Kleiza? Motiejunas? Valenciounas? Sure Lith's are normaly quite a cohesive team, that could of course do the job, while I honestly doubt names alone would bring you guys succes this time.

Jon_Koncak
06-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Vaty retired from bball due to heart problems.

Straight forward
06-18-2013, 10:45 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we will see a team(s) winning a medal eventhough they haven't won it before or haven't won it in a long time..

It's rather easy to imagine what you are refering to :)

Theoretically your statement is correnct though, but I have a feeling Slovenia and Croatia will be without medals again. Montenegro wont be as strong as people expect as well, specially when the knockout stage will happen.


Otherwise apart from France it's really impossible to claim any other team has some significant quality roster advantage. I respect Spain's second team a lot, but they're still a second team, while as for Lithuania, with all due respect as a big fan of your basketball, where exactly is your so-called "name" advantage to the extent you guys should be among the top favourites? Kleiza? Motiejunas? Valenciounas? Sure Lith's are normaly quite a cohesive team, that could of course do the job, while I honestly doubt names alone would bring you guys succes this time.

No-one has a clue what is Lithuania these days. Only summer and September will let us know. Isn't that fun? It is. Just as the whole situation with this Eurobasket.

wardjdim
06-19-2013, 12:12 AM
Nice analysis wardjdim, I'd argue on some ranges now and than though. Although overall I'd agree with a lot of what you've written there :)
I believe you're still underestimating Latvia, while I can't say for sure but I am expecting the young Czechs to make a step forward even if Vesely doesn't find his game back again.
Finn's do play with a rather short rotation, but It should get prolongued (Erik Murphy Uni of Florida has a Finnish mother and reportedly should play), while with the old italian "Myers-Basile" tactics rotation never meant a whole lot with raining three pointers :)

It'll be tough for the "old surprises" to repeat their results, but than again I believe the new surprises will come.
Yes you are right Matiz

It was pretty bad news to read about Davis Bertans, indeed.. The guy would be having a great opportunity in this tournament. Five games to grow up a bit. A real pity

As for the rest of the teams, yes, we will have to wait and after all, maybe the Czechs end up going farther than I expect. Maybe chemistry is on their side.. But let's see who will be there first

Montenegro not calling Mirotic in the preliminary squad might mean that Nicola will be playing for Spain, so we might want Spain a bit higher in the rankings, especially with news about Serbia getting worse every day. Now the Serbian backcourt and frontcourt hit badly, they might reconsider about calling Tepic in the place of Micov (which is bad news for them), as well as maybe Milosavljevic.. The PF position is also thin. The Spanish team seems more solid right now. Definitely. And if Milos is out, Markovic, Micic and Nedovic is an ok PG line but definitely not elite, especially with Nedovic also needing to maybe play some SG

Looking into how many young guys need to overachieve for Serbia to win gold, I think they should be removed in the 2nd group of teams, the medal contenders





I enjoy reading wardjdim posts very much
thanks man ;)



but if Balcan bias fan calls Kleiza a bad luck for Lithuania it doesn't mean it's necessary true. It's rather a lack of closer look and knowledge. I agree that Kleiza's role should be a little bit different this time, but the statement is wrong.
I disagree here. Kleiza has been great in 2010 and in general a decent offensive player but he should be just a role player in this team. Donatas is most likely the guy you need to put the ball on his hands at PF and the SF position is also pretty much covered. Kleiza is not really matching chemistry-wise, in my opinion at least, with that roster, just because the talent in the frontcourt is overcoming the need of a big name. It's just a matter of priorities imho



As for contenders, Serbia doesn't stand a chance. Not even close.
You might be right. With Teodosic doubtful and now learning that Savanovic, Micov, Nole and Erceg also out, things are becoming tighter for Serbia. Especially Micov is going to be a key absence if you ask me



All in all, i think you're underrating Italy NT... with Beli and Diener we are one of the most talented team in the backcourt... Aradori Top 10 scoring guard in the Euroleague... Datome MVP of the Italian League and in the Italian League Final with Roma (and supposed to be the 4th italian in the NBA next year)... Hackett MVP of the Italian Playoff so far and leader of a renewed MPS Siena... Alessandro Gentile as one of the best '92 born in Europe and already a key player for his team... some intriguing youngsters added in the mix (Polonara, Melli, De Nicolao, ect)... we'll see but i'm confident even without our best player (other teams will miss a lot of key players too)...
True

I underrated Italy a lot. I am watching the Italian finals. I am still not impressed but this could be the most interesting season and playoffs of some years

Actually, you could be very right. Let me rephrase. In a tournament like this, open and competitive with many teams missing many players, Italy has their best team in some years. And although I am positive that Gallinari is by far the best player in the country and I can't see why anyone would want Bargs and Bellineli in their team, there is enough depth. Of course, Pianigiani is proven as incapable to connect the pieces in the NT, but true.. He's a very good coach, even if he had a horrible season in Istanbul. Let's see now if he manages to clear a similar mess in the NT. I am still a bit hesitant, but they might be a longshot at actually contending for a medal :)

G&B
06-19-2013, 06:30 AM
I think it can reach high places: Italy Croatia and Slovenia. Russia certainly will not be the Quartet without Kirilenko, Xriapa as Turkey is playing well only at home. Greece maximum of fourth place. Serbia strong all the time but it is something missing Teodosić can pull a team important games but can bury important tournament, it's very similar to our Kalnietis, just all lucky we are less dependent on it.

Straight forward
06-19-2013, 10:43 PM
I disagree here. Kleiza has been great in 2010 and in general a decent offensive player but he should be just a role player in this team. Donatas is most likely the guy you need to put the ball on his hands at PF and the SF position is also pretty much covered. Kleiza is not really matching chemistry-wise, in my opinion at least, with that roster, just because the talent in the frontcourt is overcoming the need of a big name. It's just a matter of priorities imho


Now it makes more sense, but I don't agree with your statement that Kleiza is not matching chemistry wise. Contrary, Kleiza has his best luck in international game despite a decent carreer in Denver Nuggets. The guy is a mismatch at 4 in international game. He dominated 4 position in Euroleague while playing for Olympiacos and he usually is succesful in the NT. Those who think Kleiza is washed out ofter injury should wait and see what he is now. He will want to prove his value after gloomy season in Toronto. However, despite I'm backing up Kleiza here, his NT role will depend on how Jonas and Donatas will establish themselves. Both has way higher seilling than Kleiza's, while Jonas might be already dominant in the offensive end. Only European refering might role out him from the strong performances, specially when we see Gasols, Ibakas, Koufos and such under question or officialy out.

wardjdim
06-19-2013, 11:58 PM
Well, Koufos and Ibaka are both very limited offensive players. Gasol is a dominant guy, really. I don't believe that these three guys should be mentioned in the same sentence

Indeed, Navarro today pretty much made it clear why he won't end up playing in the Eurobasket and Marc is also hinting the same thing. With their "big three" out, Spain should be very lucky that actually Ibaka might not play as well. With Ibaka out, they finally get an anti-Gasol at Mirotic's addition (given that he'll play), which pretty much balances the perimeter with the frontcourt offensively. Till now we were having a huge lack of equilibrium there

PG- Ricky, Calderon, Sergio, Sada
SG- Llull, Abrines
SF- Rudy, San Emeterio, Rabaseda
PF- Mirotic, Reyes (if he plays), Claver
C- Fran Vasquez, Xavi Rey, add anyone else, really..

The importance of Mirotic instead of Ibaka is huge in the offense. Given that Reyes might also opt out (there is nothing he hasn't won with the NT, really and he still might be playing next year, as the rest of his generation), a team with Ibaka instead of Mirotic doesn't really have a single offensive option up front, maybe apart from Claver, who is though completely unstable and inexperienced

The length and strength of the perimeter, even without Navarro (or even without Calderon) is unquestionable, especially now with Madrid proving they have the most intimidating backcourt in Europe. Obviously they can't have Navarro (or Jaycee Carroll) but they have multiple options, good enough to present different lineups and different speeds. With Mirotic, that can bring over an extra gear, especially with Nicola's multi-dimensional offensive game and above average basketball IQ. But despite Ibaka's defensive superiority, he is not an offensive option really. He is a very limited offensive player, especially in the international game and especially with both Gasol brothers likely out

So, if Mirotic and Claver cover for the PF position, there is a slight likelihood that the rather thin center line, which pretty much will be consisting of finishers will not be proven enough of a weak link to deprive Spain from another run to the gold medal. Again, though, it's a longshot

------------------------------------------


In regards to Greece

Greece has not been an issue of serious discussion since the good Giannakis years and it is pretty understandable. With the great generation of Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Dikoudis, Papadopoulos, Kakiouzis and Hatzivretas well gone and then the likes of Spanoulis, Zisis, Fotsis, Bourousis and Sofo taking over, the result was pretty much expected. They were really lacking depth. Locker room relationships were pretty bad, especially with coaches not getting the best out of their players. The 2009 team that won a bronze medal in Poland was one of the worst teams to win a medal in the history of Eurobaskets really. And it's not only that. They were playing ugly basketball

But noting that you mentioned Koufos' absence. Koufos, like Ibaka, is a banger and a finisher. He is nowhere close to the potentially dominant big man of 6 years ago in the U18 European Championships. He is most likely a limited offensive guy, without post moves and without that sweet long range shot that made him so tough to handle before he went to the NBA. Let's admit that he is a worse player and that he will be useful to talentless teams but with that roster, Trinchieri should be grateful that the kid opted out

Look at the depth

PG- N. Calathes, Sloukas, Zisis
SG- Spanoulis, Vasiliadis, Pappas, Katsivelis
SF- Papanikolaou, Bramos, Jankovic, P. Calathes, Perperoglou
PF- Printezis, Kaimakoglou, Fotsis
C- Bourousis, Mavrokefalidis, Vouyoukas, Sofo

Why do you need Koufos here? I am not sure. That's a darn deep team and I am struggling to figure out how does Koufos surpass Mavrokefalidis or Vouyoukas offensively, despite his strength


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In regards to Kleiza

I am well aware of his value both individually and as a part of the Lithuanian teams. Indeed this summer, we are celebrating a decade since Kleiza's great U19 tourney in Thesaloniki in the WC where Lithuania lost to Australia in the final game (call me Andrew Bogut..)

Kleiza is a particular case. You are right to claim that he is tough to guard at PF. I am adding, not only in the international player. Kleiza is a very skilled player to guard anywhere. In his best days in Denver, if he wasn't playing behind Carmelo Anthony, we are talking about a legit starter and an 18ppg scorer given that Karl tolerates his instability and gives him time. But unlike, let's say, the standards of Denver where the best player can easily be Gallinari, even in his worst season, Kleiza is not only an unstable x factor but also a non contributor, at least not a contributor that any team likes from a guy that takes many shots. Again, not doubting his numbers and again not claiming that, for example, Donatas is a better defensive player. Still though, Donatas won't be in the NT in order to end up being the go-to guy in the lineups he will participate

In Lithuania right now there are some riddles to solve regarding chemistry. Either they go with Kleiza as a top option or not. The reason I'm picking option #2 is my preference to two players at SF and PF. Maciulis and Jankunas. Both more limited offensively. Both, though, more interested in the team. And the reason I want such players is the fact that this team will go nowhere without a great team mentality. Without Saras, Macas and Siskauskas in the backcourt, they will need such guys as they will need a better than ever Kalnietis and a stable SG at Seibutis. Kleiza, like it or not, is not matching this style. He is out of form, he is a ball hog and he is not a defensive presence. If he doesn't play as just another guy in that team, he's only gonna harm them

Straight forward
06-20-2013, 10:45 PM
In Lithuania right now there are some riddles to solve regarding chemistry. Either they go with Kleiza as a top option or not. The reason I'm picking option #2 is my preference to two players at SF and PF. Maciulis and Jankunas. Both more limited offensively. Both, though, more interested in the team. And the reason I want such players is the fact that this team will go nowhere without a great team mentality. Without Saras, Macas and Siskauskas in the backcourt, they will need such guys as they will need a better than ever Kalnietis and a stable SG at Seibutis. Kleiza, like it or not, is not matching this style. He is out of form, he is a ball hog and he is not a defensive presence. If he doesn't play as just another guy in that team, he's only gonna harm them

All what you said about Kleiza is correct, but I found the contradiction between your statement that Lithuania needs team mentality (coherence) and self-determination about who's their No.1 option. I found impression that you can't decide what is better - to have a strong priorities and hierarchy or to have a coherent team without expressed leaders. Personally now I prefer the first option - very clearly expressed rotation and a guy to go. When Lithuania won medals in 00's it was Jasikevičius and Kleiza in 2010. Also I have a feeling you don't have much faith in current Valančiūnas. Yes, he is young and got forbid he feels any pressure, but I wouldn't be a bit suprised if he will steal a show by sharp margin.

How things are happening it's easy to see that France and Greece are the teams with the best chances on the paper. I mean those teams are clearly good and proven (dispite Greece performance in pre-Olympic tournament). While more or less new made Spain, Slovenia and Lithuania are under question. Russia lost too much most probably. Serbia without question, IMO (sorry, wardjdim :)).


So at the moment I see this priority:

1-2 France, Greece
3 Spain
4-5 Lithuania- Slovenia

wardjdim
06-21-2013, 09:17 AM
France and Greece are not the best teams. They have the highest ceiling because they have depth to build on. Other teams just don't have that. Yup, things for Serbia and even worse Russia (who apart from their losses, they also have a much worse coach this summer) are, yes, topsy turvy. However, Serbia will get a roster refreshment and they look that at least, they will get rid of the past two summers' image is gone by now

You must be noticing how important I think coaches are. Trinchieri - for example - is the reason for Greece looking much better than the Zouros or Kazlauskas summers. France doesn't have a similarly good coach, while Spain also has an unproven guy there, but it's always nice to get rid of Scariolo (only Querejeta could hire this guy)

Btw, with Spain missing Reyes as well, we are just intrigued to see who will commit at PF. Mirotic or Ibaka?

Dorian
06-21-2013, 09:45 AM
France and Greece are not the best teams. They have the highest ceiling because they have depth to build on.

Given Spain's absences.


You must be noticing how important I think coaches are. Trinchieri - for example - is the reason for Greece looking much better than the Zouros or Kazlauskas summers.

Agree 100%. However, although I don't rate Zouros, I am very sceptical about Trinchieri. Not sure what to expect. And I think Kazlauskas in general is a very good coach and that gives Lithuania the edge over Greece.

G&B
06-21-2013, 12:48 PM
I do not want you talking about the time before that, but I think Lithuania has a better coach and is much faster and more technical staff than Greece, so I think in any case will be higher, because there will not play the semi-final with the U.S.

wardjdim
06-21-2013, 01:11 PM
Given Spain's absences.
We are talking about this Eurobasket. If we were talking about science fiction, like "Yugoslavia would have beaten USA in 1992, if Yugoslavias was still one country", then maybe we can start another thread ;)


Agree 100%. However, although I don't rate Zouros, I am very sceptical about Trinchieri. Not sure what to expect. And I think Kazlauskas in general is a very good coach and that gives Lithuania the edge over Greece.
Kazlauskas' two summers with the Greek NT have been full of irrationalities, horrible coaching and very ugly basketball. He was a puppet of the Federation, the guard duo of Zisis and Spanoulis were ruling the locker room and Sofo repeatedly showed disrespect to that coach. Apart from that, yes, they won a bronze medal by beating a dreadful Turkish team (playing away from Istanbul; that practically means they are harmless) which had been depending on Turkoglu and the kings of losers Slovenia, who had been battling injuries of very important players throughout the tournament and were led by a productive, yet physically exhausted Lakovic. All that, after having tried (and accidentally succeeded) to drop the group game against France in order to avoid Spain in the knock-out stage

Kazlauskas then was ridiculed in the 2010 WC by using the then-best European PG Diamantidis as a SF in order to keep both Zisis and Spanoulis in the same lineup covering the guard positions. Besides problems in chemistry, having DD playing off the ball, caused Diamantidis' decision to retire from the Greek NT at the age of 30. Greece was again ugly to watch and - of course - only barely qualified to the 2nd round, just to lose easily to a Gasol-less and Calderon-less Spain. The worst Spain of recent memory, to be more precise, led by a then-out of form Navarro and an inexperienced Marc Gasol as the premier big man. Ah, in that game, Nikos Zisis had had his best game with the NT in 5 years. Still Greece lost hands down in the 2nd half

Conclusion. Trinchieri, with a far better roster and most of the players in that roster having had career seasons in 2012-13 can do pretty well in this Eurobasket. Trinchieri is a very good coach, proven in Cantu, where he had two very good Euroleague seasons with a limited roster against much more talented teams. If he shows resistance to the federation and balances the locker room, then there is a good chance that Greece will go all the way in this Eurobasket, (obviously) because Spain is also not a full team

Dorian
06-21-2013, 01:35 PM
We are talking about this Eurobasket. If we were talking about science fiction, like "Yugoslavia would have beaten USA in 1992, if Yugoslavias was still one country", then maybe we can start another thread ;)

Not disagreeing, just wanted to make the same point as you do in your last sentence...


If he shows resistance to the federation and balances the locker room, then there is a good chance that Greece will go all the way in this Eurobasket, (obviously) because Spain is also not a full team

I understand that Trinchieri is a good coach, that's not my concern. I'm sceptical because he's never worked for a NT before, he's looking for a club contract AND because as you also mentioned he has to manage locker room/federation which is an area where Kazlauskas failed miserably.

And on that point, Kazlauskas will not have to worry about this type of issues in Lithuania, his own country where he's very well respected.

I hope it all works out well of course but as of now, I think that the Trinchieri - Greece combo has more potential failure points than Kazlauskas - Lithuania.

wardjdim
06-21-2013, 02:26 PM
I hope it all works out well of course but as of now, I think that the Trinchieri - Greece combo has more potential failure points than Kazlauskas - Lithuania.
True. But still Greece has much higher potential than Lithuania roster-wise. And the status of Greek locker room is unknown right now

In general, federations remain a constant issue regarding the freedom coaches have in imposing their will to the gameplan. It is a typical issue, especially in Europe

Dorian
06-21-2013, 03:38 PM
True. But still Greece has much higher potential than Lithuania roster-wise. And the status of Greek locker room is unknown right now

In general, federations remain a constant issue regarding the freedom coaches have in imposing their will to the gameplan. It is a typical issue, especially in Europe

Agreed.


I do not want you talking about the time before that, but I think Lithuania has a better coach and is much faster and more technical staff than Greece, so I think in any case will be higher, because there will not play the semi-final with the U.S.

If you think Lithuania will be a faster team than this year's Greek NT you live in cloud cuckoo land.

Straight forward
06-21-2013, 10:01 PM
If you think Lithuania will be a faster team than this year's Greek NT you live in cloud cuckoo land.

That's interesting point, but I think you wrong if you think Greece is obviously faster. Im my eyes it's an open question. Let's just compare the fastest lineups which are overall very possible options in real game.

PG: Calathes is faster than Kalnietis (Actually Juškevičius is quicker than Kalnietis, but it would be a little bit unfair :)).
SG. Spanoulis is probably quicker than Pocius, but is there many SGs in Europe that has quicker and more explosive first step than Pocius? I think this is close while Spanoulis is not getting any younger. Close win by Spanoulis.
SF: Papanikolau and Kuzminskas. In my eyes they are more or less in the same category in terms of quickness. Bramos is more SG than SF and Perperoglou is surely not faster than Kuzminskas or Mačiulis. Kaimakoglou is pretty fast, but not that i see him being faster than our antelope Kuzminskas.
PF: Printezis versus Kleiza/Motiejunas. Printezis is kinda tweener just like Kleiza. I doubt Greece can put so mobile and so universal due as Kleiza and Motiejunas overall. Hedge to Lithuania here.
C: Valančiunas versus anybody. Sory, no competition here. Valančiunas has deadly move to the right and can run as fast as small forward in tansition. Bourousis is skilled, but not in competition in terms of quickness. Even if there would be Koufos, he's slower. Well, maybe Sofo, I'm not sure :)

Having the fastest lineups I see the edge for Lithuania while Lithuania's froncourt is more mobile with Valančiūnas or Motiejūnas in the midle. While Greece's guards are faster, the differences between guards are not that obvious and not that substantially important as bigs...

As for overall lineups, I would probably agree Greece might be faster while Lithuania will have Javtokas, Jankūnas and Gecevičius in the roster. Not that I could see them having big roles in the team. Whatsoever, I don't see how Greece is sharply faster as you probably meant with your post. Lithuania will probably be even younger team than Greece.

Shawshank
06-22-2013, 08:11 AM
We are talking about this Eurobasket. If we were talking about science fiction, like "Yugoslavia would have beaten USA in 1992, if Yugoslavias was still one country", then maybe we can start another thread ;)


Kazlauskas' two summers with the Greek NT have been full of irrationalities, horrible coaching and very ugly basketball. He was a puppet of the Federation, the guard duo of Zisis and Spanoulis were ruling the locker room and Sofo repeatedly showed disrespect to that coach. Apart from that, yes, they won a bronze medal by beating a dreadful Turkish team (playing away from Istanbul; that practically means they are harmless) which had been depending on Turkoglu and the kings of losers Slovenia, who had been battling injuries of very important players throughout the tournament and were led by a productive, yet physically exhausted Lakovic. All that, after having tried (and accidentally succeeded) to drop the group game against France in order to avoid Spain in the knock-out stage

Kazlauskas then was ridiculed in the 2010 WC by using the then-best European PG Diamantidis as a SF in order to keep both Zisis and Spanoulis in the same lineup covering the guard positions. Besides problems in chemistry, having DD playing off the ball, caused Diamantidis' decision to retire from the Greek NT at the age of 30. Greece was again ugly to watch and - of course - only barely qualified to the 2nd round, just to lose easily to a Gasol-less and Calderon-less Spain. The worst Spain of recent memory, to be more precise, led by a then-out of form Navarro and an inexperienced Marc Gasol as the premier big man. Ah, in that game, Nikos Zisis had had his best game with the NT in 5 years. Still Greece lost hands down in the 2nd half

Conclusion. Trinchieri, with a far better roster and most of the players in that roster having had career seasons in 2012-13 can do pretty well in this Eurobasket. Trinchieri is a very good coach, proven in Cantu, where he had two very good Euroleague seasons with a limited roster against much more talented teams. If he shows resistance to the federation and balances the locker room, then there is a good chance that Greece will go all the way in this Eurobasket, (obviously) because Spain is also not a full team

After this one sided comment i had feeeling that Kazlauskas is worst coach in the world and Trinchieri is best coach in europe :) You see he had good two season in euroleague...other only had euroleague trophy,olimpic medal,eurobasket medal yeah obviuos pick which coach is better its Trinchieri.If such strong and respected coach coundt handle what was going in that greek lockeroom, i just can say good luck for young coach to handle that...For young coach who havent even coach outside italy its gonna be heck of task ...There is big difference to coach team with limited tallent when expectation isnt high and very tallented team with big expectations.And trinchieri havent even been in national team competitions where its diferrence than 9 months coaching club basketball.
Dont get me wrong Trinchieri is very promising coach,but are you sure he will be enough to control Spanulis and other greek leaders ? Overall for foreigner to coach other nationla team is big presure,because if something goes wrong you know that all blame gonna be on you ...You can write about kazlauskas what ever you wont,but all from sabonis and our federation to biggest part our fans wanted him to comeback to our national team.This is lithuanias best coach and usually we are known to understand a little bit about basketball.All that negative things you wrote about kazlauskas its your opinion,but i have a feeling i and other lithuanians fans know better what kazlauskas its all about than you.But ok talk how good trinchieri is and how bad kazlauskas is .But dont forget to remember those words after eurobasket 2013 and overall in this olimpic circle.

Dorian
06-22-2013, 08:28 AM
That's interesting point, but I think you wrong if you think Greece is obviously faster. Im my eyes it's an open question. Let's just compare the fastest lineups which are overall very possible options in real game.

Actually no, my point was that Lithuania is not obviously faster. While this would have been true in previous tournaments, it is not the case this time round as Greece will be/can be very quick with the current roster.

I like your comparison however. Definitely agree that Valanciunas is faster than Greek 5s (and much better too) perhaps with the exception of Sofo who was mediocre at best this year and even so can give limited minutes. Having said that Bourousis is ok too.

Although the difference is probably marginal between the players you mentioned I would also say that Papanikolaou is certainly quicker than Kuzminskas but it does not matter that much anyway and we can go on and on about it. Also I would be shocked if Perperoglou made the team.

As I said, bottom line is that this will be a Greek team that will be able to run and I want to see how it works out for parts of the game with Calathes, Bramos, Papanikolaou, Printezis and Bourousis.


Lithuania will probably be even younger team than Greece.

Between the two preliminary teams Greece's average age is exactly one year less than Lithuania's. By removing Greece's three unlikely players to be called (Jankovic, Katsivelis, Pappas) Greece is younger by one month and by what I think will be the final rosters Lithuania will be younger by one month on average.

UMUT_FB_LAL
06-22-2013, 09:34 AM
I expect that Turkey probably won't make it to the World Cup. The coach is still unknown and there are a lot of uncertainties. But then again there is a glimmer of hope inside of me that feels like it based on something. I don't know. Can still not understand how they still haven't signed Ergin Ataman.

wardjdim
06-22-2013, 10:50 AM
With Reyes, Gasol brothers and Navarro out and still maybe Calderon, Rudy and Mirotic in doubt (well, Mirotic won't be definite unless Ibaka doesn't commit), I am not so sure about the Spanish roster. Either way, names such Aguilar's, Xavi Rey's and Sada's could be brought up in the final roster discussion, as well as the youngsters' Rabaseda and Abrines. This could be a very different Spanish NT, highly likely the worst since the 1998 one

As for France - which is right now on top of my list along with Greece, Noah remains a question mark and he is still a bit more important than Parker, for the simple reason of bringing over so many good things that the rest of the frontcourt completely lacks of. True, Boris Diaw is a frontcourt-only player now but he is fat and undersized and despite his great basketball IQ he cannot last for long stretches and cannot defend at Noah's level. In other words, Noah is the sole distributor+defender that France has. If they lose him, I'm afraid that they no longer have realistic chances to be considered a top-tier team. And that is even with Parker in. Parker, who knows very well that even if injured, it will deserve the pain to give it a last shot for a gold medal now than next year with an old yet full-team Spain and a U.S. team that will always have more talent than the rest of the competition

However, the same story can happen for Greece as well, if the team's stars dominate Trinchieri as some posters previously warned. The Italian has worked with much friendlier characters in Cantu than the ones he will meet in Athens. But here, we must have a locker room suicide ala Yugoslavia or Turkey in the thrilling Eurobasket 2005 in order to get Greece out of the top spot. Especially with the opponents starting to lose more and more star players and Greece having all of them playing and the worst nightmare being deciding which the final roster will be

pimpekaustas
06-22-2013, 12:35 PM
1. france 2. greece 3. ??? it can be anybody... except croatia... we will suck as usual... but i'm looking forward to see how good Šarić and Hezonja can be right now, thats the only thing i'm interested to see from croatia. ukić, tomić, bogdanović, barać, žorić... pliiiiiiz frightened losers and i don't get why all croatian basketball players are so oversensitive with wrong mentality, god knows in other sports we dont have a lack of cockiness, only in basketball :S

wardjdim
06-22-2013, 12:38 PM
Yes, but Croatia does have again a deep roster that in numerous cases has proven it belongs to the elite but character and local coaches prevent it from reaching it potential

wardjdim
06-22-2013, 06:57 PM
Marc Gasol, a top3 center in the NBA these days, will most likely be available for the Eurobasket. This changes several things, especially if Rudy and Mirotic lso play
https://twitter.com/MarcGasol/status/348356839961923584

auris1
06-22-2013, 08:41 PM
My wish is for someone ,and I am looking at you wardjim,who would approach this topic from different perspective.
Instead of thinking in terms of what team can win this championship,and lining other teams likelihood there after ,maybe one could start with the teams who can not win and make the way up to the very top.
When you eliminated the impossible ,whatever remains,however improbable,must be the truth.
Famous quote,and if it worked for Sherlock,I see no reason why it should not work here)
So,in layman words,instead of -this team is going to win because of this and that,I would want to see posts saying - this team ain't going to win because of x and y

G&B
06-23-2013, 08:15 AM
Agreed.



If you think Lithuania will be a faster team than this year's Greek NT you live in cloud cuckoo land.


For those who talk about cuckoo land, apparently yourself out there if you do not follow the European players' abilities.
Lithuania front line as fast here in Europe unambiguously without competition the fastest, while the rear and has a very controversial and perhaps Calathes more technical than Kalnietis, but the speed and athleticism he is far from Kalnietis exactly the same as comparing and Spanulis Pocius, Spanulis a lot more technical but the start throttle speed to Pocius Europe, the fastest, and even athletics like night and day different.

A bit of history: Greece had never won over the full composition of the Lithuanian team, perhaps the only period of 2005-2007, when Lithuania had waived its right to play and a lot of injured players and actually played the third composition, even the EC-2011 bearing a serious loss team has been higher than Greece.
And this year we have maybe just one loss sniper and defense pillar Jasaitis, but I think it is fully offset rising star Kuzminskas.

Dorian
06-23-2013, 10:26 AM
A bit of history: Greece had never won over the full composition of the Lithuanian team, perhaps the only period of 2005-2007, when Lithuania had waived its right to play and a lot of injured players and actually played the third composition, even the EC-2011 bearing a serious loss team has been higher than Greece.
And this year we have maybe just one loss sniper and defense pillar Jasaitis, but I think it is fully offset rising star Kuzminskas.

Sorry I did not appreciate this before. In the light of this argument I do have to retract and categorically agree that Lithuania is much faster than this year's Greek team.

Joško Poljak Fan
06-23-2013, 10:43 AM
Agreed... Kalnietis, Pocious and Jasaitis are so fast I haven't noticed them play for a few seasons or so.

Buzissa
06-23-2013, 11:53 AM
Mirotic does not want to be called only when Ibaka is not available. He wants the guarantee from the federation in that regard before committing with Spain. Otherwise Niko will play for Montenegro in Eurobasket 2013.
http://www.marca.com/2013/06/23/baloncesto/seleccion/1371969438.html

rikhardur
06-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Mirotic does not want to be called only when Ibaka is not available. He wants the guarantee from the federation in that regard before committing with Spain. Otherwise Niko will play for Montenegro in Eurobasket 2013.
http://www.marca.com/2013/06/23/baloncesto/seleccion/1371969438.html
I'd be delighted if he played for Montenegro. Anyway, this is why the Spanish federation wants two foreigners per NT...

wardjdim
06-24-2013, 01:37 AM
The Mirotic issue will be again the drama of the summer :-)

Whoever gets him is automatically a medal contender, maybe a gold contender, if this is Spain, under certain circumstances. And it is a very simple reason for that drama. Spain doesn't need him when Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol and Reyes are all in. Then Ibaka (technically and offensively inferior) becomes a great addition as a banger

But this is a bad summer to play poker since Vucevic, Pekovic and Dubljevic are all returning from career seasons, so his competition will also be fierce in Montenegro

wardjdim
06-24-2013, 01:32 PM
http://www.catch-and-shoot.com/livenews/edf-la-pre-selection-pour-leuro-devoilee/2013/

France without Noah. Instead Turiaf (!) along with the inexperienced at the National level Ajinca

That's pretty sad news for France who can make it far even without the Bulls' center, but we have all seen how difficult it has been for them to win a gold medal without him

Joško Poljak Fan
06-24-2013, 02:26 PM
I actualy do belive Noah was the difference maker last championship, not Parker or Batum. France remains the no.1 favourite as far as I am concerned but they seem much less dominant now.

Victorious
06-24-2013, 03:13 PM
Can't see why France is considered to be so dominant. They were quarter finalists in the last olympics. The Eurobasket before that, they made the finals, but since the quarter finals they had some close games in which they could easily have lost one. In the finals against Spain, they were clearly overpowered. And this with Noah. So, Russia is without Kirilenko, France without Noah. I think that these teams will be beatable. I also think that Spain will be very strong. They lost some great players, but their substitutes are first class players. Not to mention that they will have less pressure now.

pimpekaustas
06-24-2013, 04:08 PM
if i was montenegrian i certainly wouldnt like mirotić in my team... he likes money more than his country (which is OK, i prefer money too :D), so why should he play.

wardjdim
06-24-2013, 04:57 PM
Victorious.. If Greece goes full team, then their only problem will be locker room. Not even chemistry. Greece is right now the clear #1 in my rankings

Besides, not that it matters of course, France is also missing Seraphin and that's their thinnest in the post I can ever remember. But the French backcourt (if Parker plays) is better than the Greek or the Spanish one. It's just that Greece, again, has more potential with such depth and balance in every position

Shawshank
06-25-2013, 04:06 PM
If parker comes to eurobasket france is nr 1 favourite.Noah effort no doubt is great,but even without Noah france bigs can defend and do it really well .But what parker brings is offence,easy layups and dunks for bigs and scores alot by himself.Without parker France is strungling to score 70 points,because everyone is zoning them and they are missing half free 3points shots its was boring to watch france team in 2010 they just couldnt score :)...But with parker they are able to score 70+ and everyone knows score on them 70 is very hard for everyone.I would better wish that france came with Noah and seraphin and without parker in that case france wouldnt worry me ,but with parker france is the only team i wouldnt like to see my team playing in 1/4...They are just too athletic and has argubly best europe player of 2013...

Toxicity
06-25-2013, 10:16 PM
If parker comes to eurobasket france is nr 1 favourite.Noah effort no doubt is great,but even without Noah france bigs can defend and do it really well .But what parker brings is offence,easy layups and dunks for bigs and scores alot by himself.Without parker France is strungling to score 70 points,because everyone is zoning them and they are missing half free 3points shots its was boring to watch france team in 2010 they just couldnt score :)...But with parker they are able to score 70+ and everyone knows score on them 70 is very hard for everyone.I would better wish that france came with Noah and seraphin and without parker in that case france wouldnt worry me ,but with parker france is the only team i wouldnt like to see my team playing in 1/4...They are just too athletic and has argubly best europe player of 2013...

Agree. TP is the real difference maker for France... Noah is a very good big ma not as dominant in FIBA basketball as he's in the NBA...

Joško Poljak Fan
06-25-2013, 11:20 PM
Well, when you're left with Turiaf, Diaw, Pietrus trio, which we've all seen giving it all yet not enough for great results many times before in French NT, as most of the time they were the liability preventing the team from reaching higher, foul prone Ajinca and young Lavergne and Tillie, than missing Noah (along Mahinmi and Seraphin) isn't something to diminish in any way.

French coach will have some tactical covering up to do, if unsuccesfull Parker alone isn't enough to win gold as it was pretty obvious on previous eurobaskets. Support of Batum, Fournier and other great players on the perimeter surely promises they should be playing better compared to 09, 07, 05, but in my eyes without Noah (or Seraphin+Mahinmi for that matter) they've just became a very good medal contender instead of the clear cut no.1 favourite.

Straight forward
06-28-2013, 04:58 PM
Agree. TP is the real difference maker for France... Noah is a very good big ma not as dominant in FIBA basketball as he's in the NBA...

He's not dominant in NBA as well. At the moment there is no dominant centers in NBA. No Shaq's or Hakeem's impact. Those were dominant.

Toxicity
06-28-2013, 08:02 PM
He's not dominant in NBA as well. At the moment there is no dominant centers in NBA. No Shaq's or Hakeem's impact. Those were dominant.

Yeah, of course i didn't mean that kind of domination... it was just a comparison between him so valuable in the NBA (difense, energy, toughness, etc) and much less in FIBA basketball imho.

madmax
06-28-2013, 11:16 PM
exactly...Noah's intangibles (energy, rebounding, motor) can easily be replaced by another french defensively oriented bigman, of which there are still plenty. French NT's biggest problem was always not defense, but offensive side of basketball. And that's where Parker's offensive brilliance is a saving grace for this team - because even with all those athletes on the team, somebody still has to generate buckets. And Tony does it better than any other european guard at the moment.:cool:

auris1
06-29-2013, 06:21 PM
exactly...Noah's intangibles (energy, rebounding, motor) can easily be replaced by another french defensively oriented bigman, of which there are still plenty. French NT's biggest problem was always not defense, but offensive side of basketball. And that's where Parker's offensive brilliance is a saving grace for this team - because even with all those athletes on the team, somebody still has to generate buckets. And Tony does it better than any other european guard at the moment.:cool:
http://www.eurobasket2011.com/en/cid_4,w7QjPeH-M,ty138LH2l3.teamID_282.compID_qMRZdYCZI6EoANOrUf9 le2.season_2011.roundID_7991.playerID_28162.html

Tony Parker

Participations in FIBA Europe competitions PPG RPG APG
Olympic Games: Tournament for Men 2012 (France) 15.7 2.8 3.2
EuroBasket - Final Round 2011 (France) 22.1 3.5 4.4
London Invitational Tournament 2011 (France) 22.0 5.0 2.8
EuroBasket - Final Round 2009 (France) 17.8 3.9 4.4
EuroBasket - DIVISION A 2009 (France) 21.2 3.2 2.5
EuroBasket - Final Round 2007 (France) 20.1 3.3 2.8
Stankovic Continental Champions Cup 2006 (France) 12.7 5.0 3.3
EuroBasket - Final Round 2005 (France) 11.9 2.3 2.9
European Championship - Final Round 2003 18.0 2.8 3.2
European Championship for Young Men - Q 2002 25.8 3.0 6.8
European Championship for Men - Final 2001 8.7 1.8 1.8
Saporta Cup 2001 (Paris Basket Racing) 14.3 1.8 3.1
European Championship for Junior Men - F 2000 14.4 2.8 2.5
European Ch for Junior Men - Preliminary 2000 17.2 3.8 7.2
Saporta Cup 2000 (Paris Basket Racing) 5.8 0.9 1.8
European Ch for Junior Men - Q Round 2000 (France) 16.5 3.0 3.3
European Ch for Junior Men - F Round 1998 (France) 11.7 0.9 1.6
European Ch for Cadets - Final Round 1997 (France) 11.6 3.3 3.5

So what to expect- 20 PPG,3 RPG and 4 APG?
Pretty impressive,if he can manage to get close my estimates

wardjdim
06-29-2013, 11:42 PM
Whatever Parker does is not enough (at least thus far) for France to win gold. True, Diaw, Batum, De Colo and Fournier are great contributors. I'd dare to say that Batum might be the best swingman in this Eurobasket. But again.. I am having the same feeling that they miss a distributor in the paint. Noah is not about defense and hustling. Is also about passing and basketball IQ. The rest of the French bigs (ok, Diaw, since he gained all that weight is a post player) are not passers at all

I just don't know. I don't see pieces gluing for this team, but I somehow hope they do

pohani komarac
06-29-2013, 11:51 PM
exactly...Noah's intangibles (energy, rebounding, motor) can easily be replaced by another french defensively oriented bigman, of which there are still plenty. French NT's biggest problem was always not defense, but offensive side of basketball. And that's where Parker's offensive brilliance is a saving grace for this team - because even with all those athletes on the team, somebody still has to generate buckets. And Tony does it better than any other european guard at the moment.:cool:

They were 2nd best team in europe over last few years, but got screwed from playing fair facing Spain in QF. With Parker and no Gasol they are main favorites to take it all

auris1
06-30-2013, 12:15 AM
They were 2nd best team in europe over last few years, but got screwed from playing fair facing Spain in QF. With Parker and no Gasol they are main favorites to take it all

How come?
If Marc is playing,he would be the one to watch,no?

G&B
07-25-2013, 10:49 AM
I think that the tournament is just three very strong teams: France, Lithuania, and Spain (no matter in what order)

Chopin
07-25-2013, 03:30 PM
I think that the tournament is just three very strong teams: France, Lithuania, and Spain (no matter in what order)

For me, the heavy favourites for the medals are Spain, Greece and France in that order. Lithuania lacks great pg-s to be in that group. But of course there are always surprises and I have a feeling this Eurobasket is destined for surprises.

G&B
07-25-2013, 07:26 PM
Maybe this Lithuanian team point guard is the weakest spot, but here is not as bad Kalnietis is sufficiently high-level point guard play fast Lithuania game. Bearing in mind that the other positions just completed a wonderfully as like many Lithuanian fans in wait for just the gold in the worst case, silver.

Chopin
07-26-2013, 01:07 AM
Maybe this Lithuanian team point guard is the weakest spot, but here is not as bad Kalnietis is sufficiently high-level point guard play fast Lithuania game. Bearing in mind that the other positions just completed a wonderfully as like many Lithuanian fans in wait for just the gold in the worst case, silver.

Also many Slovenian fans expect nothing less than a medal on this home Eurobasket, but the wishes of the fans doesnt make it too realistic and someone (probably coach and players) will suffer from too much criticism because of the unrealistic expectations.
Based on the potenial (experience and talent) of the players and the potential of other teams I predict Lithuania from 3-8 positions. :cool:

Anyway, 1/4 final and 1/2 final are both only one game so a lot is possible and not necessarly a better team wins. If there would be a series it could be 4-1 for one team, but who says that the one win of the worse team can not happen on the good night in 1/4 final. :D

G&B
07-26-2013, 05:47 AM
I personally think that this Lithuanian team to their potentials may take 1-5 places if it were up to three match series 1-2 places. Does not take place prize would be a great team unfortunate much more unfortunate than the house championship EC-2011 because now a much better team composition

kalashnikov
07-26-2013, 05:05 PM
I personally think that this Lithuanian team to their potentials may take 1-5 places if it were up to three match series 1-2 places. Does not take place prize would be a great team unfortunate much more unfortunate than the house championship EC-2011 because now a much better team composition

With Kalnietis and Juskevicius as PG, anything above 6th place will be a success.

This PG combination is really an embarrassment for the country who gave the world with Jasikevicius and Marculionis

Straight forward
07-26-2013, 09:08 PM
This argument that Lithuania can't do a thing without a world class PG became enormously trivial in these forums...

Besides, Lithuanian fans should already know that Lithuania never tops prediction anywhere no matter the roster.

I remember 2007 predictions. No matter Šaras, Šiškauskas, Kaukėnas, Songaila, Kleiza on the team, most people saw Lithuania as 4-6 material.

Not that I complaining, it's just how people treat Lithuania somehow. Probably still that syndrome of small country or something.

macleopard13
07-27-2013, 03:31 AM
This argument that Lithuania can't do a thing without a world class PG became enormously trivial in these forums...

Besides, Lithuanian fans should already know that Lithuania never tops prediction anywhere no matter the roster.

I remember 2007 predictions. No matter Šaras, Šiškauskas, Kaukėnas, Songaila, Kleiza on the team, most people saw Lithuania as 4-6 material.

Not that I complaining, it's just how people treat Lithuania somehow. Probably still that syndrome of small country or something.


We're a small country with a lot of passion and motivation.

Here is my own Top 8 ranking based on the candidate lists:
1. France (not so much the star-studded team it was two years ago, but still a sturdy team with Parker, Diaw and Batum forming the meat of the team)
2. Spain (doesn't have P. Gasol, Navarro or Ibaka, but still a solid team with M. Gasol, Fernandez and Calderon)
3. Lithuania (excellent coach, many fast players; ideally, Kleiza, Maciulis, Kalnietis, Valanciunas will form the core of the team)
4. Slovenia (has fast guards and decent big men, as well as the home court advantage; the squad did quite well two years ago too)
5. Greece (a pretty good team, but several missing players handicap them a little; still, the core of the team is present - Spanoulis, Bourousis, Papanikolau, Printezis)
6. Montenegro (has very solid big men, but weak guards; nevertheless, a team that shouldn't be taken lightly)
7. Russia (it would be surprising if this team did as well as the team two years ago; however, Russia is still a young team with several good NT players, and could still do decently)
8. Croatia (the team has several good players; if the team chemistry works out, they could certainly upset some teams)

Just missed the mark: Serbia, a slightly weaker roster than Croatia.

pimpekaustas
07-27-2013, 11:28 AM
lithuanian fans and their famous objectivity :rolleyes: (i know i know basketball is the only sport you are any good at). putting lithuania ahead of greece is ridicilous

madmax
07-27-2013, 11:40 AM
lithuanian fans and their famous objectivity :rolleyes: (i know i know basketball is the only sport you are any good at). putting lithuania ahead of greece is ridicilous

that's quite rich coming from a croatian with a lithuanian flag in his avatar...:rolleyes: Now that is what you call a curious case of bipolar identity crisis.

pablonis
07-27-2013, 04:08 PM
lithuanian :rolleyes: (i know i know basketball is the only sport you are any good at)


Country - population - London Olympics medal count (Gold/Silver/Bronze)


Greece - 10,8 million - 2 medals (0/0/2)
Croatia - 4,3 million - 6 medals (3/1/2)
Lithuania - 3 million - 5 medals (2/1/2)

wardjdim
07-27-2013, 04:33 PM
Stupid posters all the time. Here it's a thread about predictions. Not about expressing wishes. The conclusions is the point not what happened in the past or what you wish to happen here. I might want Serbia to win it all but this doesn't make them #1 favorite, does it? Damn.. Can't you just put the names of the players, the years they play together, the coaching stuff, the federation, all down in a post and explain WHY someone is ranked 1st, then 2nd, 3rd etc.? Is that so difficult?

Miškinis
07-27-2013, 04:44 PM
If someone is interested there are "Power Rankings" of Eurobasket 2013 teams. The material is provided by FIBA "experts" (they call themselves this way). It is updated every two weeks. Here's the last one (you can easiy find the other 12): http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_TsLUIQDwGE-s57X41SkfC1.articleMode_on.html

Dorian
07-27-2013, 05:39 PM
Country - population - London Olympics medal count (Gold/Silver/Bronze)


Greece - 10,8 million - 2 medals (0/0/2)
Croatia - 4,3 million - 6 medals (3/1/2)
Lithuania - 3 million - 5 medals (2/1/2)

Don't embarrass yourself. Why don't you show this table 1992 onwards to capture the wider notion of good in sports? Also add on that world championships etc.

In reality in Lithuania it's all about basketball. This does come at the expense of other sports but obviously this is a good approach given the population.

pimpekaustas
07-27-2013, 05:54 PM
Country - population - London Olympics medal count (Gold/Silver/Bronze)


Greece - 10,8 million - 2 medals (0/0/2)
Croatia - 4,3 million - 6 medals (3/1/2)
Lithuania - 3 million - 5 medals (2/1/2)

sorry man, facts are croatia is superpower in almoust every team sport, lithuania only in basketball. i wouldnt brought this up, but some posters from lithuania are way to arrogant

macleopard13
07-27-2013, 11:45 PM
Stupid posters all the time. Here it's a thread about predictions. Not about expressing wishes. The conclusions is the point not what happened in the past or what you wish to happen here. I might want Serbia to win it all but this doesn't make them #1 favorite, does it? Damn.. Can't you just put the names of the players, the years they play together, the coaching stuff, the federation, all down in a post and explain WHY someone is ranked 1st, then 2nd, 3rd etc.? Is that so difficult?

That would be hard to do since a couple of teams are similar in strength, like Greece, Slovenia and Lithuania. Naturally, I'm biased and want my team to be the best out of the three, but I know when a team is a level above other teams.



sorry man, facts are croatia is superpower in almoust every team sport, lithuania only in basketball. i wouldnt brought this up, but some posters from lithuania are way to arrogant

Troll alert: pimpekaustas is actually cheering for the Croatian NT. Just look at his posting history. Shame on him!

Straight forward
07-27-2013, 11:49 PM
That would be hard to do since a couple of teams are similar in strength, like Greece, Slovenia and Lithuania. Naturally, I'm biased and want my team to be the best out of the three, but I know when a team is a level above other teams.

:D How do you know that Greece, Slovenia, Lithuania are similar in terms of strenght?

Hepcat
07-28-2013, 12:13 AM
sorry man, facts are croatia is superpower in almoust every team sport....

Hockey is the only other international team sport I follow more than casually. Latvia I see in the standings; Croatia, not yet.

;)

wardjdim
07-28-2013, 10:45 AM
That would be hard to do since a couple of teams are similar in strength, like Greece, Slovenia and Lithuania. Naturally, I'm biased and want my team to be the best out of the three, but I know when a team is a level above other teams.

1st.. On what standard are Greece, Slovenia and Lithuania similar in strength and, in parallel, worse than France and Spain (or Montenegro)?
2nd.. Is "I am biased" an expression of stupidity? It's rankings we are writing down. The fact that you are Lithuanian does not affect the final outcome of a tournament

macleopard13
07-28-2013, 03:49 PM
1st.. On what standard are Greece, Slovenia and Lithuania similar in strength and, in parallel, worse than France and Spain (or Montenegro)?
2nd.. Is "I am biased" an expression of stupidity? It's rankings we are writing down. The fact that you are Lithuanian does not affect the final outcome of a tournament

Let's rerank the teams based on a simple system (I know that being poor in NBA doesn't always translate to being great in Euroleague, but I'm assuming those are the levels of players):
6 - great in NBA
5 - average in NBA
4 - great in Euroleague/poor in NBA
3 - average in Euroleague
2 - beast in Eurocup/poor in Euroleague
1 - average in Eurocup

Spain:
* Gasol - 6
* Claver - 3.5 (I'll concede here; he's not a leader in Euroleague)
* San Emeterio - 3
* Fernandez - 4
* Rubio - 5
* Calderon - 5
* Llull - 3
* Rodriguez - 3
TOTAL: 32.5

France:
* Huertel - 3
* Diaw - 5
* Batum - 5
* De Colo - 3.5
* Parker - 6
* Gelabale - 4
* Fournier - 4
* Westermann - 2.5
TOTAL: 33

Lithuania:
* Valanciunas - 5
* Kleiza - 4
* Maciulis - 3
* Seibutis - 2.5
* Kalnietis - 2.5
* Motiejunas - 4
* Lavrinovic - 3
* Javtokas - 2.5
TOTAL: 26.5

Greece:
* Bourousis - 4
* Printezis - 4
* Papanikolaou - 3
* Vasileadis - 2.5
* Spanoulis - 4.5
* Vougioukas - 2.5
* Mavrokefalidis - 2
* Sloukas - 2.5
TOTAL: 25

Jon_Koncak
07-28-2013, 04:17 PM
How a team whose back court is consisted of Spanoulis,Zisis and Sloukas (one great COMBO guard and two meh point guards) is considered hot favorite to win it all is beyond me.

Italian Pride
07-28-2013, 04:39 PM
Let's rerank the teams based on a simple system (I know that being poor in NBA doesn't always translate to being great in Euroleague, but I'm assuming those are the levels of players):
6 - great in NBA
5 - average in NBA
4 - great in Euroleague/poor in NBA
3 - average in Euroleague
2 - beast in Eurocup/poor in Euroleague
1 - average in Eurocup

Spain:
* Gasol - 6
* Claver - 3.5 (I'll concede here; he's not a leader in Euroleague)
* San Emeterio - 3
* Fernandez - 4
* Rubio - 5
* Calderon - 5
* Llull - 3
* Rodriguez - 3
TOTAL: 32.5

France:
* Huertel - 3
* Diaw - 5
* Batum - 5
* De Colo - 3.5
* Parker - 6
* Gelabale - 4
* Fournier - 4
* Westermann - 2.5
TOTAL: 33

Lithuania:
* Valanciunas - 5
* Kleiza - 4
* Maciulis - 3
* Seibutis - 2.5
* Kalnietis - 2.5
* Motiejunas - 4
* Lavrinovic - 3
* Javtokas - 2.5
TOTAL: 26.5

Greece:
* Bourousis - 4
* Printezis - 4
* Papanikolaou - 3
* Vasileadis - 2.5
* Spanoulis - 4.5
* Vougioukas - 2.5
* Mavrokefalidis - 2
* Sloukas - 2.5
TOTAL: 25
Italy:
*Bargnani -5
*Belinelli -5
*Datome -4
*Hackett - 3
*Aradori -3
*Gentile -2,5
*t.diener -3
*Melli -2

TOTAL:27,5

in this way italy is better than greece,LOL...

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 05:03 PM
Let's rerank the teams based on a simple system (I know that being poor in NBA doesn't always translate to being great in Euroleague, but I'm assuming those are the levels of players):
6 - great in NBA
5 - average in NBA
4 - great in Euroleague/poor in NBA
3 - average in Euroleague
2 - beast in Eurocup/poor in Euroleague
1 - average in Eurocup

Spain:
* Gasol - 6
* Claver - 3.5 (I'll concede here; he's not a leader in Euroleague)
* San Emeterio - 3
* Fernandez - 4
* Rubio - 5
* Calderon - 5
* Llull - 3
* Rodriguez - 3
TOTAL: 32.5

France:
* Huertel - 3
* Diaw - 5
* Batum - 5
* De Colo - 3.5
* Parker - 6
* Gelabale - 4
* Fournier - 4
* Westermann - 2.5
TOTAL: 33

Lithuania:
* Valanciunas - 5
* Kleiza - 4
* Maciulis - 3
* Seibutis - 2.5
* Kalnietis - 2.5
* Motiejunas - 4
* Lavrinovic - 3
* Javtokas - 2.5
TOTAL: 26.5

Greece:
* Bourousis - 4
* Printezis - 4
* Papanikolaou - 3
* Vasileadis - 2.5
* Spanoulis - 4.5
* Vougioukas - 2.5
* Mavrokefalidis - 2
* Sloukas - 2.5
TOTAL: 25

Macleopard I applaud you for at least trying to establish a somewhat rational ranking methodology. That is more than can be said for most other posters. But, having said that, your method is pretty flawed. One way to test the quality of your rankings method is to apply it to past tournaments and see how predictive it is of success at that tournament. 2012 Olympics and 2011 Eurobasket would be excellent test cases. I am interested to see the results. In the meantime, perhaps others will propose their own ranking methods.

some other factors that could be used:
- experience (# of eurobaskets played per player or on average for the team)
- a refinement of your player evaluation to include quality of domestic league and team placement in Euroleague (winner, runner-up, QF, etc.)
- minutes played per game (are the players role players or stars on their teams)
- average age (is there a desired range for average age? studying past winning teams might be revealing)
- performance rating - Index rating in past Euroleague season and/or Index rating in past Eurobasket

etc.

Italian Pride
07-28-2013, 05:21 PM
some other factors that could be used:
- experience (# of eurobaskets played per player or on average for the team)
- a refinement of your player evaluation to include quality of domestic league and team placement in Euroleague (winner, runner-up, QF, etc.)
- minutes played per game (are the players role players or stars on their teams)
- average age (is there a desired range for average age? studying past winning teams might be revealing)
- performance rating - Index rating in past Euroleague season and/or Index rating in past Eurobasket

etc.
i completely agree with your post...

in my opinion Greece,France,Spain and Montenegro have something more than other NT...

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 05:31 PM
Another approach is to assign fantasy values for each player (I know that a team is often more or less than the sum of its parts, but this approach can be useful as a rough approximation of team strength). Sportscity will have a Eurobasket fantasy game (http://www.thesportcity.net/f_manager_control.php?mseason_id=13&page=1) I'm sure so we will be able to check our valuation against theirs before the Eurobasket begins. Sportscity assigns values from 0 to 20,000+. Once the rosters start to get finalized in the next few weeks we can begin to assign such values and see how the teams stack up; then we can check our guesses with Sportcity's prices once they are revealed.

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 06:03 PM
Here are the starting and ending Sportcity fantasy prices and cumulative performance index ratings for players on quarterfinal teams at Eurobasket 2011, ranked in descending order by final fantasy price.

5789

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 06:05 PM
next batch is here5790

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 06:08 PM
next batch is here
5791

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 06:11 PM
next batch is here5792

christodoulou76
07-28-2013, 06:15 PM
last batch here5793

Chopin
07-28-2013, 09:18 PM
@Macleopard

Nice try, but I dont agree with your method, but you should work on it to make it better of course.

Euroleague leaders like Spanoulis that carried his tem (Oly) to win the Euroleague twice in a row can not have less value as Diaw for example. You overrate NBA players in your evaluation. Papanikolau can not be considered avarage Euroleague player, if he has a rising star throphy, one of the leaders of the champion, first in 3point % in the whole season in the Euroleague and ane of the most payed players in Europe right now (a leader in Barca).

Are Rubio and Calderon really avarage pg-s in NBA? I would say they are very good there. Decolo should have 4, Claver can not have more as Lull, Rodriguez and San Emeterio (all three are good Euroleague players playing big roles in the best clubs in the continent)...

Maybe you should change it to something like this: Great in Euroleague=at least avarage in NBA and in some cases they can even be almost equall to great in NBA, like Spanoulis vs Calderon. And there should be a superstar of the NBA rating (for M. Gasol and Parker ;) ).

Next thing you should try to do, if you have time is to mathematically define what great in Euroleage/NBA means. Maybe with the statistics/index avarage in the league and some subjective observations, like status in the team and leadership skills/impact for the team... In the end, a better index could be done, but it would still be subjective. If you have too much time you can try ;).

Then we could maybe weighten your index with per minute of play and impact on the team, because some players will play 30 min per game and others 10 min per game for example so the impact of some players are more important than the impact of the others. For example if you predict that San Emeterio will play only 5 min per game, his 4 evaluation can not be taken as so imporant in the team evaluation as Bourousises 4 if he plays more than 20 min.

macleopard13
07-28-2013, 09:56 PM
Yeah, I will work on my method of rankings. I think the coach should be factored in as well - after all, a crappy coach with good players won't get as far as a great coach with decent players.

taybot14
07-28-2013, 10:38 PM
Let's rerank the teams based on a simple system (I know that being poor in NBA doesn't always translate to being great in Euroleague, but I'm assuming those are the levels of players):
6 - great in NBA
5 - average in NBA
4 - great in Euroleague/poor in NBA
3 - average in Euroleague
2 - beast in Eurocup/poor in Euroleague
1 - average in Eurocup



Of course average player in NBA are not all good in Euroleague, a lot can't do anything there, and can be less good than an average in euroleague.
so it's complicate to find a good method, cause it's so different from europe to america to judge them.

For exemple Navarro "at his best" is as good as a star of NBA, and in games between spain and usa he has even more influence and is better than us stars in their team.

macleopard13
07-29-2013, 02:57 AM
OK, I did some calculations today. The desirable average age for a team seems to be, more or less, 26.5 years. I looked at the winners of three Eurobaskets.

EUROBASKET 2011:
1. Spain - 26.3 years
2. France - 25.9 years
3. Russia - 25.3 years
-----------------------------
4. Macedonia - 26.8 years
5. Lithuania - 29.1 years
6. Greece - 25.3 years
7. Slovenia - 27.2 years
8. Serbia - 24.6 years

EUROBASKET 2009:
1. Spain - 26.5 years
2. Serbia - 22.5 years
3. Greece - 25.4 years

EUROBASKET 2007:
1. Russia - 26.8 years
2. Spain - 26.3 years
3. Lithuania - 26.8 years

UMUT_FB_LAL
07-29-2013, 03:40 AM
There are infinite roads that lead to Rome imo

G&B
07-30-2013, 06:02 PM
How do you rate the Lithuanian national team opportunities?

Rimantas Kaukėnas answered

"I appreciate very well - all young, healthy, ambitious. I think, in real terms, will be prizemen, and if you do well, I think that they could fight for the gold."



I think for the Lithuanian team betting firm will build a substantial sum of money in 2003 won a pretty penny very good success is reason to hope, then the true rate was better since the beginning when erect money betting firms only 9 position predicted.




The reason for this would be:
1. many players young and fully mature as players showing steady good results: Mačiulis Kalnietis, Seibutis, Kuzminskas
2.is an experienced veteran: Lavrinovič brothers, Javtokas who know how to fight for medals
3. individually talented but hungry basketball players because of injuries: Kleiza, Pocius, Motiejunas (to its ambitions)
4. According to the NBA expert Valanciunas this year may not only be a dominant center in Europe, but also in a next season in the NBA.
5.The team has 12 players wide-ranging, can show results


I'm not rating this as the basis to believe, but nevertheless some people think like that.
http://www.fibaeurope.com/coid_TsLUIQDwGE-s57X41SkfC1.articleMode_on.html

madmax
07-30-2013, 07:32 PM
damn...you gotta love google translate:D

Straight forward
07-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Lithuanian kids found the way to demoralize interbasket - google translate!

Hepcat
07-31-2013, 05:52 PM
Which better translation programs would you suggest?

:confused:

Straight forward
07-31-2013, 07:55 PM
Which better translation programs would you suggest?

:confused:

Learning English program.

auris1
07-31-2013, 08:01 PM
Learning English program.
Hopefully he will.
Maybe he is taking baby steps? Who knows?
Or maybe google translate will improve so much one day that we will never notice the difference.
I use spell -checker all the time,but by no means my english is bad.
Maybe because i am always like to be drinking when i post here,it is kind of necessity for me

YellowGreenRed
08-02-2013, 07:03 PM
Systransoft for ex.
one of the best among those.

Raz
08-05-2013, 04:13 PM
In my opinion,Spain remains the strongest team,even without Gasol and Navarro.There are not many Rudys an Marc Gasols in the tournament.After that,the only teams capable of posing a threat are Greece (an enigma for me in terms of chemistry and the new coach's work) and Lithuania,despite the mediocre roster they're fielding up to SF position.They're a powerhouse after all.

Italy is a good team,but lacks cohesion and team spirit.And a good PG.

Turkey's frontline is very good,but their guards are mostly a joke.

France is a good team,with good guards overall,but their quality stops there.

The other teams (even the hosts) are not very strong,with the exception of Croatia,which can be the surprise of the tournament.They have the quality,but i don't know how they work as a team.

Too bad for Russia,they could compete for a medal,but what's happening to them is horrifying.It's like someone has put a curse on them.

Italian Pride
08-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Italy is a good team,but lacks cohesion and team spirit.And a good PG.

isn't travis diener a good pg in your opinion?uhmmm i disagree with you...

Raz
08-05-2013, 07:13 PM
isn't travis diener a good pg in your opinion?uhmmm i disagree with you...

Uhmmm...good,but not anywhere near enough (sheesh,a team with ONE PG?).I mean no disrespect.I've loved italian teams from time to time,but that's just my opinion.

Italian Pride
08-05-2013, 09:21 PM
Uhmmm...good,but not anywhere near enough (sheesh,a team with ONE PG?).I mean no disrespect.I've loved italian teams from time to time,but that's just my opinion.

his back-up will be cinciarini,that in last year has improved lot playing 30minutes average in reggio emilia and in my opinion is a nice back-up.. :)

Raz
08-05-2013, 09:25 PM
his back-up will be cinciarini,that in last year has improved lot playing 30minutes average in reggio emilia and in my opinion is a nice back-up.. :)

Maybe i'm wrong.I don't know much of the guy,but i don't think they stand a chance against the likes of Spain,France tc.

Italian Pride
08-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Maybe i'm wrong.I don't know much of the guy,but i don't think they stand a chance against the likes of Spain,France tc.

i think that spain,france,greece e maybe montenegro have something more than us and other NT...

about italy,we have more talented compared to the last 4-5 years but without hackett we have poor men defenders among the guards and for this reason i think we won't be a medal contender...

so our task will be to finish in the top 8 and qualify to the world cup...

Raz
08-05-2013, 09:58 PM
Yeah,i know.It's too bad though because you have some really good players (Bargnani,Bellineli,Gallinari,although the last won't play) but there is a lack of depth,as with most NTs.

pimpekaustas
08-06-2013, 04:33 AM
In my opinion,Spain remains the strongest team,even without Gasol and Navarro.There are not many Rudys an Marc Gasols in the tournament.After that,the only teams capable of posing a threat are Greece (an enigma for me in terms of chemistry and the new coach's work) and Lithuania,despite the mediocre roster they're fielding up to SF position.They're a powerhouse after all.

Italy is a good team,but lacks cohesion and team spirit.And a good PG.

Turkey's frontline is very good,but their guards are mostly a joke.

France is a good team,with good guards overall,but their quality stops there.

The other teams (even the hosts) are not very strong,with the exception of Croatia,which can be the surprise of the tournament.They have the quality,but i don't know how they work as a team.

Too bad for Russia,they could compete for a medal,but what's happening to them is horrifying.It's like someone has put a curse on them.

slovenia IS very strong. you forgotted montenegro also powerful, and serbia who on paper looks nothing special but serbia is always serbia. dont think croatia can be surprise, we are average team, we'll have to wait few more years (how manny times i heard this lol). and also dont think spain is the strongest, dont forget starting "paul gasols era" spain didnt win medals only on two championships (one EC and one WC)... only two championships that paul gasol didnt play for spain!

Raz
08-06-2013, 06:35 AM
slovenia IS very strong. you forgotted montenegro also powerful, and serbia who on paper looks nothing special but serbia is always serbia. dont think croatia can be surprise, we are average team, we'll have to wait few more years (how manny times i heard this lol). and also dont think spain is the strongest, dont forget starting "paul gasols era" spain didnt win medals only on two championships (one EC and one WC)... only two championships that paul gasol didnt play for spain!

Yes,but their roster (Spain's roster) was not so strong then.And with the absent players from all the other teams this year,they remain the biggest favourite in my opinion.
I can't see why Slovenia is very strong.I see a very good NBA player (Dragic),i see a good player who is also a loser (Lakovic),i see a prolific scorer (Nachbar),and that's about it.The rest of the roster is mediocre at best.
Serbia is Serbia,but they seem so very very inexperienced and without talent this year.
As for Montenegro,they have probably the strongest frontline of the tournament (Pekovic is an offensive monster,Vucevic is an excellent player as well etc.) but they really have no guards.A question.Why isn't Cook in the roster in the Eurobasket site?Isn't he playing?And why Rochestie?
On the other hand,Croatia has players like Ukic,Zoric,Tomic,Bogdanovic and reamins to see how the likes of Simon (i believe he'll be in the roster) will respond to the challenge.

Also,to clarify something.I referred separately to the teams that i believe,without absent players or with one or two more players could even compete for the gold.The strongest of them with full rosters would be France (aside Spain of course).Then come Russia,Greece and Lithuania.And then Turkey,Serbia and Croatia.At least,that's how i see it

Pero Antic
08-06-2013, 04:27 PM
Yes,but their roster (Spain's roster) was not so strong then.And with the absent players from all the other teams this year,they remain the biggest favourite in my opinion.
I can't see why Slovenia is very strong.I see a very good NBA player (Dragic),i see a good player who is also a loser (Lakovic),i see a prolific scorer (Nachbar),and that's about it.The rest of the roster is mediocre at best.
Serbia is Serbia,but they seem so very very inexperienced and without talent this year.
As for Montenegro,they have probably the strongest frontline of the tournament (Pekovic is an offensive monster,Vucevic is an excellent player as well etc.) but they really have no guards.A question.Why isn't Cook in the roster in the Eurobasket site?Isn't he playing?And why Rochestie?
On the other hand,Croatia has players like Ukic,Zoric,Tomic,Bogdanovic and reamins to see how the likes of Simon (i believe he'll be in the roster) will respond to the challenge.

Also,to clarify something.I referred separately to the teams that i believe,without absent players or with one or two more players could even compete for the gold.The strongest of them with full rosters would be France (aside Spain of course).Then come Russia,Greece and Lithuania.And then Turkey,Serbia and Croatia.At least,that's how i see it

i really dont think spain is a clear title favorite with all these absences but still the rest of the team is experienced and they are atleast a sure medal contender. To watch Russia is very hard they will play with a total different team there i really liked their style of playing. Serbia for me is totally unpredictable even if there is a Teodosic playing for them he will be nowhere near like his last tourney. Greece could make profit from those absences because they are almost complete nice to see spanoulis back in the NT.

PS: But somehow i dont know how i have a good feeling about this Eurobasket i terms of good games maybe we will see some young prospects

Raz
08-06-2013, 04:59 PM
i really dont think spain is a clear title favorite with all these absences but still the rest of the team is experienced and they are atleast a sure medal contender. To watch Russia is very hard they will play with a total different team there i really liked their style of playing. Serbia for me is totally unpredictable even if there is a Teodosic playing for them he will be nowhere near like his last tourney. Greece could make profit from those absences because they are almost complete nice to see spanoulis back in the NT.

PS: But somehow i dont know how i have a good feeling about this Eurobasket i terms of good games maybe we will see some young prospects

Spain is not a clear favourite,at least not as much as in previous tournaments,but i still think they (unfortunately for the rest of us) have the most quality in their ranks.This Serbia team,unfortunately has not the quality to upset any strong team in this tournament.

Joško Poljak Fan
08-06-2013, 11:17 PM
I can't see why Slovenia is very strong.I see a very good NBA player (Dragic),i see a good player who is also a loser (Lakovic),i see a prolific scorer (Nachbar),and that's about it.The rest of the roster is mediocre at best.
Slovenia doesn't have that ussual firepower it had in previous decades. Our front court can rightfully be called mediocre for ussual standards, but all those players that won't be present at eurobasket make it a quite a bit less mediocre as well. For example, our backcourt is relatively unknown, inexperienced or not yet prooven, but one of the best defensive backcourts out there, even without the absences.

It's very obvious by now how to play vs. Slovenia. Slow paced, controlled offense with high FG% interupting that first pass by all means neccesary, failing that, meaning Slovenia either ensures a steal or a defensive reb+ fast first pass or trying to keep up in a running game, France can probably compare with Slovenia's open court game with a third team (whichever it may be) waay below either of them. Both Dragič brothers or Blažič are amazing in that aspect, even if two of them are relatively unknown to wider bball masses.

Even if I consider this to be, defensively wise, the strongest team we've had in... umm... ever, it's true that roster wise Slovenia doesn't get above that 5th, 6th, 7th place (Spain, France, Greece, Lith's, arguably Croatia, Turkey, Italy or Serbia), also playoff games are very specific and home crowd can in many instances be eliminated by pressure and I overall don't consider Slovenia as a mostlikely medal contender by now, I can say if succesfully enforcing their agressive perimeter defense and first pass this team can represent some ugly trouble.

In fact considering progress some of the players have made in the past 2 years, I consider this roster stronger (if they stay healthy) as the one in 2011 was and remembering those games, it was basicaly all about not being able to hit anything from the long range and vs. zone, which I strongly doubt could be the case this time.

I wouldn't call Slovenia "very strong" as I don't consider any of the rosters at this eurobasket to deserve such mark (with Spain and Greece being nearest to it and I strongly object putting Lithuania, France or others on that list), but I would say "strong" as they're definately not "mediocre". Personaly I'd call them specific and after all those years of supposedly strong versions of our NT not succeding, I kind of see it as a nice refreshment. :)

Raz
08-07-2013, 06:41 AM
Well,of course Slovenia can cause trouble,you play at home and you are,you know,Slovenia after all.But when I've seen teams like the ones of the previous years,filled with great players,it's somewhat obscure seeing a roster like this.We'll just have to wait and see though,as Malkovic may have an ace up his sleeve.Nevertheless,i don't see this roster getting above 6-7th place and in no way getting a medal.
I've seen Zoran Dragic and i was not impressed at all.Blazic is a good player but somewhat incosistent i think.One other player i like is Prepelic,but he seems a little limited in his game.

Markoishvili
08-07-2013, 06:49 AM
I like Slovenia. They have go-to-guy in Dragic, who can slice the defense and they have really good shooters to put him around him. They have muscle in the paint with Vidmar and Begic too. I can see them beiing in late stages of the competition. My only worry is Maljkovic, that guy is still living in the 90s.

Joško Poljak Fan
08-07-2013, 10:23 PM
Well,of course Slovenia can cause trouble,you play at home and you are,you know,Slovenia after all.But when I've seen teams like the ones of the previous years,filled with great players,it's somewhat obscure seeing a roster like this.We'll just have to wait and see though,as Malkovic may have an ace up his sleeve.Nevertheless,i don't see this roster getting above 6-7th place and in no way getting a medal.
I've seen Zoran Dragic and i was not impressed at all.Blazic is a good player but somewhat incosistent i think.One other player i like is Prepelic,but he seems a little limited in his game.
Predicting a medal is really ungratefull in even much clearer cases than our NT is. I think only Spain or maybee Greece would have the realistic right to do so at this tournament, but that still doesn't mean all the other NT's are left out of the medal contest.

Sure having E.Lorbek, Smodiš, Brezec, Bečirovič, Udrih would sound better, but that's name wise for the most of the story. Defensively and pace-wise most of them are a relative downgrade.

Edo Murič noticably improved since 2011, Goran Dragič was among the top3 or top5 in the NBA's most improved players voting in 12, his brother actually gained some (whih literaly means only "some", but is still a huge improvement :) ) long range, while Blažič and Joksimovič are definately an upgrade on Rupnik and Ožbolt (as much as I like and respect the guy).
The biggest missing piece is E.Lorbek which in 2011 was in top shape, however he was playing injured for most of the season and was obvious he mostlikely won't be able to help NT this time, Nachbar is a different type of player but will to some lesser degree replace him, Smodiš was injury-plagued at the time, underperformind accordingly and Jagodnik as much as I respect his fighting spirit was well over his prime days at that point. Balažič on the other hand is an usefull role player for stretching the game, adding Vidmar which just as Begič tends to perform nicely in the NT, even the froncourt is about even as in 2011, if not even slightly stronger due depth and health.

I still claim it might not be enough for medal, but 6th, 7th place would nevertheless be quite a dissapointment for a stronger team (degree of it is arguable, but nevertheless stronger in my view) than the one in 2011 that ended up 7th, playing modern basketball unlike the predecesing team, with more usefull depth, on a predictably weaker tournament and playing on home court along that. I'm not predicting any medals, to get my self clear, but saying this team can't reach higher than 6th, 7th place is a bit underestimating.


@Markoishvili, Maljković is a worry, however if the running plan works, I sincerely hope there is not all that much for him to screw up really. :D I completely lost my nerves the way we've played in 2011, but later also lost an interesting arguement with one proffesional coach on how exactly do I imagine a running game with Jagodnik, Smodiš, Slokar, Lorbek with Lakovič, Ožbolt and a 3 young guys backcourt rotation or what can Maljkovič really do when noone can nail a 3pointer even if their life depended on it. I'll be glad if I was the one being wrong and it wasn't all that about Maljkovič's in-game inneficient moves as much as an uncohesive team, that simply lacked quality on some important parts.

Raz
08-08-2013, 05:34 AM
Well,we'll just have to wait and see.I'm usually pessimistic about teams such as Slovenia missing big names.I even expected my country to finish somewhere 8th-9th in 2011 and we finished 6th (pretty good result with that horrible roster).I'd say you should trust Maljkovic.Maybe he's a bit old-fashioned,but he knows how to win and that's more important than anything.

Joško Poljak Fan
08-08-2013, 11:28 AM
You are absolutely right about the big names factor, for the biggest achievements you need someone possesing that extra quality that pulls whole team through the troubleing periods, actualy in most cases even one such player only isn't enough. That's what people are worrying about Spain (due to Navarro&Gasol, although personaly I believe they've got players that can replace them) and is a completely legit worry with Slovenia as after Dragič some other player will have to step up big time in those most important moments if we want to get past the quarterfinals. With healthy E.Lorbek that worry would be gone and I would probably be predicting a medal for Slovenia, this way I'm not.

Majority of fans here are banging their heads against the wall when only hearing the name Maljković, however it does seem a bit counterproductive to say the least. :) As far as I am concerned i'm trying to stay positive and he personaly made that lot's easier promoting pushing the ball to fast and half-fast breaks in the friendlies so far, which imo is the only obvious way to do it with that team. If I were to choose, I'd go with Zdovc in a no time though.

Raz
08-08-2013, 11:45 AM
You are right.That's exactly what i'm thinking.

I remember Zdovc as a coach and as a player (great player btw).As a coach is very good too.

christodoulou76
08-09-2013, 02:57 AM
New FIBA predictions (http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/coid_NjkLcblIGSEayks1bZvUP2.articleMode_on.html) are out. These seem pretty random. If anyone hasn't seen the other thread, I compiled a team ranking (http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?24296-Eurobasket-2013-Fantasy&p=839937&viewfull=1#post839937) based on TheSportCity.Net fantasy prices.

pimpekaustas
08-09-2013, 03:23 AM
i am pessimist about croatia but dont see why serbia and italy or turkey even montenegro are better than us, it is jus not truth. i will be cheering for slovenija

Joško Poljak Fan
08-09-2013, 10:24 AM
All Croats seem to be pesimistic about their NT :) I wish you guys to surprise finaly, or only show the actual worth on court, that alone should be worth a good result. I agree with Pimpekaustas, it's a very solid team definately better roster wise than quite some other teams ranked above them. PG position and some details etc. can be disputed, (every NT has those) but c'mmon we're talking about specific issues with Ukić and Draper as if they represent some huge minus unableing Croatia from passing the quarters, while some other teams would kill for having one of those two, no matter they're not perfect just as noone else is. Some teams are losing huge names and depth and Croatia is staying ranked at the same place nevertheless.


The experts are obviously drawing their expertise from a crystal ball, just as much as statistics/boxscores.

Montenegro... 1st question. What changed from 2011? 2nd: What changed from 2011 that drasticaly? 3rd: What kind of change would it take to being ranked 6th wouldn't raise eyebrows? 4th Q: would naturalisation of Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, both Lopez bros. and Tyson Chandler make them a 1st overall? :D

It doesn't take an expert to put Czech above 22nd place :D or does it?
Balvin, Satoransky, Jelinek obviously doesn't ring a bell, hopefully at least Welsch, Vesely, Benda, Barton do considering their eurobasket qualies were all played behind strictly closed (did I say closed?! I meant sealed!!) doors with a death penalty hanging above anyone that would dare taping those :)

Just about anyone that has seen Latvia play for, let's say two random quarters, can make a safe judgement that their performance so far, not only arguably surpasses the actual performance of normaly 20th placed team at eurobasket, but also has some good promise of offensive variety, utilising the talent they have (which is not supreme, but... see who out-ranked them :D). Sweden? Britain? i love Finland and will support them against most other teams, but ->?
Poland can be arguable, as the fact is, comparing 2 stars Latvia don't posses, compared to their fluid team game with good variety, judging from the past I'd bet on the last option... unless the crystal ball has something to do with it :D
I mean, it doesn't take an expert to know Blums, Janicenoks, Strelnieks, Meyers, Berzins, D. Bertans, instead of the other D.Bertans, and Biedrins, which I guess even the common bit fanatical fans have heard about :) ...it doesn't take an expert to compare various game plans, it only takes an expert to take some time to evaluate all those things, especialy if they're paid for such things.

This way, as I got to know with time spent here, just how knowledgable some posters over here are and how much attention they pay to such details (unlike"the experts"), Fiba could easily employ some of the posters here for an actual reality based upgrade on their predictions. :) Nevermind those being rankings and one could object this is just a matter of personal taste... well... it's not a matter of personal taste, but more of actualy the level :)

eh, enough ranting for today, I guess :) I just hope it's a voluntary job if that's their level.

Dirtyh
08-09-2013, 08:06 PM
I have pretty much similar thoughts about that Fibaeurope's power ranking. Of course, it's just a matter of taste how you rank Greece, Spain, France or Lithuania. Personaly I really hope that Lithuania takes it even id my personal favorite Jasaitis is not playing.

Montenegro is one team that I can't understand why it's so high. Yes, they had very good campaign last year. Yes, they have fire power under the rim even without Pecovic. But still? 2 years ago they lost to Finland and if I remember right, they weren't even close to get through group stage. Turkey is an other mystery to me, no matter how much I love Iskender kebab. Baris Ermis as a starting PG? Ömer Onan as a starting SG? IMO they are very off balanced team and I'm not even sure if Hedo can bring more good than bad to his team.

I think that both Italy and Croatia are way better than those two teams. Italy may be little bit thin but they still have talent and team is way more balanced. Actually, I would not be surprised if FYROM is second just after Liths in their group. And then hell, I just can't understand how on earth Bosnia is ever above Finland. 2 years ago we murdered them. Of course it was just one game but hey, we are better now than we were then. Are they?

GB is probably worst team of tournament but Latvia and Czech interesting teams. Latvia is pretty much similar than we are. Short, weak front court, good chemistry, fire power from back court and nothing to lose attitude. Besides Finland, I'm gonna cheer for Baltic countries.

Pero Antic
08-09-2013, 09:45 PM
I have pretty much similar thoughts about that Fibaeurope's power ranking. Of course, it's just a matter of taste how you rank Greece, Spain, France or Lithuania. Personaly I really hope that Lithuania takes it even id my personal favorite Jasaitis is not playing.

Montenegro is one team that I can't understand why it's so high. Yes, they had very good campaign last year. Yes, they have fire power under the rim even without Pecovic. But still? 2 years ago they lost to Finland and if I remember right, they weren't even close to get through group stage. Turkey is an other mystery to me, no matter how much I love Iskender kebab. Baris Ermis as a starting PG? Ömer Onan as a starting SG? IMO they are very off balanced team and I'm not even sure if Hedo can bring more good than bad to his team.

I think that both Italy and Croatia are way better than those two teams. Italy may be little bit thin but they still have talent and team is way more balanced. Actually, I would not be surprised if FYROM is second just after Liths in their group. And then hell, I just can't understand how on earth Bosnia is ever above Finland. 2 years ago we murdered them. Of course it was just one game but hey, we are better now than we were then. Are they?

GB is probably worst team of tournament but Latvia and Czech interesting teams. Latvia is pretty much similar than we are. Short, weak front court, good chemistry, fire power from back court and nothing to lose attitude. Besides Finland, I'm gonna cheer for Baltic countries.

There's no such country you probably meant Macedonia ;) But your prediction isnt that bad at all Macedonia will not be second but first! HOW?! just wait a month... but i have no clue what will happan with serbia and lithuania they will challenge the second/third spot in our group bosnia will fail big time and latvia can make some surprises.

Dirtyh
08-10-2013, 05:07 AM
There's no such country you probably meant Macedonia ;) But your prediction isnt that bad at all Macedonia will not be second but first! HOW?! just wait a month... but i have no clue what will happan with serbia and lithuania they will challenge the second/third spot in our group bosnia will fail big time and latvia can make some surprises.

heh, I guess at this point it's good to have self-confidence and you guys have done it before. There's no way I'd believe that Macedonia's going to beat Lithuania again but hey, no one should blame you for believing. As a Finn, I just can't think we'd ever beeat Greece but all the other teams in our group? Yeah, you have seen what it is when it's that red hot shooting day! BTW it's not style of play I really like. It's pretty sad that Finland has one solid big man for offense (Lee jr) and one solid big man for defence (Kotti). And it's not getting better since there's pretty much no one in youth categories. There on 211cm SF(!) in U20 who plays for Joventut but as Finn, he just rain threes.

I guess we can forgot Erik Murphy because he got NBA deal. He don't need NT for anything and after all he is just a Finnish kid who has lived his whole life in US. If someday he has to find Eurolegue job, then he might join up (or if Finland plays in Olympics, yeah right...).

G&B
08-10-2013, 07:10 PM
Interestingly Greece without Spanulis be stronger or weaker

kalashnikov
08-10-2013, 07:59 PM
There's no such country you probably meant Macedonia

no such country either. But, I don't want to start this now.

Serbia & Latvia have shown very good signs in the friendlies so far. Montenegro is a total mystery to me, and FYROM, I haven't seen at all their friendlies results.

But, taking into account that Lithuania & Serbia will probably go through, there's one place to be split among FYROM, Latvia, Montenegro. We're gonna see some good matches...

Pero Antic
08-11-2013, 03:22 PM
no such country either. But, I don't want to start this now.

Serbia & Latvia have shown very good signs in the friendlies so far. Montenegro is a total mystery to me, and Macedonia, I haven't seen at all their friendlies results.

But, taking into account that Lithuania & Serbia will probably go through, there's one place to be split among Macedonia, Latvia, Montenegro. We're gonna see some good matches...

you forget BIH.

Well we have a friendly in germany against your greece also in madrid against Spain twice and in Skopje against Lithuania.

Pdor
08-11-2013, 07:36 PM
If you are interested in predictions game on Eurobasket 2013 with livescores and live standings update here is great site: http://www.whatscore.eu/index.php

Joško Poljak Fan
08-11-2013, 10:11 PM
Feel free to continue discussion regarding Macedonia/FYROM/country names or heritage in the already existant thread in the "United nations" section of the forum, as I doubt people reading this particular thread have much interest in this subject.

pimpekaustas
08-16-2013, 09:44 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/229368/EuroBasket-2013-Power-Rankings

realgm powerrankings

christodoulou76
08-16-2013, 02:24 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/229368/EuroBasket-2013-Power-Rankings

realgm powerrankings

This looks like a very realistic set of predictions. Best one I've seen yet. Montenegro without Pekovic seems a little high; Poland and FYROM seem a little low. Overall, this seems about right.

cartmaniac
08-17-2013, 07:16 AM
This looks like a very realistic set of predictions. Best one I've seen yet. Montenegro without Pekovic seems a little high; Poland and FYROM seem a little low. Overall, this seems about right.

Imo Serbia should be higher as well. I think that they should not be underestimated in this eurobasket

christodoulou76
08-19-2013, 03:22 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/229368/EuroBasket-2013-Power-Rankings

realgm powerrankings

These rankings also reveal the lopsidedness of the Eurobasket groups. If you assign 1 pt for 1st place and 24 pts for 24th place, the group strengths are (lower score is better)

Group A: France (4), Germany (12), Israel (14), Ukraine (21), Great Britain (23), Belgium (24) = 98
Group B: Lithuania (2), Montenegro (8), Serbia (10), FYROM (15), Bosnia & Herzegovina (17), Latvia (20) =72
Group C: Spain (1), Croatia (6), Slovenia (7), Poland (13), Georgia (19), Czech Republic (22) = 68
Group D: Greece (3), Turkey (5), Italy (9), Russia (11), Finland (16), Sweden (18) = 62

Group A is the big outlier. It is a very weak group. Groups A and B will combine to form Group E, while Groups C and D will form Group F. If we add the scores of these groups together, the discrepancy gets even larger:

Group E = 170
Group F = 130

If we take only the top three ranked teams from each group and then combine them, there is still a difference but not as large:

Group E = 50
Group F: 31

For top ranked teams in Groups C and D (like Spain), the toughness of Group F can be a good thing because assuming they play well and finish 1st or 2nd in the group, they can have a relatively easy QF match-up down the line (since only France or Lithuania can really worry them in Group E and they can assume that these two teams will probably finish 1st and 2nd in that group). But for middle-ranked teams like Italy or Poland, the toughness of Groups C, D and F can mean an early exit from the competition.

Dorian
08-19-2013, 06:29 AM
If we add the scores of these groups together, the discrepancy gets even larger:

Group E = 169
Group F = 130

If we take only the top three ranked teams from each group and then combine them, there is still a difference but not as large:

Group E = 49
Group F: 31


Actually by taking the top three ranked teams the difference is larger. 58% vs. 30%.

christodoulou76
08-19-2013, 12:14 PM
Actually by taking the top three ranked teams the difference is larger. 58% vs. 30%.

You're right. I was thinking of absolute difference, but percentage difference is the much better measure.

G&B
08-19-2013, 05:39 PM
"Group A: France (3), Germany (12), Israel (14), Ukraine (21), Great Britain (23), Belgium (24) = 97
Group B: Lithuania (2), Montenegro (8), Serbia (10), FYROM (15), Bosnia & Herzegovina (17), Latvia (20) =72
Group C: Spain (1), Croatia (6), Slovenia (7), Poland (13), Georgia (19), Czech Republic (22) = 68
Group D: Greece (3), Turkey (5), Italy (9), Russia (11), Finland (16), Sweden (18) = 62"

Error : France(4)!!!

G&B
08-19-2013, 05:51 PM
I think to this day look as:
final : France-Lithuania
small final : Spain- Greece
5-6 (CM) : Serbia-Slovenia
7-8 : Croatia- Turkey
9-10: Russia-Italy
11-12 : Montenegro-FYROM

christodoulou76
08-19-2013, 06:27 PM
"Group A: France (3), Germany (12), Israel (14), Ukraine (21), Great Britain (23), Belgium (24) = 97
Group B: Lithuania (2), Montenegro (8), Serbia (10), FYROM (15), Bosnia & Herzegovina (17), Latvia (20) =72
Group C: Spain (1), Croatia (6), Slovenia (7), Poland (13), Georgia (19), Czech Republic (22) = 68
Group D: Greece (3), Turkey (5), Italy (9), Russia (11), Finland (16), Sweden (18) = 62"

Error : France(4)!!!

Thanks for pointing this out. I corrected the original post.

AiwiTo
08-20-2013, 06:31 AM
I think to this day look as:
final : France-Lithuania
small final : Spain- Greece
5-6 (CM) : Serbia-Slovenia
7-8 : Croatia- Turkey
9-10: Russia-Italy
11-12 : Montenegro-FYROM

7 teams from C-D group, and just 5 from A-B.

I understand it's just teams strength comparison.. Just a little notice.

For today, my rankings/prediction would be like this:

Final: Lithuania-Spain (I hope su much, the repeat of 2003 final..:)
3: France
4: Greece
5: Slovenia
6: Serbia
7: Russia
8: Macedonia
9-10: Turkey, Croatia
11-12: Germany, Belgium
13-16: Poland, Finland, Bosnia and Hercogovina, Israel
17-20: Montenegro, Italy, Czech Republic, Great Britain
21-24: Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, Sweden


In such a weak group A the 2nd - 3rd team can be either Germany, Belgium or Israel, I believe they all are at the same level. As Belgium showed some nice results lately, a respect for Germany to the past results, i picked these two teams over Israel. But I wont be impressed if Israel make it, or Germany not.

Anyway, these two teams will be 5-6 in the group E.

In group C Poland is the dark horse. If they can go though I leave Croatia out of second round. Croats does not show anything nice yet.

Italy looks totaly crashed, I liked their chances to go through, but no i don't believe it. Greece, Russia and Turkey or Finland will make it there.

Anyway it's just preparation games, and when championship starts, something of course will be different..

Dirtyh
08-20-2013, 09:05 AM
Final: Lithuania-Spain (I hope su much, the repeat of 2003 final..:)
3: France
4: Greece
5: Slovenia
6: Serbia
7: Russia
8: Macedonia
9-10: Turkey, Croatia
11-12: Germany, Belgium
13-16: Poland, Finland, Bosnia and Hercogovina, Israel
17-20: Montenegro, Italy, Czech Republic, Great Britain
21-24: Latvia, Georgia, Ukraine, Sweden

I like your prediction and hope same final. There are lot of teams that have great weapons but then again very bad weaknesess. Top8 teams are pretty much balanced but then it's wide open. Poland looks dark horse to me. If their guards can handle the pressure, who knows what they can be. No one gonna out-rebound them!

It's also nice to see tomorrow how Finland is able to battle agaist Lithuania. Finn's are trying to be like Lith's kid brother, playing little bit same style (but without good big men). So Lithuania is propably worst opponent to us if you look at the history. Koponen, Rannikko, Salin and mayby Kotti can play against you but I think we can't do anything agaist Lithanian front line.

pimpekaustas
08-21-2013, 10:54 AM
one of most prominent bball journalists in ex yu area, edin avdić, made his predictions: 1. greece 2. spain 3. lithuania 4.france

conclusion: 99% people see these 4 teams above the rest

Raz
08-21-2013, 11:34 AM
Well,it's pretty much clear that these four teams seem to be the best,at least based on the rosters,but we're gonna have to wait and see for the final order.