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NorCal
08-13-2012, 05:26 AM
Sorry for the long post, this is something I was thinking about today.......

Team USA has put a nice bow on its 'Coach K/Jerry Colangelo' era with a record of 62-1 overall, 3 golds and 1 bronze. It feels like the USA will be moving into a new era and so my question is, will these next two World Cups and Olympics be as successful as the Coach K ones?

My two cents- there are a lot of variables obviously with attempting to project that far out. However, my feeling is we will still be extremely successful and will/should be favored in every tournament for the next few years at least but matching the 62-1 record will be difficult. My reasoning:

1) We are in a second golden age of talent for our team, this generation of players that graduated high school from '02 to '07 are great- Lebron, Wade, Howard, Paul, Bosh, Durant, Rose, Love, Carmelo, D-Will, Eric Gordon, Igoudala etc. Being a pretty avid follower of recruiting rankings and the AAU/high school circuit I just don't see quite as much talent coming through the pipeline right now. The '08 and on classes haven't been bad by my measure but they aren't quite at the same level and that's including the '13 and '14 classes in high school right now.

2) Our core guys from the Coach K era- Lebron, Kobe, Carmelo, Paul, Wade really bought into the idea of playing multiple times with Team USA in order to establish more (a trend that was not as true back in the 90s and early 2000s)

3) There is a decent amount of luck involved in going 62-1. We've had a number of games that were closely contested that could have easily been losses.

The counter arguments to my points:

1) Even though the players coming up may not be quite as talented as our current generation of players, our current guys- particularly Lebron, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose and Love may be back in 2014 and/or 2016 to give a veteran presence while we integrate a new generation. Also, there may be a Chris Paul or Dwyane Wade out there- two guys who weren't near the top of their high school classes- they just haven't 'blown up' yet.

2) Colangelo may have permanently made it cool to play for Team USA again and our subsequent generation of superstars may follow in the footsteps of Lebron and Co. by playing multiple times with Team USA over the course of many years.

3) Luck favors the prepared and we are scouting and arming our teams with more helpful info about our opposition than ever before. Plus, we have resources that other nations don't have in this area.

Other points: FIBA rules are slowly moving more towards NBA rules which favors our team, also, many of the other powerhouses- Argentina and Spain most notably- will most likely be on the decline as their key players are in their 30s.

So what do you guys think- will we see success at the same rate as the Coach K era?

CHBB
08-13-2012, 07:05 AM
1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.

durden_tyler
08-13-2012, 07:15 AM
Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

Yes basically because there's no all-world talent at the level of LeBron/Durant (so to speak the standard) from the other national teams.

Raze Lupin
08-13-2012, 02:12 PM
1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.

Did you not see Durant consistantly make defensive plays every game?? He even did it in the 2010 WC. How many deflection, pokes, blocks and intimidations did Durant have. I've watched most US games in this tourney twice. Durants defense was great. His long arms in the passing lanes caused teams problems every game I watched. I'd go as far as saying Durant's defense in the gold medal game was a significant contributing factor to the win. From memory I'd say he had 2 blocks, 2 steals, 3 deflections and several great defensive plays.

Also your underating the generation that has Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Stephen Curry. Just on charecter and commitment to improving alone I'd say USA has a chance against any team with the afformentioned players.

Dtown
08-13-2012, 02:21 PM
So long as playing for the National Team is the cool thing to do, and all credit to Colangelo and the players who made it so, then there will be the chance of dominance.

2014 will be very interesting, the team we send has a high chance of being weaker than this team, while it would be surprising if Spain's stars didn't show up for their own world cup. History would also be on the line as no team has ever repeated as Olympic champions and World Champions, in other words won four straight global tournaments.

CKR13
08-13-2012, 02:44 PM
I for one am very excited for the probable names in Team USA's 2014 squad. Colangelo stated that several names from the USA Select Team are in consideration for the said year / tourney. Leading the charge is Kyrie Irving, who the US almost lost to Australia.

Also, the prospect of welcoming back Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, James Harden and Anthony Davis Jr. is certainly a morale booster wherein they have earned a summer off next year.

Then Team USA could welcome back Derrick Rose alongside hopefuls like Lamarcus Aldridge.

Victorious
08-13-2012, 03:45 PM
I think the succes of team USA 2014-2020 will depend on the new generation of international teams because the US will remain more or less on the same level. The succes of Argentina and Spain are based on veterans like Gasol, Navarro and Ginobili. Sure they have a lot of other decent teammates who can beat most good teams, but these players essentially make the difference for these powerhouses. That said, it seems that their good years are probably over, which means that Argentina and Spain won't be regular medal candidates anymore. The first signs of their decline are already obvious, Argentina did not win a medal this year and Spain had a really hard time making the finals. Without Gasol they wouldn't have made it, just like in 2010.

Russia, Greece and Serbia are teams which have the rosters to become better and dominate in Europe. IMO they will be the biggest threats for team USA during the coming four years. After that it's hard to tell. But it's a good thing that many federations are forced to change their rosters because of aging players. Internationall basketball needs to give the next generations a chance. Looking at how basketball is evolving globally, logic says that they will be better than the previous generations.

NorCal
08-13-2012, 04:41 PM
1) It's actually only the HS classes of 06-08 that were the Golden Age. The years before them were full of busts with guys like LeBron being the exception. Kids from 06-08 grew up different than kids before them did or kids after them will. Something about them made them the exception to every rule. They contributed as rookies and even starred if they were given a chance, improved quicker than most do in the NBA, and the majority of the players who got drafted in those years not only can put up big numbers when given the chance but they play the game the right way. It's not the hip hop generation.

It's not just basketball. Kids from those high school classes are just different in general. I don't want to get into a long thing about it but a lot of contributing factors came together to make them who they are as a whole.

Whether we see continued success or not will depend on whether or not the kids coming up now mature the way those before them did. I highly doubt you're going to get guys like Blake Griffin, John Wall, etc to play defense or do the right thing for the team. Even Durant has a little bit of immaturity to him but he just needed to mostly score this Olympics so his flaws didn't come out. There is currently nobody to replace LeBron and Kobe, and that's a problem.

I think you are mistaken about the Golden Generation, especially if we are talking about which high school classes have contributed players to Team USA. The '07 class is great- Rose, Gordon, Griffin, Love- a very strong class. But '06 only gave us Durant and '08 is nothing special. Lebron, Carmelo, Paul, Williams, Bosh, Howard and a number of other NBA stars all graduated between '02-'05.

NorCal
08-13-2012, 04:43 PM
So long as playing for the National Team is the cool thing to do, and all credit to Colangelo and the players who made it so, then there will be the chance of dominance.

2014 will be very interesting, the team we send has a high chance of being weaker than this team, while it would be surprising if Spain's stars didn't show up for their own world cup. History would also be on the line as no team has ever repeated as Olympic champions and World Champions, in other words won four straight global tournaments.

Yeah, I have this feeling that 2014 if going to be a very difficult tournament for us to win. Spain will be extremely motivated to win and I still believe most of our guys from the '12 team will not commit.

Raze Lupin
08-13-2012, 06:49 PM
I think the succes of team USA 2014-2020 will depend on the new generation of international teams because the US will remain more or less on the same level. The succes of Argentina and Spain are based on veterans like Gasol, Navarro and Ginobili. Sure they have a lot of other decent teammates who can beat most good teams, but these players essentially make the difference for these powerhouses. That said, it seems that their good years are probably over, which means that Argentina and Spain won't be regular medal candidates anymore. The first signs of their decline are already obvious, Argentina did not win a medal this year and Spain had a really hard time making the finals. Without Gasol they wouldn't have made it, just like in 2010.

Russia, Greece and Serbia are teams which have the rosters to become better and dominate in Europe. IMO they will be the biggest threats for team USA during the coming four years. After that it's hard to tell. But it's a good thing that many federations are forced to change their rosters because of aging players. Internationall basketball needs to give the next generations a chance. Looking at how basketball is evolving globally, logic says that they will be better than the previous generations.

I agree 100% I also think Brazil, France and Turkey will be strong in the next 4 years.

VIRIATO
08-14-2012, 05:08 PM
Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


Paulo

NorCal
08-14-2012, 06:44 PM
Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


Paulo

If my memory serves me, Rondo had bad feelings for Team USA after being cut from the 2010 WC team (and he might have had some issues while with the team if I remember right). So it doesn't look like he'll ever represent us which is too bad, I think he's underrated.

I don't see Durant and Love committing to the 2014 team because they already won a WC. The three guys you listed though- Griffin, Irving and Davis- I think those guys will be our main pieces for the 2014 team. I'm just guessing at a roster. This is based off of the history that USA guys have shown of not participating at a WC after having played in one previously or if having played at the previous Olympics. The roster is also made up of many guys that played for the USA select team which 'feeds' into our national team:

PGs- Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Jrue Holiday
Wings- Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson
Bigs- Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Derrick Favors

I know that's not a full team so here are some wildcards for the team:

James Harden- like Davis, did not play much on Team USA this year and is very young. He doesn't have a WC so he may want to go for one. If so, he'd probably be a starter on this team.

Lamarcus Aldridge- he may be too old or not able to make the 2016 team so this may be his final chance to make a USA team. If he did play he would provide veteran leadership

Demarcus Cousins- he may make the team but as always, he has the attitude 'issue' that surfaced a little bit at the Team USA v Select Team scrimmages. I'm not sure the '14 team would take more than 3 bigs so he would be out if Davis/Griffin/Favors made the team, he'd probably be behind Aldridge too, I'm guessing

Eric Gordon/Rudy Gay/Stephen Curry- three guys that played on the 2010 team but aren't quite at the level to make an Olympics team. If they enjoyed playing in 2010 and are healthy in 2014 they may try out. Given the roster I had above, we could use their shooting.

Greg Monroe/Kenneth Faried/Ryan Anderson/Roy Hibbert/Javale McGee/Jeremy Lin- these guys would all fit well with a Team USA but weren't a part of the select squad.

Rookies- Damian Lillard/Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Bradley Beal- 3 talented guys who I think will be solid contributors this year and beyond in the NBA, if they developed well over the next 2 years they could be on the 2014 team

CHBB
08-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Will 2014-2020 be as successful as 2006-2012 for Team USA?

Yes basically because there's no all-world talent at the level of LeBron/Durant (so to speak the standard) from the other national teams. Neither does the US. There's nobody to replace LeBron, not even Durant, and not Kobe either. There's a ton of "maybes" but so many immature players with attitude and entitlement problems these days that they may never grow up enough.


Did you not see Durant consistantly make defensive plays every game?? He even did it in the 2010 WC. How many deflection, pokes, blocks and intimidations did Durant have. I've watched most US games in this tourney twice. Durants defense was great. His long arms in the passing lanes caused teams problems every game I watched. I'd go as far as saying Durant's defense in the gold medal game was a significant contributing factor to the win. From memory I'd say he had 2 blocks, 2 steals, 3 deflections and several great defensive plays.

Also your underating the generation that has Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Stephen Curry. Just on charecter and commitment to improving alone I'd say USA has a chance against any team with the afformentioned players. He didn't lock down anybody, which LeBron does night in and night out. Anybody can make defensive plays when they've got the skill and athleticism Durant has. That's not "great" defense. Great defense is what LeBron and Iguodala play.

That's the generation I'm talking about. It's my generation. Durant's from the '06 class. Westbrook from the '07, Love from the '06, Rose from the '07, etc.


I for one am very excited for the probable names in Team USA's 2014 squad. Colangelo stated that several names from the USA Select Team are in consideration for the said year / tourney. Leading the charge is Kyrie Irving, who the US almost lost to Australia.

Also, the prospect of welcoming back Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, James Harden and Anthony Davis Jr. is certainly a morale booster wherein they have earned a summer off next year.

Then Team USA could welcome back Derrick Rose alongside hopefuls like Lamarcus Aldridge. Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?


I think you are mistaken about the Golden Generation, especially if we are talking about which high school classes have contributed players to Team USA. The '07 class is great- Rose, Gordon, Griffin, Love- a very strong class. But '06 only gave us Durant and '08 is nothing special. Lebron, Carmelo, Paul, Williams, Bosh, Howard and a number of other NBA stars all graduated between '02-'05. Completely wrong there.

06, 07, and 08 produced the least amount of busts in probably a decade. You keep mentioning a handful of players out of multiple classes as proof those classes were great? They are the EXCEPTION. Only Durant? '08 nothing special? You can't be serious.


I agree 100% I also think Brazil, France and Turkey will be strong in the next 4 years. Agreed.


Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis come to mind. And Durant and Love are still young, I would expect a lot from them, especially from Durant, he has potential to be the world MVP IMHO.
Also, would Rajon Rondo come aboard this boat? This would be a terrific reinforcement. But a lot will depend on how the team will be run from now onwards, perhaps more on this part than on the player part, I guess.


Paulo Rondo would do absolutely nothing for Team USA. He makes dumb plays, is good offensively yes but he plays no defense and only goes for steals. He is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to immature players. A lot of players from his age group are immature for whatever reason.


If my memory serves me, Rondo had bad feelings for Team USA after being cut from the 2010 WC team (and he might have had some issues while with the team if I remember right). So it doesn't look like he'll ever represent us which is too bad, I think he's underrated.

I don't see Durant and Love committing to the 2014 team because they already won a WC. The three guys you listed though- Griffin, Irving and Davis- I think those guys will be our main pieces for the 2014 team. I'm just guessing at a roster. This is based off of the history that USA guys have shown of not participating at a WC after having played in one previously or if having played at the previous Olympics. The roster is also made up of many guys that played for the USA select team which 'feeds' into our national team:

PGs- Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Jrue Holiday
Wings- Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson
Bigs- Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Derrick Favors

I know that's not a full team so here are some wildcards for the team:

James Harden- like Davis, did not play much on Team USA this year and is very young. He doesn't have a WC so he may want to go for one. If so, he'd probably be a starter on this team.

Lamarcus Aldridge- he may be too old or not able to make the 2016 team so this may be his final chance to make a USA team. If he did play he would provide veteran leadership

Demarcus Cousins- he may make the team but as always, he has the attitude 'issue' that surfaced a little bit at the Team USA v Select Team scrimmages. I'm not sure the '14 team would take more than 3 bigs so he would be out if Davis/Griffin/Favors made the team, he'd probably be behind Aldridge too, I'm guessing

Eric Gordon/Rudy Gay/Stephen Curry- three guys that played on the 2010 team but aren't quite at the level to make an Olympics team. If they enjoyed playing in 2010 and are healthy in 2014 they may try out. Given the roster I had above, we could use their shooting.

Greg Monroe/Kenneth Faried/Ryan Anderson/Roy Hibbert/Javale McGee/Jeremy Lin- these guys would all fit well with a Team USA but weren't a part of the select squad.

Rookies- Damian Lillard/Michael Kidd-Gilchrist/Bradley Beal- 3 talented guys who I think will be solid contributors this year and beyond in the NBA, if they developed well over the next 2 years they could be on the 2014 team Rondo got cut because he's awful. He played like crap and tried to lie and say he had a personal reason but he got cut flat out. How can you call the most overrated player in the NBA underrated? They talk about him EVERY DAY, and constantly praise him! How does that constitute being underrated?

Durant probably won't play at WC but he'll definitely play in Rio. No way in hell Wall starts over Jrue Holliday. Wall is nothing but a more skilled, more athletic version of Rondo. Not really going to comment on the rest because there's just way too many unknowns between now and 2014.

NorCal
08-14-2012, 11:51 PM
'08 was nothing special when compared to other classes. Do you even know who was in those classes? Maybe we should clarify something- When you say those '06-'08 classes are the golden generation do you mean as feeder classes into Team USA or into the NBA in general? You're not being very clear.

Also I'd like to hear your case as to why Rondo is the most overrated player in the NBA.

CKR13
08-14-2012, 11:57 PM
Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?]Kyrie Irving should be playing for Australia though, shouldn't he?

He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship.

CHBB
08-15-2012, 04:22 PM
'08 was nothing special when compared to other classes. Do you even know who was in those classes? Maybe we should clarify something- When you say those '06-'08 classes are the golden generation do you mean as feeder classes into Team USA or into the NBA in general? You're not being very clear.

Also I'd like to hear your case as to why Rondo is the most overrated player in the NBA. Not even remotely true. I'm talking about the players, period. Whether they play in the NBA or for Team USA, those three classes are the best in decades. Considering that's roughly my age group, I know very well who was in those classes thanks.

He gets called one of the best point guards in the league when he's not even remotely a point guard. He could barely even score until this year, and even still he has yet to play in a situation where he actually gets guarded on every play, he plays no defense and only goes for steals, he makes every play harder than it has to be and does nothing but try to draw attention to himself and show off his nonexistent streetball skills.

That's why.


He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship. Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?

NorCal
08-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Not even remotely true. I'm talking about the players, period. Whether they play in the NBA or for Team USA, those three classes are the best in decades. Considering that's roughly my age group, I know very well who was in those classes thanks.

He gets called one of the best point guards in the league when he's not even remotely a point guard. He could barely even score until this year, and even still he has yet to play in a situation where he actually gets guarded on every play, he plays no defense and only goes for steals, he makes every play harder than it has to be and does nothing but try to draw attention to himself and show off his nonexistent streetball skills.

That's why.

Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?

I can see that there have been a number of good players in those classes but to say that they are the best for Team USA simply isn't true. The best in decades? Wow........and..........no.

And I guess we'll agree to disagree about Rondo. The guy who led the league in assists is "not even remotely a PG"? And how is he "not guarded on every play"? That simply is not true. I think you are misinterpreting defenders backing off of him because of his broken jumper with not defending him. He's a very good rebounder for his size and is the glue that makes that Celtics offense go. Plus, he comes up big in playoff games all the time. I partially agree with you about the going for steals but I would reel back your comment and say he 'goes for steals too often' instead of 'plays no defense and only goes for steals'. He's a disruptor on the defensive side of the ball which, historically, it has been shown that most teams need one guy who disrupts and plays the passing lanes to be successful. His win shares, wins against replacement player, defensive win shares, assist %, Player Efficiency Rating all say he is a very good player. And you have it wrong that he couldn't score until this year, that's backwards. He actually scored more and was more efficient 2-3 years ago.

I admit that he's actually taken a step back in the last year on the offensive end, IMO. But many of your claims about him, well, the evidence just isn't there to back it up. I think the guy is a top 20 player in the league.

CKR13
08-16-2012, 12:25 AM
Ryan Richards is supposedly going to play for Jamaica though even though he played for GB prior to this. Can't Kyrie do the same thing?

We could also argue the case of Roy Hibbert (http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120517/sports/sports3.html) who wanted his release from Jamaica's national basketball federation to be able to suit up for Team USA. FIBA Article 3-23 says otherwise.

JGX
08-16-2012, 12:53 AM
He should have represented Australia had he chosen to, prior to being a member of the 2010 USA U18 and 2011 U19 USA squads. Irving does not know FIBA qualifications pertaining to citizenship.

He didn't play for the U19, only U18. Players certainly have switched but it would require approval from FIBA and in practice probably USA Basketball as well. IMO if he was going to try to switch to Australia it would have happened this year.

CKR13
08-16-2012, 01:03 AM
He didn't play for the U19, only U18. Players certainly have switched but it would require approval from FIBA and in practice probably USA Basketball as well. IMO if he was going to try to switch to Australia it would have happened this year.

Wait... Now I'm confused.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz3JxwXshbE
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/84717/sid/4729/tid/379/_/2010_FIBA_Americas_U18_Championship_for_Men/index.html

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTd7ufH3S8ZEKnqHj3td92H4rLbNrsSh W7WU0iNfIEuC7Fn5MLC&t=1

I remember now, U19, Kyrie Irving could not suit up.

Jon_Koncak
08-16-2012, 03:22 PM
Considering Durant will only be 25 in 2014 and 31 in 2020 it's safe to say that yes Usa will be as dominant as during 06-12.

CHBB
08-17-2012, 01:18 AM
I can see that there have been a number of good players in those classes but to say that they are the best for Team USA simply isn't true. The best in decades? Wow........and..........no.

And I guess we'll agree to disagree about Rondo. The guy who led the league in assists is "not even remotely a PG"? And how is he "not guarded on every play"? That simply is not true. I think you are misinterpreting defenders backing off of him because of his broken jumper with not defending him. He's a very good rebounder for his size and is the glue that makes that Celtics offense go. Plus, he comes up big in playoff games all the time. I partially agree with you about the going for steals but I would reel back your comment and say he 'goes for steals too often' instead of 'plays no defense and only goes for steals'. He's a disruptor on the defensive side of the ball which, historically, it has been shown that most teams need one guy who disrupts and plays the passing lanes to be successful. His win shares, wins against replacement player, defensive win shares, assist %, Player Efficiency Rating all say he is a very good player. And you have it wrong that he couldn't score until this year, that's backwards. He actually scored more and was more efficient 2-3 years ago.

I admit that he's actually taken a step back in the last year on the offensive end, IMO. But many of your claims about him, well, the evidence just isn't there to back it up. I think the guy is a top 20 player in the league. You should really drop the attitude until you learn more about basketball. The generation labeled the "hip hop" generation of basketball produced immature, often flawed players with the exception of guys like LeBron. This generation, on the other hand, produced mature, more complete players who play the game the right way with the exception of a few players who never had to work hard enough to grow up and so they didn't go anywhere.

He led the league in assists because he only passed the ball when he would get an assist and because the players he passes it to are some of the best, most talented scorers in the league. He doesn't play like a point guard and never has. At best, he plays like a combo guard. He actually doesn't get guarded so yeah it is completely true. How can you call somebody who missed open layups, could barely shoot or even do any kind of skilled move before this year an "efficient scorer"? They didn't defend him because he was not, isn't now, and isn't ever going to be the focus of the offense on any good team. He's not a good rebounder just because he gets high stats. He goes into the paint when he should be playing defense or getting back after a missed shot. He is not even remotely any kind of glue but in fact an anchor who holds his team back. He didn't come up big in any playoff games; I've watched them all. He's not any kind of defender, not a disruptor or anything else. He's somebody who goes for steals because he's all about the attention and glory. Those "advanced" stats are bullshit and made up by nerds who don't actually understand the game.

Actually, the evidence of the game film is in fact there. You think wrong. If you want to learn, give me the time to and I can point out to you in any piece of game tape you can find exactly what he does wrong and why, even his "highlights".


We could also argue the case of Roy Hibbert (http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20120517/sports/sports3.html) who wanted his release from Jamaica's national basketball federation to be able to suit up for Team USA. FIBA Article 3-23 says otherwise. So does this mean that Ryan Richards won't be able to suit up for Jamaica either?


Considering Durant will only be 25 in 2014 and 31 in 2020 it's safe to say that yes Usa will be as dominant as during 06-12. But he doesn't do the things LeBron does when it comes to being a point-forward or on the defensive end. Who's going to do that in the future or do you think maybe the USA instead goes to a more traditional set-up with a guy who mainly defends and hits shots at the 3 and having the PG run the offense at all times?

CKR13
08-17-2012, 01:49 AM
So does this mean that Ryan Richards won't be able to suit up for Jamaica either?


Yes. Richards should continue with GB.

NorCal
08-17-2012, 02:08 AM
You should really drop the attitude until you learn more about basketball. The generation labeled the "hip hop" generation of basketball produced immature, often flawed players with the exception of guys like LeBron. This generation, on the other hand, produced mature, more complete players who play the game the right way with the exception of a few players who never had to work hard enough to grow up and so they didn't go anywhere.

He led the league in assists because he only passed the ball when he would get an assist and because the players he passes it to are some of the best, most talented scorers in the league. He doesn't play like a point guard and never has. At best, he plays like a combo guard. He actually doesn't get guarded so yeah it is completely true. How can you call somebody who missed open layups, could barely shoot or even do any kind of skilled move before this year an "efficient scorer"? They didn't defend him because he was not, isn't now, and isn't ever going to be the focus of the offense on any good team. He's not a good rebounder just because he gets high stats. He goes into the paint when he should be playing defense or getting back after a missed shot. He is not even remotely any kind of glue but in fact an anchor who holds his team back. He didn't come up big in any playoff games; I've watched them all. He's not any kind of defender, not a disruptor or anything else. He's somebody who goes for steals because he's all about the attention and glory. Those "advanced" stats are bullshit and made up by nerds who don't actually understand the game.

Actually, the evidence of the game film is in fact there. You think wrong. If you want to learn, give me the time to and I can point out to you in any piece of game tape you can find exactly what he does wrong and why, even his "highlights".

So does this mean that Ryan Richards won't be able to suit up for Jamaica either?

But he doesn't do the things LeBron does when it comes to being a point-forward or on the defensive end. Who's going to do that in the future or do you think maybe the USA instead goes to a more traditional set-up with a guy who mainly defends and hits shots at the 3 and having the PG run the offense at all times?

Well it simply seems like we won't be seeing eye to eye and I'll resist the urge to put you in your place for saying that I'm the one who needs to drop the attitude.

CHBB
08-17-2012, 06:38 PM
Well it simply seems like we won't be seeing eye to eye and I'll resist the urge to put you in your place for saying that I'm the one who needs to drop the attitude. You'll "resist the urge to" because you're incapable of it. You mouthed off to somebody who knows more about basketball than you, somebody who can back everything he says up with game tape. Have you ever even played basketball? I have and do pretty damn often against all kinds of very talented players, some of whom played in college. I know why players like Rondo are an anchor that holds the team back, how important it is for your point guard to not be an attention-whore and to get you the ball consistently in a place where you're comfortable, etc. I clearly know a lot more about basketball than you do, no matter what stats you try to pull out of your ass.

NorCal
08-17-2012, 08:43 PM
You'll "resist the urge to" because you're incapable of it. You mouthed off to somebody who knows more about basketball than you, somebody who can back everything he says up with game tape. Have you ever even played basketball? I have and do pretty damn often against all kinds of very talented players, some of whom played in college. I know why players like Rondo are an anchor that holds the team back, how important it is for your point guard to not be an attention-whore and to get you the ball consistently in a place where you're comfortable, etc. I clearly know a lot more about basketball than you do, no matter what stats you try to pull out of your ass.

Nice try, tough guy. I still play on a traveling team that goes all over the state and I'm guessing I've been playing and watching basketball for almost longer than you've been on this Earth.

Know more than me? Your arguments have been baseless, you back things up with your only evidence being what you see. I back mine up with what I see, along with the opinions of countless experts and statistics that you don't like because, frankly I would bet every penny I have, that you simply don't understand them. Essentially I've got a butt load of evidence and your evidence is in your own head and nowhere else. I don't even know why I'm taking the time to argue this with a guy who doesn't even know how many teams are in the NBA:

http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?19405-Stern-age-limit-on-Olympics-basketball&p=724000&highlight=#post724000

One other point......I see trends in you of not addressing the issue as stated, underlying anger management issues, trying (and failing miserably) to get other posters mad, biases that have no evidence to back them up, incredibly misguided perception of yourself and your limited basketball knowledge...........is that you Fiba Europe Basket/whatever you call yourself these days? Are you still mad about Nigeria? I'm taking a stab in the dark but you remind me of him a lot.

Either way, I've got an over/under of 70 posts before this guy gets banned.

Southpaw
08-18-2012, 07:05 AM
Considering Durant will only be 25 in 2014 and 31 in 2020 it's safe to say that yes Usa will be as dominant as during 06-12.

I dunno if Durant will want to play in 2014 but I think he will play in 2016 Olympics if healthy. Most likely we will see more young players with few veterans in 2014. Team USA does not really care much about world championship so I am not sure if they will win that.

Pleasant
08-18-2012, 07:19 AM
I see trends in you of not addressing the issue as stated, underlying anger management issues, trying (and failing miserably) to get other posters mad, biases that have no evidence to back them up, incredibly misguided perception of yourself and your limited basketball knowledge...........is that you Fiba Europe Basket/whatever you call yourself these days? Are you still mad about Nigeria? I'm taking a stab in the dark but you remind me of him a lot.

Haha! I know who you mean; he's still trolling on some smaller, unmoderated blogs. If you're interested in hearing the latest from him, it seems that David Stern, in addition to bribing the Olympic refs (as usual) also bribed the Spanish federation to force them to play its inferior NBA players because he knew that they would beat Team USA if they played their superior Euroleague players ;)

While I see the similarities between the two in terms of posting styles and impolite language, I also think the FIBA guy is genetically incapable of saying anything good about the USA or anything that (even indirectly) questions the superiority of Spanoulis and Greek basketball in general ;)

My three stabs in the dark about CHBB:

1. He's just a guy who's very passionate and opinionated about his basketball, and lets his emotions get in the way of manners sometimes;
2. He's the type of person who will never outwardly agree with someone or be able to be convinced to change his mind, because every conversation is a competition that he has to win; or
3. He really is FIBA/Olympiacos/VS666, posing as a Team USA fan as part of a diabolical plan to make Americans seem mean-spirited and arrogant towards other countries ;)

All meant in good fun, of course :)

Pleasant
08-18-2012, 07:34 AM
I dunno if Durant will want to play in 2014 but I think he will play in 2016 Olympics if healthy. Most likely we will see more young players with few veterans in 2014. Team USA does not really care much about world championship so I am not sure if they will win that.

It's still way too early to tell, but it seems your impressions are right on all accounts. Durant probably would play in 2016, and I do think that LeBron would be a possibility: being Team USA's all-time leading scorer and the only four-time Team USA Olympian has to have some legacy appeal.

As for 2014, unfortunately it seems like Davis is the most likely person from this 2012 team to make a reappearance. For what it's worth, ESPN is quoting a sketchy "insider" as saying that 2014 will be a youth movement team highlighted by players like Irving and Davis :)

Source: http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/basketball/story/_/id/8264404/team-usa-roster-2016

NorCal
08-18-2012, 05:10 PM
Haha! I know who you mean; he's still trolling on some smaller, unmoderated blogs. If you're interested in hearing the latest from him, it seems that David Stern, in addition to bribing the Olympic refs (as usual) also bribed the Spanish federation to force them to play its inferior NBA players because he knew that they would beat Team USA if they played their superior Euroleague players ;)

While I see the similarities between the two in terms of posting styles and impolite language, I also think the FIBA guy is genetically incapable of saying anything good about the USA or anything that (even indirectly) questions the superiority of Spanoulis and Greek basketball in general ;)

My three stabs in the dark about CHBB:

1. He's just a guy who's very passionate and opinionated about his basketball, and lets his emotions get in the way of manners sometimes;
2. He's the type of person who will never outwardly agree with someone or be able to be convinced to change his mind, because every conversation is a competition that he has to win; or
3. He really is FIBA/Olympiacos/VS666, posing as a Team USA fan as part of a diabolical plan to make Americans seem mean-spirited and arrogant towards other countries ;)

All meant in good fun, of course :)

Yeah I've caught some of 'internet basketball's most famous troll' on some other sites. At some point it actually becomes pretty entertaining instead of frustrating.

As for CHBB- assuming he's not Fiba Europe Basket- I don't have a problem with disagreeing with each other, its just the way he phrases everything in a confrontational manner and dismisses things you say that he doesn't agree on with abrasive language. Nobody likes being talked to (or written to I should say) in that way and so of course there are going to be disputes. CHBB- just tone it down a little bit and none of these threads will become flame wars. I'd like to hear your opinion on all things basketball and will respect it going forward as long as you'll do the same.

CHBB
08-19-2012, 03:09 AM
Nice try, tough guy. I still play on a traveling team that goes all over the state and I'm guessing I've been playing and watching basketball for almost longer than you've been on this Earth.

Know more than me? Your arguments have been baseless, you back things up with your only evidence being what you see. I back mine up with what I see, along with the opinions of countless experts and statistics that you don't like because, frankly I would bet every penny I have, that you simply don't understand them. Essentially I've got a butt load of evidence and your evidence is in your own head and nowhere else. I don't even know why I'm taking the time to argue this with a guy who doesn't even know how many teams are in the NBA:

http://forums.interbasket.net/showthread.php?19405-Stern-age-limit-on-Olympics-basketball&p=724000&highlight=#post724000

One other point......I see trends in you of not addressing the issue as stated, underlying anger management issues, trying (and failing miserably) to get other posters mad, biases that have no evidence to back them up, incredibly misguided perception of yourself and your limited basketball knowledge...........is that you Fiba Europe Basket/whatever you call yourself these days? Are you still mad about Nigeria? I'm taking a stab in the dark but you remind me of him a lot.

Either way, I've got an over/under of 70 posts before this guy gets banned. California's a fucking joke, kid. I've been playing against grown players who would make your best players look like unskilled nerds since I was a teenager.

Yeah, know more than you. You don't back anything up because you don't make arguments in the first place. You parrot ESPN, and there are ZERO basketball experts these days. We clear about that fact? Who's an expert exactly? Name one legitimate expert. You're just another bitch-ass internet nerd thinking he's an expert on a sport he knows nothing about. Ohhhh you play for a TRAVEL TEAM? Oh my GOD! So do twelve year olds around here. I don't put my business on the internet so don't expect me to go bragging about where I play. Unlike you, I'm not some delusional YMCA player. Oh no! I messed up and said 32 (while watching the NFL) instead of 30! That means of course that everything I say is invalid. You fucking joke.

Come say any of that to my face you Cali bitch. I fucking dare you. For real. Go ahead, you tough talking little nerd.

You can talk all the shit you like but all you are is WORDS. You've got nothing to back it up whatsoever. You try to say "people overestimate their ability to comprehend basketball" because YOU can't comprehend it.


Haha! I know who you mean; he's still trolling on some smaller, unmoderated blogs. If you're interested in hearing the latest from him, it seems that David Stern, in addition to bribing the Olympic refs (as usual) also bribed the Spanish federation to force them to play its inferior NBA players because he knew that they would beat Team USA if they played their superior Euroleague players ;)

While I see the similarities between the two in terms of posting styles and impolite language, I also think the FIBA guy is genetically incapable of saying anything good about the USA or anything that (even indirectly) questions the superiority of Spanoulis and Greek basketball in general ;)

My three stabs in the dark about CHBB:

1. He's just a guy who's very passionate and opinionated about his basketball, and lets his emotions get in the way of manners sometimes;
2. He's the type of person who will never outwardly agree with someone or be able to be convinced to change his mind, because every conversation is a competition that he has to win; or
3. He really is FIBA/Olympiacos/VS666, posing as a Team USA fan as part of a diabolical plan to make Americans seem mean-spirited and arrogant towards other countries ;)

All meant in good fun, of course :)


Yeah I've caught some of 'internet basketball's most famous troll' on some other sites. At some point it actually becomes pretty entertaining instead of frustrating.

As for CHBB- assuming he's not Fiba Europe Basket- I don't have a problem with disagreeing with each other, its just the way he phrases everything in a confrontational manner and dismisses things you say that he doesn't agree on with abrasive language. Nobody likes being talked to (or written to I should say) in that way and so of course there are going to be disputes. CHBB- just tone it down a little bit and none of these threads will become flame wars. I'd like to hear your opinion on all things basketball and will respect it going forward as long as you'll do the same.

Yo who the FUCK do you kids think you're talking to? Huh? I'm from right outside Philly, bitch, and I'll smack the taste out of your fucking mouth if you badmouth me. My username stands for my hometown, somewhere I am VERY proud to be from because, among other reasons, it doesn't produce loudmouth fucking nerds like you. Allow me to tell you this for a second time since you don't get it. Real life just came to your internet paradise so watch your fucking mouth because where I come from, we beat loudmouth nerds who can't back shit up into a pulp. Think I'm fucking playing with you?

Don't disrespect people and talk the wrong way to people and you won't hear it back. What a bunch of little kids, trying to flip everything onto everybody else.

CHBB
08-19-2012, 03:16 AM
This is the last post I will address any of the USA disgraces to basketball with. You know who you are, and if you don't, well I don't really give a fuck.

You're not experts on basketball. If you were more humble and more intelligent, you'd take the opportunity to SHUT UP and LISTEN and LEARN from somebody who is. You want to talk and talk and talk because of your little egos but then when I say to call my bluff and challenge me to point out everything on game tape, you want to just talk some more and ignore my offer because you must deep down know that you don't know as much as you'd like to think.

If it weren't the case, you'd tell me to fulfill my offer or shut up. That's the way a conversation about anything ends when somebody tries to act like he or she is an expert. You say to prove it or shut up. Otherwise, you're just as full of shit as you're claiming they are because you clearly don't want the truth to come to light or to risk the chance of being proven wrong.

Oh no! I might get banned from a site on the internet because some little USA nerds have a problem with having their little bit of basketball knowledge challenged! This of course must mean I'm not as intelligent about basketball as I claim, because it doesn't matter that these nerds are just projecting what they're doing onto me and playing some bitch ass childish games like other internet nerds do. Definitely not. It's a shame, too. Now I'll have to stop playing basketball because some internet nerds told me I don't know anything about it. Time to go cry.

Now feel free to talk all the shit you want. I'm not responding to any of the disgraceful ambassadors making MY COUNTY look bad. That's right, I'm from the US as well, right outside of Philly as I already said.

NorCal
08-19-2012, 08:15 PM
Damn, man, this guy's from Philly, that makes him tough. I better shut my mouth.

What a joke.

Anyways, mods, if you read this, don't worry about me, I'll be ignoring CHBB from now on.

Back to the topic- Pleasant, I agree with you, I think 2014 will be a youth movement. I think the USA has re-placed itself atop the international basketball world and our key guys will let the young guns come in. Its two years from now but I'm excited to see the team as there are a number of guys who I think will be great FIBA rules players.

Pleasant
08-20-2012, 05:14 AM
Its two years from now but I'm excited to see the team as there are a number of guys who I think will be great FIBA rules players.

Assuming (just for discussion) that none of the 2012 players come back to compete in Spain, who do you have in mind as guys who would be good FIBA players for each position? Here are some players I'd like to see:

Kyrie Irving is my favorite young player and I want to see his Team USA in action. He apparently dominated during the USA/USA Select scrimmages, and his rookie season was way better than D-Will's and arguably better than Chris Paul's. In two years, if he keeps it up, he'll be due for a big-stage international explosion like Durant in 2010.

Two guards from the 2010 squad I'd like to see again are Eric Gordon and Steph Curry. I remember Gordon had some strong showings in Turkey, but obviously that team was Durant's when it mattered, and so I think Gordon is severely underrated internationally. With Curry, pure shooting is always an asset against FIBA zones, and if future USA teams rely on the outside shot as much as we did this year, he surely has a place on the roster.

Another swingman that may be a longshot to make the team but whose game I really like is Kawhi Leonard. Excellent defense, good movement without the ball, good passing, and solid shooting - he's the consummate role player and, as a rookie, already showed he could play a major role on an elite, cerebral team. Hey, he was on the select team, so maybe it's not too far-fetched ;)

As for big men, Lamarcus Aldridge and Paul Millsap are the players I'd really like to see :) LMA is self-explanatory, but even though Millsap is a high-level defender, excellent rebounder, and efficient scorer, I haven't ever heard much buzz about him playing with Team USA. On a team sure to be loaded with players with offensive talent, a no-ego player who doesn't worry about touches and scores only as he needs to is an asset.

Bynum would a beast, of course, but I remember reading that he had no interest in playing for Team USA because of health concerns.

As for the current rookie class, I would say at first glance that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Bradley Beal seem to be the most promising, but I want to see them play in the NBA before judging them as players.

NorCal
08-20-2012, 05:48 AM
Assuming (just for discussion) that none of the 2012 players come back to compete in Spain, who do you have in mind as guys who would be good FIBA players for each position? Here are some players I'd like to see:

Kyrie Irving is my favorite young player and I want to see his Team USA in action. He apparently dominated during the USA/USA Select scrimmages, and his rookie season was way better than D-Will's and arguably better than Chris Paul's. In two years, if he keeps it up, he'll be due for a big-stage international explosion like Durant in 2010.

Two guards from the 2010 squad I'd like to see again are Eric Gordon and Steph Curry. I remember Gordon had some strong showings in Turkey, but obviously that team was Durant's when it mattered, and so I think Gordon is severely underrated internationally. With Curry, pure shooting is always an asset against FIBA zones, and if future USA teams rely on the outside shot as much as we did this year, he surely has a place on the roster.

Another swingman that may be a longshot to make the team but whose game I really like is Kawhi Leonard. Excellent defense, good movement without the ball, good passing, and solid shooting - he's the consummate role player and, as a rookie, already showed he could play a major role on an elite, cerebral team. Hey, he was on the select team, so maybe it's not too far-fetched ;)

As for big men, Lamarcus Aldridge and Paul Millsap are the players I'd really like to see :) LMA is self-explanatory, but even though Millsap is a high-level defender, excellent rebounder, and efficient scorer, I haven't ever heard much buzz about him playing with Team USA. On a team sure to be loaded with players with offensive talent, a no-ego player who doesn't worry about touches and scores only as he needs to is an asset.

Bynum would a beast, of course, but I remember reading that he had no interest in playing for Team USA because of health concerns.

As for the current rookie class, I would say at first glance that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Bradley Beal seem to be the most promising, but I want to see them play in the NBA before judging them as players.

I don't think any of the 2012ers will come back except Davis and there might be an outside shot of Harden joining the team in 2014, because he is so young and wasn't a huge part of the 2012 team. Anyways, that's just a hunch. I believe Davis is a future All-NBA level player and potentially a great FIBA rules player as well. He's long, versatile and can affect the game without needing touches.

I agree with most of your picks. Irving should be a leader and a huge part of the team, without a doubt. I like Curry and Gordon but Curry didn't impress me in 2010 and he's had health issues. Gordon also has the health issues but he always looked good in 2010. He's strong, an underrated defender and can play off the ball. I'd love to see him on the team.

I'm also a fan of John Wall. I think he has a lot of learning to do right now but I think he is going to improve dramatically over the next 1-2 years. He has all the tools. I'm not sure how great of a FIBA rules player he would be but he is a pass first PG who, I think, can be a good leader if he is surrounded by great finishers.

Other guards or wings I like include Klay Thompson, Paul George and, as you mentioned, Kawhi Leonard. All these guys, I think would be good fits for the national team for different reasons. I'm a big fan of George- I think he'll be an all star in a couple of years.

As for big men I like Aldridge like you said and I do like Millsap who is an underrated player. I think he doesn't excel at any one thing but he is very good at a lot of things. That, plus the fact that he plays in Utah kind of keeps him under the radar. I've never heard of him having interest in Team USA or Team USA being interested in him so he's probably a long shot.

If we wanted one more post guy who can face his man up from 15 feet or play with his back to the basket besides Aldridge I would take Greg Monroe. The guy isn't a highlight reel guy but he is very skilled and doesn't make a lot of mistakes. He's really solid but is another guy whose skill set may or may not translate to FIBA rules.

Griffin, I think may play in 2014 since he didn't get a chance to play this year. If he can be an energy guy, crashing the boards, playing solid D and getting out on the break then he belongs on the team. He isn't the ideal FIBA player but I think if he could do those things mentioned he would be valuable.

One last guy I really like that I also think will be an all star in 2-3 years just like George is Derrick Favors. The guy moves so smoothly and again, can contribute without needing to have the ball in his hands. For FIBA ball I like long, lanky post players who can come from the weak side quickly to alter shots and who can also close out on perimeter players. He's also a good rebounder and hustle guy.

Out of the incoming rooks I like Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal and Lillard as possible guys for this team too.

So this would be my roster:

PG Irving, Wall, Holiday
SG Harden, Gordon, Thompson
SF George, Leonard
PF Griffin, Aldridge
C Davis, Favors

with Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal and/or Lillard making the team if they develop well over the next 2 years.

CKR13
08-20-2012, 11:27 AM
LeBron James has expressed interest for the 2016 Rio Olympics.

LeBron James: 'It would be great' to play for Team USA in 2016 Rio Olympics (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19831406/lebron-james-it-would-be-great-to-play-for-team-usa-in-2016-rio-olympics)

Southpaw
08-21-2012, 08:08 AM
It's still way too early to tell, but it seems your impressions are right on all accounts. Durant probably would play in 2016, and I do think that LeBron would be a possibility: being Team USA's all-time leading scorer and the only four-time Team USA Olympian has to have some legacy appeal.

As for 2014, unfortunately it seems like Davis is the most likely person from this 2012 team to make a reappearance. For what it's worth, ESPN is quoting a sketchy "insider" as saying that 2014 will be a youth movement team highlighted by players like Irving and Davis :)

Source: http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/basketball/story/_/id/8264404/team-usa-roster-2016


They have to do youth movement. Their priority is always Olympic, so whoever plays well in 2014 will get chance at glory in 2016. I don't think Lebron will play. I think Durant, Westbrook, Love and Davis will all be there in 2016 if healthy. Griffin will also be there and Irving and I think both of them will play in 2014. Once again, I think team USA will be composed of versatile players. They got away last 2010 with Iguodoka at 4 and Odom at 5. The pattern continues, use speed and play uptempo.

CKR13
09-01-2012, 02:55 PM
Jerry Colangelo to stay with Team USA through Rio in 2016 (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/20007427/jerry-colangelo-to-stay-with-team-usa-through-rio-in-2016)

Straight forward
09-01-2012, 03:12 PM
PG Irving, Wall, Holiday
SG Harden, Gordon, Thompson
SF George, Leonard
PF Griffin, Aldridge
C Davis, Favors


So what you guys basically saying here - USA won't have super players in Rio if Lebron and Durant wouldn't be there?

I really doubt some of these player could develop into that level. Maybe I would bet for Irving as having the best chances of that.

And the fronline - not even a smell of new Shaq or Duncan.

NorCal
09-01-2012, 04:51 PM
So what you guys basically saying here - USA won't have super players in Rio if Lebron and Durant wouldn't be there?

I really doubt some of these player could develop into that level. Maybe I would bet for Irving as having the best chances of that.

And the fronline - not even a smell of new Shaq or Duncan.

The players I had listed were who I thought would go to Spain in 2014. As for Rio 2016- I think the big names will go- Durant almost for sure given his age in 2016 and Lebron I'd say 50/50. Rose, Westbrook, Howard, Paul, Love are all strong possibilities too. Just my opinion.

Straight forward
09-01-2012, 06:49 PM
The players I had listed were who I thought would go to Spain in 2014. As for Rio 2016- I think the big names will go- Durant almost for sure given his age in 2016 and Lebron I'd say 50/50. Rose, Westbrook, Howard, Paul, Love are all strong possibilities too. Just my opinion.

OK, my mistake. But "Rose, Westbrook, Howard, Paul, Love" are all in defferent category compared with "Durant, Lebron, Kobe" in my view.

pohani komarac
09-03-2012, 12:29 AM
If USA take it seriusly they will be dominate with no problems. Not just becose of them, but because iternational basketball is in crisis with producing "masters" of game.

Today iternationall basketball has more quality players then ever, but since 83. born players and yunger there are not so many real masters like Gasol, Nowitzki, Parker, Papaloukas, Kirilenko, Navarro, Jasikevicius, Turkoglu, Stojakovic, Bodiroga, Ginobili, Scola...etc. and those are the ones that beat USA because they gave extra quality to their teams

today basketball developent in Europe gone the wrong way. There are few yunger exceptions, but mostly today only specialst are made in Europe. I hope there will be more "superstars" in younger generations, because let's say from 83.-87. there were not manny dominate players in internationall basketall, the "real masters"

I know Terrorizerr will take this out of contest once again, but tell me now in 2012 wich players are still best in their teams, teams that fight for medals then 30 year old frats named Gasol, Parker, Ginobili, Kirilenko, Nowitzki etc. ?

Euro coaches as leaders of international basketball devlopment realy need to question their yuth level program and strategy of development in crutial period from 18 to 20 years, when kids become senior players

Victorious
09-03-2012, 04:31 PM
If USA take it seriusly they will be dominate with no problems. Not just becose of them, but because iternational basketball is in crisis with producing "masters" of game.

Today iternationall basketball has more quality players then ever, but since 83. born players and yunger there are not so many real masters like Gasol, Nowitzki, Parker, Papaloukas, Kirilenko, Navarro, Jasikevicius, Turkoglu, Stojakovic, Bodiroga, Ginobili, Scola...etc. and those are the ones that beat USA because they gave extra quality to their teams

today basketball developent in Europe gone the wrong way. There are few yunger exceptions, but mostly today only specialst are made in Europe. I hope there will be more "superstars" in younger generations, because let's say from 83.-87. there were not manny dominate players in internationall basketall, the "real masters"

I know Terrorizerr will take this out of contest once again, but tell me now in 2012 wich players are still best in their teams, teams that fight for medals then 30 year old frats named Gasol, Parker, Ginobili, Kirilenko, Nowitzki etc. ?

Euro coaches as leaders of international basketball devlopment realy need to question their yuth level program and strategy of development in crutial period from 18 to 20 years, when kids become senior players

I think that the crisis will be good for the players development in some countries. Take Olympiakos for example, they do have some potential stars walking around. And the only reason they were playing last year was because of budget cuts.

Straight forward
09-06-2012, 04:19 PM
If USA take it seriusly they will be dominate with no problems. Not just becose of them, but because iternational basketball is in crisis with producing "masters" of game.

Today iternationall basketball has more quality players then ever, but since 83. born players and yunger there are not so many real masters like Gasol, Nowitzki, Parker, Papaloukas, Kirilenko, Navarro, Jasikevicius, Turkoglu, Stojakovic, Bodiroga, Ginobili, Scola...etc. and those are the ones that beat USA because they gave extra quality to their teams

today basketball developent in Europe gone the wrong way. There are few yunger exceptions, but mostly today only specialst are made in Europe. I hope there will be more "superstars" in younger generations, because let's say from 83.-87. there were not manny dominate players in internationall basketall, the "real masters"

I know Terrorizerr will take this out of contest once again, but tell me now in 2012 wich players are still best in their teams, teams that fight for medals then 30 year old frats named Gasol, Parker, Ginobili, Kirilenko, Nowitzki etc. ?

Euro coaches as leaders of international basketball devlopment realy need to question their yuth level program and strategy of development in crutial period from 18 to 20 years, when kids become senior players

I'm not so sure about his "crisis". Off course for a new guys like Rubio, Teodosič, Mirotič, Valančiūnas, Sarič, Kanter, Motiejūnas, Hesonja, Calathes (the list is long, but these should be mentioned) will be difficult to "compete" with Dirks', Pau's, Manu's talent. But, why would 30-33yo player should be worse than 20-24yo players? I mean give young players some time. There will be masters of the game and probably bigger part of them will come not from my mentioned list.

pohani komarac
09-07-2012, 04:55 PM
I'm not so sure about his "crisis". Off course for a new guys like Rubio, Teodosič, Mirotič, Valančiūnas, Sarič, Kanter, Motiejūnas, Hesonja, Calathes (the list is long, but these should be mentioned) will be difficult to "compete" with Dirks', Pau's, Manu's talent. But, why would 30-33yo player should be worse than 20-24yo players? I mean give young players some time. There will be masters of the game and probably bigger part of them will come not from my mentioned list.

let's leave kids and see how they develope....but let's say 83-87.

not very "rich" generations....consistatly dominated by same old guy...non did eventually puted them self infront of old frats

last sevrel years was dominated by same old players...gasol, dirk, parker, ak, ginobili and is still the same, while 83.-87. born guys always look in their back with maybe exception of few decent players like bargnani, klieza, lorbek....bu when those are best what euro basketball gave latly besides bargnani you know there is problem

CKR13
09-13-2012, 02:17 PM
I feel so much better that Deron Williams is willing to suit up in two years time. Team USA will need veterans like Williams.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/001/799/890/hi-res-148332235_crop_exact.jpg?w=650&h=440&q=75

Still, in two years a lot could happen.

Straight forward
09-13-2012, 02:54 PM
Kirilenko said he's looking forward to 2016 and 2020 Olympics. Way to go! At least nice attitude. I doubt Russia won't have better forward than 39yo Kirilenko though.

cardenales
09-18-2012, 03:28 PM
One team that could become a powerhouse is Canada. They are doing a very good job with their juvenile programs, getting to under 18, under 16 world cups and doing well. Watch for this team in the future. Brasil is another team to watch and Puerto Rico, good talent pool but terrible administration.

Russia, France, Serbia and Lithuania (always have great talent), should become the mayor forces in Europe.

cardenales
10-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Back to Puerto Rico, good talent but problems in the frontline, especially in the center position. Yes, the future on this position is kind of jeopardy, Angel Luis Garcia,nice talent but problems with injury plus he is not a center. Victor Davila, havent heard of him in a while, Jorge Brian Diaz, is not going to be back in the NCAA, this decision could hurt his progress, because I read that he is back in Puerto Rico in one of the local universities. Matt Lopez and Carlos Lopez, are centers and thei develope has been very slow.