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JGX
08-09-2012, 03:29 AM
One more time for the matchup that made international basketball interesting for the last decade. Maybe one last time.

If Chandler is going to be a foul machine a "message" foul early in the game might not be a bad idea.

GustavoGanso
08-09-2012, 03:32 AM
I will support Argentina, but I believe USA by 15-20 points. Hope not.. ahahah

Dtown
08-09-2012, 04:09 AM
Lets be honest, forget geography for a second this is the real rivalry of the Americas. Third straight time these two will be playing each other in an Olympic Semifinal.

89-81 Argentina
101-81 United States

In the spirit of this for the tie breaker I'll say 95-81 United States. :cool:

reamily
08-09-2012, 04:42 AM
Campazzo's nba audition continues...:cool:

durden_tyler
08-09-2012, 04:44 AM
Cheering hard for Argentina. Very hard so it won't be a blowout.

reamily
08-09-2012, 04:50 AM
The more US checked Luis Scola the slimmer the chances of an upset

durden_tyler
08-09-2012, 04:55 AM
The more US checked Luis Scola the slimmer the chances of an upset

i doubt that it's a gauge. Better one would be Argentina's defense. Can they limit the Americans to say 80 points? 90 points?

reamily
08-09-2012, 04:57 AM
i doubt that it's a gauge. Better one would be Argentina's defense. Can they limit the Americans to say 80 points? 90 points?

they cannot do that hahah..

if they think hard about it..

durden_tyler
08-09-2012, 05:07 AM
they cannot do that hahah..

if they think hard about it..

True true. It's going to be very difficult. But if they allow a 25+ scoring per quarter from the US it's going to be even more difficult. This Olympics only Lithuania managed to hold 'em around 25 per quarter... The French actually allowed 98 only but that was already a blowout by the 2nd quarter...

For Argentina, just win the pace (a slower one) and you give yourself a chance.

jonescupfan
08-09-2012, 05:28 AM
True true. It's going to be very difficult. But if they allow a 25+ scoring per quarter from the US it's going to be even more difficult. This Olympics only Lithuania managed to hold 'em around 25 per quarter... The French actually allowed 98 only but that was already a blowout by the 2nd quarter...

For Argentina, just win the pace (a slower one) and you give yourself a chance.

Clamp down team USA's outside shooting and grind it inside, just like Australia did for three quarters. Do this and we'll have a helluva game to watch.

durden_tyler
08-09-2012, 05:52 AM
Clamp down team USA's outside shooting and grind it inside, just like Australia did for three quarters. Do this and we'll have a helluva game to watch.

And what Lithuania did as well... until Lebron took over of course.

Federoy
08-09-2012, 07:16 AM
I believe this semifinal will proceed in one of two ways: Either the US learned something about how to breakdown Argentina over the past two meetings and will exploit them to their advantage or Argentina will be emboldened against a US team they know they can score on but need to make defensive adjustments to pull off an upset.

It ought to be an interesting match. Like the previous encounters, I expect a physical, foul-plagued game played at the US's tempo. In the end, I think the US manages to scave off the Argentines and the pressure to reach the GMG and beat their South American rivals by +10. I don't expect this victory to come easy, and trust me, the officiating won't allow it either. I have a feeling LeBron, Kobe, Kevin Durant, and most definitely Tyson Chandler will be early foul trouble.

jonescupfan
08-09-2012, 07:28 AM
Booohhh to Batum for unsportsmanlike conduct....poor Parker, ran out of gas come crunch time. Can't penetrate and can't have an open look at the basket. Thought they could have won the game.

Picek
08-09-2012, 07:32 AM
time for one last tango of this great argentinian generation?
God I hope it is..
go Manu, be a God one more time..

Wayne White
08-09-2012, 08:33 AM
I have a feeling that at some point in the game expecily if its a blow out, there will be a fight between Scola and someone on the US. Past two games he seems to be center around none basketball altercations, things could esculate quickly if this game gets out of hand.

bobo81
08-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Glad to have this match up again. Let's see how competitive it turns out to be. If US cruise in this game it says a lot about how the rest of the tourny will be, imo. Anyone interested in keeping count of the flops in this game?

CKR13
08-09-2012, 12:36 PM
I have a feeling that at some point in the game expecily if its a blow out, there will be a fight between Scola and someone on the US. Past two games he seems to be center around none basketball altercations, things could esculate quickly if this game gets out of hand.

Which reminds me. K-Love is no goody two shoes. The guy can be nasty.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SDf5QO_bko

Chopin
08-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Which reminds me. K-Love is no goody two shoes. The guy can be nasty.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SDf5QO_bko

I did not watch this game, but I am shocked this was not even a foul call, let alone smth. more, the referees were blind...

usagre
08-09-2012, 01:14 PM
I tired of beating up on these guys I wish brazil had won for a change.

CKR13
08-09-2012, 01:19 PM
I did not watch this game, but I am shocked this was not even a foul call, let alone smth. more, the referees were blind...

Yep. But Love was suspended by the league for two games without pay after that.

Raze Lupin
08-09-2012, 01:48 PM
Clamp down team USA's outside shooting and grind it inside, just like Australia did for three quarters. Do this and we'll have a helluva game to watch.


How do you clamp down on team USA's outside shooting?

Raze Lupin
08-09-2012, 01:53 PM
USA vs Argentina will be a close match. I hope we can pull it out. This game will be a grind.

Chopin
08-09-2012, 02:12 PM
I tired of beating up on these guys I wish brazil had won for a change.

Isnt it 1:1 between USA and Argentina in the last two semifinals in the olympics? I agree that US are going to win this game, but your comment is not justified and a bit cocky. If the USA will become too confident and stop sending all the best players to the international championships they will start loosing again. Cockiness brings dissrespect from others and also bad results of your team and I huess you dont want any of those...

usagre
08-09-2012, 03:44 PM
Isnt it 1:1 between USA and Argentina in the last two semifinals in the olympics? I agree that US are going to win this game, but your comment is not justified and a bit cocky. If the USA will become too confident and stop sending all the best players to the international championships they will start loosing again. Cockiness brings dissrespect from others and also bad results of your team and I huess you dont want any of those...

But they have sent their best players this time , Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion and stephon. Marbury are not playing so Argentina has no chance. Call it cockiness if you want but it is also reality

usagre
08-09-2012, 04:02 PM
USA vs Argentina will be a close match. I hope we can pull it out. This game will be a grind.

Why will it be close?
Last game was a blow out, even the exhibition game was really over after the first quarter. The rest of the game was mostly garbage time, the dream team was up 15 with about 5 minutes to go when they shut it down. The 2008 semifinal was over in the first half. Even the 2006 bronze game was not that close with a far inferior USA team to this one. So what are we really talking about ? 2004 and 2002 was a million years ago with the two worst USA nba teams ever.

HeinrichMohr
08-09-2012, 11:23 PM
Argentina will need to be very aggressive in defense not letting the americans run, even if that costs them some fouls. They are capable of keeping a close game if the scoreboard is the lowest possible for them, but this Team USA is too good from the perimeter. Some teams are able to put some fight against them during half game but they have a great capacity of reaction: two straight three pointers and a couple of steals and the game is finished. They are simply one or two steps ahead from other teams.

Scola will be very important for Argentina, he's clever, but also one of the most tricky players i know.

Khalid80
08-09-2012, 11:44 PM
If Argentina is going to play their game in a way that seems they want to outscore the US like in the previous meeting then they are going to get screwed big time... I don't see that happening this time around for sure and I think they would want to try to slow the game down as much as possible... Defense is going to be a crucial factor as the US NT takes a lot of 3's in their games and if those 3's don't fall which isn't usually the case then they will be facing some problems...

Even will all this though the U.S is definitely the stronger team and should win this game with a 10-15 point margin imo...

durden_tyler
08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
If Argentina is going to play their game in a way that seems they want to outscore the US like in the previous meeting then they are going to get screwed big time... I don't see that happening this time around for sure and I think they would want to try to slow the game down as much as possible... Defense is going to be a crucial factor as the US NT takes a lot of 3's in their games and if those 3's don't fall which isn't usually the case then they will be facing some problems...

Even will all this though the U.S is definitely the stronger team and should win this game with a 10-15 point margin imo...

You're only saying that so you can pad up your lead against us mere mortals in the Prediction Game! Well, you're wrong because US is going to win by exactly 18 points!

(Cheering for Argentina still though.)

Jokinen
08-10-2012, 12:36 AM
I really donīt see Argentina winning tomorrow, this USA has to much talent they can outscore you in a blink of a eye. The only way would be if USA is subpar and if Argentina slows the pace of the game (Prigioni would be key there) and is totally intense and focused for 40 min. But USA is right there, so close to their goal, i think they are going to be very focused right from the start.

durden_tyler
08-10-2012, 12:42 AM
I really donīt see Argentina winning tomorrow, this USA has to much talent they can outscore you in a blink of a eye. The only way would be if USA is subpar and if Argentina slows the pace of the game (Prigioni would be key there) and is totally intense and focused for 40 min. But USA is right there, so close to their goal, i think they are going to be very focused right from the start.

That goes without saying really. Play them physical to throw them off their game. Well try to anyway. Frustrate them. Maybe punch a nut or something, just (try to) do everything that will make it uncomfortable for the Americans.

Federoy
08-10-2012, 02:05 AM
That goes without saying really. Play them physical to throw them off their game. Well try to anyway. Frustrate them. Maybe punch a nut or something, just (try to) do everything that will make it uncomfortable for the Americans.

So if you can't beat them, play dirty? Good to see you're supporting proper sportsmanship. :rolleyes:

durden_tyler
08-10-2012, 02:19 AM
So if you can't beat them, play dirty? Good to see you're supporting proper sportsmanship. :rolleyes:

Not Batum-dirty, i was half-kidding on the nut job suggestion. Not even Love-dirty-- like stepping on Scola's face or something.

But yes, i am serious to have a chance at the Americans you have to play real physical and to an extent dirty-- what's allowed and what doesn't get caught by the refs anyway. ;)

JGX
08-10-2012, 03:50 AM
Ginobili says that Argentina has a 5 or 10% chance of winning, the same numbers he gave before the semi in Beijing. That's more optimistic than the last time a Julio Lamas-coached Argentina played the US in an important semifinal:


Before yesterday's game, TNT's Craig Sager asked Julio Lamas, the coach of Argentina, what he felt his chances were against the Yanks. "It is impossible to win," Lamas said. Sager then said, "Well, fine, coach, but what did you tell your team?" He said he told them, "It is impossible to win."

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/43454398.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+25%2C+1999&author=Peter+May%2C+Globe+Staff&pub=Boston+Globe&desc=US+blowouts+far+too+common+in+international+e vents&pqatl=google

usagre
08-10-2012, 04:59 AM
t
Ginobili says that Argentina has a 5 or 10% chance of winning, the same numbers he gave before the semi in Beijing. That's more optimistic than the last time a Julio Lamas-coached Argentina played the US in an important semifinal:



http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/access/43454398.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jul+25%2C+1999&author=Peter+May%2C+Globe+Staff&pub=Boston+Globe&desc=US+blowouts+far+too+common+in+international+e vents&pqatl=google

10 percent is too optimistic. 5 percent sounds about right, argentina might win once every 20 times they play.

Picek
08-10-2012, 07:39 AM
t

10 percent is too optimistic. 5 percent sounds about right, argentina might win once every 20 times they play.just in order to see you humiliated. God i hope that "once in 20" is today..

Wayne White
08-10-2012, 11:33 AM
The thing is even if Argentina plays basicly a perfect games, great shot selection, timely passes, great defense, that all would just keep the game close until Lebron, or Kobe, KD, or Melo just takes over for the USA NT and closes the game out for them. One of the biggest reasons the US team is almost unbeatable is because they have so many options late in a game if it's close they can just turn on a switch and close it out for them Like Lebron did against Lith, or Kobe against Aussi's even though the game was over already. USA will win tomorrows game, I am hoping to see a competitive game but doubt it. You can try to grind it out on the inside but with the speed and athelticsim the US has they can wear down the other team's big man in a grind. I expect Argentina to put up the biggest challenge to the U.S. in todays game because they have already played twice, they know what the U.S. likes to do better than most teams because they have faced it and seen it twice.

bobo81
08-10-2012, 11:54 AM
^^ Correct. In order to beat this US team everything literally needs to be perfect. Ppl here mentioning playing US aggresively on D has shown not to win games. US will get to the FT line, and convert. US always has more gas in the tank at the end of the game, while their opponents look done. I just wish this team would show us what they can do when they play to their potential and give us non-stop hustle. Wish it would happen today.

madmax
08-10-2012, 12:32 PM
worst lithuanian NT in years managed to go toe to toe with "untouchable" USA team...:confused: So it would be only logical to assume that superior squads like Argentina can at least repeat it too, correct? USA are playing fool's gold offense in this tournament - basing all of their offense on long range jumpers and fastbreak points (which they are very good at creating, but still). I refuse to believe that such style can work every single day, especially against good defensive and disciplined teams like Argentina or Russia. I expect a close game today and I wouldn't bet my house on the winner in this matchup either...

Jon_Koncak
08-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Funny how group stages matches mean nothin for other teams but if team Usa struggles in a single quarter let alone in a whole game it's suddenly a sign of weakness.And why are you using the lithuania game since Argentina and Usa faced each other and it was a massacre(yes a massacre,i dont care if they were close for a half,a game lasts 40 minutes).Anyway Usa takes this comfortably and we all know it.No comments about a team scoring 118 ppg on 59% FG playing fools gold on offense.Just another pearl of wisdom of yours.

Raze Lupin
08-10-2012, 02:28 PM
The thing is even if Argentina plays basicly a perfect games, great shot selection, timely passes, great defense, that all would just keep the game close until Lebron, or Kobe, KD, or Melo just takes over for the USA NT and closes the game out for them. One of the biggest reasons the US team is almost unbeatable is because they have so many options late in a game if it's close they can just turn on a switch and close it out for them Like Lebron did against Lith, or Kobe against Aussi's even though the game was over already. USA will win tomorrows game, I am hoping to see a competitive game but doubt it. You can try to grind it out on the inside but with the speed and athelticsim the US has they can wear down the other team's big man in a grind. I expect Argentina to put up the biggest challenge to the U.S. in todays game because they have already played twice, they know what the U.S. likes to do better than most teams because they have faced it and seen it twice.


^^ Correct. In order to beat this US team everything literally needs to be perfect. Ppl here mentioning playing US aggresively on D has shown not to win games. US will get to the FT line, and convert. US always has more gas in the tank at the end of the game, while their opponents look done. I just wish this team would show us what they can do when they play to their potential and give us non-stop hustle. Wish it would happen today.

Wayne White and bobo81: The weird thing is about this team is that USA's athletcism is not the deciding factor in the winning games. Sure there are athletic offensive plays from time to time. The defense is athletic but giving up 93 pts over the past 3 games. The USA is simply out shooting its opponents. Especially from 3pt range. Its crazy! Forget about high flying dunks. USA is just bombing on them. I don't see how a team will guard against that without giving up the drive.




worst lithuanian NT in years managed to go toe to toe with "untouchable" USA team...:confused: So it would be only logical to assume that superior squads like Argentina can at least repeat it too, correct? USA are playing fool's gold offense in this tournament - basing all of their offense on long range jumpers and fastbreak points (which they are very good at creating, but still). I refuse to believe that such style can work every single day, especially against good defensive and disciplined teams like Argentina or Russia. I expect a close game today and I wouldn't bet my house on the winner in this matchup either...


Madmax you are not wrong. USA is very beatable. Lietuva showed this. I tend to agree with you. I expect a close grind out type of game...mostly. Much of what you say is true. 3pts and transition baskets alone "normally" should not win a tournament. Here is my question for you. Do you think its possible that Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook and Kobe Bryant will all have a bad shooting night?? That is not mentioning Chris paul and Deron Williams. Do you believe that all the players will play badly tonight against Argentina?

Kevin Durant is shooting 61% from 3pt during this tournament. Remeber world cup in Istanbul, Turkey? I would be surprised if USA shooting dried up this game.

usagre
08-10-2012, 06:53 PM
worst lithuanian NT in years managed to go toe to toe with "untouchable" USA team...:confused: So it would be only logical to assume that superior squads like Argentina can at least repeat it too, correct? USA are playing fool's gold offense in this tournament - basing all of their offense on long range jumpers and fastbreak points (which they are very good at creating, but still). I refuse to believe that such style can work every single day, especially against good defensive and disciplined teams like Argentina or Russia. I expect a close game today and I wouldn't bet my house on the winner in this matchup either...

You are living on fantasy island with Ricardo montalban if you think Argentina is going to win. And according to your logic since the dream team beat Nigeria by 83 then they would beat Greece by 90 since Nigeria beat Greece.

Navarro #7
08-10-2012, 06:54 PM
I've seen this USA team in trouble against Lithuania, so I don't see why they can not be like this today. I'm sure that Argentina knows well what to do and has experienced and also talented players that will show no fear.

mochoso
08-10-2012, 07:52 PM
Argentina will not surrender today. The golden generation from Argentina will beat USA today, and take Gold over Spain on Sunday

JGX
08-10-2012, 08:07 PM
We've seen this start before. Seen Argentina make a comeback too.

Raze Lupin
08-10-2012, 08:09 PM
I've seen this USA team in trouble against Lithuania, so I don't see why they can not be like this today. I'm sure that Argentina knows well what to do and has experienced and also talented players that will show no fear.

You should tell that to Kobe Bryant!!!!!

Navarro #7
08-10-2012, 08:20 PM
You should tell that to Kobe Bryant!!!!!

I'm sure he knew that perhaps this is the reason for his points. Ha wants to avoid problems.

Khalid80
08-10-2012, 08:31 PM
LBJ is so efficient and makes it look so easy... He's playing more aggressive and driving to the basket instead of just settling for that jump shot and that's a great strategy

Raze Lupin
08-10-2012, 08:37 PM
USA half court offense is looking good!

JGX
08-10-2012, 08:41 PM
US not hitting threes and still up 7 at the half, they have to be reasonably happy.

bobo81
08-10-2012, 08:47 PM
Even if US cannot hit shots all this hustling on D and for the off. rebs makes up for the second chance shots. We've seen the contrast in playing with the US versus Lith and Arg. When the US actually play they are unstoppable against teams in this tourny. I hope they don't back down and get comfortable with any large leads from now on.

madmax
08-10-2012, 08:57 PM
Argentina look sluggish on defense and are missing open shots too...not a recipe really to beat this USA team. Hopefully they will be sharper in the second half

JGX
08-10-2012, 09:01 PM
Guys are starting to have trouble with the slippery court.

LeBron needs to start attacking again.

bulldog3312
08-10-2012, 09:13 PM
USA's offensive rebounding, Durant, and the fact that Lebron's shooting over 80% starting to take over.

USA up by 17 w/ 1:06 left in 3rd qtr.

LTbotd
08-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Game over. Argentina as always play with 3-4 players and that is not good enough against USA. Manu is so tired that he can't even hit a rim with his 3pointer.

JGX
08-10-2012, 09:17 PM
Good thing we are playing the worst rebounding team in the tournament.

Iguodala = Tayshaun Prince?

Raze Lupin
08-10-2012, 09:19 PM
If the USA is playing good half court offense. Then watch out!

bobo81
08-10-2012, 09:22 PM
Argentina purposely throwing the game to get an early training start on the next Olympics.

David Stern doesn't look too pleased either...Wonder how much he put down on Argentina to win.

Nikoo
08-10-2012, 09:23 PM
Call the Fire department...
"I GOT IT GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE"
MELO MAN

rikhardur
08-10-2012, 09:23 PM
This is that moment when I turn it off. No respect for the opponent.

Khalid80
08-10-2012, 09:24 PM
First it was Kobe, then it was Lebron, them Durant and now Melo!!! There's no way to stop these guys when they're on fire like that!!

JGX
08-10-2012, 09:33 PM
It really should count for four points when a guy with a beard dunks.

Yay we got past 40 threes attempted.

Remon
08-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Chandler shows what a great character he is...

greenarcher
08-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Much has been said about Melo but so far he has proven his critics wrong.

Team USA using Europe's main weapon against the world, the 3pt shooting.

Pleasant
08-10-2012, 09:43 PM
Amazing. It was a close first half, but almost the whole fourth quarter was garbage time. Ginobili's airballed three-pointer and over-and-back showed just how fatigued he was. Argentina just didn't have enough to keep up for the full 40.

I have to give respect to Ginobili & co., and I hope Argentina takes away the bronze to end this generation's swan song on a high note.

Navarro #7
08-10-2012, 09:50 PM
This Argentina, some years younger... But this time they played their best and once more deserve respect by everybody. USA is impossible to handle when they are on fire.

Raze Lupin
08-10-2012, 09:59 PM
This is that moment when I turn it off. No respect for the opponent.

What are you talking about??

usagre
08-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Argentina will not surrender today. The golden generation from Argentina will beat USA today, and take Gold over Spain on Sunday

Nobody will ever mistake you for nostradamus

usagre
08-10-2012, 10:06 PM
This is that moment when I turn it off. No respect for the opponent.

Respect is not given it is earned. If you are unhappy with how things are going you try to o something about it and if you can't too bad

Victorious
08-10-2012, 10:19 PM
This US team would have problems beating many good teams without Durant and Lebron James. These players are constantly making the difference. Lebron is just so hard to guard and a serious threat, while Durant always creates the margin for the US team with his threes. After they're up by +12ps or so, the other teams give up.

Dtown
08-10-2012, 10:19 PM
The three pointers have made the US almost untouchable. Even when they weren't hitting them, and playing Argentina's pace they were still leading, but once they started falling in the Argentinians had no shot.

rikhardur
08-10-2012, 10:25 PM
I'm talking about staying humble and not humiliating your opponent. I have this stance with any team. Carmelo shooting another three from way behind just to prove what, he can score? That Argentina is too low level and he can do whatever he wants? This is what I'm talking about. Also bragging and beating your chest when you're 20+. What for? No team should disrespect the other this way. They should be happy about winning and being superior by far, not trampling on the other team.
I'm sorry, but no team/player behaving like this can ever get my respect.

Dtown
08-10-2012, 10:28 PM
I'm talking about staying humble and not humiliating your opponent. I have this stance with any team. Carmelo shooting another three from way behind just to prove what, he can score? That Argentina is too low level and he can do whatever he wants? This is what I'm talking about. Also bragging and beating your chest when you're 20+. What for? No team should disrespect the other this way. They should be happy about winning and being superior by far, not trampling on the other team.
I'm sorry, but no team/player behaving like this can ever get my respect.

If I recall correctly the shot clock was running out on most of those plays in the 4th. The US was clearly dialing it back, but like we said previously you can only dial it back so much before you have to stop playing all together.

usagre
08-10-2012, 10:37 PM
If I recall correctly the shot clock was running out on most of those plays in the 4th. The US was clearly dialing it back, but like we said previously you can only dial it back so much before you have to stop playing all together.

Hey Motown don't try to justify it, it won't work you are dealing with an opinion based on hatred, jealousy , and a touch of incompetence.

rikhardur
08-10-2012, 10:42 PM
Hey Motown don't try to justify it, it won't work you are dealing with an opinion based on hatred, jealousy , and a touch of incompetence.
It's tough to communicate with die-hard fans :)

Dtown
08-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Hey Motown don't try to justify it, it won't work you are dealing with an opinion based on hatred, jealousy , and a touch of incompetence.

Dude I know you have had some issues everyone's favorite troll, but typically we're pretty civil on this board. I might disagree with Rikhardur but I'm not going dismiss him as such.

usagre
08-10-2012, 10:47 PM
Dude I know you have had some issues everyone's favorite troll, but typically we're pretty civil on this board. I might disagree with Rikhardur but I'm not going dismiss him as such.

Just being honest, when has ever been fair towards team USA? As for being a troll I just call it how I see it. I am not going to sugarcoat the us dominance just to try to make some friends. I am sorry I just don't think these fiba teams are that good

Dtown
08-10-2012, 10:51 PM
Just being honest, when has ever been fair towards team USA? As for being a troll I just call it how I see it. I am not going to sugarcoat the us dominance just to try to make some friends.

I didn't call you a troll, just saying I know you had a lot of run ins with Olympiacos (V666 etc etc), and that not everyone speaks out of their ass on this like he does. Either way, that's all I'm saying on the issue. :)

Raze Lupin
08-11-2012, 12:11 AM
I'm talking about staying humble and not humiliating your opponent. I have this stance with any team. Carmelo shooting another three from way behind just to prove what, he can score? That Argentina is too low level and he can do whatever he wants? This is what I'm talking about. Also bragging and beating your chest when you're 20+. What for? No team should disrespect the other this way. They should be happy about winning and being superior by far, not trampling on the other team.
I'm sorry, but no team/player behaving like this can ever get my respect.

He shot the 3 because Argentina was still in the game. It wasn't like a last second 3 in the 4th quarter. They were happy and celebrating there is nothing wrong with that. If you notice Argentina was celebrating after big shots too. What is the difference? How would you have USA play? Would you prefer them to dribble the ball out every 24 seconds early in the fourth quarter. USA showed respect by playing them at full power and not treating them like children. They treated Argentina as equals, like men. As they should thats respect.


Also every nation yells, celebrates big shots or even small ones. They jump up and down on the bench etc... Why when USA does it its disrespectful?? What do you want Melo to do quit playing and patronize the Argentinians. Its a semi-final game! Not a friendly or group game. When the Argentinians were celebrating Manu's 3s and other plays was that disrespectful?

Raze Lupin
08-11-2012, 12:16 AM
It's tough to communicate with die-hard fans :)


Dude I know you have had some issues everyone's favorite troll, but typically we're pretty civil on this board. I might disagree with Rikhardur but I'm not going dismiss him as such.

I agree 100% I respect rikhardur. I just disagree. I don't believe they were acting disresoectful. The Americans are allowed to be happy and celebrate. Its natural. If Argentina was winning and USA called a time out you know they would be celebrating. I wouldn't mind either its part of the game. Its not like they were taunting Arg hard or anything. There is a lot of pressure on this team from the USA fans and media. It feels good to get a win. damn good!


I mean what do you expect them to do?

greenarcher
08-11-2012, 12:56 AM
Just saw the stats again and the most glaring stat line is Scola's 1 rebound. That's 1 offensive rebound, he had ZERO defensive rebounds.

USA had such a big win despite only having 5 steals and Argentina with just 1 more turnover than USA.

rikhardur
08-11-2012, 01:03 AM
Man, I just don't see how a team leading by so many points and being so superior needs to beat their chest like that. I just can't accept that, sorry. Play your game, win by 30+, stay humble, don't be arrogant.

Actually, this came to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_quarter

Warped
08-11-2012, 01:13 AM
For all the times I have hated the Argentinian team it is kind of surreal to see one of the most underrated and interesting rivalries in basketball (not on here but in the general public) most likely come to an end.

Can someone with more knowledge tell me how Argentina is doing on the youth end? Are they going to be completely gone from the elite or are they just taking a break for a bit before a new generation comes in?

rikhardur
08-11-2012, 01:13 AM
Just saw the stats again and the most glaring stat line is Scola's 1 rebound. That's 1 offensive rebound, he had ZERO defensive rebounds.
That's just impressive in a bad way. Goes to show how the US dominated the boards both defensively and offensively.

Pleasant
08-11-2012, 01:25 AM
Can someone with more knowledge tell me how Argentina is doing on the youth end? Are they going to be completely gone from the elite or are they just taking a break for a bit before a new generation comes in?

One of their younger players, Gabriel Deck, dominated the U17 World Championship this year and has the attention of a lot of scouts: http://kaunas2012.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/12/fu17wc/men/player/p/eid/6228/lid//pid/79872/rid//sid/6228/tid/237/profile.html

Obviously, he's just 17 and anything could happen in the next few years: he could skyrocket in talent or he could plateau. I don't know if there is any star-level talent in the 20s-ish range.

Raze Lupin
08-11-2012, 01:33 AM
For all the times I have hated the Argentinian team it is kind of surreal to see one of the most underrated and interesting rivalries in basketball (not on here but in the general public) most likely come to an end.

Can someone with more knowledge tell me how Argentina is doing on the youth end? Are they going to be completely gone from the elite or are they just taking a break for a bit before a new generation comes in?

YES!!! All true Knicks fans hate Dolan. I read on a blog that Dolan should enroll in a Lakers management class over the summer. Maybe he should learn some things from Pat Riley while he's at it. :D

Richey666
08-11-2012, 01:48 AM
Well, maybe that's the part of US strength, that they got that competitive fire. Whereas Argentinians most of the time looked like they were doing slave labour at the court. :P And it wasn't like Anthony&Co were staring at Argentinian bench, they were just happy of being in the zone. If your idea of great basketball team, is not allowing celebrate their own skills and labeling it as arrogance, i feel sorry for you, man

Man, I just don't see how a team leading by so many points and being so superior needs to beat their chest like that. I just can't accept that, sorry. Play your game, win by 30+, stay humble, don't be arrogant.

Actually, this came to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_quarter

greenarcher
08-11-2012, 01:58 AM
If you consider the humiliation US suffered (partially their own fault) from 2002 to 2006 then all these show boating and padding of stats even when the opponent has already conceded is just a normal comeback. They have always considered themselves as the world's best and there's no reason not to go all out with this mentality.

Personally I believe 2012 will end the "road to redemption" for Team USA. I just hope they don't get complacent come 2014 and 2016 or we will see another 2002 in the making.

Raze Lupin
08-11-2012, 02:11 AM
Man, I just don't see how a team leading by so many points and being so superior needs to beat their chest like that. I just can't accept that, sorry. Play your game, win by 30+, stay humble, don't be arrogant.

Actually, this came to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_quarter

USA was not up by 30 when Melo hit the 3 that disgusted you. The lead was within 20 or so. I believe 18. That is enough for Argentian to overcome if the USA had stop scoring and give up as you say. I should point out that act of clemency, mercy has to be granted when the opposing team is no longer fighting. Argentina never quit trying to score or play defense. If the USA had withdrew at the point of the Carmelo 3 then they possibly would have lost. Argentians should not be taken lightly. I should point out that Melo is on the second team, a reserve player.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm use to this accusation of arrogance. I've watched enough International sports, read in forums and blogs to know that the Americans are almost always percived as arrogant. If the game is close or we lose some will say "USA didn't respect their opponents due to arrogance "If we show quality and win by 20+ every display of passion is criticised as showboating and displays of arrogance. I rarely find an in between perception. What's interesting is from Football's premier league to FIBA tournaments, Euroleague etc. various dislays of passion and revelry can be observed.

For example; When the Greeks beat the USA they celebrated like they won a gold medal. They literally danced on our graves. Lietuva, Argentina and Puert Rico had similar actions. None of it bothered me I was happy for them. It seems the Americans because of perception can not show the same emotions. Your perception is your own reality. It is what it is I guess. until USA consistently loses and other teams are stronger they will be percived as a bully that beats on small children. Victory has its price.

bulldog3312
08-11-2012, 05:29 AM
My only wish is that Rose, Bosh, Aldridge, Howard, and Wade were healthy and we were able to field a true "A" squad.

Federoy
08-11-2012, 06:54 AM
USA was not up by 30 when Melo hit the 3 that disgusted you. The lead was within 20 or so. I believe 18. That is enough for Argentian to overcome if the USA had stop scoring and give up as you say. I should point out that act of clemency, mercy has to be granted when the opposing team is no longer fighting. Argentina never quit trying to score or play defense. If the USA had withdrew at the point of the Carmelo 3 then they possibly would have lost. Argentians should not be taken lightly. I should point out that Melo is on the second team, a reserve player.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm use to this accusation of arrogance. I've watched enough International sports, read in forums and blogs to know that the Americans are almost always percived as arrogant. If the game is close or we lose some will say "USA didn't respect their opponents due to arrogance "If we show quality and win by 20+ every display of passion is criticised as showboating and displays of arrogance. I rarely find an in between perception. What's interesting is from Football's premier league to FIBA tournaments, Euroleague etc. various dislays of passion and revelry can be observed.

For example; When the Greeks beat the USA they celebrated like they won a gold medal. They literally danced on our graves. Lietuva, Argentina and Puert Rico had similar actions. None of it bothered me I was happy for them. It seems the Americans because of perception can not show the same emotions. Your perception is your own reality. It is what it is I guess. until USA consistently loses and other teams are stronger they will be percived as a bully that beats on small children. Victory has its price.

We've had some disagreements over the past few weeks, but on this occasion, I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, arrogance is always a perception that American athletes (or our culture as a whole) must endure, so chest pounding and woofing isn't perceived as joyful exuberance but hubris (Usain Bolt does it and he's promoted as an international icon. Lucky for him he's not American!). When Team USA beats an opponent by 83 points it's perceived by some not as an extraordinary feat but as running up the score. When Kobe or LeBron are doing windmill dunks or 360s some don't see it as a display of awesome athleticism but as excessive showboating. I don't see anything wrong with the US players' actions. I don't view any aspect of their game as arrogant, pompous or in any way intentionally disrespectful to the opposition. Frankly, I've gotten to the point where I could care less about people's perceptions about the NT, both here or abroad. Hey, if people don't like them, it's whatever. The US has no shortage of supporters.

NorCal
08-11-2012, 05:21 PM
I'm talking about staying humble and not humiliating your opponent. I have this stance with any team. Carmelo shooting another three from way behind just to prove what, he can score? That Argentina is too low level and he can do whatever he wants? This is what I'm talking about. Also bragging and beating your chest when you're 20+. What for? No team should disrespect the other this way. They should be happy about winning and being superior by far, not trampling on the other team.
I'm sorry, but no team/player behaving like this can ever get my respect.

Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.

That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport. It doesn't bother me that much since I grew up playing with some guys that believe that acts like that are simply 'part of the game'. I wish it wasn't a part of the game, personally, I've never liked the 'macho' side of basketball, talking trash and putting down your opponents. Some of it is playful but sometimes it gets taken over the line and becomes disrespectful, IMO.

The chest thumping may look ugly to foreigners (and I'm not a big fan of it either as it seems to scream "look at me!!!!" instead of celebrating the lead or the great pass that got you the shot with your teammates) but it is not as ugly of a thing to Americans, I think it is a cultural thing. Kind of like when Chris Paul got mad at Pau Gasol during the NBA season because Pau touched Chris' head after a play. In American culture it is not normal for a man to touch another man's head unless he is intending to disrespect him in some way.

Jokinen
08-11-2012, 06:07 PM
Can someone with more knowledge tell me how Argentina is doing on the youth end? Are they going to be completely gone from the elite or are they just taking a break for a bit before a new generation comes in?

I like to think that we are taking a break like you said. Threre is some young and interesting players comming like Gabriel Deck (top scorer of the 2012 U17WC), and Marcos Delia (6'10 PF) who played at the Nike Hoop Summit, Franco Giorgetti (6'9" SF) and Patricio Garino (6'7" G/F will play for George Washington U this year), this last three kids played in the argentinian U19 team that reached semifinals at the U19 World Championship last year. And there is some other born in 95, 96 and 97 with good potential but they are too young to tell.

I donīt think we have anyone as good as Manu comming, tho.

Raze Lupin
08-11-2012, 07:44 PM
Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.


That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport.

1) I totally agree! Argentina was still in this game. They shouldn't be under estimated.

2)Melo yelling "Get the fuck out" and being a little macho is mild. Its even more mild when put in the context of the events that happened the last time USA played Argentina. Remember Melo was hit in the testicles. Male bravado is a part of all the most popular sports in the world Especially sports that involve contact. I think it interesting how people pick and choose what is offensive. Then they hold players accountable to some ridiculous and hypocritical standard. many My fellow Americans are just as hard on our players as foreigners.

3)I also agree with you that much is lost in translation. Ruk believed Melo hitting a three during a competitive game was offensive enough to turn away. Yet I wonder did he turn away when Melo was hit in the groin. I've watched international sports for years. Many of the celebratory acts players do could be seen as a displays of arrogance. The last two USA NT are mildly behaved by international standards. The Kiwis do a traditional dance that shows strength and is meant to intimidate. Players cross themselves, yell, chest bump, slide on the ground, remove clothing, taunt, do choreographed dances. Again USA players are held to a ridiculous, hypocritical standard.

Speaking of clemency or a mercy rule. Did you watch the Euro 2012?? The final game was Italy vs Spain. Spain beat then 4-0. Italy looked like the weaker side the entire match. Was it necessary for Spain to score that 4th and final gold? Those are rhetorical questions of course. The score doesn't matter. Let the men play it out like men. Like someone else said its whatever.

Federoy
08-12-2012, 08:08 PM
Hey Rik,

I don't have a problem with Carmelo taking that three when he's on fire, simply from a game standpoint of "anything can happen". I've seen some uber-amazing comebacks in my life and even when the USA was up by 28 and then Argentina went on an 8-0 or 10-0 run I thought "get Lebron back in there". In single elimination games you can't hold anything back and if a guy like Carmelo is on fire, heck, take the shot and strengthen the lead.

That seems to be a totally different and separate point from the whole disrespect thing. For instance, when Carmelo yelled "Get the fuck out" or whatever he yelled on that rebound, that should not be a part of the sport. It doesn't bother me that much since I grew up playing with some guys that believe that acts like that are simply 'part of the game'. I wish it wasn't a part of the game, personally, I've never liked the 'macho' side of basketball, talking trash and putting down your opponents. Some of it is playful but sometimes it gets taken over the line and becomes disrespectful, IMO.

The chest thumping may look ugly to foreigners (and I'm not a big fan of it either as it seems to scream "look at me!!!!" instead of celebrating the lead or the great pass that got you the shot with your teammates) but it is not as ugly of a thing to Americans, I think it is a cultural thing. Kind of like when Chris Paul got mad at Pau Gasol during the NBA season because Pau touched Chris' head after a play. In American culture it is not normal for a man to touch another man's head unless he is intending to disrespect him in some way.

Your point is well taken about the trash talking and woofing. Such behavior can quickly escalate out of control if your opponent takes it too personally. True story, when I was younger (a lot younger!), some friends, my brother and I got into a huge brawl with some guys at an indoor gym. We were playing 21 against a group strangers, and about five minutes into the game they started trash talking and playing physical. My brother took exception to some of the physical play, so he gets face-to-face with one of their guys and suddenly all hell broke loose. It took the gym's entire security team to separate all of us ridiculous, bawling teenagers! Certainly, there's a cautionary tale in that story about how trash talk can antagonize emotions that lead to verbal or physical confrontations.

But on the flip side, the NBA game, as with most leagues, is also about the "game within the game". Beating your opponent psychologically is as much a component to winning as the physical or strategic aspect. It's an age old tactic; get your opponent's emotions high to throw him/her off their game. So the woofing, chest-beating and histrionics becomes an extension of oneself just as performing a lay-up or backdoor cut is. Basketball is definitely not a gentlemen's game!