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Straight forward
08-06-2012, 02:43 PM
So the neighbours in fight! Fellas D. Blatt and Kemzūra against each other. As Jasikevičius said, "Russia is probably happy that they got us and we are happy as well"

Russia is a big favourite this time, but Lithuania can play strong 40 minutes one given night (games against Venezuela and USA). After the groups stages I think Lithuania will have less pressure than Russia. Russia has two big atvantages against Lithuania: superior frontline and great transition offense. If Lithuania will stop contratacks and will slow down Russia's offense (just like they did against USA) and will fight as lions for rebounds, Baltic Giants will be in semifinals 6th time in a row. That's a lot of if.

Unfortunetely it might be a sweep as well. This Lithuania is that "up and down"...

PS: How vital would be Javtokas and Motiejūnas before this game...

Shawshank
08-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Russia is playing better basketball last 2 summers no doubt.They look stronger and playing well all time.Lithuania is up and down team this summer and rebouding game can be critical,can we smaller team give fight in rebounding game? Im not sure.Russians are clear favourites here,but this game depends will Lithuania show what they can and capable of doing (we Know Russia will) If not it will be easy win for Russia.But if Lithuania gonna show up and play as we can this 1/4 can become interesting...And Lietuva has to have good night from 3point line to be suxessfull.I just hope we will give Russia real fight.

Marty
08-06-2012, 03:46 PM
4final is very specific, only one game and everything can happen. Psichology and luck means a lot in these kind of games, especially in derbies. Lithuania will be motivated as hell, so i predict an nervous and equal game. My logic says 65% Russia - 35% LT.

Dtown
08-06-2012, 03:59 PM
Pretty much every quarter final is going to be interesting, Russia's certainly the favorite but in a one game elimination between rivals anything can happen. I personally think Russia will take this, but it wouldn't shock me if Lithuania went to their 6th straight semi-final.

Hepcat
08-06-2012, 04:23 PM
I like the hint of frustration and dissension that emerged on the Russian team in today's game against Australia.


loved what just happened during TO, when Shved and Monya didn't listen/tried to argue with Blatt. Blatt said "ok, you too are out."

;)

Darknemo2000
08-06-2012, 04:51 PM
I think such five could work out.

C. Valanciunas
PF. Jankunas
Sf. Kleiza
SG. Seibutis.
Pg. kalnietis

the main advantage of such five would be height. The average height would be pretty nice to battle Russia's better frontline.

Valanciunas is broken and I dont think they will be able to fix him but as broken as he is he is still a better rebounder than Kavaliauskas and Songaila and that might prove to be more essential than the actual all around better game than Songaila and Kavaliauskas. As long as we dont ask from him to score as he is in a terrible mindset but still good for rebounding.

Jankunas is very solid Pf, better than Kleiza in many things other than scoring and rebounding.

Kleiza as a Sf could be a good idea. Not because Pacesas suggested when he commented tha game but because we really need to somehow counter russians frontline with Mozgow, Kaun and Kirilenko.

Seibutis isntead of Pocius and Kaukenas because of Fridzon. Kaukenas looked horrible against Fridzon, Pocius was better but still could not stop Fridzon. Maybe Seibutis additional cm's will help, especially since Seibutis proved what a capable defender he can be.

Kalnietis instead of Saras because of the rebounding, height and speed. Saras seems to make our game better but maybe Kalnietis can improve with that five.

Then go with Kavaliauskas, Songaila, Jasaitis, Pocius and Saras as main substitutes. Maciulis isnt exactly ready for the olympics and Kaukenas defensive woes against Fridzon might be too devastating for us.

madmax
08-06-2012, 05:18 PM
sorry to my fellow lith posters here, but I'm not holding my breath in this matchup...if we will manage to make the game competitive, that will already be a big win for us. That said, I expect russians to cruise and win by 10+ at least. I also hope and wish to hear Kemzura resigning after this game, thank you very much

auris1
08-06-2012, 06:40 PM
My money is on Russia.
But this is a game we can win either.
it all depends if we can start to compete from the very first ball.
We take too much time to establish our leaders in the game.Like today,Songaila got in only after 25 minutes.Crazy.
So if we are lucky to get it right from the very beginning ,get to a good start....
We need perfect game ,and we need for them to play badly.
Russians having some dodgy shrimp would help us as well.
But for me,since we already have gold medal as a nation,it makes things so much better to digest.5th or even 7th place doesn't look so bad.
So even one win in remaining games would make me satisfied .
And Max,honestly,hoping for someone's demise like this.Sometimes i get a feeling you are rooting for Lithuania to loose just so you can your leg over result regardless.

Raze Lupin
08-06-2012, 06:54 PM
This game is 50% each way to me.

auris1
08-06-2012, 07:32 PM
This game is 50% each way to me.

So that means that you do not have an opinion,or rather that you do not really know the game here

madmax
08-06-2012, 07:58 PM
My money is on Russia.
But this is a game we can win either.
it all depends if we can start to compete from the very first ball.
We take too much time to establish our leaders in the game.Like today,Songaila got in only after 25 minutes.Crazy.
So if we are lucky to get it right from the very beginning ,get to a good start....
We need perfect game ,and we need for them to play badly.
Russians having some dodgy shrimp would help us as well.
But for me,since we already have gold medal as a nation,it makes things so much better to digest.5th or even 7th place doesn't look so bad.
So even one win in remaining games would make me satisfied .
And Max,honestly,hoping for someone's demise like this.Sometimes i get a feeling you are rooting for Lithuania to loose just so you can your leg over result regardless.

no, I just want our NT to be coached by a qualified proper coach, who is not rotating his players in the best ice hockey style. Is that too much to ask, my dear friend?

Hepcat
08-06-2012, 08:00 PM
I also hope and wish to hear Kemzura resigning after this game, thank you very much.

Hopefully that's not what you would most like to see from this tournament....

:confused:

Hepcat
08-06-2012, 08:03 PM
But for me,since we already have gold medal as a nation,it makes things so much better to digest.5th or even 7th place doesn't look so bad.

Gold medal as a nation? Do you mean the reestablishment of independence?

:confused:

auris1
08-06-2012, 08:11 PM
no, I just want our NT to be coached by a qualified proper coach, who is not rotating his players in the best ice hockey style. Is that too much to ask, my dear friend?
Well.Max,here we go - you compare basketball with ice hockey now?
it is question for Hepcat here,but i think rotations are marginal now in the end of the game,compared of how they used to be.
If anything,we know that it is necessary to rotate players more than ever in basketball game.
Years ago 4 players would go for like 38 minutes each(like Zalgiris in 80 ).
Let me just leave you with a famous english joke

I can play all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order
Just change word "notes " to " players"

Hepcat
08-06-2012, 08:35 PM
In hockey a coach hopes to have his very best players still fresh after 59 1/2 minutes so he can put them out on the ice for the last thirty seconds or so if and when the game is still on the line. As a result, every coach cycles through four lines of forwards and three pairs of defencemen throughout the game. The very best players may log 25 minutes of ice time with the demands imposed by power plays and penalty killing.

Playoff games can be brutal though. No ties allowed, and no shootouts. They literally have to play until they drop and someone scores.

;)

auris1
08-06-2012, 08:54 PM
let me just explain the joke

I can play all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order
it was made by Morecambe and Wise,just you tube it if you know English.
the thing i wanted to say,that Kemzura can -
rotate all the players on the team- but not necessarily in the right order

madmax
08-06-2012, 09:02 PM
In hockey a coach hopes to have his very best players still fresh after 59 1/2 minutes so he can put them out on the ice for the last thirty seconds or so if and when the game is still on the line. As a result, every coach cycles through four lines of forwards and three pairs of defencemen throughout the game. The very best players may log 25 minutes of ice time with the demands imposed by power plays and penalty killing.

Playoff games can be brutal though. No ties allowed, and no shootouts. They literally have to play until they drop and someone scores.

;)

I hope you are not approving of Kemzura's chaotic rotational approach by comparing the very physical game of hockey to basketball...because that would be uninformed at best, silly at worst really:confused: I don't know a single team in the world, apart from USA star ladden squad, which can get away with crazy rotations. They confuse the players and none of them is capable of getting into the groove this way. Even such strong elite teams like Russia and Spain don't allow themselves to play this way...

Hepcat
08-06-2012, 10:17 PM
I hope you are not approving of Kemzura's chaotic rotational approach by comparing the very physical game of hockey to basketball...because that would be uninformed at best, silly at worst really :confused:

I'm not sure that his rotations are "chaotic". Granted, he subs for the starters quite quickly but the only clear star on this team is Kleiza (and even Kleiza had an off day today) so Kemzūra seems to have a relatively even pool of players from which to choose. This he does on the basis of the situation and whoever is having a stronger game. I mean which five players of the Lithuanian team have really stood out compared with their teammates so far? Jasikevičius has been the better shooting PG but he can only play about 20-22 minutes. Valančiūnas has started at C but he's had some problems out on the floor. Pocius looked as if he deserved to start, until today. Who stands out? Who is it that should be playing 25+ minutes every game?

:confused:

Mindozas
08-07-2012, 07:13 AM
Sure, we reached our goal, we're Top 8 at best now, Russia is better currently, Russia deserves it more. We're not Top4 team last couple of years, but some surprise won't be bad :o

Shawshank
08-07-2012, 10:21 AM
Sure, we reached our goal, we're Top 8 at best now, Russia is better currently, Russia deserves it more. We're not Top4 team last couple of years, but some surprise won't be bad :o

Your photo avatar is simbolic right here.You know why? 1992-08-08 those players in your photo won our first bronze medal beating russians 82-78... tommorow its exactly 20 years aniversary of that and what you know we are meeeting them once again. Maybe history will repeat again ? :) ...

lafa
08-07-2012, 02:30 PM
Maybe Seibutis additional cm's will help, especially since Seibutis proved what a capable defender he can be.


What additional cms are we talking about? Pocius and Seibutis are the same height.

Darknemo2000
08-07-2012, 03:31 PM
What additional cms are we talking about? Pocius and Seibutis are the same height.

His reach is bigger which is what gives him the additional cm.

Straight forward
08-07-2012, 03:32 PM
Sure, we reached our goal, we're Top 8 at best now

I'm sorry, but who exactly said it's our goal or it was just pure irony? :) I mean since when suddenly Lithuania is wishing to finsih 8th or 5th? Kemzura had all options he wanted - the strongest possible team for Kemzura (well, Javtokas got injured). Why suddenly our goal became being among top 8 teams as it used to be the medals since 1992? What kind of excuses come this time?

thegreekmeister
08-07-2012, 05:11 PM
I hope he was being sarcastic. I do not want to live in the world were coming on top of Tunisia and Nigeria is reaching a goal :D

Shawshank
08-07-2012, 05:50 PM
I hope he was being sarcastic. I do not want to live in the world were coming on top of Tunisia and Nigeria is reaching a goal :D

You see its harder not to make 1/4 in olimpic games,its way harder to make olimpic games tournament! and you greeks should know that even better :)

Shawshank
08-07-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm sorry, but who exactly said it's our goal or it was just pure irony? :) I mean since when suddenly Lithuania is wishing to finsih 8th or 5th? Kemzura had all options he wanted - the strongest possible team for Kemzura (well, Javtokas got injured). Why suddenly our goal became being among top 8 teams as it used to be the medals since 1992? What kind of excuses come this time?

I didnt hear any of our coaches saying its good to finish in top8 or our players.But if you watch tallent wise in this olimpics we are not in top4 and living on the earth not in dream world lithuanians agrees on that.You can agree on that but it doesnt mean we gonna be satisfied with that.No our players and coaches gonna try to win that 1/4 game.If they came short our summers performance pverall gonna be solid,but not good.In case of lost kemuzra must resign? most likely yes,but if you ask me i liked his 2010-2012 better than butautas 2007-2009 3 years period...

usagre
08-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Lithuania trying to extend their streak of semifinal Olympic appearances to 6.
Only other time they were underdogs in quarterfinals was in 2000 and they won surprisingly yet convincingly.
I don't know about this time.

Hepcat
08-07-2012, 07:43 PM
Lithuania trying to extend their streak of semifinal Olympic appearances to 6.

And making the Olympic semifinal is most Lithuanians bare minimum expectation for their basketball program. That's quite the high hurdle for any coach of the national team. If, however, the team actually wins the semi as well, then the coach and players will be accorded a Roman style triumph through the streets of Vilnius!

;)

septynix
08-07-2012, 07:59 PM
If, however, the team actually wins a semi as well, then the coach and players will be accorded a Roman style triumph through the streets of Vilnius!
With slaves and virgins and elephants and everything!

While that surely would be nice, I'd be ok with a decent game against Russians. If a better team won after an exciting, beautiful match, and the better team happened to be Russian NT, well, ok, that was predictable, but - hey, not the end of the world (that's in December, according to Mayans).

If Lithuania won - hurray, we're the best, USA watch out, et cetera, overhyped nonsense I'll gladly indulge myself in. And then I'd dream further: all group A teams advance to the semis, since it was suuuuch a meat grinder there, right, wink wink?! Lithuania wins against France, ahh sweet revenge, then - finals. LeBron chokes, Durant makes, like, only 50% 3 pts, Jasikevičius does his clutch thing, Seibutis hulks out, maybe? why not? and Lithuania wins gold! Madmax kills himself, because Kemzūra will reign forever.
That's not a very likely scenario, I'll grant you that, but a man can dream.

Straight forward
08-07-2012, 08:21 PM
I didnt hear any of our coaches saying its good to finish in top8 or our players.But if you watch tallent wise in this olimpics we are not in top4 and living on the earth not in dream world lithuanians agrees on that.You can agree on that but it doesnt mean we gonna be satisfied with that.No our players and coaches gonna try to win that 1/4 game.If they came short our summers performance pverall gonna be solid,but not good.In case of lost kemuzra must resign? most likely yes,but if you ask me i liked his 2010-2012 better than butautas 2007-2009 3 years period...

I'm only talking about last summer (Eurobasket Lithuania) and this summer (Olympics so far). This period is very dull. And that's the most important period since 2008 (Olympics). This summer NT is even more inconsitent and can't stick toghether as our NT used to. Lack of talent is really lame excuse if you ask me. To say that Lithuania is lacking talent is some misunderstanding. Argentina is playing with 4 players (not even having a center) - they just doing that very well as a team. When it's Kemzura's teams suddenly everybody find some excuses. One of the most talented young player in the world is not good for him - too young (for other he didn't even saw a place), peaking players are not good enough (Kleiza, Mačiulis, Jankūnas, Jasaitis, Seibutis) and venerants are probably too old? Let's just not make an excuses OK? :) Lithuania didn't make it in Eurobasket and Lithuania looked really bad in the group stage of Olympics. These are facts in my view.

madmax
08-07-2012, 09:15 PM
I'm only talking about last summer (Eurobasket Lithuania) and this summer (Olympics so far). This period is very dull. And that's the most important period since 2008 (Olympics). This summer NT is even more inconsitent and can't stick toghether as our NT used to. Lack of talent is really lame excuse if you ask me. To say that Lithuania is lacking talent is some misunderstanding. Argentina is playing with 4 players (not even having a center) - they just doing that very well as a team. When it's Kemzura's teams suddenly everybody find some excuses. One of the most talented young player in the world is not good for him - too young (for other he didn't even saw a place), peaking players are not good enough (Kleiza, Mačiulis, Jankūnas, Jasaitis, Seibutis) and venerants are probably too old? Let's just not make an excuses OK? :) Lithuania didn't make it in Eurobasket and Lithuania looked really bad in the group stage of Olympics. These are facts in my view.

don't bother SF...
I call this cowardly symptom of making excuses an excusitis - perfect cop out tactic for weak and obedient crowd:rolleyes:
So now suddenly we are lacking in talent and reaching a QF should be considered success? Damn, I still remember the days when any loss was considered a national tragedy for our NT - nowadays we are happy with pushing "better" teams and losing by less than 10 points. Jeez man, what is the point of even competing then, if you are resigning and waving white flag even before the first battle commences?

Straight forward
08-07-2012, 09:19 PM
Then go with Kavaliauskas, Songaila, Jasaitis, Pocius and Saras as main substitutes. Maciulis isnt exactly ready for the olympics and Kaukenas defensive woes against Fridzon might be too devastating for us.

Contrary I think Mačiulis should start. He's one of those who can fight with Russia's 3 and 4 postion players. He had some micro injuries, but he's the best defensive small forward Lithuania has. Simas should start only if Kemzura thinks Russia will start with zone defence, but that's not very likely I think. I wouldn't be surprised Mačiulis will try to guard Kirilenko.

As for Kaukėnas I agree, but I have a feeling Kemzūra will start him. When it looks like very logical choise to start Pocius or Seibutis, Kemzura starts Kaukėnas. Off course, Kaukėnas can split the defence and score, but he lets his opponents to go inside too easy this summer. Shved and Fridzon would make credit from that.

If I was Kemzura I would start Kavaliauskas. The start of the game is too much for Jonas, speically now. And that would also mean he would play more minutes with Šaras in the game probably.

Chopin
08-08-2012, 12:15 AM
It is going to be a fun game to watch. I will root for the Lithuanians but honestly I think they are loosing this game, Russia has better players overall and I would be quite surprised if they lost to this Lithuania.

Navarro #7
08-08-2012, 09:38 AM
Russia is better so I think they'll probably win although Lithuanian morale is up after facing the USA like they did.

I would like to see Saras playing a good match today. Today is the kind of days he appears in the most terrorific way for his rivals.

each way
08-08-2012, 11:40 AM
This will be a question of by how much for the Russians.

SG-
08-08-2012, 12:03 PM
First of all, madmax, can you act like a man, and true fan? gosh, you are such a cry-baby. Everything is bad for you. Just cheer for you team, if you dont believe them, dont try to adopt your opinion to other people. Every time I see your posts-its against Lithuania.

I would say, equal match. Yea yea Russia is in form, they won against us in friendly matches, but its even better! Russian frontline is not going to be as big problem as it seems, I would say Kirilenko, Shved and Fridzon are the biggest threats. I am counting in Jasikevicius today. He should go to start, with Valanciunas, Kleiza,Maciulis and Pocius. Of course if there will be bad day for us, we have no chance, but if we will play at least as good as we are able, its 50/50 match, + we have more experienced players.

I would guess 71-64 Lithuania win.

pablonis
08-08-2012, 12:35 PM
Considering the tremendous disrespect and arrogance Russian press has shown towards Lithuania, i almost wish we'd win solely for the reason of teaching those pricks a lessons. I mean, who the f*ck do they think they are....

I hope we'll win, but i'm not betting on it. Whatever the outcome will be, it will not be the end of the world, as we'll either get to the semis or get rid of Kemzura. I do think he's a good, smart coach, but i also he think he lacks balls and charisma and is unable to lead a team with so many strong characters.

What puzzles me are his remarks about Jonas, that he needs this or that... I mean you need to do that, you need to calm him down, assure him and give him confidence - after all, you're the coach and he's an overgrown teenager.

Lietuvis
08-08-2012, 12:36 PM
ok biggest game coming up for our small, tiny often unknown country on this world stage of basketball where we have been giant killers. this is either going to be a turning point in our existence and whether we start to slide out of top 5 or maintain our strength for the next decade. this game is it and on the shoulders of our national team hovers a heavy burden to continue this succesful run over the last 6 olympics to qualify for every semi final yet again.

my guess is our time has come to slide down the basketball ladders and that after this loss we will be facing australia who will also gain revenge on us after all the times that we have beaten them in the olympics. australia will finish in 5th and we will have to make do with a dismal 7th in London 2012. :(

damn i wish i am wrong but thats the way this cookie is going to crumble!

greenarcher
08-08-2012, 01:16 PM
Tremendous defense by both squads but open jump shots also not falling for both.

Dtown
08-08-2012, 01:19 PM
11-1 run to end the quarter for Russia, Lithuania being smothered by that defense.

Chopin
08-08-2012, 01:20 PM
Yes great defence by both teams, I get the feeling that they both use all their energy for defences :). Russia is great at defensive rbd, Kirilenko already with 8 rbd in first quarter...

greenarcher
08-08-2012, 01:25 PM
The shots that were falling for Lithuania against USA are not falling for them today. Lots of easy misses by both teams.

USA should watch this game closely because it seems Russia can really give them a run for their money. Excellent defense by Russia.

Raze Lupin
08-08-2012, 01:31 PM
Anyone have a link for this game??

Raze Lupin
08-08-2012, 01:37 PM
The shots that were falling for Lithuania against USA are not falling for them today. Lots of easy misses by both teams.

USA should watch this game closely because it seems Russia can really give them a run for their money. Excellent defense by Russia.

Russia still can not pull away from Lietuva.

greenarcher
08-08-2012, 01:39 PM
Shved is going to play in the NBA right? He is too much of a ballhog based on this game.

Despite the great passes by Russia they still can't put away Lithuania. Hope it stays like this til the end!

Fridzon is really a terrific shooter.

Dtown
08-08-2012, 01:39 PM
Anyone have a link for this game??

http://www.sportlemon.tv/c-6.html take your pick :cool:

Dtown
08-08-2012, 01:44 PM
Songaila might be the only reason this game is so close, he was a huge help off the bench for Lithuania.

Dreamcatcher
08-08-2012, 01:45 PM
What a crap game :(

LTbotd
08-08-2012, 01:47 PM
Kalnietis, what the fuck this guy is doing at this level? He can't do anything right. Fuck's sake... And the "useless" Songaila is the only one playing and keeping us in the game.
Oh and yes, Kalnietis is making huge progress - hit the rim with his 4th shot. Thats pretty amazing for our main PG.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 01:51 PM
You know despite his many detractors, Darius Songaila has been the best player on the Lithuanian team so far these Olympics. They said he was too old; they said he was too slow. Today however he's the only one who's playing really well.

Navarro #7
08-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Lithuania must be happy for this -5 difference. Shved has been too erratic, even shooting alone sometimes.

Some 3pt shots are being horrourful. The only good thing at this moment is that the end of the match can be exciting.

Illegal2k10
08-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Kalnietis, what the fuck this guy is doing at this level? He can't do anything right. Fuck's sake... And the "useless" Songaila is the only one playing and keeping us in the game.
Oh and yes, Kalnietis is making huge progress - hit the rim with his 4th shot. Thats pretty amazing for our main PG.

its quite obvious, he is out of shape. what do you expect, some miracle? hehe

Chopin
08-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Shved is going to play in the NBA right? He is too much of a ballhog based on this game.

Despite the great passes by Russia they still can't put away Lithuania. Hope it stays like this til the end!

Fridzon is really a terrific shooter.

He will be just fine in NBA, pg position in Euroleague is very strong and pg-s in Europe are not far behind from pg-s playing for teams in NBA, on all other positions Euroleague is far far behind imo. If Lawson can have more than 10ppg and Dragič is a star, he will do fine :D

Anyway, Russia plays much tougher and better than Lithuania, but have only 5 point advantage, so anything can happen. Lithuania managed to score 51 points in the first half against US, and only 27 against Russia. Russia is so much better at defense, but american offensive power is overwhelming, russians on the other hand, are very avarage offensive team. Btw. Kaun´s free throws are still hilarious to watch. I am waiting for Kleiza to start strong in 3rd quarter, and Pocius to play a better game in second half.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 02:01 PM
ok biggest game coming up for our small, tiny often unknown country on this world stage of basketball where we have been giant killers. this is either going to be a turning point in our existence and whether we start to slide out of top 5 or maintain our strength for the next decade. this game is it and on the shoulders of our national team hovers a heavy burden to continue this succesful run over the last 6 olympics to qualify for every semi final yet again.

That sums it up right there. Hopefully more of the fellows can find their shot in the second half. Kleiza, Jasikevičius, Kalnietis, Pocius, Kaukėnas, Jasaitis, they all need to come up big in the second half. They can't leave everything to Songaila.

:(

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 02:06 PM
its quite obvious, he is out of shape.

Physically? How can that be after a season of playing basketball? And he's been in Team Lietuva's training camp from the start. He just can't hit his shots this tournament.

:confused:

Dtown
08-08-2012, 02:24 PM
Lithuania with the comeback, we've got ourselves a game. :D

Russia by 4 ten minutes left.

Raze Lupin
08-08-2012, 02:30 PM
PASS VALENCIUNAS THE DAMN BALL!!! hE IS WIDE OPEN!!

madmax
08-08-2012, 02:38 PM
PASS VALENCIUNAS THE DAMN BALL!!! hE IS WIDE OPEN!!

this is an alien concept to Kemzura's coached team...:rolleyes:

Dtown
08-08-2012, 02:47 PM
Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers! Just like the game against the US this is Lithuania's downfall.

Chopin
08-08-2012, 02:51 PM
Great game by Kaukenas, I am glad to see that he is still capable to play great on the highest level. Shved played the worst game in the last two years probably, really terrible in spite of 6 assists...

macleopard13
08-08-2012, 02:59 PM
Considering the tremendous disrespect and arrogance Russian press has shown towards Lithuania, i almost wish we'd win solely for the reason of teaching those pricks a lessons. I mean, who the f*ck do they think they are....

I hope we'll win, but i'm not betting on it. Whatever the outcome will be, it will not be the end of the world, as we'll either get to the semis or get rid of Kemzura. I do think he's a good, smart coach, but i also he think he lacks balls and charisma and is unable to lead a team with so many strong characters.

What puzzles me are his remarks about Jonas, that he needs this or that... I mean you need to do that, you need to calm him down, assure him and give him confidence - after all, you're the coach and he's an overgrown teenager.

What do you mean a smart coach? He has nothing to say during timeouts!

I can say that our team gave a good fight today. But again, we lost due to turnovers. Nice seeing Jonas and Kalnietis step up! Great performance at the end!

I think that if there was more effort from our players - especially Kleiza, who's been snoozing in the last 2 games - we would've won the game today.

Those who carried the team:
* Kaukenas
* Songaila
* Kalnietis
* Valanciunas

Those who were off:
* Jankunas
* Kleiza
* Pocius
* Jasaitis

Too many players were off today.

Dtown
08-08-2012, 03:00 PM
I know my Lithuanian friends disappointed, but they put up a much better fight than I was expecting, every time Russia hit them with a dagger they kept coming back. The semifinal streak comes to an end, but it was incredible while it lasted. Still for a team that is rebuilding they managed to qualify for their 6th straight Olympics something unheard of in Europe outside of the two old powers Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, so a lot to be proud of.

Darknemo2000
08-08-2012, 03:04 PM
Kleiza was terrible today, Saras was no better. kalneitis looked bad in the first half and then godly in the second, but it was his mistake and missed threepointer that costs us the last hope.

Songaila, Valanciunas, Kaukenas and Kalnietis (in the second half) were our best players today. Our leaders Kleiza and Saras stank up big time.

Khalid80
08-08-2012, 03:04 PM
Congrats for Russia and tough luck for Lithuania... Lithuania worked very hard to keep the score close but every time there were uncalled for turnovers that killed their chances especially at the end along with some missed FT's as well...

LTbotd
08-08-2012, 03:05 PM
We should forget olympic and other medals until we get a decent pg and coach. Russia is a better team and has by far the better coach. Deserved win and i hope they can get a medal.
And thank God there won't be those fucking 5-8 place games.

Lietuvis
08-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Fuck Jasikevicius I have lost all respect for him. Fuck Kemzura you need to get another job as you can't coach for shit!

Shawshank
08-08-2012, 03:11 PM
we lost,its painfull...But life goes on,Our team tryed as much as they could,but those tournavers in important moments was huge.After this championship i understood how much Javtokas big body mean for us inside in defence...Right now we have huge hole in defence,i just hope robertas will not retire atleast 2-3 years from now,until JOnas will learn positioning inside and get some muscles.Today our most two important players Kleiza and Jasikevicius let us down...
Ok Russia was stronger and good luck in semifinal.You can beat us,but you can kill lithuanians love for game of basketball...We gonna comeback...

Dreamcatcher
08-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Ok, we lost. It's not a problem. The problem is, we don't have a coach and pg.

R.I.P. our National Team?

Marty
08-08-2012, 03:22 PM
With twin brothers I think our chances would be much higher in this game. But it was only one of many Kemzura's mistakes. This year's teams result is logical,they didn't showed their basketball all summer, so after the game I don't feel a big sad. Congrats to russians you deserve to win a medal. Big thanks and respect to Songaila - I always belived in this guy and never questioned about his talent despite his age, also to Kavaliauskas and Kaukenas. The biggest disappointment of this OG was Jasikevicius - he sucked almost in every game. Majority of players were played under their true potential.

macleopard13
08-08-2012, 03:23 PM
Ok Russia was stronger and good luck in semifinal.You can beat us,but you can kill lithuanians love for game of basketball...We gonna comeback...

Yes, I think next year, we're gonna rule. That is, if we get ourselves a new coach (Kurtinaitis, preferably), retire Jasikevicius (thanks for your efforts, but we don't need slow turnover machines anymore) and Kaukenas (thanks for your efforts too, but we need better defenders at your position), and include young, fast players (Motiejunas, Dulkys, etc). It's up to the Federation to remove Kemzura, or for Kemzura to honorably retire.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 03:23 PM
Still for a team that is rebuilding they managed to qualify for their 6th straight Olympics something unheard of in Europe outside of the two old powers Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, so a lot to be proud of.

Still very, very disappointing for Lithuanian fans. Team Lietuva did not beat a single contender these games and the streak of semis has come to an end. Where the game was lost today was shooting. Making only fourteen of forty from two point range was simply too low.

In hockey they say that if you want to win in the playoffs, your best players have to be your best players. Well today Rimantas Kaukėnas and Darius Songaila, two old veterans, were Team Lietuva's best. But Linas Kleiza or somebody else had to step up and at least match their performance. But it didn't happen.

:(

Straight forward
08-08-2012, 03:23 PM
I'll just quote Kvederavičius words after the game that i think is exactly spot on:

"Life goes on. These Olympics is history already. We should make conclusions, to make right decisions and to start new Olympic cycle with clean and calm conscience. We didn't prepare that well this time"

If our current never "losing" and "never having a bad result" federation will keep Kemzūra as a head coach, I'll have a very hard time following my favourite team in the world.

Fuck it. I'll put it straight forward - bring Kurtinaitis on the stage!

Gytaz
08-08-2012, 03:25 PM
Ok, we lost. It's not a problem. The problem is, we don't have a coach and pg.

R.I.P. our National Team?

We managed to rebuild a few times already. The PG problem is real, but we managed to win bronze in 2010 with only Kalnietis. And in a few years who knows... I'm actually excited because next year we'll truly start rebuilding and have a totally new team. And young teams are hungrier. It will be time for JV and D-Mo to dominate. Hopefully...

For me this was one of the most frustrating games to watch this year. So many stupid turnovers... Well, at least Jonas had a good game.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 03:38 PM
Songaila, Valanciunas, Kaukenas and Kalnietis (in the second half) were our best players today. Our leaders Kleiza and Saras stank up big time.

Precisely correct. Until Kalnietis came to life later in the second half, neither Šarūnas Jasikevičius nor Kalnietis was doing the job at PG leaving coach Kemzūra in a bind. There was a gap the size of the ocean today in the efficiency ratings of Kaukėnas, Songaila, Kalnietis and Valančiūnas and that of the rest of the team. The other players just didn't get it done at all today and you can't beat the Russian team with just four players.

:(


After this championship i understood how much Javtokas big body mean for us inside in defence...Right now we have huge hole in defence,i just hope robertas will not retire atleast 2-3 years from now,until JOnas will learn positioning inside and get some muscles.Today our most two important players Kleiza and Jasikevicius let us down....

Ok Russia was stronger and good luck in semifinal.You can beat us,but you can kill lithuanians love for game of basketball...We gonna comeback....

All true.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 03:55 PM
I'll put it straight forward - bring Kurtinaitis on the stage!

Other posters though say Kurtinaitis is a clown. I just don't know. All I know is that a coach should be hired with a four year contract to build for the next Olympic games.

And the Lithuanian basketball program must somehow develop centers and PGs, even if it means genetically cloning Arvydas Sabonis, John Stockton and Steve Nash. Any ideas on how these latter two fellows could be lured to Lithuania? And how about Šarūnas Marčiulionis? Does he have any children?

:confused:

Darknemo2000
08-08-2012, 04:00 PM
Other posters though say Kurtinaitis is a clown. I just don't know. All I know is that a coach should be hired with a four year contract to build for the next Olympic games.

And the Lithuanian basketball program must somehow develop centers and PGs, even if it means genetically cloning Arvydas Sabonis, Dick Stockton and Rick Nash. Does Šarūnas Marčiulionis have any children?

:confused:

Who are Dick Stockton and Rick Nash? Are they by chance relatives to John Stockton and Steve Nash?

Straight forward
08-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Other posters though say Kurtinaitis is a clown. I just don't know. All I know is that a coach should be hired with a four year contract to build for the next Olympic games.


Kurtinaitis won two Eurocup's trophies in recent years. He's coaching high quality team and wasn't fired contrary to Kemzura (whatever reasons there was). Kurtinaitis made a star from Gecevičius who killed all Žalgiris' team - the core of current NT. I agree there should be a discussion - for example why shouldn't Kazlauskas be on radar? But I also 100% sure, new coach should start new Olympic cycle.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Who are Dick Stockton and Rick Nash? Are they by chance relatives to John Stockton and Steve Nash?

Dick Stockton is a sports announcer and Rick Nash is a very good hockey player with both the Columbus Blue Jackets and Team Canada. While Rick Nash would be a very useful fellow to clone as well given his athletic skills, I was indeed referring to Steve Nash and John Stockton. Sorry. It's bad enough when I don't know what I'm taking about but it's worse still when I don't know who I'm talking about.

:(

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 04:17 PM
Kurtinaitis made a star from Gecevičius who killed all Žalgiris' team - the core of current NT.

I take it you mean Gecevičius played very well in a game that eliminated Žalgiris' from a Euroleague competition?

But why does Kurtinaitis arouse antipathy in some quarters? Please be objective. I just don't know.

:confused:

madmax
08-08-2012, 04:25 PM
I take it you mean Gecevičius played very well in a game that eliminated Žalgiris' from a Euroleague competition?

But why does Kurtinaitis arouse antipathy in some quarters? Please be objective. I just don't know.

most probably because he's an opinionated dude with strong leadership skills - complete opposite to soft and clueless Kemzura...there is no way he would tolerate Jasikevicius and Kleiza's effort which they displayed today in the most crucial game of the last 4 years. He also knows that basketball teams have centers too, not only undersized PF's, pretending to be them. In other words, he can trully coach a team, while Kemzura just makes excuses and pretends to know how to do it...

Straight forward
08-08-2012, 04:26 PM
But why does Kurtinaitis arouse antipathy in some quarters? Please be objective. I just don't know.

First of all, he said some harsh words about Žalgiris - it might be Žalgiris' fans :) Also he coached Rytas two seasons recently and did well.. :) Maybe they have other reasons, but they have to argument...In my account Kurtinaitis is already proven and the coach with a future. Not some Obradovič yet, but really improving every year and has some nice results.

I was refering to LKL finals.

And Kemzura didn't have a single title before he was hired. Not to mention being anywhere near to such things as Eurocup trophy.

Darknemo2000
08-08-2012, 04:29 PM
I take it you mean Gecevičius played very well in a game that eliminated Žalgiris' from a Euroleague competition?

But why does Kurtinaitis arouse antipathy in some quarters? Please be objective. I just don't know.

:confused:

He alsways makes comments agaisnt Zalgiris. When Zalgiris was close to being bancrupt he said that they should nail down the windows of the sports hall and call it an end. He also never misses chance to make cheap shots at Zalgirius like "Everyone expects us to win in every game. If we loose one game its a tragedy. Zalgiris for exmple can go 0-6 and everyone are still happy."

Comments like these are uncalled for. But other than him bashing Zal;giris from time to time he is a very good coach. He was assistant coach to Butautas in poland but he was only an asstant coach so I dont think he should be the one to blame for the head-coaches decisions.

Warped
08-08-2012, 04:35 PM
I think it is safe to say that Russia is now the biggest threat to the USA for the gold. I know Spain is still in the competition but they seem a bit off so far in this tournament (I am posting this during Q3 of France and Spain and am not impressed).

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 04:50 PM
most probably because he's an opinionated dude with strong leadership skills - complete opposite to soft and clueless Kemzura.... He also knows that basketball teams have centers too, not only undersized PF's, pretending to be them. In other words, he can trully coach a team, while Kemzura just makes excuses and pretends to know how to do it...

I said objective. None of those things are negative qualities. What are his negatives?

:confused:


there is no way he would tolerate Jasikevicius and Kleiza's effort which they displayed today in the most crucial game of the last 4 years.

Actually Kemzūra didn't. He replaced Kleiza. Kalnietis though didn't start playing well until sometime in the second half so there was not much that could be done abut Jasikevičius.

:(

LTbotd
08-08-2012, 04:52 PM
Are you all 100% sure Kurtis would say yes to the job? What about Kazlauskas(i think he's still the best lithuanian coach), Pačėsas? Could they be serious contenders?

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 04:52 PM
First of all, he said some harsh words about Žalgiris - it might be Žalgiris' fans :) Also he coached Rytas two seasons recently and did well.. :)

Oh fuck. So it's some Vilnius versus Kaunas thing again?

:mad:


He alsways makes comments agaisnt Zalgiris. When Zalgiris was close to being bancrupt he said that they should nail down the windows of the sports hall and call it an end. He also never misses chance to make cheap shots at Zalgirius like "Everyone expects us to win in every game. If we loose one game its a tragedy. Zalgiris for exmple can go 0-6 and everyone are still happy."

Comments like these are uncalled for.

Yes. Alienating half the population of a country is never a good thing, particularly if you have any political ambitions.

madmax
08-08-2012, 04:58 PM
I said objective. None of those things are negative qualities. What are his negatives?

:confused:

that's the whole point...your sarcasm detector is obviously malfunctioning here

macleopard13
08-08-2012, 05:06 PM
I agree - Kurtinaitis should be our next coach if we want to have a good chance at winning a medal next year. I loved him in Rytas! He's strict, knows how to develop youngsters and get the best performance out of them. He'll make everyone work - even stars such as Donatas and Kleiza. No efforts, no playing time. That's his attitude. Under him, even Valanciunas and Gecevicius looked great. And let's not forget how Rytas beat Khimki in 2009 with such stars on the team as Delfino, Garbajosa, McCartney, Fridzon, Lampe and Mozgov. And Rytas was the weaker team. Yet Kurtinaitis managed to use his players efficiently so that his team would win the final.

After leaving Rytas, he went to Latvia and coached the team well over there - was it first or second in it's domestic championship in group stage? After that, he went to Khimki. He coached the team to a VTB Championship title in 2011. The next year, he won the Eurocup Championship title and is moving on to Euroleague next season. And, again, here's an interview with one of the players of the team that whooped our @sses today: http://www.vtb-league.com/en/news/vitaliy-fridzon-s-prihodom-kurtinaytisa-my-stali-bystree.htm.

auris1
08-08-2012, 05:35 PM
First of all,i am really glad we did not go down without a fight.
Secondly,i am going to say that Kemzura is a good coach,and a young one too.
For me this looks simple - he needs to concentrate on his carrier away from NT team.He needs to get more experience,he needs to get smarter,and who knows,in 3 or 5 or even 10 years time he might be back.For good.
I am asking you not to dismiss him so lightly.
Third place in WC gave us a false hope.
In a way,it wasn't his fault that 2011 euro was in Lithuania and he was made to go with older players as opposite from 2010 ,where we had young and promising team.
Ok,so we got to Olympics,and suddenly we are oldest team,apart from Argentina.I do not think it was his vision to begin with.
thirdly,i do not understand people who started to hate jasikevicius.
it was catch 22 from the very beginning for him this year.
If he had declined playing for NT team,imagine reaction of the press - traitor etc..
So he played - his shot vs Puerto rico was crucial to get us to London- how about that?Do you,Lietuvis,remember this?
And the pressure and expectations put on him were unfair.

auris1
08-08-2012, 05:52 PM
Kurtinaitis is an obvious choice .
And please,i beg you,not Pacesas- he is a fraud ).Coaching Polish team and achieving like ,really nothing in Europe.
Kazlauskas is my second choice,but he is wise and probably doesn't need this hustle and attention.
There is no third choice for me,no way.
Now
Jasikevicius,Kaukenas,Broliai and Javtokas,plus probably Songaila will and should against/or willingly retire.
Jasaitis is on borderline for me.
So i say,we give one fat finger for 2013 euro,we get personal invite for WC 2014 and we go from there.
And my final thought for today -
Songaila was our best player in this tournament.
How about that.
Kudos to him and well done.
I hope he can get another contract in NBA,he totally deserves it.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 06:23 PM
thirdly,i do not understand people who started to hate jasikevicius.
it was catch 22 from the very beginning for him this year.
If he had declined playing for NT team,imagine reaction of the press - traitor etc..
So he played - his shot vs Puerto rico was crucial to get us to London- how about that?Do you,Lietuvis,remember this?

I agree 100%. While he played poorly today, Jasikevičius deserves nothing but respect for the job he's done with Team Lietuva over the years. He ranks right up there with Sabonis as one of the top two Lithuanian basketball players of all time in my book.


Jasikevicius,Kaukenas,Broliai and Javtokas,plus probably Songaila will and should against/or willingly retire.

I'm not so sure about either Kaukėnas or Javtokas retiring though. Kaukėnas was Lietuva's best player today. And without Javtokas the team defence was clearly inadequate this year. The younger centers can learn a lot from Javtokas.


Songaila was our best player in this tournament.

I agree! Songaila played really well when called upon to do so. If only a couple more fellows had played as well as Songaila did today. It would have been a different game.

:)

Terrorizer
08-08-2012, 06:32 PM
Well, I'm fine with the result but not with the way we played this game. Too much stupid turnovers, too much nervousness and suddenly our defense was constanrtly shifting from beastly form where Liths don't know what to do to complete lacklustre performance, f.e., leaving open players on the 3pt line and watching if they can nail the uncontested three. And don't forget that today there was a player playing for Lithuania in the red uniform - Alexei Shved. How much I hate this bastard! I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances. I really wish not to see this glamour bastard ever playing in Russian NT jerseys.
Surprisingly enough the best for Lithuania were the good old Songaila and Kaukenas with Kleiza (and Saras - which is a not big surprise for me) playing awfully - I made some critical comments towards them both, especially towards the first, but now I see that this summer their individual talent, experience and understanding of the game were enough to be very helpful for the Lithuanian NT despite their obvious physical limitations. Mantas was contesting shittiness of Sharas level of play in the first half but compensate for it with great performance later hitting some crucial three-pointers and making his partners playing faster, harder and more reasonably. Overall, Lithuania played one of their better games here despite the fact that our team is definitely stronger and better organised play-wise and the fact that it all was close and the game result was decided almost down to the wire is another proof that Lithuania is a solid team.
Kleiza is right in his comments after the game - among teams in the Olympiad Lithuania is 6th to 8th (alongside Brazil and Asutralia) so their result is pretty logical and I think that Lithuanian fans must not curse Kemzura or tear one's hair, they have some great overperformances in the past, now it's time for the performance adequate to their strength. And giving a tough fight to the two best teams here (with unconvincing Spain and old Argentina I think we are the second team strength-wise on this Tournament) is a good sign considering Team Lietuva's potential and having in mind that Valanciunas must play better having some experience gained and Motiejunas with Gecevicius can definitely upgrade this team's level of play.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 06:40 PM
And don't forget that today there was a player playing for Lithuania in the red uniform - Alexei Shved. How much I hate this bastard! I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances. I really wish not to see this glamour bastard ever playing in Russian NT jerseys.

Yes, I really enjoyed seeing Shved play today. How he got out of David Blatt's doghouse and onto the court though is another story.

Russia's best players, Kirilenko and Mozgov, were the ones who made the difference today.

Darknemo2000
08-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Yes. Alienating half the population of a country is never a good thing, particularly if you have any political ambitions.

Thats what Kurtis is.

He never beats around the bush. Is straight to the point and honest guy and thats not the best trait for anyone trying go somewhere higher.

He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).

Terrorizer
08-08-2012, 07:22 PM
Yes, I really enjoyed seeing Shved play today. How he got out of David Blatt's doghouse and onto the court though is another story.

I think that he can get some national medal in Lithuania for his attempts to put you into the 6th successive Olympic semis :) Luckily, he wasn't completely successful.


Russia's best players, Kirilenko and Mozgov, were the ones who made the difference today.
Maybe, but Fridzon (a great player, btw) and Khryapa weren't that bad either and even Monya hit some important triple shots. So it was more of a team collective effort than some individual heroics. And I'm happy with that.

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 07:38 PM
So it was more of a team collective effort than some individual heroics. And I'm happy with that.

I would have preferred to see some more individual heroics from Shved myself.

;)

Hepcat
08-08-2012, 07:55 PM
He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).

What?! Sakalai is the team I like in Vilnius!

Coaches like that are not a long-term proposition though. They're capable of turning underperforming teams around in the short-term, but after two or three years they burn the players out and kill their spirit. I'm not sure what would happen at the national team level though since the team is only together for a short period. But I'm afraid he might discourage players from coming out for the team.

:confused:

auris1
08-08-2012, 07:57 PM
I'm not so sure about either Kaukėnas or Javtokas retiring though. Kaukėnas was Lietuva's best player today. And without Javtokas the team defence was clearly inadequate this year. The younger centers can learn a lot from Javtokas.
:)
Well,Javtokas has been struggling with injuries for the last 2-3 seasons.
I do not think he is capable to play for NT just for this very same reason.Being 32 doesn't help his case either.
Or,he should not be considered for Nt for the reasons mentioned above.
Same goes with Kaukenas
The guy will be 37 any time soon now.
Draw the line. that's all.

Richey666
08-08-2012, 08:02 PM
Good luck watching those "neanderthals" with star mentality terrorizing poor mother Russia in finals :D Hope Putler don't beat Blatt and whole Russian team with his stick too badly after they lose final by 30 points.

I'm extremely happy that this shit of a player would go to NBA where he really belongs - basketball IQ of neanderthal man or lower, king of turnovers and a player with NBAish star mentality who makes one contested shot after another when they aren't falling at all, 0/4 from the ft line is jast an icing on the cake. Shved (no matter his jump shot ability and decent dribbling) is a shitty player overall but this summer in NT he is simple hideous. He really needs to be beaten badly for this kind of performances.

macleopard13
08-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Thats what Kurtis is.

He never beats around the bush. Is straight to the point and honest guy and thats not the best trait for anyone trying go somewhere higher.

He is also very strict. I remember how Rytas once have beaten Sakalai by 47 points and all players were not allowed to leave the court and were forced to do 50 pushups each right after the game (with the camera's still being on). The reason was that Kurtinaitis told them to win by 50 and they failed by 3 points. If he were to become next oach he might as well be the most strict coach in our national team history (though I think the best coach is still Kazlauskas).

Why by 50? Would it have given them advantage or something? Or did they do something bad to arouse the wrath of Kurtis?


Jasikevicius,Kaukenas,Broliai and Javtokas,plus probably Songaila will and should against/or willingly retire.

I'd keep Songaila for emergencies. But if there will be a younger, better F/C than him, I'd pick that player instead.

Songaila consistently did a good job in this tournament. Kaukenas, Jasikevicius were too inconsistent and too slow. Javtokas, if in shape, would be needed for physical defense. The rest of the players (except for Jasaitis) would need to be under 30 to play.

This year: 4 players over 30, 8 players under 30.
Next year: 2 players over 30, 10 players under 30.

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 09:12 AM
Why by 50? Would it have given them advantage or something? Or did they do something bad to arouse the wrath of Kurtis?

Because you need a challange. Against weaker teams in LKL you always know that unless something truly extraordinary happens they will win. Kurtinaitis likes to make it more challanging like the point difference or for example in one game against Marijampole Suduva Rytas were allowed to let Marijampole score 45 in a game and with 4:36 minutes to go in the last quarter Marijampole had a three and the result was 44, and boy you should have seen how every Rytas player were dying on court to not allow that single point. And the succeeded Marijampole couldnt score a single point during those 4 minutes straight and Kurtinaitis had to take whole team to a restaurant (him paying all bills of course).

Kurtinaitis loved doing such challanges like that. The result was that Rytas never lost against a weaker opponent and usually won by an impressive margin.


But he is very strict. Kemzura looks like a kitten compared to him.

On the other hand, Kurtinaitis differently from Kemzura is not afraid to play young players heavyy minutes. It was Kurtinaitis who made Gecevicius a leader of the team though he was still very young, he gave 17 year old Jonas in his debut game 25 minutes and he was constantly using young Buterlevicius and use him well (something that coaches after him were never able to do).

Kemzura in 2010 was forced to play with young core but when he has a choice he prefers going for more experienced players while Kurtinaitis is much more daring coach in that regard.

Shawshank
08-09-2012, 09:26 AM
I too want to try Kurtinaitis,but some people just forgets some elements and are picturing only white (kurtinaitis) and black (kemuzra).Its just not right....They remember rytas coaching valanciunas,gecevicius,uleb cup.
But how do you think whos idea was to bring mazutis in 2009 to presure the guards? same situation with dainys in rytas team? yeah it was not butuatas idea,but kurtinaitisa.Are you sure kurtinaitis assitanst wont be butautas? they are working alot with each other,rimas went to chimki and give job to butautas in latvia team and so on.Do you want to see Kurtinaitis and butautas duet on our coaching staff again ? :) I just want to see one Rimas..They are saying his not affraid to play youngster i really not sure is correct.In rytas team he didnt have anything to lose because rytas didnt have alot of strong players,so he was playing everything he got there.I agree he got the best he could out of that team.But in national team situation is little bit different...Remember 2007? they without camp named 12 players and only made one substation maciulis in slanina out.But i dont remember any youngsters in 2007-2008-2009 teams that got alot playing time.I even remember coaches try to convince stombergas to comeback to natiuonal team at age of 34.I dont understand why some people are reapeting than kuirtinaitis will work only with younger players,he said many times in press THE BEST PLAYERS MUST PLAY...Are you sure he wont bring lavrinovic brothers or petravicius to a team for example ?

I always felt national team coach shuold stay 3-4 years and then you have change it,because players are not hearing him anymore after some years.I see only 3 candidates 1.Kazlauskas 2.Kurtinatis 3.Leave Kemzura .But most likely Sabas gonna take Kurtis.

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 09:57 AM
I too want to try Kurtinaitis,but some people just forgets some elements and are picturing only white (kurtinaitis) and black (kemuzra).Its just not right....They remember rytas coaching valanciunas,gecevicius,uleb cup.
But how do you think whos idea was to bring mazutis in 2009 to presure the guards? same situation with dainys in rytas team? yeah it was not butuatas idea,but kurtinaitisa.Are you sure kurtinaitis assitanst wont be butautas? they are working alot with each other,rimas went to chimki and give job to butautas in latvia team and so on.Do you want to see Kurtinaitis and butautas duet on our coaching staff again ? :) I just want to see one Rimas..They are saying his not affraid to play youngster i really not sure is correct.In rytas team he didnt have anything to lose because rytas didnt have alot of strong players,so he was playing everything he got there.I agree he got the best he could out of that team.But in national team situation is little bit different...Remember 2007? they without camp named 12 players and only made one substation maciulis in slanina out.But i dont remember any youngsters in 2007-2008-2009 teams that got alot playing time.I even remember coaches try to convince stombergas to comeback to natiuonal team at age of 34.I dont understand why some people are reapeting than kuirtinaitis will work only with younger players,he said many times in press THE BEST PLAYERS MUST PLAY...Are you sure he wont bring lavrinovic brothers or petravicius to a team for example ?

I always felt national team coach shuold stay 3-4 years and then you have change it,because players are not hearing him anymore after some years.I see only 3 candidates 1.Kazlauskas 2.Kurtinatis 3.Leave Kemzura .But most likely Sabas gonna take Kurtis.

Kurtinaitis was not the head-coach but an assistant coach. You can hardly blame him for Maciulis not playing or over benching Kalnietis those were Butautas decisions. Do not overestate the assistants coach role. He can suggest, maybe he did suggest playing Maciulis or Kalnietis, how do you know? The did not play but it was Butautas decision, not Kurtinaitis. There is a reason why there was one head-coach and not two at the same time because the final decision had to take head-coach despite multiple assistants all around him (Kurtinaitis was only one of the five assitants on that team).

Kurtinaitis did suggest Mazutis and he was bad but in all honesty he did look better during preparation games than Prekevicius so taking him in looked logical at that point, but Dainys? I actually liked Dainys. He was pretty fine in those minutes he got and he was even Rytas leader in preseason games. I was very fine with him taking Dainys, I dont see why you see that it was bad one? In my opinion it was actually a good decision.

Shawshank
08-09-2012, 12:40 PM
Kurtinaitis was not the head-coach but an assistant coach. You can hardly blame him for Maciulis not playing or over benching Kalnietis those were Butautas decisions. Do not overestate the assistants coach role. He can suggest, maybe he did suggest playing Maciulis or Kalnietis, how do you know? The did not play but it was Butautas decision, not Kurtinaitis. There is a reason why there was one head-coach and not two at the same time because the final decision had to take head-coach despite multiple assistants all around him (Kurtinaitis was only one of the five assitants on that team).

Kurtinaitis did suggest Mazutis and he was bad but in all honesty he did look better during preparation games than Prekevicius so taking him in looked logical at that point, but Dainys? I actually liked Dainys. He was pretty fine in those minutes he got and he was even Rytas leader in preseason games. I was very fine with him taking Dainys, I dont see why you see that it was bad one? In my opinion it was actually a good decision.


Ofcourse all what was bad it was butautas,all what was good in 2009 its was kurtinaitis aha :).I remember very clearly butautas many time came to kurtinaitis and were asking in game progress what to do...They both were discusiing what players use and what not its 99% .It wasnt than butautas decided and thats all.4 year ago Kurtinaitis were very skeptical about kalnietis in one intervew.Kurtinaitis and butautas never liked kalnietis,they always leave him on the beanch even in youths championship..they better use 2007 gustas 2008 prekevicius and 2009 mazutis....They took him,just because there werent anything more to take at that position and still he sitted on the bench.But when he played 10minutes against spain,he did more that mazutis in all tournament manage to do.Dont be naive ofcourse its was both coaches after discusions decisions,what player use and what not to.But ofcourse kurtinaitis now have more experience and are better coach,but all im saying dont picture black and white BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE! Dainys isnt just Lrytas team material thats all. So if they though mazutis can help national team,dainys rytas,hmm so maybe they will think that some kind lkl player can be starting player for national team no ? :) Look at the 2005 U-20 teams of lithuania,i have feeling from t here gonna come more suprises,because butautas and kurtinaitis coach those teams.Players like kavaliaukas,alijevas,jomantas,babrauskas can have a chance again to wear national team yersey,but im just guesing :)

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 01:40 PM
Ofcourse all what was bad it was butautas,all what was good in 2009 its was kurtinaitis aha :).I remember very clearly butautas many time came to kurtinaitis and were asking in game progress what to do...They both were discusiing what players use and what not its 99% .It wasnt than butautas decided and thats all.4 year ago Kurtinaitis were very skeptical about kalnietis in one intervew.Kurtinaitis and butautas never liked kalnietis,they always leave him on the beanch even in youths championship..they better use 2007 gustas 2008 prekevicius and 2009 mazutis....They took him,just because there werent anything more to take at that position and still he sitted on the bench.But when he played 10minutes against spain,he did more that mazutis in all tournament manage to do.Dont be naive ofcourse its was both coaches after discusions decisions,what player use and what not to.But ofcourse kurtinaitis now have more experience and are better coach,but all im saying dont picture black and white BECAUSE ITS NOT TRUE! Dainys isnt just Lrytas team material thats all. So if they though mazutis can help national team,dainys rytas,hmm so maybe they will think that some kind lkl player can be starting player for national team no ? :) Look at the 2005 U-20 teams of lithuania,i have feeling from t here gonna come more suprises,because butautas and kurtinaitis coach those teams.Players like kavaliaukas,alijevas,jomantas,babrauskas can have a chance again to wear national team yersey,but im just guesing :)

Sometimes you just have to give them a shot. Petravicius was literally unknown until he was 27 years old was noticed and given a shot.

Sometimes you have to take a risk and take those mediocre players in hopes you can find someone better, sometimes you end up with Mazutis, sometimes you end up with Petravicius.

Kurtinaitis was sceptical about Kalnietis and he had a good last game in that tournament and had a great 2010 but looking back at Kalnietis career can you honestly say that Kurtinaitis was completely wrong about him? A lot of the sings he said about Kalnietis are actually valid even to this very day.

He is right now our main PG but it doesnt mean he is a good PG.

One of the reason why Saras tired so much out was because Kalnietis sucked and Saras had to play more time than he initially expected to.

Kalnietis dribble is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Thats what Kurtinaitis said about Kalnietis and he was and is right. Pocius and Seibutis are better dribbling the court than him, as Kalnietis dribbles the ball way too high. He has a very inconsistent shot, one of the reasons why opponents leave him space to shoot from distance - you he can hit a couple but miss 6 at that just as well. Its worthy to take a gamble on such player.

Kurtinaitis thought he cant shoot at all, he wasnt right in that aspect, but three years ago Kalnietis was worser at shooting than he is now, and even now you dont want to see him shoot even wide-open.

Dainys was fine. What the hell you are talking about? Did you even watch Rytas games? They took Dainys as the 3rd PG, and he was good at it. 3rd PG. Not a leader, not even a 2nd PG, a 3rd. They did not want to take Kelys as a PG because 3PG just doesnt get much time and young players need to spend their time on court, not on the bench. Dainys was for that. he played 5-8 minutes per game, sometimes in LKL he had more in bigger games less or none and he was fine with that and was ok while playing. Thats what you ask from roleplay players like Dainys.

I was perfectly fine with him playing as he was and he certainly was better Rytas material than say Prekevicius or Kestutis Marciulionis.

Jomantas was fine. Sometimes Zalgiris fans are too stupid to remember that Jomantas was actually one of the leaders of the Maciulis, Kleiza generation. It was natural to try him, just of course not at PG position. He did however stopped Navarro in the last game against Spain but whenever he went off the court Navarro went on bombing us to death. It was a funny game in that retrospect.

Some Zalgiris fans point at statistics and say Jomantas played too much forgetting that there were such situations like against Spain where he was NT's best defender and had to stay on one or another player so that he doesnt start lightening it up.

Nowadays it doesnt look like Jomantas on NT would be a great idea but back then it was fine. It was like trying Ulanovas from our U-20 team. After all Jomantas back in his youth NT days was one of the leaders together with Kleiza and Maciulis (he could score back then) he was doing fine on men basketball, so much that Sagadin put a young Jomantas in the starting line-up due to his defense. But that is what probably ruined Jomantas.

Since back in sagadin days he realized that he can get plenty of playing time by just defending and completely threw out his scoring and focused on his D. Nowadays its hard to believe that Jomantas in youth teams had 20 and more point games or in Siauliai scoring 27 or 29 was natural for him.

And that 2009 years would have not been nearly as bad for him if they did not try to make a PG out of Sf. For Kurtinaitis it worked with Eidson (it was under Kurtinaitis and not under Sireika or Trifunovic that Eidson started to shine) but never with Jomantas.

Hepcat
08-09-2012, 02:16 PM
...there is no way he would tolerate Jasikevicius and Kleiza's effort which they displayed today in the most crucial game of the last 4 years.

How the hell do you see lack of effort on their part? The problem yesterday was their shooting was off target. Linas Kleiza was one for seven. But basketball really and truly is a game of centimetres. He was off by by a centimetre or two yesterday. Had he not been off by a centimetre or two on five of those shots, people would be praising him highly today. But there was no lack of effort from the players yesterday or throughout the tournament. The reasons for their lack of success are elsewhere.


that's the whole point...your sarcasm detector is obviously malfunctioning here

In this case I would have preferred an honest answer.

:rolleyes:

Hepcat
08-09-2012, 02:52 PM
Kurtinaitis likes to make it more challanging like the point difference or for example in one game against Marijampole Suduva Rytas were allowed to let Marijampole score 45 in a game and with 4:36 minutes to go in the last quarter Marijampole had a three and the result was 44, and boy you should have seen how every Rytas player were dying on court to not allow that single point. And the succeeded Marijampole couldnt score a single point during those 4 minutes straight and Kurtinaitis had to take whole team to a restaurant (him paying all bills of course).

Hmmmmm. Let's see. Kurtinaitis' salary was probably greater than that of the whole Sūduva team. In fact, the ball boy on the Rytas team was probably paid more than Sūduva's starting point guard. Do you think that maybe a better idea on his part might have been to take out the whole Marijampolės Sūduva team to a fine restaurant after the game?

Perhaps the strapping young power forward for Sakalai might (very gently of course) have pointed out to Kurtinaitis that as a construction worker by day he didn't need to be humiliated by a better financed organization by night and Kurtinaitis might look for another way to motivate his players?

;)

madmax
08-09-2012, 03:07 PM
How the hell do you see lack of effort on their part? The problem yesterday was their shooting was off target. Linas Kleiza was one for seven. But basketball really and truly is a game of centimetres. He was off by by a centimetre or two yesterday. Had he not been off by a centimetre or two on five of those shots, people would be praising him highly today. But there was no lack of effort from the players yesterday or throughout the tournament. The reasons for their lack of success are elsewhere.



Neither Kleiza nor Jasikevicius ever played any defense or even tried to play it - FACT.
The only reason why these two guys are praised for their basketball skills is because of their offensive repertoire. And whenever they have a "bad" day offensively, they become literally worthless on the court. That's why Kurtinaitis would never tolerate lazy, non-defense playing stars on his team, unless they compensated this aspect of the game with their brilliant offensive output.

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Hmmmmm. Let's see. Kurtinaitis' salary was probably greater than that of the whole Sūduva team. In fact, the ball boy on the Rytas team was probably paid more than Sūduva's starting point guard. Do you think that maybe a better idea on his part might have been to take out the whole Marijampolės Sūduva team to a fine restaurant after the game?

Perhaps the strapping young power forward for Sakalai might (very gently of course) have pointed out to Kurtinaitis that as a construction worker by day he didn't need to be humiliated by a better financed organization by night and Kurtinaitis might look for another way to motivate his players?

;)

Kurtinaitis doesnt give a damn how much Suduva or Sakalai earn. fact is he doesnt give a damn about those teams at all. He doesnt care enough about them to see them humiliated. What he cares about is his teams effort and performance. Since against the teams like Suduva or Sakalai you cannot put yourself out nor you cannot even have a decent practice defensively he started to do those challanges to his players so that they learn to pressure the ball even in such games against Suduva or Sakalai. Its certainly better approach than Zalgiris approach which was - just win it. Why? Because you take absolutely nothing from such games other than those points in tablet, with Kurtinaitis the team at least learned to pressure the ball defensively never easing up against opponents no matter what the difference is.

This is what our U-16 lacked this year. A lot of games they lost they were winning at first but then let themselves relax and then never were able to get back in the games and lost one match after another.

You have to break them. Even when you lead 60 points or more, brake them till the very last second this is the best approach to the games, specially the games against underdogs. Its not red cross or charity organization to take pity on anyone or a resort to take a sweet relaxation time off. This is a basketball game.

Hepcat
08-09-2012, 04:56 PM
Neither Kleiza nor Jasikevicius ever played any defense or even tried to play it - FACT.

First of all that's your opinion. I'd need quite a bit of corroboration to accept that opinion of yours as fact. The only objective measure of effort available from yesterday's game is rebounds, and Team Lietuva did outrebound a taller Team Russia 43-38.

Secondly, who are the players who play defence on the Lithuanian team in your opinion?

:confused:

Hepcat
08-09-2012, 05:00 PM
Kurtinaitis doesnt give a damn how much Suduva or Sakalai earn. fact is he doesnt give a damn about those teams at all. He doesnt care enough about them to see them humiliated.

Be nice to see a player from one of those teams go on to stick it to Kurtinaitis at some point, and then be very public about enjoying what he did.

;)

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 08:28 PM
Be nice to see a player from one of those teams go on to stick it to Kurtinaitis at some point, and then be very public about enjoying what he did.

;)

Believe it or not but there are guys who prefer strict, no-nonsense approach over very lax chaos like Sireika's who allows players a lot simply because he is a very nice human person but isnt all that good as a coach.

Blatt for example is certainly more strict than Kemzura and I did not see Russians complain all that much about it even though when Shved wanted to argue about one foul and Blatt simply said "You are out" to him and benched him for the rest of the game.

He may not do pushups after the game but I doubt Kurtinaitis would do those in the final stages of the tournament as well. Preparation games are all together another beast though.

Darknemo2000
08-09-2012, 08:32 PM
First of all that's your opinion. The only objective measure of effort available from yesterday's game is rebounds, and Team Lietuva did outrebound a taller Team Russia 43-38.

We were loosing the rebound battle by 6 at the half but in the second half Kemzura limited Kleiza's minutes more and gave Valanciunas chance to play which lead to our run where Russians missed shots and Val or other players were grabbing the rebounds well.

Strange enough since Kleiza's personal rebounding stats always look very fine if not great, but as a team we better control the glass when Jankunas is on the court. Probably because Kleiza never bothers to box-oout (which was why Kirilenko had a couple of those easy put-backs against us).

Hepcat
08-09-2012, 08:58 PM
Believe it or not but there are guys who prefer strict, no-nonsense approach over very lax chaos like Sireika's who allows players a lot simply because he is a very nice human person but isnt all that good as a coach.

Actually I was talking about a player from barely more than amateur teams such as Sakalai or Sūduva whom Kurtinaitis once humiliated.


Blatt for example is certainly more strict than Kemzura and I did not see Russians complain all that much about it even though when Shved wanted to argue about one foul and Blatt simply said "You are out" to him and benched him for the rest of the game.

But from what's been posted here Kurtinaitis sounds far more harsh than David Blatt. As in many/most things in life there is a middle path. Blatt may have gotten it right as a coach.