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View Full Version : A hypothetical question: What would the result have been if China and Iran had met?



Sabz
09-25-2011, 02:24 PM
I know this is a hypothetical question, but I am just curios about the opinions of the experts and fans here. The question I'm proposing is: Had Iran not been upset by Jordan in quarter-finals, given the overall performance of China and Iran in this tournament, what would have been the outcome of a final match between China and Iran?

Please set aside your personal biases, rivalries, grudges etc, and give an honest answer.

dorianz
09-25-2011, 02:28 PM
Simple Mathematic Q

J > I & C>J

Result in

C>J>I

0____________0

Sabz
09-25-2011, 02:32 PM
I know, but this is not mathematics, it's basketball with a round ball. But even mathematically speaking, Iran has beaten Jordan 4 out of the last 5 times they've played, it's just the law of average caught up with Iran at the worst possible time. That and the fact that the Jordanian players played with their hearts and souls, and had lady luck on their side with seven consecutive threes going in during the last few minutes of the match, while the Iranian players played a relaxed and arrogant game throughout the match.

WIZARD
09-25-2011, 02:42 PM
hmmm of course they can win w/o a problem,unless if they play in china then they wont,not because china is better,but the refs that will change the path of the game in 1 single phantom call to china's favor ,play against them in any other place and u would win

tyrael0825
09-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Every place has its own homecourt whistle , i have heard enough about that and to be honest that was much better for those of u who havent seen Asia championship in Busan in 2002. I guess the most effective way is to hose this tournament in somewhere else like Russia or USA or Eyrope whatever if u wish.

WIZARD
09-25-2011, 03:08 PM
Every place has its own homecourt whistle , i have heard enough about that and to be honest that was much better for those of u who havent seen Asia championship in Busan in 2002. I guess the most effective way is to hose this tournament in somewhere else like Russia or USA or Eyrope whatever if u wish.

man things doesnt work that way..it has been done time and time again..
the chinese team is good dont get me wrong,but its not better than jor,iran.lebanon,philippines,,the only way to secure their ticket to world even is by hosting every single championship,,we have seen the level of the chinese team since the last asian cup,they barely made it throw the semis with the ref's help, and in the final game iranian team gave them a big lesson in BBall,same thing with today's final game

whocare
09-25-2011, 03:19 PM
iran win

babdelkader
09-25-2011, 04:09 PM
Iran would win by 8-10 points...

mavrick_h
09-25-2011, 04:27 PM
well it's a tough question.

both teams were the most consistent in the tournament and most of the experts/fans were waiting the final clash between the two powerhouses.

I myself was waiting for the final game between China and Iran but as you've said this is basketball with a round ball you need to respect the ball first then your opponent to achieve the best result possible.

Answering your question it would be a close game not more than 5 pts gap to China or Iran (+ or - 5 pts, 10 overall)

daniab
09-25-2011, 07:56 PM
Nobody doubts that Iran, individually, were the best team there, but their arrogant coach was kinda stupid to even think that Jordan is a walk by, eventhough that all iran's games against Jordan were close, remember semi finals 2009? jones cup 2011?

I also noticed they just relied on Haddadi, although they don't have to, when they have best players on all positions, and despite that their systems was just around Haddadi who doesn't impress me basketball wise, unlike Arsalan Samad and Afagh, those guys were limited big time this year... Gob job by matic :D

Meanwhile, China year by year, will reach a point where they might fail to even make it to semis, but they r lucky to host Fiba Asia everytime, so this is doing it for them instead, especially that Wang zhizhi and Liu Wei will not play forever and i don't see any real talents coming out there to fill the gap.

littledk
09-25-2011, 08:44 PM
I don't care whether or not China is the strongest team in Asia. The fact is, everytime China can reach the final 16 or 8 of all recent world tournament, with or without Yao. No other Asian team can make it in 21st century.

BTW, the reason why China can frequently host the Asian Championship is because only China can supply a safe (most important) and world-class game place without worry about expenses:D If any country can realize that quality, be free to compete with us.

Buran
09-25-2011, 08:52 PM
BTW, the reason why China can frequently host the Asian Championship is because only China can supply a safe (most important) and world-class game place without worry about expenses:D If any country can realize that quality, be free to compete with us.

China has an enormous capacity for hosting events and they have shown that by hosting 2008 Olympic games. But, Keep in mind that there are a lot of other countries in Asia that are safe with world class standards, which could arguably be better hosts than China (Japan, Korea, CT, some Arab countries..). It's extremely hard to argue for hosting this event twice in a row and I personally don't buy any of your arguments.

littledk
09-25-2011, 09:11 PM
China has an enormous capacity for hosting events and they have shown that by hosting 2008 Olympic games. But, Keep in mind that there are a lot of other countries in Asia that are safe with world class standards, which could arguably be better hosts than China (Japan, Korea, CT, some Arab countries..). It's extremely hard to argue for hosting this event twice in a row and I personally don't buy any of your arguments.

Personally speaking, I prefer China winning a champion outside the border and players will do better without that pressure from local Chinese fans.

The problem right now is that no other countries even compete with us. Japan has no willingness, Korea maybe has, but trust me, you will see even worse refs there. Arab countries, dont you see the reason why lebanon lost the hosting right because of safty consideration?

Buran
09-25-2011, 09:21 PM
Personally speaking, I prefer China winning a champion outside the border and players will do better without that pressure from local Chinese fans.

The problem right now is that no other countries even compete with us. Japan has no willingness, Korea maybe has, but trust me, you will see even worse refs there. Arab countries, dont you see the reason why lebanon lost the hosting right because of safty consideration?

that could be the case, maybe Japan and Korea know they will have a hard time winning and they son't show interest in hosting, but I was more specifically talking about countries like Qatar, UAE, Kuwait or Saudi Arabi when I mentioned Arab countries.

Khalid80
09-25-2011, 09:55 PM
BTW, the reason why China can frequently host the Asian Championship is because only China can supply a safe (most important) and world-class game place without worry about expenses:D If any country can realize that quality, be free to compete with us.

Maybe safe in terms of the country but not in terms of the fans and what they do :D.




The problem right now is that no other countries even compete with us. Japan has no willingness, Korea maybe has, but trust me, you will see even worse refs there. Arab countries, dont you see the reason why lebanon lost the hosting right because of safety consideration?

Regarding Lebanon it wasn't about safety.. It was about our stadiums which need to meet the proper international requirements for such a Championship as well as the availability of appropriate parking slots and traffic (which are quite a big problem in Lebanon).

mavrick_h
09-25-2011, 09:57 PM
Personally speaking, I prefer China winning a champion outside the border and players will do better without that pressure from local Chinese fans.

The problem right now is that no other countries even compete with us. Japan has no willingness, Korea maybe has, but trust me, you will see even worse refs there. Arab countries, dont you see the reason why lebanon lost the hosting right because of safty consideration?

you're kidding right ? safety seriously ? are we in a kind of war that the people of Lebanon doesn't know ? :D

Lebanon didn't lost anything. the FLB gave it away as a trade for AC 2013.

i don't know what have you heard but please stop watching the wrong tv stations. thanks :)

mavrick_h
09-25-2011, 10:03 PM
Maybe safe in terms of the country but not in terms of the fans and what they do :D.


that was only one game and against the rivals. The syrians over reacted they knew they were going to lose so they made excuses.

there are derby matches everywhere in the world and a lot worse things happen.

Khalid80
09-25-2011, 11:20 PM
that was only one game and against the rivals. The syrians over reacted they knew they were going to lose so they made excuses.

there are derby matches everywhere in the world and a lot worse things happen.

Man I was talking about the fans in China :cool:. I don't know if you are aware of these incidents that happened there...

7ClAM3zXx-I

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/gerogetown-univ-basketball-brawl-with-chinese-17679/

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/china-brazil-brawl-14936/

littledk
09-25-2011, 11:42 PM
that could be the case, maybe Japan and Korea know they will have a hard time winning and they son't show interest in hosting, but I was more specifically talking about countries like Qatar, UAE, Kuwait or Saudi Arabi when I mentioned Arab countries.

Yes, those countries are perfect choice. But I really dont see any of these countries even show an interest. Maybe that is the biggest problem Asian Basketball is facing, not many countries are like China, which has a huge population of basketball fans.

littledk
09-25-2011, 11:43 PM
Maybe safe in terms of the country but not in terms of the fans and what they do :D.




Regarding Lebanon it wasn't about safety.. It was about our stadiums which need to meet the proper international requirements for such a Championship as well as the availability of appropriate parking slots and traffic (which are quite a big problem in Lebanon).

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding since I heard the news from our basketball forum.

littledk
09-25-2011, 11:45 PM
you're kidding right ? safety seriously ? are we in a kind of war that the people of Lebanon doesn't know ? :D

Lebanon didn't lost anything. the FLB gave it away as a trade for AC 2013.

i don't know what have you heard but please stop watching the wrong tv stations. thanks :)

Sorry for what I have said:) Wish your country good luck in 2013

littledk
09-25-2011, 11:46 PM
that was only one game and against the rivals. The syrians over reacted they knew they were going to lose so they made excuses.

there are derby matches everywhere in the world and a lot worse things happen.

I totally understand the reactions. Same thing will happen if our national team faces Japan NT:D

littledk
09-25-2011, 11:49 PM
Man I was talking about the fans in China :cool:. I don't know if you are aware of these incidents that happened there...

7ClAM3zXx-I

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/gerogetown-univ-basketball-brawl-with-chinese-17679/

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/china-brazil-brawl-14936/

That is a war between China and U.S., haha. Actually the fans did nothing, only a fight between the young men. BTW, Vice President Joe Biden was watching the game and got totally embarrassed.........

oldnews
09-26-2011, 02:36 AM
Nobody doubts that Iran, individually, were the best team there, but their arrogant coach was kinda stupid to even think that Jordan is a walk by, eventhough that all iran's games against Jordan were close, remember semi finals 2009? jones cup 2011?

I also noticed they just relied on Haddadi, although they don't have to, when they have best players on all positions, and despite that their systems was just around Haddadi who doesn't impress me basketball wise, unlike Arsalan Samad and Afagh, those guys were limited big time this year... Gob job by matic :D

Meanwhile, China year by year, will reach a point where they might fail to even make it to semis, but they r lucky to host Fiba Asia everytime, so this is doing it for them instead, especially that Wang zhizhi and Liu Wei will not play forever and i don't see any real talents coming out there to fill the gap.

Don't worry for us.
We are still the only asian team who enter the second round in WC 2010.
And we are still dominating the ABC U19 with a lot young talent.

Brown Bones
09-26-2011, 04:15 AM
I know, but this is not mathematics, it's basketball with a round ball. But even mathematically speaking, Iran has beaten Jordan 4 out of the last 5 times they've played, it's just the law of average caught up with Iran at the worst possible time. That and the fact that the Jordanian players played with their hearts and souls, and had lady luck on their side with seven consecutive threes going in during the last few minutes of the match, while the Iranian players played a relaxed and arrogant game throughout the match.

You said it right Sabz, I think Iran got overconfident. Honestly speaking aside from my team:D I want Iran, Jordan to win this tournament and our asian neighbor South Korea their just great to watch with their flawless shooting.

Btw, congratulations to China they played just enough to win this tournament.

Khalid80
09-26-2011, 05:54 AM
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding since I heard the news from our basketball forum.

No problem. Mei shi :)

daniab
09-26-2011, 06:37 AM
Don't worry for us.
We are still the only asian team who enter the second round in WC 2010.
And we are still dominating the ABC U19 with a lot young talent.

what this has to do with what i said? We all know how did u enter the second round so give me a break :D
And oh yes, China has been dominating the youth tournaments with overraged players, and between where are those young players? i did not see anyone of them in the senior team except for Guo Ailun last year and he isn't that GREAT either.

mavrick_h
09-26-2011, 09:34 AM
Man I was talking about the fans in China :cool:. I don't know if you are aware of these incidents that happened there...

7ClAM3zXx-I

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/gerogetown-univ-basketball-brawl-with-chinese-17679/

http://forums.interbasket.net/f21/china-brazil-brawl-14936/

oh ok no i didn't that doesn't look good lol

i rarely surf around in the forum (if it was posted here) so thanks for the info:)

mavrick_h
09-26-2011, 09:36 AM
Sorry for what I have said:) Wish your country good luck in 2013

yup same to you :)

oldnews
09-26-2011, 09:39 AM
what this has to do with what i said? We all know how did u enter the second round so give me a break :D
And oh yes, China has been dominating the youth tournaments with overraged players, and between where are those young players? i did not see anyone of them in the senior team except for Guo Ailun last year and he isn't that GREAT either.

how did we enter the second round?

China 81-89 Greece
China 83-73 Cote d'ivoire
China 76-84 Puerto Rico
China 80-89 Russian
China 40-87 Turkey (Bob play 5 babys because we had already qualified)
China 67-78 Lithuania

of course you can keep worrying for us. There is a Chinese saying 'The emperor no worry, eunuch worry'. it's your freedom.

PS Guo Ailun is not even close to the young talents who I mention.

Khalid80
09-26-2011, 10:07 AM
how did we enter the second round?

China 81-89 Greece
China 83-73 Cote d'ivoire
China 76-84 Puerto Rico
China 80-89 Russian
China 40-87 Turkey (Bob play 5 babys because we had already qualified)
China 67-78 Lithuania

PS Guo Ailun is not even close to the young talents who I mention.

I think Dany is trying to say that China was lucky to get into the second round of the 2010 World Championships since China, Puerto Rico and Cote D'Ivoire were all tied with 1 win and 4 losses but China had a better goal average and that's why they qualified.

The young talents you are talking about are Wang Zhelin, Li Muhao and Zhou Qi?

Khalid80
09-26-2011, 10:20 AM
I know this is a hypothetical question, but I am just curios about the opinions of the experts and fans here. The question I'm proposing is: Had Iran not been upset by Jordan in quarter-finals, given the overall performance of China and Iran in this tournament, what would have been the outcome of a final match between China and Iran?

Please set aside your personal biases, rivalries, grudges etc, and give an honest answer.

I never answered this hypothetical question so this is my take on it.

Had Iran not lost to Jordan and qualified to the finals and met with China I don't believe the outcome would have been much different to the Jordan-China game... It would have been a very close game and either team could have won.

I don't think Iran would have been able to repeat their dominant performance against China 2 years earlier...

Reasons (in my opinion):
- I think China were better prepared to face Iran this time around even though their results in the previous rounds showed otherwise.
- China would have been more focused and wanted to get back at Iran for their loss 2 years ago.

whocare
09-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Nobody doubts that Iran, individually, were the best team there, but their arrogant coach was kinda stupid to even think that Jordan is a walk by, eventhough that all iran's games against Jordan were close, remember semi finals 2009? jones cup 2011?

I also noticed they just relied on Haddadi, although they don't have to, when they have best players on all positions, and despite that their systems was just around Haddadi who doesn't impress me basketball wise, unlike Arsalan Samad and Afagh, those guys were limited big time this year... Gob job by matic :D

Meanwhile, China year by year, will reach a point where they might fail to even make it to semis, but they r lucky to host Fiba Asia everytime, so this is doing it for them instead, especially that Wang zhizhi and Liu Wei will not play forever and i don't see any real talents coming out there to fill the gap.


there are some talents already. in a China U20(or B-team) now. "u do not see" thats your problem.

please dont ban me
09-26-2011, 02:45 PM
iran lost to jordan by 4, jordan lost to china by 1.
they are all close. this games would be decided by details. and its hard to predict.

please dont ban me
09-26-2011, 02:51 PM
yi jianlian still has 8 years in him at least. so china will always contend with him.if they ever produce another talent beside, they will keep to dominate 4ever

Ty000
09-26-2011, 11:08 PM
i pick China would win. I felt Iran was just not the same team from 2yrs ago.

Romia
09-28-2011, 01:35 AM
i pick China would win. I felt Iran was just not the same team from 2yrs ago.

That's it !!!

For their arragont,Frankly,the big margin made in preliminary group by Iran NT makes some illusion that they are "USA Dream team" in Asia

Actually ,they are way to reach that Position in Asia .Only China who did ever reached that Position in Asia(win their opponent 30+ per game in AC).

Bear in mind ,you should modest and humble ,even you got "Dream team" faculty ,not only in Asia ,but everywhere and every field.

why Iran NT lost?no ,not by the Jordanese,not the Chinese .
but the arrogant and the big margin in the group game killed them
Looking back to 2yrs ago,China NT do the same as Iran NT do now,meanwhile the Iran NT is a challenger,put themselves at a position of challenger

Romia
09-28-2011, 01:54 AM
just for fan

or else ,any hypothetical is nonsense.
just look through the history in formal game ,the China NT is not so bad when the met European NT who are 5-8 position in Euro Game,the performance is 3w and 3L,and also If the all players available,according to WC 2010,also The China NT played not so bad when they counter Serbia ,Russia and even Lithuvia.

I really have no idea someone here without a basis by saying undoutbtly "a neutral place or other place the Iran NT would win"

ylaine
09-28-2011, 02:16 AM
most likely the host will win.

EL TERRIBLE
10-01-2011, 11:19 AM
Nobody doubts that Iran, individually, were the best team there, but their arrogant coach was kinda stupid to even think that Jordan is a walk by, eventhough that all iran's games against Jordan were close, remember semi finals 2009? jones cup 2011?

I also noticed they just relied on Haddadi, although they don't have to, when they have best players on all positions, and despite that their systems was just around Haddadi who doesn't impress me basketball wise, unlike Arsalan Samad and Afagh, those guys were limited big time this year... Gob job by matic :D

Meanwhile, China year by year, will reach a point where they might fail to even make it to semis, but they r lucky to host Fiba Asia everytime, so this is doing it for them instead, especially that Wang zhizhi and Liu Wei will not play forever and i don't see any real talents coming out there to fill the gap.

Coach Vaselin Matic, arrogant & stupid? talk about arrogance, aren't some lebanese basketball fans arrogant & stupid also? I hope you're not one of them.

Talk about China being lucky as the host, weren't Lebanon also got lucky that Qatar was stripped of it's 5 players, boosting Lebanon's chances of making it 2 d quarterfinals? What if Qatar played w/ a complete line up? What was the chance of Lebanon beating qatar in the 2nd round of the elimination 2 salvage the last quarterfinals slot in it's group? 50-50%? In the 3 friendly games Qatar & Lebanon played prior 2 Wuhan, Lebanon beat Qatar twice, both being close games. Qatar however got back at Lebanon in d 3rd encounter winning by 15 pts. So had Qatar & Lebanon squared off in Wuhan, w/ Qatar playing w/ a full roster, it would have been a toss up. Had Lebanon lost, then d Lebanese would have been relegated to the battle for 9th place.

Imagine the humiliation!

snapper32
10-01-2011, 11:34 AM
china would have won it.i think china was more prep to face iran than jordan mentally they being beaten in the past and pride being the host :)