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View Full Version : Why the Philippines ranks low on FIBA's scale.



Eaglefan97
09-22-2011, 01:55 PM
I've noticed that there are a lot of questions and misconceptions about how the Philippines is ranked on the FIBA scale.

Some of us are claiming we should be ranked higher by virtue of our performance at the Stankovic Cup, the Asian Games and the Jones Cup. Or because we beat certain teams like Japan, Jordan, etc. But that's not how it works.

A lot of my fellow Filipinos who haven't followed the FIBA ASIA ranking system might not be familiar with how it works. Here's a step by step explanation.

*I've posted this elsewhere but it seems to deserve its own thread for the benefit of my fellow Filipino fans.

Currently, we're ranked 53rd (with 7.5 points) in the world.

Some Filipinos are wondering: Why are we ranked so low? How come there are teams on the rankings above us whom we know we can beat, and HAVE easily beaten in the past. (Like India and Kuwait, no disrespect meant to those teams intended.)

But here are some things to consider: Most of the tournaments where we have played well recently, don't count. The Asian Games, The Stankovic cup, the Champions Cup and the Jones Cup...they DO NOT count in the rankings.

That is why we slipped in the 90s even after we place 2nd, 4th, 3rd and 4th again all the Asian Games from 1990 to 2002. Because in the games which DID count, the Asian Basketball Confederation games, we were sending our B-teams (or even C and D-teams.)

And ranking is not based on just WHO we beat. But rather, how we finish in the tournament.

Now before we continue, it is important to remember that in 2005, because of stupid politics and infighting between the Philippine Basketball politicians and stakeholders, FIBA suspended us from international competition for a couple of years. As you will see, this will still affect our rankings even after this tournament.

====

For a brief explanation on FIBA rankings, and to better understand the system. CLICK HERE. (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/eve...howItWork.html)

So (after checking the link) essentially, the only games which will count are:

FIBA World Championships
Olympic Basketball Tournaments
FIBA Africa Championships
FIBA Americas Championships
FIBA Asia Championships
Eurobasket Championships
FIBA Oceania Championships

The points are computed over two Olympic cycles (8 years) which covers 4 FIBA ASIA tournaments. Our current ranking is based on our performance over the past four Asian Championships:

Each place, from gold to 18th has corresponding points.
When we don't qualify or are suspended. We get 0 points.
That is then multiplied with the "WEIGHT POINT" of the tournament
(Asian Championships is 0.3)

As described earlier, we currently have 7.5 points for a 53 ranking.
Here's the breakdown of our performance in the tournaments that counted:

2003- 15th
2005- Suspended
2007- (PBA squad) 9th (Chot Reyes squad)
2009- (Powerade Philippines) 8th (Yeng Guiao Squad)

Total points 4+0+10+11=25 x.03 =7.5

That makes up our score as seen HERE (http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/even/rank/p/openNodeIDs/999/selNodeID/999/rankMen.html).


*for the record, the 2003 team starred eventual PBA veterans Celino Cruz, Marc Pingris, Nelbert Omolon, Ricky Calimag and Willie Wilson. And IIRC, the 2001 team endured a suspension due to the BAP Jalasco-Puyat politics...

===========

Our NEXT ranking will be...

2005-Suspended
2007- 9th
2009- 8th
2011- ???

If we don't beat Chinese Taipei and finish 8th: We end up with 9.6 points (from 2005-2011) which is roughly good for a ranking of 50

If we beat Chinese Taipei and finish 4th: We end up with 10.8 points which would put us in the vicinity of 45 or 40.

If we somehow manage a bronze, that puts us at 15.3 points which may put us at 39 or 38.

It's tough because that "0" in 2005 will still count until AFTER the 2013 championships.

Because of that, even if we win it all (that means beating CT, IRAN AND CHINA) our point total will be 21.3 which is only good for around 35th.

But then with the Olympic stint, we'd have an additional 90 points (assuming we don't win a single game then) and we'd rank 20th, with 111.3 points.

===

That "0" in 2005 is even more painful when you realize that we had a very well prepared team of PBA all-stars in 2005 who had been together since 2003. We also had Jimmy Alapag and Asi Taulava in their prime, they had played well in their US tour against US NCAA I teams. But the suspension kept them from playing. In fact: If they had played and finished 9th. (modest estimate. I believe they could have finished higher.) Then we'd have a ranking of 46 today.

By the time they played again in 2007, they had gone back to their respective PBA teams and were out of sync. Plus the big men had lost a step or two.

===

So if we do well in 2011 AND in 2013, we'll be right back where we belong.
And that is why we need SMART GILAS to continue NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS with the next few games.

c_d
09-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Do we really need to have the same thread in two different sections of IBN?:confused: If it's for the benefit of Filipino fans, then the thread in the Philippine section is enough.

No wonder Filipino posters are sometimes branded as spammers here in IBN.

Eaglefan97
09-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Do we really need to have the same thread in two different sections of IBN?:confused: If it's for the benefit of Filipino fans, then the thread in the Philippine section is enough.

No wonder Filipino posters are sometimes branded as spammers here in IBN.

Apologies if you think I was spamming,
After posting it there, I began to think I posted it in the wrong space .

So I created a new thread instead, with a clearer title. (Even made some changes to the post)

I have now replaced the messages in the other sections, which now just referring people with questions about ranking to this thread.

Problem is too many of us are making erroneous predictions and questions when it comes to the rankings. So I wanted to make sure they see it. Some fans seem to be new to the FIBA Asia scene. Not a lot of the new posters go to the Philippines NT section. I wanted to make sure they read it.

I'm concerned that some of us tend to cry foul over the rankings (here and in other forums and comments sections) without trying to understand it first.

Q: Did you at least read the post? Was it clear enough? Let me know if I need to revise it.

Thanks

b3lowzro
09-22-2011, 03:38 PM
Do we really need to have the same thread in two different sections of IBN?:confused: If it's for the benefit of Filipino fans, then the thread in the Philippine section is enough.

No wonder Filipino posters are sometimes branded as spammers here in IBN.

nice to see you again sir c_d

Dtown
09-22-2011, 05:35 PM
But then with the Olympic stint, we'd have an additional 90 points (assuming we don't win a single game then) and we'd rank 20th, with 111.3 points.



A very good explanation except for this last bit.

If the Philippines made the Olympics, and if they finished 12th, they would have an additional 35 points.

12th place is worth 7 multiplied by 5 for the Olympics = 35.

So if the Philippines finished first in Asia this year (50x.3= 15), finished 12th in the olympics (35). Added to the 05,07,09 results you would get 56.3. Which while lower is still good for 22nd. :)

JGX
09-22-2011, 07:04 PM
FIBA rankings aren't even worth one thread.

durden_tyler
09-22-2011, 11:37 PM
^ Agree. It's just a freaking number.

potz05
09-23-2011, 12:24 AM
Are you freakin' serious? Making a thread about rankings?

Just let it be. Move on. It's just a number FCS!

Eaglefan97
09-23-2011, 01:21 AM
Well,

You really didn't have to click on this thread if you didn't think it was worth reading. I personally think it's just a number...but when you look at how many people are asking questions about our ranking, it might help them to understand it.

And when people back home are using our climb in FOOTBALL rankings to once again bash basketball, maybe a better understanding of the system might help.

I've seen questions like this around the forum:


why does the taiwanese have a higher ranking than us?
we're beating this team several times in a major international events, don't we?

by the way, it will be philippines by 15...

and some statements like this in response:


Don't worry when the next rankings come out, we should be ahead of Tiapei, due to Gilas perfomance in the Stankovic cup (4th place) and Asian games (5th) plus a likely semis stint in this years FIBA asia


So it's not for you guys but for them.


By the way, Dtown, thanks for pointing out my error.
(*Nahilo na ako sa kaka-math at that point. - Too much math.)

iuhl
09-23-2011, 03:02 AM
thanks a lot eaglefan97, it enlightens me so much...
dont worry about them, i think that you started a very useful thread... :)

raichu08
09-23-2011, 03:23 AM
It's just a number. But if that number helps to shut up some of its crab pundits (azkals bandwagoners, haters of B-Ball in general, noli de castro,manolo inigo etc..) Then it's worth it.

I find it interesting and informative but you don't have to post it several times.

Eaglefan97
09-23-2011, 04:20 AM
It's just a number. But if that number helps to shut up some of its crab pundits (azkals bandwagoners, haters of B-Ball in general, noli de castro,manolo inigo etc..) Then it's worth it.

I find it interesting and informative but you don't have to post it several times.

Agree. I've actually deleted all the others. :-)

Test
09-24-2011, 01:52 PM
FIBA rankings aren't even worth one thread.

53 Philippines

Agree. This is real nonsense. Czech Republic 56 and Sweden 76... Both would destroy Philippines by 50 points

oaba09
09-24-2011, 01:58 PM
The rankings system used in a lot of sporting organizations doesn't really reflect the true strength of the teams....

mavrick_h
09-24-2011, 09:21 PM
great thread indeed.
but i think you should make the summary of all teams before and after Philippines by at least 10 positions (20 ranks) to know the perfect position :)

After all RP made a great tournament and they will surely advance in the rankings.

mavrick_h
09-24-2011, 09:37 PM
53 Philippines

Agree. This is real nonsense. Czech Republic 56 and Sweden 76... Both would destroy Philippines by 50 points

i have to disagree :)

if you look at it the way you've said it then the whole scenario will become nonsense. Both European teams mentioned above can win even on China which they are ranked in the top 10 (if not mistaken).
However it's not how things work in the ranking system.
Every team takes a spot regarding on his level in his continent he's playing.
Sweden and Czech Republic they weren't present this year in your country to play the Eurobasket 2011 Finals. At the other end, China could regain the AC title tomorrow.

bsgermany
09-25-2011, 08:21 AM
53 Philippines

Agree. This is real nonsense. Czech Republic 56 and Sweden 76... Both would destroy Philippines by 50 points

Well, I don't think they would destroy the Philippines by 50 points or even half that margin. Nevertheless, the level of performance in this years Asian Champs was scaringly low compared to the earlier Euro Champs.

The FIBA ranking doesn't really reflect the real strenght and the position of a nation anyway. There are a fiew teams like Quatar or Kazakhstan ranked ahead of the Philippines, that the Philippines could surely handle. On the other hand, there are also teams behind in the ranking (Czech Rep., England, Sweden) or even unranked ones like Georgia, Finland, Belgium etc., that the Philippines would have problems with.
Who really cares about that ranking anyway??