PDA

View Full Version : Day 2, Group D: China 75-60 Philippines; UAE 91-53 Bahrain



sinobball
09-12-2011, 05:36 PM
* All time local (UTC/GMT +8)

China 75-60 Philippines 8pm Wuhan Stadium
Box: http://www.fibaasia.net/UserImages/GPDF01201191664514.PDF
CHN: Yi Jianlian 20p 17r, Wang Zhizhi 16p
PHI: Marcus Douthit 17p 10r, Chris Tiu 12p

United Arab Emirates 91-53 Bahrain 8PM Hongshan Stadium
Box: http://www.fibaasia.net/UserImages/GPDF0120119167548.PDF
UAE: Ibrahim Ahmad 17p 8r, Rashed Alzaabi 16p
BHR: Maitham Isa 15p, Ahmed Malallah 11p 6r

all_about
09-13-2011, 12:44 AM
Since I am a Filipino. It is natural for me to root and cheer for the Philippines. This game could go down the wire. Close one.

UAE will win over Bahrain.

GilG
09-13-2011, 02:09 AM
I think Toroman will gauge this game to see how good China is, that means Toroman will play possum and go all out when the games matter the most.

rrx_17
09-13-2011, 10:30 PM
Surely, this will be the game to watch in group d.... I hope philippines will win this one and have an upset...:rolleyes:

macan77
09-14-2011, 07:41 AM
philippines will just try to hang on with the chinese and will take it from there in the last minutes of the game..i don't see Philippines being in the driver seat in this game especially that our team is still stregthening our chemistry..but this game should make our team better (hopefully injury free), regardless of winning it or losing it..

apiSigbinz
09-15-2011, 02:15 PM
i beg not to predict on this one because my judgment is cloud with my biased towards my country.. heheheheh

UAE will win against Bahrain..

Cryotek
09-15-2011, 03:14 PM
I believe the Phils can finally win here in China against their hometeam!;)

mikepogi
09-15-2011, 03:20 PM
I believe the Phils can finally win here in China against their hometeam!;)

Interesting match-up

6'3 Liu Wei vs 5'9 Casio
6'9 Sun Yue vs 5'10 Tiu

I dont think we are not that undersized.:D

budz17
09-15-2011, 03:23 PM
Interesting match-up

6'3 Liu Wei vs 5'9 Casio
6'9 Sun Yue vs 5'10 Tiu

I dont think we are not that undersized.:D

+1:D

you forgot alapag in the 3 spot:p

mikepogi
09-15-2011, 03:26 PM
+1:D

you forgot alapag in the 3 spot:p

Yeah that's right

5'9 Alapag vs. 6'8 Zhu Fangyu

budz17
09-15-2011, 03:28 PM
Yeah that's right

5'9 Alapag vs. 6'8 Zhu Fangyu

for sure alapag will have a mismatch here.

they will have to double team him coz he could drive or shoot the three on this guy who will try to guard him.

Johnny A
09-15-2011, 03:48 PM
Philippines +10
UAE +10

gazara
09-15-2011, 03:50 PM
China +18
UAE +12

lebanese phoenix
09-15-2011, 04:41 PM
I think the chinese will have their way against the pinoys, no offense to our fellow pinoy posters,but i've seen you play UAE,score aside,i expected a better basketball level from your side,and it's gona take alot more than that to beat the complete chinese team.
I believe you have your chances against Iran,Lebanon and Korea but China will come on to you with height and skill and it's gona be a very tough game.
still i wont rule out a possible philipino upset but the way i see things, it'll be an easy game for china but definetly not a blowout.
i experct a 15- win or 10- smt like that.

macan77
09-15-2011, 05:44 PM
I think the chinese will have their way against the pinoys, no offense to our fellow pinoy posters,but i've seen you play UAE,score aside,i expected a better basketball level from your side,and it's gona take alot more than that to beat the complete chinese team.
I believe you have your chances against Iran,Lebanon and Korea but China will come on to you with height and skill and it's gona be a very tough game.
still i wont rule out a possible philipino upset but the way i see things, it'll be an easy game for china but definetly not a blowout.
i experct a 15- win or 10- smt like that.

hoping philippine by 4 points..

Azrael
09-15-2011, 06:07 PM
I think the chinese will have their way against the pinoys, no offense to our fellow pinoy posters,but i've seen you play UAE,score aside,i expected a better basketball level from your side,and it's gona take alot more than that to beat the complete chinese team.
I believe you have your chances against Iran,Lebanon and Korea but China will come on to you with height and skill and it's gona be a very tough game.
still i wont rule out a possible philipino upset but the way i see things, it'll be an easy game for china but definetly not a blowout.
i experct a 15- win or 10- smt like that.

yup i agree with you. If only Phil can limit their turnovers below 7 i think they can keep up with China and it will be a competitive game. But anything is possible (imagine Garnett saying that ) :)

eitra
09-15-2011, 06:44 PM
I think the chinese will have their way against the pinoys, no offense to our fellow pinoy posters,but i've seen you play UAE,score aside,i expected a better basketball level from your side,and it's gona take alot more than that to beat the complete chinese team.
I believe you have your chances against Iran,Lebanon and Korea but China will come on to you with height and skill and it's gona be a very tough game.
still i wont rule out a possible philipino upset but the way i see things, it'll be an easy game for china but definetly not a blowout.
i experct a 15- win or 10- smt like that.

Hoping Lassiter and Lutz will play now we can predict the game...

lapukman
09-15-2011, 07:05 PM
* All time local (UTC/GMT +8)

China vs. Philippines 8pm Wuhan Stadium

China
No. Given Name Family Name DOB Ht. Pos.
4 Jinhui Ding 27/10/1989 204
5 Wei Liu 15/01/1980 190
6 Bo Zhang 30/09/1990 198
7 Li Yi 07/11/1987 202
8 Fangyu Zhu 05/01/1983 201
9 Yue Sun 06/11/1985 205
10 Zhaoxu Zhang 18/11/1987 221
11 Jianlian Yi 27/10/1987 212
12 Shulong Yu 19/02/1990 185
13 Wei Su 28/07/1989 212
14 Zhizhi Wang 08/07/1979 214
15 Mugedar Xirelijiang 04/01/1991 191

Philippines
No. Given Name Family Name DOB Ht. Pos.
4 Mark Andy Barocca 25/04/1986 176
5 Pauliasi Taulava 02/03/1973 208
6 Joseph Evans Casio 01/09/1986 176
7 Jim Alapag 30/12/1977 176
8 Christopher John Tiu 15/07/1985 178
9 Japeth Paul Aguilar 25/01/1985 208
10 Marnel Baracael 14/04/1985 188
11 Marcus Douthit 15/04/1980 210
12 Kelly Williams 07/02/1982 199
13 Marcio Tsongo Lassiter 16/05/1987 188
14 Christopher Ryan Lutz 11/02/1985 190
15 Ranidel De Ocampo 08/12/1981 193

United Arab Emirates vs. Bahrain 8PM Hongshan Stadium

UAE
No. Given Name Family Name DOB Ht. Pos.
4 Jassim Haji 22/03/1981 183
5 Mohamed Al Braiki 21/12/1991 187
6 Ibrahim Ahmad 09/06/1979 180
7 Ibrahim Alsari 04/07/1980 180
8 Husain Ahmed 06/03/1989 180
9 Khalil Salem 25/08/1991 176
10 Rashid Alali 03/04/1980 189
11 Rashed Al Zaabi 19/10/1988 186
12 Qais Alshabebi 31/10/1991 192
13 Malalla Banihammad 18/06/1983 195
14 Ali Alhattawi 20/11/1979 200
15 Jasim Abdalla 24/11/1988 205

Bahrain
No. Given Name Family Name DOB Ht. Pos.
4 Mohamed Ali 17/03/1986
5 Husain Al Tawash 04/07/1986
6 Maitam Isa 23/09/1990
7 Bader Malabes 11/08/1987
8 Mohamed Khamis 29/01/1992
9 Mohamed Mari 09/08/1989
10 Hesham Sarhan 24/08/1992
11 Ebrahim Al Darazi 16/02/1973
12 Ahmed Akbar 22/02/1991
13 A Rahman Mubarak 14/10/1988
14 Mahdi Ashoor 24/12/1990
15 Ahmed Malallah 03/07/1973



In your Qatari lineup, you only posted 7 players. But now for Gilas, you included Marcio and Lutz.... Does it mean they are now cleared to play? That's great news if true!

wbszc
09-15-2011, 11:35 PM
No offense man, China team almost oversized Philly on every position. I mean, the rebounds and defense will be the key. Philly get a chance, but really not that much as China

RedMetal
09-15-2011, 11:37 PM
Moying Martelino, the Philippine Olympic Committee official designated to submit required documents for the SMART-Gilas Pilipinas national team participating in the ongoing FIBA Asia Championship, said on Thursday that there is still a chance for wingmen Chris Lutz and Marcio Lassiter to see action in the Olympic qualifying tournament.

“They’re not disqualified to play,” said Martelino, who once served as secretary-general of FIBA Asia. “They’re only not allowed to play until after they’ve submitted documents to prove that they’re Filipino.”

On Wednesday, FIBA Asia deputy secretary-general Hagop Khajirian raised questions about the eligibility of the two Filipino-American players. Minutes before the Philippine team’s opening match against the United Arab Emirates the next day, SMART-Gilas were still unable to get clearance for the two stalwarts, forcing the squad to play with just ten men.

The contention over the eligibility of Lassiter and Lutz came as a surprise to the team and to the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas, the country’s national basketball federation.

Martelino said that there has been a misunderstanding on the part of FIBA Asia about the status of the two players.

“I think the confusion lies on the Article 321 of FIBA, which refers to players who were naturalized as in the case of Marcus Douthit,” said Martelino. “But Lassiter and Lutz are natural-born Filipinos and we will present this stand to FIBA Asia.”

“We will meet with Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director Sonny Barrios [on Friday] and send to FIBA Asia our position,” he added. SMART-Gilas hopes to have the two players available when they face Asian powerhouse China in the second day of competition.

Filed under: 2011 fiba asia championship, chris lutz, marcio lassiter, smart gilas:cool:

eliooo93
09-16-2011, 12:19 AM
China by 15
Bahrain by 1.

F-15Eagle
09-16-2011, 01:59 AM
china will win <but id be happy to be wrong hehe> they are not only big but they are more mobile now and with lethal outside shooting too..
for the philippines to score an upset we must have less than 10 turnover and an amazing 15/20 3-pt shooting fg percentage <improbable but not impossible>:)

kurtsabug
09-16-2011, 02:08 AM
China 12-
UAE 8-

Nerraw0384
09-16-2011, 02:14 AM
China 12-
UAE 8-

Black September! :p

Achilles: (Sword pointing at the enemy) PILIPINAS, take it. It's yours. (Scene from Troy :D:D:D)

Im bias so I would say.

PHL - 10
Bahrain - 5

:p

potz05
09-16-2011, 03:05 AM
Black September! :p

Achilles: (Sword pointing at the enemy) PILIPINAS, take it. It's yours. (Scene from Troy :D:D:D)

Im bias so I would say.

PHL - 10
Bahrain - 5

:p

Bias on Bahrain because of Bader Malabes? :p

Silent Killer
09-16-2011, 06:13 AM
Bader will have a good tournament. ;)

indication came last night :D

No PBA d-league team will offer bader ;) Bader's salary in bahrain is i think huge.

seigle42
09-16-2011, 06:18 AM
this game is showdown! Asian rivalry is back!

Philippines vs. China

tough game night!

AlYuson
09-16-2011, 06:27 AM
No doubt philippines is the underdog going up against the formidable host china. Losing against the chinese squad in a comfortable margin is acceptable than seeing our smaller nationals being humiliated once again by a huge margin.

budz17
09-16-2011, 06:34 AM
No offense man, China team almost oversized Philly on every position. I mean, the rebounds and defense will be the key. Philly get a chance, but really not that much as China

its okay, if I were a neutral observer, I would probably pick china myself.

but what I saw last night, china just took too many shots from 3. if we can hold our own against wang zhizhi and yi jianlian and our 3s are falling, we may have a chance.

If I was a betting man, I would take +15 china but nothing more. if china falls in love shooting 3s, they may be in for surprise

durden_tyler
09-16-2011, 06:53 AM
If we can make it a close affair, there's a big chance that we steal this one. That is a very big IF however.

AlYuson
09-16-2011, 07:15 AM
its okay, if I were a neutral observer, I would probably pick china myself.

but what I saw last night, china just took too many shots from 3. if we can hold our own against wang zhizhi and yi jianlian and our 3s are falling, we may have a chance.

If I was a betting man, I would take +15 china but nothing more. if china falls in love shooting 3s, they may be in for surprise

Another perception about China only in their first game..just remember Iran in jones cup during their 1st game loss against smart gilas, Iranians adjusted well and bounced back with vengeance when they faced the filipinos again in semifinals, we know the outcome.

That guy wbszc is exactly right. China has a size advantage in every position, they can afford to assign 6'9" Sun Yue to guard our diminutive pointguards like Jimmy Alapag and Mark Barroca, just like what they did in 1998 Asian Games when 6'6" Sun Jun guarded 5'8" Johnny Abarrientos and in 2002 Asian Games, chinese forward-center 6'9" Gong Xiaobin shadowed 6'2" fil-am shooting guard Noy Castillo at the 1st half.

Eaglefan97
09-16-2011, 07:38 AM
I think China gets this one.
But I'm giving UAE the win over Bahrain.

budz17
09-16-2011, 08:08 AM
I think China gets this one.
But I'm giving UAE the win over Bahrain.

no offense to bahrain, but they look like a barangay team in this tournament.

Romia
09-16-2011, 08:20 AM
objective and enthusiastic to basketball majority philipino fan here.
good impression
and hope enjoy a good night and esp wounderful match between us

go ,Gilas and go China NT
No matter the result ,just a good performance both side

interxavierxxx
09-16-2011, 09:23 AM
objective and enthusiastic to basketball majority philipino fan here.
good impression
and hope enjoy a good night and esp wounderful match between us

go ,Gilas and go China NT
No matter the result ,just a good performance both side

I feel the same way you do. I don't really care if we win or not as it's only a preliminary match-up. I care about playing as hard as we can to avoid a rout or any form of embarrassing losses.

Pandesal
09-16-2011, 09:24 AM
Being a basketball fan, all I want is a game where both teams give their best and show an amazing brand of basketball. Also wishing that nobody gets injured and that the refs wont be the story of the game. Being a Filipino though, I'm calling for a win. Not being arrogant just optimistic.

Living in UAE for many years, I'll be cheering UAE on despite of Malabes.

F-15Eagle
09-16-2011, 09:43 AM
objective and enthusiastic to basketball majority philipino fan here.
good impression
and hope enjoy a good night and esp wounderful match between us

go ,Gilas and go China NT
No matter the result ,just a good performance both side

Yeah lets just enjoy the game..in its purest form..hope no blowout though

kerouac82
09-16-2011, 09:46 AM
I'll be cheering for UAE because of Malabes :p

RedMetal
09-16-2011, 09:55 AM
It's going to be a buzzer beater!:cool:

kurtsabug
09-16-2011, 09:57 AM
Black September! :p

Achilles: (Sword pointing at the enemy) PILIPINAS, take it. It's yours. (Scene from Troy :D:D:D)

Im bias so I would say.

PHL - 10
Bahrain - 5

:p

iran did this to us,its like they gauge us.come round 2, i say its a sweep for us :D

Silent Killer
09-16-2011, 09:59 AM
I'll be cheering for UAE because of Malabes :p

THE star of the team ;) :D

interxavierxxx
09-16-2011, 11:19 AM
Why is China still fielding Liu Wei? Do they have a shortage of point guards or something?

lebanese phoenix
09-16-2011, 11:26 AM
Why is China still fielding Liu Wei? Do they have a shortage of point guards or something?

according to what some chinese posters told me few weeks ago, yes, they do have a shortage of PGs,none of their youngsters can really compare to Wei,although i must say that the latter is still very good, in his prime i might add:)

pcder
09-16-2011, 11:31 AM
according to what some chinese posters told me few weeks ago, yes, they do have a shortage of PGs,none of their youngsters can really compare to Wei,although i must say that the latter is still very good, in his prime i might add:)
Maybe Guo Ailun would play instead of Liu Wei next year~

interxavierxxx
09-16-2011, 11:36 AM
What about Cheng Jinghua? He did pretty well in the 2006 WC despite being 17-years-old only during that time.

Romia
09-16-2011, 11:45 AM
maybe the two young guard Xrelyjian and Yu Shu Long will be known after this match between CHN and Gilas by fans of here

Mojado
09-16-2011, 12:09 PM
nice block by Douthit!
but why a man-2-man D? Causes a lot of fouls and China is perfect at the line.
Williams is messing it up with his fouls.

macan77
09-16-2011, 12:25 PM
we can see really we need that 2 spot..we need lutz and lassiter..damned

behzadir
09-16-2011, 12:27 PM
nice block by Douthit!
but why a man-2-man D? Causes a lot of fouls and China is perfect at the line.
Williams is messing it up with his fouls.

Cuz Rajko is a pure Genius!!

The foul trouble and China being in the bonus made Philippines out of rhythm for like 6 mins.

jesronne
09-16-2011, 12:28 PM
i hope this will not be a massacre!

Mojado
09-16-2011, 12:35 PM
Cuz Rajko is a pure Genius!!

The foul trouble and China being in the bonus made Philippines out of rhythm for like 6 mins.

A quick analysis what's the problem:

- Man to Man Defense in international play with a team that lacks height. Foul shots are killing Pinas.
- Only one system called "horns" on top -> And not a new variant of it, no the old horns we are playing in our amateur league!!
- No passing the ball but dribbling around the perimeter. Look to Argentina how to pass quicker.
- No inside game thanks to guards that are probably shoot-first guards in their league but they lack the passing skills.
- Douthit is frustrated and not an athlete to power his way to the basket. A classical center that needs the ball inside.

macan77
09-16-2011, 12:38 PM
A quick analysis what's the problem:

- Man to Man Defense in international play with a team that lacks height. Foul shots are killing Pinas.
- Only one system called "horns" on top -> And not a new variant of it, no the old horns we are playing in our amateur league!!
- No passing the ball but dribbling around the perimeter. Look to Argentina how to pass quicker.
- No inside game thanks to guards that are probably shoot-first guards in their league but they lack the passing skills.
- Douthit is frustrated and not an athlete to power his way to the basket. A classical center that needs the ball inside.

its the turnovers and getting those rebounds..

Mojado
09-16-2011, 12:47 PM
its the turnovers and getting those rebounds..

turnovers are a result of a one-dimensional offensive situation which is created by playing one system and not even playing it right.
Douthit dunked a minute ago. That was the first time your guards went inside for a pick n roll.

macan77
09-16-2011, 12:51 PM
turnovers are a result of a one-dimensional offensive situation which is created by playing one system and not even playing it right.
Douthit dunked a minute ago. That was the first time your guards went inside for a pick n roll.

where can you find a point guarding a shooting guard..the turnovers were created because of those mismatches.

kaiziken_pinas
09-16-2011, 12:54 PM
where can you find a point guarding a shooting guard..the turnovers were created because of those mismatches.

and we don't have a pure shooting guard right now!!! (lutz and lassiter)

Azrael
09-16-2011, 12:55 PM
What a mismatch. Like what i pointed out yesterday, if only phil limit their turnovers it would be interesting. Expect the deficit to increase if they cant control the ball

Eaglefan97
09-16-2011, 12:58 PM
turnovers are a result of a one-dimensional offensive situation which is created by playing one system and not even playing it right.
Douthit dunked a minute ago. That was the first time your guards went inside for a pick n roll.

A fair assessment. But just to clarify, these guys are normally good passers in their own league and in other international games where Philippines relies on assists.

China's defense, and the Filipinos' own disarray, has taken them out of their system.

When China started picking off their passes with their long arms, and causing turnovers, the players started hesitating to pass.

That's why Coach Toroman also screamed at them telling them to execute. They look lost. Even the local commentator here noticed that Philippines is having trouble executing the crisp passing game that has won them so many tough games in recent tournaments.

AlYuson
09-16-2011, 01:03 PM
3 years of preparation under coach toroman..but blaming him is not the right perspective at this point. How could our smaller pinoys play decent basketball when we don't have the talent to offset china's height advantage in every position. We have no players who could create shots to score over taller and bigger guards nor a strong slasher to break the defensive wall of these imposing chinese giants.

Dr. T
09-16-2011, 01:06 PM
I woke up early in the USA to watch this game but VERY disappointed in the performance of the Phillipines. They don't match up well with China. Neither team has a solid point guard and the 3-point shooting is erratic.

Mojado
09-16-2011, 01:14 PM
3 years of preparation under coach toroman..but blaming him is not the right perspective at this point. How could our smaller pinoys play decent basketball when we don't have the talent to offset china's height advantage in every position. We have no players who could create shots to score over taller and bigger guards nor a strong slasher to break the defensive wall of these imposing chinese giants.

lets blame height then. not playing horns that even I know how to defend. lets blame china's physical superiority, since its easier.;)
lets blame the lack of a shooting guard but your point guards arent better.

BTW, I remember you had a couple of guys that are between 6-6 and 6-9 in your leagues. Jared Dillinger from Hawaii then this German guy Joachim Thoss and so on...all I see are undersized players now on the court. Aguilar? :confused:

And heck, if I have such tiny guards, make sure they can jump out of the building. None of these players looks like he can dunk or leap high.

...and while I'm writing down my frustration (yes I'm for the underdog),
its only -15...

Dr. T
09-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Is is 55-41? Or 55-40? The referees can't get the score right. Phil needs all the points they can get.

AlYuson
09-16-2011, 01:27 PM
lets blame height then. not playing horns that even I know how to defend. lets blame china's physical superiority, since its easier.;)
lets blame the lack of a shooting guard but your point guards arent better.

BTW, I remember you had a couple of guys that are between 6-6 and 6-9 in your leagues. Jared Dillinger from Hawaii then this German guy Joachim Thoss and so on...all I see are undersized players now on the court. Aguilar? :confused:

And heck, if I have such tiny guards, make sure they can jump out of the building. None of these players looks like he can dunk or leap high.

...and while I'm writing down my frustration (yes I'm for the underdog),
its only -15...

Jared Dillinger and Sonny Thoss are no help either. Jimmy Alapag inspite of his diminutive size can leap high in the PBA when being guarded by small guys like him. He's already aging besides i think alapag could't believe he was being guarded by a pole almost as quick as him with lateral movement who could follow his every steps on the floor.

bsgermany
09-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Putting the entire blame on the obvious lack of height again is a little too cheap. It's not only the poor rebounding to blame - the guards really don't look to superiour either.
China is controling the game and only doing what it takes to safely bring this game home.

Mojado
09-16-2011, 01:32 PM
Jared Dillinger and Sonny Thoss are no help either. Jimmy Alapag inspite of his diminutive size can leap high in the PBA when being guarded by small guys like him. He's already aging besides i think alapag could't believe he was being guarded by a pole almost as quick as him with lateral movement who could follow his every steps on the floor.

Ive seen Dillinger in Hawaii back then. He is mobile yet a bit of a streaky shooter. But when watching this game now, I see not a single reason why he would not fit in.

Ever heard of faking the ball instead of trying directly to shoot? Guards arent used to be covered by such taller guards. You need to train in Serbia or Croatia to be prepared.

dose
09-16-2011, 01:34 PM
lets blame height then. not playing horns that even I know how to defend. lets blame china's physical superiority, since its easier.;)
lets blame the lack of a shooting guard but your point guards arent better.

BTW, I remember you had a couple of guys that are between 6-6 and 6-9 in your leagues. Jared Dillinger from Hawaii then this German guy Joachim Thoss and so on...all I see are undersized players now on the court. Aguilar? :confused:

And heck, if I have such tiny guards, make sure they can jump out of the building. None of these players looks like he can dunk or leap high.

...and while I'm writing down my frustration (yes I'm for the underdog),
its only -15...

For a team with "tiny guards" who can't jump and "very predictable plays" that just about anyone can defend, they must be doing pretty well being down by just less than 20.

JGX
09-16-2011, 01:39 PM
If I was a betting man, I would take +15 china

You should have been a betting man!

Mojado
09-16-2011, 01:43 PM
For a team with "tiny guards" who can't jump and "very predictable plays" that just about anyone can defend, they must be doing pretty well being down by just less than 20.

My view of things:
- Get a few of those taller players in your leagues that usually play the 4 or 5 and teach them how to play the 3 or 2 for international play.
- If you want to succeed on a international level, learn how to play zone and learn different offensive sets. Dont know why Toroman is not doing it. Also implement it into your leagues, as I bet the PBA has more NBA-like rules.

China might be a giant in Asia but in the Olympics or in the Olympic qualifier, they will be having trouble. And they wont have these refs there as well.

macan77
09-16-2011, 01:48 PM
lets blame height then. not playing horns that even I know how to defend. lets blame china's physical superiority, since its easier.;)
lets blame the lack of a shooting guard but your point guards arent better.

BTW, I remember you had a couple of guys that are between 6-6 and 6-9 in your leagues. Jared Dillinger from Hawaii then this German guy Joachim Thoss and so on...all I see are undersized players now on the court. Aguilar? :confused:

And heck, if I have such tiny guards, make sure they can jump out of the building. None of these players looks like he can dunk or leap high.

...and while I'm writing down my frustration (yes I'm for the underdog),
its only -15...

we lost the game in the 2nd quarter where they expoit our guards, then Yi and Wang started to play their game..anyway, i kinda expected those turnovers in this preliminaries due to non-familiarity yet with williams, alapag and ocampo to the system..i hate when i see baroca and casio doing those turnovers though..

ryanzerous
09-16-2011, 01:50 PM
congrats to china. they are big and athletic and good basketball players. its fun to watch them play! as for my Philippines hope to see them improve next game. good luck to both teams.

AlYuson
09-16-2011, 01:50 PM
Ive seen Dillinger in Hawaii back then. He is mobile yet a bit of a streaky shooter. But when watching this game now, I see not a single reason why he would not fit in.

Ever heard of faking the ball instead of trying directly to shoot? Guards arent used to be covered by such taller guards. You need to train in Serbia or Croatia to be prepared.

I can assure you head and shoulder fakes are norms to filipino players but i really don't think that technique would be effective to a nervous wrecker smaller pinoys who just like what you said dont have the high-vertical leap to shoot over taller guards. Chinese poles would just raise their arms in front of our very small guards and they won't bite our head fakes..adding to the fact that we don't have a kangaroo-like jumper to shoot over these chinese mastodons.

I rest this case with you..;)

dose
09-16-2011, 01:50 PM
My view of things:
- Get a few of those taller players in your leagues that usually play the 4 or 5 and teach them how to play the 3 or 2 for international play.
- If you want to succeed on a international level, learn how to play zone and learn different offensive sets. Dont know why Toroman is not doing it. Also implement it into your leagues, as I bet the PBA has more NBA-like rules.

China might be a giant in Asia but in the Olympics or in the Olympic qualifier, they will be having trouble. And they wont have these refs there as well.

So you are basically saying that the philippine team as it is, has practically no chance in winning this tournament?

macan77
09-16-2011, 01:50 PM
My view of things:
- Get a few of those taller players in your leagues that usually play the 4 or 5 and teach them how to play the 3 or 2 for international play.
- If you want to succeed on a international level, learn how to play zone and learn different offensive sets. Dont know why Toroman is not doing it. Also implement it into your leagues, as I bet the PBA has more NBA-like rules.

China might be a giant in Asia but in the Olympics or in the Olympic qualifier, they will be having trouble. And they wont have these refs there as well.


Toroman has been practicing the zone defense..maybe he has other things in mind..it was glaring from the start that china is big and still man to man defense..so i don't know also why..anyway, i haven't seen much of this team really playing zone but just once in a while..

DRRC
09-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Good win by China they played well

I am disappointed but still optimistic Toro has a few more things up his sleeve
As you saw the new players are still adapting to the system hence easier plays were being executed and the missing 2 in the rotation where there would be at least one of them in the court was also felt. whoever was playing 2 did not know where his position was so many turnovers from that too

no zone now means not being scouted
I just did not like how Toro matched up
He should adjust and make his own mismatches
asi marcus japeth tiu and casio would have been good for rebs and fastbreaks to bring the gap closer
Hope they do better next game

Mojado
09-16-2011, 01:59 PM
So you are basically saying that the philippine team as it is, has practically no chance in winning this tournament?

I see you didnt get my point the second time. :confused:

You may have the wrong coach in charge, that's all I'm saying. I might have picked other players and would have played a different system.

Lets see how far you can go in this tournament. Maybe Toroman changes his strategy. Hope so.

b3lowzro
09-16-2011, 02:10 PM
Great scouting by Bob Donewald and his crew to give credit to China. Our guards were a bit nervous in this game, that was the big difference i guess. JV and Mark have these nerves of steel whenever they would meet other countries. And their big men had more to offer especially Yi.

bright spots to the Philippines were Kelly Williams Chris Tiu & Mac Baracael, steady guys who gives us some scoring and defensive chances.

Eaglefan97
09-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Great scouting by Bob Donewald and his crew to give credit to China. Our guards were a bit nervous in this game, that was the big difference i guess. JV and Mark have these nerves of steel whenever they would meet other countries. And their big men had more to offer especially Yi.

bright spots to the Philippines were Kelly Williams Chris Tiu & Mac Baracael, steady guys who gives us some scoring and defensive chances.

I thought Chris Tiu played great. He was the only one fighting consistently.

Mojado's points are fair because he has never seen Alapag, Casio and Barroca play outside of this tournament. (He should have seen the team play in the Champions Cup and the Jones Cup.) But the thing to remember is they are filling in for the two guards who were suspended. Hence, they were playing out of position and looked lost at times.

Now, to Mohado... Those guys are there because everything you asked of them, they can do. They can shoot, pass and are very quick. But they all choked at the same time. (Weird because two of those guys are known clutch players) They DID train in Serbia and other such countries.

One thing to note, this is the FIRST time they are facing China throughout their existence. They were visibly intimidated. No excuse. China was better, taller and executed well.

Today, Chris Tiu showed his true value to the team. He may not always be the big scorer but he never quits. And he has a lot of guts. He just doesn't score unless needed.

And Mojado, the Philippines has a lot of players with size and skill but they aren't always available. Sadly, despite our pleas, NT is not priority of players in the Philippines. I still think Toroman is a great coach. (He turned Iran around remember?) I've watched this team play against Iran, Qatar, Lebanon, Jordan and the rest and they are capable of playing against bigger players. But somehow, the team game that had Jones Cup teams describing their teamwork as "BEAUTIFUL" disappeared tonight. China shut them down.

Congrats China!

Bobbyd
09-16-2011, 03:32 PM
It was a sad game to see. China basically steamrolled the Philippines and the game was over by early in the second quarter. There are a couple of adjustments the Philippines can make but I am not sure if it will make a difference. I don't know why the coach wouldn't play Asi and Douthit both at the same time. The Philippines were getting killed on the boards and needed all the big bodies they could muster against China.
Also, a little zone might have helped from time to time. You are too small to match up man to man for 40 minutes.

lebanese phoenix
09-16-2011, 04:10 PM
I think the chinese will have their way against the pinoys, no offense to our fellow pinoy posters,but i've seen you play UAE,score aside,i expected a better basketball level from your side,and it's gona take alot more than that to beat the complete chinese team.
I believe you have your chances against Iran,Lebanon and Korea but China will come on to you with height and skill and it's gona be a very tough game.
still i wont rule out a possible philipino upset but the way i see things, it'll be an easy game for china but definetly not a blowout.
i experct a 15- win or 10- smt like that.

I was right, the chinese are just too good this ABC version, they play your game pinoys, just that they are taller and better shooters,they also have a huge inside game,and that proved to be a big plus.
They are fast,skilled inside,good shooters,playing on their homecourt, i think that China is the team to beat this championship.
still good fight by the pinoys, had you only applied the zone better, hopefully with the coming games you'll become better.
Forget about this loss and focus on the upcoming Jordan,Japan games,tommorow is a rest day for you,good chance to lick your wounds and prepare for the second round.

CHINA TEAM
09-16-2011, 05:37 PM
http://i1.hoopchina.com.cn/u/1109/16/122/182122/7a7617a7.gif

http://i1.hoopchina.com.cn/blogfile/201109/17/131619005744277.gif

dose
09-16-2011, 10:17 PM
I see you didnt get my point the second time. :confused:

You may have the wrong coach in charge, that's all I'm saying. I might have picked other players and would have played a different system.

Lets see how far you can go in this tournament. Maybe Toroman changes his strategy. Hope so.

Well, my point is how can you say that we have the wrong coach, players and system when it's only our second game. You make it sound like our team is very bad (with tiny guards and predictable set play), yet powerhouse china won by only 15 points even with a great game from Yi.

Btw, we had a team with Dillinger and Thoss, just like what you're suggesting. And guess what, they only finished 9th.

PostMaster
09-17-2011, 02:30 AM
I thought Chris Tiu played great. He was the only one fighting consistently.

Mojado's points are fair because he has never seen Alapag, Casio and Barroca play outside of this tournament. (He should have seen the team play in the Champions Cup and the Jones Cup.) But the thing to remember is they are filling in for the two guards who were suspended. Hence, they were playing out of position and looked lost at times.

Now, to Mohado... Those guys are there because everything you asked of them, they can do. They can shoot, pass and are very quick. But they all choked at the same time. (Weird because two of those guys are known clutch players) They DID train in Serbia and other such countries.

One thing to note, this is the FIRST time they are facing China throughout their existence. They were visibly intimidated. No excuse. China was better, taller and executed well.

Today, Chris Tiu showed his true value to the team. He may not always be the big scorer but he never quits. And he has a lot of guts. He just doesn't score unless needed.

And Mojado, the Philippines has a lot of players with size and skill but they aren't always available. Sadly, despite our pleas, NT is not priority of players in the Philippines. I still think Toroman is a great coach. (He turned Iran around remember?) I've watched this team play against Iran, Qatar, Lebanon, Jordan and the rest and they are capable of playing against bigger players. But somehow, the team game that had Jones Cup teams describing their teamwork as "BEAUTIFUL" disappeared tonight. China shut them down.

Congrats China!


That's what i thought about CT. Played his hearts out. Casio was kinda Nervous while Barroca was turn over prone. SG really misses the services of Lassiter and Lutz. It's unfortunate for them not to play. Even if they play Japeth, he will get banged, outplayed by Yi and Wang. I doubt if they can reach the semis with this line up.

seigle42
09-17-2011, 02:59 AM
i'm really miss the game bet. philippines vs. china. for the first time both "a" team they play since 2002 asian games

seigle42
09-17-2011, 05:28 AM
I've a comments bet. philippines and china. philippines didn't box-out in whole game , more mistook turnovers and lack in shooting.

2log
09-18-2011, 10:45 PM
lets blame height then. not playing horns that even I know how to defend. lets blame china's physical superiority, since its easier.;)
lets blame the lack of a shooting guard but your point guards arent better.

BTW, I remember you had a couple of guys that are between 6-6 and 6-9 in your leagues. Jared Dillinger from Hawaii then this German guy Joachim Thoss and so on...all I see are undersized players now on the court. Aguilar? :confused:

And heck, if I have such tiny guards, make sure they can jump out of the building. None of these players looks like he can dunk or leap high.

...and while I'm writing down my frustration (yes I'm for the underdog),
its only -15...

Impressive, you know a lot about our players. And thanks for your concerns. If talent was the gauge, we've got a LOT more but the problem is that they're all @ the pro league (PBA). And they aren't exactly very supportive of our international campaigns. We are lucky to have 4 pros reinforcing the team this year (the PBA season has just finished), and they joined the team post-season with only 3 tuneup games with the team before flying out to Wuhan. Just to emphasize the depth of talent we aren't able to utilize, the 3 pro reinforcements came from only one team, TNT with the other from a sister team, who's mother company is sponsoring our current national team. The player you mentioned Jared Dillinger, belongs to the TNT team as well but is not even getting decent playing time. While rival PBA teams refused to lend out players at all.

@ the pros we've got 6'9" guys who can bang bodies inside but also shoot 3's consistently, 6'7" versatile and athletic big men who can play multiple positions, 6'3 - 6'5" shooting guards and athletic point guards, penetrators and shot makers. Most of them have represented the Philippines in international competitions at some point but mostly with the preparation comparable to that of an all-star exhibition game. The guys we have right now on the team were greenhorns and unknowns before their National Team stint. But its this team that has been most successful in a very long time. Toroman has turned a bunch of kids into contenders. He really didn't get a free hand into getting the most talented and battle tested players he had in mind. And although I don't usually agree with his tactics at times, he's the coach and he's there for a reason. He knows best.

And for the China game, the size advantage was much more evident because both our wingmen (sg-sf @ 6'3"), were suspended (the eve of the tournament due to technicallity). These two left a big void as they are the all around hustle guys for the team and are used to guarding the taller wing men of other countries. We have another 6'4" guard (a better shooter/scorer, but weaker defender than Lutz and Lassiter) on the reserve list with the team, and a streak shooting 6'3" guard from the pros ready to fly in but was not allowed to replace the suspended players as the lineup was already submitted. The ones left on the lineup were all bellow 6ft. That put the team in a bind, where a specific system is in place and everybody has a role to fill.