PDA

View Full Version : [Rd Day 1] Game F/1 Georgia - FYR of Macedonia



Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 11:39 AM
8-Sep-2011
15:30 (GMT+3)
Vilnius (Siemens) Arena

PieR
09-08-2011, 11:45 AM
Zaza Pachulia is out because of injury, so I see Macedonia more close to the victory...

Billy Bounce
09-08-2011, 12:04 PM
If Macedonia will win, they should build a horse statue of McCalebb next to Alexander The Great :D

Perseus
09-08-2011, 12:07 PM
definetely FYROM

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 12:10 PM
If Macedonia will win, they should build a horse statue of McCalebb next to Alexander The Great :D
Hahahah good one :DD
I hope Macedonia will win and therefore will go in the 1/4 finals. But you never know what Georgia can offer.

klakis
09-08-2011, 01:03 PM
If Macedonia will win, they should build a horse statue of McCalebb next to Alexander The Great :D

Good idea !!!!
specially since neither Alexandros or Mccaleb has anything to do with those slavs from the larger area of macedonia.

By the way the worst game ever so far!!!

miriam159
09-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Found a site to watch the game (because I'm at work and can't watch television :p)

www.streambeam.org (http://www.streambeam.org)

Hope I can help someone with this!

Liha
09-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Macedonia all the way! My new favourite team (after Finland) ;)!

TomUSLty
09-08-2011, 01:28 PM
One of the worst games of basketball I have ever seen.

It's like some kind of training session. They aren't even trying that hard.

Georgia were trying a whole bunch of alley-oops at the start, Macedonia are missing 3s...

Horrible.

Macedonia looks like they are gonna win this.

Liha
09-08-2011, 02:11 PM
So how about that statue for McCaled then?

Also Finland wants to send some flowers to Pero Antic for helping them qualify :P.

Gonzaka
09-08-2011, 02:22 PM
What an awful game. It's difficult to watch more turnovers. Anyway, it was exciting and McCalebb is a TOP player.

Congrats, macedonians!

Picek
09-08-2011, 02:23 PM
flash news from Skopje, Macedonia
fans are demolishing the new statue of Alexander and want a new statue of Boško Mekajlebovski to be put there..

Guard
09-08-2011, 02:24 PM
What an awful game. It's difficult to watch more turnovers. Anyway, it was exciting and McCalebb is a TOP player.

Congrats, macedonians!

Lol what a joke player GranCa has with this Haynes. Copy of Tauren Green nothing more. terrible decisions and awful jumper..

Liha
09-08-2011, 02:25 PM
Based on this game of how Georgia played. I think Finland is also going to beat them if Georgia can't get their best player back.

Dtown
09-08-2011, 02:27 PM
So fyr of Macedonia is through to the knockout stage...I don't think anyone had that coming into the tournament.

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 02:28 PM
MAKEDONIJAAAA ALEEEEEEE...Congrats to all Macedonians for the 20 years of independence and this win is the best present for us! What a game, my hands are shaking while I'm writing now :D

See you in 1/4 finals in Kaunas.

Grinder
09-08-2011, 02:29 PM
flash news from Skopje, Macedonia
fans are demolishing the new statue of Alexander and want a new statue of Boško Mekajlebovski to be put there..


:D




Bo McCalebb carried Macedonia on his back for this win. Antic almost chucked them to a loss. Bo's gotta be the fastest player in Europe. I'm sure he'll get some big NBA offers after this coming season.

Macedonian posters - Is McCalebb is superstar in Macedonia?

buzz
09-08-2011, 02:29 PM
awful match but what do you expect of a competition with 24 competitors...

it is not FYROM'S(or georgia's) fault,it is fiba's fault

Gonzaka
09-08-2011, 02:30 PM
Lol what a joke player GranCa has with this Haynes. Copy of Tauren Green nothing more. terrible decisions and awful jumper..Haynes was signed as an spectacular player. Today (first time I see him and Georgia in this Eurobasket), I didn't see nothing in him...

BTW, Guard. Your country location is for supporting the Sheikh of Málaga CF?:D

[Sorry for the Offtopic]

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 02:33 PM
awful match but what do you expect of a competition with 24 competitors...

it is not FYROM'S(or georgia's) fault,it is fiba's fault
Guys, you lost from Macedonia by 14 points. Please do not write something that you are contradicting yourself. It just looks funny

Gonzaka
09-08-2011, 02:35 PM
Let's see: 9 teams were qualified after FIBA decision and additional QR.

Only Georgia and Finland continue on Eurobasket.

buzz
09-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Guys, you lost from Macedonia by 14 points. Please do not write something that you are contradicting yourself. It just looks funny


well that doesn't mean you are a better team..it is just means that fyrom beat greece once...(and that someone can see a good american basketball player among your team)

Dato
09-08-2011, 02:44 PM
Congrats to Macedonia.
Thanks to Georgia. Without injured 2 players of starting five, we maneged to fight till the end. Players are young and such expirience with be valuable for next EURO.

Raze Lupin
09-08-2011, 02:46 PM
Here is an interesting article on FIBA Eurobasket about FYROM:

http://www.eurobasket2011.com/en/coid_05qwN4OrGasXrK9WwU2dQ0.articleMode_on.html


Anyone taking F.Y.R. of Macedonia lightly or dismissing their chances of EuroBasket success could be in for a seriously rude awakening.
We all know when it comes to F.Y.R. of Macedonia there is an elephant in the room -a huge and obvious issue which isn't discussed aloud very often. Well, let me tackle it head on.
The simple truth is, they aren't a trendy, established and (dare I even say) a ‘fashionable' basketball nation who has the same kind of pulling power outside their own borders as a host of other teams at EuroBasket 2011.
They don't have NBA superstars. They don't even have a genuine array of top European stars for that matter. They don't have a big name coach. They aren't chased by the wider media pack.
Consequently, F.Y.R. of Macedonia rarely receive the kind of credit and wider recognition their accomplishments deserve. And, believe me, as far as their efforts so far are concerned, they are due a bucket load of praise - and some.
Group C may not have been viewed as one of the strongest around but the bare facts are there for everyone to see. Two teams expected to do relatively well, in Montenegro and Croatia, are now back home while F.Y.R. of Macedonia wrapped up their five games in Alytus with four wins and an overtime loss (when they were without the influential Todor Gechevski).
For everything Tony Parker has done for France so far, you had better believe that during Round 1, Pero Antic has done exactly the same for his team, albeit in a different way.
I have little doubt reading such a line may cause surprise and even a degree of hilarity in some quarters but for someone who has absorbed every living moment of what F.Y.R. of Macedonia have done so far, it's a very easy line to write.
All eyes in Vilnius will primarily be on Group E and as basketball fans, we all understand why. If Group F ends up living slightly in the shadow of its counterpart then it won't be a big shock.
Only within those shadows, lurks a team I truly feel are capable of big things in this tournament. I could be wrong and hope my confidence doesn't jinx them but F.Y.R. of Macedonia has something truly special which many coaches would give their right arm for.
They possess an uber-chemistry.

If you think Bo McCalebb does not 'honour' the F.Y.R. of Macedonia shirt like his team-mates, it's because you haven't seen him celebrating after every victory of his team in Alytus
Without stellar names (in tournament terms at least), they rely on their leaders bringing the goods to the floor. With quality and rock solid starting players alongside unsung heroes who come off the bench such as Damjan Stojanovski and Giorgij Chekovski, you sense they would all gladly run through a brick wall for their country.
They also win tight games. Well, let's be honest, they simply have to because they don't have the firepower to blow teams away.
In addition, while every player is proud to represent their country, the passion for wearing the F.Y.R. of Macedonia vest just seems to ebb from every pore of every player - yes, even Bo McCalebb, the name on the tip of every cynic's tongue reading this.
I accept the point fully. However, he is hardly the only naturalised player at
EuroBasket 2011. Even the reigning champions have felt the need to make the most of this process despite having a vast talent pool, the kind of which F.Y.R. Of Macedonia could only dream of.
Roared on by their fanatical followers, they have already matched their second phase accomplishment of EuroBasket 2009.
They crave a place in the last eight of this tournament. And as crazy as it may seem to some, I wouldn't back against them to not only get there but to be a seriously uncomfortable team for any opponent in a knockout situation.
Someone could be on the wrong end of a mighty surprise. Only if it happened, it wouldn't be much of a surprise to me.
The only time F.Y.R. of Macedonia will probably be spoken about to the degree they deserve will be if they fell one of the more glamorous nations should they make it to Kaunas.
For now though, it's business as usual as they continue to fight for their position around the top table at Eurobasket 2011 and gain some long overdue recognition and respect.

Raze Lupin
09-08-2011, 02:49 PM
So FYROM has played 6 games with the result of 5 wins and 1 overtime loss. Looks They have already clinched a spot to the knock-out phase. Impressive.....:cool:

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 02:50 PM
well that doesn't mean you are a better team..it is just means that fyrom beat greece once...(and that someone can see a good american basketball player among your team)
Yes, Macedonia beat greece once, and greece did the same to us. However, let's not go off topic.

Dato
09-08-2011, 02:50 PM
well that doesn't mean you are a better team..it is just means that fyrom beat greece once...(and that someone can see a good american basketball player among your team)

It just means that Macedonia deserves to play at Euro. Same applies to Georgia, against whom no one had easy life.

Raze Lupin
09-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Congrats to Macedonia.
Thanks to Georgia. Without injured 2 players of starting five, we maneged to fight till the end. Players are young and such expirience with be valuable for next EURO.
They played great! Some very fast and athletic guys. Congrats

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 02:58 PM
So FYROM has played 6 games with the result of 5 wins and 1 overtime loss. Looks They have already clinched a spot to the knock-out phase. Impressive.....:cool:

They still didn't. There's still a chance for 5-way tie with 3-2 and Georgia left with 0-5, but FYR of MacCalebbonia is amost in QF

Dato
09-08-2011, 02:59 PM
They played great! Some very fast and athletic guys. Congrats

Thanks. Hope next Euro would be better for us.
However, its a pitty that we lost Zaza due to the injury. I think we could go to play-off stage with him without much problems.:(

Raze Lupin
09-08-2011, 03:06 PM
They still didn't. There's still a chance for 5-way tie with 3-2 and Georgia left with 0-5, but FYR of MacCalebbonia is amost in QF

In that case much can happen. SLO will not be easy for them. No one is easy for them. They played all close games except Greece.

Red 7
09-08-2011, 03:13 PM
I am just curious as to what will happen if FYROM and Greece are tied at let's say 3rd place. Would that mean that FYROM would finish 3rd and Greece would finish 4th because of the fact that FYROM beat Greece or would a points difference apply??

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 03:15 PM
I am just curious as to what will happen if FYROM and Greece are tied at let's say 3rd place. Would that mean that FYROM would finish 3rd and Greece would finish 4th because of the fact that FYROM beat Greece or would a points difference apply??

H2H would apply, so FYROM would be higher

Red 7
09-08-2011, 03:16 PM
In that case much can happen. SLO will not be easy for them. No one is easy for them. They played all close games except Greece.

The Greece game was close for 34 minutes. And then I believe with a couple minutes left to the game FYROM had a 20 pt lead. They played well and deserved to win. I would personally like to play them again in this tournament... perhaps for a top 6 place? :rolleyes:

Joško Poljak Fan
09-08-2011, 03:18 PM
Too bad for Georgia. I honestly expected them to make enough upsets in group F to actualy get to quarterfinals. Pachulia missing for Georgia is just like Macedonia missing McCaleb, of course the game ended the way it did and chances for qualifying to quarterfinals are slim to none.

Anyway, Georgia will receive some valuable experience this championship and they definately have a bright future, especialy if they find a guard more for their rotation.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:20 PM
They still didn't. There's still a chance for 5-way tie with 3-2 and Georgia left with 0-5, but FYR of MacCalebbonia is amost in QF

Mate with all do respect, you think using "MacCalebbonia" will result with some downgrade of what my country has achieved? Is it so difficult for you to simply say Macedonia?

Lithuania is a great country, don't spoil the impression with these ignorant comments. The Greeks are done with it, I don't see the point of some Lithuanian person to continue that rather stupid legacy.

On a side note...we kick ass:)

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 03:25 PM
They still didn't. There's still a chance for 5-way tie with 3-2 and Georgia left with 0-5, but FYR of MacCalebbonia is amost in QF
Yes we did. Macedonia is in 1/4 final together with France.

Stardusted
09-08-2011, 03:26 PM
Guys, you lost from Macedonia by 14 points. Please do not write something that you are contradicting yourself. It just looks funny

Funny? you mean like a guy who compares a traditional basketball force with several medals finals semi finals and countless places in top 4 teams of various tournaments with his team that managed to win over a heavily "injured" team that lacked tons of it's best players and is clearly in the build again phase?

What exactly do you want to hear? That you played better? You did, and you won. Fair enough.

The rest is comical at best. You need several decades and even then you still won't be comparable because Greece will only rise from here on.

When Greece won Euro in football my friend, only ignorant arrogant fools dared to compare it to say france or brazil or italy. That's because those who were not fools, knew better.

I guess you don't. It's ok, you will be schooled if you are still here a couple of years ahead.

In the mid-time, do a bit of research for who exactly Greece is in basketball. It's not the first time a big team is at a much lower than usual level. It's only natural. Don't be cocky, I will paste it all back to you no matter when we meet again.

Red 7
09-08-2011, 03:31 PM
Mate with all do respect, you think using "MacCalebbonia" will result with some downgrade of what my country has achieved? Is it so difficult for you to simply say Macedonia?

Lithuania is a great country, don't spoil the impression with these ignorant comments. The Greeks are done with it, I don't see the point of some Lithuanian person to continue that rather stupid legacy.

On a side note...we kick ass:)

On a side note, Greeks don't call you Macedonia or FYROM. They call you Skopia because there is a region in Greece called Macedonia for thousands of years now. Anyway, I do not wish to involve politics in this basketball only forum... i just wanted to correct you on your above statement. Now which side is correct.... we're not going to solve it here :)

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 03:32 PM
Mate with all do respect, you think using "MacCalebbonia" will result with some downgrade of what my country has achieved? Is it so difficult for you to simply say Macedonia?

Lithuania is a great country, don't spoil the impression with these ignorant comments. The Greeks are done with it, I don't see the point of some Lithuanian person to continue that rather stupid legacy.

On a side note...we kick ass:)

Jeez man, what downgrade? Don't take it all too sensitive and too serious, none is goin' to deny your achievements or anything :rolleyes:


Yes we did. Macedonia is in 1/4 final together with France.

No man, you're still not. It is possible 5-way tie as I've wrote, you can be out with worst +/- difference in that case. There's small chances for it, but it is

Miškinis
09-08-2011, 03:33 PM
Mate with all do respect, you think using "MacCalebbonia" will result with some downgrade of what my country has achieved? Is it so difficult for you to simply say Macedonia?

Lithuania is a great country, don't spoil the impression with these ignorant comments. The Greeks are done with it, I don't see the point of some Lithuanian person to continue that rather stupid legacy.

On a side note...we kick ass:)

The majority of lithuanians (including me) do not like naturalization. Winning on your own and winning with a help of somebody else are two different things.

For me it's a huge disappointment to see such kind of teams. Personally I don't feel any respect to the teams that uses naturalized players. I would be even more disappointed if one of those teams won a medal.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:34 PM
Funny? you mean like a guy who compares a traditional basketball force with several medals finals semi finals and countless places in top 4 teams of various tournaments with his team that managed to win over a heavily "injured" team that lacked tons of it's best players and is clearly in the build again phase?

What exactly do you want to hear? That you played better? You did, and you won. Fair enough.

The rest is comical at best. You need several decades and even then you still won't be comparable because Greece will only rise from here on.

When Greece won Euro in football my friend, only ignorant arrogant fools dared to compare it to say france or brazil or italy. That's because those who were not fools, knew better.

I guess you don't. It's ok, you will be schooled if you are still here a couple of years ahead.

In the mid-time, do a bit of research for who exactly Greece is in basketball. It's not the first time a big team is at a much lower than usual level. It's only natural. Don't be cocky, I will paste it all back to you no matter when we meet again.

I guess some of those comparing Greece with France, Brazil or Italy were at the border the day after the match? :) Greeks have a great team and they can reach really far if they turn on the "mentality". The knockout phase is all about motivation, quality comes second.

Red 7
09-08-2011, 03:36 PM
I guess some of those comparing Greece with France, Brazil or Italy were at the border the day after the match? :) Greeks have a great team and they can reach really far if they turn on the "mentality". The knockout phase is all about motivation, quality comes second.

Hmmmmmm.... you've been watching basketball HOW long???

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Funny? you mean like a guy who compares a traditional basketball force with several medals finals semi finals and countless places in top 4 teams of various tournaments with his team that managed to win over a heavily "injured" team that lacked tons of it's best players and is clearly in the build again phase?

What exactly do you want to hear? That you played better? You did, and you won. Fair enough.

The rest is comical at best. You need several decades and even then you still won't be comparable because Greece will only rise from here on.

When Greece won Euro in football my friend, only ignorant arrogant fools dared to compare it to say france or brazil or italy. That's because those who were not fools, knew better.

I guess you don't. It's ok, you will be schooled if you are still here a couple of years ahead.

In the mid-time, do a bit of research for who exactly Greece is in basketball. It's not the first time a big team is at a much lower than usual level. It's only natural. Don't be cocky, I will paste it all back to you no matter when we meet again.
Dude I did not say who is Greece in basketball. What is your problem?!?! You sound like a cry baby right now because you and your greek fellas can not simply believe what happened few days ago. I do not deny that Greece is one of the best teams in Europe. You know and I know that most of your greek fellas try to reject, oppose and be so ignorant that I am already sick of it! Let me have my fun, because this is the biggest success for the Macedonian basketball and I want to enjoy it! And please do not write on this thread about the "glory" and "rise" of the greek team.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:37 PM
The majority of lithuanians (including me) do not like naturalization. Winning on your own and winning with a help of somebody else are two different things.

For me it's a huge disappointment to see such kind of teams. Personally I don't feel any respect to the teams that uses naturalized players.

Ok I respect your opinion, just be aware that someday you might lose the respect for your own team ;)

Miškinis
09-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Ok I respect your opinion, just be aware that someday you might lose the respect for your own team ;)

If that day will come - that team will no longer be my team.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Jeez man, what downgrade? Don't take it all too sensitive and too serious, none is goin' to deny your achievements or anything :rolleyes:




It's not a sensitive comment at all, just to make a statement.

Red 7
09-08-2011, 03:41 PM
Dude I did not say who is Greece in basketball. What is your problem?!?! You sound like a cry baby right now because you and your greek fellas can not simply believe what happened few days ago. I do not deny that Greece is one of the best teams in Europe. You know and I know that most of your greek fellas try to reject, oppose and be so ignorant that I already sick of it! Let me have my fun, because this is the biggest success for the Macedonian basketball and I want to enjoy it! And please do not write on this thread about the "glory" and "rise" of the greek team.

I believe that all Greeks have admitted that FYROM played better than us and deserved to win. However, (I don't believe you were a member of this forum then) when you won many FYROMians signed up as users and started to say some 'nasty' things... also your media has blown that victory waaay out of proportion. Now discussing the basketball weight of these two nations does not really make much sense..... that I agree with you...

On a personal note, I like your team a lot. Limited talent (except Bo & Iliefski) and very very tough team to break. They are mentally strong and they stick to their plan. Bo has taken this team one or maybe two levels higher than it would be without him. Similarly with us, Spanoulis would have made our team much stronger.

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 03:43 PM
It's not a sensitive comment at all, just to make a statement.

So I hope you feel better now after you made it

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:44 PM
Hmmmmmm.... you've been watching basketball HOW long???

Well the match with Georgia was my first game ever so I would say, 3 hours in total since I'm looking at the replays...or that doesn't count? :) Have a great day I hope you will show your quality tonight.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 03:45 PM
So I hope you feel better now after you made it

I feel good all day long, and it gets better and better: ) I'm off to the bars to make a beer statement :D take care dudes!

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 03:48 PM
I believe that all Greeks have admitted that FYROM played better than us and deserved to win. However, (I don't believe you were a member of this forum then) when you won many FYROMians signed up as users and started to say some 'nasty' things... also your media has blown that victory waaay out of proportion. Now discussing the basketball weight of these two nations does not really make much sense..... that I agree with you...

On a personal note, I like your team a lot. Limited talent (except Bo & Iliefski) and very very tough team to break. They are mentally strong and they stick to their plan. Bo has taken this team one or maybe two levels higher than it would be without him. Similarly with us, Spanoulis would have made our team much stronger.
About the media I do not agree. Macedonia was hungry for something like this to happen. And winning against Greece, you know what it meant for us :) Yes without Bo I am pretty sure we would not even think about the 1/4.

Stardusted
09-08-2011, 03:49 PM
Dude I did not say who is Greece in basketball. What is your problem?!?! You sound like a cry baby right now because you and your greek fellas can not simply believe what happened few days ago. I do not deny that Greece is one of the best teams in Europe. You know and I know that most of your greek fellas try to reject, oppose and be so ignorant that I am already sick of it! Let me have my fun, because this is the biggest success for the Macedonian basketball and I want to enjoy it! And please do not write on this thread about the "glory" and "rise" of the greek team.

I do not represent any fellas, I did not use the word glory.

Also, I have no problem believing we lost, because we have lost again in upset games. Every team has, big or small. The fact that you say I cannot believe it, is only to enhance your joy. If it helps you feel better, fine with me.

As a matter of fact, I don't even care if you pass or be eliminated, I don't even care if you take the first place. Only thing that matters for me is that Greece takes at least the 6th place.

That doesnt mean that I don't have the right to express my oppinion and if it ruins your joy, well I'll let you guess just how much I care.



The majority of lithuanians (including me) do not like naturalization. Winning on your own and winning with a help of somebody else are two different things.

For me it's a huge disappointment to see such kind of teams. Personally I don't feel any respect to the teams that uses naturalized players. I would be even more disappointed if one of those teams would win a medal.

Amen and +1 for the naturalized players, I was against it even when many called for batist to be in the greek NT. It just ain't right in my eyes.

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 03:59 PM
I feel good all day long, and it gets better and better: ) I'm off to the bars to make a beer statement :D take care dudes!

Ok, have a good time, I'm gonna make my beer statement tomorrow. If it won't be enough and compelling - vodka should do the job and persuade everybody :cool:

Vlatko.klp
09-08-2011, 04:03 PM
I do not represent any fellas, I did not use the word glory.

Also, I have no problem believing we lost, because we have lost again in upset games. Every team has, big or small. The fact that you say I cannot believe it, is only to enhance your joy. If it helps you feel better, fine with me.

As a matter of fact, I don't even care if you pass or be eliminated, I don't even care if you take the first place. Only thing that matters for me is that Greece takes at least the 6th place.

That doesnt mean that I don't have the right to express my oppinion and if it ruins your joy, well I'll let you guess just how much I care.
Aaaaah okay dude. Greece is the best! how do you feel now? :D I do not have the strength anymore to have a "fight" with you in a way. I am going for some beer as well to celebrate Macedonia's independence and entering the 1/4 finals :). Cheers!

Red 7
09-08-2011, 04:06 PM
Aaaaah okay dude. Greece is the best! how do you feel now? :D I do not have the strength anymore to have a "fight" with you in a way. I am going for some beer as well to celebrate Macedonia's independence and entering the 1/4 finals :). Cheers!

Independence??? When was Macedonia ever occupied??

Guard
09-08-2011, 04:10 PM
Haynes was signed as an spectacular player. Today (first time I see him and Georgia in this Eurobasket), I didn't see nothing in him...

BTW, Guard. Your country location is for supporting the Sheikh of Málaga CF?:D

[Sorry for the Offtopic]

hehe nah not really. But I'm going there for a vacation next month.

pohani komarac
09-08-2011, 04:15 PM
i smell europe here, pure joy:D

Stardusted
09-08-2011, 04:19 PM
Aaaaah okay dude. Greece is the best! how do you feel now? :D I do not have the strength anymore to have a "fight" with you in a way. I am going for some beer as well to celebrate Macedonia's independence and entering the 1/4 finals :). Cheers!

Where in my post did I fight or said that Greece is the best? You are either delusional or drunk already.

Go celebrate whatever you want, you clearly are incapable of really discussing anything and only able to use pointless name calling and ironic "yeah yeah you are the best ok" comments.

Grow up.

kecal
09-08-2011, 05:03 PM
If that day will come - that team will no longer be my team.

Oh, come on, we all know that's simply not true...

I don't like naturalization either - at least the way how it's done recently, with so many people being granted citizenship with no proper ground, just in order to strengthen the NT... However, if some dude one day plays for Žalgiris or Lietuvos Rytas for maybe 5 or more years, gets married with a Lithuanian girl and wants to play for us, so why not? It's just that the needs of the NT should not come first, before the relation of the player with the country...

Actually, I'm affraid one of the major reasons for hating naturalization so much might be some kind of (subconscious?) racism... I judge that from strange fascination with the "black" French team I see in Lithuania...

Back to the business: I feel sorry for the Georgians - I like your country and wish you all the best. But also congrats for Macedonians - you guys must be proud of your team!

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 05:35 PM
Oh, come on, we all know that's simply not true...

C'mon, he just stated his opinion. I also wouldn't have the same feelings towards our NT, yeah I'd still watch it, support it, but it'd not be the same, more of like cheering for some "BC Siauliai" in Eurocup. We won - ok, we lost - no hard feelings, no heartche, nothing...


I don't like naturalization either - at least the way how it's done recently, with so many people being granted citizenship with no proper ground, just in order to strengthen the NT... However, if some dude one day plays for Žalgiris or Lietuvos Rytas for maybe 5 or more years, gets married with a Lithuanian girl and wants to play for us, so why not? It's just that the needs of the NT should not come first, before the relation of the player with the country...

I'm not any kind of nacionalist or racist, far from that, but NT must be for Lithuanians, just in case of sportmanship and idea of those international tournaments. Especially with all the rich history, traditions and bball culture we have, we simply don't need it, why to spoil it all? It can be players with Lithuanian roots born outside the country, like once Lubinas was, I'm not against it, but no Kamans, Holdens, Bos or smth...


I don't condemn the countries which naturalize players, it's their business, but just they lost it's identity, little bit of respect with doin' so

Terrorizer
09-08-2011, 05:39 PM
The majority of lithuanians (including me) do not like naturalization. Winning on your own and winning with a help of somebody else are two different things.

Yes, I think that it's a rather appropriate point of view and I am not a very big fan of naturalisation myself, but your next statement looks too hard and aggressive:


For me it's a huge disappointment to see such kind of teams. Personally I don't feel any respect to the teams that uses naturalized players. I would be even more disappointed if one of those teams would win a medal.
Most of the major bball powers in Europe have used naturalised players at one point of time or another - Spain with Johny Rogers or even today's Serge Ibaka and Nikola Mirotic, Italy with Gregor Fucka, Nikola Radulovic or Carlton Myers, France with Tariq Kirksay and the whole bunch of players born in countries like Cote d'Ivoire or DR Congo, Russia with J.R. Holden or Kelly McCarty, Greece with Jake Tsakalidis (born Alexei Ledkov) and the very present in today's team US-born Americans with Greek surnames but no way real Greeks, Croatia with Damir Mulaomerovic (and, yes, the mighty Dontaye Draper), Slovenia with their tradition of naturalising Bosniaks like Teoman Alibegovic or today's Mirza Begic and so on. So all these teams don't earn even slightest shade of respect just because they use (or have used in the past) naturalised players? For me it makes no sense really 'cause some of these countries made (and continuing to make) much more impact in European basketball development than any European country that didn't use naturalised players (maybe aside from Serbia and I don't even exactly know have or have not Serbs used naturalised players in the past).
On topic, maybe today the game was sometimes so close because the Macedonian leaders tend to make many silly mistakes - Illievski often was really lost and made some stupid decisions, Antic was missing open shots and McCalebb has very up-and-down performance today (though at the end he made crucial shots and can be even seen as a hero of the game). Btw, this Georgian team together with Macedonians stands for the most pleasant surprise of this EuroBasket although it's still very raw and unstable.

Terrorizer
09-08-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm not any kind of nacionalist or racist, far from that, but NT must be for Lithuanians, just in case of sportmanship and idea of those international tournaments.
What do you mean by Lithuanians? The ethnicity or the nation of Lithuania composed from all ethnicities living in your country? If the first, than why do you not protest for Pole with Polish name and surname K. Lavrinovicz being included in your team?




I don't condemn the countries which naturalize players, it's their business, but just they lost it's identity, little bit of respect with doin' so
I don't judge them. I even like to see more competitive Macedonia with 11 Macedonian players and one McCalebb than less competitive Macedonia with 12 Macedonians in the roster. Just for the sake of good basketball :) Though I'm happy that Russian team is composed entirely of non-naturalised players and was also very disappointed to see J.R. Holden in our team (but mostly because I hate his no-brainer playing style and the fact that living in Russia for years he persistently didn't learn Russian language and didn't have some kind of respect to our traditions - and this situation is polar than, f.e., with Fucka and Italy who was really 'naturalised' in Italy).

Robimkd
09-08-2011, 06:16 PM
Hello basketball lovers.

The truth is that we played our poorest match in the tournament and we must sa thanks to Bo today.

Defense worked well again today probably the best defense of the EC.

Offensive was really bad. Vojdan needs to steep up when Antic, Ilievski and Gecevski have a poor day, very talented but has no balls. He is a player who could easily have 15 points every match.

Miškinis
09-08-2011, 06:26 PM
Most of the major bball powers in Europe have used naturalised players at one point of time or another - Spain with Johny Rogers or even today's Serge Ibaka and Nikola Mirotic, Italy with Gregor Fucka, Nikola Radulovic or Carlton Myers, France with Tariq Kirksay and the whole bunch of players born in countries like Cote d'Ivoire or DR Congo, Russia with J.R. Holden or Kelly McCarty, Greece with Jake Tsakalidis (born Alexei Ledkov) and the very present in today's team US-born Americans with Greek surnames but no way real Greeks, Croatia with Damir Mulaomerovic (and, yes, the mighty Dontaye Draper), Slovenia with their tradition of naturalising Bosniaks like Teoman Alibegovic or today's Mirza Begic and so on. So all these teams don't earn even slightest shade of respect just because they use (or have used in the past) naturalised players? For me it makes no sense really 'cause some of these countries made (and continuing to make) much more impact in European basketball development than any European country that didn't use naturalised players (maybe aside from Serbia and I don't even exactly know have or have not Serbs used naturalised players in the past).
On topic, maybe today the game was sometimes so close because the Macedonian leaders tend to make many silly mistakes - Illievski often was really lost and made some stupid decisions, Antic was missing open shots and McCalebb has very up-and-down performance today (though at the end he made crucial shots and can be even seen as a hero of the game). Btw, this Georgian team together with Macedonians stands for the most pleasant surprise of this EuroBasket although it's still very raw and unstable.

After reading yours and some other posts I feel like I am from a different planet .. promotion, impact to the basketball itself, other excuses ... what are talking about? Guys you did not understand me at all ...

And what concerns aggressiveness - I'm sorry, I've never meant to look like that. I have no disrespect to a country as such. I just don't like/don't respect teams that represents that particular country. This is by no means related to racism or anything like that...

Ok, never mind, I've just expressed my thoughts ... I'm not going to continue on this ...

Robimkd
09-08-2011, 06:31 PM
To be honest so I did not think we would have such European Championship, and probably none of you either.

Truthe be told we had a lot of problems during the preperation such as Makaleb comming late just as Gecevski and later Gecevsko got injured in Germany.

We lost Riste Stefanov who got injured during the preperations in Slovenia against Poland with his experience from Lukoil, Besiktas, AEK and Union Olimpia he is an importent player

But also our young and talented center Kiril Nikolovski (212) got injured just a few days from the EC, he wos our best center during the whole preperations.

This hit the rotation. With Stefanov and Nikolovski out we could not rotate 10players.

But still we made it, just unreal.

I would not wright of our team in the 1/4 match. We are in a golden possition we can rest our players while all others have to waste energy.

If we can aviod Spain, why not against a tired Serbia, or a tired host.

Defence is good and we can play better offensive.

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 06:32 PM
What do you mean by Lithuanians? The ethnicity or the nation of Lithuania composed from all ethnicities living in your country? If the first, than why do you not protest for Pole with Polish name and surname K. Lavrinovicz being included in your team?

I mean - Lithuanians, I don't care if one's surname is Polish, Russian or even Congolese. Lavrinovic bros were born in LT, raised in LT, learned to play bball in LT, considers themselves as Liths, owns LT citizenship, so I see no slightest problems here. And as I've wrote previously: I wouldn't have problems with similar cases to legendary Lubinas, who's Lith parents emigrated to US and he was born already there. Or now with Sabas sons (or son), who also were born in Spain, but playin' for our youth NTs. With globalisation getting bigger and wider, we might have lot of cases like that

Mindozas
09-08-2011, 06:37 PM
I would not wright of our team in the 1/4 match. We are in a golden possition we can rest our players while all others have to waste energy.

If we can aviod Spain, why not against a tired Serbia, or a tired host.

Defence is good and we can play better offensive.

If you want to avoid Spain - you better don't do it ;) I guess Spain will be 1st in our group, so if you'll lose both games - you might drop to 4th

Robimkd
09-08-2011, 06:42 PM
Might try to beat Slovenia hehe just to aviod Spain. Rest against Russia. Thats 4 days of. Should do it with 4 days of.

DDminor
09-08-2011, 08:02 PM
Independence??? When was Macedonia ever occupied??

Does one have to be occupied in order to apply for an independence day?: )

Terrorizer
09-08-2011, 09:27 PM
I mean - Lithuanians, I don't care if one's surname is Polish, Russian or even Congolese.

I think that sometimes it's pretty hard to tell exactly what is the nationality of the given person. I don't know if Viktor Khryapa feels himself more Ukrainian or more Russian. And also I don't know if Krzysztof Lawrynowicz considers himself more Lithuanian or more Pole.

Among the people living in Lithuania permanently and being citizens of Lithuania there are ones from different ethnic groups - except Lithuanians, Poles and Russians being the most numerous among them. So what do you say about Pole (or Russian) who was born and raised in Lithuania, lives in Lithuania, loves his country (I mean, Lithuania) but considers himself Pole (or Russian) playina in your NT? Is it ok or the Lithuanian NT is only for Liths? In the second case I see something chauvinistic in your point of view.


Lavrinovic bros were born in LT, raised in LT, learned to play bball in LT, considers themselves as Liths, owns LT citizenship, so I see no slightest problems here.

Are you sure that they consider themselves as Liths (at least at the ethnical aspect) and not Poles? And if you think that Lithuanian NT is only for Lithuanians that is some major question.


And as I've wrote previously: I wouldn't have problems with similar cases to legendary Lubinas, who's Lith parents emigrated to US and he was born already there. Or now with Sabas sons (or son), who also were born in Spain, but playin' for our youth NTs. With globalisation getting bigger and wider, we might have lot of cases like that
It seems inconsistent to me. Ethnical Pole Lawrinowicz born, raised, learned to play bball in Lithuania is ok for Lithuanian bball player, but ethnical Lithuanian Frank John Lubin (a.k.a. Pranas Lubinas) born, raised, learned to play bball in US (and who had something to do with Lithuania and its basketball for not more than 5 years of his life) isn't American bball player, but Lithuanian. I think that it's close to double standards.

My personal point of view is that it's more important where the man was raised, which language does he speak at home, in which country he plans to live on permanent basis than simply his ethnicity. So I think that ethnical Poles bros Lawrinowicz are more suitable for Lithuania NT than ethnical Lithuanian Tautvydas Sabonis. But it's just my imho :) Ok, I think that I am already deeply off topic so maybe it's better to discuss this themes in a topic more appropriate for it.

thegreekmeister
09-08-2011, 09:34 PM
What do you mean by Lithuanians? The ethnicity or the nation of Lithuania composed from all ethnicities living in your country? If the first, than why do you not protest for Pole with Polish name and surname K. Lavrinovicz being included in your team?


Dude, Lavrinovic is born and raised in Lithuania (besides few generations back his grandgrandparents are purely lithuanian). Nobody questions ethnic minorities. Get a grip, we are talking about disgraceful "bought" foreigners like Holden, mccaleb, Ibaka, kelati and many more. It makes me puke to be honest. money over honesty...

Jon_Koncak
09-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Dude, Lavrinovic is born and raised in Lithuania (besides few generations back his grandgrandparents are purely lithuanian). Nobody questions ethnic minorities. Get a grip, we are talking about disgraceful "bought" foreigners like Holden, mccaleb, Ibaka, kelati and many more. It makes me puke to be honest. money over honesty...

what about Kaman's case?

Red 7
09-08-2011, 09:47 PM
Might try to beat Slovenia hehe just to aviod Spain. Rest against Russia. Thats 4 days of. Should do it with 4 days of.

Take it from someone who has watched many eurobaskets.... choosing which team to play against is a double-edged sword.... Don't forget that you haven't yet played against a truly good Eurobasket contender team (yes, I'm including Greece in this list) such as Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, France, Turkey or Russia. Don't get ahead of yourself... you must take it step by step.

thegreekmeister
09-08-2011, 09:47 PM
what about Kaman's case?

He is american. German american. Although at least he is german american to Germany unlike Holden which is surely not russian american. So his case is one step "lighter". But he is american.

Robimkd
09-08-2011, 10:36 PM
Take it from someone who has watched many eurobaskets.... choosing which team to play against is a double-edged sword.... Don't forget that you haven't yet played against a truly good Eurobasket contender team (yes, I'm including Greece in this list) such as Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, France, Turkey or Russia. Don't get ahead of yourself... you must take it step by step.


I think that Greece have good team. Playd nice and smart basketball against Croatia. Greece is better than you think. You will not win gold this year but in 2-3 years.

Well I agree. But even if we lose all the remaining matches we can still be happy with the result. No one expected quarterfinals even if we come close already 2009 to qualify for quarterfinals. Only 5 min seperated us from quarterfinals.

Most of the teams are stronger 2011 than 2009 so this will be difficult.

I am just saying that we have better chances agaisnt a tired LTU or SRB than a LTU or SRB with energy. Not saying that we will win we just might make a thriller out of it.

FRA basketball style do not fit our style believe me, and Spain simply has to much skills tired or not.

pohani komarac
09-08-2011, 10:42 PM
Yes, I think that it's a rather appropriate point of view and I am not a very big fan of naturalisation myself, but your next statement looks too hard and aggressive:


Most of the major bball powers in Europe have used naturalised players at one point of time or another - Spain with Johny Rogers or even today's Serge Ibaka and Nikola Mirotic, Italy with Gregor Fucka, Nikola Radulovic or Carlton Myers, France with Tariq Kirksay and the whole bunch of players born in countries like Cote d'Ivoire or DR Congo, Russia with J.R. Holden or Kelly McCarty, Greece with Jake Tsakalidis (born Alexei Ledkov) and the very present in today's team US-born Americans with Greek surnames but no way real Greeks, Croatia with Damir Mulaomerovic (and, yes, the mighty Dontaye Draper), Slovenia with their tradition of naturalising Bosniaks like Teoman Alibegovic or today's Mirza Begic and so on. So all these teams don't earn even slightest shade of respect just because they use (or have used in the past) naturalised players? For me it makes no sense really 'cause some of these countries made (and continuing to make) much more impact in European basketball development than any European country that didn't use naturalised players (maybe aside from Serbia and I don't even exactly know have or have not Serbs used naturalised players in the past).
On topic, maybe today the game was sometimes so close because the Macedonian leaders tend to make many silly mistakes - Illievski often was really lost and made some stupid decisions, Antic was missing open shots and McCalebb has very up-and-down performance today (though at the end he made crucial shots and can be even seen as a hero of the game). Btw, this Georgian team together with Macedonians stands for the most pleasant surprise of this EuroBasket although it's still very raw and unstable.

Croatia made much bigger impact when didn't have naturalized players. Croatia was winnig medals without and Croats had huge influance in mighty Yugoslavia fom 1970 to 1991, and during that period from 1970 to somewre like 2000 when Basketball was fully developed sport and very close to football trough that period. So no, in Croatian case naturalizing player didn't do anything to help and develope our basketball. Us nuturalzing foreginer is one more step back and another proof of downfall of our basketball

This is big disgrace for our basketball and hopefully we won't need buy or steal from others players

Stardusted
09-08-2011, 10:58 PM
Yes, I think that it's a rather appropriate point of view and I am not a very big fan of naturalisation myself, but your next statement looks too hard and aggressive:


Most of the major bball powers in Europe have used naturalised players at one point of time or another - Spain with Johny Rogers or even today's Serge Ibaka and Nikola Mirotic, Italy with Gregor Fucka, Nikola Radulovic or Carlton Myers, France with Tariq Kirksay and the whole bunch of players born in countries like Cote d'Ivoire or DR Congo, Russia with J.R. Holden or Kelly McCarty, Greece with Jake Tsakalidis (born Alexei Ledkov) and the very present in today's team US-born Americans with Greek surnames but no way real Greeks, Croatia with Damir Mulaomerovic (and, yes, the mighty Dontaye Draper), Slovenia with their tradition of naturalising Bosniaks like Teoman Alibegovic or today's Mirza Begic and so on. So all these teams don't earn even slightest shade of respect just because they use (or have used in the past) naturalised players? For me it makes no sense really 'cause some of these countries made (and continuing to make) much more impact in European basketball development than any European country that didn't use naturalised players (maybe aside from Serbia and I don't even exactly know have or have not Serbs used naturalised players in the past).
On topic, maybe today the game was sometimes so close because the Macedonian leaders tend to make many silly mistakes - Illievski often was really lost and made some stupid decisions, Antic was missing open shots and McCalebb has very up-and-down performance today (though at the end he made crucial shots and can be even seen as a hero of the game). Btw, this Georgian team together with Macedonians stands for the most pleasant surprise of this EuroBasket although it's still very raw and unstable.

Calathes Bramos Koufos ARE greek-americans. They do have relatives who are greek, and their "roots" are greek as well.

They are in no way naturalised players. You obviously don't know what you talk about.

Naturalised players are cheating the way I see it. Yes, cheating. It ain't a matter of racism, it is common sense. If you allow to take naturalised players in National Teams then they are not true national teams anymore.

That is bad for basketball if you just sit down and think about it. It takes away a spot for a potential talent of a country and instead puts an american (most of the times) there. And for what? So that he can play in his club team.

As long as national teams are called national teams, then naturalised players are something that should not be allowed. Convert them to clubs and you can call whoever you want.

Overthetop
09-09-2011, 05:47 AM
Macedonia is biggest surprise of the tournament by far.

Red 7
09-09-2011, 09:39 AM
Calathes Bramos Koufos ARE greek-americans. They do have relatives who are greek, and their "roots" are greek as well.

They are in no way naturalised players. You obviously don't know what you talk about.

Naturalised players are cheating the way I see it. Yes, cheating. It ain't a matter of racism, it is common sense. If you allow to take naturalised players in National Teams then they are not true national teams anymore.

That is bad for basketball if you just sit down and think about it. It takes away a spot for a potential talent of a country and instead puts an american (most of the times) there. And for what? So that he can play in his club team.

As long as national teams are called national teams, then naturalised players are something that should not be allowed. Convert them to clubs and you can call whoever you want.

I personally agree with naturalisation in certain cases. I think that after so many years, if Batiste was allowed to play for Greece, he would be most welcome. I mean after so many years, he is practically part Greek.

The same goes for JR Holden who played in CSKA Moscow for many years before you was naturalised.

I do not agree with what most Balacan countries are doing (FYROM as the best example) where they granted FYROM passports to players who really have absolutely no connection to their country!! I mean Bo and Massey probably do not even know where FYROM is on the map... so that is quite insulting to everybody's intelligence. If for example, either Bo or Massey had lived in FYROM for several years, or married a local or had some sort of strong connection to FYROM, I would completely agree with them playing for FYROM.

The way things are at the moment, it is quite degrading to the concept of national teams and to Eurobasket. I predict in a few years, that some teams will have 2 or 3 actual locals and the rest will be naturalised. Maybe it should be changed from Eurobasket to Euroleague :)

Red 7
09-09-2011, 09:39 AM
Macedonia is biggest surprise of the tournament by far.

Absolutely agree.

Dato
09-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Regarding naturalisation, I do not agree with most of the members who are against it.
I think, that for the development of basketball it is very important, that teams like Macedonia are successfull in top tournaments (even with the help of foreigner). As a result, more children in Macedonia will play basketball. Same applies to other non top basketball countires.

Moreover, exept few teams, everyone naturalise or used to naturalise foreigners before in various ways. Even Spain which has by far the best selection of players in Europe naturalised Ibaka.

Note, that my team (Georgia), which has weakest naturalised guy lost yesterday against Macedonia as we could not deal with their american guy (with due respect, Macedonia without Maccaleb is much weaker than Georgia even without Pachulia, saying nothing about Heins).
However, I am not going to complain about it. Moreover, I think that Macedonian Federation did great job and I can not say the same about their Georgian collegues.

Robimkd
09-09-2011, 11:19 AM
I personally agree with naturalisation in certain cases. I think that after so many years, if Batiste was allowed to play for Greece, he would be most welcome. I mean after so many years, he is practically part Greek.

The same goes for JR Holden who played in CSKA Moscow for many years before you was naturalised.

I do not agree with what most Balacan countries are doing (FYROM as the best example) where they granted FYROM passports to players who really have absolutely no connection to their country!! I mean Bo and Massey probably do not even know where FYROM is on the map... so that is quite insulting to everybody's intelligence. If for example, either Bo or Massey had lived in FYROM for several years, or married a local or had some sort of strong connection to FYROM, I would completely agree with them playing for FYROM.

The way things are at the moment, it is quite degrading to the concept of national teams and to Eurobasket. I predict in a few years, that some teams will have 2 or 3 actual locals and the rest will be naturalised. Maybe it should be changed from Eurobasket to Euroleague :)



BC Aris and our basketball federation had a thing going on for many years. In a period of 4 years not less than 10 Aris players had our passort.

Bo that is the first non Aris players with a passport in his hand. Pure sport ralated.

Thing is that Bo is dating a girl from Skopje since las summer just 14 days after joining our NT, they live in Italy.

But this still do not make him our basketball product. I agree but still his is the rules and Holden won gold for Russia.



Anyway i think the ridiculous hate on internet should stop onece and for all from both sides. On Internet we act like idiots but the reality is that 500.000 macedonians visited Greece this summer and over 1 milion greeks visited cityes Gevgelija, Bitola, Ohrid, Prilep to shop because it's cheap.

No one complined everybady are treated good from both sides.

Dato
09-09-2011, 11:27 AM
I personally agree with naturalisation in certain cases. I think that after so many years, if Batiste was allowed to play for Greece, he would be most welcome. I mean after so many years, he is practically part Greek.

The same goes for JR Holden who played in CSKA Moscow for many years before you was naturalised.

I do not agree with what most Balacan countries are doing (FYROM as the best example) where they granted FYROM passports to players who really have absolutely no connection to their country!! I mean Bo and Massey probably do not even know where FYROM is on the map... so that is quite insulting to everybody's intelligence. If for example, either Bo or Massey had lived in FYROM for several years, or married a local or had some sort of strong connection to FYROM, I would completely agree with them playing for FYROM.

The way things are at the moment, it is quite degrading to the concept of national teams and to Eurobasket. I predict in a few years, that some teams will have 2 or 3 actual locals and the rest will be naturalised. Maybe it should be changed from Eurobasket to Euroleague :)

Come on. It is just speculation on the procedure of naturalization. If I marry Greek or German girl, I would still be Georgian in all aspects. Maximum, I would like country of my wife more than I do it now. Thats all.
I dont think it makes big difference.:)

Red 7
09-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Come on. It is just speculation on the procedure of naturalization. If I marry Greek or German girl, I would still be Georgian in all aspects. Maximum, I would like country of my wife more than I do it now. Thats all.
I dont think it makes big difference.:)

Yes, but if as a Georgian you played bball in Greece for several years (i.e., 5 at least) and then was offered to play for the Greek NT I think that this would be OK. Dating a Greek girl is a circumstance of living and Greece and adopting part of our culture... it could be anything really... having a house in Greece, loving the country, etc etc. I would prefer that than having a player who has absolutely no connection to the country. Batiste for example has been in Greece for 7-8 years and is for all intensive purposes part Greek now. It doesn't matter where you are from, its how you feel that is important and the second part is difficult to prove. But it can be shown in certain ways... see above.

Dato
09-09-2011, 12:31 PM
Yes, but if as a Georgian you played bball in Greece for several years (i.e., 5 at least) and then was offered to play for the Greek NT I think that this would be OK. Dating a Greek girl is a circumstance of living and Greece and adopting part of our culture... it could be anything really... having a house in Greece, loving the country, etc etc. I would prefer that than having a player who has absolutely no connection to the country. Batiste for example has been in Greece for 7-8 years and is for all intensive purposes part Greek now. It doesn't matter where you are from, its how you feel that is important and the second part is difficult to prove. But it can be shown in certain ways... see above.

I understand what you mean. As I said above, I approve naturilization of 1 guy, specially for developing basketball nations.

However, when you naturalise someone, you do not need to seek strange justification for it. Living several years in Greece does not mean, that Batiste is a product of Greek basketball. Are you shure that Batiste will not play for Georgia if we offer him good money? Pachulia did not played for Turkey. He had offers but he said, ,,Thanks, but I am Georgian". Would Batiste say the same if we try to recruit him?

You are trying to say: ,,Look, if we get Batiste, its ok, because he lived 7 years in Greece. and Macedonians, Bulgarians, Georgians or others are bad guys, because their American guy has no ties with these countires".
And I am saying, that naturalisation is naturalisation. And living in a foreign country for few years does not make important difference.

Red 7
09-09-2011, 01:38 PM
I understand what you mean. As I said above, I approve naturilization of 1 guy, specially for developing basketball nations.

However, when you naturalise someone, you do not need to seek strange justification for it. Living several years in Greece does not mean, that Batiste is a product of Greek basketball. Are you shure that Batiste will not play for Georgia if we offer him good money? Pachulia did not played for Turkey. He had offers but he said, ,,Thanks, but I am Georgian". Would Batiste say the same if we try to recruit him?

You are trying to say: ,,Look, if we get Batiste, its ok, because he lived 7 years in Greece. and Macedonians, Bulgarians, Georgians or others are bad guys, because their American guy has no ties with these countires".
And I am saying, that naturalisation is naturalisation. And living in a foreign country for few years does not make important difference.

You are looking at this with very strict (and in my opinion correct) views. I agree that naturalisation should not be allowed... my above arguments were for allowing naturalisation in certain cases (since naturalisation is permitted anyways).... Just look at how far FYROM can move into a tournament because of it.... All I said is that since naturalisation is permitted that certain other factors should be considered... (i.e., what kind of connection does the player have with the country he is proposed to play for) and if there is absolutely no connection, then it shouldn't be allowed.