Sabonis play in Euroleague in 2004?

[Nikos6]

Sabonis has a Euroleague RANKING of 26.2 in 28mpg in 2003-04. That is awesome.

How did he do it? Is the Euroleague really that weak of competetion, especially underneath the basket? Sabonis did well in almost every season in the NBA -- he was a great rotational player and starting big to have even in his injured seasons.

But how can he dominate so easily at his age in the league? Is Euroleague really that bad in terms of big man and overall quality of play?

How can guys like Ginobili, Nocioni who played in their mid 20s in the Euroleague have much weaker stats yet play as well or better than Sabonis did in the NBA? They clearly did not have 20+RKG like Sabonis. Maybe they played better defense than Sabonis?

Was Sabonis a great defender in 2003-04?

Anyone have any ideas as to why this is?

Thanks

-Nikos

[Joško Poljak Fan]

in general: Sabonis was damn tall but also damn inteligent along with it.
He just knew how to play the game the way it's played in europe. I believe if it wasn't for that NBA philosophy and all 5 players on court would be considered as an equals, or he'd be a go-to guy, he'd post some great numbers in NBA as well.
...let alone if he'd come to NBA at his prime before the injuries, since than he'd right now be considered as one of the greatest centers ever.

The fact that euro bball is getting robbed every year, with most of talented tall player gone to NBA of course also had something to do with it, not to mention he was a go to guy in his team...

Sabonis is definately a player that will never get the respect he deserves from NBA, because he was not suited for NBA game first of all, and because 99.99% NBA fans failed to see him playing in his prime (in 94/95 watching him with Real Madrid, Jordan, Olajuwon and Drexler were pushed in the second plan, let alone matchup with David Robinson in the 80ies- he was fantastic back than)...

regarding euroleague "being that bad in terms of overall play", I believe Maccabi showed you the opposite last year visiting Toronto and beating them eventhough playing by NBA rules... we'll see about the quality of euroleague afterall when Sixers will face Barcelona or Clippers will face CSKA in about two weeks now...
my honest opinion is that euroleague right now surpasses NBA when we're talking about the fundamentals and tactics and a lot of people would say euroleague is also much more exciting that NBA regular season games...

[qiangdade]

It is easier for big men to have better stats. They just need 15 points, 10 rebounds, 1-2 blocks and some drawn fouls. For a man his size and quality it is not that hard

And yes some of us believe that the euroleague is better and faaar more exciting than the nba

[Zalgirinis]

Was Sabonis a great defender in 2003-04?

Matiz more or less explained everything well. Just to add that Sabonis was a great defender in that season. Usually smaller players from other teams were avoiding to penetrate, because Sabonis was waiting for them in the paint. His presence glued kinda weak Zalgiris perimeter defense, cause they could be sure if players go through them Sabonis will come to help with his big body and long hands.

[Nikos6]

I actually think the Euroleague is a pretty high level of basketball. Sometimes I just don't understand how a player like Sabonis can be so good at his age -- yet players who clearly don't play as well come to the NBA and do well (ala Ginobili, Nocioni, and maybe some others soon....).

Maybe the Euroleague does have higher quality perimeter men then big men? Not that Sabonis probably didn't suit this game better....but still seems odd that he had such a big jump in stats.

[rikhardur]

Sabonis even with all his aches and pains simply wasn't an ordinary player. I guess that explains a lot too. He was that kind of player that could still be a top player at an older age, just like Schmidt and Ortiz.

[rusher]

How did he do it? Is the Euroleague really that weak of competetion, especially underneath the basket? Sabonis did well in almost every season in the NBA -- he was a great rotational player and starting big to have even in his injured seasons.

I think NBA is the best league in the world considering individual skills but isn't if you compare different tactics and strategies cause in Euroleague there isn't in most cases one star who averages 25 ppg like in NBA but there is more teamwork. Sabonis was their star in Euroleague and team was playing the ball to him so he could put up his numbers when in the NBA team was playing more individualistic.
Second, I would say that it's probably true that Euroleague is not a great competition underneath the basket. NBA drafts really rob it- americans have great skilled pg's or sg's so they don't need so much from Europe but in Europe you have very tall players who can even shot 3-pointers and be good in every aspect of the game. And in Europe stay only tall men who aren't as tall or as strong to make it to the NBA. All the dominant centers or young rising stars end up in NBA drafts.

[Nikos6]

In 2002-03 Sabonis played 15.5mpg! And averaged 6ppg!

I understand the NBA is individualistic, but come on. Rasheed Wallace doesn't exactly dominate the ball and Sabonis wasn't being covered by elite PFs every night. The NBA game isn't even that much faster pace wise -- sure the PLAYERS are faster and maybe Sabonis had trouble getting up and down the floor quickly -- but why isn't that a problem in the Euroleague as well? They aren't exactly all slow?

Their is a big difference between playing 16mpg and being very efficient in the NBA and being an MVP type player in the 03-04 Euroleague, especially considering Sabonis was a YEAR OLDER!

Weird. Sabonis even had 10rpg in 28mpg. He was an excellent rebounder in the NBA -- but in the Euroleague he was incredible.

[qiangdade]

I just hope u do indeed wanna hear some reasoning, and not just want/expect us to say that the euroleague is that much worse, for your satisfaction. A similar thing has happened before by another member

[AssAsin]

It is easier for big men to have better stats. They just need 15 points, 10 rebounds, 1-2 blocks and some drawn fouls. For a man his size and quality it is not that hard

And yes some of us believe that the euroleague is better and faaar more exciting than the nba

Completely agree with you...You can see real basketball when you are watching euroleague games but nba is only a show not real basketball except some playoff matches

[qiangdade]

Completely agree with you...You can see real basketball when you are watching euroleague games but nba is only a show not real basketball except some playoff matches

Playing 82 games for a home court advantage that in the playoffs is of no importance whatsoever. The logic behind this system beats me...Not gonna continue cause it is offtopic

[Nikos6]

I just hope u do indeed wanna hear some reasoning, and not just want/expect us to say that the euroleague is that much worse, for your satisfaction. A similar thing has happened before by another member

Not really, but logically I just don't understand it. I happened to like the Euroleague a lot and WISH I could watch alot more international Basketball. I just like comparing players, leagues, and how different players mesh with others etc....

The Sabonis stat line just baffled me.

[kestas]

Sabonis has a Euroleague RANKING of 26.2 in 28mpg in 2003-04. That is awesome.

How did he do it?

his case is somewhat simmilar to Jasikevicius' (though Sabonis was a much better player than Jasikevicius could ever dream to be). anyways, you could see last year, how Jasikevicius, who would be the the best Porshe money can buy if he was a car, was driven by the coach and his club in first gear. sometimes they managed to swithch him to second, but would soon go back to first. or reverse. and after that they were surprised why he had such a dissapointing season. in reality, the style of basketball is THAT different. Sabas in NBA was playing in his 4th gear, imho. at best. in Zalgiris he switched to 6th, because Zalgiris knew how to achieve that and everything else suited it. Blazers didn't need him to be in his sixth gear and i doubt it was even possible. NBA had a "speed limit" put on him. it's like a Ford Taurus with a ~85 miles per hour speed limit I once rode in the US - I could understand this car is capable of some 110 miles per hour at least, but I'm not sure if some Americans did

btw, Tolpaz (Israel based observer (as far as I understand) for NBA.com) once called Sabonis deffense non-existant during that season. this was such a ridiculous statament, - I never look at his articles seriously since then. Sabas was huge deffensively. and bear in mind that he was not the only good center for Zalgiris that season. Zalgiris also had another center in Tanoka Beard, who himself looked like a top-3 center in Euroleague prior to Sabonis' arrival. but compared to Sabonis, athletic and much faster Beard looked primitive and limited. to tell the truth, compared to Sabas all centers in Europe looked primitive and limited.

k

[Nikos6]

Why is Sabonis making every big men look primitive in the EL, but in the NBA he plays 15 mpg in 0203, against the weakest position by in the NBA? I figured that season he just was getting old and was simply excellent but limited physically.

But I just realized something. Euroleague games weren't as frequent as NBA no? One game a week, I guess they had the Lith League as well? But nonethless, Euroleague was once a week, and there were no more than 2 games a week for him no?

Maybe this made him able to play 28mpg in Europe AND shoulder the load on both ends? He still was incredibly efficient in 15mpg, even in 2003 in the NBA.

[kestas]

Why is Sabonis making every big men look primitive in the EL, but in the NBA he plays 15 mpg in 0203, against the weakest position by in the NBA? I figured that season he just was getting old and was simply excellent but limited physically.

But I just realized something. Euroleague games weren't as frequent as NBA no? One game a week, I guess they had the Lith League as well? But nonethless, Euroleague was once a week, and there were no more than 2 games a week for him no?

Maybe this made him able to play 28mpg in Europe AND shoulder the load on both ends? He still was incredibly efficient in 15mpg, even in 2003 in the NBA.

I still think the main reason behind his numbers was that the playing style fitted him much better. European basketball is different from NBA. and everything was built arround him, which was not the case in NBA. of course, having less games and more motivation helped a lot. obviously, he played less in the local league (unless the games were against a certain team named Lietuvos rytas). yet I believe he was much better motivated. he cried in the case of losses and jumped off the bench after each successfull moment - that is when he was on tha bench ) he also played at least a few games with big cold, - he would never ever be allowed to do that in NBA (nor would he want to, imho). he simply told every time, that he's ready to go on court as much as coach wants him to. that way he sometimed would end with 35 or so minutes per game.. and when he had that cold, I think he himself asked coach and others to allow him to play (that's against Olimpija and against CSKA, if I remmember correctly). btw, after he played with cold it got worse and he missed a few weaks, so it probably turned out as a wrong decision afterall.