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ArkadiosV2
05-27-2010, 08:44 PM
.....

goga78
05-27-2010, 11:53 PM
Budgets of Partizan, Cibona, Olimpija and others is for the youth teams as well.

But with a difference, those teams spend more percentage of their budget on their youth teams than Spanish ones.

So get a reality check and stop bitching. If anything Spanish sports clubs are pretty wealthy, even if compared to big economies like England, Germany and France. Who is spending 90m euros for a player? Spanish clubs.

Things have to be put into perspective. Cibona and Olimpija would play in the lower third of the ACB. Partizan in its current position would surely be another story but this team doesn't show always ood results. Three years ago Partizan has played through several seasons full of failures in Europe. While 4.5 mio Euro would be a really good budget in most of European leagues, in Spain it is only enough to try to stay in the ACB. Everything else would be an unexpected bonus. You play a long and complicated season there and with that kind of money our bench will be thin or the overall quality will be low.

pohani komarac
05-28-2010, 01:28 AM
Things have to be put into perspective. Cibona and Olimpija would play in the lower third of the ACB. Partizan in its current position would surely be another story but this team doesn't show always ood results. Three years ago Partizan has played through several seasons full of failures in Europe. While 4.5 mio Euro would be a really good budget in most of European leagues, in Spain it is only enough to try to stay in the ACB. Everything else would be an unexpected bonus. You play a long and complicated season there and with that kind of money our bench will be thin or the overall quality will be low.

and what makes bilbao or cajasol stronger than cibona?

their 2nd team need speeker to anonce result of oly-khimki game to beat cibona

and cibona is just bit weaker than partizan, their this year matches show that. only time they beat us was with miricle shoot over half court

for sure cibona would finish behind some teams like real, barca and caja, but don't overate those acb teams to much

kukulas
05-28-2010, 05:57 AM
and what makes bilbao or cajasol stronger than cibona?

their 2nd team need speeker to anonce result of oly-khimki game to beat cibona

and cibona is just bit weaker than partizan, their this year matches show that. only time they beat us was with miricle shoot over half court

for sure cibona would finish behind some teams like real, barca and caja, but don't overate those acb teams to much

Very true.

Also let's not forget that the team's budget is just a number. It doesn't always reflect a team's true potential. Europe is packed with overpaid, overrated players. Some of them are making money just because they were kicking some serious ass 2-3 years ago and now they're on their way out.

If you had put Maroussi in the ACB they'd easily be in the top 8. Easily.

I think that the recession will help restore balance in the player market and their wages. Seriously.. way too many overpaid players out there.

aitorful
05-28-2010, 06:00 AM
Budgets of Partizan, Cibona, Olimpija and others is for the youth teams as well.

But with a difference, those teams spend more percentage of their budget on their youth teams than Spanish ones.

So get a reality check and stop bitching. If anything Spanish sports clubs are pretty wealthy, even if compared to big economies like England, Germany and France. Who is spending 90m euros for a player? Spanish clubs.

I know that spanish teams are the richers in Europe but I have spoking about Joventut. They play agains other spanish teams and this is the reason because 4,5 are a small budget because most of spanish teams have more money they will be the perhaps the 10º-15º budget in Spain.

aitorful
05-28-2010, 06:24 AM
Very true.

Also let's not forget that the team's budget is just a number. It doesn't always reflect a team's true potential. Europe is packed with overpaid, overrated players. Some of them are making money just because they were kicking some serious ass 2-3 years ago and now they're on their way out.

If you had put Maroussi in the ACB they'd easily be in the top 8. Easily.

I think that the recession will help restore balance in the player market and their wages. Seriously.. way too many overpaid players out there.

Rememberthat Partizan and Cibona plays Eurleague every year lots of players prefers earn less money and plays euroleague. Teams like Bilbao or Cajasol have to overpay players with Euroleague level.

goga78
05-28-2010, 07:46 AM
and what makes bilbao or cajasol stronger than cibona?

their 2nd team need speeker to anonce result of oly-khimki game to beat cibona

and cibona is just bit weaker than partizan, their this year matches show that. only time they beat us was with miricle shoot over half court

for sure cibona would finish behind some teams like real, barca and caja, but don't overate those acb teams to much

They each finished with a respectable record in the strongest league in Europe by far after having played 34 games respectively. Plus, they belong there geographically. There is no need to discuss the Spanish teams and what makes them better. There are for sure teams in Europe that could even compete for the ACB title but they are not playing in this competition, so this discussion is needless.

Yes, Cibona finished second in Adria just because of huge bad luck and huge exuberance (read stupidity) but this is a result of one game in a rather weak competition this year. Nothing that can be compared with a whole season with 34 games against strong opponents.

Otherwise, aitorful already said that the level of international competition they are participating at makes it easier/more difficult for teams to get players for better value. While teams like Cibona get their EL place without any competition at home Cajasol and Bilbao (your examples) have to fight to get into ACB playoffs, not to mention international play.

goga78
05-28-2010, 10:13 AM
Read the previous page Mr. I know it all :rolleyes:

I have read everything including your bias against a ACB team lowering their expectations due to a low budget. Besides, who are you to discuss this matter in such terms?

pohani komarac
05-28-2010, 11:01 AM
Cibona get their EL place without any competition at home Cajasol and Bilbao (your examples) have to fight to get into ACB playoffs, not to mention international play.

Cibona wouldn't even play euroleague if results decidede who will go to euroleague in recent years even if there is no competition;)

and cibona and partizan don't play one game, and bouth regulary loosing from some in such weak competition like nlb. no doubt acb is stronger, but you overate saying cibona would be in lower third wich means behind teams like bilbao and cajasol (actally i'm sure we would finish above unicaja and pamesa, but hey this is to much to say)...right:rolleyes: actally would play in leaga bronze

kukulas
05-28-2010, 11:01 AM
Rememberthat Partizan and Cibona plays Eurleague every year lots of players prefers earn less money and plays euroleague. Teams like Bilbao or Cajasol have to overpay players with Euroleague level.

Well that's their own damn fault.. Bilbao not so much cuz the owner of the team is their agent but something similar was done by russian teams as well and that led to salaries going up the wazoo.. thank god for the recession..

goga78
05-28-2010, 12:41 PM
Someone who is tired to read same posts by different users because they don't bother to read the previous page(s).

Happy?

But you aren't too tired for another reaction. I see.


Well that's their own damn fault.. Bilbao not so much cuz the owner of the team is their agent but something similar was done by russian teams as well and that led to salaries going up the wazoo.. thank god for the recession..

Hate to play to role of defender of Spanish bball clubs interests but it's not okay what you are saying. Since we brought up the matter of teams like Cibona or Partizan, they get their EL spots for granted. They are the richest and strongest basketball clubs in their relatively weak domestic competitions plus they are the top clubs in the Adriatic league. This way or another they will get their EL ticket. Bilbao and Cajasol play in the ACB, which can get four EL tickets. But there are teams with much better basketball schools, a lot more money and fame. It is possible to make the impossible and beat them during the season in one particular game but you probably won't beat them in a series, especially since you have to make the playoffs first. The position for an opening in the international play is thus totally different.

aitorful
05-28-2010, 12:55 PM
Well that's their own damn fault.. Bilbao not so much cuz the owner of the team is their agent but something similar was done by russian teams as well and that led to salaries going up the wazoo.. thank god for the recession..

The agent give to the players differents offerts and they decide what is the better not the agent the only adventage for Bilbao is that he recommends the offert of Bilbao but if the other team pay more the player probably will go to the
other team and not all Bilbao players are from the same agent.

Bilbao and Cajasol are both of the teams with less money prroblems for the recession, especially Bilbao will have a bigger budget next year.

Kwijibo
05-28-2010, 01:09 PM
Budgets of Partizan, Cibona, Olimpija and others is for the youth teams as well.

But with a difference, those teams spend more percentage of their budget on their youth teams than Spanish ones.

So get a reality check and stop bitching. If anything Spanish sports clubs are pretty wealthy, even if compared to big economies like England, Germany and France. Who is spending 90m euros for a player? Spanish clubs.

No. Only Real madrid

Kwijibo
05-28-2010, 01:17 PM
Cibona wouldn't even play euroleague if results decidede who will go to euroleague in recent years even if there is no competition;)

and cibona and partizan don't play one game, and bouth regulary loosing from some in such weak competition like nlb. no doubt acb is stronger, but you overate saying cibona would be in lower third wich means behind teams like bilbao and cajasol (actally i'm sure we would finish above unicaja and pamesa, but hey this is to much to say)...right:rolleyes: actally would play in leaga bronze

Cibona is a worse team than cajasol. Cibona is like Alicante
http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=15&clubcode=CIB&seasoncode=e2009
http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=75&clubcode=CIB&seasoncode=e2009
http://www.acb.com/fichas/LACB54046.php
http://www.acb.com/fichas/LACB54199.php
http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY74002.php

archaz
05-28-2010, 01:19 PM
No. Only Real madrid

Yeah , 40 millions + cabron wasnt ~ 90 millions )))
Especially if Real got that money back from jerseys just in 1 year ...

Kwijibo
05-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Yeah , 40 millions + cabron wasnt ~ 90 millions )))
Especially if Real got that money back from jerseys just in 1 year ...
Etoo? Etoo 15 m (last year contract) +40m = 55
And the second must be a joke. 80% people buy not official jersey

Kwijibo
05-28-2010, 02:13 PM
I am actually. But it doesn't mean I won't do it, like I won't stop reading double posts. Bad thing is that one does't know it's the same post until he actually reads it.

And keep insisting that having a 5m budget is worse than having a 1.5m budget. Maybe one day after you repeat it enough times you will actually believe it yourself too.

I apologise to your beloved team then. Barcelona only spent 69m euros on Ibrahimovic last summer. And the most expensive transfer of all times in 1997, Romario.

No we spent 40 or 45 m + etoo 15m

Kwijibo
05-28-2010, 02:28 PM
Oh you poor guys, you could only afford 60m euros :(

My condolences.
No last year we spent 120 m euros, but madrid 300:eek:. And we can afford 120m euros coz at nou camp there are 100.000 people buying tickets

Picek
05-29-2010, 01:58 PM
Cibona is a worse team than cajasol. Cibona is like Alicante
http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=15&clubcode=CIB&seasoncode=e2009
http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=75&clubcode=CIB&seasoncode=e2009
http://www.acb.com/fichas/LACB54046.php
http://www.acb.com/fichas/LACB54199.php
http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY74002.phpdoes that mean Granada is better then Siena, Olympiakos or Panathinaikos?

Kwijibo
05-29-2010, 02:00 PM
does that mean Granada is better then Siena, Olympiakos or Panathinaikos?

I don't know, but im sure 100% that cajasol is a better team than cibona

Kwijibo
05-29-2010, 02:11 PM
Dude, you have 741 posts, 90% of which are one-liners either making ridiculous arguments, defensing Spain and ACB, provoking Real Madrid fans or just mumblings to make yourself visible after any important, or not so, Barcelona win.

The rest 10% is about football and your avatar in an international basketball forum is about football.

Are you sure you are in the right place?
Do you think that cibona is a better team than cajasol?

Kwijibo
05-29-2010, 02:20 PM
Much better. And most importantly, much more important part of European basketball than 90% of Spanish clubs.

And much better fans, including Picek.

SO cibona is more important tan Tau, Unicaja or Valencia for example?

ShoePack
05-29-2010, 03:14 PM
SO cibona is more important tan Tau, Unicaja or Valencia for example?

Certainly...look,just compare how much success TAU(or Caja Laboral),Valencia(or Pamesa),or even Unicaja had in preceding years,you'll get an idea...Cibona won Euroleague titles,was a part of the greatset european league of all time(ex-yu league,along with Partizan,Crvena Zvezda,Jugoplastika,Olimpija,Bosna...the league which is beyond comparison with today's ACB)...your post is full of nonsence...I'm not defending Cibona,just telling the truth...also,with my post you can see that Partizan is also bigger than those clubs...your league is just the richest,and a whole spanish school of basketball is stolen from Ex-Yu one(...read:Serbian),with the fast-breaks,post-moves,passing,creativity.etc...be thankful on that...

Kwijibo
05-29-2010, 03:38 PM
Certainly...look,just compare how much success TAU(or Caja Laboral),Valencia(or Pamesa),or even Unicaja had in preceding years,you'll get an idea...Cibona won Euroleague titles,was a part of the greatset european league of all time(ex-yu league,along with Partizan,Crvena Zvezda,Jugoplastika,Olimpija,Bosna...the league which is beyond comparison with today's ACB)...your post is full of nonsence...I'm not defending Cibona,just telling the truth...also,with my post you can see that Partizan is also bigger than those clubs...your league is just the richest,and a whole spanish school of basketball is stolen from Ex-Yu one(...read:Serbian),with the fast-breaks,post-moves,passing,creativity.etc...be thankful on that...

Last decade (10 years enough time) ex-yu teams reach 1 f4. Spanish team:
Barça: 4
Tau: 1 final ¿3? f4
Unicaja: 1
So we reach 8 f4 and 1 final (first euroleague year)

Dreamcatcher
05-29-2010, 03:39 PM
Certainly...look,just compare how much success TAU(or Caja Laboral),Valencia(or Pamesa),or even Unicaja had in preceding years,you'll get an idea...Cibona won Euroleague titles,was a part of the greatset european league of all time(ex-yu league,along with Partizan,Crvena Zvezda,Jugoplastika,Olimpija,Bosna...the league which is beyond comparison with today's ACB)...your post is full of nonsence...I'm not defending Cibona,just telling the truth...also,with my post you can see that Partizan is also bigger than those clubs...your league is just the richest,and a whole spanish school of basketball is stolen from Ex-Yu one(...read:Serbian),with the fast-breaks,post-moves,passing,creativity.etc...be thankful on that...

ACB is just the richest? So which league is the strongest in Europe? Greek? Russian?? Italian??? "Telling the truth"...

kukulas
05-29-2010, 04:29 PM
Do you think that cibona is a better team than cajasol?

Yes. Is there a particular reason this team doesn't participate in any european leagues?

Kwijibo
05-29-2010, 04:52 PM
Yes. Is there a particular reason this team doesn't participate in any european leagues?

Last year they didn't reach the play off. This year they're fifth and im speaking about this year not last year

pohani komarac
05-30-2010, 12:49 AM
why bother guys:rolleyes:

pohani komarac
05-30-2010, 01:10 AM
How many EL trophies did Greece, Russia, Israel have in the last decade and how many Spain?

Man, your arguments harm themselves most of the times.

Go on to other forum to talk what you know best, football, because you are clueless about basketball as it seems.

And to answer tour question, yes, Cibona is more than important than Unicaja and Valencia, and equally if not more, important to Caja, which by the way is Top3 losers of EL of all times, alongside Barcelona.

PS: Can you actually put together a normal phrase or even a paragraph? Or is it too much to ask? OK, then anything more than 10 words? Come on, I know that if you tried hard enough you could do it.

it doesn't realy matther who is more inportant or who's better. right now let him have his, my cibona will live forever in all books with all euro trophiys there is:D

unicaja, cajasol, tau etc....let him have how imprtant and better they are now, he wannt say difrent...actually doesn't matter

as always he will hide when his team lose

mybe one day in future will come time when we could just keep our players, nothing more and.......togh we are stll better then cajasol:D even we are bad for our standards:)