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pop84
03-11-2010, 04:41 PM
DVA košarkaška kluba B-1 lige, Sjever Donji Kraljevec i Kotoriba, najprije su izbačeni, a zatim i vraćeni u ligaško natjecanje zbog duga prema Hrvatskom košarkaškom savezu. U doba ekonomske krize i recesije, kada i nogometni prvoligaši grcaju na rubu gladi, ova informacija ostala bi na margini da uzrok izbacivanja nije dug koji je nastao zbog neplaćanja pretplate za časopis Hrvatska košarka.

Zapravo se ne radi niti o pretplati jer klubovi tvrde da im je sporni časopis prisilno nametnut, a da je naplata pretplate ustvari čisto reketarenje. Naime, klubovi A i B razreda su obavezni, uz godišnju kotizaciju, plaćati i 15 do 20 pretplata za HKS-ov mjesečnik što ih košta gotovo 4000 kuna na godišnjoj osnovi. Ukoliko naravno žele nastupati u natjecanjima HKS-a.

"Savez bez ikakve osnove šalje časopis"

Predsjednik Donjeg Kraljevca, Tihomir Horvat, u razgovoru za Index objasnio je kako je došlo do problema:

"Hrvatski košarkaški savez je prije godinu i pol dana krenuo u izdavanje časopisa i distribuciju u slobodnoj prodaji. No, kako prodaja nije išla niti približno očekivanjima, Savez se dosjetio kako spasiti časopis i to preko kičme hrvatskih košarkaških klubova", objašnjava nam u jednom dahu uzrujani Horvat i dodaje:

"Bez ikakvog dogovora ili objašnjenja su nam počeli slati sporni časopis u nakladi od 15 primjeraka mjesečno, kao i fakture za isti. Mi kao mali, amaterski klub koji se financira isključivo na entuzijastičkoj osnovni taj financijski teret nismo mogli, niti smo htjeli podnositi, stoga smo uredno vraćali časopis, kao i fakture."

"Nismo mi HKS-ovi trgovački putnici"

Horvat ističe dvije vrlo bitne stvari.

"Ne postoji nikakav službeni dokument prema kojem smo obavezni plaćati pretplatu. Nekoliko smo puta HKS-u poslali zamolbu da nam predoče dokument prema kojem bi to bili obavezni, no nikada nismo dobili odgovor. Ta osnova jednostavno ne postoji. Istina je, Udruga prvoligaša donijela je takvu odluku, no ona se odnosi isključivo na A razred, a mi smo B liga", ističe predsjednik Donjeg Kraljevca i dodaje:

"Zanimljivo je i što točno piše na fakturama. U opisu stoji 'obračun prodaje časopisa Hrvatska košarka' što faktički znači da smo obavezni za njih 'dilati' taj magazin. Oni su nas ne pitajući prisilili da im prodajemo časopis, ubiremo novac i na koncu ga proslijedimo. Kao da smo njihovi trgovački putnici."

"I suce se reketari"

Prema Horvatovim riječima, HKS ne reketari samo klubove, već i svoje suce.

"Nismo samo mi robovi tog časopisa. Možete provjeriti kod svakog suca da su i oni prisiljeni prodavati časopis. Svaki sudac na A listi obavezan je kupiti jednu pretplatu i mjesečno prodati još pet komada. Ukoliko to ne uspije, HKS ga ne želi staviti na listu. Jedan sudac mi je priznao da su mu iz Zagreba poručili, ako ne prodaješ časopis, nećeš niti suditi."

Slična poruka je stigla i Horvatu kada je kontaktirao predsjednika Saveza Danka Radića i tajnika Željka Drakšića.

"Kada sam Drakšiću objasnio da HKS-u osim za sporni časopis nismo dužni niti jednu lipu za što imamo i službeno očitovanje Saveza, kao i da je ta cifra preveliko opterećenje za jedan amaterski klub, on je rekao da smo u pravu. No, rekao mi je direktno da nećemo igrati košarku, ako ne budemo kupovali časopis. Na koncu smo suspendirani iz natjecanja zbog duga od 4050 kuna", otkriva Horvat koji dodaje da je u istoj situaciji još nekolicina klubova.

"Nismo u pitanju samo mi i Kotoriba, još nekoliko klubova je odlučilo zajednički protestirati protiv ovog reketa. No, zbog ogromnog pritiska iz Košarkaškog saveza Varaždinske županije i povjerenika natjecanja Zorana Košćaka neki su klubovi pristali platiti nekoliko brojeva kako ne bi bili izbačeni iz natjecanja."

Horvat na kraju zaključuje:

"Najvjerojatnije zbog pritiska medija, ali i zbog našeg pisma Hrvatskom olimpijskom odboru čija nam je pravna služba potvrdila da po nikakvoj osnovni nismo obavezni kupovati časopis, HKS nas je u četvrtak vratio u natjecanje. Kao niti kada su nas suspendirali, niti ovaj put nije bilo nikakvog objašnjenja. No, mi i dalje tražimo brisanje spornog duga koji ne planiramo platiti", rekao nam je predsjednik Donjeg Kraljevca.

Radić: Bune se oni koji ionako nemaju uvjete za nastupaju

Druga strana, odnosno vrh HKS-a, ima svoju verziju priče koja se dijametralno razlikuje od ove koju nam je iznio Tihomir Horvat. Prema riječima predsjednika Danka Radića u cijeloj priči nema ništa sporno.

"Taj časopis nije naš, nego je njihov - od klubova. To je jedina tiskovina u kojoj se može pročitati nešto o klubovima, o samim natjecanjima, o tablicama i neki detalji kojih nema nigdje drugdje", rekao je Radić za Index braneći se od optužbe da Savez reketari klubove.

"Ne ucjenjujemo mi njih, nego ucjenjuju oni nas. Radi se o klubovima koji ne mogu igrati i koji nemaju uvjete za nastupanje pa se ovako izvlače. Ako oni tako misle, ne moraju plaćati, ali ne moraju niti igrati košarku. Apsolutno me takav stav ne zanima. Odreći se takvog časopisa je van svake pameti."

Radić tvrdi da je HKS smanjio neke druge stavke da bi klubovima omogućio "njihov" bilten, a da mu nije jasno kako neki klub zna koliki dio kotizacije otpada na sporni časopis, a koliko na ostatak troškova.

"Od kuda oni znaju koji je dio cijene za kotizaciju, a koliko za časopis, kada je sveukupna cifra i jedno i drugo. Tu cifru plaćaju svi, apsolutno sve lige i taj je list napravljen zbog njih. Cifra za magazin je sastavni dio čitave kotizacije, nije to ništa separativno. Taj časopis je u odnosu na cijelu cifru skoro pa gratis, on praktički nema cijene", zaključio je Radić.



Drakšić: Probleme radi samo nekolicina klubova

Kontaktirali smo i tajnika HKS-a Željka Drakšića koji je bio puno rječitiji. No, niti on ne vidi ništa sporno u suspenziji klubova zbog neplaćanja pretplate za časopis.

"Smatram da je cifra koja otpada na sam časopis Hrvatska košarka, a koju su klubovi obvezni platiti, minorna u odnosu na sve ostale troškove. Sve je vrlo jednostavno, klubovi moraju poštovati pravila HKS-a, a ako je taj dio kotizacije obvezan, onda ga moraju plaćati", objašnjava Drakšić i dodaje:

"Nije mi jasno kako 170 klubova može plaćati pretplate, a njih pet ili sedam ne može. I još se k tome radi o klubovima iz najbogatije hrvatske županije. Ista pravila vrijede za sve, a u cijeloj priči nitko tu ne zarađuje. Novac koji se skupi dostatan je samo da se pokriju troškovi izdavanja, a od njega žive jedino tri novinara honorarca ."

I Drakšić smatra da je časopis namijenjen klubovima, a ne Savezu.

"U današnje doba košarka je vrlo malo ili nikako zastupljena u medijima, a posebno niže lige o kojima gotovo nikada nema niti riječ u novinama ili na televiziji. Upravo je to bio razlog pokretanja ovog mjesečnika. To je tiskovina za sve košarkaše, koji nije zapravo namijenjen za prodaju, nego kao pomoć Savezu i klubovima. Kada kutija cigareta košta 20 kuna, smatram da cijena od 15 kuna po kojoj ga klubovi dobivaju nije pretjerana. Još jednom ponavljam, ako gotovo 200 klubova nema problema, zašto se onda neki drugi bune", zaključuje Drakšić.


Please don,t delete .someone who knows some English , translates it is very interesting .Thanks ,pop84

pohani komarac
03-11-2010, 11:41 PM
Two basketball team B-1 League, Lower North Kraljevac Kotoriba, you were expelled, and then returned to the league competition for the long-Croatian Basketball Federation. At a time of economic crisis and recession, when the football league and sob on the verge of starvation, this information would remain on the margins that launch is not the cause of debt that was created for non-payment of subscriptions for the Journal of Croatian basketball.

Actually this is not a subscription or clubs because they claim that the disputed Journal forcibly imposed, and that charges a subscription reketarenje really clean. Specifically, centers A and B grades are required, with an annual fee, and pay 15 to 20 subscriptions to CBF's monthly cost them nearly 4,000 kuna on an annual basis. If you want to of course compete in competitions HKS.

"Union without any basis sends journal

President of Lower Kraljevac, Tihomir Horvat, in an interview with Index explained that there was a problem:

"Croatian Basketball Federation has been a year and a half went in the magazine publishing and distribution in the free market. But that sale has not gone or nearly expectations, the Alliance is thought to save the magazine and to the spine through the Croatian basketball teams," explains to us in one breath Horvat upset and adds:

"Without any agreement or explanations we began to send the controversial magazine circulation of 15 copies per month, and invoices for the same. We as a small amateur club, which is funded solely on entuzijastičkoj basic financial burden that we could not, or we wanted to submit, so We duly returned the magazine, as well as invoices.

"We are not CBF's commercial travelers"

Horvat says two very important things.

"There is no official document to which we are required to pay a subscription. A few times we HKS in the request sent to us to produce a document which would be required, but never received a response. The base simply does not exist. The truth is, the association adopted league such a decision, but it applies only to class A and B leagues we are, "said President Kraljevac Donji and adds:

"It is interesting, and exactly what it says on the invoices. The description is 'bill of sale Croatia basketball magazines' which actually means that we are obliged to them 'dilati' the magazine. They are asking us not force them to sell the magazine, is collecting money and eventually it forward. As we are trading their passengers. "

And judges are reketari "

According Horvatovim words, HKS reketari not only clubs, but their judges.

"We did not we just slaves of the magazine. You can check with any judge that they were forced to sell the magazine. Each judge on the A list is required to purchase a monthly subscription and sold five pieces. If this fails, the CBF did not want to put this . A judge me admitted that he sent a message from Zagreb, if you do not sell the magazine, you will not even try. "

A similar message was received and Horvat, when he contacted the president of the League of Danka Radić and Secretary Zeljko Drakšića.

"When I explained that Drakšiću HKS except for the controversial magazine shall have no obligation nor a cent of what we have and official declaration of the League, and that this figure is too high load for an amateur club, he said that we were right. But he I direct that we will not play basketball, if we do not buy the magazine. In the end, we suspended from the competition because of the long 4050 kuna ", reveals Horvat who adds that in the same situation some other clubs.

"We are concerned only we Kotoriba, several teams decided to jointly protest against this racket. However, due to enormous pressure from the Basketball Association of Varaždin County Commissioners and the competition Zoran Košćak some clubs agreed to pay a few numbers that would not be expelled from the competition. "

Horvat finally concludes:

"Probably because of pressure from the media, but also because of our letter to Croatian Olympic Committee which is our legal department confirmed by any kind of base we required to buy the magazine, HKS us on Thursday returned to competition. As if we were not suspended, nor this time was not no explanation. However, we continue to seek to delete the disputed debt does not plan to pay, "said the president of the Lower Kraljevac.

Radic: Buna those who already have the conditions for acting

The other side, or top HKS, has its own version of the story that is completely different from this that we said Tihomir Horvat. According to the president of Danka Radić in the story there is nothing controversial.

"This magazine is not ours, but their - from the clubs. This is the only newspaper in which you can read something about the clubs, the competitions themselves, the tables and some details which can not be anywhere else," said Radic Index for defending themselves from charges reketari the League clubs.

"I do not blackmailing them, and they blackmail us. This is a club that can play and who do not have the conditions for the onset and thus draw. If they think so, I do not have to pay, but do not have or play basketball. Absolutely me such an attitude not interested. Reno is such a magazine is beyond reasoning. "

Radic said that the CBF decreased some other items that clubs provide "their" newsletter, and that it is not clear how a team knows how much of the registration fee goes to the controversial magazine, and how the rest of the cost.

"Where they know which part of the cost for registration fee and how much for the magazine, when the overall figure both. This figure pay all, absolutely all the leagues and the list is created for them. Cifra magazine is an integral part of the entire fee , it's nothing separativno. This magazine is in relation to the whole figure almost free of charge, on virtually no cost, "concluded Radic.



Drakšić: problem is just a handful of clubs

We also contacted the Secretary HKS Zeljko Drakšića was much rječitiji. No, no he did not see anything controversial in suspension due to non-payment of subscription clubs for the magazine.

"I think that the figure which goes to I Journal of Croatian basketball, and that clubs are obliged to pay, minor compared to all other charges. Everything is very simply, centers must comply with the rules of CBF-A, and if that part of the fee required, then it must pay, "explains Drakšić and adds:

"It is not clear to me that 170 teams can pay subscriptions, and five or seven can not. And the addition to the richest clubs from Croatian counties. The same rules apply to all, and the whole story, one that does not earn. The money is expensive sufficient only to cover the costs of publishing, and since he lived only three journalists honorarca.

I Drakšić considers that the journal is intended for clubs, not the Alliance

Thi time I used google translator:D

pop84
03-12-2010, 12:34 AM
Two basketball team B-1 League, Lower North Kraljevac Kotoriba, you were expelled, and then returned to the league competition for the long-Croatian Basketball Federation. At a time of economic crisis and recession, when the football league and sob on the verge of starvation, this information would remain on the margins that launch is not the cause of debt that was created for non-payment of subscriptions for the Journal of Croatian basketball.

Actually this is not a subscription or clubs because they claim that the disputed Journal forcibly imposed, and that charges a subscription reketarenje really clean. Specifically, centers A and B grades are required, with an annual fee, and pay 15 to 20 subscriptions to CBF's monthly cost them nearly 4,000 kuna on an annual basis. If you want to of course compete in competitions HKS.

"Union without any basis sends journal

President of Lower Kraljevac, Tihomir Horvat, in an interview with Index explained that there was a problem:

"Croatian Basketball Federation has been a year and a half went in the magazine publishing and distribution in the free market. But that sale has not gone or nearly expectations, the Alliance is thought to save the magazine and to the spine through the Croatian basketball teams," explains to us in one breath Horvat upset and adds:

"Without any agreement or explanations we began to send the controversial magazine circulation of 15 copies per month, and invoices for the same. We as a small amateur club, which is funded solely on entuzijastičkoj basic financial burden that we could not, or we wanted to submit, so We duly returned the magazine, as well as invoices.

"We are not CBF's commercial travelers"

Horvat says two very important things.

"There is no official document to which we are required to pay a subscription. A few times we HKS in the request sent to us to produce a document which would be required, but never received a response. The base simply does not exist. The truth is, the association adopted league such a decision, but it applies only to class A and B leagues we are, "said President Kraljevac Donji and adds:

"It is interesting, and exactly what it says on the invoices. The description is 'bill of sale Croatia basketball magazines' which actually means that we are obliged to them 'dilati' the magazine. They are asking us not force them to sell the magazine, is collecting money and eventually it forward. As we are trading their passengers. "

And judges are reketari "

According Horvatovim words, HKS reketari not only clubs, but their judges.

"We did not we just slaves of the magazine. You can check with any judge that they were forced to sell the magazine. Each judge on the A list is required to purchase a monthly subscription and sold five pieces. If this fails, the CBF did not want to put this . A judge me admitted that he sent a message from Zagreb, if you do not sell the magazine, you will not even try. "

A similar message was received and Horvat, when he contacted the president of the League of Danka Radić and Secretary Zeljko Drakšića.

"When I explained that Drakšiću HKS except for the controversial magazine shall have no obligation nor a cent of what we have and official declaration of the League, and that this figure is too high load for an amateur club, he said that we were right. But he I direct that we will not play basketball, if we do not buy the magazine. In the end, we suspended from the competition because of the long 4050 kuna ", reveals Horvat who adds that in the same situation some other clubs.

"We are concerned only we Kotoriba, several teams decided to jointly protest against this racket. However, due to enormous pressure from the Basketball Association of Varaždin County Commissioners and the competition Zoran Košćak some clubs agreed to pay a few numbers that would not be expelled from the competition. "

Horvat finally concludes:

"Probably because of pressure from the media, but also because of our letter to Croatian Olympic Committee which is our legal department confirmed by any kind of base we required to buy the magazine, HKS us on Thursday returned to competition. As if we were not suspended, nor this time was not no explanation. However, we continue to seek to delete the disputed debt does not plan to pay, "said the president of the Lower Kraljevac.

Radic: Buna those who already have the conditions for acting

The other side, or top HKS, has its own version of the story that is completely different from this that we said Tihomir Horvat. According to the president of Danka Radić in the story there is nothing controversial.

"This magazine is not ours, but their - from the clubs. This is the only newspaper in which you can read something about the clubs, the competitions themselves, the tables and some details which can not be anywhere else," said Radic Index for defending themselves from charges reketari the League clubs.

"I do not blackmailing them, and they blackmail us. This is a club that can play and who do not have the conditions for the onset and thus draw. If they think so, I do not have to pay, but do not have or play basketball. Absolutely me such an attitude not interested. Reno is such a magazine is beyond reasoning. "

Radic said that the CBF decreased some other items that clubs provide "their" newsletter, and that it is not clear how a team knows how much of the registration fee goes to the controversial magazine, and how the rest of the cost.

"Where they know which part of the cost for registration fee and how much for the magazine, when the overall figure both. This figure pay all, absolutely all the leagues and the list is created for them. Cifra magazine is an integral part of the entire fee , it's nothing separativno. This magazine is in relation to the whole figure almost free of charge, on virtually no cost, "concluded Radic.



Drakšić: problem is just a handful of clubs

We also contacted the Secretary HKS Zeljko Drakšića was much rječitiji. No, no he did not see anything controversial in suspension due to non-payment of subscription clubs for the magazine.

"I think that the figure which goes to I Journal of Croatian basketball, and that clubs are obliged to pay, minor compared to all other charges. Everything is very simply, centers must comply with the rules of CBF-A, and if that part of the fee required, then it must pay, "explains Drakšić and adds:

"It is not clear to me that 170 teams can pay subscriptions, and five or seven can not. And the addition to the richest clubs from Croatian counties. The same rules apply to all, and the whole story, one that does not earn. The money is expensive sufficient only to cover the costs of publishing, and since he lived only three journalists honorarca.

I Drakšić considers that the journal is intended for clubs, not the Alliance

Thi time I used google translator:D

Tysone , je si to ti ?:eek:

pohani komarac
03-12-2010, 01:08 AM
Tysone , je si to ti ?:eek:

yes. I used google translator, I don't have mental power to translate whole post:)

You have something in your PM

pop84
03-12-2010, 10:18 AM
sorry my next text will be in english