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Your opinion on Rebuilding of Maccabi. An Era's End or the Start of a New One?

  • Thread starter Thread starter FanBoy2
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FanBoy2

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(First sorry for the few bad parts of english here :confused: ).
Lo all.
Since the EL season ended(congratz to CSKA fans and club),Do you think this marks the end of an Era for maccabi?
The team won 3 Euro titles over the past 6 years(Superleague 01,EL04-05).
They made it to the F4, But this year the team looked tired,there main stars couldnt come close to CSKA players.Baston missing easy under the basket shots,Sharp couldnt hit a single 3pt,Will losing balls like crazy and above all Vujcic looking limited even through most of the season.
Pini wants to leave,and a big note that all of europe already know and learned maccabis play book after the past few years.
Its clearly not working no more,the IL media knows it, and even the fans know it.
I do belive it the end of an Era.
From what Ive read at one.co.il(Israel sports portal)there are thoughts of a rebuilt to the team and even pini said it must be done.
What do you think?should maccabi give up on few of its players for new ones?
 
Why don't you open this topic in Isreali theard?

Edit: moved - Thanks, Stuart
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rebuilding doesn't mean to destroy all good things!

Rebuilding doesn't mean to destroy all good things!

Anyway, the basis of MTA proved itself as very good. No doubt, we have to change some things in the team, but let's calm down first! I mean it's very easy to destroy good team and to begin building of new one, but let's make it very carefully.:cool:
 
I am not sure about the contract situation in TA, but I've read in Croatian media that Gershon announced his departure even before the F4 tournament, changing as succesfull coach as Pini could be the the reason for "new era itself.

Rebuilding the team just because they ended up 2nd (!!!) after great performance of CSKA would imo make no sense... Solomon might not be the ideal PG, as far as I've read most of Maccabi fans weren't that happy with Arnold, a replacement is needed for Sharp. But if Maccabi manages to keep Vujcic, Parker, Baston and Burstein I wouldn't call any changes a rebuilding really... I mostdefinately wouldn't change any of those four...
 
thing is - the team didn't look as good as it was last years. it's not just the losses but also the way it played. gershon announced leaving - and though he's a great coach i'm happy with it because i don't like him it all.
thing is - maccabi has to do some changes. comes a time when your roster just needs to be changed. this year maccabi was over the peak and it was clear to anyone who watched the team for the past 3 years.
parker and baston both have contracts (personally i'd let the second go if he didn't have one). i'm satisifed with arnold even more than i were with bluthental (ruomrs has it that he's about to sign) and thomas. halperin is most likely to come back and i'd go with a bold decision of starting him - not signing an american or european pg (but signing an israeli back up such as dror hajaj of aek) and saving the money for either signing a 5 or signing a pg later that season if it doesn't work (though i know it's not that simple).
burstein (even more than vujcic) is likely (the way i see it) to leave and that will be a problem - losing a verstile player who can play 1-2-3. in that case i might even suggest to stick with solomon as a 2 and start with halperin, solomon and parker (as difficult as it might be).
 
Maccabis over pick was due to them trying to be a gr8 offensive team like that of the last 2 years.
But they lose to many balls and easy match ups cuse of there lack at the PG position.
So I fail to see how Solomon will help.
Becuse Vujcic is likely to leave,and lets tell the truth he was bad this season and looks like he wants to refresh the air,It can be a realy good deal to let him go(even if he is a very good player) and bring a Deffensive Center(surprise but there are many better than him at the position).
Letting go of Solomon will allow to bring a gr8 true PG,and you have a gr8 balance of a offense/defensive team.
Or they put more money than there 12M,and keep solomon as a sub,and make there bench deeper.
And they can let go of some US players and bring europen ones also.
as far as i see it,this is what id keep from this team:
C- ???
PF-Baston(may get to foul out fast,but still gr8)
SF-Parker(gr8 player)
SG-Halprin(gr8 gurad,but not a true PG-hes considered to be better than Tal and i agree,so if Tal is out he should be the starter)
PG-?????

If they can bring David Vanterpool and PABLO PRIGIONI,it can be gr8 as Arnold can start at the C position.

But a true PG is needed.
 
come on man.
1. i won't let nicola go that easily. talented big-men are hard to get and people are speaking as if it's easy or cheap to sign a new guy who is as talented and as team-player as nicola. nicola suffered a lot from defending big-guys - i say let's bring some true 5 (you said defensive-oriented - i agree) so that nicola would be able to play at least some minutes as for. these kind of players are easier to find and less expensive.
2. to make clear the solomon issue. i fear american guneers. i feard solomon too but the guy proved to play in a very mature way. when maccabi lost it was in a large part due to the defense the other teams played against the vujcic-baston combination (and vujcic as a low-post passer in general) it wasn't solomon who made maccabi look good although a play-maker similar to sharas would have play better offense even when the mentioned combination got stuck. now - i fear the unknown and i think solomon proved to be great player in some espects. i say take the ball out of his hands (and put it in halperin's hands - not a true PG but i think he'll do good) but keep his great defense and ability to create his own points.
3. let's put a side players who are both under contract and play for top teams. tau, cska, malaga, pao and so on when let their players leave for maccabi (or to any other top teams).
 
ziv said:
come on man.
1. i won't let nicola go that easily.
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I agree with ya hes good player,i said it above.
But if youll read one.co.il this morning,nicola is asking 2M euro a seaosn.
Maccabi is known to never pay this amount of money to anyone,not even Sharas whom with all due respacet(even when there positions are diffranet)was far better than nicola.
Now its maccabis time to actully do things right and bring a bigger raising star for around 1M euro,and if they take out Salomon(I agree is good player but comon he sucks as a PG big time),they will have a gr8 chance to take hes 500,000 Euro and bring a good PG also.
Maccabi cant stay with the same built up no more,many euro teams already know there play style.
And i still must say the truth on my mind,and its that Arnold is better than Vujcic this season,so he can replace him not badly at all.
On the loss of 1 player on a team that didnt prove itself(even if they got to the finals agree with me this season they sucked at team play),can only be good thing.
 
no doubt - maccabi shouldn't pay 2 mio. i said in the past my limit for nicola is 1.5.
now sharas didn't leave because of the money - on the contrarty in his first season in maccabi where he arrived as the EC mvp (but signed before the it) he earned reletavely low salary i think it was about 700. so anyway - sharas is not a good example, if you asked me how much would i be willing to pay i'd say about the same as nicola 1.2-1.5 but anyway - he would have got higher offers and unlike nicola he would have gone back to barcelona in no time. i think nicola can get maccabi to pay him 1.5 (on a 3 year contract) and that's his major goal.
now - paying 1 mio is a lot - who do you suggest? darjus lavrinovic? kaya peker? who? name a player - paying such big money means you have to bring a proven player. vazquez kind of players for this amount of money is not what maccabi is looking for. beside - i agree that nicola sucked but i offered a way i honstly think should make him better. giving him up means looking for a new big-guy who is a franchise player and can pass the ball - this is very rare.
again - for the pg. as i said i don't like solomon myself but your cost should always be checked alternativly. who's gonna replace him? all of the players i can think of (and those i can't but only about their general origin. i.e. nba, ncaa, smaller european leagues) they are all a gamble. which maccabi would fear to take. i'd prefer taking the bet by playing halperin as a starting point guard and saving solomon as 2 next to him (that's similar to what hapoel did with shefer and solomon) and if you'd have to sign a new big-guy it means making 2 changes in the starting 5 and not 3 which could be signficent.
 
I agree with all ur saying about the money issue,but ive never stated Sharas left cuse of money,i just stated he left.
you cant play a europen basketball style without a PG or a Strong deffansive team.
Maccabi doesnt have none of them.
I also stated its an end of an era,cuse offense is no longer an issue like it was the past 2 years when maccabi played with Sharas.
That team was the only team in EL history to score 90+ PPG...and i still dare to say was the best in europen history cuse of what they did in the finals of 04(44 diffrance will likely never be done again),and 05(they deafted CSKA which didnt loose any game in europe up until than).
But now a new CSKA showed you win with DEFFANCE.
look at maccabi at the IL league to see how bad they are,they have the worset league season since they ages,in europe they came to the f4 with luck and hard road and they can barely finish 1 normal team play.
Its easy to see why a PG is needed than,and why a strong deffasive Center is also needed.
Vujcic is no longer a main issue and if maccabi can bring a gr8 deffansive Center than they better off without him(AGAIN NOT TO SAY HES BAD,FAR FROM IT).
Also Solomon i dont see a reason why he should stay,he proved again how unstable he is,and hes ball losses are a big LOL for a basketball player who claims is Europes best Guard(thats what he stated in the IL press)...give me a brake that guy the best PG?hes far from a PG more of a selfish SG.
Also Halprin is far better player than Tal,so I think they should bring him back if Tal will wish to leave.
And bringing back David B,would be gr8...hes a pure shooter and better at 3pt and FG % than Sharp even.
Pini sucked at making a strong team to cover the lose of Sharas and a deep bench with Thomas.
 
ok. so i completly disagree with you and the reasons were well explained.
i said - i want solomon as a sceond guard an you're saying he's not a point guard. have you read my post?!
defensive center (for ex. javtokas) means no one who can create points beside parker - baston is very limited in creating it himself. helperin is at least questionable and the guard is unknown and as i said he'll be at least a bet.
saying helperin is better than tal is a bold statment. i think burstein is wat under-rated in maccabi. his defense, his taking a step back when needed, his top quality finish (jump shoot or lay-ups and that's not obvious - the biggest problem for israelis playing highest levels is bringing their abilites against 2.12 centers and much more athletic defenders), his smart game - are all there. i won't give him up that easily and i won't say (espciealy after watching only 2 of helperin games this season myself) that helperin is better than him.
 
If you saw yeasterdays maccabi game,youll the remark,this team sucks this season big time.
And if your remmber or not, youll notice it was more than 10 years before maccabi was so weak IL league.
a 70 point game against a weak IL league opponent?give me a brake.
Its easy and safe to see this team is bad from built up.
I didnt say Tal is bad,I said that he wishes to leave as far as from what im reading,he and halprin are not in the same position.
But if Tal will leave,Halprin can easly take hes place...he gave a gr8 year in EL,a team Tal never gave in terms of AVG and leadership.
Also Halprin got invaited to NBA summer league,and maybe be picked in the drafet(small chances)...also hes brought IL youth team to Euro chapionship final.
Tal never did that.
enough said to make sure Halprin is isreals next big thing.

Again its not to say Tal sucks,or anyone.
And lol how the hell do u wish Solomon stay on the bench as a sub?as a 2nd guard?
Hell will freeze if Salomon will actully play seconed tune.
And there are FAAARRRR better players than this ego player...maccabi cant play as a team...a rebuilt is a must.
 
Yesterday, it was another humiliation day of Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israeli league. We had lost game against small team Maccabi Rishon LZ (and it was second loss to Rishon this season and 4th lose in Israeli league). MTA was playing really bad: Vujcic 17 pt., Burshtein 16, Solomon 11...Baston 6 pt.:eek: , Parker 4 pt.:eek:

On the picture the fan of Rishon who came with Russian flag to remind the yellows about Prague..
215097-5.gif
 
Arik said:
Yesterday, it was another humiliation day of Maccabi Tel Aviv in Israeli league. We had lost game against small team Maccabi Rishon LZ (and it was second loss to Rishon this season and 4th lose in Israeli league).
Click to expand...
Thank you, you took the words out of my mouth :)
 
FanBoy said:
If you saw yeasterdays maccabi game,youll the remark,this team sucks this season big time.
And if your remmber or not, youll notice it was more than 10 years before maccabi was so weak IL league.
a 70 point game against a weak IL league opponent?give me a brake.
Its easy and safe to see this team is bad from built up.
I didnt say Tal is bad,I said that he wishes to leave as far as from what im reading,he and halprin are not in the same position.
But if Tal will leave,Halprin can easly take hes place...he gave a gr8 year in EL,a team Tal never gave in terms of AVG and leadership.
Also Halprin got invaited to NBA summer league,and maybe be picked in the drafet(small chances)...also hes brought IL youth team to Euro chapionship final.
Tal never did that.
enough said to make sure Halprin is isreals next big thing.

Again its not to say Tal sucks,or anyone.
And lol how the hell do u wish Solomon stay on the bench as a sub?as a 2nd guard?
Hell will freeze if Salomon will actully play seconed tune.
And there are FAAARRRR better players than this ego player...maccabi cant play as a team...a rebuilt is a must.
Click to expand...
nope - no cables so i havn't seen the game. but to be honest it's nothing. it's not even a simptum. it's the pinin gershon way - just to remind you that david baltt has way better record in israel and he's considered (rightly so) as half the coach gershon is. this year we have these cup finals so to bo honest again - i won't be surprised nor concerned if maccabi will lose the title.
saying halperin having shown leadrship this year is far from being right - according to what i've read here. he might be a good player (to be exact not a replacment to tal who can play 1-2-3 and proved to be decent defender against both fast american guards and taller swingmen) but to say that i'm sure he'll be a good replacment?! give me a break. i have great belief in him. i think he's more talented than tal but at least for the first year i don't think he'll be as good as tal was.
now - to sum it up - i realy didn't like the way the team played this year. i published my concerns here and elsewhere. i think a change is a must (and it was a must in the last summer as well) but shaking the system too much is just not the way. i believe tal will leave and i agree that halperin should start. among vujcic and solomon i prefer signing the second (along with a decent center as explained above) but if it won't happen (very likely the way i see it) i won't rush into cutting solomon espcially not according to your offer of signing a defensive center instead of vujcic - which probably leaves parker and 2 un-known/proven players as halperin and god-knows-who as players who are able to create their own points. i won't count on bluthental. i never liked this player and realy think arnold is atm a better player for maccabi with better post-up skills not less of an outside shooting (he just shoots less but i don't think he hit less) and espcially not with the bluthental style of play we witnessed in maccabi.
 
I fail to see how if you only change two players will shake the system?
Parker stays,Baston stays,Arnold stays,Sharp stays...I only stated 3 players that 2 of them will leave anyway(Katz-who is one of maccabis owners stated 2M euro is a LOL for vujcic at one.co.il portal).
As for Tal he wishes to leave i assume.
Salomon what good will this ego dripping ball losing but skilled he is skilled but hes bad for maccabi do?
And at 85% of the cases maccabi never sings an unkwon player at major rule.
And just to remind Maccabi fans,Halprin was far better than Tal at the EL and he was europes under 21 championship leading PPG...two times,and brought IL to the finals something Tal never did...not to say TAL ISNT A GOOD PLAYER but facts of life speaks from themselfs...maccabi did wrong to leave him behind.
 
you're speaking about replacing 3/5 of the starting 5 and basiclly replacing the main factor for baston points which means it more like 3.5/5 (no one know how baston will play without nicola or any other good passing-center on his side). that's a huge change. arnold and sharp (who isn't getting young though he had a great season) are both coming off the bench - you could've mentioned sasson and green too but that's not the issue - the issue is the leading players and you offer to replace most of the starting 5.
i dion't know who would you call a known player cause parker, baston, huffman not to mention goree and lewis were all a bet, and even proven players such as udrih and besok are considered as failures in maccabi. beside sharas and somewhat of mcdonald i don't remember maccabi signing a proven player who actually preformed well in maccabi.
as for halperin - i recall burstein being the best the leader for the u20 team who actually did make it the EC finals. not by himself but defently the best and the leader of the team. btw - the 2000 championship was much harder when countries actually sent their best players to the EC. and beside what does it mean - domen lorbek beat israel in that finals and he had a nice season playing for helios - should he be a starter for maccabi?
the least i'm asking is to acknowledge the difference between a proven player in the top european level to a non-proven player in such levels. that's all. when you're gonna do a lot of changes anyway keeping players who will contribute to stability of the system has some added value.
 
It seems that 1 player already left so no point talking about him :(
According to one.co.il(il sports portal),they state the spainsh sports newspaper the Marca...Vujcic singned in Real Madrid.
This can be romur or not,but Im sorry i do pray hell leave,so maccabi can get a high profilic DEFFANSIVE CENTER which they needed since day 1.
Vujcic is very limited in deffance and besides 4 games this year(AND YES HES A GR8 PLAYER I KNOW)...he sucked.

And as for halprin its your opinion but most IL actully think he is the biggeset Talnet since Katas.
And for that i agree he scores and passes better than Tal...and was europe championship 2 times Scoring leader...call it as it is.
 
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