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Turkish Prospects

  • Thread starter Thread starter Levenspiel2
  • Start date Start date
Who is the star right now? Nobody. No player carry this team on his own. You are already proving my point. In the past, we at least had one player that is labelled as the leader of the team. Okur, Erdenay, Kutluay, Türkcan, Aşık or like or not Türkoğlu were all leaders and arguably stars in basketball world. We got one Eurobasket silver and one WC silver with the leadership of these players. Can you dream of a medal right now with freaking Osman and Korkmaz taking the helms when the things matter on the court? What is worse than having no star in your roster is that having average players who show off themselves as star players as Osman and Korkmaz does.

The thing is that we have never had a lot of quality players in our talent pool, but we had enough number of them to get 2 medals in a decade. Now, we have none. We will never have another one unless we keep up with the changing basketball concepts.

Your opinion is that turkish bb doesn´t produce enough quality too receive a better level. I´m not happy with the produced prospects, with producing role players etc. but even with this level of prospects turkish bb would reach the level among top 5-6 in Europe if those players would get real chance in their teams. I don´t know why turkish people bashing so hardly against Furkan Korkmaz´ NT performance. Can you show me 1 turkish player with good NT career? No you can´t because there isn´t 1. Even this Furkan Korkmaz showed in all his tournaments at least decent performance and if he had the character too lead a team then he would even show much more.

In cases of Onuralp and Sadik we can see what happens if you get a real chance. You said that from 98-06 generations there are 3 difference makers with Adem Bona, Demir Dogan, Hamza Mestoglu(big fan of him but do you know that this kid is just 200 as PF?). Did you missed just the name of Alperen Sengün or do you no believe that he will be difference maker for turkish NT?
 
Your opinion is that turkish bb doesn´t produce enough quality too receive a better level. I´m not happy with the produced prospects, with producing role players etc. but even with this level of prospects turkish bb would reach the level among top 5-6 in Europe if those players would get real chance in their teams. I don´t know why turkish people bashing so hardly against Furkan Korkmaz´ NT performance. Can you show me 1 turkish player with good NT career? No you can´t because there isn´t 1. Even this Furkan Korkmaz showed in all his tournaments at least decent performance and if he had the character too lead a team then he would even show much more.

In cases of Onuralp and Sadik we can see what happens if you get a real chance. You said that from 98-06 generations there are 3 difference makers with Adem Bona, Demir Dogan, Hamza Mestoglu(big fan of him but do you know that this kid is just 200 as PF?). Did you missed just the name of Alperen Sengün or do you no believe that he will be difference maker for turkish NT?

The chance is not given but taken. The promising players shouldn't opt for high profile teams at the beginning of their careers until they mature their games. Bitim did a very good choice by going Bursa and this move will make him earn more in long term. All those excuses that Turkish prospects can't get enough playing time in their teams make me get bored. They should be enough logical to pave the way for their careers by going the teams they can take serious roles. All those possible protective actions to make them get more playing times don't reflect credit on their careers in long term. The ones who improve themselves already start to get enough chances to come into prominence just like Kabaca. There is a huge difference between 20-21 model Kabaca in Beşiktaş and Kabaca in Galatasaray. His offense is much more polished right now so he became a serious factor in his team this season.

Korkmaz hasn't proved anything in NT level because he didn't play a single serious game under NT jersey yet. Group stages in Eurobasket 2015-2017 and WC 2019. Couple of good games scoring wise, but he was far from being a reliable actor on offensive end. I still believe in him, he can give more than he already did. Offensive potential is huge. When Türkoğlu was 22 years old in Eurobasket 2001, he was playing Eurobasket final by averaging 15,5 PPG, 5,8 RPG and 3,5 APG. Of course, the team quality is the real deal here and we can't only bash Korkmaz for the constant failures, but one thing is sure that he couldn't be the guy that had been promoted since his U-days yet. Hopefully this Eurobasket will be the one that he gives strong message to the followers with his better performance. Any less number than 15 PPG is a failure for a player like him.

Mestoğlu is definitely undersized, but I see his great skill-set superbly matching with Euro basketball. No NBA projections on him, but he will become a player that NT will utilize for years. He is the real candidate to cover PF position since I don't see Şengün as PF. I eagerly wait to watch him this year's U-18 tournament. About Şengün, I didn't count him since he is already playing in NBA, but I don't see him as the leader of team potentially for now. He is superb talented, may be an icon in Turkish basketball in the future, but for my basketball taste he is integrative part of the team rather than being the main guy of the team. His defence has a long way to go, he disrupts the integrity of team defense. This can of course be fixed in time. We are lucky to have such a offensive potential like him.
 
The chance is not given but taken.

Bu kadar saf olmayin. 19, 21 yasindaki cocugun 29 yasindaki tecrübeli, donanimli yabancidan formayi kapmasini daha cok beklersiniz. Yatirim yapilmasi gereken yetenege yatirim yapilir, yani dakika ve sorumluluk verilir ve iste bu Türkiye disinda tüm Avrupa´da gerceklesen olay bu. Onuralp ve Sadik senin dedigin gibi gelistikleri icin degil, antrenörleri onlara güvenip o rolü verdikleri icin parladilar(ne büyük tesadüftür ki bunu yabanci koclar altinda yasadilar).

Serkan Erdogan 27 yasinda, yani 2005 yilinda star oldu. Nasil oldu anlatayim mi? NBA´den Dion Glover skorer olarak geldi ama uyum saglayamadi ve gitti ve bu oyuncu yerine baska oyuncu alinmadi ve Serkan sadece 2-3, dominant olmayan yabanciyla 2-1-3 pozisyonlarini paylasip Euroleague´de isim yapip Tau Ceramica´ya transfer oldu. Günümüz kosullarinda olmasi imkansiz kosullar gercekleserek cikisini yapti.

Deginmek istemeyerek yine Hidayet konusunu acmak zorunda hissediyorum kendimi cünkü neredeyse katildigi bütün turnuvalarin, tüm oyuncularin icinde takimina en cok zarari veren oyuncu olarak bitirmesine karsin Türk insani her seyi 2 gün sonra unuttugu icin cok iyi bir milli takim kayiyeri yapti zannediliyor. 2001´de kendine göre iyi bir turnuva gecirmesine ragmen tek Almanya macinda gercekten iyi oynadi, finalde gercek Hidayet´i izletti ve onun yüzünden cok kötü bir gün geciren Sirbistan´a karsi sansimiz olmadi.

Okben Sirbistan´da takimin lideriyken Lazarevic takimin rotasyon oyuncusuydu ve bu oyuncu bu yil Euroleague rotasyon oyuncusu olarak oynadi. Okben oynasin, Okben hak ediyor olarak lütfen algilanmasin, Okben istemedigi icin hic bir seyi hak etmiyor ama Avrupa´da bu kadar alt seviyede(Lazarevic) oyuncu bile Avrupa´nin en üst seviyesinde sans buluyor ama tek bir Türk bile bulamiyor, cok garip......

Biraz düsünün, Kaselakis´in(90) oynadigi bir Euroleague´de nasil oluyorda tek bir Türk oyuncu yok. Yunanistan´in 89-90 jenerasyonu Pappas(sakatlik ve karakter) ve Koufos haric bütün oyuncularindan gerekli randimani alip, bizim neredeyse bütün 95-97 jenerasyonu kaybetmemiz acik ve net bizim sistemimizdeki problemle aciklanabilir. Iste o bizim sistem(ya da sistemsizlik) bize daha iyi bir Furkan Korkmaz sunamadi, nasil olsun ki? Ikinci ligde oynayabilecegi yil a takima alinip köse sutörü olarak kullanildi, sonraki sezon 3 ay Banvit´te oyun tarzina daha yakin bir sablonda sans bulup NBA´in yolunu tuttu. Sezon basi oyuna yön vermesi istendi ve maalesef basarili olamadi, nasil olsun ki, bu oyun tarzini en son Mayis 2014´te U18 Türkiye sampiyonasinda oynamisti(top gercekten Furkan´daydi cünkü Okben o yil U18 liginde oynamadi). Bir de Bogdan Bogdanovic´in nasil kendi oyun tarzini oynayarak adim adim büyüdügünü incelemekte fayda var.......
 
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Bu kadar saf olmayin. 19, 21 yasindaki cocugun 29 yasindaki tecrübeli, donanimli yabancidan formayi kapmasini daha cok beklersiniz. Yatirim yapilmasi gereken yetenege yatirim yapilir, yani dakika ve sorumluluk verilir ve iste bu Türkiye disinda tüm Avrupa´da gerceklesen olay bu. Onuralp ve Sadik senin dedigin gibi gelistikleri icin degil, antrenörleri onlara güvenip o rolü verdikleri icin parladilar(ne büyük tesadüftür ki bunu yabanci koclar altinda yasadilar).

The system is indeed wrong and not matching with our fruitful basketball environment. There is not only one right and one wrong in this evaluation. What I say is that giving guaranteed minutes to prospects doesn't reflect good on their careers. We already saw this when 3+2 rule was applied. All those promising players were disappeared even though they had enough playing times. For the player development, the most important thing is the quality of the role taken in team. Players are generally captured by their greedy agents and being misdirected. Where is the logic if a player decides to stay in Efes despite he knows he can't get minutes. Just an example, Saybir has lost his years in Efes and hasn't given anything to senior level basketball yet, many of lower-level teams were after him. The ones who want to make progress in their careers do the right move by going somewhere they can be more than a role player. After they are getting hardened, they try their chances at more competitive club. Things work like that. Nobody can expect big clubs to give meaningful minutes to promising players just because they offer something for future. The only thing matters for the clubs is title except the projected clubs like old-good Banvit.

I don't want to sound like I am a pro-Hedo, but you are definitely being unfair to his NT career. Except his last two international tournaments, he managed to be main offensive power of team with acceptable percentages. Most of the time his efforts felt short because of the general power of team. How do you decide "He was always the most damaging player between all players"? You know this is pure lunacy if you really believe what you say.
 
People are harsher on Osman then Korkmaz. Like it or not Cedi gave his all in any game he played in NT and aside from the infamous USA game I don't recall any ge he hurt the team. He is the only willing player to take charge when things are not going good and he is a good enough passer/creator to keep others involved while getting his own shots which is what I think is really important. Korkmaz plays as a scorer not a leader, which is a personality thing. Osman is not the most talented but were the most fitting due to his mindset.
If we have Alperen and Larkin on the court, Osman will thrive with lower pressure and can lead a successful team in Europe. He can be a first option on offense but he shouldnt be the only option. We saw this year how good he played with Rubio next to him. Larkin will provide the sMe
 
People are harsher on Osman then Korkmaz. Like it or not Cedi gave his all in any game he played in NT and aside from the infamous USA game I don't recall any ge he hurt the team. He is the only willing player to take charge when things are not going good and he is a good enough passer/creator to keep others involved while getting his own shots which is what I think is really important. Korkmaz plays as a scorer not a leader, which is a personality thing. Osman is not the most talented but were the most fitting due to his mindset.
If we have Alperen and Larkin on the court, Osman will thrive with lower pressure and can lead a successful team in Europe. He can be a first option on offense but he shouldnt be the only option. We saw this year how good he played with Rubio next to him. Larkin will provide the sMe

First option will be Larkin, thats sure.
Second option will be Sengün, at least should be
Third option will be Korkmaz if he doesnt shy away.
Rest is if the opponents defense is unbalanced.

The problem is not the offense though, never was
The problem is the control of the ball and the defense.
Thats why I wanted Sipahi to combine him with different
players who are too short or play poor defense but it seems this wont be happening.
The player I want him to find a proper role is Onuralp Bitim since he can play on both ends.
Such glue guys are exremely important for any team.
 
First option will be Larkin, thats sure.
Second option will be Sengün, at least should be
Third option will be Korkmaz if he doesnt shy away.
Rest is if the opponents defense is unbalanced.

The problem is not the offense though, never was
The problem is the control of the ball and the defense.
Thats why I wanted Sipahi to combine him with different
players who are too short or play poor defense but it seems this wont be happening.
The player I want him to find a proper role is Onuralp Bitim since he can play on both ends.
Such glue guys are exremely important for any team.

Excluding Sipahi from Eurobasket when he had his break-out season is a disastrous decision by Ataman. He is the only true PG who could give you defensive contribution and ability to lead the organization on offensive end. People generally do not recognize the value of players like Sipahi. He has been criticized by the basketball community because his stats-sheet has been usually empty because of all those intangible things he does on court haven't reflected on stats until this season. Unlike previous seasons, he managed to fill the stats-sheet and averaged 7,5 APG this season and make his team-mates looked better than they actually are. Just as an example, Egehan Arna's performance improved depending upon the arrival of Sipahi in the second half of the season. He is a great team-player. Playing small ball with Sipahi - Larkin - Korkmaz - Osman - Şengün line-up would be great. Plus Sipahi's presence on court boosts your chances to post the oppenent's guard up through close basket to enrich offensive assets. Damn, what a big mistake by Ataman.
 
FIBA Youth Setup Development Project Tournament held in Turkey with the participation of U-15 NTs of Kosovo, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. The games were low quality, Turkey outscored the opponents 50 points in average. It is meaningless to judge something from this tournament, but still Kaan Onat ('07) of Efes was the star of the tournament. Really crafty, talented PG. Plus, he is lefty. We need to see what he is capable of against better opponents.
 
Yes against good competition things will be clearer. But Kaan Onat(came from Ankara last season) is clearly above average for turkish standards. He showed that in Efes´ U16 whole season. But he was the star because the real star Derin Can ÜSTÜN got hurt in the first minutes of the first game(anyway Derin Can would not force at this level). Kaan Onat is not PG, he is better as SG. The same thing like Yagiz Aksu, a combo but better as SG. Yavuz Selim Kara(PF, Bahcesehir) is a raw jewel, next year he will most likely have his coming out. Even in this season he had just 5mpg. He has almost zero bb background but he showed even in passing and understanding not bad signs. Kid is a jewel, of course not the level of Demir Dogan but same atheticsm and same unbelievable quickness. He is without shoes something like 202-3. He has enough time, after next season we will see a completely different player. Third very active player was the swingman Atahan Akbas(Efes), i like him very much too, maybe not his skills but his mentality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViW1i-cBTuI

In this game we can see again with 13 Ömer Yusuf Şık(G, 2009). In this game he impressed me even more. I hope this is not because of maturity. Kid shows special talent. I´m following all turkish players from a very young age and what Ömer Yufus shows is very special for turkish standards. Years ago you could see this special talent from Derin Can Ünstün(but total different players) too. If no maturity in game then a special G-talent for turkish bb like Derin Can Üstün.
 
Derin Can Üstün is indeed a special talent. He had few great games in U-18 championship against older guards. He is the project player of Bahçeşehir College just like what Özdemiroğlu means for Darüşşafaka. Almost played for every youth teams of Bahçeşehir so far, and it seems he is already getting special treatment from Bahçeşehir. He had attended even few practices of senior team which a very valuable thing for a youngster.

Still, I would rather waiting a little bit more to evaluate his actual potential, just hold tight, he hasn't showed anything in international arena yet. İlyasoğlu, Küçük and Akyüz were talented as much as Üstün and dominated even older players in U-levels in Turkey, yet things didn't go as planned for them. They are no-factors for senior level basketball. 2022 U-16 European Championship should be the aim for Üstün, he may crack the rotation as one year younger player and show something meaningful on court in international arena.

Btw, I also liked Beren Demir Özdemir ('07) of Efes a lot. Very good frame for forward position and understanding for the game. His inside-outside balanced offense is attention grabbing. He is unnoted for now, but with constant development, we will hear his name often.
 
I was a big fan of Kücük and I am sure he will have his shot in a couple years but his body was always a question mark for higher levels and he made wrong decisions. Ilyasoglus defense was always troublesome and he resembles Tuncer in terms of work ethics. Just watched one game of this Üstün kid and he has talent without a doubt but we cant say how he translates later in the A - team yet. For me steady improvement is more important than talent in young ages. A talented player who is not ready to put effort and time becoming a better player is almost worthless. The best expample should be Okben Ulubay
 
If it comes to turkish players/prospects i never forget any detail. Beginning with Kerem Tunceri(79) i followed all turkish G´s from a very young age(of course Tunceri was already 19 etc.) and there was no one on the level of Derin Can Üstün, never ever. What makes Üstün special is, no one turkish guard playing bb in this right way like him. I like the talent of Ilyasoglu and still a big fan of him and if he got chance on pro level he performed most times good. Was a huge fan of the U16 Kücük(because of his 1v1) but he had always problems in playing the right play. Eray Akyüz was never a big talent. Like Alperen Sengün, Derin Can has special love and concentration in his game, very rare in turkish players. Trust me, there was never a more talented 15 years old turkish PG as Derin Can Üstün. In 2 years we can say totally different things of course, those are kids and other very important thing is we must wait until internatioal arena, this is other story.
Üstün lost a bit his shot in the second half of the season, things can happen.

I was a huge fan of Okben and he is a real talent, for example a clear cut more talented player as Cenk Akyol. But Okben never had the permanent presence in the game like Derin Can. If game is close then you know spanish, serbian guards will beat you and score or dish out, we never can expect this from a turkish player but Derin Can is exactly this player. You can make pressure on Ilyasoglu, Kücük etc. and you know those players will lose ball or a bad decision will come. You can try this with Derin Can but he will beat you and make the best play for his team.

Follow Melih Tunca(Efes, 05) too, kid could show big things next season.

Yes Beren Demir Özdemir has bright future too, a future 210 player with versatility. Even Kaan Caglar(SF, Efes) was interesting. Efes has really good prospects.
 
@TurkfromGermany, sorry but most of your views on Üstün is overstatement for now. The kid is really talented as you and me said, but no need to be over the moon. Derin Can Üstün has already a mature taste for the game, I will expect him to show this attribute off against his European peers. He didn't have any opponent that forced his game until now.

Let things ride. İlyasoğlu and Ulubay type of players are playing with low motors. Basketball never forgive deadness on floor. Both body and mind should always coordinately be active. They are only talented when the ball is in their hands. Today's basketball requires more than this. Though Ulubay is not that productive with ball anymore. He is totally lost.

I agree with Toruko on Küçük. It is early to cross his name out. I am for waiting at least one more year to see him making the cut. He will take off at one point. He needs a proper role in relatively low level team in BSL.
 
David Mutaf 34 points against U20 of Azerbaijan. His defense is weak especially his lateral quickness but has potential to be a three level scorer. Can let look amazingly difficult shots like a childsplay. I still think he has a pick and roll upside.
 
David Mutaf 34 points against U20 of Azerbaijan. His defense is weak especially his lateral quickness but has potential to be a three level scorer. Can let look amazingly difficult shots like a childsplay. I still think he has a pick and roll upside.

Not against U20, but senior team of Azerbaijan. I am not that high on him. His offensive versatility in usage is not impressive. Living and dying with his 3 point shots. He averaged 10 3PT FGA this season that is a terrible amount of shot volume to be honest. He can't have that kind of number of attempts in upper levels. He needs to have a more balanced game.

He can be a facilitator though. Ball handling has never been a problem for him, just lazy offensive mentality. Definitely a developable talent, but never ever will be a primary option in our player pool.
 
Not against U20, but senior team of Azerbaijan. I am not that high on him. His offensive versatility in usage is not impressive. Living and dying with his 3 point shots. He averaged 10 3PT FGA this season that is a terrible amount of shot volume to be honest. He can't have that kind of number of attempts in upper levels. He needs to have a more balanced game.

He can be a facilitator though. Ball handling has never been a problem for him, just lazy offensive mentality. Definitely a developable talent, but never ever will be a primary option in our player pool.

Yeah he depends very on his shot but this doesnt mean there is nothing else. I mean even Mahmutoglu started making difficult layups at the rim with 30. He can handle the ball and is an ok passer. He will have to find his game identity and this is a process. In addition he doesnt need to be the first option in the NT. Its still good to have such a shooter who can really create his shot.
 
Yeah he depends very on his shot but this doesnt mean there is nothing else. I mean even Mahmutoglu started making difficult layups at the rim with 30. He can handle the ball and is an ok passer. He will have to find his game identity and this is a process. In addition he doesnt need to be the first option in the NT. Its still good to have such a shooter who can really create his shot.

It is of course a good thing to have a versatile shooter who can create his own shot. But, before everything else, he needs to stop being a ball hog and needs to learn how to be effective in limited roles. His game identity made people who have been following him seriously have a bad impression on him.

I don't expect him to be a slasher, he can't be, but he should set more places for the different parts of the game. What he has shown so far makes him a potential Eurocup/BCL starter, nothing more.
 
@TurkfromGermany, sorry but most of your views on Üstün is overstatement for now. The kid is really talented as you and me said, but no need to be over the moon. Derin Can Üstün has already a mature taste for the game, I will expect him to show this attribute off against his European peers. He didn't have any opponent that forced his game until now.

Let things ride. İlyasoğlu and Ulubay type of players are playing with low motors. Basketball never forgive deadness on floor. Both body and mind should always coordinately be active. They are only talented when the ball is in their hands. Today's basketball requires more than this. Though Ulubay is not that productive with ball anymore. He is totally lost.

I agree with Toruko on Küçük. It is early to cross his name out. I am for waiting at least one more year to see him making the cut. He will take off at one point. He needs a proper role in relatively low level team in BSL.

I have no problem if Derin Can Üstün disappoints in 2 years, this is youth and specially turkish youth bb. I know the level of all turkish PGs, no matter which age. And there was no one on the level of Derin Can Üstün, never ever. I´m just happy that we have finally a talent like Derin Can. I have same high hopes for him like Demir Dogan.

Ömer Ege Ziyaettin(08) is a very talented PG too. But he is even younger and has physical problems but a born talent.

Okben´s only problem is that he doesn´t want do this job. With or without ball, Okben can play both ways and if he wants, he is best defender in turkish bb and a gamechanger in team defence but with zero willingness you can do nothing.
 
Ömer Ege Ziyaettin(08) is a very talented PG too. But he is even younger and has physical problems but a born talent.

As speaking of '08 generation, my favorite player is Alp Kerem Yücetürk of Datça. His future looks bright, he may be that fundamentally-sound forward I like the most. I know him from Efes youth setup, he was shorter, nice to see he grew tall at least 6-7 cm in one year. Physically potential is there aswell. Despite being the most scorer player of last U14 championship, he was not that effective actually, he used a lot of shots with low efficiency but never mind. He will pare off his wild game at one point, too early to judge. His rebound instinct is the most valuable part of his game for now.

Okben´s only problem is that he doesn´t want do this job. With or without ball, Okben can play both ways and if he wants, he is best defender in turkish bb and a gamechanger in team defence but with zero willingness you can do nothing.

Easy money. His Darüşşafaka journey stalled his game development. He is playing without confidence now and has no appetite for the game anymore. Beşiktaş is his seriously last chance. Another fail season means his name will be crossed forever.
 
Easy money. His Darüşşafaka journey stalled his game development. He is playing without confidence now and has no appetite for the game anymore. Beşiktaş is his seriously last chance. Another fail season means his name will be crossed forever.

I had hopes he would become at least a solid Eurocup level player especially after his first FMP season but it seems he doesnt like BB he likes the money that can be earned. Very sad story because he had a Kalinic level defensive upside with some pick and roll initiation ability. Would have been a useful player for the NT but I gave up on him.
 
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