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Turkish NT 2023

  • Thread starter Thread starter slice me nice2
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slice me nice2

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As FIBA Olympic Pre-Qualifying Tournament will be hosted by Istanbul, we can count ourselves as the biggest candidate for winning this phase in the light of roster strength and home advantage. Turkey, Croatia, Ukraine, Belgium, Bulgaria, Netherlands, Iceland and Sweden are going to feed the groups of Istanbul phase of the tournament. As Sengun already stated that he is going to participate in team this summer, we may also call Osman, Korkmaz and Yurtseven (As he apologized to Turkoglu for last year's absence) are likely to join the team.

Croatia is definitely a power that can possibly burden our job depending upon what kind of roster they are going to bring together. The rest is no match for us. I would like to see Buyuktuncel and Bona in this team as this is a great chance to integrate potential players into system, sadly Bona will miss the whole summer due to his injury.

PG: Larkin - Sipahi - Ozdemiroglu
SG: Korkmaz - Hazer
SF: Bitim - Osman
PF: Kabaca - Buyuktuncel
C: Sengun - Sanli - Yurtseven

I actually don't want to form this roster without Yilmaz so cutting Hazer out of roster and adding Yilmaz behind Osman is logical aswell. Hazer has been quite mediocre this season and couldn't make that leap that is expected from him. Osman's role should be reduced for the sake of team and the system should be built around Sengun, although I also don't think that as a great idea since Sengun failed to extend his offensive arsenal this season in this creepy Houston team where there was enough room for him to improve his perimeter game a bit. Not a good season for Sengun unlike how most of the people think. He is not going to find this much freedom anywhere else again. For the second spot for PF position, Saybir and Osmani can be an option, but I am for Buyuktuncel day and night.

Performances of young players in U-20 EC, U-18 EC and U-19 WC tournaments may surprisingly give them the 12th spot in team, of course not so likely, as we don't know how hot players of this season is going to perform against their European peers, but potential players for this possibility is Derin Saran (PG), Ege Demir (C), Melih Tunca (PG), Ozgur Cengiz (PG), Emir Sivas (PG) and Samet Yigitoglu (C). In a scenerio, one of these PG prospects perform greatly in these youth tournaments, one of them may take the third PG spot from Ozdemiroglu. I would greatly welcome this decision as NT experience means a lot for the improvement of young players, both from the aspects of confidence and experiencing the highest level of basketball at very young age.
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I am with you in almost all points and also with the roster selection but when it comes to Sengun you are too impatient. His shot will come around sooner or later. Even in the last 15 games his volume and percentage increased. It was a great chance to build some chemistry with Bona and Sengun together but unfortunately he is injured but at this stage I dont think we need him very much.

For bigger goals he is essentiel. I dont think Yurtseven will apologize. He is not that kind of guy. We will see if Ataman can bite the bullet and call him.

The good thing is that Croatia has even bigger problems with play making than us and they cant put pressure on the ball like Greeks or other teams. Bogdanovic should have retired but they still have respectable bigs so no game can be taken as granted.

Avoiding most of the bigger names such as Poland, Czech Republic, Israel, Bosnia or even Estonia its a very doable job.
 
The problem with Sengun is the durability of his improvement and that sense people see him as a lumbering offensive-heavy center with no defense. His perimeter shot volume has fallen by half comparing to his rookie season. Although his stats is much more impressive than his rookie season, the way he had played in his first year was more promising than his sophomore season. His volume has only increased by 0.10 per game in last 15 games which actually doesn't tell anything. He got enough positions on offense that he shied away from taking those shots constantly. That's why I said he could do better this season. He has done a good job in NBA so far, but accordance to his potential, he must prove himself at least on offense in every segment because he is a liability on defense and will get exposed on switches by explosive players of NBA which is a big big minus in today's basketball. So unlike many people, he didn't Wow me this season at all.

He is still young, no need to be harsh on him of course. He is the best what we have now.
 
This is all correct. My main objective was him to decrease his excessive TO from his rookie season but even his solid true shooting percentage increased significantly. I dont think he was prohibited to shoot, he just didnt feel confident enough to shoot. In Eurobasket 22 he showed a solid mid range jumper and it was at least for me very unexpected.

He has a long summer ahead of him and this season we need to see significant evidence of improvement. He needs to work on his body, on his shot and his lateral quickness. I dont accept him to come unprepared like he was in Eurobasket 22. Cedi Osman for example can be accused by many things but he is always physically ready. The main point of this team will be the establishment of a functioning defense. The defensive weaknesses wont be exposed that much but we have to establish it this year.

I just dont want to see Melih Mahmutoglu or Bugrahan Tuncer anymore and I think you are too optimistic about Berke B
 
Toruko said:
Just two teams will advance to the next stage. The winner of group A/B and C/D
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If that will be the format, I see Czech Rep. vs Poland in Group A/B then Turkey vs Croatia in Group C/D... Although I will not put out other teams such as Bosnia, Israel and Iceland...
 
Osman should have a set role in rotation in NT just like Cleveland. The best way to utilize him is that making him the leader of second unit. He played quite a mature role in his team this season, didn't force too much, he shot when he was open and played a bit more clever throughout the season so that he had the best offensive rating of his career in NBA by taking into account Per 100 poss stats. Lessen his role up gave him a path to be a more effective player. He is still a too much hot or cold player and doesn't look like he is going to quit this habit through his career. So as we still see him the integral part of our NT team, we need to learn to live with this reality and assign him a new role which doesn't include that freedom to shot how much he wants. His excessive and ineffective ISO plays, by taking into consideration of his star label, caused him to be looked down on, maybe with lighter role, we will get more from him and he will be freed from the pressure that affects his performance too badly.

In he last tournament, he used more FGs than Sengun and Korkmaz. His share on offense should be around 10-15%. The more gives headache.
 
I think some people who follow Turkish basketball fail to fully grasp the importance of Sadık Kabaca for our NT. At that time when Turkish basketball was experiencing a significant lack of power forwards after Ersan Ilyasova's absence, Kabaca's development over the past two years has been crucial. When comparing him to players competing in top European leagues such as Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Turkey, Greece, ABA, and VTB, Kabaca emerges as the one of the most efficient and promising PFs among U-23 position counterparts. This is a highly significant and impressive statistic.

U-23 PFs of major leagues:

Sadık Kabaca: 12,6 PPG in 28,2 MPG
Mikael Jantunen: 8,2 PPG in 23,6 MPG
Yoan Makoundou: 7,9 PPG in 18,3 MPG
Joel Parra: 9,5 PPG in 25,6 MPG
Matej Rudan: 12,8 PPG in 26,7 MPG
Andrey Martyuk: 9,1 PPG in 18,3 MPG


While I strongly disagree with Turkish players who haven't proven themselves enough at high level immediately moving to Anadolu Efes or Fenerbah​ce I believe that due to the existing structure at Anadolu Efes, Kabaca will have sufficient playing time and will elevate his level alongside the team. In this regard, I think the exact opposite of what I think about Bitim. I believe that his abilities, which make a difference at the EuroCup/BCL level, will continue without hindrance at the EuroLeague level aswell. If he can elevate his defensive appetite, then we can completely talk about a different level for Kabaca which we have only seen in Ilyasova at this position.
 
slice me nice said:
I think some people who follow Turkish basketball fail to fully grasp the importance of Sadık Kabaca for our NT. At that time when Turkish basketball was experiencing a significant lack of power forwards after Ersan Ilyasova's absence, Kabaca's development over the past two years has been crucial. When comparing him to players competing in top European leagues such as Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Turkey, Greece, ABA, and VTB, Kabaca emerges as the one of the most efficient and promising PFs among U-23 position counterparts. This is a highly significant and impressive statistic.

U-23 PFs of major leagues:

Sadık Kabaca: 12,6 PPG in 28,2 MPG
Mikael Jantunen: 8,2 PPG in 23,6 MPG
Yoan Makoundou: 7,9 PPG in 18,3 MPG
Joel Parra: 9,5 PPG in 25,6 MPG
Matej Rudan: 12,8 PPG in 26,7 MPG
Andrey Martyuk: 9,1 PPG in 18,3 MPG


While I strongly disagree with Turkish players who haven't proven themselves enough at high level immediately moving to Anadolu Efes or Fenerbah​ce I believe that due to the existing structure at Anadolu Efes, Kabaca will have sufficient playing time and will elevate his level alongside the team. In this regard, I think the exact opposite of what I think about Bitim. I believe that his abilities, which make a difference at the EuroCup/BCL level, will continue without hindrance at the EuroLeague level aswell. If he can elevate his defensive appetite, then we can completely talk about a different level for Kabaca which we have only seen in Ilyasova at this position.
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Let me ask a question then because I am really curious about your opinion in this point. In GS games SEK showed very poor defense in several games especially in space. He cant read defenses very well and watches the ball instead of reading the game. What do you think is his defensive upside?
 
In general terms, he possesses the basic qualities required to be a good defender under the rim. He is strong enough, adequately athletic, and has really good size for his position. In that regard, when his defensive appetite increases and he focuses a bit more on defense rather than primarily on offense, he will become a better defender under the rim. However, he doesn't show much promise in perimeter defense. He struggles to execute effective lateral movements and his feet are not that fast to stay in front of backcourt players which doesn't make him a switchable player. It seems challenging for him to overcome being a player that opponents won't hesitate to attack on.

I agree with the defensive liabilities you mentioned aswell. He lacks the ability to read opponents on defense. His defensive concentration is low and he tends to get bored staying engaged on defense, which is why I mentioned that his focus is mostly on the offensive end. Understanding that defense is a crucial part of the game might come easier to him when he joins a team with bigger ambitions. Taking all of these into consideration, his weaknesses outweigh his strengths and I believe that the rate of converting his weaknesses into strengths will not be very high. Therefore, I think his defensive potential will be average at most and this reality stands as the biggest obstacle for his career to climb higher.
 
Sadik Emir Kabaca got an invitation from San Antonio Spurs for the Summer League. He needs an excuse from the NT camp for 15 days
 
Playing in the Summer League may not be highly important, as the basketball played there can't be called real basketball. However, it still provides a valuable 10-day overseas experience, which can be seen as a plus. Interacting with team coaches and executives is crucial for future opportunities.

As demonstrated by the TT Ankara series, Kabaca needs to focus intensively on two major areas: defense and rebounding. Particularly, significant progress is required in rebounding department as his current rebounding average falls below the expected level for the quality of his player profile. It is hard to accept that even Ozdemiroglu and Bitim outperform Kabaca in rebounding. One of the main reasons for his low RPG seems to be his lack of involvement in offensive rebounding and staying away from the rim. Even when he enters the paint, he avoids physical contact and struggles to establish position under the rim. He tends to settle for watching his teammates' shots rather than actively tracking them. He needs to be more aggressive in the game's competitive aspects. Contributing only when he has the ball in his hands is not sufficient in high-level basketball. He must focus on his deficiencies in game perception and understanding. Even if he plays in a place like the Summer League where less physical and intense basketball is played, these liabilities will draw negative attention from those involved. Currently, in BSL, his rebounding average of 4.3 RPG is not even in the top 50 (which is a concerning statistic). At this level, a talent like him should aim for at least 6 rebounds per game. Players with a similar playing style at the top level currently maintain averages at this level. He should set goals specifically for rebounding and work hard to improve in that aspect.
 
I think we should really consider to use Wilbekin over Larkin from now on. Larkin reached an incredible level 3 years ago but I severely doubt he will reach that level ever again. He has to be in top physical shape and it takes time. We need Wilbekins great defense. Larkin is surely the better play maker but its a question for me if we really need his play making in this team.
 
slice me nice said:
Hazer has been quite mediocre this season and couldn't make that leap that is expected from him.
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This is a very weak argument. We are talking about turkish bb. We will see similar situations always in turkish bb, one season a player gets minutes and next season not and this happened without a reason, he played always well if he got minutes. This is the destiny of turkish players, especially in EL-teams. The problem is to be found in the turkish system, not at Sehmus Hazer. Hazer had a great eurobasket as a role player. Turkish bb doesnt have the luxury of losing a player like that. Turkish bb needs stability, a face, an identity and this is possible if you have the right players some years in the NT together. Right player is Hazer. He proved that at Eurobasket. Even in Belgrad Sehmus Hazer was the reason for the comeback against Serbia, especially in the first half.
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I agree that Sehmus is extremely useful player for national team an proved it. I would take Sehmus over any player like Ozdemiroglu, Tuncer, Mahmutoglu etc. Some players even if having mediocre season with its team still make impact in national team and might give contribution. We cannot lose players like Sehmus. Korkmaz also mediocre season and should we take him out of national team? National team is another strory and team performance is not only criteria.
 
If you read my post so carelessly like this, it's perfectly normal for you to come up with such nonsensical and funny arguments. No one is excluding Korkmaz or Hazer. Moreover, you can choose not to include Hazer in NT after his mediocre season, but you can't even think the same about Korkmaz. They are players of different levels. You're giving a bad example. If you look at the lineup I created, you can see that I have already included Hazer in my list. My emphasis was on using Bitim more as a shooting guard and making a move to benefit from Yilmaz, who had a great season, by adding him behind Osman. I highlighted that Yilmaz' addition to the roster could be a logical move. Otherwise, I agree with you to some extent about Hazer. Hazer is still a promising player with qualities that we can use in the NT, and I don't have a thought of giving up on him. In my opinion, Yilmaz is a player of value who should be included in the rotation, and the idea of excluding Hazer from the team is a significant possibility that should not be underestimated.

However, it is true that Hazer has not been able to reflect the momentum he gained from Eurobasket in the Euroleague arena. Blaming everything on the problems in Turkish basketball seems lame and unrealistic to me. Hazer is still a player who lacks consistency in his shot that lacks confidence while making it and does more harm than good to team play at the highest level. Hazer is the same player he was two years ago. What has he added to himself since his time at Besiktas? Is it wrong to question this player's work ethic? Don't be naive, guys. The biggest weakness of Turkish basketball players in general is their failure to make extra efforts despite having all the facilities at their disposal and only going one scheduled training session to another. It is clear how players like Kabaca, Yilmaz, or Bitim, whom I have personally witnessed doing extra work, have made their breakthroughs. When you see that players like Hazer, who only earn the label "hardworking" by showing high energy on the court, but do not make any efforts off-court despite being aware of their own liabilities, your respect for the player naturally diminishes.

Which country's basketball system can you cite as an example except for Spain or France? There are serious problems in Turkish basketball, and I can truly talk about this topic until morning, but it is not the right approach to attribute every negative situation to these problems. Hazer received more playing time and responsibility than expected in the Eurobasket and delivered on it. At this level, the expectation was for him to get at least 10 minutes of playing time in the Euroleague. Are Turkish coaches at fault, or foreign coaches, or is it just a problem with the work ethic of Turkish players? Don't make me laugh, mind your own business.

Hazer could be much better than he is now and the insignificant minutes he gets in BSL don't matter to me. Players like Hazer can compete with the best, but first, they themselves must want it. He made a striking decision by going to Fenerbahce. In my opinion, it would have been better for him to play with higher responsibility at Besiktas for one more year, but he made this decision. If you make this decision, then you will have to live up to it in the Euroleague. Hazer is indeed a talented player, but not in this manner. If players are not stars, they are not irreplaceable in the NT; if they are inadequate, they can be replaced.
 
c-myers said:
I agree that Sehmus is extremely useful player for national team an proved it. I would take Sehmus over any player like Ozdemiroglu, Tuncer, Mahmutoglu etc. Some players even if having mediocre season with its team still make impact in national team and might give contribution. We cannot lose players like Sehmus. Korkmaz also mediocre season and should we take him out of national team? National team is another strory and team performance is not only criteria.
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everyone above Tuncer. even Mehmet Yagmur. The guy kills my nerves with his lax attitude. This is NT. No place for primadonnas like him.

Seyhmus is the opposite, gives his best on the court. IIRC, he came out of nowhere from a little town in Urfa or somewhere like that, which alone indicates the gem in him. He has lots of shortcomings for the EL level, and that's why his minutes were limited. Still, he got to show what he could do, but disappeared later on, in parallel with Mr. Itoudis's totally confused mental state. You guys will see it better, but to me, he lacks a few fundamental skills, such as dribbling, finishing around the rim etc., the things which the coaches should be able to teach.
 
Do you guys think ozdemiroglu, Yilmaz and kabaca are going to get +10 minutes in EL next season? I really hope sadik is going to be 1 of the 2 pf's on the roster, personally I also think Yilmaz and ozdemiroglu could potentially get a niche role under erdem can. It's going to be exciting to see this much talented Turkish players on our 2 EL teams as bitim,sanli and osmani are also getting linked with Fenerbahce. (Also really like the idea of hazer going to bursa in a swap deal it would be amazing for both) What do you guys think?
 

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