The Final: United States - Serbia

[Hepcat2]

My impression of the game was when the Americans took command of the game late in the first quarter, the Serbian players just opted to play basketball like they would on the playground since they realized they were not going to win anyway. That's why we ended up with high scoring run-and-gun basketball from both sides from the end of the first quarter. But that's also the type of game in which the U.S. team just steadily pulls away from the opposition.

Congratulations to both teams though. Team U.S.A. showed that they were head-and-shoulders better than anyone else and Team Serbia showed some real grit after its disappointing start and went out and grabbed the Silver.

 

[slask2]

I don't belive, how someone can write things like Terrorizer. You're always trying to bring some controversy, but this is beyond me. I don't know if you know any professional coach by yourself, but I can assure you that there is no coach that would complicate the game just because of... some sets. The more talented guys you have, the less sets you need to be succesful. If you have a guy who can get by someone without a help of a teammate, there is absolutely no need to set any screens. This is a simple game and european basketball is killing itself by implemeting too much tactics from the early phases of teaching players.

If you want to see "intelectual" basketball, you need go back to pre 90's 30 second european age. Trasistion game is almost not existent there, there are lots of useless cuts etc. You would be satisfied. In modern basketball there is no need to play like this.

 

[Bad Boys 28822]

My impression of the game was when the Americans took command of the game late in the first quarter, the Serbian players just opted to play basketball like they would on the playground since they realized they were not going to win anyway. That's why we ended up with high scoring run-and-gun basketball from both sides from the end of the first quarter. But that's also the type of game in which the U.S. team just steadily pulls away from the opposition.

That isn't necessarily how the strategy works.

As a player, when you work hard for 20-25 seconds to eat up the clock and get a basket, and the other team comes back down and scores in 5 seconds, it's demoralizing knowing you're going to spend another 25 seconds doing that same thing. Eventually frustration takes over and you try to score quickly to to get those points back.

 

[CHBB2]

That isn't necessarily how the strategy works.

As a player, when you work hard for 20-25 seconds to eat up the clock and get a basket, and the other team comes back down and scores in 5 seconds, it's demoralizing knowing you're going to spend another 25 seconds doing that same thing. Eventually frustration takes over and you try to score quickly to to get those points back.

How would you know? In reality, the most demoralizing thing as a player is digging in and doing what you're supposed to do and then watching your teammates play stupid, selfish basketball that results in a turnover. Nothing takes the wind out of your sails quite like that does. Athletes prepare for what they need to do and they do it. It doesn't matter how daunting the task is. Only stupid players try to score quickly rather than making the right plays. Smart players know when to run and when to slow it down. For somebody who claims to watch the NBA so much, you'd think you'd know that the best NBA teams know when to run and when to slow it down. This Team USA plays like a shit NBA team though that has no concept of balance or pace.

This is exactly what the problem is with US basketball culture these days. Stupid, asinine basketball is called "smart" or "tactical" or "strategy" or "simple" when in reality all it is, is stupid. Just call it what it is. People can't just call dumb basketball what it is anymore. Even in the NBA. Only stupid basketball players don't understand that rushing your offense simply because you're losing is exactly the way to go down by even more and that the only way to come back is to play your game. Experienced teams understand this. Any kind of leader understands this. Acting like it's a natural instinct to rush things just because dumb basketball players don't understand not to do it is ridiculous. The natural instinct is to do everything to make your team win and frustration not at "the situation" but at the players who aren't doing what they're supposed to.

Serbia, like every other team but Spain, played scared and it was obvious. It's no different than when you see a lower ranked team play against a highly ranked team in the NCAA or a non "elite" team play an "elite" team in the NBA. Unless you put yourself in the right mindset and dig down, you beat yourself before the game even starts.

 

[CHBB2]

Yes it is. Simple math. If you don't understand this very basic part of basketball, then there's no wonder there is such a disconnect here in what constitutes tactics.


...and this is just...LOL

If you think Euroleague teams play better defense than NBA teams, you're blinded.

I imagine if I tried to argue that MLS was fundamentally superior football to the premier league, this is probably how it would look. Just baseless nationalism.

It's not "very basic part of basketball". In basketball, you play your game unless your opponent forces you to do otherwise. You intentionally play to your strengths, not just play however you individually want to and then pretend it's a "tactic" or a "strategy". This is the first Team USA since 2008 that has played this way so no it's not a "US" thing nor a "very basic part of basketball" or any of that other crap. It's these specific players and their type that plays that way because it's all they know how to do.

Except the Premier League is still held to the higher standard that the NBA USED to be held to, so it's not comparable as an analogy.

 

[Bad Boys 28822]

The Pistons of the late 1980's with multiple hall of fame players (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman) were known as a brutally tough defensive minded team. Possibly the best defensive team ever.

But when they went up against a last place club that could not compete in terms of talent? They would try to run them off the floor. Whether or not that was their specialty was irrelevant. Elaborate tactics are for the evenly matched opponent, not the over-matched opponent.

If you have a decided offensive talent advantage, you try to maximize the number of possessions and transition opportunities. If you're playing from the position of the underdog, you try to do the opposite. If you're playing a team that's roughly even to you, then it's time for elaborate tactics.

Every American teenager is has this taught to them from the moment they start to play competitive basketball. It's the very basics that you teach to a child.

The early 2000's Sacramento Kings were another great example. They had the pretty Princeton offense but their goal against most teams was to maximize fast breaks, get easy dunks for Webber and open transition threes for Bobby/Peja. They sped the game up more than any NBA team of their era. Their base offense was a fall-back option for when the other team was able to slow the pace.

 

[Chigusa2]

Yes it is. Simple math. If you don't understand this very basic part of basketball, then there's no wonder there is such a disconnect here in what constitutes tactics.


.

Agreed, there really seems to be a disconnect with some internet basketball fans and the reality of what is really happening on the court. If you're a marvelous talent like Kyrie Irving, and you see the likes of Teodosic, Jovic, and Bogdanovic back pedaling in transition are you going right at these guys or pulling back. LOL, try telling Kyrie Irving to not abuse these guys. There was a quick stretch late in the 1st quarter where Kyrie Irving started to dominate Milos, he was just abusing him..got em on a high ball screen and pulled up with a mid range J, he then came back and nailed a three in his face as he was backing up, and finally he euro stepped the ish outta him in transition to score 7 straight points by himself, effectively turning the game...these are all easy plays for an NBA all-star.

Irving states in interviews that he reads the feet of his defenders, when he sees that a defender is off balance he attacks..he's a wizard with the ball. USA repeated the implemented the tactic/strategy of high ball screens that created guard/big mismatches. That's why it was easy money for Kyrie & James Harden to exploit those mismatches by driving or pulling up for a rhythm jumper against a big man who either isn't intrested in defending or is scared to death of the dribble drive. Kyrie Irving dominated the Gold Medal game and it was beautiful basketball to watch a talented 22 y3ear old player dissect a strong European defense like a surgeon, this was his first international competition!

 

[Bad Boys 28822]

Agreed, there really seems to be a disconnect with some internet basketball fans and the reality of what is really happening on the court.

It seems like baseless nationalism/anti-american sentiment.

It isn't like everyone here has that mindset, just one or two people that posts 1000 times while living in denial.

 

[CHBB2]

The Pistons of the late 1980's with multiple hall of fame players (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman) were known as a brutally tough defensive minded team. Possibly the best defensive team ever.

But when they went up against a last place club that could not compete in terms of talent? They would try to run them off the floor. Whether or not that was their specialty was irrelevant. Elaborate tactics are for the evenly matched opponent, not the over-matched opponent.

If you have a decided offensive talent advantage, you try to maximize the number of possessions and transition opportunities. If you're playing from the position of the underdog, you try to do the opposite. If you're playing a team that's roughly even to you, then it's time for elaborate tactics.

Every American teenager is has this taught to them from the moment they start to play competitive basketball. It's the very basics that you teach to a child.

The early 2000's Sacramento Kings were another great example. They had the pretty Princeton offense but their goal against most teams was to maximize fast breaks, get easy dunks for Webber and open transition threes for Bobby/Peja. They sped the game up more than any NBA team of their era. Their base offense was a fall-back option for when the other team was able to slow the pace.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. Teams back then played as a TEAM. This is not a "defensive-minded" team. It's a stupid team that plays lazy defense aside from the bigs.

Seriously, stop throwing around these generalizations as if they're gospel. Teams play to their strengths. They don't play as some kind of stereotype you make them out to be.

And yet again, the Kings played like a TEAM.

You use all of these terms without having a clue what they actually mean. Running a team off the floor is something you do as a TEAM. It means fast breaks with very little dribbling and passing the ball at the PRECISE right moment for the easy layup, dunk, or shot. Defensive minded means a team that digs down on defense and tries to limit the scoring as much as possible, not one that plays lazy defense mostly consisting of trying to pressure the ball and double team and go for steals while leaving players wide open all over the court. Simple offense is NOT the same as stupid, broken offense. In reality, this team made the offense much more complex and drawn out than it had to be simply by playing however the hell they individually wanted and then kicking out a most likely lazy pass to somebody to bail them out when they made a dumb decision.

Agreed, there really seems to be a disconnect with some internet basketball fans and the reality of what is really happening on the court. If you're a marvelous talent like Kyrie Irving, and you see the likes of Teodosic, Jovic, and Bogdanovic back pedaling in transition are you going right at these guys or pulling back. LOL, try telling Kyrie Irving to not abuse these guys. There was a quick stretch late in the 1st quarter where Kyrie Irving started to dominate Milos, he was just abusing him..got em on a high ball screen and pulled up with a mid range J, he then came back and nailed a three in his face as he was backing up, and finally he euro stepped the ish outta him in transition to score 7 straight points by himself, effectively turning the game...these are all easy plays for an NBA all-star.

Irving states in interviews that he reads the feet of his defenders, when he sees that a defender is off balance he attacks..he's a wizard with the ball. USA repeated impletemented the tactic/strategy of high ball screens that created guard/big mismatches. That's why it was easy money for Kyrie & James Harden to exploit those mismatches by driving or pulling up for a rhythm jumper against a big man who either isn't intrested in defending or is scared to death of the dribble drive. Kyrie Irving dominated the Gold Medal game and it was beautiful basketball to watch a talented 22 y3ear old player dissect a strong European defense like a surgeon, this was his first international competition!

You do realize that mostly any true NBA point guard can do that too, right? Every single player on Team USA in 2008, 2010, and 2012 could do that yet they played as a team instead. What if those shots didn't go in? What if the out of control drives to the hoop by Harden and some others end in turnovers (like they should've but didn't because Serbia couldn't get their hands on the ball despite there being no USA players anywhere near it)? This is what real leaders, real teams think about rather than playing for themselves. LeBron could've driven every single time he wanted to and nobody would've stopped him. Chris Paul could've done the same thing. All of those guys could've, but they didn't. They played surgical offense and stifling defense and everybody was forced to buy in. This is the only Team USA where that hasn't been the case since 2006, and it's because it's a team without any true leaders.

 

[CHBB2]

It seems like baseless nationalism/anti-american sentiment.

It isn't like everyone here has that mindset, just one or two people that posts 1000 times while living in denial.

To somebody with no clue when it comes to basketball I'm sure it seems that way.

I have only double your posts despite the fact that you joined a few days ago after you got banned as usagre. So who is it again that posts 1000 times?

 

[Chigusa2]

You do not have a clue what you are talking about. Teams back then played as a TEAM. This is not a "defensive-minded" team. It's a stupid team that plays lazy defense aside from the bigs.

Seriously, stop throwing around these generalizations as if they're gospel. Teams play to their strengths. They don't play as some kind of stereotype you make them out to be.

And yet again, the Kings played like a TEAM.

You use all of these terms without having a clue what they actually mean. Running a team off the floor is something you do as a TEAM. It means fast breaks with very little dribbling and passing the ball at the PRECISE right moment for the easy layup, dunk, or shot. Defensive minded means a team that digs down on defense and tries to limit the scoring as much as possible, not one that plays lazy defense mostly consisting of trying to pressure the ball and double team and go for steals while leaving players wide open all over the court. Simple offense is NOT the same as stupid, broken offense. In reality, this team made the offense much more complex and drawn out than it had to be simply by playing however the hell they individually wanted and then kicking out a most likely lazy pass to somebody to bail them out when they made a dumb decision.

You do realize that mostly any true NBA point guard can do that too, right? Every single player on Team USA in 2008, 2010, and 2012 could do that yet they played as a team instead. What if those shots didn't go in? What if the out of control drives to the hoop by Harden and some others end in turnovers (like they should've but didn't because Serbia couldn't get their hands on the ball despite there being no USA players anywhere near it)? This is what real leaders, real teams think about rather than playing for themselves. LeBron could've driven every single time he wanted to and nobody would've stopped him. Chris Paul could've done the same thing. All of those guys could've, but they didn't. They played surgical offense and stifling defense and everybody was forced to buy in. This is the only Team USA where that hasn't been the case since 2006, and it's because it's a team without any true leaders.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree if you seriously think 2010 & 2012 played more as a 'team' than this current edition of USA Basketball. I watched every game of each of those tournaments and I think each team is more or less comparable. This team was more balanced offensively without Kevin Durant. You are seriously splitting hairs trying to debate the aspects of each of these teams that pretty much dominated in each of those tournaments. You are posting hypotheticals, what if those shots missed, they didn't! And James Harden is almost always in control with his drives, he is a very calculating player who actually reminds me of a crafty European player.

And I think Bron learned in 2006 that you just can't drive in every single time in the FIBA game, and again you act like that's all USA did to achieve their victories. Screen & rolls, drive and kicks..USA indeed played like a team, they played for each other and looked for each other. They led the tournament in assists and played unselfishly, sometimes they actually over passed. Again exploiting mismatches is a tactic or strategy. Kyrie Irving vs Milos Teodosic in transition is a high percentage play, USA throwing alley oops are high percentage basketball plays...it's smart basketball to play to your strengths and execute.

When it comes down to it the crux of your argument is that this USA team didn't play as a team more than 2010 & 2012, LOL...yet they handled the competition in a more dominating fashion than those previous teams. But But, If if! No ifs and or buts, this USA TEAM was GOOD. You seem awfully mad about how the youngest USA team since we started sending NBA players, who had a month to prepare played in Spain. Big time disconect here.

 

[Dule_Vujosevic2]

Today in Belgrade, after our basketball players arrived.

 

[CHBB2]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree if you seriously think 2010 & 2012 played more as a 'team' than this current edition of USA Basketball. I watched every game of each of those tournaments and I think each team is more or less comparable. This team was more balanced offensively without Kevin Durant. You are seriously splitting hairs trying to debate the aspects of each of these teams that pretty much dominated in each of those tournaments. You are posting hypotheticals, what if those shots missed, they didn't! And James Harden is almost always in control with his drives, he is a very calculating player who actually reminds me of a crafty European player.

And I think Bron learned in 2006 that you just can't drive in every single time in the FIBA game, and again you act like that's all USA did to achieve their victories. Screen & rolls, drive and kicks..USA indeed played like a team, they played for each other and looked for each other. They led the tournament in assists and played unselfishly, sometimes they actually over passed. Again exploiting mismatches is a tactic or strategy. Kyrie Irving vs Milos Teodosic in transition is a high percentage play, USA throwing alley oops are high percentage basketball plays...it's smart basketball to play to your strengths and execute.

When it comes down to it the crux of your argument is that this USA team didn't play as a team more than 2010 & 2012, LOL...yet they handled the competition in a more dominating fashion than those previous teams. But But, If if! No ifs and or buts, this USA TEAM was GOOD. You seem awfully mad about how the youngest USA team since we started sending NBA players, who had a month to prepare played in Spain. Big time disconect here.

I saw multiple drives where Harden was anything but in control of his drive. It's not even that it's just him. When you add in the other players playing the exact same way then you don't have any kind of an offense and all the other team has to do is capitalize on the inevitable turnovers. It doesn't matter that they didn't miss. It matters that none of those players are pure shooters with the exception of Curry and they got lucky that their shots went in more often than not. They also got lucky that their bigs bailed them out often on both offense and defense. As for "exploiting weaknesses" and "high percentage" plays, that only applies when it is the right play done the right way. These players will throw up a lob and not care if it sails into the stands. They will drive past their own teammates and create a very difficult situation for their team to score that ends in a forced shot or somebody dribbling to try to bail them out. It happened time and time again.


Who cares how young they were? None of these players are rookies. Some of them have been in the league 5 years or more. And how did this team dominate their opponents more when the 2012 team is probably the most dominant team since the Dream Team and played against much better opponents?

 

[Unimane2]

I saw multiple drives where Harden was anything but in control of his drive. It's not even that it's just him. When you add in the other players playing the exact same way then you don't have any kind of an offense and all the other team has to do is capitalize on the inevitable turnovers. It doesn't matter that they didn't miss. It matters that none of those players are pure shooters with the exception of Curry and they got lucky that their shots went in more often than not. They also got lucky that their bigs bailed them out often on both offense and defense. As for "exploiting weaknesses" and "high percentage" plays, that only applies when it is the right play done the right way. These players will throw up a lob and not care if it sails into the stands. They will drive past their own teammates and create a very difficult situation for their team to score that ends in a forced shot or somebody dribbling to try to bail them out. It happened time and time again.


Who cares how young they were? None of these players are rookies. Some of them have been in the league 5 years or more. And how did this team dominate their opponents more when the 2012 team is probably the most dominant team since the Dream Team and played against much better opponents?

Good grief, this is getting absurd. "Lucky their shots went in"? "Lucky their bigs were there"? What a desperate argument. There were a lot of good shooters on the USA team and shootin with a closer three point line. It isn't a coincidence that they shot well. This is, clearly, the best shooting collection of players on Team USA that I can remember. And, the team had some bigs, so I'm failing to see how that's lucky. It certainly allows the perimeter defender to take more cahnces and, lo and behold, the Americans led the tournament in steals and, ironically for such a selfish poorly executing team, assists.

 

[CHBB2]

Good grief, this is getting absurd. "Lucky their shots went in"? "Lucky their bigs were there"? What a desperate argument. There were a lot of good shooters on the USA team and shootin with a closer three point line. It isn't a coincidence that they shot well. This is, clearly, the best shooting collection of players on Team USA that I can remember. And, the team had some bigs, so I'm failing to see how that's lucky. It certainly allows the perimeter defender to take more cahnces and, lo and behold, the Americans led the tournament in steals and, ironically for such a selfish poorly executing team, assists.

There's nothing "desperate" about it. I wouldn't agree that there were a lot of good shooters. There were guys who can hit shots but not guys who you can count on to knock them down almost every time. Curry is a great shooter. We all know that. Everybody else on this team though is just a guy who can knock down shots when in a rhythm and who you can't really count on to hit the shot when you need it most. Klay Thompson is a good shooter but is a gunner and plays no defense. Harden is really only a rhythm shooter and will miss a lot. He's an efficient scorer, for sure, but he does so while killing the offensive flow. There was no Durant level shooter on this team where it's virtually automatic. 2012 on the other hand had Durant, Kobe, Chris Paul, and some other guys who are either automatic or can knock down shots when it counts most. When your team is like that, you don't pull up for jumpers with a full shot clock. You say "But they didn't miss" but the kind of basketball player you're trying to make these kids out to be would look for the easiest, most efficient possible way to score. They didn't do that. They made dumb decisions and got lucky.

They led the tournament in steals because they gambled for them and because their big men blocked so many shots.

We're all glad they won. Why can't that be enough for you rather than making it out to be more impressive than it is?

 

[Chigusa2]

There's nothing "desperate"eut it. I wouldn't agree that there were a lot of good shooters. There were guys who can hit shots but not guys who you can count on to knock them down almost every time. Curry is a great shooter. We all know that. Everybody else on this team though is just a guy who can knock down shots when in a rhythm and who you can't really count on to hit the shot when you need it most. Klay Thompson is a good shooter but is a gunner and plays no defense. Harden is really only a rhythm shooter and will miss a lot. He's an efficient scorer, for sure, but he does so while killing the offensive flow. There was no Durant level shooter on this team where it's virtually automatic. 2012 on the other hand had Durant, Kobe, Chris Paul, and some other guys who are either automatic or can knock down shots when it counts most. When your team is like that, you don't pull up for jumpers with a full shot clock. You say "But they didn't miss" but the kind of basketball player you're trying to make these kids out to be would look for the easiest, most efficient possible way to score. They didn't do that. They made dumb decisions and got lucky.

They led the tournament in steals because they gambled for them and because their big men blocked so many shots.

We're all glad they won. Why can't that be enough for you rather than making it out to be more impressive than it is?

Klay Thompson Is universally recognized as a good young two way player among all nba circles and one of Coach Ks better two way players. Yet, you say he plays no d? Did you watch the games? If so you only saw what you wanted to see, stop embarrassing yourself. - Android Mobile

 

[Hepcat2]

View attachment 7208

Today in Belgrade, after our basketball players arrived.

My word! Serbian basketball fans are so angry about their team going down to the U.S. in the final that they're torching the city?

 

[Mr. Cam2]

that's what I call completely unreadable. bye
JPF

 

[CHBB2]

Klay Thompson Is universally recognized as a good young two way player among all nba circles and one of Coach Ks better two way players. Yet, you say he plays no d? Did you watch the games? If so you only saw what you wanted to see, stop embarrassing yourself. - Android Mobile

Yes, I saw the games. He regularly let his man by him and tried to gamble for the steal or the block.

Anybody who wants to claim 2012 didn't play like more of a team than this one need only watch these two games:

2012- US vs Nigeria: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6a3B499nwY

2014- US vs Finland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIZ9Tg_ARqI


Notice the actual defense played by the 2012 team and the crisp passes and smart offense. The only one not playing defense is Kevin Durant, whose guy regularly gets past him. Now compare that with the 2014 game. If you can't see the difference then you're seeing what you want to see.

 

[CHBB2]

Just in case you EUROPEANS have failed to see the obvious.

99.99% of AMERICAN basketball fans DO NOT CARE about FIBA or International

basketball in general.

Casual basketball "fans", not real basketball fans.

What the hell is this crap?

Do you have any idea how disrespectful and annoying it is when people like you spout this crap? The NBA is second only the NFL in the US. Hundreds of millions of people watch it. The idea that all of those basketball fans are casual fans just because you are is insulting to those of us who are actual fans. Some of us genuinely love basketball, a hell of a lot more than .1% of us. Plenty of Sixers fans, for example, watched just to see how Saric did with Croatia. You don't think Bucks fans watched the Greek team play? Or Bulls fans watched Team USA or Spain? There are millions of people in the US who stream the games online simply because they either love basketball or want to see the prospects for their particular NBA teams. This is an increasingly global game and "fans" like you are a disgrace to it with your ridiculous, disrespectful comments.