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buzz2
Guest
at least there wasn't a player pretending the dead man
the whole team was dead
the whole team was dead
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Stardusted2
Guest
This subject is different, but just to answer...
One russian player threw the ball from full court distance near the end, while they had 5 more seconds for their offense. 5 seconds. He didnt even pretend, he threw it allllllllll the way full court. How was that? You thought it was normal?
Now... I do believe we didnt try our best against russia. But why do people see it this way? If you play a game against an opponent and the outcome if you win is worse than the one when you lose, WHY should you try your best, and then have fully tired players or even possibly an injury?
Do you think that is logical?
For me it was not a matter of deciding to lose or to win, rather a matter of deciding how hard you should try to. The team obviously for me decided to treat the game like a friendly match.
It was the right decision. Why? Because if you look at it, it WAS a friendly match! There was nothing to win but only to lose if you tried too hard.
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purple2
Guest
No This subject is not different, you and some people here were saying Turkey came to the final by the ref's help and dishonesty, in return i gave you the example of Greece's game vs Russia. Do you really believe what you wrote in your second paragraph? I mean Greece is a agressive team, they always fight till at the end of the second, thats why many times they win in the crucial moments. and you are talking about a friendly game in the world basketball championship
while there was no sure avoiding spain, and what a luck you faced to spain. if we are talking about honesty and justice at basketball, that should be applied for all countries. that should be the point.
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Stardusted2
Guest
No This subject is not different, you and some people here were saying Turkey came to the final by the ref's help and dishonesty, in return i gave you the example of Greece's game vs Russia. Do you really believe what you wrote in your second paragraph? I mean Greece is a agressive team, they always fight till at the end of the second, thats why many times they win in the crucial moments. and you are talking about a friendly game in the world basketball championship
First of all, we knew we would face spain no matter what. Even if we win, still it was Spain. I won't analyze why, just think about it.
Now I don't say you went to the finals with ref's help and dishonesty. I don't say anything tbh, It is obvious you went to the finals with the ref's decision. Not even help. It was a clear decision of who gets to play against us.
And I didnt say you are a team characterized by dishonesty.
As for the "friendly" talk about the game, yes. It was a friendly game inside the world championship. It was a game you would gain no reward for winning. So why should our team go ALL out and play hard till the end, when they KNEW they would after that face Spain and would need all of their power and freshness ? I mean, even if win or lose had no difference at all. None. Still they would face the game as a friendly one.
You don't want to risk injuries and get tired for something that is not worth either. FIBA's fault not ours.
Checked the still shot taken from the video? See the ref? See tuncheri? You still argue about how you went to the finals? And yes, again, if it was our team there that way, I would be here saying "Sorry people, it is obvious. We shouldnt be there. The basket should never have counted."
Why is it so hard to just say that? It is not my oppinion, it is the facts.
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purple2
Guest
while you don't accept the loss vs Russia on purpose, why should i say we shouldn't be there? no i did not watch the video, but my friend did and he said the same about tunceri, but that doesnt mean we lost the game, there was still 4 seconds, these kind of mistakes can happen in basketball if you remember Turkey-Greece game last year.
it's really really unbelievable interesting that it's sooo hard to say for you : Turkey certainly deserved to play final.
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SparrowHawk2
Guest
Why should he say something that is not true?
And lets erase the part where Serbia was better team through the whole game, lets erase the all bad calls by refs, because all that you can debut, but if all this is not enough still stands a fact, a picture of Tunceri crossing the line with a ball in front of ref who is watching him.
So, yes it is hard to say a lie, because talk all you want, the facts stands that you weren't better than USA and Serbia, you didn't face 3., 5., 6. team Lithuania, Spain and Argentina, you played great against Slovenia and Greece but you either were worst or didn't play against top 5 performance teams on this championship.
The silver stands for you, and no one is disputing that, but the future will show, same as was showed 2002.-2009. after Eurobasket in Turkey, how really good you are in a neutral court. Not bad, but simply not a medal team.
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artorius2
Guest
ok let the all fucking comments over.i wont comment anymore against one sided minds.greeks were so honourable by giving game to russia as french were .yes we paid to refs for all tournament to help us.yes kerem pressed the line,and u wait froma ref to see it mikro seconds....
ja ja ja
Serbians,dont wait all the time u are gonna win by the perfect help of refs.tell me to reject your 95 and 02 medals,then i ll shout here,i dotn want this silver of our nt.
.yes we paid to refs for all tournament to help us.yes kerem pressed the line,and u wait froma ref to see it mikro seconds....ja ja ja
Serbians,dont wait all the time u are gonna win by the perfect help of refs.tell me to reject your 95 and 02 medals,then i ll shout here,i dotn want this silver of our nt.
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Stardusted2
Guest
ok let the all fucking comments over.i wont comment anymore against one sided minds.greeks were so honourable by giving game to russia as french were
ja ja ja
Serbians,dont wait all the time u are gonna win by the perfect help of refs.tell me to reject your 95 and 02 medals,then i ll shout here,i dotn want this silver of our nt.
So, you have never ever EVER played basketball right? You believe for the refs to see a player stepping on or over the line he should stand there still for a couple of minutes?
Are you serious? You either have no idea about how OBVIOUS it is when a player steps on the line and you are IN FRONT of him, or you are just making desperate arguements.
Please, take a couple of friends go inside any basketball court over there, and tell them to step over the line with half their shoe for a brief moment, THEN come here and tell me you didnt see it.
You can go on and say all the rest, it is your oppinion. But don't insult our intelligence and common basketball knowledge.
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purple2
Guest
I just saw the picture you were telling about, and accept that he crossed the line, and it's pretty interesting the ref didnt do anything.. but this kind of things happened to Turkey and Efes Pilsen many times, we really used to that. but of course this is World Championship and and not acceptable. However many people are accusing Turkish players thats what i'm mad of.
Also as a basketball fan, i always appreciate Serbian or let's say ex Yugoslavian national team. you are phenomenon you know that. just because Greece and Serbia have been great at basketball for years( much better than football) dont mean a new country at basketball (for example Turkey where football is first) can not be as good as your countries.
I totally agree with you on your last paragraph till the last sentence:
we simply deserved a silver medal..
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artorius2
Guest
first dont give me basketball lesson.i v played during all my college life and streets,i know how everything goes on.
second what i wanted mean u cant get the point.i dont say kerem was not on line.after searching all videos photos(hehe i could not trust some chauvinistic serbians who were even calling marcio,sabonis and arthur as pussies) so yes he pressed.it had to be canceled.
third,but the point is,i am angry why;cause all people here are just saying turkey did not deserve it.first leave the semi final;and yes kerem pressed the line so serbia had to be in final.(even look all game again,still refs were favouirng us but for some unsportsmenlike fouls they passed.ok whatever).so can u explain me why all slovenians greeks or whatever others are attacking us that we did not deserve the medal.only serbs can attack.why they r crying as oo look kerem pressed the line so turks cheated all tournament.that is why i am angry and opposer.slovenians has to accept for example that their team got erased.or u have to accept that we got clear won on you.
fourth,we are not a perfect team all.but 4 of our players are in Nba if it is a parameter.Serbia has one only for now.Serbians are ina dream of their dream team combined by stoja,bodiroga,djordje etc.but they have nothing next to this dream team.and even this dream team of them were perfect they got 2 medals by clear ref helps.
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SunOverHStreet
Guest
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Stardusted2
Guest
First of all, please use paragraphs, so we can communicate better
Now, you said the ref could NOT see he stepped over the line (not on) in micro seconds, thats why I gave you basketball lessons. And if you still believe that, then I did well to give you lessons, you need them.
As for who gives me the right or to the slovenians to shout about it? I am a basketball fan above all NTs. I love basketball, I mean I LOVE this game. I did since I was 7. I am entitled to point out such obvious massacres of a very worthy team. To be honest, turkish fans should be complaining too, if they value the sport.
It's not only Serbia's loss. Basketball as a game and FIBA as an organization and World Tournament as a way of proving the best teams lost.
And to be honest my friend, I don't recall asking you for a permission to express my oppinion. You believe I should have it in order to reply, or you want to check my nationality passport to see if I am a serb or a turk to be able to post?
If I was here saying "Wow turkish team was 100% better, they should be champions" I bet you would say "hey why do you talk, you are not turkish."
All in all, NO you did not deserve to be there, end of story. Everyone knows by now, the best thing you should do as a team is to make sure you perform well in the next tournament, one that won't be in your country.
Personally, and that's because I believe you have some great great players, I wish you the best. And maybe next time we will be here discussing how good you played, without mentioning any refs.
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artorius2
Guest
First of all, please use paragraphs, so we can communicate better
Now, you said the ref could NOT see he stepped over the line (not on) in micro seconds, thats why I gave you basketball lessons. And if you still believe that, then I did well to give you lessons, you need them.
As for who gives me the right or to the slovenians to shout about it? I am a basketball fan above all NTs. I love basketball, I mean I LOVE this game. I did since I was 7. I am entitled to point out such obvious massacres of a very worthy team. To be honest, turkish fans should be complaining too, if they value the sport.
It's not only Serbia's loss. Basketball as a game and FIBA as an organization and World Tournament as a way of proving the best teams lost.
And to be honest my friend, I don't recall asking you for a permission to express my oppinion. You believe I should have it in order to reply, or you want to check my nationality passport to see if I am a serb or a turk to be able to post?
If I was here saying "Wow turkish team was 100% better, they should be champions" I bet you would say "hey why do you talk, you are not turkish."
All in all, NO you did not deserve to be there, end of story. Everyone knows by now, the best thing you should do as a team is to make sure you perform well in the next tournament, one that won't be in your country.
Personally, and that's because I believe you have some great great players, I wish you the best. And maybe next time we will be here discussing how good you played, without mentioning any refs.
If I was here saying "Wow turkish team was 100% better, they should be champions" I bet you would say "hey why do you talk, you are not turkish."
-pathetic reply.i would rather say "r u fu.in kidding? we have a very good team,but not enough,dont exxagarate us"
- i dont care about the point,if we deserved or not.for semis,i guess i was very clear for refs,in the last seconds.
-And maybe next time we will be here discussing how good you played, without mentioning any refs-also sad reply.just tell me,if u believe in an idea,that TR NT came to the semi by the help of refs?
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Stardusted2
Guest
I believe your team deserved to be in the final 4. To be honest, I didnt even say that you were not good enough to be in the final game.
I just said that you did not deserve to be there the way it happened. That's all.
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Oky2
Guest
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artorius2
Guest
ok now we agreed on .in my opinion TR NT deserved to be in last 4.and played better than the teams except USA.With Serbia same quality.And yes for last seconds stepping the line brought us the final game.that is true.Just i say many people that dont tell our team did not deserve to be one of the best teams for this tournament.And many people cant tell as well that TR NT can just beat Serbia Nt by the help of refs.look one year ago.
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washcloud2
Guest
It sure did. Like Serbia "did". And Lithuania deserved it as well - maybe a tad bit more than the others. It's a matter of perspective too btw : For some, USA DIDN'T "deserve" to be a finalist ('cause of their emphasis on their athletic skills instead of playing a "heroics" basketball game). Serbia for others deserved it because of Ivkovic (his name alone "opens gates") and of the "creative" plays given by Teodosic (everybody loves a "mastermind point guard" that feeds his other 4 fellow players with awesome assists and that he moreover takes decisive 3 point shots, along with the lead of his team). There were ones that thought Lithuania deserved to be a finalist, 'cause of their extremely talented and tenacious young players that played in run and (effectively) gun mode, providing what's been missing in the new era of basketball : enjoyable plays. And of course, there are the ones, Turks mainly, that claim their team deserved a shot in the final game, for showing consistency throughout the tournament, and giving a couple of overwhelming games as well.
And they probably all are right.
History however wrote that the final was played between Kevin Dur,,,,,I MEAN Team USA and Turkey.
Only problem being that "controversial" semi with Serbia, which was leading the game till the last minutes and then came Asik's "theatrical performance" to avoid shooting that couple of free throws he earned, 'cause of his awful FT percentage and Krstic's disqualifying foul that seemingly only existed in the fantasy of the ref that called it that btw also endowed Erden with a single FT (the aftermath included mainly Tunceri's infamous out-of-bounds stepping when he got the ball from Turkoglu so as to make the last and actually silver-medal winning basket in those last 4 secs). I mean if Turkey got the lead for the most part and finally won by, say, 10+ points, I don't think that there'd be grounds for others to moan.
And it's true that the 5th foul called on Krstic was the "unfair"/decisive call.
All other stuff could be excused due to the intensity of the last minutes of such a game.
But does such a technicality make the Turkish team not eligible for the final?
I do not think so. And it would be sad if it goes down as such.
'Cause, for example, shouldn't there be a flagrant foul call on Teodosic for bashing Asik in the manner that he did?
Home teams may get the officials' support as a standard - but they seldom get the support of the other teams' fans. In the case of Turkey, this was kinda in the utmost degree. Why so?
Well, to begin with, "they are the Ottomans that suppressed the Balkans for half a millennium", "they are the ones that have been butchering Kurds, Armenian, Greeks and others even in modern times", "they are an uncivilized and of a retrograde religion nation of cocky ethnicists with offensive militaristic profile that also gives head to the Americans", "they are good for only home tournaments", "they don't have a certain basketball school and on the contrary their best players aren't clear Turks to begin with" and so on....
However, the fact is that this Turkish team utilized its home advantage, considering good psychology, to the best extend, and they played nicely and effectively through Mundobasket and of course shouldn't take any historical, political or religious blame for that matter. They surely weren't a team that gave you the feeling that they are an unbeatable force of nature - but then again we all saw what came of "unbeatable Greece", "formidable Spain", "mighty Argentina" and even of those "hungry Serbian youngster-gangsters who lost a game to the "nothingness" of the Germans, and had a close call with the Argentineans.
It would have been nice if the Turkish players made it to the final in a more convincing/matching to their previous games manner, and if they also fought more against Team USA, but to say "they didn't deserve that silver medal" is, I think, profanity against a team that had a certain cool, that played quite wisely/convincingly/effectively at times, a team that for the most part didn't provoke others with nasty behaviour/fouling (...unlike others did...).
All in all, yes, Turkey did (too) deserve to be in that final, even if they stepped on it with one leg........out of bounds.
So it's really not nice to attack the Turkish fans and their joy, is what I say. Even the occasional not so mature ones.
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purple2
Guest
I think this post sums up so good and nothing more to say. I can see clearly that some people here still prejudiced about Turkey and go on making negative comments..
As a Turkish fan, i can accept Tunceri's case, but for years Efes Pilsen and The Turkish team have had many stories like this.. maybe that's because we have only Korac cup which was won outside of Turkey. at least the refs are a bit fair in Turkey.
Thanks washcloud for the objective explanation.
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artorius2
Guest
at least there wasn't a player pretending the dead man
the whole team was dead
it is called as Yugoslavian style...dont forget that our coach is old Yugoslavian wolf,can use any method to win as Ivkovic hehe.