[Round 1 - Day 5 - Group C] Greece - Slovenia

[Alyosha122]

It's difficult to discuss what really happened without watching the video in every single situation. So, we can only express our impressions. My impression is that the refereeing was generally good and at least we agree on that it didn't decide the game.

Rule of thumb would say, that whenever you think a game reffed by Luigi Lamonica was reffed correctly then Luigi must have given the team you like the benefit of the whistle. There is no such thing as a good reffed game, when Lamonica is involved, its just a question of which team gets the shaft, or if they both do lol.

Anyway Greece is a much better team, and the reffs were not the reason why we lost. All in all i am happy we were close at all, because just like Zdovc, i personaly believe Greece is the gold favorite this year. I have to say, i really enjoy watching our team play, and that is something i would have never thought i would think, when i saw the roster. I think its the worst roster - talent vise, in Slovenian history. I am happy with the team though. If only E.Lorbek and Vidmar were healthy. :/ I shudder to think what Zdovc could have done with the teams Pipan screwed up in the early to mid 2000's

 

[Psofimis2]

It was the first game that Spanoulis-Calathes duo seemed to work really well today and it happened also against the biggest pressure on our guardline this year.

 

[KWSN-Men2]

Can you explain what all the dislike is about?
The only thing I can come up with is by discrediting Koufos many feel that they are validating Bourousis. And of course the obvious fact that he plays in the nba and was born in the USA.

Well, they are not part of the Golden Troika and Friends so fans driven by the media driven by the federation driven by the golden boys, blame the rest for bad games, global warming, the crisis in Syria etc.

 

[Raz2]

Come on guys.Really now?Are we watching different sports?I'm not discrediting Koufos,if anything he contributes many things and he is crucial,especially in this NT,but I'm just stating the obvious.Koufos cannot attack and defend at the post at all and his touches around the rim are those of an amateur.Don't tell me you haven't seen him miss alone under the basket.It's just that it makes me sad when I remember what a player he was in his youth years.

 

[Perseus19662]

i agree with you but also i see this

http://www.eurobasket2015.org/en/pa...9le2.season_2015.roundID_9322.teamID_291.html

Koufos is third scorer ,first in rebounds ,especially offensives.

 

[ncjazz2]

Come on guys.Really now?Are we watching different sports?I'm not discrediting Koufos,if anything he contributes many things and he is crucial,especially in this NT,but I'm just stating the obvious.Koufos cannot attack and defend at the post at all and his touches around the rim are those of an amateur.Don't tell me you haven't seen him miss alone under the basket.It's just that it makes me sad when I remember what a player he was in his youth years.

Good enough for him to be making a crapload of money with Sacramento. He has really improved over the last few years and is still pretty young even if he does not really look it.

 

[fasoulaki2]

The only thing I can come up with is by discrediting Koufos many feel that they are validating Bourousis. And of course the obvious fact that he plays in the nba and was born in the USA.

You accuse others to have prejudices towards Greek-Americans but at the same time you are not judging Koufos performance objective yourself.
I do not know about the motives others have and I can only talk for myself.
First I am born and raised myself outside of Greece and I do not give a shit where someone has been born, the color of his skin, his political, religious, or team affiliation.
A greek is a greek if he feels greek. Thats the end of the story from my perspective.

Now regarding Bouroussis the Thessallian Donkey Giant, I criticized him a lot in the past, especially for his performance in 2012 during the OQT.
See yourself if you like http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?18205-2012-Greek-NT

I hate his off-the-court behavior. He really lacks maturity and I.Q. in some moments. I hate his Center-Point-Guard ambitions on the court and he lacks athleticism.
But I think he has some decent post moves, a good three for a big man and knows to pass the ball in the correct moment.

Koufos on the other hand is the better athelete, can jump, block shots, grap rebounds. He plays a nice PnR and is unstoppable in transition. In a static game though he seems lost. He is not able to outplay the defending center to successfully score under the basket. In addition it seems that he has no eye for his team mates. If he gets the ball near the basket he wants to score even if he is not able to. Instead he should pass the ball to someone in a better position.

If this happens 4-5 times in a row, Greece looses stability and momentum.

usagree please feel free to correct my observations but please not from a putative Amercian-Greeks vs European-Greeks clash perspective.

 

[Raz2]

@Perseus
That's why I said he contributes many things.That doesn't mean that he is a talented player.He is one of the most untalented players I have seen in the game.But he really IS very useful.

@ncjazz
Depends on what you call improvement.Because Koufos at youth level was a joy to behold.He was phenomenal.Now,he's been turned into a muscleman,that can't even hold the ball right.

 

[usagre2]

E

You accuse others to have prejudices towards Greek-Americans but at the same time you are not judging Koufos performance objective yourself.
I do not know about the motives others have and I can only talk for myself.
First I am born and raised myself outside of Greece and I do not give a shit where someone has been born, the color of his skin, his political, religious, or team affiliation.
A greek is a greek if he feels greek. Thats the end of the story from my perspective.

Now regarding Bouroussis the Thessallian Donkey Giant, I criticized him a lot in the past, especially for his performance in 2012 during the OQT.
See yourself if you like http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?18205-2012-Greek-NT

I hate his off-the-court behavior. He really lacks maturity and I.Q. in some moments. I hate his Center-Point-Guard ambitions on the court and he lacks athleticism.
But I think he has some decent post moves, a good three for a big man and knows to pass the ball in the correct moment.

Koufos on the other hand is the better athelete, can jump, block shots, grap rebounds. He plays a nice PnR and is unstoppable in transition. In a static game though he seems lost. He is not able to outplay the defending center to successfully score under the basket. In addition it seems that he has no eye for his team mates. If he gets the ball near the basket he wants to score even if he is not able to. Instead he should pass the ball to someone in a better position.

If this happens 4-5 times in a row, Greece looses stability and momentum.

usagree please feel free to correct my observations but please not from a putative Amercian-Greeks vs European-Greeks clash perspective.

I do not disagree with your player analysis. But it is undeniable that the Greek-American nba bias exists by many Greek posters. It becomes evident with the nit picking of Koufos and Calathes who have been positives thus far in this tournament.

 

[buzz2]

It was the first game that Spanoulis-Calathes duo seemed to work really well today and it happened also against the biggest pressure on our guardline this year.

ONLY when giannis was not in the court

 

[fasoulaki2]

E
I do not disagree with your player analysis. But it is undeniable that the Greek-American nba bias exists by many Greek posters. It becomes evident with the nit picking of Koufos and Calathes who have been positives thus far in this tournament.

Me personally I can only admit the NBA bias!
Regarding Calathes I do not see any reason to criticise him. I like his passing and defensive abilities very much and he found his shoot in the game against Georgia. There is a lack of chemistry with Spanoulis but the situation becomes better day after day and at the end it is the coach'S responsibility to identify which player combination works best.

 

[aenaon2]

it is undeniable that the Greek-American nba bias exists by many Greek posters. It becomes evident with the nit picking of Koufos and Calathes who have been positives thus far in this tournament.

It is undeniable only if you want it to be, or like we say in Greece, if you have the fly you get the fly

Nick Galis was born and raised there, is a God here.
Spanoulis was until recently a curse bin, no matter what he did, it wasn't enough, he had seen Galis playing, he should do more
Papanikolaou was on NBA, is not playing because he currently sucks, but we want him in, he tries hard and that is appreciated.
In Koufos it is sad to realize that our hopes became our fears. Instead of putting muscle on a versatile player, he became a bodyguard. We are mad because he can be so much more, he was so much more when playing for the nt at youth levels. He is good though, our best big, but that is irrelevant.
Calathes has to prove himself, while in Greece he played with the best, diamantidis, so he was good, but it looks like he cannot think fast enough for top euro level, it is frustrating.
Giannis is a phenomenal athlete, but I would like to understand what those couple of years in the NBA gave to him that time alone wouldn't. He has not improved on fundamentals of basketball, he seems to know how to dunk better though. But ok, we will wait, he is still young and gives a fight, he is ok.

Anyway, what I want to say, is that we don't criticize based on where one was born, we are all Greeks, but based on what one could achieve, based on our point of view. Our point of view is to give a fight, try hard like it is an important thing, not a silly game. Defending with your eyeballs, passing to the invisible man and all that, are a problem

 

[Adon2]

Rule of thumb would say, that whenever you think a game reffed by Luigi Lamonica was reffed correctly then Luigi must have given the team you like the benefit of the whistle. There is no such thing as a good reffed game, when Lamonica is involved, its just a question of which team gets the shaft, or if they both do lol.

lol just a reproduction of popular mythology. Btw I have defended Lamonica in this forum many times in the past, in most of them I was just a neutral observer. And I have never whined for the refs when my team loses.
But I have to admit that when a nonsense is repeated frequently, it creates a reality of its own.

 

[Raz2]

Agree with Aenaon,except for the Calathes part.In my opinion whenever he plays for the NT we become much better.He would be in any roster,except maybe France's and USA's.As for Antetokounmpo,I couldn't agree more.

 

[CoachZ2]

Agree with Aenaon,except for the Calathes part.In my opinion whenever he plays for the NT we become much better.He would be in any roster,except maybe France's and USA's.As for Antetokounmpo,I couldn't agree more.

He would be in French backcourt before Serbian.

 

[Adon2]

E
But it is undeniable that the Greek-American nba bias exists by many Greek posters.

Perhaps you have a prejudice with this matter and you should stop fighting windmills.

 

[Raz2]

He would be in French backcourt before Serbian.

Implying that Markovic and Milosavljevic are better?That's borderline trolling.Anyway.

 

[CoachZ2]

Implying that Markovic and Milosavljevic are better?That's borderline trolling.Anyway.

Markovic is a defensive specialist. He sucks on offense but is bar none the best defender in the Team (way better than Calathes) and one of the best at that in Europe. That's his role, also he can create a bit as well. Teodosic, Bogdanovic, Markovic, Nedovic is guard rotation. Milosavljevic play SF mostly, he is a SG/SF tweener and actually replaces Kalinic in the lineup. So that spot is not there for Calathes, he is a combo PG/SG. So yes he would've not made the team unless we take 3 PGs. In France he would be a clear No. 2 PG behind Parker.

 

[Athens Hardcore2]

Markovic is in Mantzaris' tier(and mold ofc).Slightly better defender,slightly better passer,slightly better ball handler,worse shooter,both can't score for shit.Both are role players/defensive specialists,useful to have for a 15 minute role but nothing more.

I must have missed the turning point in Nedovic' career and when exactly he became better than Calathes,I gotta admit.Just because there is some untapped potential I guess.Anyway,I'm looking forward to watch him this year in Unicaja but for the time being Calathes is better than Nedovic and only a Serb would argue otherwise tbh.
And this is a comparison I make way before wearing my green-white glasses on.

ps:Fit and individual ability are 2 way different things,so it's realy pointless to discuss it furthermore.Just because Markovic is precious for this Serbian team,it doesn't mean that can hold Calathes' jock from a head2head comparison standpoint.

 

[CoachZ2]

Markovic is in Mantzaris' tier(and mold ofc).Slightly better defender,slightly better passer,slightly better ball handler,worse shooter,both can't score for shit.Both are role players/defensive specialists,useful to have for a 15 minute role but nothing more.

I must have missed the turning point in Nedovic' career and when exactly he became better than Calathes,I gotta admit.Just because there is some untapped potential I guess.Anyway,I'm looking forward to watch him this year in Unicaja but for the time being Calathes is better than Nedovic and only a Serb would argue otherwise tbh.
And this is a comparison I make way before wearing my green-white glasses on.

ps:Fit and individual ability are 2 way different things,so it's realy pointless to discuss it furthermore.Just because Markovic is precious for this Serbian team,it doesn't mean that can hold Calathes' jock from a head2head comparison standpoint.

There is truth in some things you write but being a part of backcourt includes roles. Without Markovic on D at G we lose a lot as a team. He plays closer to 25 minutes a game (we play 2 PG setts with him and Teo a lot + he plays as a lead PG when Bogdanovic/Nedovic are at 2 and Teo rests). That's what I just said, for us he is much better and more important than Calathes.

That's why I said France, since outside of Parker and De Colo, everyone else is a significant drop and Calathes would be an easier fit. He would even fit better in the Spanish backcourt for small ball.

Nothing against Calathes, I like him as a player.