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QF2: Germany - Greece

  • Thread starter Thread starter Levenspiel2
  • Start date Start date

QF2: Germany - Greece

  • Total voters
    16
Valexander said:
regarding the development system, and considering all the objective or subjective disabilities, you were U18 and U20 world and european champion, in '15 and 17 respectively.
What happened to them is an other story, that doesn't have to do with the development system.
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It's pretty easy to dominate youth teams if you play through sophisticated plays and all other teams try to promote individual talent. If anything, it shows exactly what I've been pointing out this past week about how development works in Greece.

If the development process worked as it should, a good U20 player should already be playing for the men's team btw. Luka was busy getting an actual European Championship in 2017 for example :p
 
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Valexander said:
regarding the development system, and considering all the objective or subjective disabilities, you were U18 and U20 world and european champion, in '15 and 17 respectively.
What happened to them is an other story, that doesn't have to do with the development system.
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I agree. Moreover tall Greek guys usually first try to play basket and only afterwards if not talented they choose other sports.

Elsewhere the first choice is much more variable including volleyball, athletics, handball, swimming and much more. In Greece basket still enjoys a popularity unimaginable for any other European country. Lack of money is one of the problems but absolutely not the only one.
The Greek championship is too weak and as it has already been written the two dominating teams behave very stupidly. One example, Pana brought back a young talent loaned(Hougaz) who was playing well developing his skills, in the middle of the season!! Of course he didn't help at all neither the team nor himself.
 
Some people are overanalysing. Greece is one of the best teams in the world. Quite likely better than Germany in a series or perhaps on a neutral court. That said, Germany played an amazing game and beat Greece most deservedly. Good momentum, home court advantage and and the underdog position allowed Germany to play at a very high level for 40 minutes.

Congratulations to Germany. They are new among the medal candidates. I hope they will win the title.
 
Victorious said:
Greece is one of the best teams in the world. Quite likely better than Germany in a series or perhaps on a neutral court.
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I disagree strongly. A team which does not shoot threes constantly cannot be considered one of the best teams in the world but only mediocre.
 
By the way the reason why Schroeder got his second technical foul was that he put his hands into his shorts and was screaming something against the assistant coach of the bucks expelled from the game. You can see it at 2:27:22 of the magentasport replay.
 
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fasoulaki said:
I disagree strongly. A team which does not shoot threes constantly cannot be considered one of the best teams in the world but only mediocre.
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This is a myth. Greece is average to good in 3-point shooting. They were shooting 35% 3p per game. The same is true for the previous few tournaments. In comparison, when Greece won the Eurobasket in 2005, the team was shooting 25.4%. That team eliminated the US a year later. In another comparison, the Milwaukee Bucks were shooting 36.6% last year.

There are some non-truths created on this forum. Greece is not a bad shooting team.

Any good team can beat any team in their home court. Germany has great momentum and plays as an underdog in their home court.

Basketball has changed. The best or most talented teams do not necessary go far into the tournament. Much the same as football (soccer) in the last decade. That's because many average underdog teams are good enough to beat the favorites.
 
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Red_Butler said:
There is hardly anything easier than quantifying a team's shooting qualities.

https://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2022/teamstats
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Judging by the quality of your play makers and even Giannis gravity many guys couldnt make many uncontested shots. Its because neither Calathes nor Papanik nor Petrou are acceptable shooters. Giannis also shot too many for his current skill set. Dorsey and Sloukas are the only good shooters on this team and Dorsey doesnt see anything else than the rim. Sometimes he doesnt even see the rim actually.
 
Toruko said:
Judging by the quality of your play makers and even Giannis gravity many guys couldnt make many uncontested shots. Its because neither Calathes nor Papanik nor Petrou are acceptable shooters. Giannis also shot too many for his current skill set. Dorsey and Sloukas are the only good shooters on this team and Dorsey doesnt see anything else than the rim. Sometimes he doesnt even see the rim actually.
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Last Eurobasket in 2017 Greece was third in 3p field goal percentage, without Giannis. Most of the players are average. But they are almost ALL average. So at the end of the day the percentages are decent. Personally, I don't like basketball teams who relly too much on shooting threes.
 
Victorious said:
This is a myth. Greece is average to good in 3-point shooting. They were shooting 35% 3p per game. The same is true for the previous few tournaments. In comparison, when Greece won the Eurobasket in 2005, the team was shooting 25.4%. That team eliminated the US a year later. In another comparison, the Milwaukee Bucks were shooting 36.6% last year.

There are some non-truths created on this forum. Greece is not a bad shooting team.

Any good team can beat any team in their home court. Germany has great momentum and plays as an underdog in their home court.

Basketball has changed. The best or most talented teams do not necessary go far into the tournament. Much the same as football (soccer) in the last decade. That's because many average underdog teams are good enough to beat the favorites.
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This is true, they finished the tournament with 73/209 which is 35%.

But in the last two decisive games 3pt shots were 21/68, 30,9%.

This percentage does not condemn you automatically but when you shoot 34 3pts a game it becomes a problem. I believe that when you have at your disposal the adetokounbo family (Why didn't Kostas play more, no one knows) you should attack the paint much more than it actually happened.

In fact I found Itoudis coaching quite disappointing.
 
Victorious said:
Last Eurobasket in 2017 Greece was third in 3p field goal percentage, without Giannis. Most of the players are average. But they are almost ALL average. So at the end of the day the percentages are decent. Personally, I don't like basketball teams who relly too much on shooting threes.
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Welcome to the new basketball reality then. Is this clear to you that you have the best player on the planet on your roster right now and that you lost probably the only timeslot to win something with him?
 
Toruko said:
Welcome to the new basketball reality then. Is this clear to you that you have the best player on the planet on your roster right now and that you lost probably the only timeslot to win something with him?
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I predicted that Greece would end up in the quarter finals even before the tournament started. That's because a new coach needs time. Greece could win medals even with weaker rosters provided that there is more continuation.
 
The Eye Test says Greece is bad shooting team. But Victorious is right. Greece has never been below average. Additionally we have quite a lot players wo can shoot decend on any given day.

One loss in an elimination Game does not change that. And of course Greece has the better roster than Germany. We just shit the bed (again).

After following the Greek National Team for decades I have found the reason for our failures. And it is CONSISTANCY or better the lack of it.

We have changed the Coach nearly every year since 2010. Every year new coach. Roster changes etc. Absolutely no consisctany.

On the other hand the most successfull teams like Spain and France have their coaches (and system) for nearly 2 decades.

You see the difference?

Thanasis said: We build something here. We will be back.

If this is not only words, and if Itoudis stays fore some years and Giannis keeps coming to the NT then you will see what kind of a difference this makes.

Sloukas, Calathes are 32 years old. They can play easily 3 more years. There are so many players playing until 35 and much more but the Greek Media makes every 30 year old player an old man.

Larentzakis, Kalaitzakis and may more, there is enough quality to surround Giannis. Additionally Dorsey, Kostas and may be some day Alex will be much better in their second and third appearance.

Giannis can easily play until he is 33-34 without losing anything if his ability. He is bionic and his work ethic is Kobe-like.

We will be good don't worry.

Continuation and everything will be good. No need to overreact after a loss against a team that played way beyond their level.
 
Victorious said:
Basketball has changed.
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Yes basketball has changed. It seems that nowadays to win games you have to shoot consistently so in every game with good percentage >30%.
Good average shooting performance is not sufficient.
 
During Giannis period Greece needs to have 4 shooters around him. To maximize his strengths you need to spread court, otherwise he is ineffective. Remember when Aco Petrović gambeld and let Giannis and Chalates to shoot in Olympics qualifications. And on other side it must be athletic team that can defend. You can't get 107 points and except to win. This is far from their indentity. And third Greece now has problems with depth that for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
 
pohani komarac said:
During Giannis period Greece needs to have 4 shooters around him. To maximize his strengths you need to spread court, otherwise he is ineffective. Remember when Aco Petrović gambeld and let Giannis and Chalates to shoot in Olympics qualifications. And on other side it must be athletic team that can defend. You can't get 107 points and except to win. This is far from their indentity. And third Greece now has problems with depth that for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
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I was at this Game in Turin. All I can remeber is that Croatia was shooting 3s permanently (and hitting them). When the percentage dropped you nearly lost the Game. Nevertheless this is 6 years ago and Giannis has evolved a lot since then
Unfortunately we went out of time to come back again.

I don't see why we have a problem with depth. How many teams in Europe have guards like Calathes, Sloukas and Dorsey? How may have experienced Euroleague Forwards like Papanikolaou, Papapetrou, Aggravanis? How many have Centers like Kostas Antetetokoumpo and Papagiannis.

We are not talking about Tier 1 Players but nevertheless solid Euroleague Level.

Combined with Giannis this seems more than good to me.

We failed big time against a solid team with a historic performance. I am 100% sure that a Series of 7 Games will end up with a Greek Victory. So one loss in the wrong moment makes our Roster thin and the quality dissapears suddenly?
That's a wrong conclusion.

This team lost in OT against a full Serbian Roster in an Do or Die Game in Belgrade. Serbia may have been stunned by Italy but still this team has the best Roster and quality.

We won against Italy and Croatia went 6-0 until we fell to Germany. People must be more patient with their conclusions.

As long as we have the best Player in the World we are good enough to beat anyone. The question is if this Roster is good enough to win severall Elemination Games one after another.
Obviously not. My conclusion is still that the lack of continuation in coaching staff and new players was a big thing.
 
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