Players that we can have naturalized

[analyzed2]

^^
So can you name another country aside from the Philippines or at least 5 countries (2% of 200 federations) that have either requested for the U16 rule to be reconsidered or requested for an exception for a player who secured his passport over 20 yrs old?
Where is this significant protest or misgivings of the rule?

 

[lurklurk2]

I think our citizenship laws were made stringent for a reason. One country cannot just legislate laws or even replace its constitution in favor of a rules (i haven't heard of anything like that, if there is one tell me). With conflicts between laws and organization rules one must adjust, I think this has been addressed by the case of Belize v. FIBA already.

Both FIBA and FIBA eligibility rules had been a subject of controversy and was brought to Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). The difference is FIBA lost it's case against Belize while FIFA won it's case against Morocco. I think this example alone, speaks volumes about factual and legal basis.

Not talking about legislations sir, just programs or structures implemented by SBP. If it is true that the spirit of hagop rule is to encourage nations to build their local development programs, SBP should follow that spirit and implement programs aligned to the same objective. Problem is, SBP's inaction itself is (sort of) encouraging the complaints.

 

[Alex072]

Not talking about legislations sir, just programs or structures implemented by SBP. If it is true that the spirit of hagop rule is to encourage nations to build their local development programs, SBP should follow that spirit and implement programs aligned to the same objective. Problem is, SBP's inaction itself is (sort of) encouraging the complaints.

please provide for the article How the rules were made,otherwise we they are just speculations

 

[Alex072]

^^
So can you name another country aside from the Philippines or at least 5 countries (2% of 200 federations) that have either requested for the U16 rule to be reconsidered or requested for an exception for a player who secured his passport over 20 yrs old?
Where is this significant protest or misgivings of the rule?

you have failed to analyze the numbers countries are following jus sanguini principle as compared to jus soli.That being said,there are still controversies that needs to be solved through arbitration,which meant that this problem is actual and existing and not just imaginary.

Lets put it this way,the eligibility rule is like obliging a player to eat pork,now not everyone may not be able to eat pork because there are religions and countries practicing a religion that discourages the consumption of that meat.Now one may contend, not all the population of that country are practicing that religion,true,but How rare are those people? And you have to choose the best people that could play among those chosen few. It's the same with the eligible Filipino foreign kids that acquired a passport before 16.They have the same birth right as those who were born in the Philippines (Yes because they are considered natural born citizens and not naturalized citizens),why not Let them play for their country? Because they were trained abroad?

 

[Silent Killer2]

After close to 10 years, people haven't move on from the hagop rule. We're the only country who continues to complain about the rule while others are taking advantage of the rule and already move on

 

[analyzed2]

you have failed to analyze the numbers countries are following jus sanguini principle as compared to jus soli.That being said,there are still controversies that needs to be solved through arbitration,which meant that this problem is actual and existing and not just imaginary.

Lets put it this way,the eligibility rule is like obliging a player to eat pork,now not everyone may not be able to eat pork because there are religions and countries practicing a religion that discourages the consumption of that meat.Now one may contend, not all the population of that country are practicing that religion,true,but How rare are those people? And you have to choose the best people that could play among those chosen few. It's the same with the eligible Filipino foreign kids that acquired a passport before 16.They have the same birth right as those who were born in the Philippines (Yes because they are considered natural born citizens and not naturalized citizens),why not Let them play for their country? Because they were trained abroad?

I know your position and idealogy on the matter and i respect it and it's logical. I prefer to focus on practical steps to make us competitive given the established rule . i don't like the FIBA goal tending rule , but no choice we have to plan steps to play to take advantage of the established rule

 

[analyzed2]

Agree with both of your points analyzed, that's why we are looking at SBP to provide leadership in terms creating such programs. There are actually a lot of ideas for programs, all equally viable and will provide direction for philippine basketball. But sadly, all such ideas are coming from forum/fb posts. Nothing from SBP itself.

The part of recruiting a 6'8 above teenage foreigner (Kouame) and a 15 yr old 6'5 fil foreigner (Mason Amos) sponsored by a school (Ateneo) booster (MVP) is actually already being done. While a small step , we should have more of this approach. that's how you plan to take advantage of an established rule. If others are doing it , why not us, we have to get on with our steps and plan of action or else be left behind wyning about how we're unfairly disadvantaged

 

[tootch2]

i hope SBP should look 6’10” Christian Wood of detroit pistons. one of my favorite underrated players in the NBA. long and athletic

 

[Alex072]

i hope SBP should look 6’10” Christian Wood of detroit pistons. one of my favorite underrated players in the NBA. long and athletic

yep, i posted this also before when he was still in the G league.I heard he tested positive for Covid-19, i don't know any news after that

 

[Money2]

i hope SBP should look 6’10” Christian Wood of detroit pistons. one of my favorite underrated players in the NBA. long and athletic

If inaturalize yan dapat now na. Free Agent yan this summer as far as i remember. habang mababa pa value.

 

[live_evil2]

let's make it really simple: put Blatche, Douthit, Japeth, Kai, Greg, Asi, and Junemar in a paradise island with Shakey's V League Players, get them all drunk. Let nature run its course. Asian Basketball supremacy in 20 years. haha

 

[lurklurk2]

The part of recruiting a 6'8 above teenage foreigner (Kouame) and a 15 yr old 6'5 fil foreigner (Mason Amos) sponsored by a school (Ateneo) booster (MVP) is actually already being done. While a small step , we should have more of this approach. that's how you plan to take advantage of an established rule. If others are doing it , why not us, we have to get on with our steps and plan of action or else be left behind wyning about how we're unfairly disadvantaged

Recruitment of both Kouame and Amos is a good step, but as you mentioned, they are small steps. 1 recruit every 3 to 4 years hardly counts as a program. Then you factor in that it is sponsored by the same school, people can say that this is more of a product of Ateneo's recruitment program than SBP's initiative.

I'm hoping there's more of a sustainable program from SBP where all kinds of sponsors/schools can participate for recruitment, or all trainers/sports academies can join for player development. Then it can foster a healthy competition for local stakeholders which will expedite the development of philippines basketball in both recruitment and player development.

 

[k3ttch2]

^^
So can you name another country aside from the Philippines or at least 5 countries (2% of 200 federations) that have either requested for the U16 rule to be reconsidered or requested for an exception for a player who secured his passport over 20 yrs old?
Where is this significant protest or misgivings of the rule?

The Belize case, for one. FIBA got so butthurt that they unilaterally decided that the Court of Arbitration in Sport can no longer be used to decide matters of citizenship.

Plus the Hagop rule, while it makes sense in principle, has been circumvented by the country that it was created to penalize, with Qatar doing things like buying Bosnia's U16 B-team wholesale.

Then there's the case of other sports bodies like FIFA which have laxer citizenship rules.

 

[analyzed2]

The Belize case, for one. FIBA got so butthurt that they unilaterally decided that the Court of Arbitration in Sport can no longer be used to decide matters of citizenship.

Plus the Hagop rule, while it makes sense in principle, has been circumvented by the country that it was created to penalize, with Qatar doing things like buying Bosnia's U16 B-team wholesale.

Then there's the case of other sports bodies like FIFA which have laxer citizenship rules.

That was more than 10 years ago, when there was still much reservation with the new rule, even the Philippines in 2011 didn't really understand the implications

In the last 4 years when the rule has reached a level of establishment, who has been protesting (officially) or even publicly?

For all of Qatar's workarounds, where are they?

Different bodies and organisations have different eligibility rules, does not mean what works for one should be used by the other

 

[analyzed2]

Recruitment of both Kouame and Amos is a good step, but as you mentioned, they are small steps. 1 recruit every 3 to 4 years hardly counts as a program. Then you factor in that it is sponsored by the same school, people can say that this is more of a product of Ateneo's recruitment program than SBP's initiative.

I'm hoping there's more of a sustainable program from SBP where all kinds of sponsors/schools can participate for recruitment, or all trainers/sports academies can join for player development. Then it can foster a healthy competition for local stakeholders which will expedite the development of philippines basketball in both recruitment and player development.

That's exactly the point, more and majority need to get on with things and do practical steps to be more competive given the established rule. Rather than continue whining

 

[sajubeads2]

let's make it really simple: put Blatche, Douthit, Japeth, Kai, Greg, Asi, and Junemar in a paradise island with Shakey's V League Players, get them all drunk. Let nature run its course. Asian Basketball supremacy in 20 years. haha

You're such a bad bad man bro

 

[mathematicianrcg2]

let's make it really simple: put Blatche, Douthit, Japeth, Kai, Greg, Asi, and Junemar in a paradise island with Shakey's V League Players, get them all drunk. Let nature run its course. Asian Basketball supremacy in 20 years. haha

1. We are not sure if their kids will be Men/Boys.

2.We are not sure if they will play basketball. I mean if they want to be a pro basketball player. They could be volleyball player, or any other sports player.

3. We are not sure if they wil be good. Look at Marlou and his son Matt. In contrast, look at ervin and his son Kai. The skills of father will not be neccesary be adapted by his son. He could be better or worse.

4. We could have BAD karma for that.

5. We could do something better than that. Besided our youth plauers are starting to be taller than their past counter parts

 

[live_evil2]

if they are girls, send them to Perlas. If they don't play basketball, other sports will benefit. Marlou is a horrible teacher. Lazy. Biology is not subject to karma. hahaha

 

[lurklurk2]

That's exactly the point, more and majority need to get on with things and do practical steps to be more competive given the established rule. Rather than continue whining

No, the point is SBP is not leading this initiative. People whine because we're not hearing anything from SBP--no public support of Cabagnot and co's Fil-am select program, no encouragement/endorsement of prospects to overseas training facilities like EWP, no mandate to local stakeholders to raise their standards for training and development, etc. All we hear from SBP is 2023 World Cup and the number of ways COVID is limiting their preparations.

 

[analyzed2]

No, the point is SBP is not leading this initiative. People whine because we're not hearing anything from SBP--no public support of Cabagnot and co's Fil-am select program, no encouragement/endorsement of prospects to overseas training facilities like EWP, no mandate to local stakeholders to raise their standards for training and development, etc. All we hear from SBP is 2023 World Cup and the number of ways COVID is limiting their preparations.

to be clear i was taking about whining about how the Hagop rule is stopping us from competitive not whining about the lack of programs (that's different)