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Players that we can have naturalized

  • Thread starter Thread starter ankle breaker2
  • Start date Start date
just so we're clear, the issues (with their corresponding resolutions) that have been discussed thus far are as follows:

w/n "right of blood" is excluded in the exemption - no, it is not excluded. the 3rd exemption covers a wide variety of exemptions which should include right of blood because it is a generally-accepted principle of international law;

w/n "right of blood" is meaningless in the context of FIBA rules and regulations- no, it is not meaningless. on the contrary, it is more meaningful than fiba would care to admit considering it even allows the so-called "half-bloods" like standhardinger to play in fiba tournaments as naturalized players for their respective teams, a proof that FIBA recognizes, to some extent, the right of blood principle. more so, exemption 3 speaks of "any other criteria capable of establishing a significant link between the player and the country", thus, invoking "right of blood" is as good as any other valid reason; and

w/n arguing along the lines of "right of blood" in the case of JC has strong legal basis- it has strong legal basis. the fact that the present FIBA does not want to recognize it doesn't lessen the strength of the legal argument. it only lessens FIBA as an institution.

now, we can move forward and discuss kouame's naturalization and exemption. unlike the points that have been resolved above, this is only based on my opinion.

at the outset, i'll admit that this is really a clever plan. but if we will operate on the assumption that there are people in FIBA who are inclined to reject JC's exemption due to the undue advantage an NBA player will bring to our team, then this has a snowball's chance in hell as they will just easily see right through this ruse and deny kouame's application outright.

but let's cut fiba some slack and pretend they're very reasonable people. in that case, i will have to say that this might work.
 
Won't argue if FIBA is making the right decisions based on sound legal basis, that's a discussion of legal matters and not how FiBA has been assessing exceptions, note where not talking about eligibility on the 1st instance assessment (which is clearly the Hagop 16 rule)

-so first the fact that heritage players like Standhardinger and Pringle play as naturalize players does in no way suggest that heritage and blood has been used for exceptions on the contrary it shows FiBA does not recognise blood as a valid exception reason (they're consistent with their decisions)

The basis for Kouame exceptin obviously wont be for blood but for residency and years playing locally, which consistently has been approved by FIBA as valid reasons

Again let's not confuse motive because of threat of a good player for other countries to probably complain with the basis of their complaint, if they protest Kouame they can't say the basis of his exemption is not based on consistent reason used (residency and playing yrs locally), that's the difference

Call FIBA s decision criteria flawed legally, but here is the thing it's like applying for a job or a visa, and if your getting accepted or denied for clearly the same reasons. There is no point in arguing why u got rejected, but maybe u can ask a tribunal or HR that the criteria system they're using is flawed
 
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analyzed said:
Won't argue if FIBA is making the right decisions based on sound legal basis, that's a discussion of legal matters and not how FiBA has been assessing exceptions, note where not talking about eligibility on the 1st instance assessment (which is clearly the Hagop 16 rule)

-so first the fact that heritage players like Standhardinger and Pringle play as naturalize players does in no way suggest that heritage and blood has been uses for exceptions on the contrary it shows FiBA does not recognise blood as a valid exception reason (they're consistent with their decision)

The basis for Kouame exceptin obviously wont be for blood but for residency and years playing locally, which consistently has been approved by FIBA as valid reasons

Again let's not confuse motive because of threat of a good player for other countries to probably complain with the basis of their complaint, if they protest Kouame they can't say the basis of his exemption is not based on consistent reason used (residency and playing yrs locally), that's the difference

Call FIBA s decision criteria flawed legally, but here is the thing it's like applying for a job or a visa, and if your getting accepted or denied for clearly the same reasons. There is no point in arguing why u got rejected, but maybe u can ask a tribunal or HR that the criteria system they're using is flawed
Click to expand...

discussions based on legal grounds are inevitably unavoidable when the topic involves a legal matter such as a document that imposes obligations.

fiba recognizes right of blood as an exception to the hagop rule, although the recognition is limited in its scope. if it doesn't recognize it at all, there'll be a total ban on heritage players. this is the interpretation that is more in line with the generally-accepted principles of international law.

now, back to kouame.

player david lisch was naturalized as an australian citizen in 2016 and was able to play in the rio olympics that same year as a local. if FIBA is fair, i think we can make a strong case for kouame. as long as we do not abandon our position on clarkson, then i'm all for it. my only apprehension now is that fiba will do its best to find loopholes. so, to strengthen our position, kouame should be taught tagalog, among other things. we can also strengthen our case if he's legally adopted by his guardians (though a bit extreme) or if he marries a local (not advisable if the girl is not rich and is ugly)

but before anything else, he should be naturalized now.
 
Process of naturalization for Kouame under our laws has started (bill filled)
Additionally documentary evidence of circumstances about adoption, age of expression of intent made with parents approval have all been documented and prepared.
Including adoption of Philippine culture (language etc)

Just a point on the feasibility of using heritage blood as one of reasons for exceptions, to be feasible FIBA has to think about how to apply it to nations with high degree of migrant communities that make up their population, take example Australia or the US, who's majority of population is of European entnicity, so technically speaking anyone in the world with European entnicity with linkages to the say the Australian gene type can be considered as having heritage blood roots to Australia. In the latter example you can see why legal documented papers linked to citizenship is a more feasible approach in determining significant links to the country as indicated as possible "additional" reasons for exception. Emphasis is on additional, not other, residency and # of years playing will still be factored in the decision for exception (which JC gets no points for ) assuming pass mark is 2 out of 3 (67%) JC won't pass even if he gets blood as a point recognized
 
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that's good to hear. so it's pending before the committee on justice in hrep.

i think adoption proceedings will be reliant on the result of the naturalization process.
 
Prospect naturalize players

2021-2027 - Kouame
2023 - Clarkson
2027- Hepa, Green

2017-18.-Standhardinger and Pringle

Welcome to reality
 
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Yup reality is already accepted, hence sbp is pursuing local eligibility of Kouame. If ever Kouame gets the nod, who do you think will be the best big between Kai, Edu and Kouame? Who starts and what might be a better front court duo?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on how they can fare vs:
Japan - Fazekas plus Hachimura
China - Wang Zhelin and zhou Qi
 
Just on the topic 1st, for the Asian games when they allow multiple players with passport over 16 years old, there is actually no distinction between a player who was naturalize that has heritage blood like Pringle and Clarkson with naturalize players like Doulthit and Ractlift, the two if naturalize for the same country could play together in the Asian games.
 
DenzelGreat8 said:
Yup reality is already accepted, hence sbp is pursuing local eligibility of Kouame. If ever Kouame gets the nod, who do you think will be the best big between Kai, Edu and Kouame? Who starts and what might be a better front court duo?

Lastly, what are your thoughts on how they can fare vs:
Japan - Fazekas plus Hachimura
China - Wang Zhelin and zhou Qi
Click to expand...

Of course, Kai and Aj. They have chemistry. They compliment each other.

Kouame will be the backup surprise big along with Junmar
 
analyzed said:
Just on the topic 1st, for the Asian games when they allow multiple players with passport over 16 years old, there is actually no distinction between a player who was naturalize that has heritage blood like Pringle and Clarkson with naturalize players like Doulthit and Ractlift, the two if naturalize for the same country could play together in the Asian games.
Click to expand...

Wow. Hope Fiba adapts asian games rules
 
As to question, Kouame I think is strictly a 5, (lacks skill), but maybe the most physical of the 3 due to maturity.
AJ and Kai can easily play both positions (4 and 5), but AJ may be the most comfortable defending the pick and roll and switching laterally on perimeter players.

Kai's easily the best offensive player of the 3 and passer

That didnt answer the question, but you can see all 3 bring something different to the table and seem to compliment each other well.

So I would match up vs the best big in Asia based on their strength, for a a Rui due to speed I'd put AJ, bit for a center like Zhou I would put a physical defender like Kouame, I would save Kai for offense and not put him on a good player where he will get fouls
 
analyzed said:
As to question, Kouame I think is strictly a 5, (lacks skill), but maybe the most physical of the 3 due to maturity.
AJ and Kai can easily play both positions (4 and 5), but AJ may be the most comfortable defending the pick and roll and switching laterally on perimeter players.

Kai's easily the best offensive player of the 3 and passer

That didnt answer the question, but you can see all 3 bring something different to the table and seem to compliment each other well.

So I would match up vs the best big in Asia based on their strength, for a a Rui due to speed I'd put AJ, bit for a center like Zhou I would put a physical defender like Kouame, I would save Kai for offense and not put him on a good player where he will get fouls
Click to expand...

Do you think Gilas will have the best front court trio in Asia come fiba world 2023? Only guy I worried about is AJ since he relies so much on shiftiness and athleticism. We all know ACL is not a joke lalo na for a tall player like him.
 
^^
Don't know, but I would say this if the 3, with JC play in the Asia Cup next year, I really think we have a good chance of winning the title (note Australia probably won't field their NBA players reserving them for the Olympics), note also if Kouame is naturalized, him and JC can play in the 2022 Asian games, and yes we can win Gold finally!
These tournaments are actually more relevant for us if we're comparing us to Asian teams, cause the 2023 we may not even play an Asian team

Our biggest weapon is JC, I honestly don't see anyone in Asia stopping him, as long as we're decent inside, our chances are good
 
BTW Remy can also play in the Asian games.
JC and Remy backcourt will kill Asia!
 
analyzed said:
BTW Remy can also play in the Asian games.
JC and Remy backcourt will kill Asia!
Click to expand...

Our problem with Asian games is that NBA dont release their players for that tournament. Zhou qi and clarkson are 1 time exceptions only for 2018. This is if we factor that kai, jc, and remy are all in the NBA come 2022.

Also lets see about that. We already saw a JC and Pringle back court and we got killed by Kim the Korean PG the last time.
 
analyzed said:
^^
Don't know, but I would say this if the 3, with JC play in the Asia Cup next year, I really think we have a good chance of winning the title (note Australia probably won't field their NBA players reserving them for the Olympics), note also if Kouame is naturalized, him and JC can play in the 2022 Asian games, and yes we can win Gold finally!
These tournaments are actually more relevant for us if we're comparing us to Asian teams, cause the 2023 we may not even play an Asian team

Our biggest weapon is JC, I honestly don't see anyone in Asia stopping him, as long as we're decent inside, our chances are good
Click to expand...

Hope that sbp files for the local exception of Kouame this 2021 fiba asia cup already.
 
DenzelGreat8 said:
Our problem with Asian games is that NBA dont release their players for that tournament. Zhou qi and clarkson are 1 time exceptions only for 2018. This is if we factor that kai, jc, and remy are all in the NBA come 2022.

Also lets see about that. We already saw a JC and Pringle back court and we got killed by Kim the Korean PG the last time.
Click to expand...

Because Yeng's team didn't know how to defend the shooters of Korea. And our front court couldnt contain ratcliffe.
 
analyzed said:
Another clear example of a player with residency getting an exception, (after 17)

https://pickandroll.com.au/mojave-k...aipans-nba-2021-draft-australian-citizenship/

It's becoming common process, with almost sure certainty that the Greg's, Fotus, Wright's, Spencer, King etc etc are automatically getting exceptions as either players who have residency in country as a minor or played in youth team.. (normal standard process-no suprise and to be expected)
Click to expand...

So technically, Kouame and other college imports can be given exemptions??? Provide they have enough residency here.

If Qatar can still take advantage of the rule? Why we cannot?

Maybe because Qatar can easily give passports while philippines will give you a ton of process just to get one.
 
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