Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Giannis34GOD2]

people actually have to give a reason why someone needs to be naturalized. Ja.he probably knows the details on the how, but Pinoy businesspeople wont randomly pay to naturalized players just to play bball in the Philippines.i cant even imagine how thats economical for them.

right now our NP is Ange and JB only.

But many posters here want Ange to be a local player.. for what reason? Remember we are basketball nation.. we have many talents here, SBP can't even tap the likes of Baltazar, who many sees him as good example of good international size player.. we already have Edu, that can do what Ange can do on the court too.. sana naman we have some sense of pride for being a "basketball country"... Wala din Tayo pinagkaiba sa kanila if we want to do the same what Qataris did.. di ba Tayo nahihiya sa mga tulad ng Mongolia? Who despite being newcomers in Asian basketball, they are trusting their locals to compete and not using any naturalized players even it is allowed to do so... Please stop dreaming for Kouame's local status... Buti kung sana we are not basketball nation... We can do that..

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

no exact basis. its an exemption. so its wholly under the discretion of the secgen. most of the recent exemptions can easily defended by "exempting these players promotes basketball" to those countries. Qatar, Taiwan, and Bahamas. bball isnt a thing in those countries. adding whoever players they request does add more marketing for the sport.

Taiwan's second sport is basketball, actually popularity of basketball and baseball is almost the same.. Bahamas most popular sport is basketball.. so it's invalid to say basketball is not a thing there...

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

also for fuck's sake, the guy is already speaking using fucking fluent tagalog man. If that is not another factor to consider him a local, i dont know anymore. Hahahahaha. ​​​

Are you have a pride? We are basketball nation and our line up is full of foreign players.. Stephon Marbury already live in China and he's speaking mandarin but China knows that they have to prioritize their local talents... Why so special about Kouame? He can't even lift Meralco in EASL.. better focus QMB's inclusion, try to invite Geo Chiu, or even Carino.. better accept those who have Pinoy blood on it.. mas katanggap tanggap Yan...

 

[sroth38392]

Are you have a pride? We are basketball nation and our line up is full of foreign players.. Stephon Marbury already live in China and he's speaking mandarin but China knows that they have to prioritize their local talents... Why so special about Kouame? He can't even lift Meralco in EASL.. better focus QMB's inclusion, try to invite Geo Chiu, or even Carino.. better accept those who have Pinoy blood on it.. mas katanggap tanggap Yan...

Ange was a big factor in our gold medal win against Jordan in the Asiad.

Tab said it himself that Al-Dwairi hated dealing with Ange.

It’s nice to have another big. We need Japs to retire after all.

 

[Silent Killer2]

Imagine Brownlee playing as local here in the PBA, it will be a huge disadvantage for other teams, especially those who are low budget teams that can't afford to naturalized those kind of players.. and what will happen to our local development if we allow them to play as locals here? Playing here as an FSA or import is ok, but become as locals? So what is the essence to be a basketball nation of we can't develop local players?

Tell that to b.league..

 

[IPC2]

how can you say its more than enough? Mike Philllips and Abassi are 2 different cases
Abassi is of Senegalese and American background, born in Japan, but grew up in Taiwan. i dont know where he went for Primary educ but he atleast went to Taiwanese HS were he learned bball.He has no Taiwanese blood, but grew up there. he had no legally way to get passport until later on. despite that, Taiwan league see him as a local.
Mike is a filam. He had chance to get passport but for whatever reason, he didnt till he got recruited by DLSU.

I am not saying I dont want Mike to get exempted. but i want to highlight they are 2 difference cases.

Abassi and Ange are far more similar. except Ange is not treated as a local by any professional league in the Philippines. if Pinoy leagues dont treat him as a local, why would the international league do that?

Yeah... Kouame can't get local status if the main league here, the PBA can't make him as local.. and I think we have to forget him to be a local player.. it will hurt the development of Philippine basketball as whole than good.. if we push Kouame as local in the PBA, it will be a precedent to other teams in any leagues to do that... Imagine Ginebra will push brownlee to be a local player, SMB will push Boatwright to be a local player, etc ... Do you think it will be a good development to our basketball program, especially our local players as whole? Better focus on Fil-foreigners to push as a local players who are not eligible in FIBA...

So whose specific development will be affected? Give me specific examples or types of players. Will the players whose development will be affected be useful in FIBA? Do we have a surplus of those types of players?

Imagine Brownlee playing as local here in the PBA, it will be a huge disadvantage for other teams, especially those who are low budget teams that can't afford to naturalized those kind of players.. and what will happen to our local development if we allow them to play as locals here? Playing here as an FSA or import is ok, but become as locals? So what is the essence to be a basketball nation of we can't develop local players?

OK, JB's a do-it-all 6'6" wing who can be a go-to guy. Ange is a 6'11" paint protector. Bennie is a FIBA-sized forward. How many locals, FIBA-eligible or no, do we have in the PBA that can fill their role? How many FIBA-quality players, or even starter-quality players, does the PBA have at 3, 4, and 5?

As far as I know:
June Mar and Japeth are the only FIBA-sized centers in the PBA as of now.
Only Japeth, Erram, Balti, and maybe June Mar and Carino can protect the rim at a good enough level as of now.
Troy, Perkins, Hodge, Louie Sangalang, Ian Sangalang, Balti, Keith Datu, Cade Flores, Kai Ballungay, and maybe Leonard Santillan are the starting-quality players at 4.
Arvin, Navarro, Oftana, Lucero, David, and hopefully Malonzo are the only starter-quality 6'5"+ SF's in the PBA as of now. Of that lot, Navarro, Oftana, and Zav can defend, and Arvin can carry the scoring load.
194cm Ken Tuffin is a starter-level wing that can defend.
Abueva's the only SF under 6'4" I know that can competently play 3 at the FIBA level without being too overmatched.

The 3, 4, and 5 are the positions that the imports usually fill. Now as for the incoming players, how many can be big wings who can score and/or defend, or interior defenders at the 5?

I think the PBA's lacking in FIBA-sized starter-quality players at the 3 and 5 spots. Specifically, lacking in 6'5" wings that can score, defend, and/or be 3-and-D players, and FIBA-sized centers who can protect the paint. I think it would make sense if naturalized players and former FSA's were incorporated as local players.

Now, as for development in the 3, 4, and 5 positions, which the imports fill in the PBA, I have a few questions:

How many local 196cm (6'5")+ players can carry the scoring load from the 3 spot?
How many local 196cm+ players can defend the wing?
How many local 196cm+ players can shoot?
How many local 196cm+ players can play as 3-and-D wings?
How many local players below 193cm (6'4") have the combination of size, length, foot speed, and skills to play the wing at the FIBA level?
How many local 198-203cm (6'6"-6'8") players can play the 4?
How many local players below 198cm have combination of size, length, foot speed, and skills to play the 4 at the FIBA level?
How many local players can defend the paint in the FIBA level or have the potential to? I'm talking about someone like Kai, AJ, Douthit, even Ange and Japeth.

 

[Silent Killer2]

Are you have a pride? We are basketball nation and our line up is full of foreign players.. Stephon Marbury already live in China and he's speaking mandarin but China knows that they have to prioritize their local talents... Why so special about Kouame? He can't even lift Meralco in EASL.. better focus QMB's inclusion, try to invite Geo Chiu, or even Carino.. better accept those who have Pinoy blood on it.. mas katanggap tanggap Yan...

This proves that Gilas wont have role players as NP.. this kind of post proves some filos rather have blatche, kabayan and brownlee type as NP than a hawkinson, gilbeck..

And will complain if our coach relies too much on brownlee..

 

[thatweirdguy2]

Imagine Brownlee playing as local here in the PBA, it will be a huge disadvantage for other teams, especially those who are low budget teams that can't afford to naturalized those kind of players.. and what will happen to our local development if we allow them to play as locals here? Playing here as an FSA or import is ok, but become as locals? So what is the essence to be a basketball nation of we can't develop local players?

How many NBA players did we developed as a basketball nation? Truth is we suck at developing players. This isn't even about national pride. The only reason they haven't allowed it is as you said, it would give the moneyed teams a huge advantage. Or it would allow the smaller teams to even the playing field by adding one naturalized player.

 

[IPC2]

Are you have a pride? We are basketball nation and our line up is full of foreign players.. Stephon Marbury already live in China and he's speaking mandarin but China knows that they have to prioritize their local talents... Why so special about Kouame? He can't even lift Meralco in EASL.. better focus QMB's inclusion, try to invite Geo Chiu, or even Carino.. better accept those who have Pinoy blood on it.. mas katanggap tanggap Yan...

Ange was a big factor in our gold medal win against Jordan in the Asiad.

Tab said it himself that Al-Dwairi hated dealing with Ange.

It’s nice to have another big. We need Japs to retire after all.

This proves that Gilas wont have role players as NP.. this kind of post proves some filos rather have blatche, kabayan and brownlee type as NP than a hawkinson, gilbeck..

And will complain if our coach relies too much on brownlee..

What's so special about Ange? He can protect the paint in the FIBA level.

How many locals can protect the paint like Ange, Douthit, Kai, AJ, and Japeth?

 

[Rds2]

The problem with Ange's case I think is that NP's are not allowed to play as locals in the local league. In fact NPs like Ange, Douthit and Blatche are actually at a disadvantage because the PBA for the longest time doesn't allow 6'10 and above imports. Actually this conf has no restrictions. But most imports are 6'8. Only one 6'10 I think. Kind of weird but maybe the PBA teams either don't have the budget or don't have access to the better 6'9 and above imports.

 

[lem0nadi2]

Are you have a pride? We are basketball nation and our line up is full of foreign players.. Stephon Marbury already live in China and he's speaking mandarin but China knows that they have to prioritize their local talents... Why so special about Kouame? He can't even lift Meralco in EASL.. better focus QMB's inclusion, try to invite Geo Chiu, or even Carino.. better accept those who have Pinoy blood on it.. mas katanggap tanggap Yan...

What you even mean? I am talking about Mike Philipps lol. So you don't want a fil-am to be local? Crazy. Was talking about him in the first place. I did not even talk about a single thing about Ange.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

That actually is an inaccurate assessment, FIBA just uses the legal basis of what Jus sangunis ( blood relationship ) really means , legally it means relationship to a Citizen or a person from that country ( like a permanent resident). The child of Blatche from an American mother is a blood relationship to a Philippine citizen ( Blatche) regardless if he has zero Filipino entnicity (see the difference). Abassi has a blood relationship to a Taiwanese resident or citizen ( his parents ) despite being fully non Asian , do you get it?

Oh really? What about those Qatari players of Bosnian descent who obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday? Did jus sanguinis applied to them? Obviously not! Obviously the parents of these Bosnian-Qatari players are natural born Bosnians of no Qatari descent. What made them eligible to play for the Qatar national team as local players is their "conversation" from being natural born Bosnians to Qatari citizens prior to their 16th birthday.

So if we analyzed it thoroughly, FIBA's rule on player eligibility is mainly technical & doesn't really put much weight on descent. I've heard Ethan Alvano of the KBL was born to both Filipino parents who migrated to the US. But Ethan failed to secure Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday therefore he can't play for the Philippine team as a local player.

The thing is, if a player is born in a certain country, he can actually play for that country as a local player. Such provision was used by SBP to make Matthew Ganuaelas-Rosser eligible to play for Gilas as a local player. This despite he failed to obtain Phi passport prior to his 16th birthday. Matthew was born in the Philippnes. On the other hand, Matthew's younger brother Brandon Ganuelas-Rosser was not born here in Phi & hasn't obtained Phi passport before his 16th birthday. Therefore Brandon he is not FIBA eligible.

This makes me think that in the eyes of FIBA, jus soli weighs more than jus sanguinis.

 

[lem0nadi2]

Oh really? What about those Qatari players of Bosnian descent who obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday? Did jus sanguinis applied to them? Obviously not! Obviously the parents of these Bosnian-Qatari players are natural born Bosnians of no Qatari descent. What made them eligible to play for the Qatar national team as local players is their "conversation" from being natural born Bosnians to Qatari citizens prior to their 16th birthday.

So if we analyzed it thoroughly, FIBA's rule on player eligibility is mainly technical & doesn't really put much weight on descent. I've heard Ethan Alvano of the KBL was born to both Filipino parents who migrated to the US. But Ethan failed to secure Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday therefore he can't play for the Philippine team as a local player.

The thing is, if a player is born in a certain country, he can actually play for that country as a local player. Such provision was used by SBP to make Matthew Ganuaelas-Rosser eligible to play for Gilas as a local player. This despite he failed to obtain Phi passport prior to his 16th birthday. Matthew was born in the Philippnes. On the other hand, Matthew's younger brother Brandon Ganuelas-Rosser was not born here in Phi & hasn't obtained Phi passport before his 16th birthday. Therefore Brandon he is not FIBA eligible.

This makes me think that in the eyes of FIBA, jus soli weighs more than jus sanguinis.

I am really not familiar with how immig works but technically a person won't be able to leave the country if they does not have a passport right? Meaning MGR should have his PH Passport for him to be able to leave PH, which he did at a young age. So technically, he did get his passport at young age, way before he is 16. I might be wrong though.
​​​

 

[sroth38392]

Oh really? What about those Qatari players of Bosnian descent who obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday? Did jus sanguinis applied to them? Obviously not! Obviously the parents of these Bosnian-Qatari players are natural born Bosnians of no Qatari descent. What made them eligible to play for the Qatar national team as local players is their "conversation" from being natural born Bosnians to Qatari citizens prior to their 16th birthday.

So if we analyzed it thoroughly, FIBA's rule on player eligibility is mainly technical & doesn't really put much weight on descent. I've heard Ethan Alvano of the KBL was born to both Filipino parents who migrated to the US. But Ethan failed to secure Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday therefore he can't play for the Philippine team as a local player.

The thing is, if a player is born in a certain country, he can actually play for that country as a local player. Such provision was used by SBP to make Matthew Ganuaelas-Rosser eligible to play for Gilas as a local player. This despite he failed to obtain Phi passport prior to his 16th birthday. Matthew was born in the Philippnes. On the other hand, Matthew's younger brother Brandon Ganuelas-Rosser was not born here in Phi & hasn't obtained Phi passport before his 16th birthday. Therefore Brandon he is not FIBA eligible.

This makes me think that in the eyes of FIBA, jus soli weighs more than jus sanguinis.

In the eyes of FIBA, "how much they bribe me" weighs more than jus soli.

Don't be surprised if the 2029 FIBA Asia Cup will stay in the West Region and be hosted by either the UAE or Qatar.

 

[lem0nadi2]

Qatar always gets their way with that oil money anyway, I remember that is also an issue before with their FIFA hosting.

 

[sroth38392]

Qatar always gets their way with that oil money anyway, I remember that is also an issue before with their FIFA hosting.

Natural Gas actually but point still stands. The Gulf countries are trying to stay relevant by using their oil and gas wealth to do sports washing.

Just look at who's hosting the 2034 World Cup and the process that led to it.

I won't be surprised if the WCQ groupings will be manipulated to favor Qatar or another gulf team.

 

[FilWelsh2]

Aside from Gadiaga-Abassi another player from East Asia region who was re-classified from naturalised to local is Thailand’s Moses Morgan. I believed Tyler Lamb started as NP as well but FIBA changed his status to local Thai later in his career. Both Morgan and Lamb has some heritage links with Thailand though.

Among Filipino locals who has good chance on getting an exemption is Munzon. Residency wise I believe he meet the criteria…

 

[DAdmiral2]

Oh really? What about those Qatari players of Bosnian descent who obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday? Did jus sanguinis applied to them? Obviously not! Obviously the parents of these Bosnian-Qatari players are natural born Bosnians of no Qatari descent. What made them eligible to play for the Qatar national team as local players is their "conversation" from being natural born Bosnians to Qatari citizens prior to their 16th birthday.

So if we analyzed it thoroughly, FIBA's rule on player eligibility is mainly technical & doesn't really put much weight on descent. I've heard Ethan Alvano of the KBL was born to both Filipino parents who migrated to the US. But Ethan failed to secure Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday therefore he can't play for the Philippine team as a local player.

The thing is, if a player is born in a certain country, he can actually play for that country as a local player. Such provision was used by SBP to make Matthew Ganuaelas-Rosser eligible to play for Gilas as a local player. This despite he failed to obtain Phi passport prior to his 16th birthday. Matthew was born in the Philippnes. On the other hand, Matthew's younger brother Brandon Ganuelas-Rosser was not born here in Phi & hasn't obtained Phi passport before his 16th birthday. Therefore Brandon he is not FIBA eligible.

This makes me think that in the eyes of FIBA, jus soli weighs more than jus sanguinis.

You're missing the point , the point is how is lineage verified by an organization (including FIBA) , it's none other than documentation. (Nothing else), regardless if one is verifying connection to a parent, grand parent or great great ancestors. It's still documents . Not DNA or matching similar common enthicity of the country (never).
Other connections is explicitly mentioned in FIBA guildlines for exception (point 3)
NOW connections lineage to an ancestor in many instances cannot be verified by an ancestor having a registered citizenship, why? Cause citizenship in many countries was only established last 50 yrs. , many of the people who lived in a land ( like Philippines) before 1950 only had registered births or residency (not citizenship). So you can see in AGASSI he absolutely has lineage to permanent resident of Taiwan ( his parents) , do you now get the point ? Same way a Maker of Australia has lineage to his parents who are permanently residing in Australia even IF they are of African enthicity (see the difference).
This verification process is not only applied by FIBA, but any organization or country, yes even the KBL etc , it's verification of lineage to a person from that country ( whether resident or citizen). In KBL case they verify that both parents have documented lineage to the Philippines ( Not necessarily citizenship and Not enthicity)

The provision on eligibility by place of birth is for outright eligibility for citizens of a country.
We're talking about factors for exceptions here . And lineage by verified documents is absolutely part of the consideration for exception cases , was a point for Abassi

 

[JAMSKIE2]

You're missing the point , the point is how is lineage verified by an organization (including FIBA) , it's none other than documentation. (Nothing else), regardless if one is verifying connection to a parent, grand parent or great great ancestors. It's still documents . Not DNA or matching similar common enthicity of the country (never).
Other connections is explicitly mentioned in FIBA guildlines for exception (point 3)
NOW connections lineage to an ancestor in many instances cannot be verified by an ancestor having a registered citizenship, why? Cause citizenship in many countries was only established last 50 yrs. , many of the people who lived in a land ( like Philippines) before 1950 only had registered births or residency (not citizenship). So you can see in AGASSI he absolutely has lineage to permanent resident of Taiwan ( his parents) , do you now get the point ? Same way a Maker of Australia has lineage to his parents who are permanently residing in Australia even IF they are of African enthicity (see the difference).
This verification process is not only applied by FIBA, but any organization or country, yes even the KBL etc , it's verification of lineage to a person from that country ( whether resident or citizen). In KBL case they verify that both parents have documented lineage to the Philippines ( Not necessarily citizenship and Not enthicity)

What I'm implying is that FIBA doesn't put much weight on jus sanguinis or descent as much as it does on technicality or documentation. The best proof of that is those Qatari players of Bosnian descent whose parents are obviously Bosnian with no Qatari bloodline or descent whatsoever. But these players are treated by FIBA as Qatari local players becoz they obtained Qatari citizenship prior to their 16th birthday. It didn't matter to FIBA that the parents of these players are not of Qatari descent.

On the other hand, to those half-breed or even full-blooded Filipino players who were born abroad, it doesn't matter to FIBA that these players are born of Filipino parents (jus sanguinis), what will matter to FIBA is whether these players laid claim of their Filipino citizenship (most common evidence is Philippine passport) before they reach 16 yrs of age or not.

Hope you get my point.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I am really not familiar with how immig works but technically a person won't be able to leave the country if they does not have a passport right? Meaning MGR should have his PH Passport for him to be able to leave PH, which he did at a young age. So technically, he did get his passport at young age, way before he is 16. I might be wrong though.
​​​

I get your point bro.
But from what I remember, what made Matt Ganuelas-Rosser FIBA eligible is the fact that he was born here in the Philippines. MGR is in the same case as former San Mig Coffee player Justin Melton who was also born here in our country.

I even remember many years ago when some posters here at IBN were duscussing about the possibility that Alex Compton may be considered by FIBA as a Pinoy local player becoz he was born here in the Philippines. Compton however is not a Filipino citizen since jos soli doesn't not apply to Philippiine citizenship law.