Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[DAdmiral2]

Lots of misconceptions here .
1.its not mere tenure of residency or mere studying in the country. Aside from extended period ( 5 years as a student resident) very important is if education is in formative years ( grade school or High school) , taking a masters degree for 1 or 2 years in mid 20s counts for nothing
This principle is implied in the exception is for an age cuttoff rule (U16), FIBA encourages and rewards players who are raised in their youth in the country ( its not adults having residency as a professional that matters)


2 Blood connection is not having similar common enthicity ( like Asian Taiwanese enthicity), but is in reference to a parental connection to either a citizen or a permanent resident. This is where Abasi is different from Kouame, as Kouame has no parental or family relationship to a Philippine citizen or resident Abasi does, his family are essentially permanent Taiwanese residents

Doiulthit son has a blood connection to a Philippine citizen. See the difference? It's not similar common enthicity
Abasi parents may be already Taiwanese citizens as well.

 

[Metta2]

If we’re honest about it the good young bigs inow are mostly Filfors. However it forces our homegrowns to develop their games more. KQ was a 6’4 center in HS. But he had to develop into a PF with some perimeter skills in college because of the bigger Filfors and FSAs. Now he is performing well as an Asian import. If he didnt develop he would be a role player in the PBA.

In the same vein, if there were already FSAs in high school then, KQ might have transitioned sooner. Which is the case with Filfors coz their comp growing up has size.

 

[Rds2]

Sorry I meant to say they had same situation in a way that education is the reason they become local. It's basically studying in their respective country would be a factor for their localization. It is been hardly emphasize that Gadiaga finished his studies in Taiwan enroute to his localization. Which is why I said that would be likely Mike's case. Finishing studies in PH then SBP trying to make him local. I could say that alone is more than enough for him to be local given that he already has filipino blood, which is his upperhand over Gadiaga.

Sure, we can say Gadiaga needed that Taiwan pro stint, because at the end of the day, he has no taiwanese blood, thus can't be considered as local by default at all, citizenship wise.

On the other hand, Mike has filipino blood, which means that even though the FIBA does not consider him a local, he is local in our country by the virtue of his Philippine Passport.


I am not saying that have the same path as in, but I am implying that their education is a big factor for their Localization.

Also, i also meant to say na mas lamang pa din si Mike over Gadiaga because meron syang filo blood. Meaning, he does not need to do all of what Gadiaga did (Living for how many years it is, being pro on their league). I think his filipino blood makes a case for that. Hence, a finished education would be more than enough for him to be recogize as local.

This is what’s regressive about our citizenship laws. We don’t even know if Mike’s parents are Filipino or the many case of grandparents or great grandparents being the ones who really got hold of their passport. The way it goes now you don’t even have to be born here or to be born to a citizen to be Filipino. If you have a living ancestor who held a passport sometime in his/her life they could reclaim their citizenship and pass it on to their offspring and so on and so forth. I don’t know any country with so lenient a citizenship law. If I have an ancestor who migrated to the US before WW2 and for some reason he is still alive today and as long as descendants linking to me are alive. I can be declared a Filipino. Even if none of my ancestors ever held a Filipino passport except that living WW2 era great great something parent.

Don’t you find that illogical? I dont have a link to the Philippines except for that WW2 era ancestor.

What if I dont have a Filipino parent but I was born and raised here? I am not a Filipino. I can only be a Filipino if the country’s lawmakers passes a law or some other convolutrd means.

Many countries have gone beyond so called blood to determine citizenship. If we follow that maybe we can claim Chinese, Malay, Indonesia or Bruneian citizenship. Blood connection doesnt really make sense. Culture and other ties to the country should be more important.

 

[lem0nadi2]

Lots of misconceptions here .
1.its not mere tenure of residency or mere studying in the country. Aside from extended period ( 5 years as a student resident) very important is if education is in formative years ( grade school or High school) , taking a masters degree for 1 or 2 years in mid 20s counts for nothing
This principle is implied in the exception is for an age cuttoff rule (U16), FIBA encourages and rewards players who are raised in their youth in the country ( its not adults having residency as a professional that matters)


2 Blood connection is not having similar common enthicity ( like Asian Taiwanese enthicity), but is in reference to a parental connection to either a citizen or a permanent resident. This is where Abasi is different from Kouame, as Kouame has no parental or family relationship to a Philippine citizen or resident Abasi does, his family are essentially permanent Taiwanese residents

Mike might not satisfied that grade school or high school, but he finished his whole college years from 1st year until his Masteral/Doctorate year. And while finishing those degrees, he already satisfied that 5 years residency on that span, even spent 6.

I might say those are big factor for his localization, he just did not go here in the Philippines just to play basketball (where taking a masters degree is the usual way). He actually fully studied.

He just barely missed that before 16 passport rule by 1 year. Assuming he already got his passport at late 17 to early 18. FIBA can do consideration for that I hope.

 

[lem0nadi2]

also for fuck's sake, the guy is already speaking using fucking fluent tagalog man. If that is not another factor to consider him a local, i dont know anymore. Hahahahaha. ​​​

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Sorry I meant to say they had same situation in a way that education is the reason they become local. It's basically studying in their respective country would be a factor for their localization. It is been hardly emphasize that Gadiaga finished his studies in Taiwan enroute to his localization. Which is why I said that would be likely Mike's case. Finishing studies in PH then SBP trying to make him local. I could say that alone is more than enough for him to be local given that he already has filipino blood, which is his upperhand over Gadiaga.

Sure, we can say Gadiaga needed that Taiwan pro stint, because at the end of the day, he has no taiwanese blood, thus can't be considered as local by default at all, citizenship wise.

On the other hand, Mike has filipino blood, which means that even though the FIBA does not consider him a local, he is local in our country by the virtue of his Philippine Passport (which is unlikely for a foreign like Gadiaga to get if not for a naturalization btw)

I am not saying that they have the same path as in, but I am implying that their education is a big factor for their Localization.

Also, i also meant to say na mas lamang pa din si Mike over Gadiaga because meron syang filo blood. Meaning, he does not need to do all of what Gadiaga did (Living for how many years it is, being pro on their league). I think his filipino blood makes a case for that. Hence, a finished education and his 6 years residency here would be more than enough for him to be recogize as local.

This is also his upperhand over Lucero, Balunggay because those guys spent like 2-3 years on their respective schools. They did not attend those schools from the start, 1st year to last year. Which Mike has, hell he may even have that Masteral degree in DLSU.

But as some posters here point out, FIBA doesn't put much weight on Jus sanguinis or descent. For FIBA, it doesn't make that much sense that Mike Philipps has Filipino blood while Gadiaga a. k.a. "Abassi" has no Chinese or Taiwanese blood.

 

[lem0nadi2]

But as some posters here point out, FIBA doesn't put much weight on Jus sanguinis or descent. For FIBA, it doesn't make that much sense that Mike Philipps has Filipino blood while Gadiaga a. k.a. "Abassi" has no Chinese or Taiwanese blood.

I will always believe having a descent will be a big factor, because that is where the nationality starts.

Though I just see it as a supporting factor. How Mike finished his whole undergrad/grad degrees here in PH, together with his 6 years residency is what I am holding on for his localization.​

 

[Metta2]

This is what’s regressive about our citizenship laws. We don’t even know if Mike’s parents are Filipino or the many case of grandparents or great grandparents being the ones who really got hold of their passport. The way it goes now you don’t even have to be born here or to be born to a citizen to be Filipino. If you have a living ancestor who held a passport sometime in his/her life they could reclaim their citizenship and pass it on to their offspring and so on and so forth. I don’t know any country with so lenient a citizenship law. If I have an ancestor who migrated to the US before WW2 and for some reason he is still alive today and as long as descendants linking to me are alive. I can be declared a Filipino. Even if none of my ancestors ever held a Filipino passport except that living WW2 era great great something parent.

Don’t you find that illogical? I dont have a link to the Philippines except for that WW2 era ancestor.

What if I dont have a Filipino parent but I was born and raised here? I am not a Filipino. I can only be a Filipino if the country’s lawmakers passes a law or some other convolutrd means.

Many countries have gone beyond so called blood to determine citizenship. If we follow that maybe we can claim Chinese, Malay, Indonesia or Bruneian citizenship. Blood connection doesnt really make sense. Culture and other ties to the country should be more important.

These are purely my personal thoughts. We're one of the countries with the biggest migrant populations. Aside from our many OFWs, we also have many who permanently migrate somewhere else. Majority of the time, those migrants and their descendants become better-off/wealthier. There's not a lot of downside making it easier for them (or their descendants) to reclaim citizenship. Especially since owning property/businesses in the country is strict, it makes sense economically.

 

[lem0nadi2]

This is what’s regressive about our citizenship laws. We don’t even know if Mike’s parents are Filipino or the many case of grandparents or great grandparents being the ones who really got hold of their passport. The way it goes now you don’t even have to be born here or to be born to a citizen to be Filipino. If you have a living ancestor who held a passport sometime in his/her life they could reclaim their citizenship and pass it on to their offspring and so on and so forth. I don’t know any country with so lenient a citizenship law. If I have an ancestor who migrated to the US before WW2 and for some reason he is still alive today and as long as descendants linking to me are alive. I can be declared a Filipino. Even if none of my ancestors ever held a Filipino passport except that living WW2 era great great something parent.

Don’t you find that illogical? I dont have a link to the Philippines except for that WW2 era ancestor.

What if I dont have a Filipino parent but I was born and raised here? I am not a Filipino. I can only be a Filipino if the country’s lawmakers passes a law or some other convolutrd means.

Many countries have gone beyond so called blood to determine citizenship. If we follow that maybe we can claim Chinese, Malay, Indonesia or Bruneian citizenship. Blood connection doesnt really make sense. Culture and other ties to the country should be more important.

And which is why I am emphasizing Mike's education for his case.

Him completing his whole undergrad/grad pretty sums up his connection and ties to our country.

He is not just the usual fil-am who went to Philippines to play ball.

Like yes, we could assume that he only has a filipino blood from his great grandparents, but he actually embrace it. And did not use it as advantage to only play ball here.

Because if that is the case, he could have started his college career in the US, and just go here when that US career flop. But no, he did not do it.
​​
He actually went here to study and love our culture.

Hell, as I say above, he even learned to speak fluent tagalog. He did not just practice to say "salamat po" "mahal ko kayo" shits. He actually love the culture.

Which is why I don't understand how the SBP is not making a case for his localization already.

 

[Rds2]

These are purely my personal thoughts. We're one of the countries with the biggest migrant populations. Aside from our many OFWs, we also have many who permanently migrate somewhere else. Majority of the time, those migrants and their descendants become better-off/wealthier. There's not a lot of downside making it easier for them (or their descendants) to reclaim citizenship. Especially since owning property/businesses in the country is strict, it makes sense economically.

Isnt opening up a real naturalization process, like other countries, the way? I understand if you were a passport holder reclaiming your citizenship so you your child can get one. But a grandparent or a great grandparent reclaiming their citizenship so their grand child or great grand child can reclaim theirs? This seems to be too much for me. We should first give a naturalization process to those who have been living in the country for many generations and are Filipinos in all ways but the papers.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Mike might not satisfied that grade school or high school, but he finished his whole college years from 1st year until his Masteral/Doctorate year. And while finishing those degrees, he already satisfied that 5 years residency on that span, even spent 6.

I might say those are big factor for his localization, he just did not go here in the Philippines just to play basketball (where taking a masters degree is the usual way). He actually fully studied.

He just barely missed that before 16 passport rule by 1 year. Assuming he already got his passport at late 17 to early 18. FIBA can do consideration for that I hope.

Among are good prospects, yes I agree Mike has the best case , but of course the SBP has to file for his exception

 

[DAdmiral2]

But as some posters here point out, FIBA doesn't put much weight on Jus sanguinis or descent. For FIBA, it doesn't make that much sense that Mike Philipps has Filipino blood while Gadiaga a. k.a. "Abassi" has no Chinese or Taiwanese blood.

That actually is an inaccurate assessment, FIBA just uses the legal basis of what Jus sangunis ( blood relationship ) really means , legally it means relationship to a Citizen or a person from that country ( like a permanent resident). The child of Blatche from an American mother is a blood relationship to a Philippine citizen ( Blatche) regardless if he has zero Filipino entnicity (see the difference). Abassi has a blood relationship to a Taiwanese resident or citizen ( his parents ) despite being fully non Asian , do you get it?

 

[Silent Killer2]

It's the typical go-to argument to stoke xenophobia...the foreigners will take away the jobs of locals.

Here's a thought experiment though...

Lately, we've been having young FSAs in high school. What if somehow they get passports in time and become eligible, then several of them grow up to be at the level of Ange, Malik or even Momowei. And the more successful it is, the more there will be. It may completely change our basketball landscape the way Filams changed it.

Filams didn't take away all the jobs of homegrowns, but it forced everyone to step up their game and those who can't are in leagues like MPBL.

The likes of akowe, rancine kane, that 6'6-6'7 fsa of 16 feu..

It's good for our kids to face the likes of akowe all across the leagues from uaap, pinoy liga etc.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I will always believe having a descent will be a big factor, because that is where the nationality starts.

Though I just see it as a supporting factor. How Mike finished his whole undergrad/grad degrees here in PH, together with his 6 years residency is what I am holding on for his localization.​

I'm with you on this bro. I say, FIBA's eligibility rule is mostly technical.

 

[Metta2]

Isnt opening up a real naturalization process, like other countries, the way? I understand if you were a passport holder reclaiming your citizenship so you your child can get one. But a grandparent or a great grandparent reclaiming their citizenship so their grand child or great grand child can reclaim theirs? This seems to be too much for me. We should first give a naturalization process to those who have been living in the country for many generations and are Filipinos in all ways but the papers.

I agree with improving the naturalization process for legitimate applicants. But separate from that, I don't see a net downside in making it easy for migrants and their descendants to reclaim citizenship. Like I said, overwhelming majority of them are positive in terms of economy, education/knowhow, etc. We actually need them (not just for basketball).

Most of the time, a Filfor will reclaim that Ph passport in order to invest/work and live in the country. We want those types of citizens.

 

[live_evil2]

The SBP's localization application delay for a lot of our exemption eligibles can easily explained by A-DRAFT KA MUNA SA PBA."

 

[DAdmiral2]

Contrary to thought, verification of blood relationship is actually only verifiable by document connection to someone who has a legal connection to the country.

Even Korea Asain import policy applies this rule. How ? Both parents are required to show documented proof of a legal connection to a country ( Philippines), note it is NOT both parents are of Filipino entnicity. But both have document connections.

 

[DAdmiral2]

I will always believe having a descent will be a big factor, because that is where the nationality starts.

Though I just see it as a supporting factor. How Mike finished his whole undergrad/grad degrees here in PH, together with his 6 years residency is what I am holding on for his localization.​

It actually is , but lineage decent is still proven by documents alone , not skin color or DNA etc .
the NBTC actually applies this rule, you have to show documented proof that you are related to someone who lived in the Philippines, note it can't be citizen, cause it's possible before there was no paper documents for who is a citizen of the population in the Philippines

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

So whose specific development will be affected? Give me specific examples or types of players. Will the players whose development will be affected be useful in FIBA? Do we have a surplus of those types of players?

Imagine Brownlee playing as local here in the PBA, it will be a huge disadvantage for other teams, especially those who are low budget teams that can't afford to naturalized those kind of players.. and what will happen to our local development if we allow them to play as locals here? Playing here as an FSA or import is ok, but become as locals? So what is the essence to be a basketball nation of we can't develop local players?

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

It's the typical go-to argument to stoke xenophobia...the foreigners will take away the jobs of locals.

Here's a thought experiment though...

Lately, we've been having young FSAs in high school. What if somehow they get passports in time and become eligible, then several of them grow up to be at the level of Ange, Malik or even Momowei. And the more successful it is, the more there will be. It may completely change our basketball landscape the way Filams changed it.

Filams didn't take away all the jobs of homegrowns, but it forced everyone to step up their game and those who can't are in leagues like MPBL.

Fil-ams are ok, because they still have Pinoy blood in it.. but for foreign players who have no Pinoy blood? They can play here as imports or FSA but to be a local? What's the essence to be a "basketball country" if our players are full of foreign players? We are not Thailand or Qatar that has little to none basketball culture.. this is Philippines that from age of 5 starting already to hook playing basketball.. this is our blood...