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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

  • Thread starter Thread starter IPC2
  • Start date Start date
On "eye test" these are some of Pinoy players who I see as having impressive wingspan:

Japeth, QMB, Arwind Santos, Mike Philipps, Will Navarro, Mark Belmonte, KQ, Ange Kouame.
 
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

I'm curious about the respective wingspans of Junmar, Dwight Ramos & AJ Edu.
Junmar & Dwight don't seem to have that impressive wingspan

June Mar actually has a good wingspan at 7'1. For some reason it doesnt translate on the court. I haven't seen an official measurement from Edu but it's around 7 to 7'1. Goes to show that lateral speed can negate wingspan. Also, I think June Mar's standing reach is not impressive for his 6'10 height. I think somebody here posted that Greg Slaughter's jumping standing reach is 6 inches higher at 11'6 than June Mar's which is just 11. He and June Mar have the same wingspan. Greg's official height is 6 '11 5/8 to JMF's 6'10. Caveat that the PBA's height measurement may be slightly inflated as some cursory checking of mine before with imports is they got around 0.25-0.5 increase when measured lying down in the PBA compared to their last official measurement.
 
I don't think anyone sane here is expecting us to win the Olympic or World Cup gold.

Chot's Puso version of Gilas who won silver is still remembered fondly.

Our realistic goal is to level up in terms of world-tier levels. Be consistently at the top 3 of Asia and be competitive against Euro and Americas teams.


This for me is the most realistic goal. Talking about leveling up with world-tier teams, that is why I made it a big deal those "moral victories" we had in the 2014 FIBA World Cup in our loses to Croatia, Argentina & Puerto Rico. Some Pinoy basketball fans are downplaying those "moral victories" saying like, "A loss is still a loss regardless of how close the game was & regardless of the quality of the opposition".

That's oversimplifying things while ignoring the merits of the fact that Gilas was able to put some scare against world-tier teams which are supposedly significantly stronger than us. I have to commend coach Chot Reyes & our Gilas players for that. For me "moral victories" are confidence booster. It make us believe that we can really upset/beat world class teams if we do things right with our national team & of course, we get some luck.

Among our moral victories aside from those we had in the 2014 World Cup, are the close loss to Serbia in the 2021 Olympic Qualifying Tournament with an all-amateur Gilas team handled by coach Tab Baldwin & those close loses we had against Georgia & Brazil in last year's Olympic Qualifying Tournament.

A lot of people here would disagree with me but I still see our close loses to the Dominican Republic & Italy in the 2023 World Cup as not bad loses. But our loss to Angola was the one that's really frustrating.
 
June Mar actually has a good wingspan at 7'1. For some reason it doesnt translate on the court. I haven't seen an official measurement from Edu but it's around 7 to 7'1. Goes to show that lateral speed can negate wingspan. Also, I think June Mar's standing reach is not impressive for his 6'10 height. I think somebody here posted that Greg Slaughter's jumping standing reach is 6 inches higher at 11'6 than June Mar's which is just 11. He and June Mar have the same wingspan. Greg's official height is 6 '11 5/8 to JMF's 6'10. Caveat that the PBA's height measurement may be slightly inflated as some cursory checking of mine before with imports is they got around 0.25-0.5 increase when measured lying down in the PBA compared to their last official measurement.

Junmar isn't known as a good shot blocker, right? Could it be becoz his hop isn't that impressive & his reflexes is slow. I think shot blocking isn't just about hop, timing & having an impressive wingspan. It is also about having quick reflexes. I think AJ Edu & QMB are good shot blockers not just becoz they are high leapers, have good timing & good wingspan, I think both Edu & QMB have quick reflexes.
 
June Mar actually has a good wingspan at 7'1. For some reason it doesnt translate on the court. I haven't seen an official measurement from Edu but it's around 7 to 7'1. Goes to show that lateral speed can negate wingspan. Also, I think June Mar's standing reach is not impressive for his 6'10 height. I think somebody here posted that Greg Slaughter's jumping standing reach is 6 inches higher at 11'6 than June Mar's which is just 11. He and June Mar have the same wingspan. Greg's official height is 6 '11 5/8 to JMF's 6'10. Caveat that the PBA's height measurement may be slightly inflated as some cursory checking of mine before with imports is they got around 0.25-0.5 increase when measured lying down in the PBA compared to their last official measurement.

The video says "Speed Over Size."

Speed is the primary ingredient. From there...Short is usually speedier than Tall. So OKC found "shorter" guys with insane wingspans. So it was a bunch of speedy guys not necessarily tall but long. Now if there's a tall guy with speed and length, then by all means that's the best alternative (Wemby, Chet).

It's basically Small Ball Warriors 2.0 where Draymond (another wingspan over height guy) was the defensive anchor. OKC's Microball just takes it to another level.

Guys should not now go overboard on just pure wingspan like how it is when guys go anal about pure height. Wingspan is maximized in horizontal ground coverage, and for that, foot speed is needed.
 
Get a PG already. These bunch of guards won’t cut it. The opponent presses the lanes and it’s an automatic turnover. Bolick’s strength (creating for himself and breaking the pressure) would’ve had come in handy. Heading is also one guy that could playmake, far better than what Perez and Oftana combined.

I say retain Scottie and ride Newsome till the wheels fall off, but SBP should reconsider giving Bolick and Heading a chance in lieu of Perez and Oftana.

Oftana's a wing. We drop him, that kinda lessens our FIBA-eligible options at 3, which are already him, Dwight, Malonzo, and maybe Quiambao. At least with CJ, you replace a guard with a guard.
 
Oftana's a wing. We drop him, that kinda lessens our FIBA-eligible options at 3, which are already him, Dwight, Malonzo, and maybe Quiambao. At least with CJ, you replace a guard with a guard.

Why is Malonzo there? Shouldnt he just be rehabbing amd preparing for the next Gins game?
 
Oftana's a wing. We drop him, that kinda lessens our FIBA-eligible options at 3, which are already him, Dwight, Malonzo, and maybe Quiambao. At least with CJ, you replace a guard with a guard.

I used to like Oftana for Gilas. But now I’d rather try KQ and to some extent, Tamayo, at the 3. Ramos remains our steadiest option at the position and should command the bulk of the 3 minutes anyway. Idk, but with Heading you add a steadier playmaker and shooter, things we evidently miss. It doesn’t matter if they’re not playing the same position, if it were me calling the shots, I’d make that switch asap.
 
Why is Malonzo there? Shouldnt he just be rehabbing amd preparing for the next Gins game?

Because he's a Gin and we all know this new program has a bias towards SMC players.

I used to like Oftana for Gilas. But now I’d rather try KQ and to some extent, Tamayo, at the 3. Ramos remains our steadiest option at the position and should command the bulk of the 3 minutes anyway. Idk, but with Heading you add a steadier playmaker and shooter, things we evidently miss. It doesn’t matter if they’re not playing the same position, if it were me calling the shots, I’d make that switch asap.

Navarro is the obvious next choice for the 3. We already know what he can provide.

SJ, RJ, JD, and even Kiefer can do a better job at the PG position than Perez. Any one of those guys can work.

​Heading should be our primary shooter. This is a given. We don't have any other shooters besides Ramos and Brownlee in the current lineup.
 
Because he's a Gin and we all know this new program has a bias towards SMC players.



Navarro is the obvious next choice for the 3. We already know what he can provide.

SJ, RJ, JD, and even Kiefer can do a better job at the PG position than Perez. Any one of those guys can work.

​Heading should be our primary shooter. This is a given. We don't have any other shooters besides Ramos and Brownlee in the current lineup.

This team would be much steadier if Bolick instead of Perez and addons like Heading and Balti,will be more competitive if AK34 and QMB are locals.
 
Maybe we're being over reliant on JB now? Is he becoming TC's crutch like Castro/Blatche was for Chot.
Yeah he solves a lot of our problems but a supposedly non bearing game again is the perfect place to get some reps in for the younger guys.
 
Maybe we're being over reliant on JB now? Is he becoming TC's crutch like Castro/Blatche was for Chot.
Yeah he solves a lot of our problems but a supposedly non bearing game again is the perfect place to get some reps in for the younger guys.

Yeah, we overrelied on Brownlee in this game. 39 out of 84 points of Gilas speaks volumes on two things - (1) overreliance on one player and (2) the quality of locals that we have.

​​​​Anyway, all is not lost for Tim Cone just yet. He just needs to tweak his system as well as his personnel since, obviously, there are players that should not be in the line-up in the first place.
 
Yeah, we overrelied on Brownlee in this game. 39 out of 84 points of Gilas speaks volumes on two things - (1) overreliance on one player and (2) the quality of locals that we have.

​​​​Anyway, all is not lost for Tim Cone just yet. He just needs to tweak his system as well as his personnel since, obviously, there are players that should not be in the line-up in the first place.

I have posted before, when the NT coach comes from PBA, in times of need they will rely on their import. NP in this case. Blatche, Clarkson, Brownlee, and eventually Boatwright or whoever they get. that is ok in the PBA, since opposing teams would have only 1 import as well and you know how strong each team is. but that will not always work in the international scene.

I actually think we are seeing a good step up with local talent. but then other countries are also improving. that CT team didnt have the HInton Bros. the younger Hinton looks like he would be JB like given enough experience. eventually, CT will parade 1 real NP, 2 PBA import level player (HInton and Al Bachir) and the Hinton bro who looks just 1 step behind his younger bro. so we really need to accelerate our locals even more.

I believe in CTC as a coach. he needs more reps and really need to try other players just to see who fits his system better and if he can use same players to expand his system. but whatever political obstacle GIlas is facing as a team within the Philippine environment is really frustrating as a fan.
 
This game looked ugly to me because we were depending on one guy. I thought one advantage of JB over JC was he would make the team look better and not take all the shots. Guess what JB took most of the shots and scored almost half of the points. Is this really a system or TC is using JB as a crutch?

Many like Scottie but it’s obvious that he is not a playmaker or a scorer. I would like some guards who actually can break down defense and can actually shoot without hesitation. Bollick comes to mind as playmaker and Heading as shooter.

Second, it seems we’ve got a mismatch in talent and triangle. As I watched some shows and from what I saw before, the triangle is a big man’s system. That is why we’re so dependent on JF even when he probably is the reason for a lot defensive lapses. Also, it looks like Edu is not a post guy. Given his injury history it is not surprising. He is more of a PNR kind of guy.

Without Kai, do we still stick with the triangle? Can it even work wiht just Edu? The early returns seems no.

Third, other guard scoring. Newsome is a good defender but has an awkward release. This makes him a reluctant shooter. CJ is a reluctant shooter without proper screens. His favorite layups dont go in at this level. He has no mid-range. And his defense disappears at times. Why not try Winston? Has a mid range. Plays better defense than CJ.

4th, over all defense. Our guards Scottie and Newsome are more defenders than scorers. But our forwards are more scorers than defenders. Let’s not talk about Malonzo because he shouldnt be playing for the national when he is still not 100%. KQ is not the smoothest of perimeter defenders even with his length. Oftana, some say is decent but I would argue Navarro is still the better defender. Taller and smoother laterals. Same goes for Carl. In fairness, in the plays that I saw he did not look bad. But would it really hurt to see better rim protection at the 4 position with Baltazar, particularly when Edu is our only reliable rim protector?
 
We need someone who can bring the ball up under pressure. That doesn't necessarily have to come from the point guard spot.

I am also curious to this. It seems to me this is a weakness of the triangle. Your bigs cant help screen in the back court because they are in post position on the other side. Your 3 can help but we dont want JB to do that. Which potential SF can help up us bring the ball?

Do we have such player right now?

We all know how susceptible CJ Perez & at times Iskati Thompson bringing the ball under pressure. We've seen that during the Gilas-Angola game in the 2023 FIBA World Cup. Guess who did better bringing the ball up under pressure in that game? It was among the most hated Gilas player in recent years - Kiefer Ravena.

Right now, Carl, Arvin, Gabe, and Navarro are the notable forwards I saw that had the occasional duty of bringing up the ball. In the past, JDV also brought up the ball.
 
Right now, Carl, Arvin, Gabe, and Navarro are the notable forwards I saw that had the occasional duty of bringing up the ball. In the past, JDV also brought up the ball.

This is when we really missed players like Gabe Norwood & Rayray Parks. These players can really help our point guards bring the ball even under backcourt pressure. Park & Norwood are among the most versatile players to have ever played for our national team. Parks problem is his inconsistent willingness to play for the national team.
 
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