Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Metta2]

Thank U for the sarcasm bro.
We all know that politics is everywhere in the Philippines & that there are only few aspects in our everyday lives where politics isn't present. But I think there are few times naman in which politics wasn't present or a factor in the selection of our national team players. I think there wasn't any politics in the selection of players in our Centennial team in 1998 which was coached by no less than Tim Cone himself. Yung mejo controversial lang doon was the non-inclussion of Nelson Asaytono who at that time was easily among the top 5 best players in the PBA. But as coach Tim Cone reasoned out, as great & highly skilled a player Asaytono was, he wasn't a team player. He was just too individualistic a player which won't cut it making it to a team that puts emphasis on teamwork & team play.

You just reinforced the point. You have to go back more than a quarter of a century ago. A bygone era without the 2 PBA empires, not a lot of Filfors, no overseas league renegades, etc. And even if you take away all the brouhaha, that era just had a few players in serious contention for international play so not a lot of deserving guys left out. And still there was an Asaytono issue.

And bingo...CTC was already an NT coach then. And guys still think they know more than him.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

You just reinforced the point. You have to go back more than a quarter of a century ago. A bygone era without the 2 PBA empires, not a lot of Filfors, no overseas league renegades, etc. And even if you take away all the brouhaha, that era just had a few players in serious contention for international play so not a lot of deserving guys left out. And still there was an Asaytono issue.

And bingo...CTC was already an NT coach then. And guys still think they know more than him.

Nobody here have illusions of knowing better than coach Tim. Criticising a coach, especially in coach Tim's stature, doesn't translate to illusioning to be knowing better than that coach. Almost everyone here had criticized coach Chot Reyes before, but does that mean those people think/believe they know better than coach Chot?

 

[Metta2]

Nobody here have illusions of knowing better than coach Tim. Criticising a coach, especially in coach Tim's stature, doesn't translate to illusioning to be knowing better than that coach. Almost everyone here had criticized coach Chot Reyes before, but does that mean those people think/believe they know better than coach Chot?

I'm not sure about that bro. Plenty of folks here think/call Chot, Josh, etc bumbling idiots. If they call someone an idiot and yet they still think/believe the idiot is better than them, then that makes them....hmmm.

If I'm a pro chess player and a miron is questionin my moves, then it's fair to assume he thinks he knows more than me.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I'm not sure about that bro. Plenty of folks here think/call Chot, Josh, etc bumbling idiots. If they call someone an idiot and yet they still think/believe the idiot is better than them, then that makes them....hmmm.

If I'm a pro chess player and a miron is questionin my moves, then it's fair to assume he thinks he knows more than me.

Well, the criticisms against coach Chot are more like about his stubbornness & persistency in coaching the national team despite it has been very clear that his coaching, as far as the FIBA game is concerned, is already passe & ineffective & that the entire Philippine basketball community didn't want him to coach Gilas anymore. People were just fed up on coach Chot's kapal ng mukha & kapal ng apog. I don't don't think those critics think/believe that they are better than coach Chot as far as coaching is concerned.

 

[Metta2]

Well, the criticisms against coach Chot are more like about his stubbornness & persistency in coaching the national team despite it has been very clear that his coaching, as far as the FIBA game is concerned, is already passe & ineffective & that the entire Philippine basketball community didn't want him to coach Gilas anymore. People were just fed up on coach Chot's kapal ng mukha & kapal ng apog. I don't don't think those critics think/believe that they are better than coach Chot as far as coaching is concerned.

If you think people were not criticizing his coaching then I have nothing more to say.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

If you think people were not criticizing his coaching then I have nothing more to say.

Well, I'm aware that "some" of his critics were criticising his coaching per se, but it's more like these critics were saying that the dribble-drive-offense is already passe & was no longer working for Gilas at that point.

Still, that does not translate or suggest that those critics were thinking that they know better than coach Chot.

I this is also the same as criticising a player for being a ballhog or bwaya, ang lagay ba eh porke I can't come close to being as good or talented as that player eh wala na akong karapatan mag criticize sa kanya?

 

[IPC2]

Well, I'm aware that "some" of his critics were criticising his coaching per se, but it's more like these critics were saying that the dribble-drive-offense is already passe & was no longer working for Gilas at that point.

Still, that does not translate or suggest that those critics were thinking that they know better than coach Chot.

I this is also the same as criticising a player for being a ballhog or bwaya, ang lagay ba eh porke I can't come close to being as good or talented as that player eh wala na akong karapatan mag criticize sa kanya?

That was criticizing his coaching. Tactics is part of coaching.

To be fair, though, I think some of it was warranted. The lineups with undersized players at 3 when Gabe was not around, for instance, and then I felt that he sacrificed defense too much for offense. Buti nga, he adapted to a more defensive style with TNT.

And then another was allowing Indonesia to shoot 13-31 from three when we lost to them in 2022. That was off their outing of 14-31 shooting from three in their previous game against Vietnam. Despite that, we still allowed Indonesia to get going from three in that game. Perimeter defense was poor. Furthermore, we lost with a rotation of Kiefer, Thirdy, Wright, Troy, June Mar, Pogoy, Mo, and Montalbo. Of that rotation, I remember Thirdy as the only decent defender. Tungcab and Navarro, who are good defenders, were DNP's, as well as Lopez.

 

[Metta2]

The chess analogy is better. Rational people would never question the moves of a grandmaster because they know that even if they can think in "10 steps ahead" moves, the grandmaster probably thinks in "100 steps ahead" moves. Only naive people will think they considered more moves than the grandmaster.

It's fine to be critical, but to have such strong convictions that a guy like CTC has never considered ideas (and obvious ones at that) that ordinary people came up with is to put it mildly...naive. Just like only naive people would think things exist in a vacuum devoid of politics, money, pataasan ng ihi, etc. That's the ecosystem the Guy In The Arena has to navigate through. Give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he delivers the results.

 

[live_evil2]

The criticism against Choke and Joke were very simple. The opponent has the hot hand shooting 3s and they tell their players to go zone. Even a barangay coach knows you don't do that. That is what happened to Gilas under Toroman when Chot meddled in the coaching and made the Gilas players go zone in a crucial game against Jordan that was coached by Tab at that time if my memory is correct. Tab must be smiling from ear-to-ear seeing that defensive tactic from Gilas.

 

[IPC2]

The criticism against Choke and Joke were very simple. The opponent has the hot hand shooting 3s and they tell their players to go zone. Even a barangay coach knows you don't do that. That is what happened to Gilas under Toroman when Chot meddled in the coaching and made the Gilas go zone in a crucial game against Jordan that was coached by Tab at that time if my memory is correct. Tab must be smiling from ear-to-ear seeing that defensive tactic from Gilas.

I remember an instance of us going zone for both Chot and Josh, both in 2022.

In the SEA Games, Chot went zone against Indonesia despite the fact that they were coming off a 14-31 shooting game against Vietnam. Ayun, they shot 13-31 (41.9%) against us.

And in the FIBA Asia U18, Lebanon were shooting well from three when we zoned them. We kept the zone despite them making a boatload of threes. That game, Lebanon shot 17-30 (56.7%) from three.

 

[IPC2]

A non-Gilas player plays well... IBN: lets get him for Gilas! lol

Cone is not replacing his 12 unless one retires. His reserves can be replaced but it will be debatable if that replacement is really better than Mason, Japeth, or even Troy playing under CTC's system. I bet if Mason was not there, someone would be calling out for him to be there. CTC will never please everyone. But winning makes everyone happy and that is what he is bringing to Gilas right now. We cannot questions his decisions because he is winning. He played in Latvia without a natural PG, for chrisakes.

The chess analogy is better. Rational people would never question the moves of a grandmaster because they know that even if they can think in "10 steps ahead" moves, the grandmaster probably thinks in "100 steps ahead" moves. Only naive people will think they considered more moves than the grandmaster.

It's fine to be critical, but to have such strong convictions that a guy like CTC has never considered ideas (and obvious ones at that) that ordinary people came up with is to put it mildly...naive. Just like only naive people would think things exist in a vacuum devoid of politics, money, pataasan ng ihi, etc. That's the ecosystem the Guy In The Arena has to navigate through. Give him the benefit of the doubt as long as he delivers the results.

OK, let's go the results front. The goal is the 2028 Olympics. For that, we need to qualify for the 2027 World Cup. Finishing high in the Asia Cup may help in that goal too, as it will affect our ranking.

For now, we need wins in key games without Kai in the Asia Cup and the first round of the World Cup qualifying windows. How do we get those key wins against the Asia-Pacific powers without Kai?​ Now, I think it's easier with AJ around, because he can be an interior presence for extended minutes. I think we have a better chance if we defend well. And we have a better chance at defending well with a competent interior defender. Without both AJ and Kai, there will come the challenge. I think it will be more challenging if JB's successor isn't an interior defender and we don't have another FIBA-eligible interior defender in the pool after Japeth. How would we get the results we need in those situations? I hope Coach Tim has a plan for that.

 

[Metta2]

OK, let's go the results front. The goal is the 2028 Olympics. For that, we need to qualify for the 2027 World Cup. Finishing high in the Asia Cup may help in that goal too, as it will affect our ranking.

For now, we need wins in key games without Kai in the Asia Cup and the first round of the World Cup qualifying windows. How do we get those key wins against the Asia-Pacific powers without Kai?​ Now, I think it's easier with AJ around, because he can be an interior presence for extended minutes. I think we have a better chance if we defend well. And we have a better chance at defending well with a competent interior defender. Without both AJ and Kai, there will come the challenge. I think it will be more challenging if JB's successor isn't an interior defender and we don't have another FIBA-eligible interior defender in the pool after Japeth. How would we get the results we need in those situations? I hope Coach Tim has a plan for that.

The whole point of my rants were...I'm good with what CTC decides on. Then, when future results come, that's when things can be reconsidered. Results based.

So far, his most recent results show that what he's doing is the best option. People have such short memories that the wins against Latvia, NZ, Asian gold, etc doesn't give the current staff the benefit of the doubt. Before those achievements, guys were panicking about not having Edu, having slow-ass Kai/JMFduo, no trad PG, small NP Brownlee, outdated triangle, etc. on and on and on. ​

 

[IPC2]

The whole point of my rants were...I'm good with what CTC decides on. Then, when future results come, that's when things can be reconsidered. Results based.

So far, his most recent results show that what he's doing is the best option. People have such short memories that the wins against Latvia, NZ, Asian gold, etc doesn't give the current staff the benefit of the doubt. Before those achievements, guys were panicking about not having Edu, having slow-ass Kai/JMFduo, no trad PG, small NP Brownlee, outdated triangle, etc. on and on and on.

OK, sir, I note your points. I'm just worried about future results, is all. Like I said, we need a lot of good results in the near future, and leading to the World Cup and the Olympics. I hope we get those results. If we win by whatever means, then so be it.

 

[IPC2]

When coach Tim said that KQ is so versatile that he can play as a guard, wingman & as a big man, I think such statement was just a hyperbole & should not be taken literally.
I don't think KQ has the quickness & the handles to play as either a point guard or shooting guard. In Philippine college & our domestic leagues KQ can play as a 4 & perhaps even as a center. But in the FIBA game, he would be undersized to play as a four, moreso the center position. Perhaps against some Asian teams with not so big/tall big men like Taiwan, Bahrain, UAE, KQ can play the four for Gilas.

So for me, KQ's most comfortable position in the FIBA game would be the 3 spot or the small forward position. His improved 3-pt shooting is his calling card playing in that position. I hope KQ's quickness & laterals are good enough for the 3 spot.

Who are the players he's competing with at the 3 spot? Ball handling and defence IMO are his bigger question marks.

Quiambao is competing with Oftana and Malonzo at 3 when it comes to locals. Maybe Dwight too.

 

[Rds2]

Quiambao is competing with Oftana and Malonzo at 3 when it comes to locals. Maybe Dwight too.

Malonzo is still recovering. KQ did decently defensively in Dubai and suffice to say he’s not afraid to shoot. It remains to be seen if Oftana will have a shooting touch in Fiba. KQ brought over his shooting to KBL. Based on that I see him shooting better than Oftana unless Oftana improves drastically.

 

[sroth38392]

Quiambao is competing with Oftana and Malonzo at 3 when it comes to locals. Maybe Dwight too.

It’s currently KQ > Oftana and Malonzo

Last games he showed he could shoot the 3 better, provide assists, and defend.

Oftana mukhang may fear factor pa rin.

Malonzo just came back from an injury and looks overweight.

Dwight is more of a 2 unless JB plays 4 with Perez or Newsome on the floor at the same time.

 

[ARMIR2]

It’s currently KQ > Oftana and Malonzo

Last games he showed he could shoot the 3 better, provide assists, and defend.

Oftana mukhang may fear factor pa rin.

Malonzo just came back from an injury and looks overweight.

Dwight is more of a 2 unless JB plays 4 with Perez or Newsome on the floor at the same time.

Oftana is your guy if SEA and Asian Games,beyond that,kinda iffy,with Malonzo its streaky you learned to take the ups and downs.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

It’s currently KQ > Oftana and Malonzo

Last games he showed he could shoot the 3 better, provide assists, and defend.

Oftana mukhang may fear factor pa rin.

Malonzo just came back from an injury and looks overweight.

Dwight is more of a 2 unless JB plays 4 with Perez or Newsome on the floor at the same time.

Offensively KQ did better with Gilas compared to Oftana & Malonzo, but I think Oftana has earned coach Tim's confidence in the defensive aspect hence Oftana got the more playing time compared to KQ so far.

Oftana, while playing mostly as a four during college days with San Beda, has been transformed into a legitimate small forward in the PBA. At yun naman talaga ang laro ni Oftana. KQ on the other hand, while he has developed a reliable 3-pt shooting, is still developing the handles & the mobility of a natural wingman.

Despite Oftana's struggle in 3-pt shooting with Gilas, I'm still optimistic that his 3-pt shots would start to fall soon in the FIBA game.

 

[sroth38392]

Offensively KQ did better with Gilas compared to Oftana & Malonzo, but I think Oftana has earned coach Tim's confidence in the defensive aspect hence Oftana got the more playing time compared to KQ so far.

Oftana, while playing mostly as a four during college days with San Beda, has been transformed into a legitimate small forward in the PBA. At yun naman talaga ang laro ni Oftana. KQ on the other hand, while he has developed a reliable 3-pt shooting, is still developing the handles & the mobility of a natural wingman.

Despite Oftana's struggle in 3-pt shooting with Gilas, I'm still optimistic that his 3-pt shots would start to fall soon in the FIBA game.

This is why Navarro should be included in the pool.

He already does all the above and arguably better at it.

CTC is simply too rigid.

Tuffin and Balti as well.

 

[thatweirdguy2]

Offensively KQ did better with Gilas compared to Oftana & Malonzo, but I think Oftana has earned coach Tim's confidence in the defensive aspect hence Oftana got the more playing time compared to KQ so far.

Oftana, while playing mostly as a four during college days with San Beda, has been transformed into a legitimate small forward in the PBA. At yun naman talaga ang laro ni Oftana. KQ on the other hand, while he has developed a reliable 3-pt shooting, is still developing the handles & the mobility of a natural wingman.

Despite Oftana's struggle in 3-pt shooting with Gilas, I'm still optimistic that his 3-pt shots would start to fall soon in the FIBA game.

Dont ask me how but somehow I feel that KQ might turn out to be the better player but Oftana is the better wing right now. KQ is still a bit untested while Oftana has been a pro for a while now. I feel like if we're gonna move on from him it's better to also try to add Navarro , Tuffin or other taller, defensive wings into the mix.