Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

BRP didnt really push himself to be better, right? Or was it the weight of the nation that burned him. He at least tried the GLeague and Summer League circuits, but yeah, i guess he already peaked and plateau'd and just settled to be a rotation player in Japan.

Oh man.... once you get the women and the money, you do get complacent. But I don't think he plateau'd, he's just... steady. Consistently playing at a high level. Watch his games in Japan and he's solid.

I still feel like BRP would love to play for Gilas. His heart to play for flag is still there. Eh kung ayaw sayo ni Chot edi kay Zeinab ka muna diba? Just can't understand what was the thought process of Chot choosing Pogoy over him in the World Cup. Was it PBA representation? Tropang Giga representation? Still salty Parks chose BLeague over TNT? Parks would have been the perfect bail out guy when our offense became stagnant outside of Dwight and Rhenz.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

Why are we so fixated in exempting Kouame. Thats close to impossible. We dont even give our NPs opportunity to play in the PBA. The question should be is can we continue to deny Kouame the NP slot? JB is aging and can be limited by more athletic teams. Boatwright is just a one dimensional shooter with a wingspan just equal to his height of 6’9.5. Edu is often injured. If we hope to reach higher comp we need a center NP. Kai is good but he wont be as strong as JF nor even Kouame. He is best as a stretch 5 and not a post player. We need Kouame for that.

Gilas with Kouame is like Gilas 2.0 with Douthit. We have to exempt Kouame so we can have another naturalized wing which is our main weakness. We can't produce a 6'6-6'8 multidimensional scorer.

We have to seek exemption of both Kouame and Clarkson actually. Both are appealable cases. Clarkson having Filipino blood, Kouame spending his young adult life in the Philippines.

 

[JOI2dWorld2]

Gilas with Kouame is like Gilas 2.0 with Douthit. We have to exempt Kouame so we can have another naturalized wing which is our main weakness. We can't produce a 6'6-6'8 multidimensional scorer.

We have to seek exemption of both Kouame and Clarkson actually. Both are appealable cases. Clarkson having Filipino blood, Kouame spending his young adult life in the Philippines.

This, Kouame being the naturalized player is only an option if there is a local that is a dynamic scorer, Kouame is not Blatche who can carry the scoring, Kouame's offensive game is not that good to be considered as the first naturalized option, that's why some of us want him to be exempted, Abassi's case can be a good ground for Kouame's exemption, the only thing needs to happen is allowing him to play as a local in PBA

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

Oh man.... once you get the women and the money, you do get complacent. But I don't think he plateau'd, he's just... steady. Consistently playing at a high level. Watch his games in Japan and he's solid.

I still feel like BRP would love to play for Gilas. His heart to play for flag is still there. Eh kung ayaw sayo ni Chot edi kay Zeinab ka muna diba? Just can't understand what was the thought process of Chot choosing Pogoy over him in the World Cup. Was it PBA representation? Tropang Giga representation? Still salty Parks chose BLeague over TNT? Parks would have been the perfect bail out guy when our offense became stagnant outside of Dwight and Rhenz.

Well, you already know the answer… The much known guys who are really fit for Gilas such as Abando, Baltazar is also not there… even the NBA guy Clarkson also denied…

 

[Rds2]

This, Kouame being the naturalized player is only an option if there is a local that is a dynamic scorer, Kouame is not Blatche who can carry the scoring, Kouame's offensive game is not that good to be considered as the first naturalized option, that's why some of us want him to be exempted, Abassi's case can be a good ground for Kouame's exemption, the only thing needs to happen is allowing him to play as a local in PBA

Kouame being exempted is unlikely. Him playing as a local in the PBA is unlikely. Even Japan does not treat NPs as locals. I dont believe a high scoring NP is required. Remember Tabs team? That team was close to defeating Serbia without Dwight. There goes SF scoring for you. And that was early in his program. Balti was only a couple of months in his program and was already a key contributor. You can imagine with more development Tab’s Gilas would be at par with Euro teams. He was not as successful against DR but that was without Dwight. And again with more development we might have also been competitive against them. A high scoring NP is not necessary if you have the whole team being able to generate offense.

 

[IPC2]

Why are we so fixated in exempting Kouame. Thats close to impossible. We dont even give our NPs opportunity to play in the PBA. The question should be is can we continue to deny Kouame the NP slot? JB is aging and can be limited by more athletic teams. Boatwright is just a one dimensional shooter with a wingspan just equal to his height of 6’9.5. Edu is often injured. If we hope to reach higher comp we need a center NP. Kai is good but he wont be as strong as JF nor even Kouame. He is best as a stretch 5 and not a post player. We need Kouame for that.

Gilas with Kouame is like Gilas 2.0 with Douthit. We have to exempt Kouame so we can have another naturalized wing which is our main weakness. We can't produce a 6'6-6'8 multidimensional scorer.

We have to seek exemption of both Kouame and Clarkson actually. Both are appealable cases. Clarkson having Filipino blood, Kouame spending his young adult life in the Philippines.

This, Kouame being the naturalized player is only an option if there is a local that is a dynamic scorer, Kouame is not Blatche who can carry the scoring, Kouame's offensive game is not that good to be considered as the first naturalized option, that's why some of us want him to be exempted, Abassi's case can be a good ground for Kouame's exemption, the only thing needs to happen is allowing him to play as a local in PBA

Kouame being naturalized is unlikely. Him playing as a local is unlikely. Even Japan does not treat NPs as locals. I dont believe a high scoring NP is required. Remember Tabs team? That team was close to defeating Serbia without Dwight. There goes SF scoring for you. And that was early in his program. Balti was only a couple of months in his program and was already a key contributor. You can imagine with more development Tab’s Gilas would be at par with Euro teams. He was not as successful against DR but that was without Dwight. And again with more development we might have also been competitive against them. A high scoring NP is not necessary if you have the whole team being able to generate offense.

I feel it's easier to develop a FIBA-level go-to guy in our context, even if that go-to-guy is just a guard, than it is to develop a defensive big.​​​ As for the wing, you can be content with someone who can defend (Gabe, Navarro).

But, look, we defended well as a team without AJ, and we can sustain that against big teams leading up to the FIBA Asia Cup next year. Thing is, we had Newsome, CJ, Dwight, and JB leading the charge there. With JB retiring, we lose an impact defender.

Our post-2025 FIBA Asia Cup lineup will be the one to watch. June Mar will be 36 in November, JB will be 37 by then, and Newsome will be 35. If they retire, how will we replace them? If they stay, can they be as effective?

 

[Rds2]

I feel it's easier to develop a FIBA-level go-to guy in our context, even if that go-to-guy is just a guard, than it is to develop a defensive big.​​​ As for the wing, you can be content with someone who can defend (Gabe, Navarro).

But, look, we defended well as a team without AJ, and we can sustain that against big teams leading up to the FIBA Asia Cup next year. Thing is, we had Newsome, CJ, Dwight, and JB leading the charge there. With JB retiring, we lose an impact defender.

Our post-2025 FIBA Asia Cup lineup will be the one to watch. June Mar will be 36 in November, JB will be 37 by then, and Newsome will be 35. If they retire, how will we replace them? If they stay, can they be as effective?

We have to be realistic. Ineligibles like Newsome and Greg will probably only be exempted in their 30s. We cant bank our national team program on ineligibles. Much more with NPs being exempted.

We can only rely on our home growns, Filfors who got their passports by 15 and one NP. Anything else is just wishful thinking. Yes libre lang mangarap. But to save on heartaches we have to work on what we have.

Developing another Newsome is unlikely. He is like a Norwood. In terms of perimeter defense our prototype should be Navarro. Yes he was raised abroad for a few year. But any training he took to be an impactful perimeter defender in Fiba our homegrowns can undertake. In fact our college guys are becoming better perimeter players because of FSAs.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

I feel it's easier to develop a FIBA-level go-to guy in our context, even if that go-to-guy is just a guard, than it is to develop a defensive big.​​​ As for the wing, you can be content with someone who can defend (Gabe, Navarro).

But, look, we defended well as a team without AJ, and we can sustain that against big teams leading up to the FIBA Asia Cup next year. Thing is, we had Newsome, CJ, Dwight, and JB leading the charge there. With JB retiring, we lose an impact defender.

Our post-2025 FIBA Asia Cup lineup will be the one to watch. June Mar will be 36 in November, JB will be 37 by then, and Newsome will be 35. If they retire, how will we replace them? If they stay, can they be as effective?

We have to prepare for post-Junemar & JB era. It was the tandem we should've had YEARS ago. Maybe since 2018. Lucky for us they brought us to Asian Games glory. Problem is we kept on experimenting and we were not as committed. We DID NOT HAVE A VISION.

- We sent a team full of ineligibles in Asian Games 2018 where we could have medaled.

- We sent a trash team with overweight Andray Blatche to FIBA WC 2019 where we could have been the BEST Asian team and qualified to Tokyo 2020.

- We lost to Indonesia in the SEA Games because we had no reliable scorer aside from Matthew Wright (could have been JB)

- We had a shot at FIBA Asia Cup 2022 Trophy if we did not send a cadet team.

A lot of should-haves could-haves but it was all because of the turmoil between SMC and MVP group back then. Glad they fixed it already.

But yeah, the fact is Tim Cone CANNOT keep this core moving forward. There are changes that needs to be made to address glaring weaknesses. As seen in that Brazil game, opponents will take advantage and exploit any mismatches they see. I know Tim wants to play short rotations but we have to be 12-strong. His system works but BETTER players need to execute his system.

Oftana KQ Tamayo and Amos, as much as we see promise in them, their motor's not made for World level comp. Too slow, too stiff, too one-dimensional. In Asia they might dominate but we have 4 years to look for other players that can compete at Olympic level. They need to include Caelum Harris and Lebron Lopez so they can learn the system ASAP.

As for Newsome, he'll be tough to replace as well but knowing his character, discipline work ethic and leadership, we need him for next year's FIBA Asia Cup. After that we need to find a replacement ASAP because he'll be 37 come World Cup, 38 in the Olympics. Him, CJ and Scottie may be enough until next year.

Schonny Winston is a future superstar. Robert Bolick leads the PBA in scoring and assist. Juan Gomez de Liano is an international journeyman. These 3 guys need to be in that expanded pool in preparation for Newsome's inevitable departure. We need to have a pipeline, this current pool is too limited if the goal is LA 2028.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

We have to be realistic. Ineligibles like Newsome and Greg will probably only be exempted in their 30s. We cant bank our national team program on ineligibles. Much more with NPs being exempted.

We can only rely on our home growns, Filfors who got their passports by 15 and one NP. Anything else is just wishful thinking. Yes libre lang mangarap. But to save on heartaches we have to work on what we have.

Developing another Newsome is unlikely. He is like a Norwood. In terms of perimeter defense our prototype should be Navarro. Yes he was raised abroad for a few year. But any training he took to be an impactful perimeter defender in Fiba our homegrowns can undertake. In fact our college guys are becoming better perimeter players because of FSAs.

Funny thing is we lose Chris Newsome whole team loses its identity. Tim Cone needs to find a successor already.

 

[IPC2]

We have to prepare for post-Junemar & JB era. It was the tandem we should've had YEARS ago. Maybe since 2018. Lucky for us they brought us to Asian Games glory. Problem is we kept on experimenting and we were not as committed. We DID NOT HAVE A VISION.

- We sent a team full of ineligibles in Asian Games 2018 where we could have medaled.

- We sent a trash team with overweight Andray Blatche to FIBA WC 2019 where we could have been the BEST Asian team and qualified to Tokyo 2020.

- We lost to Indonesia in the SEA Games because we had no reliable scorer aside from Matthew Wright (could have been JB)

- We had a shot at FIBA Asia Cup 2022 Trophy if we did not send a cadet team.

A lot of should-haves could-haves but it was all because of the turmoil between SMC and MVP group back then. Glad they fixed it already.

But yeah, the fact is Tim Cone CANNOT keep this core moving forward. There are changes that needs to be made to address glaring weaknesses. As seen in that Brazil game, opponents will take advantage and exploit any mismatches they see. I know Tim wants to play short rotations but we have to be 12-strong. His system works but BETTER players need to execute his system.

Oftana KQ Tamayo and Amos, as much as we see promise in them, their motor's not made for World level comp. Too slow, too stiff, too one-dimensional. In Asia they might dominate but we have 4 years to look for other players that can compete at Olympic level. They need to include Caelum Harris and Lebron Lopez so they can learn the system ASAP.

As for Newsome, he'll be tough to replace as well but knowing his character, discipline work ethic and leadership, we need him for next year's FIBA Asia Cup. After that we need to find a replacement ASAP because he'll be 37 come World Cup, 38 in the Olympics. Him, CJ and Scottie may be enough until next year.

Schonny Winston is a future superstar. Robert Bolick leads the PBA in scoring and assist. Juan Gomez de Liano is an international journeyman. These 3 guys need to be in that expanded pool in preparation for Newsome's inevitable departure. We need to have a pipeline, this current pool is too limited if the goal is LA 2028.

As for Indonesia, they shot 13-31 from 3 for 41.9%. We couldn't defend for shit. And coupled with leaving Will Navarro and even Jaydee Tungcab on the bench, that spelled disaster for our defense.

As for the program as a whole, the local players that came after Castro, Jimmy, RDO, and Ping weren't good, with the exception of Terrence (whose production tailed off later on) and Abueva. Maybe Lee in stretches. At least we now have have a better pool to choose from. Hopefully we learn. Have a succession plan in place so that we can easily replace the aging players. The good veterans are old (June Mar, Newsome, Marcio), but no other veterans are good enough other than Scottie, CJ, and Parks.

We need to include guys like Caelum Harris, Francis Lopez, Jacob Bayla, agreed. At least these guys fit the mold I'd like for a wing, which is good defense. At least include them in an expanded pool. One of Harris, Lopez, and Bayla should succeed June Mar if we can't find a capable defensive big. If we're gonna include new players, though, they should be just piecemeal additions so that we can integrate them one by one.

Oh, yeah, Schonny. I forgot that he's a good two-way player. Maybe he can be a capable replacement for Newsome. He's 26, so he'll have more years for us.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

As for Indonesia, they shot 13-31 from 3 for 41.9%. We couldn't defend for shit. And coupled with leaving Will Navarro and even Jaydee Tungcab on the bench, that spelled disaster for our defense.

As for the program as a whole, the local players that came after Castro, Jimmy, RDO, and Ping weren't good, with the exception of Terrence (whose production tailed off later on) and Abueva. Maybe Lee in stretches. At least we now have have a better pool to choose from. Hopefully we learn. Have a succession plan in place so that we can easily replace the aging players. The good veterans are old (June Mar, Newsome, Marcio), but no other veterans are good enough other than Scottie, CJ, and Parks.

We need to include guys like Caelum Harris, Francis Lopez, Jacob Bayla, agreed. At least these guys fit the mold I'd like for a wing, which is good defense. At least include them in an expanded pool. One of Harris, Lopez, and Bayla should succeed June Mar if we can't find a capable defensive big. If we're gonna include new players, though, they should be just piecemeal additions so that we can integrate them one by one.

Oh, yeah, Schonny. I forgot that he's a good two-way player. Maybe he can be a capable replacement for Newsome. He's 26, so he'll have more years for us.

Agreed. back then we didn't really have anyone else. 6'0 Paul Lee and Terrence Romeo were the best we could come up with. Now we have 6'7 Tamayo, Malonzo and KQ, who seem to have no clue they can be at least the next Samad Nikkhah Bahrami or even better.

 

[Dotch2]

We have to prepare for post-Junemar & JB era. It was the tandem we should've had YEARS ago. Maybe since 2018. Lucky for us they brought us to Asian Games glory. Problem is we kept on experimenting and we were not as committed. We DID NOT HAVE A VISION.

- We sent a team full of ineligibles in Asian Games 2018 where we could have medaled.

- We sent a trash team with overweight Andray Blatche to FIBA WC 2019 where we could have been the BEST Asian team and qualified to Tokyo 2020.

- We lost to Indonesia in the SEA Games because we had no reliable scorer aside from Matthew Wright (could have been JB)

- We had a shot at FIBA Asia Cup 2022 Trophy if we did not send a cadet team.

A lot of should-haves could-haves but it was all because of the turmoil between SMC and MVP group back then. Glad they fixed it already.

But yeah, the fact is Tim Cone CANNOT keep this core moving forward. There are changes that needs to be made to address glaring weaknesses. As seen in that Brazil game, opponents will take advantage and exploit any mismatches they see. I know Tim wants to play short rotations but we have to be 12-strong. His system works but BETTER players need to execute his system.

Oftana KQ Tamayo and Amos, as much as we see promise in them, their motor's not made for World level comp. Too slow, too stiff, too one-dimensional. In Asia they might dominate but we have 4 years to look for other players that can compete at Olympic level. They need to include Caelum Harris and Lebron Lopez so they can learn the system ASAP.

As for Newsome, he'll be tough to replace as well but knowing his character, discipline work ethic and leadership, we need him for next year's FIBA Asia Cup. After that we need to find a replacement ASAP because he'll be 37 come World Cup, 38 in the Olympics. Him, CJ and Scottie may be enough until next year.

Schonny Winston is a future superstar. Robert Bolick leads the PBA in scoring and assist. Juan Gomez de Liano is an international journeyman. These 3 guys need to be in that expanded pool in preparation for Newsome's inevitable departure. We need to have a pipeline, this current pool is too limited if the goal is LA 2028.

SMC refused to lend its players back in 2015, where the CTB coached PHL finished second to China. SMC could've lent Fajardo, Japeth, SuperUbo, Arwind, LA to beef up AB, RDO, Ping, Castro, Gabe, TR, Abueva, etc.

I think that was the easiest path to the Olympics as we've beaten Iran, Lebanon and Japan with a rag tag team, and AUS and NZ werent part of the FIBA Asia yet. Only China was on our way.

Turned out, SMC was also on our way

 

[Metta2]

As for Indonesia, they shot 13-31 from 3 for 41.9%. We couldn't defend for shit. And coupled with leaving Will Navarro and even Jaydee Tungcab on the bench, that spelled disaster for our defense.

As for the program as a whole, the local players that came after Castro, Jimmy, RDO, and Ping weren't good, with the exception of Terrence (whose production tailed off later on) and Abueva. Maybe Lee in stretches. At least we now have have a better pool to choose from. Hopefully we learn. Have a succession plan in place so that we can easily replace the aging players. The good veterans are old (June Mar, Newsome, Marcio), but no other veterans are good enough other than Scottie, CJ, and Parks.

We need to include guys like Caelum Harris, Francis Lopez, Jacob Bayla, agreed. At least these guys fit the mold I'd like for a wing, which is good defense. At least include them in an expanded pool. One of Harris, Lopez, and Bayla should succeed June Mar if we can't find a capable defensive big. If we're gonna include new players, though, they should be just piecemeal additions so that we can integrate them one by one.

Oh, yeah, Schonny. I forgot that he's a good two-way player. Maybe he can be a capable replacement for Newsome. He's 26, so he'll have more years for us.

Winston does have an excellent mid-range game which fits the triangle. If he can raise his defensive intensity, he is someone that can be a candidate for the Newsome role.

Then guys like Caelum, Bayla, etc are next in line.

 

[hmbopbaduwap2]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ph...8/georgia-coach-visits-pinoys-lockerroom/amp/

Chambers said the win over Latvia was a total team effort. “First and foremost, our mindset was we can play with any team in the world,” he said. “Dwight (Ramos) sacrificed his offense to defend (Davis) Bertans. Justin (Brownlee) was elite on all levels. Kai impacted the game on both ends of the court with his aggressiveness and presence. Can’t forget contributions from June Mar (Fajardo) and Chris (Newsome).”

Former Gilas coach Rajko Toroman said for the team to sustain momentum, it’s critical to keep Cone for the long term. “Also, work on a new, younger import with the same mentality as Brownlee,” he said. “Basketball is not an individual sport so system and chemistry are important.”

Toroman said he hasn’t seen Bennie Boatwright in action but for a naturalized player, it’s key to work within the system and not just demand the ball to try to win by himself. Toroman pointed to four factors that signal a bright future for Gilas. “First, with Kai, June Mar and Japeth (Aguilar), Gilas is very competitive on size,” he said. “Second, players have more international experience. Third, the players believe in Tim’s system. Fourth, Brownlee fits excellently, jells well, knows the system and mentality of his teammates because he’s played in the PBA since 2016.”
​

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ph...8/georgia-coach-visits-pinoys-lockerroom/amp/

Chambers said the win over Latvia was a total team effort. “First and foremost, our mindset was we can play with any team in the world,” he said. “Dwight (Ramos) sacrificed his offense to defend (Davis) Bertans. Justin (Brownlee) was elite on all levels. Kai impacted the game on both ends of the court with his aggressiveness and presence. Can’t forget contributions from June Mar (Fajardo) and Chris (Newsome).”

Former Gilas coach Rajko Toroman said for the team to sustain momentum, it’s critical to keep Cone for the long term. “Also, work on a new, younger import with the same mentality as Brownlee,” he said. “Basketball is not an individual sport so system and chemistry are important.”

Toroman said he hasn’t seen Bennie Boatwright in action but for a naturalized player, it’s key to work within the system and not just demand the ball to try to win by himself. Toroman pointed to four factors that signal a bright future for Gilas. “First, with Kai, June Mar and Japeth (Aguilar), Gilas is very competitive on size,” he said. “Second, players have more international experience. Third, the players believe in Tim’s system. Fourth, Brownlee fits excellently, jells well, knows the system and mentality of his teammates because he’s played in the PBA since 2016.”
​

What was missing in Toroman's team from qualifying to London? We were very close

 

[IPC2]

Agreed. back then we didn't really have anyone else. 6'0 Paul Lee and Terrence Romeo were the best we could come up with. Now we have 6'7 Tamayo, Malonzo and KQ, who seem to have no clue they can be at least the next Samad Nikkhah Bahrami or even better.

The only ones worth keeping at the time were June Mar, Japeth, Gabe, Terrence, Abueva, and Marcio. Maybe Lee. Wright, Pogoy, Troy, Almazan, Barroca weren't that great. Cabagnot and Greg came in too late.

Now we have a wealth of options from 1-3, and hopefully the pipeline for 4 comes.

 

[IPC2]

Gilas left scars on both Latvia and Georgia. Our defeat against Brazil is just a minor setback and exposes the team of what they need to work out.
​​​​​

​We were called a "technical" team by the Brazil coach. I guess we need to work on that, technique and system.

 

[Dotch2]

What was missing in Toroman's team from qualifying to London? We were very close

PHL was missing the SMC players Fajardo, Japeth, SuperUbo, Arwind, LA. etc. Instead PHL had to play over-the-hill players Asi, Thoss and Dondon, and the wrong JC ( Intal instead of Clarkson)

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

PHL was missing the SMC players Fajardo, Japeth, SuperUbo, Arwind, LA. etc. Instead PHL had to play over-the-hill players Asi, Thoss and Dondon, and the wrong JC ( Intal instead of Clarkson)

i think you're pertaining to the 2015 team handled by Tab Baldwin. Dondon was huge for them that year. Asi, MGR, Intal, Pingris and Thoss were all useless. they say China cooking show but Castro, Terrence, Calvin and Blatche were all shooting bricks. Dribble dribble then run into a wall.

Toroman's 2011 Gilas Team was the first iteration that trained together for years. Lost in the semis but they were much more systematic. I think they were a Junemar and a Dondon Hontiveros away from making it to London.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

​We were called a "technical" team by the Brazil coach. I guess we need to work on that, technique and system.

yeah fck they scouted us well. you see how they bump newsome after the first pass and how they throw 2 guys to Junemar upon catching. Brazil was very "technical" as well in limiting our options. That 2nd half was a defensive masterclass. I think ultimately, that semis game showed we can't have typical Tim Cone short rotations because international basketball will wear your players out. Look how tired JMF and JB looked in the 3rd qtr. We need more options we can go to when JB and Dwight gets cold, and when JMF gets shut down.