Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC2]

Here you go

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba/brownlee-back-for-oqt-as-edu-malonzo-out-of-gilas-a793-20240618?utm_source=Facebook-Spin&utm_medium=Ownshare&utm_campaign=20240618-fbnp-basketball-brownlee-back-for-oqt-as-edu-malonzo-out-of-gilas-a793-20240618-fbfirst&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0sAPyvkXg63lkU8 ZFj8_SxQwFEBfV_fV3tFvG-1xGB0VEU-DfI3sOfLig_aem_n-ErZPcb-kL65M71CeGBVg

speaking of iskati

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba/scottie-thompson-ruled-out-of-gilas-campaign-in-latvia-oqt-a795-20240621?utm_source=Facebook-Spin&utm_medium=Ownshare&utm_campaign=20240621-fbnp-basketball-scottie-thompson-ruled-out-of-gilas-campaign-in-latvia-oqt-a795-20240621-fbnew&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1uFDw_vnj16hC5oK9 6uTGRHnobYvJIE2JzziSMk-YIIUC_Jd2X8wRanXU_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

Basketball gods is sending signs to coach tim to add more players to the pool.. will coach tim continue to be stubborn?

​​Yep, we'll need more players in the pool.

We have two players who are capable of playing the 1 in Newsome and Scottie. CJ's not that capable, he's a 2. Otherwise, we'll rely on JB's playmaking again. But then again, Cone runs a system offense not requiring a playmaker. It only requires an initiator.

AJ's the bigger loss. As I say again and again, the current pool doesn't have anyone capable of replicating his impact on defense. We need a backup defensive big just in case.

 

[DenzelGreat82]

​​Yep, we'll need more players in the pool.

We have two players who are capable of playing the 1 in Newsome and Scottie. CJ's not that capable, he's a 2. Otherwise, we'll rely on JB's playmaking again. But then again, Cone runs a system offense not requiring a playmaker. It only requires an initiator.

AJ's the bigger loss. As I say again and again, the current pool doesn't have anyone capable of replicating his impact on defense. We need a backup defensive big just in case.

Grabe naman, are they not allowed to replace injured players? It's not like Scottie does not have this lingering issue since last month. Bolick is the most logical replacement or at the very least, get Terrence Romeo if Tim Cone is vouching for familiarity since Terrence already trained for him last Asian games.

 

[IPC2]

Grabe naman, are they not allowed to replace injured players? It's not like Scottie does not have this lingering issue since last month. Bolick is the most logical replacement or at the very least, get Terrence Romeo if Tim Cone is vouching for familiarity since Terrence already trained for him last Asian games.

Cone named only 12 players to his pool from 2024 to the 2028 Olympics in Feb. Added Japeth and Mason later in case of injuries to bigs. Just 14 in the pool.

Cone's concern with changing players is chemistry.

 

[reamily2]

Cone named only 12 players to his pool from 2024 to the 2028 Olympics in Feb. Added Japeth and Mason later in case of injuries to bigs. Just 14 in the pool.

Cone's concern with changing players is chemistry.

and fans unrealistic expectations.. (why is payer x not selected or what)

 

[Rds2]

Cone named only 12 players to his pool from 2024 to the 2028 Olympics in Feb. Added Japeth and Mason later in case of injuries to bigs. Just 14 in the pool.

Cone's concern with changing players is chemistry.

Scottie has been bad in the PBA. It was against Meralco. But still a former MVP and a Gilas member should be better. Perez had some good games. But Scottie has been generally bad. Don’t we have other tall guard options?

I think we will see how our players perform in the next games. If there are players that outright suck and there are clear alternatives not in the pool I expect Cone and SMC to feel the pressure.

The reason why you have more than 12 is not just for injuries. It is because the PBA game is far from Fiba. Perez can dominate the PBA but he has been like a headless chicken in Fiba. Good thing Meralco’s there to show in the PBA his weaknesses.

You get a bigger pool because our brand of ball is far from Fiba level. There are guys who might not be as good in the PBA but may be more useful in Fiba like say Navarro. You have a pool so you see who can develop better to be more useful in the Fiba games. If we really look bad in the next games I expect Cone et al to feel the pressure. No amount of chemistry will be helpful if guys dont adapt to the Fiba game.

 

[IPC2]

Scottie has been bad in the PBA. It was against Meralco. But still a former MVP and a Gilas member should be better. Perez had some good games. But Scottie has been generally bad. Don’t we have other tall guard options?

I think we will see how our players perform in the next games. If there are players that outright suck and there are clear alternatives not in the pool I expect Cone and SMC to feel the pressure.

The reason why you have more than 12 is not just for injuries. It is because the PBA game is far from Fiba. Perez can dominate the PBA but he has been like a headless chicken in Fiba. Good thing Meralco’s there to show in the PBA his weaknesses.

You get a bigger pool because our brand of ball is far from Fiba level. There are guys who might not be as good in the PBA but may be more useful in Fiba like say Navarro. You have a pool so you see who can develop better to be more useful in the Fiba games. If we really look bad in the next games I expect Cone et al to feel the pressure. No amount of chemistry will be helpful if guys dont adapt to the Fiba game.

This 14 has holes. Sir Tuck mentioned some: size in the wings, shooting, defense, and good playmaking.

I think defense is a major concern. In the pool, we have four reliable defenders in Scottie, Newsome, AJ, and JB. Newsome turns 34 next month, Scottie turns 31 next month, and JB's 36. Japeth's not really an anchor, June Mar is BBQ chicken in PnR and has compensated only through his scoring and rebounding. CJ's strength on defense is passing lanes, but he got attacked repeatedly by Newsome and Banchero in the PBA Finals last week, with good success. Oftana has regressed on defense, he's getting blown by more easily in the PBA. I project Carl and Quiambao to be better off as system defenders who can switch, not really game-changers on that end. A lot of pressure on Kai to improve on that end (hopefully he does before JB retires).

I don't know if we can trust a gameplan without a defense. I personally don't, because historically, we haven't performed well when our defense was bad because no matter how good our offense was, it couldn't make up for piss-poor defense. SoKor and Lebanon in the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, Kazakhstan in the December 2018 window, Indonesia in the 2022 SEA Games, the entire 2022 FIBA Asia Cup are examples.

Now, as for the pool, yes, we need players who better fit in FIBA. Wing defenders (Navarro), shooters (Heading), interior defenders (Carino, maybe Balti), maybe some initiators. Frankly, I'll just hope they're added to an expanded pool, who will succeed to the 12 if there's injury or retirement.

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

It doesn't take a genius to know that injuries here & there as well as inavailability of players for whatever reason/s are normal. They happen all the time, hence it is vital to maintain enough No. of players in a pool/team. I think the ideal No. is 16 players. Para sa akin, hindi rin maganda yung subrang dami ng players like 22 or more.

Take for instance the situation of Gilas in the 1st window of the 2025 FIBA Asia Cup qualifiers last Feb., AJ Edu wasnt able to suit up becoz of injury. Then in the coming OQT, both Edu & Jamie Malonzo will not play becoz of injuries. I hope Iskati would be able to play.

Even weak teams such as Indonesia, Thailand or Hong Kong have their pool atleast 16 players, They know that not all players are fit playing basketball... Even Alas Pilipinas have larger pool of players after adding Galanza, Solomon and Belen..

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

RR Pogoy for Scottie?

https://tiebreakertimes.com.ph/tbt/roger-pogoy-joins-gilas-camp-at-inspire/305603

 

[IPC2]

RR Pogoy for Scottie?

https://tiebreakertimes.com.ph/tbt/roger-pogoy-joins-gilas-camp-at-inspire/305603

Why would we call back a 32-year-old who has had a history of being unreliable for Gilas?

His assets are shooting and shot creation. Thing is, he's shot 26.4% from 3 in FIBA (although he did shoot 33% last World Cup), and his defense is suspect.

 

[IPC2]

Pogoy is one example that sure he's playing good in PBA doesnt mean it warrants a Gilas call up and expect the same performance. We've seen countless times on pogoy. People don't learn on suggesting players.. and now people suggesting stockton?

I'm suggesting Mamu because his point-of-attack defense can translate. Stockton's a pretty good defender too.

Now people are suggesting Justin Arana despite the fact that he exclusively plays center, and he's 6'7" in shoes with a 6'9" wingspan.

I remember suggesting Arvin Tolentino because he's a 6'5" wing and getting told off by sir DenzelGreat8 because of that. Now, I find myself agreeing because Arvin's more of a volume shooter and a defensive liability, and defense is more important than scoring at the 3 if you won't be a star in FIBA. So I find myself wishing for Navarro, Lopez, Caelum, Konov, and Bayla at the wing instead because they're better defenders.

 

[IPC2]

Why not try Justin Gutang or Dalph Panopio? Do they really think that they can find our better players only in the PBA?

Don't expect CTC will pick players outside PBA aside from Kai, AJ, Tamaya and Ramos... He's not familiar players who are not playing in the PBA... Another one is the politics... So don't expect the likes of Baltazar, Heading, RJ, etc....

The thing is, the only current PBA players who have shown to be reliable for Gilas are June Mar (for a limited period, and he turns 35 in November), Newsome, JB, Navarro, Marcio (who's 37), Scottie (on defense), Japeth (sometimes, but he's 37) Castro (who's done), Terrence (who's currently injury-prone), and Abueva (who's 36). Maybe Oftana for rebounds and CJ in passing lanes.

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

Why would we call back a 32-year-old who has had a history of being unreliable for Gilas?

His assets are shooting and shot creation. Thing is, he's shot 26.4% from 3 in FIBA (although he did shoot 33% last World Cup), and his defense is suspect.

I remember before CTC loves to have Pogoy w/ his team... So this is one of the reasons...

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

And also don't expect CTC will pick ball dominant players such as Bolick, Kiefer, RJ, etc... He's not your coach that loves to have a player that wants to have the ball to be effective...

 

[IPC2]

What's wrong with suggesting Stockton as Gilas prospect? Yes I know there's no guarantee he will carryover his good PBA game to the FIBA level, but there's also no guarantee that he will suck in the FIBA game either. That is why he needs to be tested in the FIBA level. There's absolutely no way of telling until we see him play for Gilas.
Take the case of Calvin Abueva, prior to his stint with Gilas in 2015, who among us here at IBN had predicted that Abueva is going to do very well with Gilas in 2015? Maybe only a very few, or maybe none at all. But Abueva proved to be a workhorse for Gilas & was among the best players of Gilas in 2015.

Of course I'm aware that there are lots of PBA players who are/were impressive in the PBA but couldnt carryover such performsnces in the FIBA game. But we can never gauge a certain player's potential in the national team unless that player gets tested in actual FIBA game.

The thing is, a player who is among the PBA',s superstar or star will have a better chance at playing well in FIBA than an averaged PBA player.

Rather suggest players who you think will fit to fiba style. We saw how berto played well in fiba games.. they're lots of players better than stockton to suggest with..

Pogoy, Wright, and Troy were/are star-level players in thr PBA. Thing is, they underperformed in FIBA. So did Gary David. And they kinda had the skills. Pogoy and David could shoot, Troy was a good hustle guy at 6'6", Wright was a good shot creator and passer. Those should be cautionary tales.

At least Scottie and Newsome are good defenders and can initiate.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Pogoy, Wright, and Troy were/are star-level players in thr PBA. Thing is, they underperformed in FIBA. So did Gary David. And they kinda had the skills. Pogoy and David could shoot, Troy was a good hustle guy at 6'6", Wright was a good shot creator and passer. Those should be cautionary tales.

At least Scottie and Newsome are good defenders and can initiate.

I get your point bro but kaya nga Wright, Pogoy, Garry David all got Gilas call up becoz of their impressive performances in the PBA. But their respective mettles were tested in the FIBA or international game & unfortunately they weren't able to carryover their good PBA game to the FIBA level. The thing is, we had no way of knowing until we saw how they played for Gilss in the FIBA game.

As I've pointed out, prior to his stint with Gilas, not too many people expected Calvin Abueva to be effective as a Gilas player. Not too many people thought that Abueva can carryover his good PBA performance to the FIBA level. People point to his lack of outside shooting & him being undersized for the 3 position as his biggest downside. Yet Abueva proved that he was very much serviceable for the national team, at least in the Asian level.

My take is, those players that are playing exceptionally well in the PBA should get a Gilas call up. Then let their games with Gilas justify if they deserved to be retained in the Gilas team or not. In short, their mettle must be tested in the FIBA game.

We have no way of knowing how they perform in the FIBA level unless we try them.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I'm suggesting Mamu because his point-of-attack defense can translate. Stockton's a pretty good defender too.

Now people are suggesting Justin Arana despite the fact that he exclusively plays center, and he's 6'7" in shoes with a 6'9" wingspan.

I remember suggesting Arvin Tolentino because he's a 6'5" wing and getting told off by sir DenzelGreat8 because of that. Now, I find myself agreeing because Arvin's more of a volume shooter and a defensive liability, and defense is more important than scoring at the 3 if you won't be a star in FIBA. So I find myself wishing for Navarro, Lopez, Caelum, Konov, and Bayla at the wing instead because they're better defenders.

I actually have high regard on two-way players - an offensive threat & at the same time has pretty decent defensive skills.

As you've mentioned, while Arvin Tolentino is a solid offensive player, his defense is very much suspect hence guys like Dwight Ramos & Calvin Oftana would always have edge over him in the picking order of Gilas at the 3 spot.

Dondon Hontiveros was serviceable to the Phi national team becoz he was a two-way player. He can shoot & he also had pretty decent defensive skills. I think Dondon got more playing time from coach Chot Reyes in the 2007 RP team than a Renren Ritualo becoz while Renren was the more explosive 3-pt shooter, Renren was a liability on defense.

What I like about Stockton is that he's also a two-way player. His offense, especially his 3-pt shooting, has really improved in the recent PBA Philippine Cup.

 

[IPC2]

I actually have high regard on two-way players - an offensive threat & at the same time has pretty decent defensive skills.

As you've mentioned, while Arvin Tolentino is a solid offensive player, his defense is very much suspect hence guys like Dwight Ramos & Calvin Oftana would always have edge over him in the picking order of Gilas at the 3 spot.

Dondon Hontiveros was serviceable to the Phi national team becoz he was a two-way player. He can shoot & he also had pretty decent defensive skills. I think Dondon got more playing time from coach Chot Reyes in the 2007 RP team than a Renren Ritualo becoz while Renren was the more explosive 3-pt shooter, Renren was a liability on defense.

What I like about Stockton is that he's also a two-way player. His offense, especially his 3-pt shooting, has really improved in the recent PBA Philippine Cup.

As for Arvin, it's more of his position. I think at the 3 (and at 4 or 5), defense should be the primary consideration if you're not a star. Dwight's the only player we have right now who can defend the 3. Oftana regressed on defense with TNT (he's now getting blown by, can still be a decent system defender), and Malonzo's a bit up-and-down, and he's more of a help than man defender right now.

I think you need a couple defenders at the 3, and at least one available player at the 4/5 as a foundation for a strong defense. The rest can be system defenders, although having good point-of-attack defenders like Newsome and Scottie help as well.

 

[IPC2]

and iskati is around that height

have you watch SJ’s game in KBL? Theirs a reason he was sign for $195k with his playmaking and defending..

funny you suggest as future but you quickly mention about “proven”

again don’t get deceive on any pba players performance

and 1 thing, is stockton fiba eligible?

​

So we all base it on height which is just 3 inches difference. Stockton has never been a major contributor or reason his team wins games with tougher opponents. What will be our basis for him to be as good as Belangel

I actually think that SJ is a bigger LA Tenorio. He can facilitate and score, and he fights on defense. His 177cm (around 5'10") size is just an issue, but less so than LA being 5'8".

 

[IPC2]

This is just getting bad. Pogoy is not much of an initiator. Not a good defender and cannot shoot at the Fiba level. We are getting players who can neither defend nor score in Fiba.

As a fan Im hoping being served humble pie by Newsome and Banchero has made CJ consider the holes in his game as he says.

The only two way guys we have are Dwight and Newsome. And neither is a good outside shooter. We dont have another decent perimeter defender as CJ is worse than them and Scottie. Newsome will be outsized by the Euro wings and will be just a guard defender. Dwight will be outsized by euro wings. Oftanas perimeter defense will be exposed.

We dont have a tall wing defender. Our PF at 6’6 is a bit outsized and is our only decent “big” defender. Our prospects dont look good.

I would like to get Heading because he is a good shooter and fundamentally sound in other parts like defense and facilitating. But he is not a wing defender either. Navarro and possibly Malonzo are the only ones who are decent big wing defenders. The lack of big wings in the PBA is one reason. You need to develop tall wing defenders and I dont think there are other PBA players that fit the bill. You need to get from the UAAP and develop them.

In the current pool, only the following have translated well internationally:

Scottie: Defense, hustle
Newsome: Defense
Dwight: Defense, hustle, some shot creation
Malonzo: Shooting (36.4% from 3 in 11 FIBA games)
Carl: Shooting (44.4% from 3 in 16 FIBA games), some shot creation
Oftana: Rebounding
JB: Scoring, playmaking, rebounding, defense
AJ: Defense, rebounding
Kai: Rim finishing, rebounding, some rim protection
CJ: Passing lane defense
June Mar: Interior scoring, rebounding
Japeth: Spot minutes, rim protection

Oftana will need to shoot better, as he's 33.3% from 3 in 8 FIBA games. He'll need to refocus energy on defense as well, since Dwight's our only wing defender. Defense is key at the 3-spot.

Mason has played two FIBA games, but played in the SEA Games. He didn't shoot as well as in the February 2023 window, and he wasn't a good defender. Good news is that he turns 20 this year, so he has time to improve.

Quiambao has played 9 FIBA games, but I can't assess him that well yet. He scored well last window, but that was against Hong Kong and Taiwan. His passing was just apparent in the 2021 FIBA Asia Cup. He needs to improve his defense.

 

[Metta2]

It's on the coaches to determine who among the players will translate well internationally. It takes a special eye and complete understanding of levels.

How is CTC when it comes to scouting/evaluating talent? I understand he was our head scout during Fiba World Cup and watched Angola games before we faced them.