Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[System2]

Small centers who either aren't a consistent threat in the perimeter or not threats in the PnR. Honestly, the PBA really needs to add full-time imports.

Agreed. And they should really go away with the height limits. The evidence of it being a detriment to the development of players is already right in their face. What is the reason why they still even have that rule anyway? Is it really to protect the image of the capabilities of locals?

 

[DAdmiral2]

No one is saying there should be no pro or college league in the country, but it's the structure and system with basketball landscape in the Philippines that is the problem.
With our level of players do you think it is wise to have the same collegiate and pro NBA structure as the US , c'mon of course NOT. We are the only ones with this system outside of the US .
remember Japans high school and college basketball structure of leaques are no where like the PHILIPPINES, for that matter no other country aside from US is.
this is where paradigm culture of doing things needs to change and have open mind , the problem is we are US centric or insular in thought and do not know any other way , but business and life as usual

 

[C2Hamm2]

​"mag 4 years plang. based on the topic, im thinking as if im FIBA and im not Filipino."

- that's why asking FIBA for an exemption NOW will be kinda st*p*d on the part of SBP. as you said, give them a compelling reason but how? let him exhaust all his eligibility in DLSU to further develop his game. studying and residing here will surely give him lots of pogi points in the eyes of FIBA.

" if consistently thats how to get a player who failed to get a passport prior to 16th year bday, that will make the passport rule next to useless."

- ofcourse, FIBA will consider the age of the player when he first arrived in the country to reside and when did he get his passport. these are two reckoning points - remember Chris Newsome first arrived here at age 21 while Greg Slaughter at age 19.

im questioning the idea of planning with the assumption that we can exemption for certain players. if we don't get an exemption, at all, then that messes up whatever plan is in place. where as, if our main planned pool are all eligible.. then no (eligibility) problem. bonus if someone gets an exemption.

"having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority."

- recruiting foreign-based players age 16-19. most of them are still raw. they have the potential but still raw. look at Ange Kouame - he first arrived here at age 18 and he was raw way back 2018 Jones Cup but the potential is already there. Ateneo did develop his game since then.

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

"i think ahead of time."

- it depends on your definition of "ahead of time". we may have differing views on that.

not a problem. im happy to read and sometime discuss with other peoples point of view. I have no plans on making other people change their mind or views but happy to change mine if needed.

 

[paulrenzo2]

hopefully one of the Asian leagues snatch Kouame as their world import for the sake of his development.

I've been reading reports that he might play in Europe

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

To be fair, it is still hard to find a decently-sized center with potential in the PH. Our tall guys (Tamayo, Baltazar, etc) are international PF's at most.

After Junemar and Kai, we haven't had any more upcoming 6'9" and above local bigs

 

[Metta2]

- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?

Yes, our local development is lacking. The shortage of local bigs dilutes overall development. Currently, only the UAAP is addressing that problem. It's the reason why the recent pba draft was dominated by filfors and why the locals being taken by foreign leagues are mostly UAAP and also filfors.

 

[zairex2]

Yes, our local development is lacking. The shortage of local bigs dilutes overall development. Currently, only the UAAP is addressing that problem. It's the reason why the recent pba draft was dominated by filfors and why the locals being taken by foreign leagues are mostly UAAP and also filfors.

Similar case about Japan also. They don't have good centers in B.League and same height in u16. Its really genetics that is limiting us. With small pool of bigs, their training her is also limited. Moving them to other countries to further their development. Of course their are exemption, like how much more effective JF than Kai at the same age.

 

[ja.he2]

im questioning the idea of planning with the assumption that we can exemption for certain players. if we don't get an exemption, at all, then that messes up whatever plan is in place. where as, if our main planned pool are all eligible.. then no (eligibility) problem. bonus if someone gets an exemption.

"having this mindset makes developing local players not a priority."



- why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?


not a problem. im happy to read and sometime discuss with other peoples point of view. I have no plans on making other people change their mind or views but happy to change mine if needed.

"im questioning the idea of planning with the assumption that we can exemption for certain players. if we don't get an exemption, at all, then that messes up whatever plan is in place. where as, if our main planned pool are all eligible.. then no (eligibility) problem. bonus if someone gets an exemption."

- that is a 50/50. if FIBA will not grant the exemption, it will be alright. we can move on from that. what's important is we tried and we tried it to the players with the best case possible. if granted, the better.

"why are we "heavily" recruiting foreign based players to be part of Gilas? can we not form a competitive team without chasing foreign based players? if we cant, can SBP do something to raise the bar of the local players? or we just dont believe SBP can do any local development so we look elsewhere?"

- we are not setting aside the homegrowns and their development. recruiting and developing foreign-based will just expand the option of SBP to strengthen. it is actually part of the program. it is not only confined with the Philippines but many countries as well.

 

[ja.he2]

Yes, our local development is lacking. The shortage of local bigs dilutes overall development. Currently, only the UAAP is addressing that problem. It's the reason why the recent pba draft was dominated by filfors and why the locals being taken by foreign leagues are mostly UAAP and also filfors.

it's always imputable to the stakeholders, coaches, trainors and to the players themselves. they are developing players that are only suitable for local competitions.

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[Rds2]

I am also hesitant in putting our hopes on exemptions. I might be wrong but exemptions by their nature have no fast rules. What might have been decided favorably for person A might not necessarily be for person B. Of course we can only go by precedent to estimate who or when someone will be exempted. And there my friends I dont think we can be optimistic. IRC we have two exemption cases in Slaughter and Newsome. Both were exempted when they were 30 right? Greg has been a resident since he was 17 right? So I don't think we can reasonably expect any of our guys to be exempted in their early to mid 20s. Schonny and Malonzo I think are not exemption cases but only had to show documentation they had a passport before 16.

I think we need to condition ourselves that bigs like Philipps or Rosser will not be exempted any time soon. We have to work on the assumption that the eligible bigs we have now are the only ones we'll have for a few years to come.

 

[IPC2]

I am also hesitant in putting our hopes on exemptions. I might be wrong but exemptions by their nature have no fast rules. What might have been decided favorably for person A might not necessarily be for person B. Of course we can only go by precedent to estimate who or when someone will be exempted. And there my friends I dont think we can be optimistic. IRC we have two exemption cases in Slaughter and Newsome. Both were exempted when they were 30 right? Greg has been a resident since he was 17 right? So I don't think we can reasonably expect any of our guys to be exempted in their early to mid 20s. Schonny and Malonzo I think are not exemption cases but only had to show documentation they had a passport before 16.

I think we need to condition ourselves that bigs like Philipps or Rosser will not be exempted any time soon. We have to work on the assumption that the eligible bigs we have now are the only ones we'll have for a few years to come.

Work on guys like Demisana, Gagate, and Pablo for the time being.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Here is the thing , it's always prudent to get a fil foreigner a passport as early as possible regardless of age , obviously the priority is before 16. But it's still better to get a passport as a teenager (even after 16 ) than not. (At .least there is a chance of exception).

Now for those over 19, it is still a good idea , cause someone like Standhardinger widens our pool of NP.

it's also true for naturalization, of course a teenager or U16 player is better to be confirmed earlier than later , as that player can potentially play as a local

It's all about widening the net , the bigger coverage the better

 

[IPC2]

yes, i will not argue that. BUT, if he remains managing the PBA teams, conflict will still be there. there is no way he'll NOT think of the PBA whenever he is planning for Gilas. but we know, he shouldnt. cant serve 2 masters. ill be happy if RSA makes him focus on the NT. theres the youth team and womens team included there. im pretty sure Chua will have his hands full and will be able to use whats he is good at there. might even unlock new skills in building new bridges in the international community which would be nice for SBP.

Problem with the PBA players, though, is the age of most of the useful not-retired players for future tournaments.

1985 (38): Ross (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad)
1987 (36): Japeth, Marcio
1988 (35): Abueva, Brownlee (NP)
1989 (34): Tautuaa (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad), June Mar (November)
1990 (33): Newsome
1991 (32): Ahanmisi, Alas (November)
1992 (31): Terrence, Pogoy, Perkins (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad)
1993 (30): Scottie, Perez (November)
1995 (28): Arvin (November)
1996 (27): Oftana, Malonzo, Black (December)
1997 (26): Navarro, Tuffin
1998 (25): Tio​
1999 (24): Mamuyac

We need to be selective as to which players born 1993 and earlier to select. Many useful PBA players are within that range. Pick too many, and we need to build from scratch again and again, like what happened after the likes of Castro, Gabe, Ping, and RDO were gone. Also, need to assess how good they are as opposed to how good non-PBA players are.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Here is the thing , it's always prudent to get a fil foreigner a passport as early as possible regardless of age , obviously the priority is before 16. But it's still better to get a passport as a teenager (even after 16 ) than not. (At .least there is a chance of exception).

Now for those over 19, it is still a good idea , cause someone like Standhardinger widens our pool of NP.

it's also true for naturalization, of course a teenager or U16 player is better to be confirmed earlier than later , as that player can potentially play as a local

It's all about widening the net , the bigger coverage the better

Very much agree with U.
That's why doon talaga dapat mag invest ang SBP. It has to search for potential below 16 yrs old talents in the US & other countries that can be issued Phi passport prior to the kid's 16 year old birthday.

We can never tell, malay mo maka tsamba tayo ng mga tipong DJ Fenner or a Cedrick Barefield or a Ron Harper, Jr. Or a Remy Martin or a Mikey Williams. All of those players can easily make a significant impact if they play in Asian basketball.

 

[Sikatrix2]

I believe that he is covered by the Citizenship Retention and Reacquisition Act. When his parents reacquired Filipino citizenship, he was also included to that coverage. Therefore, no need for him to go to the court. He does not even need to undergo to the naturalization process.

Not a lawyer but isnt it RA 9139 since he had to go through the solicitor general?

https://lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra2001/ra_9139_2001.html

 

[DAdmiral2]

Very much agree with U.
That's why doon talaga dapat mag invest ang SBP. It has to search for potential below 16 yrs old talents in the US & other countries that can be issued Phi passport prior to the kid's 16 year old birthday.

We can never tell, malay mo maka tsamba tayo ng mga tipong DJ Fenner or a Cedrick Barefield or a Ron Harper, Jr. Or a Remy Martin or a Mikey Williams. All of those players can easily make a significant impact if they play in Asian basketball.

Now on the argument, these fil foreigners lack interest or unwilling to work with their passport, well here is the thing, Would Clarkson and Blatche be willing to play for Philippines if not for the $millions we pay them? Nope.
so if we are willing to pay them millions , why can't we pay a few thousands to process these kids passport. I guarantee you no fil foreigner wil refuse his passport to be processed for free. The hypocrisy is actually on the SBP.. NOt these kids .

 

[FilWelsh2]

It will be easy sailing for Gilas against the Thais today but it will be a see-saw against Jordan on Saturday. A dogfight, a pitch battle that an outcome could be decided on how tenacious the winner can be. It could be like Gilas-Dominicana type of match…

Starting unit of Jordan :

SF - RHJ 6”7” (no further intro)

PF/C - Ahmad Al-Dwairi (aka Ahmet Deverioglu) 6”11” Turkish-Jordanian who won Euroleague championship with Fenerbahce in 2017.

PF/C - John Bohannon 6”11” NP played with G-League, NZ-NBL and Kaohsiung where he team-up with J.Brickman. He is a product of NCAA Div I UTEP.

SG - Sami Bzai 6”3” American-Jordanian from US NCAA Div2 SE Oklahoma State

PG - Fadi Mustafa (aka Freddie Ibrahim) 6”3” Canadian- Jordanian from US NCAA Div2 Tampa

take notice all of Jordan’s starters honed their basketball abroad. No home grown. The reality of internationalisation of basketball. Without borders it should be like that. Maybe unfair to many but our world is changing…​

 

[ja.he2]

Not a lawyer but isnt it RA 9139 since he had to go through the solicitor general?

https://lawphil.net/statutes/repacts/ra2001/ra_9139_2001.html

Looks like you are right here if Tyler Tio's parents did not reacquire their Filipino citizenship. There is nothing that Tyler can acquire to begin with if his parents did not reacquire their citizenship.
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If he took an oath of allegiance, which is apparent in the article, the presumption is he acquired his citizenship through naturalization.
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[CoJ2]

Problem with the PBA players, though, is the age of most of the useful not-retired players for future tournaments.

1985 (38): Ross (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad)
1987 (36): Japeth, Marcio
1988 (35): Abueva, Brownlee (NP)
1989 (34): Tautuaa (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad), June Mar (November)
1990 (33): Newsome
1991 (32): Ahanmisi, Alas (November)
1992 (31): Terrence, Pogoy, Perkins (NP for FIBA, local for Asiad)
1993 (30): Scottie, Perez (November)
1995 (28): Arvin (November)
1996 (27): Oftana, Malonzo, Black (December)
1997 (26): Navarro, Tuffin
1998 (25): Tio​
1999 (24): Mamuyac

We need to be selective as to which players born 1993 and earlier to select. Many useful PBA players are within that range. Pick too many, and we need to build from scratch again and again, like what happened after the likes of Castro, Gabe, Ping, and RDO were gone. Also, need to assess how good they are as opposed to how good non-PBA players are.

1993 is already old and players are already on the declince, ideally, the core of Gilas for the 2027 qualifying cycle should be composed of players born from 1997 onwards with only two-3 players born prior 1995 (who would serve as team captain)

sidenote: Abueva's age is somehow a mystery, especially that his brith certificate got lost from a flood hehehehe (rumor has it that he is 3-5 yrs older)

 

[Metta2]

Very much agree with U.
That's why doon talaga dapat mag invest ang SBP. It has to search for potential below 16 yrs old talents in the US & other countries that can be issued Phi passport prior to the kid's 16 year old birthday.

We can never tell, malay mo maka tsamba tayo ng mga tipong DJ Fenner or a Cedrick Barefield or a Ron Harper, Jr. Or a Remy Martin or a Mikey Williams. All of those players can easily make a significant impact if they play in Asian basketball.

I personally know the Hinton family (the young brothers playing for Taiwan). Those brothers, especially the younger one Robert, were on a similar track as Vyctorious Miller. They were in fact playing for the same club and same age group. Miller was just taller earlier and the Hinton brothers were also very serious about academics, so Miller sort of really took off in terms of basketball.

During those early teen years, you would not think that they would eventually play for Taiwan because they seem to be of a higher level. But kudos to Taiwan for being able to get them. I have a feeling that the fact that they were included in the men's team so early was a big factor on why they accepted. That and that they can play together, those brothers always have to be together.

So with these top talents, I think building relationships and knowing what families want can go a long way. "Malay mo maka tsamba" is very true.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

As I always saying there’s a provision on the revised FIBA by-laws on young players who already played in sanctioned tourney but had an option to change allegiance if both National Federation, and the parent(s) agreed on such term.
It’s on or before her/his 18[SUP]th[/SUP] birthday but nor after his/her 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] birthday.

That is why the likes of 16 yr. old JJ Mandaquit and 17 yr. old Dylan Harper both played in the FIBA Americup U16 and FIBA U19 tournament respectively has a fighting chance to be exempted.