Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Juan Lun2]

geez chot already resigned and you're still hating on him?

haters really have a lot of time on their hands, is that the "tambay" at play here?

Germany had it all. A leader, youth, experience, cohesion, defense, big men, shooting, teamwork and Puso. Complete package.

They deserve to win this World Cup.

I can only hope SBP and PBA picked up something from Germany's success story. Shortcuts will not win you games. Neither is copying the NBA when you are a freaking Asian with Asian genes.​

it's hard not to criticize chot if the dude thinks (despite the dismal showing) we are actually not far in terms of development - he still has the gall to say these

know some peope are saying, ang layo pa ng Pilipinas pero I beg to disagree, ang lalakas na nga ng mga to(spain, france, etc) - these other teams they are getting better and stronger and we're right there.

take a look at the standings, the improvement over the years, we're right there, sumasabay ang pilipinas, di tayo naiiwan, we're right there

what if we had Clarkson and Kai for 1 month.

what if the referee didn't make those terrible calls that led to his (clarkson) fouling out, what if we had clarkson endgame against dr​​

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

it's hard not to criticize chot if the dude thinks (despite the dismal showing) we are actually not far in terms of development - he still has the gall to say these

know some peope are saying, ang layo pa ng Pilipinas pero I beg to disagree, ang lalakas na nga ng mga to(spain, france, etc) - these other teams they are getting better and stronger and we're right there.

take a look at the standings, the improvement over the years, we're right there, sumasabay ang pilipinas, di tayo naiiwan, we're right there

what if we had Clarkson and Kai for 1 month.

what if the referee didn't make those terrible calls that led to his (clarkson) fouling out, what if we had clarkson endgame against dr​​

yeah but among the teams we faced, only 1 made it to QF. they were lower quality teams in the tournament. none of our tuneups were against legit contenders.

the run we made against Italy to cut down the lead to single digits, was technically already garbage time.

in times when we need the team to close out games, or break the deadlock in our favor, we didn't rise to the occasion. I think that's what separates greatness from mediocrity.

Yep, we're right there, but we still let superior teams assert their edge over us during tight games.

People say we just need chemistry and preparation... more than that our players need to switch their mentality, it seems like most of them have inferiority complex when facing Western teams. It takes years to develop that no fear, killer mindset.... and it's mainly because none of them are used to playing fundamentally sound Europeans, athletic Africans and uber-talented Americans.

Our grassroots, amateur leagues and the PBA needs to take it up a notch otherwise just have the courtesy to let our promising players spread their wings elsewhere if we want international success.

 

[ARMIR2]

yeah but among the teams we faced, only 1 made it to QF. they were lower quality teams in the tournament. none of our tuneups were against legit contenders.

the run we made against Italy to cut down the lead to single digits, was technically already garbage time.

in times when we need the team to close out games, or break the deadlock in our favor, we didn't rise to the occasion. I think that's what separates greatness from mediocrity.

Yep, we're right there, but we still let superior teams assert their edge over us during tight games.

People say we just need chemistry and preparation... more than that our players need to switch their mentality, it seems like most of them have inferiority complex when facing Western teams. It takes years to develop that no fear, killer mindset.... and it's mainly because none of them are used to playing fundamentally sound Europeans, athletic Africans and uber-talented Americans.

Our grassroots, amateur leagues and the PBA needs to take it up a notch otherwise just have the courtesy to let our promising players spread their wings elsewhere if we want international success.

The overseas kids did alright,they give what they can take,alot of fans were disappointed with the superstar locals with the exemptiono of Junmar,specially Scottie the Ginebra fans thought he can do all kinds of things like he does in the PBA,but we already saw some cracks in QT,specially that tuneup game against Mexico,let's see if he can redeem himself in the Asian Games level.

 

[bluenote492]

It would be great if our 6'2-6'3 players modeled their games after Schroder's. Imagine Abando with TR dribbling skills.

 

[Dotch2]

Germany had it all. A leader, youth, experience, cohesion, defense, big men, shooting, teamwork and Puso. Complete package.

They deserve to win this World Cup.

I can only hope SBP and PBA picked up something from Germany's success story. Shortcuts will not win you games. Neither is copying the NBA when you are a freaking Asian with Asian genes.​

FIBA Schroder > NBA Schroder.

Magic Johnson even dubbed him Not a Real Laker. Sheesh.

Helps also when you got the dynamic Wagner Bros, who are relatively fast for their size, and starters Voigtmann, Theis, and Obst who stick to their roles and specialties. Bonga too, a unique player who stands 6'8 and plays PG in offense but is tall and strong enough to be an interior defender and weak side help and rebounder.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

The overseas kids did alright,they give what they can take,alot of fans were disappointed with the superstar locals with the exemptiono of Junmar,specially Scottie the Ginebra fans thought he can do all kinds of things like he does in the PBA,but we already saw some cracks in QT,specially that tuneup game against Mexico,let's see if he can redeem himself in the Asian Games level.

junemar did ok.

other 5 PBA players in the lineup were just merely spectators. they have the skill to compete but not the confidence that says "i've been to this level multiple times before" unlike the Bleague, kbl and NBA boys.

PBA could send its best players in SEA and Asian level... could get the job done with preparation and a good coach (couple silvers in asia. lots of gold in sea games), but they should come to their senses that their players just won't cut it in the World level (except maybe really exceptional players like Mikey Williams, Justin Brownlee)

Australia regularly sends NBL players in FIBA Asia, won a chip there, but sent a squad full of NBA, Euroleague, and Bleague players WITHOUT a single NBL player to the World Cup, still failed to reach QF. Put that into perspective. There's no pressure at all on Basketball Australia from the NBL to make sure the domestic league is represented. Whereas SBP, despite knowing PBA players are detrimental to the development of a World-class Gilas team, still insist on including subpar players such as Pogoy and Japeth just to make sure PBA is represented.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

FIBA Schroder > NBA Schroder.

Magic Johnson even dubbed him Not a Real Laker. Sheesh.

Helps also when you got the dynamic Wagner Bros, who are relatively fast for their size, and starters Voigtmann, Theis, and Obst who stick to their roles and specialties. Bonga too, a unique player who stands 6'8 and plays PG in offense but is tall and strong enough to be an interior defender and weak side help and rebounder.

It's interesting how most of their sets are very NBA-like than European. That last dagger play by Schroder has NBA written all-over it. Iso at the top, cross jab cross lay with the strong hand. Talent wise, no one was really cut above the rest between teams... it's just that Germany played freely and with more oomph, Serbia came out a bit stiff.

 

[IPC2]

Germany had it all. A leader, youth, experience, cohesion, defense, big men, shooting, teamwork and Puso. Complete package.

They deserve to win this World Cup.

I can only hope SBP and PBA picked up something from Germany's success story. Shortcuts will not win you games. Neither is copying the NBA when you are a freaking Asian with Asian genes.​

FIBA Schroder > NBA Schroder.
Magic Johnson even dubbed him Not a Real Laker. Sheesh.

Helps also when you got the dynamic Wagner Bros, who are relatively fast for their size, and starters Voigtmann, Theis, and Obst who stick to their roles and specialties. Bonga too, a unique player who stands 6'8 and plays PG in offense but is tall and strong enough to be an interior defender and weak side help and rebounder.

It's interesting how most of their sets are very NBA-like than European. That last dagger play by Schroder has NBA written all-over it. Iso at the top, cross jab cross lay with the strong hand. Talent wise, no one was really cut above the rest between teams... it's just that Germany played freely and with more oomph, Serbia came out a bit stiff.

Hopefully, we can construct a similar roster to Germany (versatility, switchability, interior presence), and play at least similar to them. Move the ball, even if just to the open man. Plus, the defensive positioning was excellent.

We should have a similar program.

Edit: Just found out that Voigtmann and Mo Wagner are measured at 6'11".

 

[CoJ2]

Hopefully, we can construct a similar roster to Germany (versatility, switchability, interior presence), and play at least similar to them. Move the ball, even if just to the open man. Plus, the defensive positioning was excellent.

We should have a similar program.

Edit: Just found out that Voigtmann and Mo Wagner are measured at 6'11".

we can but we won’t until our stakeholders move on from the 90s style 2 week preparation and token pba representation

 

[C2Hamm2]

It's interesting how most of their sets are very NBA-like than European. That last dagger play by Schroder has NBA written all-over it. Iso at the top, cross jab cross lay with the strong hand. Talent wise, no one was really cut above the rest between teams... it's just that Germany played freely and with more oomph, Serbia came out a bit stiff.

iso ball will never be gone specially if you have really gifted players who excels at it. however, in FIBA games, it is a must to have above average ball rotation and above average 3pt shooting if you are seriously trying to be competitive. and when I say above average, thats compared to other nations and not just Asian level. if you can create space for your NBA player or any player who has good handle, of course you should exploit it.

Gilas proved this. most of the games we just gave the ball to JC, but since we have poor ball movement and no consistent 3pt shooter, driving lanes was always closed and giving the ball to JC was already a hard task.pretty sure if we have better shooters and atleast 2 other players who can penetrate the lane, JC would have shown a much much better performance, better than what he showed which was pretty good already in itself.

 

[Rds2]

iso ball will never be gone specially if you have really gifted players who excels at it. however, in FIBA games, it is a must to have above average ball rotation and above average 3pt shooting if you are seriously trying to be competitive. and when I say above average, thats compared to other nations and not just Asian level. if you can create space for your NBA player or any player who has good handle, of course you should exploit it.

Gilas proved this. most of the games we just gave the ball to JC, but since we have poor ball movement and no consistent 3pt shooter, driving lanes was always closed and giving the ball to JC was already a hard task.pretty sure if we have better shooters and atleast 2 other players who can penetrate the lane, JC would have shown a much much better performance, better than what he showed which was pretty good already in itself.

From what I saw. Schroeder has the ball and then asks for picks to get the best match up. But his teammates dont always stand around. There are cuts and movement. Schroeder doesnt always score or drive. His main purpose is to get the attention of the defense. If they dont send a double and he has a favorable matchup he tries to score.

 

[Rds2]

iso ball will never be gone specially if you have really gifted players who excels at it. however, in FIBA games, it is a must to have above average ball rotation and above average 3pt shooting if you are seriously trying to be competitive. and when I say above average, thats compared to other nations and not just Asian level. if you can create space for your NBA player or any player who has good handle, of course you should exploit it.

Gilas proved this. most of the games we just gave the ball to JC, but since we have poor ball movement and no consistent 3pt shooter, driving lanes was always closed and giving the ball to JC was already a hard task.pretty sure if we have better shooters and atleast 2 other players who can penetrate the lane, JC would have shown a much much better performance, better than what he showed which was pretty good already in itself.

JC was an inefficient outside shooter most of the games because he was doing too much. When we moved him off the ball against China that made the game easier for him. He didnt have to create something from scratch. The problem was this team was designed for JC to be the primary ball handler. They didnt pick the one guy we had who had a decent record as primary ball handler at this level.

 

[Silent Killer2]

It would be great if our 6'2-6'3 players modeled their games after Schroder's. Imagine Abando with TR dribbling skills.

the closest schroder height we have is ricci rivero.. but he doesn’t play PG..

 

[TheRodster212]

the closest schroder height we have is ricci rivero.. but he doesn’t play PG..

Andy Gemao

 

[C2Hamm2]

we can but we won’t until our stakeholders move on from the 90s style 2 week preparation and token pba representation

long hair will have a bit of a shock once the asia cup qualifiers start. not even gonna include OQT as they might not take that one seriously. one of the things most of the posters here has raised since the beginning of time is that the schedule of PBA is really affecting the prep time. lets face it, LH would have to build a team that has some sort of cohesion every qualifying games and I really dont know how he can sustain getting PBA owners to stop the games to lend players everytime. unless they change the sched, he will be forced to use non-PBA players. the overseas players would be the next batch but this will not be sustainable because there arent that many plus the reality of someone might be hurt or needs to rest will happen. he needs to build a functioning roster and not just sending 12 random players.
whoever thought of not lending PBA players to CTB forced him to use collegiate players, some of which are now playing outside the country. this created a pipeline of players who will be available to augment whoever local players we need to send so we dont rely for a whole team from the PBA each time. this was obvious last WC. we have 6 nonPBA players (including JC) "helping" the PBA players. I think, LH needs to expand the overseas players pool unless he can get the other teams to agree with a sched change for the next 4-5 years

 

[Rds2]

the closest schroder height we have is ricci rivero.. but he doesn’t play PG..

In the team CJ is the closest. In 2019 you knew he was quick enough to get in the paint against anyone. But even then we saw he was short for SF. Developing him into a combo guard should have been the priority for 2023. Tab tried to get him. Chot didnt like him in the SEA games 2 years ago and got Pogoy instead. To Chots minds he didnt need a shot creator because he had JC. That backfired horribly. Even againsr China we were lucky their defenders were not that good such that Dwight could play PG. That wouldnt have been possible for the other 4 opponents.

 

[C2Hamm2]

From what I saw. Schroeder has the ball and then asks for picks to get the best match up. But his teammates dont always stand around. There are cuts and movement. Schroeder doesnt always score or drive. His main purpose is to get the attention of the defense. If they dont send a double and he has a favorable matchup he tries to score.

isnt that exactly what jason castro did before? and he was so effective because every time defense collapse on him, they have to think about 1) Blatche 2) other players who can also drive an penetrate like LA, Gabe, Jimmy, and Romeo and 3) shooters like LA, Gabe, Jimmy, Romeo, Lee, Chan, David, and even RDO.

 

[C2Hamm2]

JC was an inefficient outside shooter most of the games because he was doing too much. When we moved him off the ball against China that made the game easier for him. He didnt have to create something from scratch. The problem was this team was designed for JC to be the primary ball handler. They didnt pick the one guy we had who had a decent record as primary ball handler at this level.

yes, i agree. this was raised here as well before the WC. JC isnt a natural playmaker or primary ballhandler.he can do both pretty well but isnt used to do both on top of putting the ball in the bucket for long period of time.

 

[TheRodster212]

isnt that exactly what jason castro did before? and he was so effective because every time defense collapse on him, they have to think about 1) Blatche 2) other players who can also drive an penetrate like LA, Gabe, Jimmy, and Romeo and 3) shooters like LA, Gabe, Jimmy, Romeo, Lee, Chan, David, and even RDO.

This team had a pg who was decent but can’t shoot so he was easy for defenses to shut down, a slasher who turns the ball over when he has the ball in his hands, an nba level shot creator who was easy to shut down because he had zero help and a wing who isn’t really a pg. I almost forgot about the utility guy who’s a jack of all trades but master of none. I know coach Chot blamed prep time but they had decent prep relative to other tournaments.

 

[C2Hamm2]

This team had a pg who was decent but can’t shoot so he was easy for defenses to shut down, a slasher who turns the ball over when he has the ball in his hands, an nba level shot creator who was easy to shut down because he had zero help and a wing who isn’t really a pg. I almost forgot about the utility guy who’s a jack of all trades but master of none. I know coach Chot blamed prep time but they had decent prep relative to other tournaments.

we had same prep time as other nations. if we didnt use it properly and did not have any way to mitigate risk months\years prior, thats on our team. like what I did 2021 days after CCR replaced CTB, I wrote off the SEA games because the new coach did not have enough time to build his team or set any direction. im doing the same for CTC for parity. whatever the outcome, i wont say anything nega in terms of prep or team composition. even the plays. kapag talo, edi talo, if we win, then happy days. but outside of that, i wont. expecting too much is unrealistic. but after the Asian games, i hope the new management would gradual show show some long term goals. obviously thats not gonna materialise soon. kahit using rookies - junior pba players on some future games to be the eventual core of the senior team would be nice. not my cup of tea but thats still good planning if they start from 2024 onwards to 2027.