Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[sroth38392]

inferior local talent among the club teams? and in the case of smb and ros coaches who don't know their x's and o's?

do you really think a gilas lineup will get creamed in the easl or jones cup?

but anyway, so the consensus here is that to win we need a foreign coach? as simple as that?

You need the most qualified coach who knows the modern game to win. Fin

How many local coaches have the FIBA experience and actually play a modern 5-out motion offense? None. Chot is the closest but he opted to go ISO basketball in the WC.

People here don’t have a beef with pinoy coaches. They have a problem with their outdated tactics that overly rely on ISO ball.

Just look how we easily got manhandled by Italy and SSD once JC got shut down.

I don’t care who is the coach, local or foreign. I care if he is qualified to do the job.

Chot was obviously not the most qualified for the WC.

 

[paulrenzo2]

People here don’t have a beef with pinoy coaches. They have a problem with their outdated tactics that overly rely on ISO ball.​

This. Otherwise, we wouldn't be optimistic with the likes of Coaches Gold, Charles, or Aldin.

 

[Kaireem2]

You need the most qualified coach who knows the modern game to win. Fin

How many local coaches have the FIBA experience and actually play a modern 5-out motion offense? None. Chot is the closest but he opted to go ISO basketball in the WC.

People here don’t have a beef with pinoy coaches. They have a problem with their outdated tactics that overly rely on ISO ball.

Just look how we easily got manhandled by Italy and SSD once JC got shut down.

I don’t care who is the coach, local or foreign. I care if he is qualified to do the job.

Chot was obviously not the most qualified for the WC.

why do we ignore the grey elephant? can no one really see it?

recent gilas success has been built on utilizing top tier nba naturalized players like blatche and clarkson

whether it be iso or the misunderstood euro style (we don't have the personnel to do that) or even the so called "korean style" (which we don't have enough shooters to execute) bottom line is local and filfor talent really just sucks compared to the competition, hence we are forced to be overeliant on imports - i mean naturalized players who are paid handsomely to bring us a win.

not only is there no shame in that but its something that needs no overanalyzing to death.

team oriented blah blah blah yet scottie thomposn can't even properly bring the balldown vs 5'6 dundao of angola

i have to say this - "pang pinoy lang" that's how to best describe our basketball skills

so imho opinion the problem is not really an overeliance on iso ball, its just that we only have the naturalized player who can go iso, but imagine if we had two such players then it won't be easy for defenses now right? now imagine if we had three? or four? or perhaps all our top 6 players have the ability to breakdown their defender one on one.

seriously if you had a mj, kobe and melo on the team don't tell me you won't maximize their iso capabilities? we just don't have the local and filfor talent for it .... the same way that we don't have the size, personnel and skill to play euroball.

hihihihi i'd rather utilize aldin ayo's mayhem defense to generate turnovers and feed a transition offense, with our skill set the only high percentage shot for us is a wide open all alone layup.

 

[sroth38392]

why do we ignore the grey elephant? can no one really see it?

recent gilas success has been built on utilizing top tier nba naturalized players like blatche and clarkson

whether it be iso or the misunderstood euro style (we don't have the personnel to do that) or even the so called "korean style" (which we don't have enough shooters to execute) bottom line is local and filfor talent really just sucks compared to the competition, hence we are forced to be overeliant on imports - i mean naturalized players who are paid handsomely to bring us a win.

not only is there no shame in that but its something that needs no overanalyzing to death.

team oriented blah blah blah yet scottie thomposn can't even properly bring the balldown vs 5'6 dundao of angola

i have to say this - "pang pinoy lang" that's how to best describe our basketball skills

so imho opinion the problem is not really an overeliance on iso ball, its just that we only have the naturalized player who can go iso, but imagine if we had two such players then it won't be easy for defenses now right? now imagine if we had three? or four? or perhaps all our top 6 players have the ability to breakdown their defender one on one.

seriously if you had a mj, kobe and melo on the team don't tell me you won't maximize their iso capabilities? we just don't have the local and filfor talent for it .... the same way that we don't have the size, personnel and skill to play euroball.

hihihihi i'd rather utilize aldin ayo's mayhem defense to generate turnovers and feed a transition offense, with our skill set the only high percentage shot for us is a wide open all alone layup.

So you’re solution is to just have more naturalized players? Right.

Don’t even give me that suggestion we can train local ballers to play like Naturalized because that’s simply not possible. NBA talent is built around individuals who won the genetic lottery. It’s like saying we can have 6 Wembanyamas by having training every 7’4 player in the country. Our 7’3 Kai Sotto can’t even make the 2nd Rd Draft Pick.

You’re a defeatist. We definitely have the size and skill to play team basketball with a 5-out motion offense. The problem is local coaches don’t want to because it’s a lot of work. Pinipilit ang last minute preps and forcing a team to play through talent. That’s not going to work and it’s been proven over and over again.

You sound like a typical tambay who doesn’t want to solve the problem and end the day with a “bahala na” attitude. Nandyan ang problema. Find a real solution.

Like I said, I don’t care if the coach is local or foreign. The right system has to be in place and the current one is anything but.

 

[r1ck2]

why do we ignore the grey elephant? can no one really see it?

recent gilas success has been built on utilizing top tier nba naturalized players like blatche and clarkson

whether it be iso or the misunderstood euro style (we don't have the personnel to do that) or even the so called "korean style" (which we don't have enough shooters to execute) bottom line is local and filfor talent really just sucks compared to the competition, hence we are forced to be overeliant on imports - i mean naturalized players who are paid handsomely to bring us a win.

not only is there no shame in that but its something that needs no overanalyzing to death.

team oriented blah blah blah yet scottie thomposn can't even properly bring the balldown vs 5'6 dundao of angola

i have to say this - "pang pinoy lang" that's how to best describe our basketball skills

so imho opinion the problem is not really an overeliance on iso ball, its just that we only have the naturalized player who can go iso, but imagine if we had two such players then it won't be easy for defenses now right? now imagine if we had three? or four? or perhaps all our top 6 players have the ability to breakdown their defender one on one.

seriously if you had a mj, kobe and melo on the team don't tell me you won't maximize their iso capabilities? we just don't have the local and filfor talent for it .... the same way that we don't have the size, personnel and skill to play euroball.

hihihihi i'd rather utilize aldin ayo's mayhem defense to generate turnovers and feed a transition offense, with our skill set the only high percentage shot for us is a wide open all alone layup.

Oh so you consider Kouame as a top tier NBA level talent because when he played in the previous Olympic qualifier our national team was able to go toe to toe and barely lost to Serbia a certified top 4 team in the world got it hihihihi.

 

[sroth38392]

Oh so you consider Kouame as a top tier NBA level talent because when he played in the previous Olympic qualifier our national team was able to go toe to toe and barely lost to Serbia a certified top 4 team in the world got it hihihihi.

The more I read his comments, the more I realize he has nothing to contribute apart from “I don’t like foreign coaches”.

It’s obvious he doesn’t know shit.

 

[Kaireem2]

So you’re solution is to just have more naturalized players? Right.

Don’t even give me that suggestion we can train local ballers to play like Naturalized because that’s simply not possible. NBA talent is built around individuals who won the genetic lottery. It’s like saying we can have 6 Wembanyamas by having training every 7’4 player in the country. Our 7’3 Kai Sotto can’t even make the 2nd Rd Draft Pick.

You’re a defeatist. We definitely have the size and skill to play team basketball with a 5-out motion offense. The problem is local coaches don’t want to because it’s a lot of work. Pinipilit ang last minute preps and forcing a team to play through talent. That’s not going to work and it’s been proven over and over again.

You sound like a typical tambay who doesn’t want to solve the problem and end the day with a “bahala na” attitude. Nandyan ang problema. Find a real solution.

Like I said, I don’t care if the coach is local or foreign. The right system has to be in place and the current one is anything but.

no, i basically just described the reality of the situation, that i understood why they had to play that way and the unrealistic calls and expectations to do euro style etc, etc,

did i categorically say to continue relying on naturalized players? better go back to grammar school and work on your reading comprehension.

if you bothered to read the last line of my post then you'd have an idea on what the "solution" is.

typical pinoy basketball hater, shoot first then ask questions later

 

[Kaireem2]

Oh so you consider Kouame as a top tier NBA level talent because when he played in the previous Olympic qualifier our national team was able to go toe to toe and barely lost to Serbia a certified top 4 team in the world got it hihihihi.

oh the serbia without jokic and who got creamed by italy on their home soil? selective much?

but let me humor you oh genius .... takeout kouame from that team what will happen? hmmmmmm

colonial mentality is here to stay

 

[Kaireem2]

i bet the reason why no one wants to see a "mayhem" style pinoy defense and offense is because it runs contrary to the organized euro style of play

same way conventional military tacticians frown on "guerilla tactics" - its a western/first world thing

will there be a risk of pinoys being referred to as uncivilized or barbaric if they go "guerilla warfare" on the basketball court?

or maybe because there's tons of social climbers here who would rather employ a western style than develop a "pinoy" style?

again colonial mentality lives on

 

[ja.he2]

oh the serbia without jokic and who got creamed by italy on their home soil? selective much?

but let me humor you oh genius .... takeout kouame from that team what will happen? hmmmmmm

colonial mentality is here to stay

If we take Carlik Jones from South Sudan, RHJ from Jordan, Josh Hawkinson from Japan and every naturalized player from every national team out, it will also greatly affect their teams.

I don't get your logic. Naturalized players have played substantial roles in most national teams, not only for Gilas but for most national team in this world. Some will pan out like Carlik Jones and Josh Hawkinson, some did not like Kyle Anderson.

 

[sroth38392]

i bet the reason why no one wants to see a "mayhem" style pinoy defense and offense is because it runs contrary to the organized euro style of play

same way conventional military tacticians frown on "guerilla tactics" - its a western/first world thing

will there be a risk of pinoys being referred to as uncivilized or barbaric if they go "guerilla warfare" on the basketball court?

or maybe because there's tons of social climbers here who would rather employ a western style than develop a "pinoy" style?

again colonial mentality lives on

no, i basically just described the reality of the situation, that i understood why they had to play that way and the unrealistic calls and expectations to do euro style etc, etc,

did i categorically say to continue relying on naturalized players? better go back to grammar school and work on your reading comprehension.

if you bothered to read the last line of my post then you'd have an idea on what the "solution" is.

typical pinoy basketball hater, shoot first then ask questions later

Which is a dumb solution.

“hihihihi i'd rather utilize aldin ayo's mayhem defense to generate turnovers and feed a transition offense, with our skill set the only high percentage shot for us is a wide open all alone layup.​“

How exactly do you make that work against teams like Canada or France who basically outsize and outperforms us skills-wise?

Admit it. You have no real solution and are only offering band aid solutions.

You’re just throwing out random ideas for the sake of them being un-European. It fits the narrative that anti-foreign coaches from
BCAP keep asserting: they don’t like their ideas challenged by a foreigner.

Also, how exactly is “mayhem”’s transition offense any different from Chot’s bara bara offense? It’s literally a pressure defense to force turnovers. Yeah, that’s a strategy. It doesn’t work all the time especially against teams bigger and more skilled than you. You want to try going up against Australia’s “mayhem” defense? I’ll bet you a kit kat which team wins.

Your agenda has been exposed. False nationalism.

For your information, ISO ball and mayhem defense did not originate in the Philippines. Kaya mo lang sinabi yan dahil matagal na syang ginagamit.

 

[sroth38392]

If we take Carlik Jones from South Sudan, RHJ from Jordan, Josh Hawkinson from Japan and every naturalized player from every national team out, it will also greatly affect their teams.

I don't get your logic. Naturalized players have played substantial roles in most national teams, not only for Gilas but for most national team in this world. Some will pan out like Carlik Jones and Josh Hawkinson, some did not like Kyle Anderson.

Lebanon defeated France in 2006 with a naturalized player in Joe Vogel.

This is nothing new. He’s just throwing random BS for the sake of having an argument.

 

[CoJ2]

You need the most qualified coach who knows the modern game to win. Fin

How many local coaches have the FIBA experience and actually play a modern 5-out motion offense? None. Chot is the closest but he opted to go ISO basketball in the WC.

People here don’t have a beef with pinoy coaches. They have a problem with their outdated tactics that overly rely on ISO ball.

Just look how we easily got manhandled by Italy and SSD once JC got shut down.

I don’t care who is the coach, local or foreign. I care if he is qualified to do the job.

Chot was obviously not the most qualified for the WC.

I share the same sentiment, that's why it will be better if we hire a foreign coach, then have young coaches apprentice for him so that in a decade or 2, tht local coach could take over.

Anyway, there's a reason why local coaches are not being hired by other NTeams outside SEA. (as a counter argument for Tab not being in the radar for other countries and settled at Ateneo)

 

[ja.he2]

why do we ignore the grey elephant? can no one really see it?

recent gilas success has been built on utilizing top tier nba naturalized players like blatche and clarkson

whether it be iso or the misunderstood euro style (we don't have the personnel to do that) or even the so called "korean style" (which we don't have enough shooters to execute) bottom line is local and filfor talent really just sucks compared to the competition, hence we are forced to be overeliant on imports - i mean naturalized players who are paid handsomely to bring us a win.

not only is there no shame in that but its something that needs no overanalyzing to death.

team oriented blah blah blah yet scottie thomposn can't even properly bring the balldown vs 5'6 dundao of angola

i have to say this - "pang pinoy lang" that's how to best describe our basketball skills

so imho opinion the problem is not really an overeliance on iso ball, its just that we only have the naturalized player who can go iso, but imagine if we had two such players then it won't be easy for defenses now right? now imagine if we had three? or four? or perhaps all our top 6 players have the ability to breakdown their defender one on one.

seriously if you had a mj, kobe and melo on the team don't tell me you won't maximize their iso capabilities? we just don't have the local and filfor talent for it .... the same way that we don't have the size, personnel and skill to play euroball.

hihihihi i'd rather utilize aldin ayo's mayhem defense to generate turnovers and feed a transition offense, with our skill set the only high percentage shot for us is a wide open all alone layup.

I don't think so as many of our Filipino player are standouts for their respective teams in Japan and Korea as Asian IMPORTS. For example, don't you think why RJ Abarrientos left KBL for the B.League? Because most Korean guards are outmatched against him that the KBL wants to put salary cap as well as probihiting Asian imports to win the Rookie of the Year award. Why? Again, Filipino imports (RJ, Rhenz, Ethan and even SJ) are outshining the Koreans in their domestic league.

Fun fact: outside Australia and New Zealand, among Asian teams, it was Gilas who have the most number of players in their team that are playing overseas. Another trivia, these overseas players contributed alot in the World Cup campaign of Gilas.

 

[sroth38392]

I share the same sentiment, that's why it will be better if we hire a foreign coach, then have young coaches apprentice for him so that in a decade or 2, tht local coach could take over.

Anyway, there's a reason why local coaches are not being hired by other NTeams outside SEA. (as a counter argument for Tab not being in the radar for other countries and settled at Ateneo)

This is basically what Iran did. Hire foreign coaches and have locals learn from them.

They were led by a local coach in their 2019 WC qualifying and event.

 

[Marsh Mello2]

So you’re solution is to just have more naturalized players? Right.

Don’t even give me that suggestion we can train local ballers to play like Naturalized because that’s simply not possible. NBA talent is built around individuals who won the genetic lottery. It’s like saying we can have 6 Wembanyamas by having training every 7’4 player in the country. Our 7’3 Kai Sotto can’t even make the 2nd Rd Draft Pick.

You’re a defeatist. We definitely have the size and skill to play team basketball with a 5-out motion offense. The problem is local coaches don’t want to because it’s a lot of work. Pinipilit ang last minute preps and forcing a team to play through talent. That’s not going to work and it’s been proven over and over again.

You sound like a typical tambay who doesn’t want to solve the problem and end the day with a “bahala na” attitude. Nandyan ang problema. Find a real solution.

Like I said, I don’t care if the coach is local or foreign. The right system has to be in place and the current one is anything but.

I agree with this, this guy want us to just settle down and accept that we are 'inferior'. no need for any improvements whatsoever heh? This is what plagues the Filipinos, yung okay na, bahala na attitude trans: being content with what is present. Is this guy just okay with us losing, never adpating and just settle for a battle-tested losing strategy? that's not a good pinoy value to have.

 

[sroth38392]

I agree with this, this guy want us to just settle down and accept that we are 'inferior'. no need for any improvements whatsoever heh? This is what plagues the Filipinos, yung okay na, bahala na attitude trans: being content with what is present. Is this guy just okay with us losing, never adpating and just settle for a battle-tested losing strategy? that's not a good pinoy value to have.

Lol His solution? Mayhem defense.

That’s basically pressure defense to force TOs that lead to a wide open layup.

LMAO

 

[Rds2]

Honestly we are dependent on NPs, particularly centers. The two most talented teams I know were disappointments. The best homegrown team, the Centennial team and the Filfor team were disappointments. I think most agree that the first time we could be proud of our team Pinas when it became Gilas. The ingredients were, a dominant center by Asian standards, surrounded by 4 undersized guys who. could shoot and play decent international defense and the system and training to make it work. Since then and just before this WC, most of the highlights of team Pinas was with a center NP.

Well this WC we got lucky that Edu was healthier and better than advertised. Indeed this WC was better than 2019 primarily because of the presence of Edu. Without Edu, many of the games codve been blowouts of 2019 levels.

Again, we were lucky. We did not really train Edu. He got his skills abroad. We were lucky he got his passport before 16. I think we still are following a formula established by Gilas 1. Play a deliberate pace anchored on defense anchored a good rim protector. From Douthit to Blatche to Kouame and now to Edu. But what if a good rim protector is not available? Even Kai is not someone we can rely on defense like Edu.

I dont really know. But from the game I personally saw, NZs early dominance over Jordan might give us an idea. Size and starpower Jordan leads NZ. And yet for most of the 2nd half NZ was leading by double digits. It took a herculean effort by RHJ to tie that game up. Im not saying NZ is the epitome of world basketball. All Im saying they employ a style predicated on not having a good rim protector. They play good rugged defense but more importantly the play with pace and space. Seems to be a good idea when neither Edu or Kouame is available.

Also, another example is Nenads team without a rim protector that matched up well against Korea but got blown out by NZ in their turf. I dont think it says something bad about Nenads system it just shows how far we have to go defensively. Without a good defensive center, defensive responsibility is shared by all 5 players. That means all should be average to good defenders. I think this is hard with our culture of showboating and scoring. Designated scorers can make all the mistakes but when they score all is forgiven. I think that should stop if we are to be less reliant on importing good rim protectors because it doesnt seem we can produce one. We have tall and big home growns but so far it is a folly to rely on them for defense.

 

[r1ck2]

oh the serbia without jokic and who got creamed by italy on their home soil? selective much?

but let me humor you oh genius .... takeout kouame from that team what will happen? hmmmmmm

colonial mentality is here to stay

Oh ok let me humor you a bit half wit, is Jokic playing in the ongoing World cup where Serbia has already established itself as a top 4 team and can actually make the finals later on? That team Gilas faced had 3 former Euroleague MVPs in Milos Teodosic (Clippers), Nemanja Bjelica (Minnesota, Sacramento, Miami, GSW), Vasilije Micic (OKC) and other NBA players in Filip Petrusev (Philadelphia),Boban Marjanovic (SA, Clippers, Houston, Dallas). Yeah so by your logic Koaume should be in the NBA because if we take him out we would have been blown out hihihihi.

 

[CoJ2]

I agree with this, this guy want us to just settle down and accept that we are 'inferior'. no need for any improvements whatsoever heh? This is what plagues the Filipinos, yung okay na, bahala na attitude trans: being content with what is present. Is this guy just okay with us losing, never adpating and just settle for a battle-tested losing strategy? that's not a good pinoy value to have.

mediocrity partnered with blind nationalism is a recipe for disaster