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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

  • Thread starter Thread starter IPC2
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Guys, do U see Justin Brownlee as the ideal naturalized player for Gilas in the 2025 FIBA Asia Cup? Brownlee may be 35 yrs old now which means he would already be 37 by the 2025 Asia Cup, but he has hardly slowed down. It looks like he's still on his prime at present although he's expected to slow down a bit in the next few years.

What's good with Brownlee is that he is now well assimilated with the Gilas system & may have already established enough chemistry & bond with his Gilas teammates having trained, scrimmaged & played with Gilas for an adequate period of time.
 
JAMSKIE said:
Guys, do U see Justin Brownlee as the ideal naturalized player for Gilas in the 2025 FIBA Asia Cup? Brownlee may be 35 yrs old now which means he would already be 37 by the 2025 Asia Cup, but he has hardly slowed down. It looks like he's still on his prime at present although he's expected to slow down a bit in the next few years.

What's good with Brownlee is that he is now well assimilated with the Gilas system & may have already established enough chemistry & bond with his Gilas teammates having trained, scrimmaged & played with Gilas for an adequate period of time.
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Definitely, barring any serious injuries or regression in his quality of play in the next 2 years. I think he'd assimilate well with whoever local coach SBP appoints, on whatever kind of system of play that coach employs, by then. I hope, Ange also qualifies as a local by then, too.
 
magic_chiongson said:
michael cooper says hi
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Yeah, googled the guy. Seems to be a 3/D player. But correct me if Im wrong. The guy seems to have some skill beyond defense.

I wanted to highlight Bruce Bowen because he was signed by the Spurs to match up with perimeter players who started blowing up because of the NBA rule changes. There may have been 3/D players before but I submit it was in the birth of the pace and space era with guys with very limited but very important skillsets like Bruce Bowen where the name 3/D was born.

The important part here was D. The guy was fast enough and tall enough to guard the best NBA perimeter players. Secondly, was 3. A player like Bowen would have been unplayable in the NBA but IRC the Spurs helped him develop his 3. Those two things were important, the other skillset was optional.

This goes back to Tab vs Chots basketball principles. Defense vs offense. Tabs SF is defensively good internationally but limited offense. While Chots SF has guard like skills but undersized.

This brings me to the Tabs DR game which some point as evidence that Tabs system was weak to. Let me point that Tabs best perimeter player, Dwight, did not play that game. In his place Mike Nieto played 22 mins and had a lowest minus 25 and low efficiency of 3. We lost that game by 27. I would say that it is still a credit to Tabs system that he lost to an athletic and skilled DR team by only 27 despite playing major minutes to a 6’1 converted center in the 3 spot as well as having 2 midget PGs.

If Tabs vision was allowed to continue and PBA supported it, we might have guys like Scottie, Bollick and CJ playing PG and Malonzo and Oftana backing up Dwight as SF. I would say with Tab, his core and PBA support, winning games this WC would have been a closer possibility.

It doesnt matter that many of Tabs players were picked by Chot. Chot doesnt know how to maximize them. Navarro was ill utilized and Dwight was used as PF. If Tab was handling this team, Malonzo would be playing SF. But now we are stuck with starting two centers in Kai and Japs if JC is used. A very clunky and space killing 5.
 
That DR game isnt just a normal minama game, the Dominican Coach adjusted well... from a 2 point dr leas 3 with 3 minutes left in the game into a 27 point lead in the end..
 
magic_chiongson said:
michael cooper says hi
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Rds said:
Yeah, googled the guy. Seems to be a 3/D player. But correct me if Im wrong. The guy seems to have some skill beyond defense.

I wanted to highlight Bruce Bowen because he was signed by the Spurs to match up with perimeter players who started blowing up because of the NBA rule changes. There may have been 3/D players before but I submit it was in the birth of the pace and space era with guys with very limited but very important skillsets like Bruce Bowen where the name 3/D was born.

The important part here was D. The guy was fast enough and tall enough to guard the best NBA perimeter players. Secondly, was 3. A player like Bowen would have been unplayable in the NBA but IRC the Spurs helped him develop his 3. Those two things were important, the other skillset was optional.

This goes back to Tab vs Chots basketball principles. Defense vs offense. Tabs SF is defensively good internationally but limited offense. While Chots SF has guard like skills but undersized.

This brings me to the Tabs DR game which some point as evidence that Tabs system was weak to. Let me point that Tabs best perimeter player, Dwight, did not play that game. In his place Mike Nieto played 22 mins and had a lowest minus 25 and low efficiency of 3. We lost that game by 27. I would say that it is still a credit to Tabs system that he lost to an athletic and skilled DR team by only 27 despite playing major minutes to a 6’1 converted center in the 3 spot as well as having 2 midget PGs.

If Tabs vision was allowed to continue and PBA supported it, we might have guys like Scottie, Bollick and CJ playing PG and Malonzo and Oftana backing up Dwight as SF. I would say with Tab, his core and PBA support, winning games this WC would have been a closer possibility.

It doesnt matter that many of Tabs players were picked by Chot. Chot doesnt know how to maximize them. Navarro was ill utilized and Dwight was used as PF. If Tab was handling this team, Malonzo would be playing SF. But now we are stuck with starting two centers in Kai and Japs if JC is used. A very clunky and space killing 5.
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​Yeah, Coop was the first 3 & D guy, won DPOY. But, he averaged 4.2 assists for his career, and helped bring up the ball at times for the Showtime Lakers.

Going here, hope we produce a guy like Coop among our 6'5"-6'7" players. Closest we have are Gabe Norwood and maybe Will Navarro (both without the 3).
 
Another example to show how 3/D is important in the NBA. Lets talk about Dermar Derozan. 6’6/6’7 athletic high scoring SF but has not won much in the playoffs. Do you know his career scoring is only a 100 pts less than Steph Curry, his draft batchmate?

Why didnt his teams win much if he scores a lot and is athletic? The answer is 3 and D. Dermar plays SF, the most important position on offense in the NBA. Even at listed 6’7 he does not have enough length and strength to matchup against the top SFs like LBJ. Second is 3. Dermar is a good midrange shooter but he never shoots the 3. He is a space killer in the halfcourt set. This is more important in the playoffs where defense will force you to more halfcourt sets. So when Toronto swapped Dermar with Kawhi they won an NBA championship. One of the reasons is Kawhi is a much better defender and a better 3 pt shooter than Dermar. This goes to show you how important 3 and D is in the NBA game.

Heck even Nuggets played Bruce Brown crunch time minutes over the bigger and more skilled MPJ because of his defense. But because Brown had good 3 pt shooting it actually helped them close that last game.

My conclusion is that your system should be good enough to accomodate a limitedly skilled SF in order to match against more offensively talented teams. If your system can only succed with an SF with the skillset of a Brownlee or Dwight then your shooting yourself in the foot. Because Brownlee will not play if you have JC and Dwight will be injured if you play him heavy minutes in consecutive games.
 
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reamily said:
That DR game isnt just a normal minama game, the Dominican Coach adjusted well... from a 2 point dr leas 3 with 3 minutes left in the game into a 27 point lead in the end..
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i looked at that game very positively. it highlighted a lot of things (talked about here plenty of times) namely: we relatively lacked experience. although DR wasnt head and shoulder bigger than us, they were still bigger and stronger\more athletic as a team. there was a big drop off the talent on certain positions, good example above from Dwight to Mike.

we can argue that the 2014 team that CCR coached is much more a team than what CTB had. CCR's team was playing together for a longer period of time, had a few players playing for them prior to 2014 WC that knows the system (and could have been inserted if there was injury or unavailability), and had depth (Dray vs Ange pa lng alam na this, i dont even know who will match up with that time RDO and Ping from CTBs team). despite that, i would argue that CTBs team took a different approach available to them to compete and it showed we can have a sustainable pool that we can foster to be similar to what CCR had but with a longer prep time because we can start as young as what CTB had.

and I agree with you. DR adjusted well. as the game went, they learned where they had advantage against our boys and really pounded us where they can. maybe wrong words, but i think CTB was out coached for the simple reason that DR players was able to execute their game plan more consistently than our team. doesnt matter if CTB has better x and os, DR imposed their will and won.
 
Rds said:
Another example to show how 3/D is important in the NBA. Lets talk about Dermar Derozan. 6’6/6’7 athletic high scoring SF but has not won much in the playoffs. Do you know his career scoring is only a 100 pts less than Steph Curry, his draft batchmate?

Why didnt his teams win much if he scores a lot and is athletic? The answer is 3 and D. Dermar plays SF, the most important position on offense in the NBA. Even at listed 6’7 he does not have enough length and strength to matchup against the top SFs like LBJ. Second is 3. Dermar is a good midrange shooter but he never shoots the 3. He is a space killer in the halfcourt set. This is more important in the playoffs where defense will force you to more halfcourt sets. So when Toronto swapped Dermar with Kawhi they won an NBA championship. One of the reasons is Kawhi is a much better defender and a better 3 pt shooter than Dermar. This goes to show you how important 3 and D is in the NBA game.

Heck even Nuggets played Bruce Brown crunch time minutes over the bigger and more skilled MPJ because of his defense. But because Brown had good 3 pt shooting it actually helped them close that last game.

My conclusion is that your system should be good enough to accomodate a limitedly skilled SF in order to match against more offensively talented teams. If your system can only succed with an SF with the skillset of a Brownlee or Dwight then your shooting yourself in the foot. Because Brownlee will not play if you have JC and Dwight will be injured if you play him heavy minutes in consecutive games.
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I mean I think it should be known any team who wants to win needs a defensive wing. There really hasn’t been a team in the NBA that hasn’t had a 3/D wings or wings outside maybe the 2016 Cavs.

Its probably the most underrated type of player to have if teams want to win a ring. That’s why someone like Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Tony Allen were always on great teams back in the day. Also now someone like PJ Tucker was argaubly one of the biggest reasons why the Bucks won the ring in 2021. Another one is a Danny Green for the Raptors in 2019’as well.
 

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Rds said:
Another example to show how 3/D is important in the NBA. Lets talk about Dermar Derozan. 6’6/6’7 athletic high scoring SF but has not won much in the playoffs. Do you know his career scoring is only a 100 pts less than Steph Curry, his draft batchmate?

Why didnt his teams win much if he scores a lot and is athletic? The answer is 3 and D. Dermar plays SF, the most important position on offense in the NBA. Even at listed 6’7 he does not have enough length and strength to matchup against the top SFs like LBJ. Second is 3. Dermar is a good midrange shooter but he never shoots the 3. He is a space killer in the halfcourt set. This is more important in the playoffs where defense will force you to more halfcourt sets. So when Toronto swapped Dermar with Kawhi they won an NBA championship. One of the reasons is Kawhi is a much better defender and a better 3 pt shooter than Dermar. This goes to show you how important 3 and D is in the NBA game.

Heck even Nuggets played Bruce Brown crunch time minutes over the bigger and more skilled MPJ because of his defense. But because Brown had good 3 pt shooting it actually helped them close that last game.

My conclusion is that your system should be good enough to accomodate a limitedly skilled SF in order to match against more offensively talented teams. If your system can only succed with an SF with the skillset of a Brownlee or Dwight then your shooting yourself in the foot. Because Brownlee will not play if you have JC and Dwight will be injured if you play him heavy minutes in consecutive games.
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i agree that 3&D is very important but your take is bullshit lol. singling out demar derozan and then mentioning steph curry in the same sentence. derozan is not a 3&D player and neither is curry since he is a much worse defender than derozan. why do you think he has won way more games than derozan? 3&D is not their roles. replace KD with derozan in those warriors teams and they likely win the same championships. derozan just never played in a good contender, and he would be a great player on a contending team probably not as a first option. his game fits the modern era, being able to play 3 positions. you also mentioned not having enough length and strength to matchup against LBJ but nobody else did in that era.
 
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magic_chiongson said:
i agree that 3&D is very important but your take is bullshit lol. singling out demar derozan and then mentioning steph curry in the same sentence. derozan is not a 3&D player and neither is curry since he is a much worse defender than derozan. why do you think he has won way more games than derozan? 3&D is not their roles. replace KD with derozan in those warriors teams and they likely win the same championships. derozan just never played in a good contender, and he would be a great player on a contending team probably not as a first option. his game fits the modern era, being able to play 3 positions. you also mentioned not having enough length and strength to matchup against LBJ but nobody else did in that era.
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How many playoff series has Toronto won with Dermar? IRC he was swapped 1 to 1 with Kawhi. And yet Kawhi won a championship with the same team. If that is not proof that Dermar's lack in 3 and D has been detrimental to his team's playoff success I don't know what is. Dermar is skilled and athletic. He is such a consistent scorer and injury free that he basically equals Curry's total production. But in the playoffs all of his skills are essentially wasted because he doesnt shoot the 3. On the opposite end, 3/D players are not very skilled but are very important in the playoffs.

I am just highlighting how important 3 point shooting and perimeter defense is in the NBA playoffs and by extension in Fiba games. Tall defensive SFs don't have to have a bag to be effective internationally like how Navarro and Balti to a degree were effective with Tab. I just highlighted the main weakness of Chot's system because his SFs essentially need to have guard skills. Even Malonzo, who has pretty decent 3 and D skills, does not play a lot of SF for Chot. That only goes to show you the weakness of the guys system. The offensive skill level in his 3 spot is too high that he essentially puts guards there. No wonder why our defense sucks.
 
Rds said:
How many playoff series has Toronto won with Dermar? IRC he was swapped 1 to 1 with Kawhi. And yet Kawhi won a championship with the same team. If that is not proof that Dermar's lack in 3 and D has been detrimental to his team's playoff success I don't know what is. Dermar is skilled and athletic. He is such a consistent scorer and injury free that he basically equals Curry's total production. But in the playoffs all of his skills are essentially wasted because he doesnt shoot the 3. On the opposite end, 3/D players are not very skilled but are very important in the playoffs.

I am just highlighting how important 3 point shooting and perimeter defense is in the NBA playoffs and by extension in Fiba games. Tall defensive SFs don't have to have a bag to be effective internationally like how Navarro and Balti to a degree were effective with Tab. I just highlighted the main weakness of Chot's system because his SFs essentially need to have guard skills. Even Malonzo, who has pretty decent 3 and D skills, does not play a lot of SF for Chot. That only goes to show you the weakness of the guys system. The offensive skill level in his 3 spot is too high that he essentially puts guards there. No wonder why our defense sucks.
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And Deebo has a history of choking in the playoffs too. That, along with his lack of a defensive game, hinders him. I love him with the Bulls, but I am not lost on his history of playoff performances (which I used to mock him for in Toronto).

We need SFs that are, at a minimum, good shooters and/or defensive players. We pride ourselves on our hustle, and that should be applied to defense. Defense can be augmented, especially by a long rangy defensive SF. We should be able to find a way to have Malonzo and Navarro play SF. Only way they play SF is under a system that prioritizes defense. And Navarro does have ballhandling and passing. Malonzo can shoot. Heck, Oftana too. Why shorter guys take precedence is beyond me, given that the three have requisite skills, and defense to boot.
 
Rds said:
How many playoff series has Toronto won with Dermar? IRC he was swapped 1 to 1 with Kawhi. And yet Kawhi won a championship with the same team. If that is not proof that Dermar's lack in 3 and D has been detrimental to his team's playoff success I don't know what is. Dermar is skilled and athletic. He is such a consistent scorer and injury free that he basically equals Curry's total production. But in the playoffs all of his skills are essentially wasted because he doesnt shoot the 3. On the opposite end, 3/D players are not very skilled but are very important in the playoffs.

I am just highlighting how important 3 point shooting and perimeter defense is in the NBA playoffs and by extension in Fiba games. Tall defensive SFs don't have to have a bag to be effective internationally like how Navarro and Balti to a degree were effective with Tab. I just highlighted the main weakness of Chot's system because his SFs essentially need to have guard skills. Even Malonzo, who has pretty decent 3 and D skills, does not play a lot of SF for Chot. That only goes to show you the weakness of the guys system. The offensive skill level in his 3 spot is too high that he essentially puts guards there. No wonder why our defense sucks.
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sigh you're missing the point. kawhi is just much better than derozan, period. that's it. it's not the 3&d thing. are you gonna say next that karl malone, charles barkley, allen iverson, steve nash, derrick rose, russell westbrook, james harden etc inability to play good 3&D is the reason why they haven't won a championship?
 
IPC said:
And Deebo has a history of choking in the playoffs too. That, along with his lack of a defensive game, hinders him. I love him with the Bulls, but I am not lost on his history of playoff performances (which I used to mock him for in Toronto).

We need SFs that are, at a minimum, good shooters and/or defensive players. We pride ourselves on our hustle, and that should be applied to defense. Defense can be augmented, especially by a long rangy defensive SF. We should be able to find a way to have Malonzo and Navarro play SF. Only way they play SF is under a system that prioritizes defense. And Navarro does have ballhandling and passing. Malonzo can shoot. Heck, Oftana too. Why shorter guys take precedence is beyond me, given that the three have requisite skills, and defense to boot.
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i don't know if he improved or the competition is not tough but when played with Northport Navarro was able to handle and shoot the ball well , and he was also able to perform good against the top teams , even before his injury he was playing good against Ginebra and if i remember it correctly its not contact its just an unfortunate event on his part, as he is starting too look like someone than can replace Malonzo's role in northport , Malonzo improved his shooting when he joined ginebra though there's still a need for consistency as there were games that he waxed hot while there were also games that he laid bricks, another thing that i want Malonzo to improve is his handles, he still dribbles the ball a little higher, if he can have the smoothness of gabe's dribbling it will really unlock his full potential
 
IPC said:
And Deebo has a history of choking in the playoffs too. That, along with his lack of a defensive game, hinders him. I love him with the Bulls, but I am not lost on his history of playoff performances (which I used to mock him for in Toronto).

We need SFs that are, at a minimum, good shooters and/or defensive players. We pride ourselves on our hustle, and that should be applied to defense. Defense can be augmented, especially by a long rangy defensive SF. We should be able to find a way to have Malonzo and Navarro play SF. Only way they play SF is under a system that prioritizes defense. And Navarro does have ballhandling and passing. Malonzo can shoot. Heck, Oftana too. Why shorter guys take precedence is beyond me, given that the three have requisite skills, and defense to boot.
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If we are being real I think the shorter sfs take precedence because they are better, the bigger sfs in the country are just not as skilled or good.
 
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