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Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

  • Thread starter Thread starter IPC2
  • Start date Start date
@DAdmiral

What do you think the national teams of Iran, Japan, China, Korea, Jordan, etc. are doing right now? They are on their respective training camps, right? They're preparing for the Olympics (Japan & Iran only) & the 2021 FIBA Asia Cup.

The training & tune up games that these teams are doing right now would be very relevant to their future campaigns in FIBA tournaments & qualifying windows. And next year, you bet they will do another training camp.

Now, halimbawa we don't have the Gilas cadet program at present, what do you think our PBA-select Gilas team would be doing right now?

Chances are, the PBA-select Gilas team would start to prepare for the Asia Cup 2 weeks prior to the tournament which would a flirt with another disaster.
 
JAMSKIE said:
Here's my take: During the PBA off-season - July to September, national team players in the PBA should train/practice & play for Gilas. Come to think of it, by 2025, most of the current Gilas players like Dwight Ramos, Baltazar, Tamayo, RJ Abarrientos, SJ Belangel, would be in the PBA. If they are united with fellow Gilas players who are now PBA players - Navarro, Heading, Go, Matt Nieto, Suerte, Bulanadi, in Gilas training camp during the PBA off-season, these players already have an established chemistry & bonding which they've developed playing for together for Gilas before they turned pro. Kumbaga eh they'll just need some refresher na lang.

Kai & Kouame can join them during the July to September period since almost all pro leagues in the world (including the NBA, NBL-Australia & European pro leagues) are in the off season in that period.

This is what most, if not all, countries have been doing in years/decades. This is about continuity.
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I hope guys like Dwight, Thirdy, Baltazar, Tamayo, and probably Abarrientos won't play in the PBA (meaning they play overseas) until their early to mid-30s, kapag pababa na ang laro nila. Or at least when they've already hit their peak. Availability for windows might be a small issue, but they'll surely be available for the main tournaments.

I agree about the continuity. Get used to the system (on both ends) para muscle memory na lang. We only change a few parts, and we slowly integrate the next generation. Continuity and change, kamo.
 
jasper222 said:
That's true, but this season the Suns discouraged Ayton from posting up often, molding him into a rim running big. The Suns offense also runs through its perimeter players, it just happens that CP3 and Booker can pass.
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That's exactly why Ayton receives a lot of lobs. CP3 and Booker can pass.

Now if our guards can do the same for Kai and Kouame, that's going to open up new options for our offense. The two of them will provide vertical spacing.
 
IPC said:
That's exactly why Ayton receives a lot of lobs. CP3 and Booker can pass.

Now if our guards can do the same for Kai and Kouame, that's going to open up new options for our offense. The two of them will provide vertical spacing.
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Agreed. Personally, I feel that the best PG at setting up bigs is Kiefer, as seen during the qualifiers when he would perfectly set-up both ground bound Junemar and Japeth. Granted that he isn't shoehorned into the line-up after an 18 month lay-off, of course.
 
JAMSKIE said:
I think we had already come across to this kind of argument before bro. And my stand in this discussion is still the same, and that is, while hindi naman nagkakalayo ang Gilas (2019 FIBA World Cup team) sa ibang teams in so far as length of preparation period prior to the 2019 FIBA WC is concerned, nagkakatalo yan sa "accumulative" training & preparation which the other teams/countries have been doing years before the 2019 FIBA WC. I mean, during the off season of all the pro leagues all over the world which is during the July to September period, almost all these (if not all) national teams of other countries train/practice & play. And they are doing this on an annual basis.

And this is something our PBA-select Gilas doesn't have the luxury for very obvious reason.

Yes, I believe hindi lang naman ito ang dahilan. Its obvious naman that talent wise, teams like Australia, Serbia, Italy, Argentina, & those teams from Europe & Latin American countries, are significantly better than Gilas, & not to mention their edge in size.

But I think those lower tier world teams like Tunisia, Senegal, and our fellow Asian teams like China, Iran, Japan, Korea - these teams won't enjoy significant advantage over us in terms of talent, but it is in the preparation where they will enjoy a significant edge over us.

Remember, we beat Iran in 2015 Asian Championships mainly becoz we had a good preparation & of course becoz of coach Tab.
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This is the problem with the national team program. There is no consistent player to play in the NT for about 10 years except for Gabe Norwood.

It seems that with the PBA players NT, it's like their "service" is at most, 2-3 years. After that, you see another set of players

It's probably better to send the whole Meralco or TNT team to FIBA than some PBA All Star with zero chemistry
 
robert0326 said:
Actually other countries doing that.. Iran for example, 6 to 7 players came from only 1 team.. It means chemistry is already there.. the problem here kasi ginagawang issue yung majority of players in one team.. Palakasan daw...
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Or kaya naman, we build NTs like we're just going to an All-Star game. Feeling Team USA lang.
 
JAMSKIE said:
I think we had already come across to this kind of argument before bro. And my stand in this discussion is still the same, and that is, while hindi naman nagkakalayo ang Gilas (2019 FIBA World Cup team) sa ibang teams in so far as length of preparation period prior to the 2019 FIBA WC is concerned, nagkakatalo yan sa "accumulative" training & preparation which the other teams/countries have been doing years before the 2019 FIBA WC. I mean, during the off season of all the pro leagues all over the world which is during the July to September period, almost all these (if not all) national teams of other countries train/practice & play. And they are doing this on an annual basis. Even the tune up games or continental zone exposure is a preperation advantage for those in Americas and Europe. While they're playing vs top 10 teams annually, Asian teams only play vs bottom ranked teams. This difference to exposure level is magnified in league play. Just imagine if Kai Sotto is practice regularly with 7 footer national team.0layers in Australia and NZ , imports in the ANBL regularly, while Junmar is playing in the PBA, isn't that such a significant advantage for Kai. ?

And this is something our PBA-select Gilas doesn't have the luxury for very obvious reason.

Yes, I believe hindi lang naman ito ang dahilan. Its obvious naman that talent wise, teams like Australia, Serbia, Italy, Argentina, & those teams from Europe & Latin American countries, are significantly better than Gilas, & not to mention their edge in size.

But I think those lower tier world teams like Tunisia, Senegal, and our fellow Asian teams like China, Iran, Japan, Korea - these teams won't enjoy significant advantage over us in terms of talent, but it is in the preparation where they will enjoy a significant edge over us.

Remember, we beat Iran in 2015 Asian Championships mainly becoz we had a good preparation & of course becoz of coach Tab.
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No one is suggesting that preperation is not a significant factor it is, what I am referring to is the extent that it is factor relative to all the other factors
Such as
-talent (includes size)
-major league exposure

In your example of teams such as Korea , Iran etc. You will notice in terms of placings in the world cup they are all bunched up together at the bottom 25 %. yet they prepared more than many of the top 25 % (final 8) like US , Spain etc..
So you see immediate preperation prior to the World cup while it is a factor it is NOT as significant a measurement that determines placings.
Now if you dig deeper into the detail , what then are the more significant factors that measure placings and you will find that it is

1. Exposure of the players regularly to major league competition ( NBA , Euro ) , this is what Jasmike you are referring to when you mention in previous years these players where preparing. It's not only when they come together for their national team, but included in this long term preperation is gaining the famiarity playing with each other in club tes with the same players of size and same style (FIBA, , fiba worlds is essentially Euro league basketball in size and style). This is the preperation and development advantage other higher ranked teams have over the lower rank teams , like in Asia. It's really not national team preperation that is the difference. But exposure of the national team players to FIBA world like level basketball regularly. That indeed is what the results and placing indicate is the bigger factor and difference
 
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Take example Kai , if he plays regularly vs 7 footers (national team players of Australia, Nz and imports while Junmar just plays regularly in the PBA isn't that such a big advantage for Kai in terms of development exposure ?

Now look at the games these players in Europe and America's play aside from their national team games played yearly vs top 10 world teams, while Asian teams.only get to play among themselves in zone competition.
These players regularly play vs better players top tier regularly.
So you see it's really exposure to top tier talent regularly that is the difference

Tab mentioned this actually quite often.. this is the next thing Gilas players and the team.need and it is what Tab mentioned that elevated his Nz team in the 2000, he has like 50 games vs world level teams in the 2000s

You see we cannot have Calamba like training camps continously for like 5 years straight and keep a team together, at some point the players have to go and report to their club or school teams. Now if they're are reporting to a Euro level or Australian NBL team like Kai, that is where the significant advantage is , grabe talaga yung advantage
 
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@DAdmiral

These, I have no argument with. I was just implying in my posts that when we say "preparation" by a certain team for a particular FIBA tournament, its not really limited to the immediate training or preparation it had prior to a FIBA tournament but the training & games it had "years" before that specific FIBA tournament. So in a sense, China may have trained for only 1 month prior to the 2019 FIBA World Cup, but basically it had trained for several months years before the 2019 World Cup, & that is during the off season of its top domestic league - the CBA. That is something our PBA-select Gilas team in 2019 World Cup didn't have.
 
And my point is development exposure preperation is actually more important than pre tournament preperation.

Developing regularly in a major overseas league is the difference.

Tournament preperation time will always be very limited , 2 weeks or 1 month or whatever. This is the norm for most international world cup teams.

What is different is where the players play regularly. That's it . It's not limited to league play, but if the national team is playing regularly in Europe or top world teams, as compared to SEA lang , of course they will be better
 
It's plausible in terms of just raw talent NZ is just at the level of top Asian teams, but because their players are Euro and Australia league regular players and developed in Div 1, plus their national team plays regularly at world level,
The results in the world is drastically different than any Asian team, why? Again It's world level competition exposure.
That's really the difference
 
IPC said:
Buti pa Japan, no. It's really disappointing that we now have to play catch-up to Japan. They have two NBA-caliber players already, while our best eligible players end up playing in the PBA (where their availability for Gilas is in doubt, especially recently, and especially when they play for certain teams).

Now that we're lagging, how the hell do we catch up to Japan and even SoKor in terms of player development? We have Kai, but he's just potential at this point. Hopefully we can produce more NBL-caliber players.

At least Tab's Gilas amateur program is a start. May standards na sa height at least. The fact that he was able to turn Baltazar and Tamayo into tweener forwards, impressive. Hopefully he makes more.
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thatweirdguy said:
But Japan had not beaten us DAW and Korea has not won anything DAW and we're still the kings of the SEA region so everything is fine. /Sarcasm

While the amateur program is off to a good start I wonder if it's really sustainable.. nagpaparinig na nga ang PBA
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JAMSKIE said:
That's the key word right there bro, sustainability. And the No. 1 burden or hurdle for its sustainability is none other than the PBA.

We've seen that with the Gilas-1 program some 10 yrs ago.
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That's why I hope that the team wins a semis appearance as a mark of success, just to convince the Filipino basketball community. But honestly, even if we don't medal, we should stay the course. Keep promoting the most promising teenagers for the 2023 WC windows. We'll see the fruits of our labor by 2023. We might see more overseas and who knows, even US NCAA (Division I, II, or III, I don't care) offers for our most promising players.
 
What analyzed is implying makes mire valid reason why Indonesia should be given the world cup slot..they need to be exposed in world level..
 
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DAdmiral said:
You see we cannot have Calamba like training camps continously for like 5 years straight and keep a team together, at some point the players have to go and report to their club or school teams. Now if they're are reporting to a Euro level or Australian NBL team like Kai, that is where the significant advantage is , grabe talaga yung advantage
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Yeah bro, I get your point.

That is why I strongly advocate that PBA changes its schedule that would make its off season in the July to September period so that current Gilas players who would be PBA players in a few years time can still train, practice & play for Gilas in the years to come.

Let's be realistic, not all current Gilas players would get offers from foreign pro leagues. I believe guys like Matt Nieto, Navarro, Oftana, RJ Abarrientos, Heading would just be playing in the PBA for the rest of their basketball careers.

So if the PBA off season is scheduled from July to September, the aforementioned players could reunite with their fellow Gilas teammates who are playing in overseas leagues like Kai, Kouame, Thirdy, Dwight Ramos, Baltazar, etc.,for Gilas training & international games.

Having trained & played together with Gilas for a considerable period of time while they were still amateurs, these players already have an established chemistry within themselves & of course the familiarity with the nature of the FIBA game. These players would just need some sort of "refresher" which would come in handy.

So this isn't like the "hugot" system that we have been doing in the past. Basically, this is what most countries in the world have been doing for years or even decades.
 
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It isn't really rocket science, the key is regular full-time play vs legit size , world level tier talent using mainly FIBA rules.

So the more players and the more time and games you expose these national teams prospects to play these games the better.

So your options are for national team.players to get these exposure to 1st tier level are
1. When they play for the national team ( realistically this is limited to like a month per year )
2. Play for a club or school overseas vs 1st tier world level players
3. Improve the domestic leagues competition exposure to have taller legit size players (imports ) and use FIBA rules .

Yun lang talaga, that's your only options.
So basically the less you have for any 3 , determines how good national team you have. And one can clearly see the national teams that have more of any of the 3 are better. Again it's not rocket science. "Better exposure =better players a=better national team
 
our biggest companies are banking institutions. if only one of these giants would finance a Manila-based NBL team like the defunct SG Slingers, it would mean more high level competition for Filipino NT prospects. business-wise, it's generally not a bad business deal, especially if they're establishing offshore banking units in the asia pacific region. multinational financial service companies like mastercard and visa sponsor sports teams.
 
^^
This is point 2.Play for a club or school overseas vs 1st tier world level players
It's one of the reasons NZ is successful..
Webster’s retention – he is arguably New Zealand’s best basketballer not named Steven Adams – on top of the recent signing of leading young Kiwi bigs Yanni Wetzell and Sam Timmins steers the Breakers in an important direction.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketb...ps-star-tai-webster-returns-on-new-2year-deal
 
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