Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[DAdmiral2]

The thing to note unlike other federations head , Yao , Boucher who are real basketball minds , the SBP Heads are NOT, they really do not have the mindset of what's best for the sport and development, they are conglomerates with commercial interests. So essentially they are BOBO in the basketball field, many of you here know the value more of a Philips over a Junmar. In their eyes they see a 6 time PBA legend vs a college student . LoL

 

[DAdmiral2]

Ito lang,,, if you were to present a proposal on the merits of investing money to naturalize Kouame or Brownlee it would look like this :

A. Brownlee , , 3 years max serviceability, (we have a pool of ineligibles, Clarkson, Harper jr etc who can serve as NP currently and in the future , note our ineligibles are mostly Brownlee size not centers over 6'10)

B. Kouame- 12 years serviceability , he fills a need at center that we have little ineligibles who can fill , Kouame cause of his basketball heritage and age is is a realistic option to be exempted.

Now anyone with half a brain , think strategically which is the better use of time and money investment ? C'mon this is pang grade 1..

now obviously this is already done, but look at the future moving forward, would you invest in a 35 yr old 6' 5 import to naturalize via congress, or would you have development program to attract youth 7 foot centers like Tolentino , African kids and bring them as teenagers to the Philippines to eventually naturalize them.. isip lang , this is basic investment development planning 101 ...

 

[Brown Bones2]

If I where SBP, i will push for Kouame to get an exemption, he fits the bill. He’s been playing here in Pinas ( tagal na ) and most people in his community can easily relate to him.

 

[cocoyg2]

Don't expect SBP to file fil-for youngsters for exemption as locals. They wouldn't risk losing them to foreign leagues (B. League). They'll probably file for exemption once they're in the PBA.

 

[DAdmiral2]

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba...ba-basketball-world-cup-a793-20230526-fbfirst


Meanwhile this is what they're thinking, not realizing that both Kouame and Philipps have higher chances . But they won't try the two , but will Brownlee..

Sige Vargas , self interest pa the more .

At least they recognize No blood Brownlee naturalized via congress Brownlee has a better chance than entnicity Pinoy Clarkson with no residency.

And here is the thing , Brownlee after 3 years will be useless , sayang sa pabor ng sec general

 

[DAdmiral2]

BTW in my opinion it's easier to get a FIBA exception than it is to naturalized via congress, 3 NP in 12 years, while over 10 FIBA exceptions in 12 years. understand the implications of this in terms of strategy approach

 

[DAdmiral2]

Honestly it's blatant incompetence negligence if they apply for Brownlee exceptions and not Kouame's

 

[zuma1692]

While I do agree for a long term program Kouame is the more viable option for exception, let us first look at the context.. what they are talking about is the NOW.. what is best and possible NOW.. and if we can both have brownlee and clarkson at the same time WHY NOT.. un lang naman eh.. let's not overreact that it is kabobohan in SBPs part.. NOW- what can a kouame contribute when we have sotto, edu, fajardo, japeth? the same actually.. yes in the long run kouame is desperately needed. but again we are talking about the NOW.. and with clarkson and brownlee, we have additional offensive firepower at the guard and wing area.. BTW, haven't we been talking for the longest time that what we are lacking is actually a good wing player..

see i am not against localizing ange.. in fact i am all in for it.. but let us put everything into context first.. it is the NOW we are talking about.. with a scottie thompson, jordan clarkson, justin brownlee, AJ Edu (assuming he can be at least 70% serviceable) or Japeth and kai sotto.. except for AJ Edu, all of them can shoot anywhere on the court.. AJ before was a rim protector and add kai in the mix.. plus brownlee and scottie are decent defenders.. clarkson, while defense is suspect, is a superior scorer in this level not to mention brownlee..

not to menton the likes of Malonzo, Parks, Dwight, CJ Perez (hoping he is focused and consistent)

 

[ja.he2]

While I do agree for a long term program Kouame is the more viable option for exception, let us first look at the context.. what they are talking about is the NOW.. what is best and possible NOW.. and if we can both have brownlee and clarkson at the same time WHY NOT.. un lang naman eh.. let's not overreact that it is kabobohan in SBPs part.. NOW- what can a kouame contribute when we have sotto, edu, fajardo, japeth? the same actually.. yes in the long run kouame is desperately needed. but again we are talking about the NOW.. and with clarkson and brownlee, we have additional offensive firepower at the guard and wing area.. BTW, haven't we been talking for the longest time that what we are lacking is actually a good wing player..

see i am not against localizing ange.. in fact i am all in for it.. but let us put everything into context first.. it is the NOW we are talking about.. with a scottie thompson, jordan clarkson, justin brownlee, AJ Edu (assuming he can be at least 70% serviceable) or Japeth and kai sotto.. except for AJ Edu, all of them can shoot anywhere on the court.. AJ before was a rim protector and add kai in the mix.. plus brownlee and scottie are decent defenders.. clarkson, while defense is suspect, is a superior scorer in this level not to mention brownlee..

not to menton the likes of Malonzo, Parks, Dwight, CJ Perez (hoping he is focused and consistent)

Now, Junemar is already old, super slow and a liability in defense. Now, Japeth is also old and still inconsistent. People still believe that these two can produce at the world level? With Kouame and Mike Philips, you will have two young athletic and rebounding bigmen with decent defense

​​​​​​For me, have all Kouame, Philips, Clarkson and Brownlee be included in the 24-man pool.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Sorry plain and simple it's BOBO, that's of course if the SBP has a professional framework for evaluating making good decisions.

if the decision makers has to justify their decision to a board they would fail miserably.

Here are few factors that have to be considered.
1. Naturalizing via congress is actually very rare and costly ( we've only had 3 in past 12 years, this is far from an instant noodle thing

2. Despite Kai and AJ presence, Gilas still has a waterloo at center , we're significantly light at center.. Especially long term, AJ and Kai are not certain long term available (AJ may retire sooner then expected due to injury)

3. Kouame serviceability is 12 years, Brownlee is max 3.

4. Most of our good potential ineligibles , Harper Jr etc are Brownlee size and role

5. The WC while once in a generation event is just 1 event (don't put all eggs in 1 event and break the bank for the future ), and objectively analysis even if we had Brownlee there is no guarantee we will qualify for the Olympics..

This decision would never pass if assessed by a board thst had a framework ceiteria on valiue assessment. Unfortunately that's to much to expect from the incompetence of SBP

 

[carmelo72]

If you have billions to spend being logical would be the least of your concerns, you would want results NOW. Reason why industry leaders (top guys) are not doctors, lawyers and field experts because these types would only go for what's logical and reasonable. Great leaders have the balls to go against what is perceived to be the logical choice, they're bold and have an outside the box solutions that wouldnt resonate to experts. If they lobby for the exemption of Brownlee and fail/succeed, who can say that it would be the last? or a waste of effort? If they throw enough money (everyone has a prize) they sure will do it again for something beyond reason. I'm pretty sure ideas to file for exemption for Philipps etc have been mentioned but for NOW its not enough they will only lose these players to BLeague anyways Lol If Im RSA or MVP, im old and filthy rich I say give me the results NOW not in 5-10 years. That fellas are the mentality we're seeing.
And its not BOBO when their thinking is just beyond your comprehension simply because they have the resources that you have no experience to speak of.

 

[zuma1692]

Again, from my post, I am ALL IN for localizing Ange Kouame.. and in fact i am for the sacking of Al Panlilio and Chot Reyes because I think Panlilio is not a good fit and incompetent and Chot Reyes, while I have admired and respected what he did during the 2013-2014 FIBA season his time is up, but that is another issue.. what i am saying is now it is ok for brownlee to be localized.. he deserves it to be honest.. he has been in the country, played in the country and loved the country (well he is lucky that he is with a crowd favorite ginebra san miguel).. do you think if we loby for 2-3 players to be exempted, would that be ok or baka sobra na.. one at a time lang..

cge I ask you this, if the plan works, that only for this World cup 2023, brownlee becomes local and he and clarkson can play at the same time, will you complain? aayaw ba kayo? because me I am fine with it.. then the following years, work on the other ineligibles exemption cases, besides pasok naman sila sa criteria right?

I recognize this is a marketing ploy.. PURELY marketing.. because in this time and age marketing is important.. but are we really sacrificing WINNING by this marketing/personal interest plan? again, JUST FOR THIS WORLD CUP 2023! NOW.. not FUTURE.. NOT IN THE YEARS TO COME.. BUT NOW!

I am not against localizing our young guys in philips and kouame.. what i am just saying is NOW.. sorry i needed to emphasis NOW.. reality is there is short term and long term goals.. but again I am for firing Panlilio and chot because the long term is questionable with them at the helm..

BUT NOW, i don't think there is harm in trying to lobby for brownlee to be local.. AGAIN, I cannot emphasize it more.. NOW!!!!!

 

[reamily2]

I cant take a word from Ricky Vargas as a valid statement..didnt he know how many naturalized japanese that has been playing in japan for a decade now.. buo na big man roation nila if they use his argument..

 

[IPC2]

I'm looking at the Phillips and Ange exemptions this way. Rim protection, length, size, hustle, and interior defense at the 5 is a massive need, 'di ba? It's a need not just for the future, it's a massive need NOW. AJ's health is an issue, Kai is not really known for defense, though he can block some shots, Japeth's 36, and June Mar's become a two-way liability. Honestly, I'll take Mike and Ange over June Mar at this point, just because they have more to give NOW.

 

[zuma1692]

Guys, that is why it is called EXEMPTION... because it is out of the rules.. and out of the norm.. and clearly brownlee is out of the rules and out of the norm.. for those Japanese guys, it is their call.. they could if they want to but they chose not to..

dba what is really stopping lobbying for localization of players like brownlee? again EXEMPTION sya eh.. there is no real standard for it.. you just have to present a clear business case.. of course with certain parameters pa ren.. he acquired citizenship CHECK, he has been playing domestic PBA basketball exculsively for Ginebra YEARLY since 2016 CHECK.. family has been residing here already CHECK.. mukhang pasok naman for the basic parameters.. then you present your case as EXEMPTION..

kelangan ba there is blood race connection? as previously discussed mukhang that is not a major factor.. kelangan ba formative years like from ages 12-18 lived in the country and played basketball in the country? i think that is a good factor but not the be all and end all..

so yes, ricky vargas is crazy i do agree.. but just looking at the case of brownlee PWEDE.. un lang naman eh.. it can be considered and worth a try.. will you spend a lot of money i don't think so..so why not try? dba?

does this mean we are shutting the door for the likes of kouame and philipps to not be localized? a resounding NO!!!! that is still on the table..

when was the last time a naturalized player albeit a local player scored 40 points despite a loss (well panalo na sana if iskati made the free throws) against a good asian team (Jordan) - Justin Brownlee - single handedly brought us back in the game..

 

[DAdmiral2]

Resources are not limited to one's financial resources (e.g SMC), there other type of resources, and one of them is "goodwill favors "(for a lack of better term), by using the 1 favor card exception bonus we have as host on a 35 year old 6'5 player isn't wise prudent use of a super rare scarce resource (bonus exception as host ). . Do note the only reason Brownlee is a possibility for exception (based on his background and FIBA principles) is simply because we are host and can allotted leeway. .
essentially use you scarce limited resource wisely that has long term impact. Not 2 or 3 years), note we have to earn a world cup birth for 2027, relying on a 38 Brownlee for our bonus favor 1 exception, is simply reckless

Besides the likelihood of Brownlee being rejected is so much greater than Kouame or Phillipps. It's not like you can simply ask Sec gen please consider wholesale exempt all 3 . Nether can you go back 6 months later after getting Brownlee exception and say Paki sama si Koaume, one more favor please...Sec .
believe me if we get Brownlee expempted, Gilas and SBP will essentially be put on notice , as a federation using lobbying favors for hosting to full max

A Brownlee exception will put us back in terms of reputation for future dialogue for exceptions.. guaranteed..


go ahead go all in for this August, and trade away yoiir future for the.next decade , expect misery for the next decade . And why? Cause we failed to essentially plan.. and went for thr quick reward to win without building and developing.., sorry ha , that's not my definition of what a federation focus and mandate is. Who cares.if you can hire mercenaries , parang tayo Cambodia as host in a sense taking advantage for quick wins, and for what , bano pa rin yung level ng basketball development natin.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

As I've said, we can use our 2023 FIBA World Cup hosting as a leverage for FIBA exemption on several players like Philipps, Kouame, Balungay.

Yup..its all about playing our cards on our advantage and theirs nothing wrong on it for as long as there is no bribery nor dirty politics involves.

 

[carmelo72]

There are top exec meetings (for limited favors) and also RSA-MvP level of conversations (unlimited)

 

[DAdmiral2]

question, has any country been given an exemption for just a POTENTIAL player? just asking.. and when i say potential player, a player who now is not yet serviceable and ready BUT CAN BE (we are not sure) in the future?

What ? This is a regular thing and the real essence of exceptions, giving exceptions to players the federation developed as a youth .
fotu
Gsmber
Zain
Spencer

To name a few , this is what execeptuons are meant to be used for, for development players who essentially meet the essence of confirming allegiance to a country as a youth (demonstrated by getting a passport before 16 or shortly after & residency as a youth)
Using the exception on Brownlee a paid import who moved to a country close to 30 yrs old fully developed in his prime is contrary to essence of the exception guidelines..

 

[DAdmiral2]

That's a terrible decision if use our bonus exception allotted as host (for lack of better term) on Brownlee, note it won't come for free without consequences for the future. Why ? The SBP will be put on notice as abusers of rules , and future dialogue for more genuine exception cases.will be impacted . Big picture it will impact us for the next decade, and to me is no way to build a program.. it doesn't mean anything if we can buy import help we didn't develop to win.

There is no pride in that approach