Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC2]

That tournament proved Pogoy and Troy aren't't NT material anymore. They sucked on defense and can't even shoot decently against SEA level opponents. WTH

Thank goodness guys like Malonzo, Japeth, Carl, and Mason rendered Troy out of consideration for the NT. All of those mentioned at least bring a translatable skill to FIBA.

As for Pogoy, that SEA Games should have ended his Gilas career with how poorly he played there, but he redeemed himself in the November window on both ends. Still, I'd take Dwight, Parks, Heading, Newsome, Perez, Thirdy, and Abando over him at 2.

 

[thatweirdguy2]

Thank goodness guys like Malonzo, Japeth, Carl, and Mason rendered Troy out of consideration for the NT. All of those mentioned at least bring a translatable skill to FIBA.

As for Pogoy, that SEA Games should have ended his Gilas career with how poorly he played there, but he redeemed himself in the November window on both ends. Still, I'd take Dwight, Parks, Heading, Newsome, Perez, Thirdy, and Abando over him at 2.

I have no idea how he was even considered in that window after his SEAG stint when we have tons of options then. I'm still sour at him though and hopefully that's not fools gold and he still has a lot left in his tank.

 

[IPC2]

I have no idea how he was even considered in that window after his SEAG stint when we have tons of options then. I'm still sour at him though and hopefully that's not fools gold and he still has a lot left in his tank.

At this point, though, I think we should retire him for younger options. Dwight, Parks, Heading, Abando, and Thirdy should be enough as our best at SG after the WC. Heck, there may be better options than the ones I mentioned (bar Dwight and Parks) in the future.

 

[FilWelsh2]

I had discussion with a fellow poster here about 10 years ago, he highlighted one of the major factor why PBA or our local players has lagged behind from their counterparts in neighboring Asian countries. It is the over-reliance of PBA ball clubs with their import reinforcements. Back then he compared the stats and production of import players in Asian leagues (China, South Korea, Lebanon, Japan and Philippines). He noted imports in Philippines on average even in 2-import conference are having stats like 35 PPG and 10 RPG. What compounded more is the height restrictions rule for imports. In in other Asian countries, their imports are tap without height restrictions or even there are 2-3 of them imports in a particular team. Their individual stats is not as high as imports in PBA.

This trend stunted development of our local players consequently our our national team. Maybe this also a reason why there is an influx number of Fil- foreign players as some of our local players due to their teams’ over dependence with foreign reinforcements has lost their skills and their confidence. Well, I remember that it is typical that PBA imports even averaged more than 40 points a game. If the team’s second import is norming 30 PPG and then the remaining 20-30 PPG distributed to local players.

Do I think imports in PBA are better than in imports in CBA (China), B.League (Japan), KBL (South Korea)? Nope I don’t think so. As a matter of fact the quality of imports in CBA is in the same level as that of EuroLeague imports. Salary is what draw these imports mostly Americans to strut their skills in China.

So what is the reason why these over-reliance of PBA teams to their imports? I think Filipinos’ issue is our inferiority complex is much worse than our Asian neighbors.

 

[DAdmiral2]

The reason why there is a big gap between imports in the PBA vs locals as compared to other leagues like the NBL or even the UAAP comes down to "market forces".

let me explain , what is offered to UAAP/ NBL locals is at par or even higher than their respective imports. So essentially if the PBA only offered contracts to imports similar to the rules of locals, there will be no super imports, why ? No way will a NBA caliber player enter the local PBA draft and accept the rookie PBA contract deals , no way. furthermore a player like Kai Sotto cannot enter the PBA on a import short term mercenary contract . Like SMC can't just call up Kai for the playoffs for $ 100k .

this is what rules and policies does to roster composition , essentially teams and players are incentivised and make moves based on the rules put in place.

 

[IPC2]

Snow's latest take says that SMC should take over if we lose again to Indonesia.

https://twitter.com/snowbadua/status/1654768156727197696?t=8NTyZyJTAO9d44y0GhZR3w&s=19

The reason is that SMC is Filipino-owned. Kinda against the fact that Pangilinan is an employee of Salim, which is Indonesian. Kinda implying something or what.

Sorry, but again, nationality and resources aside, what recent indicators (in the past 6-7 years) show that SMC will contribute to the NT program's progress? They haven't developed an international-caliber player with Letran, probably except for Abando. With the eligible pros, they've honed just Malonzo and Scottie as capable NT players in the past 6-7 years. Considering the stable they have, kinda alarming. Plus, Boss ain't exactly the most open to progress out there, just play with those he trusts, not much foreign input (which we need to supplement our program) apart from Cone.

 

[IPC2]

For the identity, we like to pride on our physicality, hustle, and propensity to break down defenders 1-on-1 and drive to the basket. We have to utilize that. Harness the physicality without fouling, and use hustle to rotate on defense.
We just need to add some elements from the Tab team, like discipline and effort on rotations, height and versatility on defense (like 6'5"-6'6" SFs like Navarro, SGs like Dwight, and 6'7"-6'8" versatile fours like Balti), using shot creators as a tool instead of as a crutch, some off-ball movement, and passing to a guy with an open shot.

That way, we might be able to combine those elements into a winning formula.

Hopefully, we can translate this identity to the senior team. Hustle hard on defense, avoid fouls, and be versatile, even with our taller teams.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Hopefully, we can translate this identity to the senior team. Hustle hard on defense, avoid fouls, and be versatile, even with our taller teams.

At least for the SEA team, I think this version of bigs Philipps and Standhardinger defensively/hustle is much better than last year version of Junmar etc

the length of Rosser and Oftana at wings should help as well as compared to Matthew Wright, Roger Pogoy...in 2022.
We have to change our mindset in.forming teams , are supposedly super stars are really not what's best .. and really in the context of FIBA they're really not stars to begin with

 

[IPC2]

At least for the SEA team, I think this version of bigs Philipps and Standhardinger defensively/hustle is much better than last year version of Junmar etc

the length of Rosser and Oftana at wings should help as well as compared to Matthew Wright, Roger Pogoy...in 2022.
We have to change our mindset in.forming teams , are supposedly super stars are really not what's best .. and really in the context of FIBA they're really not stars to begin with

Compared to last year's lineup where the only decent defensive players were Thirdy, Navarro, Tungcab, and maybe Lopez (the latter three of whom were DNPs in the Indonesia game). Jeez.

I think we're better off forming a more versatile defensive team, with only a few scorers as firepower.

 

[IPC2]

BTW the addition of Mason , Lastimosia and Phillips at least has a development angle for future Gilas prospects

Yeah, at least. Hope we have the same developmental angle in future SEA Games. In addition, get young amateur players like Lopez, Belmonte (if he develops), Briones, Spencer, Pablo, Demisana, Lazaro, Schonny, Bayla, Konov, ineligibles like M. Phillips, Koon, Ballungay, Lucero for defensive versatility, and talents like Mason.

Plus, I hope we use the SEA Games and maybe some FIBA windows and youth tournaments to inculcate what I think should be the team identity for Gilas. Hustle hard and make timely rotations on D, defend physically without fouling, fifind the open guy, break down opponents when needed.

 

[IPC2]

Of all the pinoys abroad, who do yall want to see with Gilas:

Personally my top 4 are Dwight, Parks, Tamayo and Sotto. Edu is my fifth but I wouldn't lock him in even Tamayo if Mason shows up big. The Ravenas are there since they are loyal but if they get cut well they get cut. Abando or RJ? Abando over Dave right? Also what about Matthew Wright?

Congratulations to Abando and Anyang KGC for winning the chip. SK Referees with the 7 game extension lol. Parang PBA lang, anybody's ball game in game 7. There was no reason Spellman couldn't play this bully ball the entire series.


PG: RJ Abarrientos, Robert Bolick, Scottie Thompson
SG: Dwight Ramos, Ray Parks, Rhenz Abando
SF: Justin Brownlee, Carl Tamayo
PF: AJ Edu, Isaac Go, Mason Amos
C: Kai Sotto, Japeth Aguilar

I know the question is about Pinoys abroad but imo we have some local talent that can hang with the overseas boys.

No love for Jamie Malonzo?
I'll take Malonzo over Isaac Go.

Yeah, I'll also take Malonzo over Go. As much as I love Go's effort and IQ, he's not good enough for the NT. Hope he recovers well, and has a good FIBA career.

Here's my best local 11 (when healthy) as of the moment:

Guards: Scottie, Dwight, Parks, Heading, RJ/Bolick
Wings: Malonzo, Navarro
Tweeners: Carl/Mason
Bigs: Kai, Japeth, AJ Edu

Kinda versatile enough on defense, while having firepower on offense. And there are four or five PBA players in Japeth, Malonzo, Scottie, Navarro, and Bolick, and the latter two are free agents now. Reflects the way the PBA is close to being ignored, having only a few active players on the lineup.

 

[IPC2]

i see no reason why we cant win gold and still develop young prospect. sending a youth team without veteran help will be like the current Houston rockets. full of talent no direction. send half youth and half good veterans who are ok with limited mins but can handle playing in the end game if needed, would be nice. youngster learn and get to actually play, but wont be too pressured in case they end up in a situation they are not familiar with.

this should be the template, having a young team with no veteran leadership could lead to kids developing bad habits, and a losing culture like Sacramento before the beam or the current rockets. Veterans could aid coaches in instilling discipline and playing in pressure situations. But yeah as Ja.he and IPC gad mentioned, there should be balance.

too bad sbp is too focused on win now at the expense of development. sabagay we’re hosting the worldcup, better not be embarrassed in our home turf. But after WC, I hope that SBP prioritize youth movement

if long hair is taking over.... he isnt known to prioritise youth at all.

We'd be lucky if we get another Kai-level, 20-and-under player, whether homegrown or overseas-based (FIBA eligible), 'cause that's the only time that his leadership will consider injecting youth to his PBA-centric future NTs. How I hope that I'll be proven wrong.

​Exactly why I have a bad feeling about SMC taking over SBP. Too much on short-term gain (and probably making the PBA look good), less on youth development.

Ano naman ang incentive ng developing youth for abroad? That means less prospects for SMC and the PBA. I think Rds might have had a point here when he talked about incentive.

 

[reamily2]

I hope pocket tournament plan for world cup push through with 2 Philippine teams..hoping young guns like Mike P, Mason and AJ edu get burn

 

[DAdmiral2]

Gilas with Kai, AJ , Japeth and possibly Philipps , isn't considered small anymore

 

[IPC2]

Australia is a basketball powerhouse of course NBL, its domestic league, will have a lot of WC players. Japan is a low level compared to Australia but its domestic league, the B league, has players who will play the WC. Of course its own players. As you said, some imports are WC players, so this is a good indication that it has a high level. Note however, that it has some US imports that could probably play for other WC countries if they could. I would say the B league is punching above its country's weight class.

In a way I like how JP guys are not recruiting NBA caliber for its NP slot. Instead they are spending their money to make their domestic league more internationally competitive. And of course they send their better players abroad to train or to play in superior leagues. If we had JP's money we would have recruited the best NBA player we could afford. Somebody better than Blatche. It's embarassing but I admire JP's handling of this over ours.

Well, that's all we know. Just recruit the best money can buy instead of investing in the development of homegrown players overseas and developing a good identity for our team based on how we play the sport as well as adopting good practices from overseas. We have little concept of development because ayun, we want an immediate ROI.

MVP or SMC, it's the same old shit.

 

[Rds2]

Gilas with Kai, AJ , Japeth and possibly Philipps , isn't considered small anymore

First, let's not count Philipps yet. Until, I see an exemption or a recognition from Fiba of his eligibility I will not include him. That is one weak frontline. Japeth is getting gimpier by the moment. AJ has improved but until we see him again in Fiba we don't know how much we can expect from him. Kai on the other hand still has issues with stamina and strength. Sorry if I am pessimistic. Until I see them play well against WC level competition I don't have much confidence in that frontline.

Some might say we almost defeated Lebanon with Kai, Japeth and JC as NP but do you think we can win against them with Omari Spellman?

 

[thatweirdguy2]

First, let's not count Philipps yet. Until, I see an exemption or a recognition from Fiba of his eligibility I will not include him. That is one weak frontline. Japeth is getting gimpier by the moment. AJ has improved but until we see him again in Fiba we don't know how much we can expect from him. Kai on the other hand still has issues with stamina and strength. Sorry if I am pessimistic. Until I see them play well against WC level competition I don't have much confidence in that frontline.

Some might say we almost defeated Lebanon with Kai, Japeth and JC as NP but do you think we can win against them with Omari Spellman?

The fact that old man Japs is still in the rotation should tell us how thin our frontline is. AJ is still a question mark at this point, while ATM Phillips is still ineligible. Kai still has the same issues. Personally I prefer that we get an NBA caliber big as an NP to play with and alongside Kai to cover his weaknesses but then again SBP would probably want to milk JC as much as they can

 

[DAdmiral2]

Assuming Phillips is excepted ( a big if I admit ) , with Kai, Kouame and AJ , that's 4 decent 23 year old below bigs.
yeah not world level elite , but a lot better than weve had in previous years

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Yeah, I'll also take Malonzo over Go. As much as I love Go's effort and IQ, he's not good enough for the NT. Hope he recovers well, and has a good FIBA career.

Here's my best local 11 (when healthy) as of the moment:

Guards: Scottie, Dwight, Parks, Heading, RJ/Bolick
Wings: Malonzo, Navarro
Tweeners: Carl/Mason
Bigs: Kai, Japeth, AJ Edu

Kinda versatile enough on defense, while having firepower on offense. And there are four or five PBA players in Japeth, Malonzo, Scottie, Navarro, and Bolick, and the latter two are free agents now. Reflects the way the PBA is close to being ignored, having only a few active players on the lineup.

I think Isaac Go's inclusion to the Gilas pool a few years ago was mostly because of his familiarity with coach Tab's system since Tab was the Gilas head coach at the time. But looking at Go's physical attributes & skills, there's really nothing special about Go. Firstly, he's not athletic. Secondly, he's slow for the 4 spot & undersized at the 5 spot. Lastly, I think we now have other better options at the 4 spot right now like Baltazar, Tamayo, Mason Amos, Malonzo. I won't include Mike Philipps since he's not FIBA eligible (at least not yet).

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Assuming Phillips is excepted ( a big if I admit ) , with Kai, Kouame and AJ , that's 4 decent 23 year old below bigs.
yeah not world level elite , but a lot better than weve had in previous years

​

I say, our available talents right now at the 3, 4 & 5 spots are upgrades to what we had before. I'm talking about the likes of Dwight Ramos, Malonzo, Oftana, Navarro, Tamayo, Baltazar, Mason Amos, AJ Edu & Kai.

I think kung materyales lang ang pag-uusapan, our current pool of talents could at least match up (or even be better) with the golden generation Iran national team led by Haddadi, Bahrami & Kamrani during the late 2000's & early 2010's.