Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[DAdmiral2]

It's not mere residency, remember it's an exception to an age cuttof rule (u16 passport). Without saying it outright, the unwritten guideline principle is residency and domestic play should commnnce as a teenager, NOT when a player is a pro in his mid 20s ( please do not cite exception to the principle like citing Jawato, that's beside the point).
Exceptions are generally for the collegiate players like Slaughter, Newsome who established residency and adopted the country as teenagers not for pros like Primgle , Ross etc .. it's a simple logical principle of basketball heritage ( where one was developed)
The one's most commonly exempted (passport after 16 yrs old) are those who are developed under the Youth team program (U19, U17 national youth team representatives, Batang Gilas has 4 cases of exception already who fall under this.

It's really a stretch to exempt a person who established residency as a pro in his mid 20s, this goes against the principles of adoption of a country for genuine allegiance to the country reasons and "development heritage ".

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I think Rhenz Abando would be ripe for a Gilas call up post 2023 World Cup. The kid has been playing impressively in the KBL. He has made some remarkable improvements in his game, his ball handling in particular. I think if this kid continues to improve in his shooting, ball handling & defense, he will be very useful for the national team as a shooting guard

 

[JOI2dWorld2]

9 Yrs. in the Domestic League in Germany (2006 to 2015), in the PBA 2017 to 2022 as of the moment and that is 5 yrs.

i think in between that 9 years span he played college basketball in the US, but he really started young as those who were drafted in the 2006 pba rookie draft were already near 40 years old while Kelly and Arwind are already 40 plus,

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Another excellent game from Abando, finishing with a scorching 30 pts & some shotblocks.

 

[bluenote492]

I think Rhenz Abando would be ripe for a Gilas call up post 2023 World Cup. The kid has been playing impressively in the KBL. He has made some remarkable improvements in his game, his ball handling in particular. I think if this kid continues to improve in his shooting, ball handling & defense, he will be very useful for the national team as a shooting guard

Him & RJ should be given a chance to prove themselves. We need to surround JC with shooters.

 

[RedMetal2]

Hopefully Philips, Balunggay, Luzero can qualify for the exception in the future.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Hopefully Philips, Balunggay, Luzero can qualify for the exception in the future.

I think the 1st two Philips , Kai and Koon (after 5 years from 1st freshmen year ) are very plausible , Luzero is unlikely due to age of start of residency and acquisition of passport ( remember is an exemption for a age cut off rule)

the other likely prospects are those who represent batang gilas but got passport after 16 , ( two this year )

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I see Abando to be in the same vein of Dondon Hontiveros, James Yap and Lordy Tugade - 6'2-6'3 players with high leaping-slashing ability and good perimeter offense.

I'll take an Abando with the shooting of a prime Jeff Chan with a slightly better defense than Jeff. This could happen 2 to 3 years from now. Which means 2 to 3 years of an opportunity to polish/develop/improve his overall skills while being exposed in Korean basketball & FIBA basketball as well (That is why it is necessary that Abando gets the reps playing for Gilas in FIBA games as soon as possible).

Though Abando wasn't that impressive during his stint with Gilas in this year's FIBA Asia Cup, I think he didn't do that badly for a 24-year old first-timer with the national team.

Let's put it this way, when Jeff Chan played with Gilas for the 1st time in the 2022 Jones Cup he was impressive. But Chan was already 29 yrs old at that time. I wonder how Chan would have performed with Gilas when he was 24 years old? I say he probably won't be that impressive. The same goes with iskati Thompson who is playing very well right now with Gilas. But Iskati is 29 yrs old already. I wonder how Iskati would have played with Gilas 5 years ago?

 

[thatweirdguy2]

I'll take an Abando with the shooting of a prime Jeff Chan with a slightly better defense than Jeff. This could happen 2 to 3 years from now. Which means 2 to 3 years of an opportunity to polish/develop/improve his overall skills while being exposed in Korean basketball & FIBA basketball as well (That is why it is necessary that Abando gets the reps playing for Gilas in FIBA games as soon as possible).

Though Abando wasn't that impressive during his stint with Gilas in this year's FIBA Asia Cup, I think he didn't do that badly for a 24-year old first-timer with the national team.

Let's put it this way, when Jeff Chan played with Gilas for the 1st time in the 2022 Jones Cup he was impressive. But Chan was already 29 yrs old at that time. I wonder how Chan would have performed with Gilas when he was 24 years old? I say he probably won't be that impressive. The same goes with iskati Thompson who is playing very well right now with Gilas. But Iskati is 29 yrs old already. I wonder how Iskati would have played with Gilas 5 years ago?

We need someone with Chan's shooting badly. If he could replicate that with some added defense and athleticism that's already a good upgrade. Chan isn't that tall and athletic. He couldn't drive or do anything else besides space the floor but he was huge for us. And like you said already slipping when he played for us. Abando can do a lot more and is 2x the athlete Chan is.

 

[C2Hamm2]

we need a shooter who can somehow defend... and Trollano's name isnt mentioned?
and Tuffin?
Heading is over 6'1 so depending on the shoes should be 6'2 to 6'3. Most likely Panlilio et al are in gone 2 -3 yrs, why if he not considered?
Wright isnt a defensive player but if we compare to Jeff, should be the same or better.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

We need someone with Chan's shooting badly. If he could replicate that with some added defense and athleticism that's already a good upgrade. Chan isn't that tall and athletic. He couldn't drive or do anything else besides space the floor but he was huge for us. And like you said already slipping when he played for us. Abando can do a lot more and is 2x the athlete Chan is.

I have this feeling that a 24-year old Abando is better than a 24-year old Jeff Chan. But I believe Chan is smarter than Abando.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

we need a shooter who can somehow defend... and Trollano's name isnt mentioned?
and Tuffin?
Heading is over 6'1 so depending on the shoes should be 6'2 to 6'3. Most likely Panlilio et al are in gone 2 -3 yrs, why if he not considered?
Wright isnt a defensive player but if we compare to Jeff, should be the same or better.

Nah!!! I beg to disagree.

Gilas Jeff Chan is significantly better than Gilas Matthew Wright. Honestly, prior to his Gilas stint I expected Wright to be better than Chan. I was wrong.

 

[C2Hamm2]

Nah!!! I beg to disagree.

Gilas Jeff Chan is significantly better than Gilas Matthew Wright. Honestly, prior to his Gilas stint I expected Wright to be better than Chan. I was wrong.

i specifically pointed out the D "Wright isnt a defensive player but if we compare to Jeff, should be the same or better." matt's D compared to Jeff is same or better. how is Chan significantly better than Wright in D? Jeff is a better catch and shoot player. Matt was not used as such plus, if you look at his non-PBA games (HS, college, French league, and current Japan league) he is better off ball player than just sitting on corners.

we are talking about the now. now that we see we need shooters in the team. who do we consider as possible late addition to help Parks with 3pt shooting for the team? in pure catch and shoot, closest to Chan is Tuffin but they played in different league so I cant really gauge Ken if he plays under CCR\CTC system. Matt and Jordan is same that they are better moving around without the ball than purely taking kickouts. Advantage of Heading is he actually had experience being lead guard in college. also has experience playing along side a score first player in college. that is an advantage because if they do get considered, it means playing alongside Clarkson whose main weapon is to score.

i dont know if Bolick or Tio would be an upgrade. are there more shooters in the PBA?

 

[JAMSKIE2]

i specifically pointed out the D "Wright isnt a defensive player but if we compare to Jeff, should be the same or better." matt's D compared to Jeff is same or better. how is Chan significantly better than Wright in D? Jeff is a better catch and shoot player. Matt was not used as such plus, if you look at his non-PBA games (HS, college, French league, and current Japan league) he is better off ball player than just sitting on corners.

we are talking about the now. now that we see we need shooters in the team. who do we consider as possible late addition to help Parks with 3pt shooting for the team? in pure catch and shoot, closest to Chan is Tuffin but they played in different league so I cant really gauge Ken if he plays under CCR\CTC system. Matt and Jordan is same that they are better moving around without the ball than purely taking kickouts. Advantage of Heading is he actually had experience being lead guard in college. also has experience playing along side a score first player in college. that is an advantage because if they do get considered, it means playing alongside Clarkson whose main weapon is to score.

i dont know if Bolick or Tio would be an upgrade. are there more shooters in the PBA?

I meant comparing the overall impact of Wright & Chan with Gilas, Chan obviously made more impact. But yeah, if we are talking about defense, they are just about equal or maybe Wright is even a bit better (Sorry I thought you were referring to overall aspects, you were just referring to defense lang pala).

I believe that in terms of overall skills which should include ball handling, passing, defense & even court savvy, I think Wright has the edge over a prime Jeff Chan. Unfortunately however, such facets in Wright's game has hardly translated in the FIBA game.

 

[k3ttch2]

I think the 1st two Philips , Kai and Koon (after 5 years from 1st freshmen year ) are very plausible , Luzero is unlikely due to age of start of residency and acquisition of passport ( remember is an exemption for a age cut off rule)

the other likely prospects are those who represent batang gilas but got passport after 16 , ( two this year )

There is some precedent for a case like Lucero’s. Thailand’s Moses Morgan and Freddie Lish were recently granted exemption by FIBA.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

I think the 1st two Philips , Kai and Koon (after 5 years from 1st freshmen year ) are very plausible , Luzero is unlikely due to age of start of residency and acquisition of passport ( remember is an exemption for a age cut off rule)

the other likely prospects are those who represent batang gilas but got passport after 16 , ( two this year )

Hopefully Philips, Balunggay, Luzero can qualify for the exception in the future.

There is some precedent for a case like Lucero’s. Thailand’s Moses Morgan and Freddie Lish were recently granted exemption by FIBA.

I think he only acquired his PH Pass when his already 20(?) or before turning 21(?) but I think there is still a small window of hope and the only thing for now is to be actively involve in the domestic leagues just to establish his basketball heritage/immersion in the eyes of the Sec Gen , the lad must also play in the PBA D League maybe 1 to 2 season, PBA 3x3, ABL playing for a Philippine team(other option) and later on for the PBA plus his 2 season stint in the UAAP will not be denied. Hopefully before reaching the age of 28 to 30 yrs. Old he may be considered, same case with BGR which on his case he already played in an official FIBA sanctioned event e.g. 3X3 both local and international, also in the SEA games, the ABL representing the local based team San Miguel Alab Plipinas and now in the PBA via Blackwater and currently with NLEX hoping as well to be consider as a local before reaching the peak age of 30. Another player that has a strong chance are Jason Perkins after a season stint in Valley City State University, a NAIA membered school, came to the Philippines in 2012 completed his collegiate career in DLSU from 2013 to 2016, started playing in the amateur league via PBA D League and started his professional career in 2017, also played for the Philippines via 3X3 and SEA Games 5x5(?) overall that’s already 10 yrs of solid basketball immersion. Therefore the likes of Jayden Harper, Sean Alter and Kate Bobadilla who had acquired(?) their PH Passport after their respective 16th birthday are still possible to recognition as a local in the eyes of FIBA for as long as they are actively and consistently involve in the local and domestic activities for a specific period of time. I think 7 to 8 years or a maximum of 10 yrs. Is fair enough but who knows maybe with a few luck 5 to 6 yrs. For the likes of the Philips bros., CK and KB

 

[C2Hamm2]

I meant comparing the overall impact of Wright & Chan with Gilas, Chan obviously made more impact. But yeah, if we are talking about defense, they are just about equal or maybe Wright is even a bit better (Sorry I thought you were referring to overall aspects, you were just referring to defense lang pala).

I believe that in terms of overall skills which should include ball handling, passing, defense & even court savvy, I think Wright has the edge over a prime Jeff Chan. Unfortunately however, such facets in Wright's game has hardly translated in the FIBA game.

judging from the last window, I actually cant think how to make the team better in terms of personnel. they need players who can do a lot of things in a pretty high level. do we have that, that we havent seen or thought of? for example, this 3pt shooting. the guards and wings from last window, played well in the system they used but would be better if ALL of them can consistently drain the 3. its like, if you do get a 3pt specialist, you might be giving up something that the team needs in another aspect. Ange played for us then, since we will play JC, who will you replace him with? JMF? Chiu or Edu? ok lng naman and it is needed, but whatever Ange gave, its like we need that plus more. not one is to one change of contribution. i guess we will see this last window. Brownlee should mimic what JC would be giving us, so the plays and personnel around him should be more or less same with when we have JC. I dont expect a big change in that aspect. but i would like to see changes on the D specifically because Ange wont be there to help out coming from the bench.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Of course there are precedent exceptions to those commonly exempted, but we really can't use those as the basis of why others will be approved ( at best we can say the player while unlikely to be exempted still has a chance ( yeah i think Kouame while unlikely has at least a better chance than JC etc) .

The point here is the principle that since this is an exemption to a an Age cuttoff rule , it does matter when you got your passport and when you started residency , it's a whole lot different comparing someone who established both as teenagers with someone who only secured both in his 20's , there are levels to this., and BTW there is no explicit cutt off , like must be 19 or younger , cause it's guidelines' for exception not rules . the rule itself is the U16 one

 

[JAMSKIE2]

judging from the last window, I actually cant think how to make the team better in terms of personnel. they need players who can do a lot of things in a pretty high level. do we have that, that we havent seen or thought of? for example, this 3pt shooting. the guards and wings from last window, played well in the system they used but would be better if ALL of them can consistently drain the 3. its like, if you do get a 3pt specialist, you might be giving up something that the team needs in another aspect. Ange played for us then, since we will play JC, who will you replace him with? JMF? Chiu or Edu? ok lng naman and it is needed, but whatever Ange gave, its like we need that plus more. not one is to one change of contribution. i guess we will see this last window. Brownlee should mimic what JC would be giving us, so the plays and personnel around him should be more or less same with when we have JC. I dont expect a big change in that aspect. but i would like to see changes on the D specifically because Ange wont be there to help out coming from the bench.

I think I know where you're coming bro. Good point bro. That is why it is imperative to have 2-way players in the team.

I want to put it this way: A prime Renren Ritualo would be a good asset in the national team as he can drain as many as 4 triples in a span of 10 to 15 mins. I mean if Ritualo gets his shooting rhythm, he can hit as many as 7 triples in a FIBA game which of course would be a game changer. But the problem is, Ritualo is a big liability in defense & he was so undersized at the 2-guard spot. If I have to choose between a prime Ritualo & a Jordan Heading, I'll choose the later. While I see a prime Ritualo to be a more explosive shooter than Heading, the later is a better defender mainly becoz he isn't that undersized at the 2-guard spot.

That is why I believe that a player like Dwight Ramos would always be a significant asset for Gilas. Dwight's 3-pt shooting may not be as good as a Jeff Chan or a Ritualo or a Dondon Hontiveros, but Dwight can do things that neither a Chan nor a Hontiveros or a Ritualo can do with equal effectiveness. Dwight is an overall wingman who can score, shoot, pass, defend, and handle the ball. Dwight is your jack-of-all-trades-master-of-non guy out there.

Another player with an almost (say a poor man's version) Dwight Ramos characteristics & value is Rayray Parks.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

judging from the last window, I actually cant think how to make the team better in terms of personnel. they need players who can do a lot of things in a pretty high level. do we have that, that we havent seen or thought of? for example, this 3pt shooting. the guards and wings from last window, played well in the system they used but would be better if ALL of them can consistently drain the 3. its like, if you do get a 3pt specialist, you might be giving up something that the team needs in another aspect. Ange played for us then, since we will play JC, who will you replace him with? JMF? Chiu or Edu? ok lng naman and it is needed, but whatever Ange gave, its like we need that plus more. not one is to one change of contribution. i guess we will see this last window. Brownlee should mimic what JC would be giving us, so the plays and personnel around him should be more or less same with when we have JC. I dont expect a big change in that aspect. but i would like to see changes on the D specifically because Ange wont be there to help out coming from the bench.

While Clarkson is obviously the better player, I think Brownlee's edge with Gilas in the 6th window over the Clarkson with Gilas in the 4th window is Brownlee's familiarity with his Gilas teammates, his Ginebra teammates in particular -Iskati, Japeth & Malonzo. It is a big plus that Brownlee had already practiced/trained with the Gilas pool for a considerable period of time. That is something that Clarkson didn't have the luxury in his Gilas stint in the 4th window.