Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[IPC2]

Here's a take from Ryan Alba on player utilization overseas: https://twitter.com/_alba__/status/1584936702648672257?s=20&t=wmXtAZujCPr3EyFgfIlj9g

He says that bigger guys (with probably the exception of Carl) are better suited playing locally if money wasn't a point of contention, as it's hard to play over DI/ex-NBA/ex-GLeague level guys in a professional setting.

As for PG's, he says that the best PGs translate well abroad (see Kief and RJ), but Filipino coaches maximize them better.

Frankly, in the PBA, and in the Philippines in general, with the exception of a few coaches and teams, all we know how to develop and maximize are guards, and sometimes post bigs. With taller wings and tweeners kasi, you have to be lucky with coaches to trust you with the offense, or develop into smaller positions, even if you're tall.

In the Philippine setting, among our promising FIBA-eligible tweeners and wings, where we frankly need the most help, Oftana was lucky that he played for Yeng, Balti and Navarro were lucky to have played for Tab, Malonzo was lucky to start with Pido and play under Cone (who knows how to play wings), Arvin was lucky to start with Cone and then play for Pido, and Carl was lucky to have played for Goldwin and Tab. 6'5" Arvin, 6'6" Navarro, 6'5" Oftana, and 6'6" Malonzo were allowed to play wing. 6'7" Balti and 6'8" Carl were allowed to play like tweener forwards, sometimes switching on defense (especially Balti) and having the ball in their hands to create (especially Carl) and shoot, and they remained mobile.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

If you're good, you'll be serviceable, even if you're undersized. That's how LA, Jimmy, Castro, Terrence, Abueva, RDO, and Ping earned their places in the NT, despite being undersized for their positions. They were good.

RJ, I didn't expect to be this good this quickly. Sige, 4 games pa lang, but man, he is setting the KBL on fire. 50% from the field and 43.2% from 3. 8.1 assists per game too, according to Heoball. If he keeps going like this, he's going to earn an NT pool call-up as soon as the February window. SJ naman, solid so far, but could improve his defense and shooting, as he's just a facilitator at this point.

RJ & SJ actually showed some promise during the 3rd window of the 2022 FIBA Asia Cup qualifiers in that 2 games vs. South Korea. I mean for their age & being first timers in the FIBA game, I think they were both impressive. Then came that games vs. Serbia & Dominican Republic in the Olympic Qualifying Tournament in which both point guards struggled against significantly bigger guards of Serbia & DR. Some posters here were quick to malign & conclude that undersized point guards like SJ & RJ would be liabilities & of almost no value in the FIBA game. Its like both these young point guards will just stagnate & will never improve.

The truth is that there are only very few point guards in Asian basketball who are 6-foot-2 & above. Try check the PG's of Japan, Korea, Iran, Lebanon (with the exception of Wael Arakji), Jordan (with the exception of Freddie Ibrahim), Taiwan, Kazakhstan, and let's see if they have lots of 6-foot-2 & above PG's.

Agree with you bro. There are a No. of undersized Pinoy players who had done well in international & FIBA competitions. You have already mentioned some of them. I'd like to add some older players like Alvin Patrimonio (did very well for the RP team in the 1994 Asian Games despite being just a 6-foot-3 power forward), Johnny Abarrientos (a revelation during the 1994 Asian Games), Benjie Paras (who is a 6-foot-5 center for the RP team in the mid-80's & 1990 Asian Games).

 

[Dotch2]

^^ China is obsessed with height like the IBN PHL forumers here. They tried to play 6'9 Sun Yue at point, and marketed him as the Chinese Magic Johnson, but he's just a tall ball handler with no PG playmaking skills. The current tall PG they have is 6'4 Guo Ailun, he is good but he is no Wael Arakji. And China hasnt gotten far with him at the helm.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Another impressive playmaking for 3rdy, 7 assists in his last game. Did older Kiefer shared secrets to his younger bro about passing ang playmaking?

Perhaps.
Does Thirdy becoming more of a facilitator & less a scorer at San-en (so far after a few games) bodes well for his stint with Gilas? I mean with Gilas loaded with scorers, the national team needs a wingman who would be content of facilitating for his teammates & provide perimeter defense (which Thirdy can do as well) while taking a backseat in scoring.

 

[ja.he2]

Perhaps.
Does Thirdy becoming more of a facilitator & less a scorer at San-en (so far after a few games) bodes well for his stint with Gilas? I mean with Gilas loaded with scorers, the national team needs a wingman who would be content of facilitating for his teammates & provide perimeter defense (which Thirdy can do as well) while taking a backseat in scoring.

If he keeps his playmaking, rebounding prowess and defensive tenacity, we'll have our own version of Marcus Smart.

 

[IPC2]

Another impressive playmaking for 3rdy, 7 assists in his last game. Did older Kiefer shared secrets to his younger bro about passing ang playmaking?

Perhaps.
Does Thirdy becoming more of a facilitator & less a scorer at San-en (so far after a few games) bodes well for his stint with Gilas? I mean with Gilas loaded with scorers, the national team needs a wingman who would be content of facilitating for his teammates & provide perimeter defense (which Thirdy can do as well) while taking a backseat in scoring.

If he keeps his playmaking, rebounding prowess and defensive tenacity, we'll have our own version of Marcus Smart.

While I get the hate for Kiefer due to underperforming in the FIBA stage, I think the hate for Thirdy has been a bit overblown.

Sure, Thirdy has shooting problems, but he's been good as a slasher and as a defender. Furthermore, he's upped his assist rate with San-en in 9 games this year. He plays hard too, and good honest man-to-man defense. And 9.4 PPG on 42.7% FG (35.7% 3PT) and 1 SPG in 11 FIBA games ain't too shabby. If you want a good defender, you can go with Thirdy. Don't ask him to create too much, he got others for that, just a good defensive performance.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

While I get the hate for Kiefer due to underperforming in the FIBA stage, I think the hate for Thirdy has been a bit overblown.

Sure, Thirdy has shooting problems, but he's been good as a slasher and as a defender. Furthermore, he's upped his assist rate with San-en in 9 games this year. He plays hard too, and good honest man-to-man defense. And 9.4 PPG on 42.7% FG (35.7% 3PT) and 1 SPG in 11 FIBA games ain't too shabby. If you want a good defender, you can go with Thirdy. Don't ask him to create too much, he got others for that, just a good defensive performance.

Exactly my point about Thirdy playing for Gilas. If we got wings like a Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, CJ Perez, Parks, a shooter like Heading, combo forwards like Malonzo & Oftana, a Carl Tamayo & a Kai Sotto in there, I think Thirdy's ability to facilitate & defend the wings would come in handy. Hence, it would make more sense having a role player like that rather than having another scorer.

In the Gilas setting, I think Thirdy's suspect 3-pt. shooting won't really be felt that much. Just let Thirdy facilitate a bit, defend, slash & finish the break. Let Heading, Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, Parks, Oftana take the 3-pointers.

 

[IPC2]

Exactly my point about Thirdy playing for Gilas. If we got wings like a Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, CJ Perez, Parks, a shooter like Heading, combo forwards like Malonzo & Oftana, a Carl Tamayo & a Kai Sotto in there, I think Thirdy's ability to facilitate & defend the wings would come in handy. Hence, it would make more sense having a role player like that rather than having another scorer.

In the Gilas setting, I think Thirdy's suspect 3-pt. shooting won't really be felt that much. Just let Thirdy facilitate a bit, defend, slash & finish the break. Let Heading, Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, Parks, Oftana take the 3-pointers.

People like to harp on his bad offensive performances, but really, he provides defense and hustle. Expect him to be a star after being dominant in Ateneo, and while he hasn't been a star, he has been a good defensive 2/3 for the NT.

A lot of fans here in the Philippines are too fixated on shooting (justified), and overall offense, but generally overlook defense. That's why guys like Ange Kouame and Will Navarro tend to be overlooked and underrated, and Thirdy tends to get hate.

 

[Rds2]

Thirdys new found playmaking is indeed a boon. But I would still need to see it in Fiba competition before we can say it offsets his subpar outside shooting.

I just thought about Kiefer and how we all thought that his decent performance in B league meant he will improve in Fiba and we were disappointed. The B league has small point guards and SGs not much taller than ours. The locals are mostly our size and small by international standards. Kiefer showed how he manhandled the JP PGs in the Fiba Asia tourney. So I am thinking no wonder he gets to score in JP because most of his matchup are smaller than him. And individually he might get the stats, but it is possible it doesnt translate to wins. He might get scored on on the other end.

Kiefer is a very marketable guy. His team might swallow losing as long as they get media mileage because of him.

 

[IPC2]

In a way NP might be a good consolation for Will. He has never been a high 3FG shooter. NP gives him the leeway and pace to shoot the 3 without the pressure of winning. On the other hand playing in KBL as an import might have pressured him and make him hesitate to shoot the 3.

He was 2-6 from 3 last night, and I think 4-10 on jumpers. If he shoots like that, or better, the rest of the season, it could make him better as a prospect, both for the NT and in the overseas setting.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

People like to harp on his bad offensive performances, but really, he provides defense and hustle. Expect him to be a star after being dominant in Ateneo, and while he hasn't been a star, he has been a good defensive 2/3 for the NT.

A lot of fans here in the Philippines are too fixated on shooting (justified), and overall offense, but generally overlook defense. That's why guys like Ange Kouame and Will Navarro tend to be overlooked and underrated, and Thirdy tends to get hate.

Maybe some fans expect Thirdy to shoot 3's like Jeff Chan, Paul Lee or Jordan Heading.

On my part as a Gilas fan, I've never expected Thirdy to shoot 3's close to that of natural 3-point shooters like an Allan Caidic (absolutely the finest 3-pt shooter among the locals to play for the Phi team), Dondon Hontiveros, Jeff Chan or Paul Lee. Thirdy is a slasher, with decent defensive skills, and now he's learning to become a good facilitator. A team is composed of players playing variety of roles. Not everyone should be a shooter or a scorer. There should also be a slasher, a defense specialist, a fastbreak finisher & a facilitator.

 

[IPC2]

Exactly my point about Thirdy playing for Gilas. If we got wings like a Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, CJ Perez, Parks, a shooter like Heading, combo forwards like Malonzo & Oftana, a Carl Tamayo & a Kai Sotto in there, I think Thirdy's ability to facilitate & defend the wings would come in handy. Hence, it would make more sense having a role player like that rather than having another scorer.

In the Gilas setting, I think Thirdy's suspect 3-pt. shooting won't really be felt that much. Just let Thirdy facilitate a bit, defend, slash & finish the break. Let Heading, Clarkson, Dwight Ramos, Parks, Oftana take the 3-pointers.

And, Dwight, Malonzo, and Oftana are no slouches on defense either. Always good to see two-way players on the NT. Balti too, if he gets called up, either this window or the next.

I hope Kai improves outside of just blocking shots in the NBL. OK naman siya sa Asia.

 

[reamily2]

He was 2-6 from 3 last night, and I think 4-10 on jumpers. If he shoots like that, or better, the rest of the season, it could make him better as a prospect, both for the NT and in the overseas setting.

Navarro as a paluer thrives on a system thats why he really reacted bad on northport free wheeling offense what more chot style..

 

[Dotch2]

Thirdys new found playmaking is indeed a boon. But I would still need to see it in Fiba competition before we can say it offsets his subpar outside shooting.

Thirdy is indeed the Westbrook of the Philippines, minus the "somebody pissed on my cereal" mood

 

[magic_chiongson2]

Thirdy is indeed the Westbrook of the Philippines, minus the "somebody pissed on my cereal" mood

that's a nice comparison lol, westbrook has better handles & more athletic while thirdy is a better defender but other than those they are now pretty similar, minus the attitude

 

[IPC2]

Navarro as a paluer thrives on a system thats why he really reacted bad on northport free wheeling offense what more chot style..

He moves the ball and moves without the ball on offense. And yeah, offensively, he doesn't fit as well with Chot as he is, kasi Chot relies on shot creators nowadays. But if he improves on the 14 points on 6-14 shooting, and improves on the 2-6 from 3, his fit might be better.

He's a defender, though, and as such, I think he's indispensable to the NT, regardless of fit on offense.

 

[IPC2]

Schonny Winston of DLSU is a local for Gilas.

https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...R00WxGjh7RfFv6x_akbNFkHxIZb6W54JLnzDZwrFAPSTb

Wow. Winston is Fiba eligible. Personally I have some hesitation filling up Gilas with all Filfors. But rules are rules. And Filfors coming from the college leagues already have some rapport with the local audience. He should be given a chance. I wonder if a Fiba clearance is enough for him to qualify in the B league. I have a feeling he will kill it out there.

Hopefully, SBP can apply for clearances for Zavier Lucero, Kai Ballungay, and Luis Villegas, then apply again(?) for Mike Phillips. These guys would be boons to our 3/4/5 positions.

 

[carmelo72]

Hopefully, SBP can apply for clearances for Zavier Lucero, Kai Ballungay, and Luis Villegas, then apply again(?) for Mike Phillips. These guys would be boons to our 3/4/5 positions.

and Chris Koon. A Gilas core with Sotto,Edu,M.Philipps,Tamayo,Balti,Lucero,Ballungay,Malonzo,Ramos & Winston should be good for at least 10-12 years

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Schonny's 23, I think. That's good, age-wise. And he can defend as well.

As for individualistic, I think he has to carry La Salle's offense, which is why he carries a heavy load scoring-wise. But otherwise, he doesn't hog the ball too much. Ball goes to Nelle most of the time, I think.

That's good to hear.

Winston really looks short/small for a 6-foot-4. Parang 6-1 or 6-2 lang sya (as carmelo7 implied). I think he isn't that athletic. I say Thirdy & Newsome are more athletic. I think Winston's athleticism is in the same level as a CJ Perez, but that is still good enough becoz Winston is so skilled. He's obviously more skilled than either Perez or Newsome.

Agree with Rds, Winston's mid-range pull up jumper is money. That really is his money move/shot. Reminds me of the likes of Ato Agustin, Jolas, Johnny A., Jayjay Helterbrand whose mid-range pull up jumpers were money.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

With Winston being declared FIBA eligible, I think more fans, including most of us here in IBN, would be interested in following his game at La Salle.

Dadami ang followers ng La Salle nito.

Well, I have to admit, I'll be following La Salle's games becoz of Winston.