Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Rds2]

About the point on guys stronger at the post and guys who are faster going to the rim, that actually has been a bit of a problem pagdating sa development. If you reach a certain height, say 6'4"-6'8", in some cases players are developed to be more of post guys, even if they're better suited to a more mobile playing style.

It's actually my worry with guys like Navarro, Balti, and maybe Carl. They might be developed wrong here due to the mindset that guys that tall are better off defending the post, regardless if that guy is better off as a wing or a switchy four.

I agree. Looking at how Mamu is effective in the PBA despite having a lanky body makes me think how lanky bodied players are generally asked to muscle up in all levels of basketball and usually to the detriment of their skill development. Ed Dacquioag comes to mind. Generally the same height and length as Mamu. Stronger but a bit slower and his shot has never been polished. Ed probably was able to carve a decent UAAP career just by being a long guard and bulked up to maximize his advantage in college instead of polishing his handles or shooting.

 

[IPC2]

I agree. Looking at how Mamu is effective in the PBA despite having a lanky body makes me think how lanky bodied players are generally asked to muscle up in all levels of basketball and usually to the detriment of their skill development. Ed Dacquioag comes to mind. Generally the same height and length as Mamu. Stronger but a bit slower and his shot has never been polished. Ed probably was able to carve a decent UAAP career just by being a long guard and bulked up to maximize his advantage in college instead of polishing his handles or shooting.

Well, Mamu was already a finesse player. Relying on good handles to create his own shot, despite his height and length advantage for a guard. And he already had a specialized role in Ateneo, only a matter of time before he thrives in the PBA.

Same way Navarro was developed to be a wing, and Lazaro might be on the way too. Both need to improve their shooting, though. At least Navarro is an 80-ish foul shooter.

 

[TheRodster212]

I agree. Looking at how Mamu is effective in the PBA despite having a lanky body makes me think how lanky bodied players are generally asked to muscle up in all levels of basketball and usually to the detriment of their skill development. Ed Dacquioag comes to mind. Generally the same height and length as Mamu. Stronger but a bit slower and his shot has never been polished. Ed probably was able to carve a decent UAAP career just by being a long guard and bulked up to maximize his advantage in college instead of polishing his handles or shooting.

It's dependent on the player and their style of play and body type. Someone like Mamuyac who needs agility and quickness doesn't need to get stronger to do what he does. Some players especially slashers or players that play inside or take a lot of contact need to get stronger, not to mention if you're not quick or agile enough on defense, getting stronger can help opponents from taking advantage of you.

Evolution of NBA basketball, bigs are being asked to defend the perimeter so now athletic agile bigs with quick feet are getting picked in the draft even if they have terrible stats. Centers on average weigh less now than they did 20 years ago.

 

[IPC2]

It's dependent on the player and their style of play and body type. Someone like Mamuyac who needs agility and quickness doesn't need to get stronger to do what he does. Some players especially slashers or players that play inside or take a lot of contact need to get stronger, not to mention if you're not quick or agile enough on defense, getting stronger can help opponents from taking advantage of you.

Evolution of NBA basketball, bigs are being asked to defend the perimeter so now athletic agile bigs with quick feet are getting picked in the draft even if they have terrible stats. Centers on average weigh less now than they did 20 years ago.

Strength is necessary, but ideally, it should not come too much at the expense of mobility, especially if you need it to guard quicker players.

As for the bigs, this is where Philippine basketball could use work, training tall but mobile players who can switch. Hoops Highlights stated in one video that there are too many 6'5"+ bigs who can neither shoot well nor defend the perimeter. Right now, the only credible NT players who can defend and/or switch to the perimeter who are 6'5" and above are Will Navarro, Justine Baltazar, and Calvin Oftana. Carl Tamayo's improved on that end, but I wanna see him do that consistently. Josh Lazaro could be a potential candidate on that end. Need to develop those kind of guys, starting from high school. Hope Basti Reyes, Gab Demisana, and Alex Konov get developed into this mold.

 

[ja.he2]

Strength is necessary, but ideally, it should not come too much at the expense of mobility, especially if you need it to guard quicker players.

As for the bigs, this is where Philippine basketball could use work, training tall but mobile players who can switch. Hoops Highlights stated in one video that there are too many 6'5"+ bigs who can neither shoot well nor defend the perimeter. Right now, the only credible NT players who can defend and/or switch to the perimeter who are 6'5" and above are Will Navarro, Justine Baltazar, and Calvin Oftana. Carl Tamayo's improved on that end, but I wanna see him do that consistently. Josh Lazaro could be a potential candidate on that end. Need to develop those kind of guys, starting from high school. Hope Basti Reyes, Gab Demisana, and Alex Konov get developed into this mold.

Well, Australians and the Kiwis are the players with combined strength and mobility. You cannot say that it is all about genetics. If this is the case, Kazakhstan should have lorded over Asian basketball since joining the zone after the collapse of Soviet Union. For me, it's all about training, conditioning and exposure.

 

[CoJ2]

Well, Australians and the Kiwis are the players with combined strength and mobility. You cannot say that it is all about genetics. If this is the case, Kazakhstan should have lorded over Asian basketball since joining the zone after the collapse of Soviet Union. For me, it's all about training, conditioning and exposure.

nutrition plus exposure to better competition is also part of the equation

 

[IPC2]

Well, Australians and the Kiwis are the players with combined strength and mobility. You cannot say that it is all about genetics. If this is the case, Kazakhstan should have lorded over Asian basketball since joining the zone after the collapse of Soviet Union. For me, it's all about training, conditioning and exposure.

SoKor are already producing mobile athletes around 6'5"-6'8" almost on the regular nowadays. I think we could look at them as a model for producing tall but mobile players.

 

[ja.he2]

SoKor are already producing mobile athletes around 6'5"-6'8" almost on the regular nowadays. I think we could look at them as a model for producing tall but mobile players.

Koreans lack the strength though. For me, Australia and New Zealand and, to the lesser extent, Lebanon should be our model.

 

[IPC2]

Koreans lack the strength though. For me, Australia and New Zealand and, to the lesser extent, Lebanon should be our model.

Oh, lack strength. Yeah, agreed, which is why they struggle against the likes of China and Iran. Balance between mobility and physicality.

As for Aussie, NZ, and Lebanon, we could also emulate them in terms of physical defense, legal FIBA physicality. We pride ourselves on being physical, but we have shown neither defense nor physicality in the FIBA game since RDO, Ping, and Abueva left the team (except for the time Tab took over as program director).

 

[TheRodster212]

Well, Australians and the Kiwis are the players with combined strength and mobility. You cannot say that it is all about genetics. If this is the case, Kazakhstan should have lorded over Asian basketball since joining the zone after the collapse of Soviet Union. For me, it's all about training, conditioning and exposure.

I completely agree, an example is Yuta Watanbe from Japan. Not necessarily a multi-sport player but he is another example of a point guard that gained a growth spurt. Would maybe explain his mobility and athleticism for his size. His motor might be innate just from his work ethic but his skills and perimeter defense for his height probably came from his time as a pg.

https://www.basketrap.com/yuta-watanabe-scouting-report-2020-21-player-profile/

"...He was 5’3”(160 cm) entering middle school and played point guard before and through middle school. However, Yuta’s body decided to grow four inches (10 cm) each year after that and reached his current height as a Soph/Junior in high school. He is now 6’9”(206 cm), with some solid handles and moving skills. Japanese media gave him the nickname “the Chosen One” for his unique combination of size and skill..."

"...Yuta played as a big man in high school pretty much purely because of his height. He was VERY skinny – stick figure level, because his body was basically pulled North-South with insignificant changes in body weight. As the primary option for the team, Yuta reached the winter cup (regional playoffs) finals two years in a row in 2011 & 2012, coming up short both times. It was obvious that he struggled quite a bit having to constantly adjust to his ever-increasing height, and that growth affected his core strength and mobility during his high school days. The core strength issue is still present and concerning even now..."

..."Finally, his film at St. Thomas showed some signs of him adapting a little more to his new body, where he finally seems to be running naturally. During this one season, his lack of strength was exposed often as he got boxed out and bumped off his spot countless times..."

..."Yuta played all four years at GW as a wing. These four years really shaped him as a player as it was much-needed for Yuta to figure out what he can do with his length and skills. This is also perhaps the first time Yuta played methodical, systematic basketball in his life, and he turned into an extremely coachable player who played with a ton of heart. He became adept at maneuvering his 6’8”, 193lbs body, re-gained his guard skills and on top of that, learned how to utilize his length to be an effective player on the defensive end..."

 

[TheRodster212]

Some more stuff about Yuta

..."Team Defense

Yuta simply makes winning plays on the defensive end. He is very aware and ready as the help defender and makes timely rotations to disrupt the advantages opponents created. His speed and length made him one of the better players at close-out situations; whether that’s rotating & contesting a shot on the perimeter or recovering after helping as the low-man.

The current NBA is more spaced than ever. With players like Harden, Luka, and LeBron constantly collapsing defenses, C&S 3s have become one of the most common role player shots in the NBA. Thus, defenders on the baseline have to be hyper-aware regarding whether he has to show on a drive, but also be ready to sprint back to his man in the case of a kick out. There are also situations where that help defender has to make almost instantaneous reads as to which player to rotate to when there is more than one shooter on his side. Yuta’s ground coverage stands out in both scenarios – if you’re open for a shot after Yuta left you for help, you will pretty much always unexpectedly see a hand if your face by the time you’re releasing the ball. Perhaps this is best illustrated by watching some film..."

..."Having someone with Yuta’s length and mobility is very valuable as he can help turn wide-open corner 3s, one of the most valuable shots in the game, to at least semi-contested attempts. And because of Yuta’s tremendous hustle and drive, he will always put forth that extra effort to close out and disrupt..."

"...Yuta’s on-ball defense isn’t as established as a skill simply because of the lack of on-ball reps he gets. With savvy POA defenders like Fred VanVleet, OG Anunoby, and the Stanimal on the team, Yuta’s only opportunities for on-ball comes after switches and opposing 2nd chance opportunities. However, in the very few possessions he’s had this season, he’s shown promising flashes of being a solid perimeter defender. He’s got great footwork & foot speed, and a ridiculously fluid hip that allows him to seamlessly change direction when he slides and stays attached to the driver..."

"... The Giannis clip (3rd to last clip of vid) illustrates how he was able to stay in front of Giannis for a good portion of that drive; his length forced Giannis to take a tough shot- finger roll moving away from the rim. Though he would have to add more functional strength to get better at this, he has certainly shown great instincts in that department..."

 

[JAMSKIE2]

With the way Jamie Malonzo is playing with Ginebra, I think he has a good potential becoming a reliable wing defender for Gilas in the FIBA game. Another good upside I see about Malonzo is that he runs the floor very well & he can has hops which would be good fit in an up tempo game both offensively & defensively. Malonzo could be a good asset in both ends of the court for Gilas.

 

[IPC2]

With the way Jamie Malonzo is playing with Ginebra, I think he has a good potential becoming a reliable wing defender for Gilas in the FIBA game. Another good upside I see about Malonzo is that he runs the floor very well & he can has hops which would be good fit in an up tempo game both offensively & defensively. Malonzo could be a good asset in both ends of the court for Gilas.

Guy has a great motor too. Can defend man-to-man better now, not just a help defender anymore, although he's still deadly as a help defender.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Great to have a good number of 6-5/6-6 combo forwards in the current Gilas pool - Malonzo, Oftana, Roosevelt Adams, Will Navarro, Arvin Tolentino, Francis Lopez. Not in the Gilas pool are 6-5 Javi GDL & 6-6 Kobe Paras. Never has Philippine basketball possessed this abundance of good size combo forwards.

 

[IPC2]

Not sure if the SBP and Heading are in good terms tbh.

He's on Chot's wishlist, though.

Yeah, he needs someone that can spread the floor.

He does not have such kind of a player since Jeff Chan.

He had hoped that Pogoy and Wright are the ones that will take Jeff's spot but it did not work.

Pogoy and Wright are shot creators, not really shooters. Wright in addition was more of a playmaker.

Pogoy, man. Showed promise as a shooter in the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, but he became more of a shot creator and less of a shooter, and has been crap in FIBA since, save for one game against Indonesia in February 2020. His lack of height and explosiveness hurts too. Not exactly that much of a defender in FIBA as well. Thirdy and Mike Nieto defended better.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Pogoy and Wright are shot creators, not really shooters. Wright in addition was more of a playmaker.

Pogoy, man. Showed promise as a shooter in the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup, but he became more of a shot creator and less of a shooter, and has been crap in FIBA since, save for one game against Indonesia in February 2020. His lack of height and explosiveness hurts too. Not exactly that much of a defender in FIBA as well. Thirdy and Mike Nieto defended better.

Very much agree with U bro.

 

[IPC2]

Great to have a good number of 6-5/6-6 combo forwards in the current Gilas pool - Malonzo, Oftana, Roosevelt Adams, Will Navarro, Arvin Tolentino, Francis Lopez. Not in the Gilas pool are 6-5 Javi GDL & 6-6 Kobe Paras. Never has Philippine basketball possessed this abundance of good size combo forwards.

More on the way too. 6'6" LA Andres and 6'5" Jared Abadam of La Salle, and then we have 6'7" Konov and 6'5" Caelum Harris, the latter three showing potential on defense. Heck, 6'5" Josh Lazaro of Ateneo too, if he improves his shooting (which is a big if, since he's currently at 41.2% from the FT line). Although just 6'4", Aldous Torculas of UP, Justine Sanchez of San Beda, and Cholo Anonuevo of FEU could use looks too.

I hope I see more than this, though. As in, we have to keep on scouting for and developing 6'5"-6'6" wings or combo forwards.

 

[paulrenzo2]

More on the way too. 6'6" LA Andres and 6'5" Jared Abadam of La Salle, and then we have 6'7" Konov and 6'5" Caelum Harris, the latter three showing potential on defense. Heck, 6'5" Josh Lazaro of Ateneo too, if he improves his shooting (which is a big if, since he's currently at 41.2% from the FT line). Although just 6'4", Aldous Torculas of UP, Justine Sanchez of San Beda, and Cholo Anonuevo of FEU could use looks too.

I hope I see more than this, though. As in, we have to keep on scouting for and developing 6'5"-6'6" wings or combo forwards.

Hoping Lazaro becomes a taller Mamuyac by the end of his UAAP career

 

[IPC2]

Hoping Lazaro becomes a taller Mamuyac by the end of his UAAP career

Hope so too. He already has some semblance of handles, and can pull up a bit. Now, he just needs to consistently make the pullups and FTs, and extend his range. His tools on defense are there, e. He can switch. Hopefully nga, he can become a 6'5" Mamu.

 

[IPC2]

How many IBNers here have whined about RJ Abarrientos & SJ Belangel both being "bansot" or undersized point guards that are easy mismatches in the FIBA game specially in the world level.

Here's my stand: I think RJ & SJ would be serviceable for Gilas in the "Asian level", especially if they are handled by a competent coach. Since both RJ & SJ are only in their 20's, they are bound for more improvement. The thing is, even right now that he's only 23, RJ Abarrientos is already among the best point guards in the KBL. Now imagine how good this kid would be after 2 or 3 years of playing in the KBL.

If you're good, you'll be serviceable, even if you're undersized. That's how LA, Jimmy, Castro, Terrence, Abueva, RDO, and Ping earned their places in the NT, despite being undersized for their positions. They were good.

RJ, I didn't expect to be this good this quickly. Sige, 4 games pa lang, but man, he is setting the KBL on fire. 50% from the field and 43.2% from 3. 8.1 assists per game too, according to Heoball. If he keeps going like this, he's going to earn an NT pool call-up as soon as the February window. SJ naman, solid so far, but could improve his defense and shooting, as he's just a facilitator at this point.