Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Juan Lun2]

It's not too late for sbp to correct and undo the blunders that they've made. Bring back Coach Tab and more specially change their mindset of false nationalism. Get rid of the likes of Mr. Panlilio and his cohorts who share his backward mission and vision.

imo this is what we need to do to systematically fix the PBA:

• allow foreign coaches in the PBA..
  Imagine Tab, Nenad and Toroman coaching locally all year round
• allow 2 unlimited height imports
  a lot of our PBA "Superstars" looks good due to inferior defense
• upgrade to FIBA rules
  no more playing defense using hands and gulang
• remove sister teams and expand the league
  this lopsided trades are rediculous - to even out the level of competition to ALL teams not just the usual MVP vs SMB.. Maybe Alaska will come back by then
• Match existing offers by B-league, Taiwan Basketball and KBL etc
  a lot of under the table offers anyway why not just legalize it
• return the PBL, or make a division 2 league
  for those who will be displaced by the imports naturalized players and Filams they can work on their game at the 2nd division
• allow naturalized players to play as local in the PBA
  

IF these are implemented, this will improve the level of quality locally all year round, no need to wait for FIBA games to get used to international basketball, kahit mag hugot system tayo with 3 months preparation coached by Tab or any local coach who adopted the int'l system I think we will be successful

 

[thatweirdguy2]

I'm seeing LA Tenorio going at fans right now on Twitter. Man.

https://twitter.com/LA_Tenorio/status/1563023727532523521?t=PC0_1ZeaZon94E_T-wsf-A&s=19

He's a superfriend. What do you expect.

 

[zairex2]

imo this is what we need to do to systematically fix the PBA:

• allow foreign coaches in the PBA..
  Imagine Tab, Nenad and Toroman coaching locally all year round
• allow 2 unlimited height imports
  a lot of our PBA "Superstars" looks good due to inferior defense
• upgrade to FIBA rules
  no more playing defense using hands and gulang
• remove sister teams and expand the league
  this lopsided trades are rediculous - to even out the level of competition to ALL teams not just the usual MVP vs SMB.. Maybe Alaska will come back by then
• Match existing offers by B-league, Taiwan Basketball and KBL etc
  a lot of under the table offers anyway why not just legalize it
• return the PBL, or make a division 2 league
  for those who will be displaced by the imports naturalized players and Filams they can work on their game at the 2nd division
• allow naturalized players to play as local in the PBA
  

IF these are implemented, this will improve the level of quality locally all year round, no need to wait for FIBA games to get used to international basketball, kahit mag hugot system tayo with 3 months preparation coached by Tab or any local coach who adopted the int'l system I think we will be successful

Why Japan always loses to tall teams if having 3 imports helped them to not be intimidated.

 

[Juan Lun2]

Why Japan always loses to tall teams if having 3 imports helped them to not be intimidated.

I'm not sure what your entailing to but if you think limiting your competition with 30+ yr old-ish 6'10 June mar and 6'9 Japeth as your best interior shot blocking defense will help the league in the long run then be my guest. that's why Asi at almost 50 yrs old is still playing because of the lack of big men that we have (if i'm not mistaken he's still playing)

 

[paolylo2]

imo this is what we need to do to systematically fix the PBA:

• allow foreign coaches in the PBA..
  Imagine Tab, Nenad and Toroman coaching locally all year round
• allow 2 unlimited height imports
  a lot of our PBA "Superstars" looks good due to inferior defense
• upgrade to FIBA rules
  no more playing defense using hands and gulang
• remove sister teams and expand the league
  this lopsided trades are rediculous - to even out the level of competition to ALL teams not just the usual MVP vs SMB.. Maybe Alaska will come back by then
• Match existing offers by B-league, Taiwan Basketball and KBL etc
  a lot of under the table offers anyway why not just legalize it
• return the PBL, or make a division 2 league
  for those who will be displaced by the imports naturalized players and Filams they can work on their game at the 2nd division
• allow naturalized players to play as local in the PBA
  

IF these are implemented, this will improve the level of quality locally all year round, no need to wait for FIBA games to get used to international basketball, kahit mag hugot system tayo with 3 months preparation coached by Tab or any local coach who adopted the int'l system I think we will be successful

PBA is too stuborn for that. The economics of the league is built off the luho of business owners patterened after the old MICAA games. They have no concept of scheduling the league during the Fall/Winter/Spring months of the West because we're in the tropics with only a wet and dry season so we never had a chance to compete for Olympic/World Cup slots that only happens during the Western Summer months from 1986 to 2007 with this idiotic premise that being the oldest league in Asia means they're also the best. They ignored the level of the top 3 East Asians (China, South Korea, Japan) in the late 80's, they ignored the game's growth in West Asia and the Middle East in the mid-to-late 90's, by the mid 2000's... PBA-stacked National Teams were getting blown out by at least 5 other Asian countries and we were at the level of a Taiwan or Qatar (without their naturalized Africans). Then there's the inclusion of Australia and New Zealand in the 2010's. The PBA has seen all of these and had meaningless moral victories with Asian Games medals to Chot begging the BAP to let them play when the federation was being suspended by FIBA in 2005 during the SBP takeover. They've done special conferences and special drafts to try and help the national team, but they have not changed their core of being a closed-minded, backward-thinking league. No foreign coaches because it offends the BCAP, all these import restrictions to make it look like local players are more awesome than they really are, then the obvious issue of richer teams getting what they want.

Also, real talk. MVP, RSA, Romero, etc will never match the salaries of those B-League teams because they generate more revenue from not just a single company. Look at how many logos a B-League jersey has compared to a PBA team. They are all corporate partners with localized community-based supporters (hindi yung employado ng Smart para lang tapatan yung Barangay Ginerba, anak ng pota naman). I'll admit the last time I saw a PBA game live was Comissioners Cup 1999 between Mobiline and SMB. There's just way more passion watching college games and there's an added feeling of pride when watching a Gilas game. For the most part, PBA games are glorified barangay liga games and the only reason I watch is to see if certain college players achieve their dreams because most of them start raw and won't even be in a roster after a couple of years. We're at an odd time because I'm convinced we have a handful of young players who are way better than some PBA players that just renewed their contracts. It's just frustrating how the league and the SBP doesn't recognize this and remains both unique and dumb.

 

[Juan Lun2]

PBA is too stuborn for that. The economics of the league is built off the luho of business owners patterened after the old MICAA games. They have no concept of scheduling the league during the Fall/Winter/Spring months of the West because we're in the tropics with only a wet and dry season so we never had a chance to compete for Olympic/World Cup slots that only happens during the Western Summer months from 1986 to 2007 with this idiotic premise that being the oldest league in Asia means they're also the best. They ignored the level of the top 3 East Asians (China, South Korea, Japan) in the late 80's, they ignored the game's growth in West Asia and the Middle East in the mid-to-late 90's, by the mid 2000's... PBA-stacked National Teams were getting blown out by at least 5 other Asian countries and we were at the level of a Taiwan or Qatar (without their naturalized Africans). Then there's the inclusion of Australia and New Zealand in the 2010's. The PBA has seen all of these and had meaningless moral victories with Asian Games medals to Chot begging the BAP to let them play when the federation was being suspended by FIBA in 2005 during the SBP takeover. They've done special conferences and special drafts to try and help the national team, but they have not changed their core of being a closed-minded, backward-thinking league. No foreign coaches because it offends the BCAP, all these import restrictions to make it look like local players are more awesome than they really are, then the obvious issue of richer teams getting what they want.

Also, real talk. MVP, RSA, Romero, etc will never match the salaries of those B-League teams because they generate more revenue from not just a single company. Look at how many logos a B-League jersey has compared to a PBA team. They are all corporate partners with localized community-based supporters (hindi yung employado ng Smart para lang tapatan yung Barangay Ginerba, anak ng pota naman). I'll admit the last time I saw a PBA game live was Comissioners Cup 1999 between Mobiline and SMB. There's just way more passion watching college games and there's an added feeling of pride when watching a Gilas game. For the most part, PBA games are glorified barangay liga games and the only reason I watch is to see if certain college players achieve their dreams because most of them start raw and won't even be in a roster after a couple of years. We're at an odd time because I'm convinced we have a handful of young players who are way better than some PBA players that just renewed their contracts. It's just frustrating how the league and the SBP doesn't recognize this and remains both unique and dumb.

well said and thanks for the trip down the memory lane - your right, as long as the PBA are generating revenue, they will remain a backward thinking, inclusive league. (May sariling mundo nga - in line with what Tab said in Eric Menk's podcast.) a glorified barangay league. I used to follow and watch the PBA as well during the 90's Alaska run until the Fil Am era in early 2000's, now I don't even watch highlights in Youtube (my own way of hoping to make a difference).. knowing nothing will change until we stopped supporting them

 

[IPC2]

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fib...elf-available-for-gilas-callup-a2437-20220826

Hope he really is eligible. Useful defensive and rebounding presence if ever.

He should be considered for the Feb 2024 window, or even Feb 2023.

 

[IPC2]

I'm just hoping in the future for a renewed emphasis on defense after the WC. Somebody who could coach a competent defense at the FIBA level, and players who could defend as a team and defend multiple positions internationally (tall bigs, tweeners, and wings who can switch onto smaller positions).

In our past successes, defense was a big part of our team, aside from the talent and shooting. Recently, apart from the February 2020-June 2021 period, defense was not good, amd our standing tanked. Bad defense, team composition, and shooting kinda contributed to that.

 

[sroth38392]

I'm just hoping in the future for a renewed emphasis on defense after the WC. Somebody who could coach a competent defense at the FIBA level, and players who could defend as a team and defend multiple positions internationally (tall bigs, tweeners, and wings who can switch onto smaller positions).

In our past successes, defense was a big part of our team, aside from the talent and shooting. Recently, apart from the February 2020-June 2021 period, defense was not good, amd our standing tanked. Bad defense, team composition, and shooting kinda contributed to that.

The U18 team made strides by playing zone but they fucking bottled it by not adjusting to a hot shooting team.

There's a reason Korea loves using the zone: It works.

The Zone and NZ's pressure man-to-man defense are very effective.

 

[IPC2]

I think it was analyzed that said that you can work on the exemption of an NP and being an NP won't affect his exemption status. It's clear residency and basketball heritage matter. Kouame has been here for 3 or 4 years? In around 4 years he might qualify for exemption, as Newsome had around 8 years of residency. The problem is he can't play commercial ball here so he can't stay here and work on the exemption. And there's the thing about naturalization. So far our NPs underwent the legislative way of naturalization. As in they had to write it in the law to make them citizens. I don't think that's a practical way of naturalization.

So how do we have them go through either administrative or judicial naturalization? They're both tedious, but I think you might need the testimony of Filipino citizens. Maybe have some FSA's go through that route if they've lived here?

 

[sroth38392]

I'm not supporting that way.. But that is the reality here... It's hard to expect some changes between PBA and SBP...

Acknowledging reality is one thing. Accepting defeat that it won’t change is another.

This is a loser mentality. Don’t fall into this trap.

 

[IPC2]

But Chot will still be there next year. It's up to our players themselves to improve their D because you know, don't expect anything from Chot. We had tons of good defenders on that lineup but we still gave up a lot of easy shots. Aside from JC, Kiefer, it's only Tamayo who's below average on defense.

Yes and no. Yes, they can individually do something. No, because there should be a defensive schemed from the coach. Plays are made to score over the defense. If we are doing pure 1 on 1 d, opposing teams will keep attacking either the weakest link on D, or try to tire/foul out certain players who we rely on offense. Kahit interbarangay, the players and if they have a coach, will talk what to do on D as a team
What more in the world stage. Case in point, u18 gilas vs lebanon

That's why we need more coaches that can scheme on defense and can easily adapt that defense to the international level. In position to rotate against the likes of Haddadi, while also able to rotate against shooting teams like SoKor and Chinese Taipei, and maybe Japan. A similar defensive scheme to Tab's. We need that style both in the seniors and the youth level.

 

[IPC2]

That's why we need more coaches that can scheme on defense and can easily adapt that defense to the international level. In position to rotate against the likes of Haddadi, while also able to rotate against shooting teams like SoKor and Chinese Taipei, and maybe Japan. A similar defensive scheme to Tab's. We need that style both in the seniors and the youth level.

That's why Goldwin could be a good addition to this WC staff. He successfully schemed against Ateneo's FIBA-style offense, and UP is a good defensive team, as in legitimately good, although some argue that it's too physical.

 

[IPC2]

Acknowledging reality is one thing. Accepting defeat that it won’t change is another.

This is a loser mentality. Don’t fall into this trap.

Honestly, that's the reality. They're stubborn. Just need to continue calling for changes in the system and the GM. We're fans, and we have the right to demand better from the management, the coaching staff, and the players.

But for now, I want change, and at the same time, I just want as many of our good young FIBA-eligibles to play abroad instead of the PBA.

 

[IPC2]

I say the chance of CJ Perez playing as point guard or combo guard for that matter would have increased significantly if he started playing as such during his early 20's. In short, he needed the reps to do it. With Perez now in his late 20's, I think its too late nah.

Look at Robert Bolick, he played as a wingman during his early collegiate basketball years at La Salle. But when he transferred to San Beda, he was converted into a legit point guard. I think Bolick was around 19 or 20 when he made the transition. No wonder he was very successful in that transition.

Ayun, Beda kind of has a good program when it comes to producing bigger guards and taller wings, one of the better NCAA schools to produce players fit for FIBA. Bolick, Oftana. Hopefully naman, they can produce more. Sila ng Ateneo, may track record na niyan.

I think we should measure how successful schools are in producing and developing FIBA-fit players, not just players who can be successful in the PBA. Cause, you know there are good players in the PBA that aren't exactly cutting it in the international scene.

 

[dubidub2]

dunno if it has been discussed here recently but i just read that motor mike phillips is eligible for gilas??? lets gooooo

 

[ARMIR2]

dunno if it has been discussed here recently but i just read that motor mike phillips is eligible for gilas??? lets gooooo

This is gonna sound weird but its starting to getting crowded on the big man position specially the 4.

 

[Rds2]

Ayun, Beda kind of has a good program when it comes to producing bigger guards and taller wings, one of the better NCAA schools to produce players fit for FIBA. Bolick, Oftana. Hopefully naman, they can produce more. Sila ng Ateneo, may track record na niyan.

I think we should measure how successful schools are in producing and developing FIBA-fit players, not just players who can be successful in the PBA. Cause, you know there are good players in the PBA that aren't exactly cutting it in the international scene.

This is a good motivation but unfortunately Ateneos level for student athletes is too high. Ever since Thirdy came in they have been red shirting guys for acads. I dont see that even in the US. High potential home growns cant afford to waste a year just to prop up their acads. Even just a year in the UAAP can put you in the radar of Asian leagues.

Just imagine if Perez and Arvin never left Ateneo. Perez might have been a PG before he graduated and competed internstionally regularly. Arvin might have been a decent defender and even became more of a monster offensively.

Now u see Ateneo is forced to make up the home grown talent deficit with Filfors. These guys are native English speakers with built in advantage on homegrowns to anything related to English.

So unfortunately it is Filfors now who benefit with Tabs training not homegrowns.

I just cant believe that Filfors are just better students than homegrowns. They are just probably better at English comprehension and writing. We shouldnt penalize home growns just because they are worse at English than Filfors.

 

[Rds2]

This is gonna sound weird but its starting to getting crowded on the big man position specially the 4.

This is false news I think. Give me a quote thats says Philips is Fiba eligible not a vague headline saying " Philips makes himself available for Gilas"

 

[IPC2]

This is a good motivation but unfortunately Ateneos level for student athletes is too high. Ever since Thirdy came in they have been red shirting guys for acads. I dont see that even in the US. High potential home growns cant afford to waste a year just to prop up their acads. Even just a year in the UAAP can put you in the radar of Asian leagues.

Just imagine if Perez and Arvin never left Ateneo. Perez might have been a PG before he graduated and competed internstionally regularly. Arvin might have been a decent defender and even became more of a monster offensively.

Now u see Ateneo is forced to make up the home grown talent deficit with Filfors. These guys are native English speakers with built in advantage on homegrowns to anything related to English.

So unfortunately it is Filfors now who benefit with Tabs training not homegrowns.

I just cant believe that Filfors are just better students than homegrowns. They are just probably better at English comprehension and writing. We shouldnt penalize home growns just because they are worse at English than Filfors.

Not everyone's cut out for academics, like I say. Some are better off for tech-voc, or in this case, sports.

Now, as for taller, more versatile defensive wings/forwards, potentially or otherwise, ther are other schools now. UP has 6'4" Torculas, 6'6" Lucero, 6'6" Briones, 6'5" Ashon Andrews, and 6'6" Mark Belmonte. La Salle has 6'5" Abadam. Let's hope these schools can develop said players to be versatile perimeter players and especially defenders. Ewan ko lang for big guards, though.