Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[Labradoodle2]

Which makes me wonder if those Qatari players of Bosnian descent (with no Qatari bloodline) that play as locals in the Qatar national team really help the development & improvement of Qatar basketball?

Don't these Bosnian-Qataris just take away spots & opportunities from "genuine" Qatari local players?

Walang pinag kaiba yan sa isang professional team having as many as 5 or 6 imports. Puro imports na lang ang gagawa, yung mga local players eh wala ng opportunity to showcase their wares. Try to put 5 imports on a team like San Miguel Beer & see what happens to the games Fajardo, Lassiter, CJ Perez, Tautuaa, Romeo.

The reason why Qatar imports their athletes is because their local population are not culturally into JOINING sports. They watch, but they don't really play. So Qatar "imports" their athletes like they import their labor. So no, the Bosnians are not "taking away" opportunities from Qatari citizens. Just much as Mexican farm workers are not taking away jobs from Americans. Americans are not interested in doing manual farm labor like how Qataris are not interested in joining sports, and especially their national teams. Even during the 2008 economic recession, the US still had labor shortages in the farming industry. The only option to get the farms going is to import foreign labor.

If you look at it, the gulf countries tend to have more non-citizen residents than actual citizen-residents. That's because of the extremely strict naturalization requirement (must be Arab, must be Muslim) and that gulf citizens are given dole outs by their government while the migrant laborers(often from poorer countries) build their economy. The economy of the rich gulf countries are built off the backs of migrant laborers - largely from South and Southeast Asia.

To be honest, I am more concerned about Qatar stripping off their foreign athletes Qatari citizenship once their "tenure" is done. It is more of a concern than Qatar circumventing the Hagop rule. Stripping one of citizenship without good reason is literally a human rights violation.

 

[reamily2]

I see it as per tournamnet basis.. papalusotin si clarkson sa 2023.. pero iniiwasan na may fiba competition nasasalihan tayo napuro filam players ang klalaro, thats why there is residency and we only give that slot to an exemplary game changing fil foreigner

 

[thatweirdguy2]

The reason why Qatar imports their athletes is because their local population are not culturally into JOINING sports. They watch, but they don't really play. So Qatar "imports" their athletes like they import their labor. So no, the Bosnians are not "taking away" opportunities from Qatari citizens. Just much as Mexican farm workers are not taking away jobs from Americans. Americans are not interested in doing manual farm labor like how Qataris are not interested in joining sports, and especially their national teams. Even during the 2008 economic recession, the US still had labor shortages in the farming industry. The only option to get the farms going is to import foreign labor.

If you look at it, the gulf countries tend to have more non-citizen residents than actual citizen-residents. That's because of the extremely strict naturalization requirement (must be Arab, must be Muslim) and that gulf citizens are given dole outs by their government while the migrant laborers(often from poorer countries) build their economy. The economy of the rich gulf countries are built off the backs of migrant laborers - largely from South and Southeast Asia.

To be honest, I am more concerned about Qatar stripping off their foreign athletes Qatari citizenship once their "tenure" is done. It is more of a concern than Qatar circumventing the Hagop rule. Stripping one of citizenship without good reason is literally a human rights violation.

Well most Qatari's aren't really into anything. They're rich and set for life the moment they are born. They're one of the most privileged people in the world.. basketball to them is really just an expensive hobby

 

[thatweirdguy2]

Basketball has always been a global sport. Also could you imagine how strong already established powerhouses if the Hagop rule is abolished? So wouldnt it affect all countries? Therefore not having an effect anyways in terms of competition? But yes more US based or NBA players will be playing in FIBA tournaments which would be good for the eyes. JLin bros, Juzang bros, Divicenzo, Nigerian and Puerto Rican etc.

It's gonna increase public interest for sure if the more popular players are playing for the NT. Also it's going to increase the level of competition if the high level talents gets distributed to all the countries. Not everyone is gonna get a call from Team USA so might as well let them play for another country

 

[qwertyz2]

It's gonna increase public interest for sure if the more popular players are playing for the NT. Also it's going to increase the level of competition if the high level talents gets distributed to all the countries. Not everyone is gonna get a call from Team USA so might as well let them play for another country

NTs will be playing at a higher level but it will be the same thing for underdogs as it is for powerhouses. They’ll all improve which means the results may still be the same but just in another playing field. But as I said before if all the NTs improved, results wouldn’t be any different from what it is now.

This is why I kinda understand the Hagop rule. It forces countries to have a better grassroots/development program. Countries actually spend funds on prospects either send them overseas or include them in NT pools. Countries also spends time developing these prospects. Thats why I concluded that the Hagop rule has a huge impact on the globalization of the sport.

 

[Sikatrix2]

On the Hagop rule being the cause of NBA globalization. Correlation is not causation. The NBA is building a global brand and they dont care about the Hagop rule.

But your first point about NTs will all improve equally, thats just not true. Stronger teams wont improve as much if not at all. Like if the Hagop Rule is abolished think the US or Australian rosters are changing?

 

[DAdmiral2]

As I said I'm optimistic Jc (popularity and competitiveness) and Kouame (residency and basketball heritage) will play together in 2023.
That in the end is the outcome of all this Lobbying for exception or changes
This has been an ongoing discussion

 

[JAMSKIE2]

The reason why Qatar imports their athletes is because their local population are not culturally into JOINING sports. They watch, but they don't really play. So Qatar "imports" their athletes like they import their labor. So no, the Bosnians are not "taking away" opportunities from Qatari citizens. Just much as Mexican farm workers are not taking away jobs from Americans. Americans are not interested in doing manual farm labor like how Qataris are not interested in joining sports, and especially their national teams. Even during the 2008 economic recession, the US still had labor shortages in the farming industry. The only option to get the farms going is to import foreign labor.

If you look at it, the gulf countries tend to have more non-citizen residents than actual citizen-residents. That's because of the extremely strict naturalization requirement (must be Arab, must be Muslim) and that gulf citizens are given dole outs by their government while the migrant laborers(often from poorer countries) build their economy. The economy of the rich gulf countries are built off the backs of migrant laborers - largely from South and Southeast Asia.

To be honest, I am more concerned about Qatar stripping off their foreign athletes Qatari citizenship once their "tenure" is done. It is more of a concern than Qatar circumventing the Hagop rule. Stripping one of citizenship without good reason is literally a human rights violation.

Ok, noted bro.

So what does this speak of a country who has to import players from abroad to play to represent that country becoz its "genuine" citizens are not interested in playing for their very own country? Worse, once these imports' tenure is over, the Qatar government will strip them of their Qatari citizenship. Its like pag wala ka nang pakinabang ididispatsa ka na lang.

 

[qwertyz2]

On the Hagop rule being the cause of NBA globalization. Correlation is not causation. The NBA is building a global brand and they dont care about the Hagop rule.

But your first point about NTs will all improve equally, thats just not true. Stronger teams wont improve as much if not at all. Like if the Hagop Rule is abolished think the US or Australian rosters are changing?

I never said that Hagop Rule was the sole cause of globalisation. I only said that hagop rule did have an effect on the things I listed. The NBA didn’t produce those players. They probably played in international camps. But guess where those players played previously before making it in the NBA? In FIBA Tournaments. They played for their NTs before they made a jump to the NBA.

To my first point. As Tab said, USA is just different. But yes if Hagop Rule was abolished wouldn’t everyone be allowed to recruit ineligibles? That would mean they could recruit anyone as long as there is a proof of lineage. Competition will be in a higher playing field but results may not be different by that much.

 

[Sikatrix2]

I never said that Hagop Rule was the sole cause of globalisation. I only said that hagop rule did have an effect on the things I listed. The NBA didn’t produce those players. They probably played in international camps. But guess where those players played previously before making it in the NBA? In FIBA Tournaments. They played for their NTs before they made a jump to the NBA.

To my first point. As Tab said, USA is just different. But yes if Hagop Rule was abolished wouldn’t everyone be allowed to recruit ineligibles? That would mean they could recruit anyone as long as there is a proof of lineage. Competition will be in a higher playing field but results may not be different by that much.

They could easily replace the Hagop rule with rules similar to FIFA wherein they consider connections to the country as the main reason for eligibility. I think whats most important when determining eligibility is a clear connection to the country not date of passport acquisition. Thats why I dont like it when Indonesia and Qatar recruit 15 yr olds. Do you? Because thats a direct result of the Hagop rule.

EDIT: Im pretty sure most development of NBA international prospects come from european club basketball or US D1. I mean we take FIBA tournaments more seriously than most countries and we dont develop NBA talent.

 

[qwertyz2]

They could easily replace the Hagop rule with rules similar to FIFA wherein they consider connections to the country as the main reason for eligibility. I think whats most important when determining eligibility is a clear connection to the country not date of passport acquisition. Thats why I dont like it when Indonesia and Qatar recruit 15 yr olds. Do you? Because thats a direct result of the Hagop rule.

EDIT: Im pretty sure most development of NBA international prospects come from european club basketball or US D1. I mean we take FIBA tournaments more seriously than most countries and we dont develop NBA talent.

I actually dont agree with recruitment of 15 year olds without lineage.

So you’re saying international NBA prospects just randomly spawn in US NCAA and and euro clubs? They dont get assistance from their NT? They dont train under their NT? Most of these international prospects go through FIBA and is a direct product of their country’s program.

Also the other thing is why does it seem that other Countries have already accepted Hagop and are doing well with it? They’ve developed top level prospects from their own backyard.

 

[thatweirdguy2]

Ok, noted bro.

So what does this speak of a country who has to import players from abroad to play to represent that country becoz its "genuine" citizens are not interested in playing for their very own country? Worse, once these imports' tenure is over, the Qatar government will strip them of their Qatari citizenship. Its like pag wala ka nang pakinabang ididispatsa ka na lang.

I know it's different but I still feel bad that Douthit and Blatche aren't even allowed to play in the PBA. They were really treated as mercenaries. Kinda really enforces what they PBA thinks about them

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I know it's different but I still feel bad that Douthit and Blatche aren't even allowed to play in the PBA. They were really treated as mercenaries. Kinda really enforces what they PBA thinks about them

Agree with you bro. But I think our good people in the PBA are just concerned that allowing naturalized players to play as locals in the PBA is going to cause imbalance in the league. Imagine if Blatche plays as a local for TNT.

Anyway, imbalance na rin naman ang liga regardless of naturalized being allowed to play as locals or not. Its as if yung mga magagaling nating mga PBA people have preserved the balance of competition of the league for them to cite it as a reason why naturalized players shouldn't be allowed to play as locals in the PBA.

Its like a doctor telling his patient not to drink liquor becoz its bad for health but telling him its ok to smoke 4 packs of cigarrete a day.

 

[Labradoodle2]

Well most Qatari's aren't really into anything. They're rich and set for life the moment they are born. They're one of the most privileged people in the world.. basketball to them is really just an expensive hobby

Not just basketball. That's pretty much any sport. Qataris import their athletes across the board

 

[Labradoodle2]

Ok, noted bro.

So what does this speak of a country who has to import players from abroad to play to represent that country becoz its "genuine" citizens are not interested in playing for their very own country? Worse, once these imports' tenure is over, the Qatar government will strip them of their Qatari citizenship. Its like pag wala ka nang pakinabang ididispatsa ka na lang.

I think the Hagop rule can be questioned more effectively if the critics frame it not from a "circumventing" standpoint or "they're not Qataris by blood" but from the fact that once their tenure is over, they strip their imported athletes of citizenship.

This will make FIBA look complacent about basic human rights per UN

 

[Labradoodle2]

Douthit, Blatche and Kouame can literally purchase land, invest in protected industries and play for the national team....but can't play in the PBA. Haha

 

[ccharmed2]

Not using quality bigs like douthit, blatche or kouame has been the worst blunder the pba can make. The current pba teams cant graduate from midget ball because of this. It is also discriminatory, for a racist internationally mediocre league.

Can the top three favorite pba teams even reliably beat a top sokor, chinese or aussie pro team? If they cant, they are not good teams.

 

[curtaincall2]

I actually dont agree with recruitment of 15 year olds without lineage.

So you’re saying international NBA prospects just randomly spawn in US NCAA and and euro clubs? They dont get assistance from their NT? They dont train under their NT? Most of these international prospects go through FIBA and is a direct product of their country’s program.

Also the other thing is why does it seem that other Countries have already accepted Hagop and are doing well with it? They’ve developed top level prospects from their own backyard.

Atleast those countries actually spend time and finances and shows that they are willing to develop those kids in their home soil. Unlike other countries who just recruit players who havent even visited their other "home country". For example, Jared Dillinger never visited Philippines during his childhood and was never interested in the PBA. The first time he went to the Philippines was for the National Team.

Just an honest question. Which would you prefer? Countries who recruit players with lineage but never even stepped foot in their other home country or Countries that recruit non lineage players but are developed in the said country before turning 16?

 

[ARMIR2]

Not just basketball. That's pretty much any sport. Qataris import their athletes across the board

Without the Hagop rule than pretty much they can buy citizen athletes all over

 

[tomcat2]

PBA’s Talk n Text(2011)versus Alaska(1998) for the National team

Talk n Text
-Yet that Philippine side was still reinforced with PBA players by the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas, adding ceiling with Asi Taulava, Kelly Williams, and Ranidel de Ocampo, and veteran smarts with Jimmy Alapag.

Promising as the potential was on paper, Toroman believed the belated arrival of the PBA players affected the chemistry of the team.

"The situation was really different because we were working at the time and we needed some PBA players like Jimmy Alapag, Ranidel, and Kelly Wiliams, but the problem was that they joined us seven days before the competition and that was one of the reasons why we did not have full success in that tournament," he recounted.

"In the Jones Cup before that, we didn’t have Jimmy, Kelly, and the others and we played really great. We were really doing well. But when Fiba Asia came, it was like two teams. One is the regional Gilas team and one is Talk 'N Text team with Chot (Reyes)."


Alaska
-In 1998, the Aces were primed to win a second grand slam but sacrificed it for flag and country, sending instead their key players Johnny Abarrientos, Kenneth Duremdes and Jojo Lastimosa along with its head coach Tim Cone, to form the core of the national team that aimed for the gold medal in the Bangkok Asian Games. The Centennial Team won the Jones Cup and copped the bronze in the Asiad but Alaska didn’t even make the playoffs of the Governors Cup.