Philippines Cadet/Developmental Team

[BJ_Reloaded2]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Yes, it's quite satisfying that something we were discussing here a few years ago is something that is actually going to be implemented. Long ago I mentioned that just having a few agents in "key" summer tournaments (15U and younger) would already do wonders. Then a "follow through/closer" guy. I stand by that statement.

I am doing a part in all of this, and it's the best fit for me. The role of the agents I think is more apt for younger guys willing/able to frequently travel.

If SBP decision-makers are lurking here, here's my idea...there are several AAU/travel club teams that are big enough and consistent enough that produce D1/NBA prospects. Just focus on the top 20 to 25 (the whole system is geared for them to get the best development). Have a relationship with them. Each of those clubs will have 1 guy that is familiar with all of its players (including ethnicity, family background, etc). That's just 20ish guys that they have to communicate with. I just pay attention to 2 of those type of clubs/teams and I've already identified several FIlam prospects (Vyctorious, Jared and I think I was the first to mention Sage).

Another trick is when attending the most elite tournaments, the whole arena would be packed with whites and blacks. If you see a Pinoy/Asian parent, strike up a conversation with them. If their kid is in that type of tournament, chances are the kid is elite.

Sir Mets,

don't get me wrong and to all IBNers here.

I'm trying to figure it out.

but the way you explain those stuff old and new post.

the impression is that, you've been there done that.

that is why I mentioned you because you know the landscape and the dynamics

the likes of Sir Dave and Sir Nardy already knows what's inside the SBP's backyard

they've been there done that...hmm I think you guys can play beautiful music together.."3 or 4 daw po yung planong kunin eh".

anyway it's no brainer the State of California is the hotbed, the so-called "melting pot" of the "Core of Filipino diaspora alongside Hawaii.

but no one(?) or only a few(?) are exploring the Central States the so-called "Mid-Western States".

someone whispers to me that there's also a lot of activities at that part due to large Filipino diaspora.

if someone thinks that being an agent is a piece of cake whose mission in life is to discover potential talents

oh dear..I'm just reading materials but I felt that the job is quite difficult and overwhelming if you had limited info about the terrains

yup communication skills are very important because it requires more talking and mingling around

thank goodness socmeds are one of the tools now but the old way is still the best way as far as face to face, person to person communication are concern.

if we watch that youtube interview and watch his hands movement "parang gusto nya sabihin lanusin buong west coast to east coast". trans. I think what Grandpa Chualay are saying "the possible marching order was to literally sweep all the backyard of Uncle Sam as part of that extensive nationwide talent search".

Sir Mets, I think Tumakbo, NABA, Fil-Nation Select and others only?) covers specific areas.

 

[IPC2]

I think we should focus on the following areas when looking for and developing prospects for FIBA:

Shot creation
Playmaking and initiating - can come from any position, in fact it should be encouraged for anyone under 202cm (6'7")
Perimeter defense (man-to-man and rotations) - for 196cm (6'5")+ wings
Defensive versatility (can guard multiple positions, can cover ground, can defend both the perimeter and the paint) - for 198cm (6'6")+ fours and wings
Interior defense - from the versatile four, or from 203cm (6'8")+ bigs, if there are any
Shooting from players who play 1, 2, 3, 4, and small-ball 5 (natural wings or fours who play 5) - this goes for defenders as well to develop 3&D players

 

[JAMSKIE2]

https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba...ilas-youth-is-find-tall-players-a795-20241202

What's the difference compared to the previous program?

We used to have a Gilas youth team head coach who was too obsessed with small ball & usually failed to draw some of the better talents in the youth level to Batang Gilas teams for whatever reason/s. That alone could make a significant difference. Good thing that he has resigned as head coach of Batang Gilas.

Since our youth team/program is now run by SMC people like Al Chua & LA Tenorio, I think the program now has enough resources & funding. Hindi gaya ng dati in which the Batang head coach was compelled to pick the least deserving player in the pool kasi yung tatay was among the major sponsors ng team.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I just hope that one day (hope it would come in a not so distant future) we can discover a kid in the US or elsewhere who will secure a Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday & that kid would turnout to be a go-to-guy type of a player in the mold of a Justin Brownlee or RHJ.

Muntik muntikan narin nating nakuha yung mga ganoong players with likes of a Jordan Clarkson, Jalen Green & Ron Harper, Jr. If only one or two of those players have secured Phi passport before their 16th birthday, biglang lakas sana ang Gilas.

 

[Dotch2]

I just hope that one day (hope it would come in a not so distant future) we can discover a kid in the US or elsewhere who will secure a Philippine passport prior to his 16th birthday & that kid would turnout to be a go-to-guy type of a player in the mold of a Justin Brownlee or RHJ.

Muntik muntikan narin nating nakuha yung mga ganoong players with likes of a Jordan Clarkson, Jalen Green & Ron Harper, Jr. If only one or two of those players have secured Phi passport before their 16th birthday, biglang lakas sana ang Gilas.

Ako naman, i have hoped for offsprings from former super imports that were born in the PH, raised in the US and were actually 5 stars materiasl. We didnt get lucky with RayRay even if he checked all the boxes, but still hoping we can catch lightning in a bottle next time. Billy Ray Bates, Tony Harris and the like got busy with the ladies back, how come their seeds didnt spawn out? Philander Rodman, why cant you produce another Dennis?

Still wishing the rumors that Kobe has a son from a former Pinay starlet, and rumors were, he used to visti visit him in the PH

 

[Metta2]

There's plenty enough undiscovered Filam talents in the US. Elite Filams have been born before, and will continue to be born in the future.

One interesting thing that is recently happening is that being part-Filipino is now seen as an advantage. The McCain recent declaration is not isolated, elite hoopers are now aware of how being part-Filipino is good for their brand.

SBP should capitalize on this and give benefits to guys like Mandaquit so many others of his level will be enticed to also secure a Ph passport. Perhaps NIL deals. The youth elite circle is relatively small and word goes around fast.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

There's plenty enough undiscovered Filam talents in the US. Elite Filams have been born before, and will continue to be born in the future.

One interesting thing that is recently happening is that being part-Filipino is now seen as an advantage. The McCain recent declaration is not isolated, elite hoopers are now aware of how being part-Filipino is good for their brand.

SBP should capitalize on this and give benefits to guys like Mandaquit so many others of his level will be enticed to also secure a Ph passport. Perhaps NIL deals. The youth elite circle is relatively small and word goes around fast.

Sir Mets,

speaking of "brand" we all know the NBA does the regular "Filipino Heritage Night more often nowadays.

and that would be a good marketing strategy to the SBP because NBA players who had Filipino lineage like JC, JG and J-McC

had a platform to expose and introduce Filipino brand in the heart of American society and also to the world.

I do hope high profile leagues like The US Div 1., MLB, NFL and NHL may do the same thing as part of their marketing strategy

considering there's a lot of pinoy hafus playing on those leagues.

yes I agree that the youth elite circle is relatively small and communication are ain't a problem "mabuladas and smooth talker ang pinoy eh".

but seriously, one of the best skillsets of us Filipinos is how we do the "Marketing thing", we are world-class on that.

and speaking about the JJ kid obtaining his PH pass before turning 16 despite playing in Team USA's Under team

may not encountered too much restrictions.

as we all know, the FIBA provision was "not until he/she reaches the age of 23 yrs. old".

as for the 18 yr. old Dylan and 20 yrs old Jared, the first order of the day is to obtain their respective docs ASAP

if they are interested and see were it goes.

as for the plan of hiring several agents...renowned scouts/agents like Jim Kelly and Tony Ronzone both had strong Filipino connection due to their wives and kids

is also a strong candidate..having a much wider network and connections all over.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Am I just being optimistic in thinking that Al Chua will be more assertive than his predecessor/s in convincing parents of Fil-am kids with good potential to have their respective kids secure Philippine passports prior to their kids' 16th birthdays? Maybe with Al Chua, certain incentives will be given to parents whose kids they will secure Phi passports before the kids reaching 16th birthday?

 

[IPC2]

We used to have a Gilas youth team head coach who was too obsessed with small ball & usually failed to draw some of the better talents in the youth level to Batang Gilas teams for whatever reason/s. That alone could make a significant difference. Good thing that he has resigned as head coach of Batang Gilas.

Since our youth team/program is now run by SMC people like Al Chua & LA Tenorio, I think the program now has enough resources & funding. Hindi gaya ng dati in which the Batang head coach was compelled to pick the least deserving player in the pool kasi yung tatay was among the major sponsors ng team.

When talking about small ball, again, I think the best positions to determine that are the 4 and 5, whether you have two wings at those positions, or a wing at 4 and/or a natural PF at the 5. You're a position up, but you play like a wing (who now currently plays 4) or a four (who is now the center), depending on your natural position. It gives you versatility on offense, defense, or both.

For examples in the NBA, D'Antoni's Suns used Shawn Marion, a natural wing, at the 4, and Amar'e Stoudemire, a natural four, at the 5. The Big 3 Heat had 6'8" Shane Battier or LeBron James, both natural wings, at the 4, and Bosh, a natural 4, at the 5. The mid-to-late 2010's Warriors had Harrison Barnes or KD, both natural wings, at the 4, and Draymond Green, a tweener, at the 5. In the last PBA Governors' Cup, Chot used a lineup with any combination of Oftana, Khobuntin, and RHJ as the 3 or 4, or even using all three in the 3, 4, and 5 spots. That's what I think small ball is.

 

[bluenote492]

Another 5'10 SG pretending to be PG in Escamis. Why can't our local 6'3" and above players realize they can play the same way?BB was introduced to us in 1910 and more than a century later we still don't have a local born 6'5 player who moves and plays like a guard.

 

[Metta2]

Another 5'10 SG pretending to be PG in Escamis. Why can't our local 6'3" and above players realize they can play the same way?BB was introduced to us in 1910 and more than a century later we still don't have a local born 6'5 player who moves and plays like a guard.

Short (but over-simplified) answer...dilution. Since average height is short, taller kids are forced to play as bigs even if they can play as guards. Recent Batang Gilas team illustrates it...Morales who is a guard in the US had to play as a big.

Also, for young kids, shorter kids will tend to be more agile/coordinated than those projected to be taller. Coaches fall into this "fool's gold" mindset of giving the keys to kids who will end up eventually shorter. Our propensity for picking "hinog" over upside potential...lack of foresight.

 

[IPC2]

If only Kevin Quiambao started playing as a wing (as a small forward to be soecific) at an earlier age, he would be a significantly better player, as a national team player in particular. The recent season 87 of the UAAP showed how limited KQ's moves in the perimeter becoz he played as a big man at an early age. If only he started playing as a wingman some 7 yrs ago, I think he would be more fluid playing that position now.

If you look at it, iba pa rin yung mga galaw ng natural wingmen like a Dwight Ramos, a Calvin Oftana (this despite Oftana's struggle with Gilas) or a Ken Tuffin. These guys are a lot more fluid in their moves in the perimeter.

even if College development has improved on some schools, grassroots is still very much antiquated in development.

now if we can use that blue print to our youth.. they can use the tamayo blue print or a Kquiam blue print..

Maybe developing every kid to start with a perimeter skillset and an emphasis on mobility first over strength is a start.

 

[TheRodster212]

Maybe developing every kid to start with a perimeter skillset and an emphasis on mobility first over strength is a start.

The idea of strength I think is different, strength is more related to force. Kids need to be strong to be able to take contact as well as avoid injury and do things. Not to mention being strong in whole body( core, posterior chain etc)will improve things like speed and mobility in general.

 

[Metta2]

The idea of strength I think is different, strength is more related to force. Kids need to be strong to be able to take contact as well as avoid injury and do things. Not to mention being strong in whole body( core, posterior chain etc)will improve things like speed and mobility in general.

That's the optimal physique for basketball, wiry-strong. The problem locally is, because of physicality, guys have to bulk up (increase mass). And now it's becoming as early as early high school that kids are bulking up.

And main problem is...if strength is the only "strength" of a young player (bully-ball against smaller kids), once everyone else matures and catches up to his size, then he's left with nothing. And a lot of clueless people don't realize that a lot of eventually short players usually get growth spurts and muscles early. As young kids, these (eventual < 5'10 players) has a good combination of size, strength and coordination than those projected to grow a lot taller (who are usually lampa before training).

 

[IPC2]

One thing more notable on our current Gilas team is that it is very versatile. It can go big (but slower) with a starting 5 of Fajardo, Kai, JB, Dwight Ramos & Newsome. This is really a big line up especially in the Asia-Oceania level. It can also go small (but quick & flexible) with AJ Edu, JB, Dwight, Newsome & Iskati.

This is quite a significant improvement from the past iterations of the national team. 10 years ago we have only 2 options as far as the size of our 5 players on the floor. We can go with a small line up, or we can go with even a smaller line-up.

If we compare our 2013-2015 Gilas under coach Chot Reyes with the current Gilas team under coach Tim Cone, we can see the significant diffeerence in terms of size.

​Hopefully, versatility will be instilled in our youth teams as well. 198-203cm (6'6"-6'8") versatile tweeners, maybe 198-201cm (6'6"-6'7") players who can play 3 and 4 (ala Will Navarro), and 193-198cm (6'4"-6'6") players who can play 2 and 3. Heck, maybe we might see 188-193cm (6'2"-6'4") combo guards as well. Hope we can profile and train players like these.

We will especially need versatility on defense. Hope this can be a priority as well.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

​Hopefully, versatility will be instilled in our youth teams as well. 198-203cm (6'6"-6'8") versatile tweeners, maybe 198-201cm (6'6"-6'7") players who can play 3 and 4 (ala Will Navarro), and 193-198cm (6'4"-6'6") players who can play 2 and 3. Heck, maybe we might see 188-193cm (6'2"-6'4") combo guards as well. Hope we can profile and train players like these.

We will especially need versatility on defense. Hope this can be a priority as well.

I hope that someday we will have at least 2 natural shooting guards (as I kept on saying, I'd like to make a distinction between a shooting guard & a small forward) standing 6-foot-4/6-foot-5. Hope Jacob Bayla develops into a national team material shooting guard. Hope he develops a decent 3-pt shooting & continue to improve on defense.

We really need to improve our size at the 2-guard or shooting guard position. Right now we have Dwight Ramos who stands 6-foot-4/6-foot-5 as our good size 2-guard. After him, our 2-guards are just 6-foot-1/6-foot-2 in CJ Perez & Chris Newsome.

 

[IPC2]

Basketball is a tall man's game. Defense wins you championships not offense. You won't win without the rebounds and the ability to defend. Only a nitwit coach wouldn't use bigs properly. Small ball only works if your players are special and aren't terribly disadvantaged across all positions in terms of height. Golden State with Curry, Thompson, and Durant didn't use "true traditional bigs" but that trio is an unstoppable offensive juggernaut that can only be defended single coverage because a double team will open up one of them and that is guaranteed 2 or 3 points. Heck, Curry gets double teamed near the halfcourt and still scores. A good tall team will always beat a good small team.

I do think that playing small ball does have its merits, especially at the youth and grassroots level. When you don't have a good bigman that's really big (I think around 206cm (6'9")), your best bet at development will have to play small. Although I myself prefer a bigger lineup (as in a lineup with a big 4 and a big 5), I'm advocating for small ball with tall players in our context (198cm (6'6")+ fours, 196cm (6'5")+ wings, every player below 193cm (6'4") should be a guard) because our tallest are around 198-203cm (6'6"-6'8"). We don't really have that many bigs that are 206cm (6'9") and taller. Hope Yap and Calanasan turn out well, though.

 

[IPC2]

I do think that playing small ball does have its merits, especially at the youth and grassroots level. When you don't have a good bigman that's really big (I think around 206cm (6'9")), your best bet at development will have to play small. Although I myself prefer a bigger lineup (as in a lineup with a big 4 and a big 5), I'm advocating for small ball with tall players in our context (198cm (6'6")+ fours, 196cm (6'5")+ wings, every player below 193cm (6'4") should be a guard) because our tallest are around 198-203cm (6'6"-6'8"). We don't really have that many bigs that are 206cm (6'9") and taller. Hope Yap and Calanasan turn out well, though.

Furthermore, I think grassroots programs here should start by training every kid they take in as guards and maybe play a positionless offense where everybody has the opportunity to take the role of the guard, and have everyone guard the perimeter on defense. Encourage switching, especially among the taller players, and discourage zones until the senior high school level. As for rebounding, gang rebound na lang, and everybody should learn to screen and box out, as well as guard skills. By playing a smaller position early on, we increase our possibility to have taller players at the 2 (combo guard if 192cm or shorter; otherwise, OK as a 2/3), 3 (196cm+), and 4 (198cm+ if athletic; otherwise 201cm+) spots.​

 

[ccharmed2]

Smallball is just a philosophy and surprise factor. It was first used when some coach noted that he had short but both athletically superior AND scoring superior players that the other teams cannot match. It can lead to surprise wins in the series of tiring elimination games where the other teams are not expected to go all-out.

It is now 2025, and not highly gifted michael jordan's time anymore. At the fiba and olympic levels, other teams have vastly improved their frontline and perimeter power players. Including the philippines.

Top national teams, aside from having at least 8-10 very good players unlike even the many nba mediocre teams, are weakened mostly by lack of cohesion due to hurried pickup team formation and lack of practice against top tier teams.

Now, not even the highly regarded american national players and coaches are not extremely stupid enough to use smallball tactics against top-ten world teams in material games, unless they had enough wins to already qualify for the next higher level of battles. Unlike in practice games decades ago, the best nba-powered american national teams cannot even win all their practice games against strong nts anymore.

Why, even the philippines need only to play with three or four players from top ten nba teams to consistently win asian championships. Not even the american nt can say and do that. If ever the usa national team use only 3-4 nba players today, they will be crushed in humiliating ways.

 

[IPC2]

Smallball is just a philosophy and surprise factor. It was first used when some coach noted that he had short but both athletically superior AND scoring superior players that the other teams cannot match. It can lead to surprise wins in the series of tiring elimination games where the other teams are not expected to go all-out.

It is now 2025, and not highly gifted michael jordan's time anymore. At the fiba and olympic levels, other teams have vastly improved their frontline and perimeter power players. Including the philippines.

Top national teams, aside from having at least 8-10 very good players unlike even the many nba mediocre teams, are weakened mostly by lack of cohesion due to hurried pickup team formation and lack of practice against top tier teams.

Now, not even the highly regarded american national players and coaches are not extremely stupid enough to use smallball tactics against top-ten world teams in material games, unless they had enough wins to already qualify for the next higher level of battles. Unlike in practice games decades ago, the best nba-powered american national teams cannot even win all their practice games against strong nts anymore.

Why, even the philippines need only to play with three or four players from top ten nba teams to consistently win asian championships. Not even the american nt can say and do that. If ever the usa national team use only 3-4 nba players today, they will be crushed in humiliating ways.

I see small ball as a development tool for tall wings (at least 196cm) and tweeners (at least 198cm) in the absence of bigmen. Usually, our tallest locals are 6'5"-6'8". If there is no other taller player, they'll have to play center, and sometimes not learning another position at that. We have undersized centers, fours, and wings, e. Instead of small ball, we get undersized traditional lineups in local basketball.

Now, if a team has good enough bigs that are at least 206cm (6'9") tall, they can run a lineup with a four measuring around 198-204cm (6'6"-6'8"), even taller, as well as a tall wing. If we don't use a positionless small ball philosophy in developing players, I think you need a big center to develop a big lineup. Generally, without players like big imports/FSA's, Kai, AJ, June Mar, Japeth, Blatche, or Ange manning the 5, I think it will be tougher to develop bigger forwards at 3 and 4.