Philippines Cadet/Developmental Team

[sroth38392]

That was true also for 2013-14. Tab was part of the coaching staff too.

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I think nga, we should be teaching every kid how to dribble. DDO c be a good offense for development, just not the Reyes version of relying exclusively on isolations and PnRs with guard ballhandlers. Just preach player movement leading up to a dribble-drive, not just iso.

Defense, no question. We have hustle and like to pride ourselves on physicality, use it for D.

Honestly? The Chot Reyes DDO is simply a bad system because it relies on having NBA-caliber talent in order to work. We obviously don’t have an abundance of that outside Clarkson.

The Castro + Blatche 1-2 punch did wonders but it wasn’t enough to elevate our level to World-level competitiveness. Who is our 1-2 punch this time? Clarkson + ???

That’s the problem. Kai is not a reliable go-to guy. Clarkson is rarely available. Brownlee is not getting any younger.

Our team composition is simply not loaded with NBA-level talent to emulate a real DDO system. What we really need is motion offense and good ball movement to create offensive options.

 

[IPC2]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

My take is, this would only be possible (maintain a core of 8 to 9 players in a 5 to 6 years cycle so as to establish cohesion/chemistry) if the bulk of that core would be players not playing in the PBA. It should be players playing in Japan, South Korea, Australia or elsewhere basta hindi sa PBA.

As I've said a No. of times, the more Pinoy marque or quality players playing abroad, the better for Philippine basketball.

PBA is the poison that is killing Philippine basketball.

Yeah, I agree. Maintain a core of players that are continuously available. If that means a core that is spread across Japan, SoKor, Europe, and Aussie, so be it.

We have to start identifying pieces of our core soon after the WC. Kai, AJ, Dwight, Parks, and some others. Recall players like Carl, Balti, Heading, RJ. And we need a new coach that can integrate young pieces like Francis Lopez, Mason Amos, maybe Mark Belmonte and Jared Bahay with our veterans like Parks. Preferably someone with a good eye for defense, because with how we view hustle, we should be focusing on that end. Will Navarro sana, but he's stuck in the PBA for the forseeable future.

Honestly, this starts with a youth program, with a core that had been playing together since they were kids.​ Wala tayong emphasis diyan masyado, e, even though we're a good Asian youth team. The next SBP heads have to focus on this, instead of just relying on talented players for the senior team.

 

[IPC2]

3/D is a weakness of the local PH game. Our 3/Ds in the PBA are basically 6'2. That's why we try to convert them to SGs or PGs for GIlas. Tab's team had tall SFs and taller SF/PFs. But this is Chot's team now and the only 6'5 and above SF he will play is Dwight Ramos. But he will probably play him half of the time as a 4.

3/D is basically getting a tall guy to guard and play the perimeter. The first 3/D guy probably was Bruce Bowen. He was not skilled enough to play the perimeter and not strong enough to play PF. But the Spurs took him and made him the stopper for the top perimeter guys. They made him practice the 3 so that he could space the floor. But note he could not dribble really well.

This is the same as Tab's principle. Simplify the skillset of the SF so you can train a taller guy to play it. But that is the opposite of Chots system. The 3 guy needs to be able drive and create for others. That's why we get shorter 3 players in his teams.

This is honestly a weakness of the Philippine development system. If you're told to play a position, you're taught the skills of only that specific position. We should be emphasizing handles, passing, decision-making, and agility for players that are 6'5" and under. That's why 6'1"-6'3" players don't know how to play point, because they're pigeonholed to the skills of a 2/3 or a 3/2 in their development years. Decision-making is almost always left to the 1.

That's why I think every player 6'5" and under has to learn decision-making, passing, handling, shooting, and perimeter defense as well as speed, lateral quickness, and agility. So we can have other players that are able to bring the ball up, not just the point guard.

Considering how basketball has become positionless now, even in FIBA, we shouldn't keep pigeonholing players at a certain position as a general rule.

 

[Metta2]

This is honestly a weakness of the Philippine development system. If you're told to play a position, you're taught the skills of only that specific position. We should be emphasizing handles, passing, decision-making, and agility for players that are 6'5" and under. That's why 6'1"-6'3" players don't know how to play point, because they're pigeonholed to the skills of a 2/3 or a 3/2 in their development years. Decision-making is almost always left to the 1.

That's why I think every player 6'5" and under has to learn decision-making, passing, handling, shooting, and perimeter defense as well as speed, lateral quickness, and agility. So we can have other players that are able to bring the ball up, not just the point guard.

Considering how basketball has become positionless now, even in FIBA, we shouldn't keep pigeonholing players at a certain position as a general rule.

This is true up to a certain point.

It's true that in the past, we haven't been teaching versatile skills to all players. That's why most current bigs are limited. The problem here is that changes are slow because of lack of forward-thinking.

The truth is, now all over the country, there are a lot of copycat skills trainers/coaches who are training kids of all sizes proper guard skills. It's something of a recent phenomenon so the kids who went through this type of training are only starting to appear. That's why you see the LSGH bigs, all the tall Phenom kids and all the tall Pampanga kids slowly showing up who are very tall and have guard skills.

I'd say in a couple more years, there will be plenty more of those lengthy and skilled players. The problem is, if there's another trend that the rest of the world is already onto right now, we will only realize it again several years later.

 

[Rds2]

This is true up to a certain point.

It's true that in the past, we haven't been teaching versatile skills to all players. That's why most current bigs are limited. The problem here is that changes are slow because of lack of forward-thinking.

The truth is, now all over the country, there are a lot of copycat skills trainers/coaches who are training kids of all sizes proper guard skills. It's something of a recent phenomenon so the kids who went through this type of training are only starting to appear. That's why you see the LSGH bigs, all the tall Phenom kids and all the tall Pampanga kids slowly showing up who are very tall and have guard skills.

I'd say in a couple more years, there will be plenty more of those lengthy and skilled players. The problem is, if there's another trend that the rest of the world is already onto right now, we will only realize it again several years later.

UAAP is actually lessening the physicality allowed and allowing tall lanky players to play as perimeter players. The question is will the PBA follow suit? With GSM now dominant we have a tall SF/PF in Malonzo and a talk SG/SF in Gray. Will this be the trend or just temporary? The Junemar era was not kind to tall perimeter players. All kinds of handchecking driving to the basket was allowed. Worse strong fouls were still condoned. Will this change? I hope acceping Bay Area in the next season is a sign the PBA will allow tall perimeter players to thrive.

 

[C2Hamm2]

UAAP is actually lessening the physicality allowed and allowing tall lanky players to play as perimeter players. The question is will the PBA follow suit? With GSM now dominant we have a tall SF/PF in Malonzo and a talk SG/SF in Gray. Will this be the trend or just temporary? The Junemar era was not kind to tall perimeter players. All kinds of handchecking driving to the basket was allowed. Worse strong fouls were still condoned. Will this change? I hope acceping Bay Area in the next season is a sign the PBA will allow tall perimeter players to thrive.

i dont watch PBA but does all team have 2-3 similarly built\skilled players? are there enough players in the pipe line that will\can be drafted in the PBA in the next 3-4 years? if so, then PBA can probably tweak some of its rules to "highlight" these talents. but if these players are limited to a couple of teams, probably not. whats the use of changing how the game is called if it will only benefit 10ish players from the whole league?

 

[Rds2]

i dont watch PBA but does all team have 2-3 similarly built\skilled players? are there enough players in the pipe line that will\can be drafted in the PBA in the next 3-4 years? if so, then PBA can probably tweak some of its rules to "highlight" these talents. but if these players are limited to a couple of teams, probably not. whats the use of changing how the game is called if it will only benefit 10ish players from the whole league?

There have been some tall SFs in the UAAP but up to now they have not flourished in the PBA and to be honest they were not top tier stars in the UAAP as well. What's exciting in the UAAP now is that even 6'5 and up homegrowns are playing as lanky SFs. In the PBA, only GSM has had success with tall SFs, 6'5 and up, so far. Of course there is North Port but it is a farm team. What is encouraging though is Bay Dragons continued participation in the league.

It was obvious that GSM's tall SFs in Gray and Malonzo and mobile bigs in CS and Japeth were the best match-up to BAD's plethora of tall SF and their 6'9 mobile import, Nicholson. While there are no notable healthy tall SF in the draft, there are a lot of mobile bigs. We will see how skilled and mobile bigs like Villegas and Baltazar do in their rookie season. Teams like SMB need them to matchup against Nicholson and others though. So there is hope that they will be given playing time and not simply asked to bulk up, as is usually the case.

 

[Metta2]

i dont watch PBA but does all team have 2-3 similarly built\skilled players? are there enough players in the pipe line that will\can be drafted in the PBA in the next 3-4 years? if so, then PBA can probably tweak some of its rules to "highlight" these talents. but if these players are limited to a couple of teams, probably not. whats the use of changing how the game is called if it will only benefit 10ish players from the whole league?

Tweaking pba rules to veer away from 80's style officiating will not only benefit a handful of lanky SFs. Just like in the nba, I think the ones who will most benefit are the quick and skilled players. Just like how Curry is playing in the perfect era for him. Shooting will also be at a premium so all players will be forced to develop shooting skills. Defenses will be forced to be built on speed more than on physicality. Coaching will also be more dynamic if pace and space becomes the norm.

The most immediate beneficiaries are the Filams (especially the younger batches) who grew up with this style. Their skill level will become more evident when you take away over-physicality.

The game will also be more exciting because there will be more dunks. Dunking in the current playing style is very risky.

 

[IPC2]

The thing with Ateneo is, the system is drilled into all the players so the PG is somewhat replaceable. Although the talent level of Padrigao is way higher than whoever will replace him, the team will still execute. Just like when Belangel suddenly left.

Shows the importance of having continuity and chemistry in having a long-term system-based program, personnel are interchangeable. Something our national program should implement.

True. That's why there has to be changes around the SBP management. Someone who will stick to installing a long-term system program that wins. I'd prefer a strong defense with versatile 6'4"-6'7" defenders and a rim protector, and hustles hard on rotations and closeouts (which are present in club level, but in the NT level, present only at times), and at the same time, deadly in transition and retaining our propensity to go 1-on-1, just needs to be quicker.

 

[C2Hamm2]

Tweaking pba rules to veer away from 80's style officiating will not only benefit a handful of lanky SFs. Just like in the nba, I think the ones who will most benefit are the quick and skilled players. Just like how Curry is playing in the perfect era for him. Shooting will also be at a premium so all players will be forced to develop shooting skills. Defenses will be forced to be built on speed more than on physicality. Coaching will also be more dynamic if pace and space becomes the norm.

The most immediate beneficiaries are the Filams (especially the younger batches) who grew up with this style. Their skill level will become more evident when you take away over-physicality.

The game will also be more exciting because there will be more dunks. Dunking in the current playing style is very risky.

what specific rule does PBA have that prevent this? again, i dont watch so this is a legit question.
the rise of curry et al started when the league was preventing Shaq to dominate. there were rules prior to him playing in the league but allowing the zone back and strictly implementing hand checking really gave shooters a whole lot more freedom and creativity to launch their shots. the last I heard, and i got corrected here in this forum, PBA already allow zone defense. and yet, we dont seem to produce plays specifically targeting shooters consistently and not just use them as kickout targets.

long story short, wont just using FIBA game rules be easier? since the dream team till now, we can still see players doing ISO if they wanted to. of course, the result will differ depending on the players but still doable if that is what some Filipinos want.

 

[Metta2]

what specific rule does PBA have that prevent this? again, i dont watch so this is a legit question.
the rise of curry et al started when the league was preventing Shaq to dominate. there were rules prior to him playing in the league but allowing the zone back and strictly implementing hand checking really gave shooters a whole lot more freedom and creativity to launch their shots. the last I heard, and i got corrected here in this forum, PBA already allow zone defense. and yet, we dont seem to produce plays specifically targeting shooters consistently and not just use them as kickout targets.

long story short, wont just using FIBA game rules be easier? since the dream team till now, we can still see players doing ISO if they wanted to. of course, the result will differ depending on the players but still doable if that is what some Filipinos want.

Not just pba but basically the whole local basketball scene in varying degrees. A lot of things that are allowed here are no longer allowed in the US. The grabbing, moving bumps and two-hands on your man inside are prevalent here. In a nutshell, defending "using the hands" is the norm more than "defending with the feet." So strength/weight is favored over speed and agility.

The ban on handchecks was indeed the catalyst of change in the US. Again, the change from defending with hands to defending with the feet.

The lack of shooters in the country is another debate (personally I think it may be economically-related, lack of courts to have shooting practices growing up). Up to now, overhelping and preventing the drive is the norm and still players do not take advantage. The only team I notice making this type of defense pay is ateneo.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Hope Ateneo's Kai Balungay & Chris Koon gets FIBA exemption in the very near future. Both are good materials for Gilas in the near future. Balungay is a 6-foot-6 stretch-four with some athleticism while Koon is a 6-foot-5 natural small forward with a decent 3-pt. shooting. What is good about these 2 players is that they are playing under a very good & well structured system under coach Tab Baldwin, which puts good emphasis on defense & teamwork.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

So it seems that our aspiration as a fan from the beginning of having a much longer preparation and exposure is still a pipe dream.

With the statement about “suntok sa buwan” it seems that the Program Director already raise the white flag because as much as we want a strong foundation as far as forming a competitive team in the same breath as those from the much higher rank teams, it aint’ possible because I don’t think those major stakeholders are sold to the idea of that “18 months preparation”.

Nakaka iyak ang statement na ito sa totoo lang.

“Nakaka-inggit nga sila, they had eighteen months training, competing, and living together. That’s really the formula. I just hope… Perhaps it’s a suntok sa buwan wish na magkaroon tayo ng ganung situation,” Reyes told CNN Sportsdesk on Wednesday.

“Eighteen months preparation, yun talaga yung blueprint.”

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https://tiebreakertimes.com.ph/tbt/...ght-formula-in-preparing-for-world-cup/277599

 

[Sikatrix2]

So it seems that our aspiration as a fan from the beginning of having a much longer preparation and exposure is still a pipe dream.

With the statement about “suntok sa buwan” it seems that the Program Director already raise the white flag because as much as we want a strong foundation as far as forming a competitive team in the same breath as those from the much higher rank teams, it aint’ possible because I don’t think those major stakeholders are sold to the idea of that “18 months preparation”.

Nakaka iyak ang statement na ito sa totoo lang.


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https://tiebreakertimes.com.ph/tbt/...ght-formula-in-preparing-for-world-cup/277599

This is just unrealistic at the mens pro level. Look what happened to the recent Gilas draftees. Heading left for Japan and the program died.

Im a broken record on this but if I were in charge, Id be busy fixing our messed up cadet system. Really prioritizing our youth prospects.

 

[reamily2]

Back then I was saying gap between junior years and senior team is lacking but thanks to a strong collegiate elague we were able to have national team quality players and even pro ready ones.. now its time for pba to adjust and easl will be imo a big help..

Cadet system imo is there believe me..imagine our big 4 college teams is having gilas like preps (if not better) for their uaap season..

The pba big wigs cant get it (if this college teams can why our pba teams can't shows you the gap in competition)

 

[Sikatrix2]

Back then I was saying gap between junior years and senior team is lacking but thanks to a strong collegiate elague we were able to have national team quality players and even pro ready ones.. now its time for pba to adjust and easl will be imo a big help..

Cadet system imo is there believe me..imagine our big 4 college teams is having gilas like preps (if not better) for their uaap season..

The pba big wigs cant get it (if this college teams can why our pba teams can't shows you the gap in competition)

Cadet system should be producing D1 level talent. Not UAAP level talent. Thats how you develop NBA level talent. Start by maximizing young talent to the point wherein the UAAP doesn't make sense.

 

[DAdmiral2]

Cadet system should be producing D1 level talent. Not UAAP level talent. Thats how you develop NBA level talent. Start by maximizing young talent to the point wherein the UAAP doesn't make sense.

True , we have structure and system issues, that's fundamental for sustainability.
while we can't replicate the NCC or Filipinas long term program, we certainly can get pieces of it that work.

Essentially the elite national team prospects shoold be playing in overseas leagues. This should be the aspiration of our youth, with the ones not good enough remaining at home in the premier domestic league (which to me should be a hybrid collegiate age and pro players league (like club teams in Europe), let's not pretend Philippines colleges are amateur .
(that doesn't mean players studies shouldn't be subsidized, but this should be optional .
the thinking that some can't play for poor grades in a really commercial semi pro league (UAAP) is hypocrisy.
Take away the labels , they are a pro team, who happen an affolaittion with a school. (Let's not Fool ourselves)

 

[reamily2]

Cadet system should be producing D1 level talent. Not UAAP level talent. Thats how you develop NBA level talent. Start by maximizing young talent to the point wherein the UAAP doesn't make sense.

The nba or div 1 players are produced pre 19 years old so ot should be covered by the sbp u16 and u18 program

 

[Metta2]

Cadet system should be producing D1 level talent. Not UAAP level talent. Thats how you develop NBA level talent. Start by maximizing young talent to the point wherein the UAAP doesn't make sense.

When you say cadet, do you mean as early as elementary? Because that is how early it takes to produce D1, much more NBA talent.

AJ Edu is someone we have had the chance to follow at a young age. At a young age (12 or younger?) we have already seen videos of him training. That early training combined with his size and genes was still barely enough to get him to a D1 school.

Now contrast that with our supposedly D1-sized (6'8"+) prospects who are already 16 or older and yet are still painfully raw. People do not realize the gaps in level that we have to overcome. The old way of waiting until high school to start seriously training prospects is a thing of the past. Europeans raised the bar so high when it comes to technical skills by training really early and with really smart methods.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

This is just unrealistic at the mens pro level. Look what happened to the recent Gilas draftees. Heading left for Japan and the program died.

Im a broken record on this but if I were in charge, Id be busy fixing our messed up cadet system. Really prioritizing our youth prospects.

Yes Sir, the bottomline here really is the grassroot development wherein as a National Federation of the sports it is not really a “suntok sa buwan” if the mindset is to focus on the very root on how to achieve a very successful national basketball program but if it is otherwise and rather focus only on the marketing and promotional value of the sports therefore we cannot achieve what we, as a fan are aspiring for.

Even though we are very critical with the SBP, I’m still hoping that after this World Cup, they will eventually focus on grassroot development because this is really the ultimate key. Now as for his statement about “Nakaka inggit” because of the success of our Womens Football team’s 18 month preparation and his previous statement that the next SEA Games must be compose of Cadet players, then lets hold on that statement by the Program Director if he really means it or it’s just another statement of his usual soap box.

As per Sir Dave, it’s all about eco-system if we could fix that then we will be good.​