Philippine PBA Trades, Releases, Sign-ups, Rumours (vol. III)

[JAMSKIE2]

I don't know about the Lastimosa-Distrito incident but what I can remember was the Lastimosa-Jaworski "girian" during the mid-90's in which Jolas really didnt back down from the tussle. Not too many players really would want to engage against a Sonny Jaworski in a tussle at that time. Jaworski was really the most popular PBA player at the time. But Jolas has really among the strongest personality in the PBA during his time. Jolas' pride was even higher than that of his contemporaries like Alvin Patrimonio, Allan Caidic or a Benjie Paras.

Jolas was like, "Wala akong pakialam kung si Jaworski ka", which fir me was a good mentality.

 

[IPC2]

I'm in my 40s. I still remember my early years in UP. It wasnt rare to see girl students reading basketball mags with Patrimonio and the like on the cover. I still think the reality check on our homegrown heroes brought on by the Filfors was the first blow against the PBA. The effect is still felt now. How can we patronize the PBA players when most of them are not competitive in Fiba?

I dont believe that the PBA was inherently physical before. Look at the bodies of Fernandez, Atoy Co and the like. Look at the pace of those years. We played high pace basketball. I believe it was old Gordon's gin that popularized Gulang ball in the PBA. Old Jaworski, the fat Loyzaga brothers. Distrito the Sahod master/Destroyer of careers. I believe it was the fan's love for underdogs that made the PBA turn a blind eye to the excessive physicality of Jaworski and co. Guys like Patrimonio and Codinera didnt need to be excessively physical. And again the old bigs like Fernandez didnt have the heft to do it.

I think the PBA again allowed excessive physicality to somewhat counter the Filfor invasion. There was no other way to stop guys like Asi, Menk and Alvarado otherwise. However, this changed a bit with JF's appearance. However, instead of excessive physicality on the post the PBA turned a blind eye to hand checks. This was the only way a slow tired JF could keep up against a driving Castro in the 4th. The problem with this though was obviously it is an illegal defensive move. JF time and again was exposed laterally in Fiba. Again, his best defensive showing was when he slimmed down for the OQT. He was fast enough to switch against the guards. Of course they still scored on him but not to the level they did in the past. However, that was short lived. Tab was kicked out. JF was allowed to gain weight again in the PBA and never gained the added mobility in the OQT in the subsequent Fiba tourneys.

GSM's solid performance against BAD was a good sign of a change of direction in the PBA. A slim forward like Malonzo was allowed to flourish. Let's see if that continues in this season.

The PBA does have players that can compete in FIBA. Problem is, a lot of them are 30 and above. Newsome, June Mar, Terrence, Scottie, Perez (this November 17), Abueva. Oftana, Navarro, and Malonzo are capable, maybe Mamuyac and Tio, but that's all the capable U29 players of the PBA.

 

[Rds2]

I don't know about the Lastimosa-Distrito incident but what I can remember was the Lastimosa-Jaworski "girian" during the mid-90's in which Jolas really didnt back down from the tussle. Not too many players really would want to engage against a Sonny Jaworski in a tussle at that time. Jaworski was really the most popular PBA player at the time. But Jolas has really among the strongest personality in the PBA during his time. Jolas' pride was even higher than that of his contemporaries like Alvin Patrimonio, Allan Caidic or a Benjie Paras.

Jolas was like, "Wala akong pakialam kung si Jaworski ka", which fir me was a good mentality.

I think Jawo also did a slit-throat motion during the 90s. An opposing player was down I think and was taking time to recover. Jawo made a slit-throat motion, as if asking, "Patay naba?" Already dead?

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I think Jawo also did a slit-throat motion during the 90s. An opposing player was down I think and was taking time to recover. Jawo made a slit-throat motion, as if asking, "Patay naba?" Already dead?

That player is Allan Caidic who banged his head on the floor on a bad fall.
Jawo was criticised for such slit throat motion & his "patay na ba" statement. But Jawo reasoned out that such motion & statement was taken out of context. He said he was complaining of the PBA's lack of emergency measure that would deal on freak accidents like what happened to Caidic. Well, since he is Sonny Jaworski a lot of people believed him, especially his legions of fans. But as for me, I wasn't born yesterday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_YnfB6OL0&pp=ygU4SmF3b3Jza2kncyBzbGl0LXR ocm9hdCBtb3Rpb24gYWZ0ZXIgYW4gQWxsYW4gQ2FpZGljIGZhb Gw%3D

 

[C2Hamm2]

I havent seen it myself. But I heard Lastimosa was one of the victims of Distrito. Is this correct? Is it possible he developed his jumper to avoid sahod?

I dont remember a memoravle jolas distrito moment. Distrito got banned for under cutting cariaso

 

[C2Hamm2]

I don't know about the Lastimosa-Distrito incident but what I can remember was the Lastimosa-Jaworski "girian" during the mid-90's in which Jolas really didnt back down from the tussle. Not too many players really would want to engage against a Sonny Jaworski in a tussle at that time. Jaworski was really the most popular PBA player at the time. But Jolas has really among the strongest personality in the PBA during his time. Jolas' pride was even higher than that of his contemporaries like Alvin Patrimonio, Allan Caidic or a Benjie Paras.

Jolas was like, "Wala akong pakialam kung si Jaworski ka", which fir me was a good mentality.

Jawo threw an uppercut to jolas. Jolas started as a higher flyer player and then became a shooter during his prime till he retired.i dont think it was because of this incident, but this was remembered by jawo fans.

 

[Supremo302]

Year long I think

It is life long as long as they don't release you, you won't be able to sign with another PBA team.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Jawo threw an uppercut to jolas. Jolas started as a higher flyer player and then became a shooter during his prime till he retired.i dont think it was because of this incident, but this was remembered by jawo fans.

Does this suggest that Jswo was indeed a "dirty" player? I think only a few fans would label Jawo as a dirty player becoz he is "Robert Jaworski" - the most beloved & most popular PBA player of all time.

But I think for a neutral & rational basketball enthusiast, Jawo would strike him/her as a dirty player.

Para sa akin kasi, it's just normal to be tough, very physical & tenacious since these things are very much part of the game. But if a player starts to hurt his opponent intentionally, or worse doing those under cut or "sahod" or tripping the opposing player, ibang isturya na yan becoz such acts would place the opposing player in the risk of sustaining serious injury, injury that might even end his basketball career.

I saw Jawo punching the stomach of an opposing player in a game way back the mid-90's.

 

[Metta2]

Does this suggest that Jswo was indeed a "dirty" player? I think only a few fans would label Jawo as a dirty player becoz he is "Robert Jaworski" - the most beloved & most popular PBA player of all time.

But I think for a neutral & rational basketball enthusiast, Jawo would strike him/her as a dirty player.

Para sa akin kasi, it's just normal to be tough, very physical & tenacious since these things are very much part of the game. But if a player starts to hurt his opponent intentionally, or worse doing those under cut or "sahod" or tripping the opposing player, ibang isturya na yan becoz such acts would place the opposing player in the risk of sustaining serious injury, injury that might even end his basketball career.

I saw Jawo punching the stomach of an opposing player in a game way back the mid-90's.

Jawo was tough and dirty. While playing for the national team against Korea, he was guarding a knockdown shooter (I forgot who). This was a long time ago so players don't have textbook shooting mechanics, the Korean would put his feet together whenever he goes for a jumpshot (similar to Guadana of LPU). Jawo being Jawo caught on to this and employed the "foot on the landing spot" move to great effect. He not only put his feet on the landing spot but his knee was up to the groin of the shooter. Then you have the usual spitting, elbows and bodychecks (he was big for his time hence the nickname The Barreling Big J).

That being said, it was kind of the norm back then just like how the ncaa is right now.

Regarding Jolas...yes he learned early on that to prolong his career, he needed to play ground-based. One of his early nicknames was the "Helicopter" because he was a high flyer with good hangtime. In the pba, he became a midrange shooter and was always controlled. That means he most likely had a close-call with a serious injury that made him cautious. On a side note, one of the worst falls of Samboy was because of Jolas who bumped him from behind when he was airborne.

 

[Metta2]

I'm in my 40s. I still remember my early years in UP. It wasnt rare to see girl students reading basketball mags with Patrimonio and the like on the cover. I still think the reality check on our homegrown heroes brought on by the Filfors was the first blow against the PBA. The effect is still felt now. How can we patronize the PBA players when most of them are not competitive in Fiba?

I dont believe that the PBA was inherently physical before. Look at the bodies of Fernandez, Atoy Co and the like. Look at the pace of those years. We played high pace basketball. I believe it was old Gordon's gin that popularized Gulang ball in the PBA. Old Jaworski, the fat Loyzaga brothers. Distrito the Sahod master/Destroyer of careers. I believe it was the fan's love for underdogs that made the PBA turn a blind eye to the excessive physicality of Jaworski and co. Guys like Patrimonio and Codinera didnt need to be excessively physical. And again the old bigs like Fernandez didnt have the heft to do it.

I think the PBA again allowed excessive physicality to somewhat counter the Filfor invasion. There was no other way to stop guys like Asi, Menk and Alvarado otherwise. However, this changed a bit with JF's appearance. However, instead of excessive physicality on the post the PBA turned a blind eye to hand checks. This was the only way a slow tired JF could keep up against a driving Castro in the 4th. The problem with this though was obviously it is an illegal defensive move. JF time and again was exposed laterally in Fiba. Again, his best defensive showing was when he slimmed down for the OQT. He was fast enough to switch against the guards. Of course they still scored on him but not to the level they did in the past. However, that was short lived. Tab was kicked out. JF was allowed to gain weight again in the PBA and never gained the added mobility in the OQT in the subsequent Fiba tourneys.

GSM's solid performance against BAD was a good sign of a change of direction in the PBA. A slim forward like Malonzo was allowed to flourish. Let's see if that continues in this season.

I agree with this.

Whenever a player or a team is at a disadvantage, whether it be talent, size or speed the way to have a chance at winning is by making the game ugly (very physical). You throw in dirty plays once in a while so it becomes a "no fly zone" (no airborne stuff) and no really fast running.

Enhanced by how officiating is done, it has become our brand of basketball. It has been a way of making a lot of our undersized and unathletic players competitive as long they are palaban.

Officiating/rules is that powerful. It determines the play-style of the league.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Jawo was tough and dirty. While playing for the national team against Korea, he was guarding a knockdown shooter (I forgot who). This was a long time ago so players don't have textbook shooting mechanics, the Korean would put his feet together whenever he goes for a jumpshot (similar to Guadana of LPU). Jawo being Jawo caught on to this and employed the "foot on the landing spot" move to great effect. He not only put his feet on the landing spot but his knee was up to the groin of the shooter. Then you have the usual spitting, elbows and bodychecks (he was big for his time hence the nickname The Barreling Big J).

That being said, it was kind of the norm back then just like how the ncaa is right now.

Regarding Jolas...yes he learned early on that to prolong his career, he needed to play ground-based. One of his early nicknames was the "Helicopter" because he was a high flyer with good hangtime. In the pba, he became a midrange shooter and was always controlled. That means he most likely had a close-call with a serious injury that made him cautious. On a side note, one of the worst falls of Samboy was because of Jolas who bumped him from behind when he was airborne.

I think "dirty" players were common in Philippine basketball during the 70's to 80's era which was really the era of Jawo. The "dirt" of the game started to mellow down in the 90's. I think most of the PBA stars & superstars of the 90's were "clean" players. Of course there were those rough, physical & tenacious players during the 90's & even up to now, but I think di na ganoon kadumi yung laro. But I think kunti nalang talaga ngayon yung mga players na talagang nananakit ng kapwa players on purpose. Maybe si Buea Belga nalang yung ganoon ngayon.

 

[BJ_Reloaded2]

I'm 25, and I've followed the PBA for 10 years. Heck, I'm a Ginebra fan. Nawalan lang ng gana because of the erratic support for the NT, but I still follow the league. I just want the league to improve its level of play as a whole, adapt to international level, and the level of its clubs. Also, better support for the national team.

In high school, I didn't see that many PBA fans among my schoolmates. There's still a number, but not that many. That got less when I got to UP. I don't know if many from my generation really monitor the PBA.

They should really innovate something on the next Opening rights because people nowadays are longing for new things.

 

[Rds2]

I think "dirty" players were common in Philippine basketball during the 70's to 80's era which was really the era of Jawo. The "dirt" of the game started to mellow down in the 90's. I think most of the PBA stars & superstars of the 90's were "clean" players. Of course there were those rough, physical & tenacious players during the 90's & even up to now, but I think di na ganoon kadumi yung laro. But I think kunti nalang talaga ngayon yung mga players na talagang nananakit ng kapwa players on purpose. Maybe si Buea Belga nalang yung ganoon ngayon.

I don't think the game was overly dirty or physical in the 70s and and 80s in general. Just looking at the stats then, the score was high. I assume the pace was fast. Then you look at the body types of the bigs in the 70s, Ramon Fernandez, Guidaben, Cezar. Those guys are lean and lanky. I don't think Ramon Fernandez would be the all time statistical leader he is if the games he played were really physical. I submit that the physicality then was case to case. I dont know when the sahod started but it seems to me Distrito was infamous for it, having heard all the stories and knowing he was banned after doing it to Cariaso.

I think the Fiba illegal physicality is still there when you hear the HS Filfors say that the game here is called different. Or when you hear Goorjan complain that CS was getting away with a level of physicality not allowed in the other leagues he coached.

 

[Metta2]

I don't think the game was overly dirty or physical in the 70s and and 80s in general. Just looking at the stats then, the score was high. I assume the pace was fast. Then you look at the body types of the bigs in the 70s, Ramon Fernandez, Guidaben, Cezar. Those guys are lean and lanky. I don't think Ramon Fernandez would be the all time statistical leader he is if the games he played were really physical. I submit that the physicality then was case to case. I dont know when the sahod started but it seems to me Distrito was infamous for it, having heard all the stories and knowing he was banned after doing it to Cariaso.

I think the Fiba illegal physicality is still there when you hear the HS Filfors say that the game here is called different. Or when you hear Goorjan complain that CS was getting away with a level of physicality not allowed in the other leagues he coached.

Yes probably you're right that it was more dirty than physical. And players then hardly worked out. Someone jogging every morning is already considered as having an excellent work ethic. Players were like semi-pros when it came to training. So I guess they were physical in their own way, given that everyone else is not in great shape.

Good coaching was also hard to come by during that era. So many players can only go one way/finish with one hand and yet defenders won't take advantage, same with players who can't shoot. Take note that this is all before the internet, so unless someone physically travels to another country and studies (or someone travels to us like Ron Jacobs), there was no way to learn advanced techniques.

 

[CoJ2]

speaking of physicality, my dad and grand dad use to tell stories regarding the old micaa and how dirty and physical players were, especially tembong melencio. Heck the saldanas (marty and terry) were also notorious during the 80s

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I think there is some distinction between physicality & playing "dirty" basketball. When we talk of physicality I think it basically means banggaan, balyahan, tulakan. When we talk of playing a dirty game, it means "tirahan" or intentionally hurting a player - sahod or undercut(which is very dangerous), elbowing, foot tripping, hard foul, punching, etc.

Players like Mark Pingris, Bong Hawkins, Alvin Teng were physical, but they were not known to play dirty basketball. Players like Rudy Distrito, Jawo, Ricky Relosa are known as dirty players.

 

[JAMSKIE2]

Post deleted

 

[Metta2]

I think there is some distinction between physicality & playing "dirty" basketball. When we talk of physicality I think it basically means banggaan, balyahan, tulakan. When we talk of playing a dirty game, it means "tirahan" or intentionally hurting a player - sahod or undercut(which is very dangerous), elbowing, foot tripping, hard foul, punching, etc.

Players like Mark Pingris, Bong Hawkins, Alvin Teng were physical, but they were not known to play dirty basketball. Players like Rudy Distrito, Jawo, Ricky Relosa are known as dirty players.

Of course there is a distinction, physical and dirty are separate things. True form of physicality is about strength (which needs working out in the gym). It is exhibited in boxing out, post defense, control through contact, etc. While playing dirty is again the lazy way out. You don't need to work out to be able to undercut or trip someone.

The strongest (physically) players are in the nba. When playoffs heat up and teams get closer to a championship, the games become really physical. But they don't play dirty (with very few exceptions of course).

Officiating/rules has a lot to do with it. The nba leadership intentionally veered away from the slugfest of the 80s early 90s. It was a business decision as they thought that giving the offense the advantage would make the product better. They enabled the speed, athleticism and skill of the players to shine.

Make no mistake about it, a lot of our local players can now dunk. But they are all hesitant because it's dangerous to be airborne like that. Remember that incident with Ricci Rivero where a team was going to intentionally injure him if he tried to dunk on them. Ja Morant will not last a month in the Philippines, because we would rather give the advantage to a Dillon Brooks type of player than someone like Morant.

 

[Rodbi2]

Of course there is a distinction, physical and dirty are separate things. True form of physicality is about strength (which needs working out in the gym). It is exhibited in boxing out, post defense, control through contact, etc. While playing dirty is again the lazy way out. You don't need to work out to be able to undercut or trip someone.

The strongest (physically) players are in the nba. When playoffs heat up and teams get closer to a championship, the games become really physical. But they don't play dirty (with very few exceptions of course).

Officiating/rules has a lot to do with it. The nba leadership intentionally veered away from the slugfest of the 80s early 90s. It was a business decision as they thought that giving the offense the advantage would make the product better. They enabled the speed, athleticism and skill of the players to shine.

Make no mistake about it, a lot of our local players can now dunk. But they are all hesitant because it's dangerous to be airborne like that. Remember that incident with Ricci Rivero where a team was going to intentionally injure him if he tried to dunk on them. Ja Morant will not last a month in the Philippines, because we would rather give the advantage to a Dillon Brooks type of player than someone like Morant.

Somewhat true, especially during the old days. Pinoy bball fans tend to relate more with athletes that are "more grounded" or play below the rim, hence the affinity for highly physical/borderline dirty players. I'm not sure these days though as we now have guys like Scottie that Pinoy fans can relate to, thanks to the BGSM fandom, obviously.

 

[IPC2]

TNT just terminated Mikey's contract: https://twitter.com/HomerSayson/status/1722597864306581970?t=jYnrW_bf2vsEuc54R9IEYw&s=19

They need to acquire talent.